Episode 484: Why to Leave Evangelicalism & How to Stay with Dan Stringer
Release Date: 11/24/2021
732: Mailbag! Prenups, "Mere Christianity," and Did Jesus Help People Get Drunk?
The Holy Post
The age of generic, non-denominational Christianity may be coming to an end. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss why Christians are increasingly drawn to narrower theological identities, and whether the internet is turning legitimate doctrinal differences into purity tests and church fights. Then, the crew opens the mailbag to answer whether prenuptial agreements are compatible with Christian marriage and if praying in public is an authentic expression of faith or an uncomfortable performance. They also consider what Christians should read to better understand the end times and why Jesus supplied...
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731: Why You Should Talk to Strangers with Nicholas Epley
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“Big Eva” may be fading, but a new generation of online Christian influencers is taking its place. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the rise of “Gig Eva,” how digital platforms are reshaping Christian authority, and why accountability to real churches and communities still matters. Then, the number of words people speak each day is dropping as more of everyday life moves online. The crew considers what we lose when convenience replaces even the smallest human interactions. Then, Skye talks with behavioral scientist Nicholas Epley about why conversations with strangers usually go better...
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730: The Idolatry of Church Growth with Andrew Root
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Why was there almost no emphasis on “church growth” before the 1970s, and how does the fixation on it for the last 40 years correspond with the American economy? Skye talks with Andrew Root about his new book, “Baal and the Gods of More,” about the link between the modern church growth movement and ancient pagan fertility gods. A new report by Ryan Burge says that for decades those who left the church were turned off by partisan politics and the religious right, but that trend might be changing. Also this week, Brazil blames its poor performance in the World Cup on evangelicals,...
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729: Church Trauma & the Apostle Paul with Scot McKnight
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Some of the Apostle Paul’s letters in the Bible can be defensive, sarcastic, and even mean. New Testament scholar Scot McKnight says his nasty tone may stem from deep pain. But Paul’s trauma wasn’t caused by the persecution of nonbelievers but by fellow Christians. He offers Skye an illuminating look into what the apostle can teach us about church trauma today. Mike Erre joins the podcast crew to discuss the declining support for Israel among American Christians, the weird work of VR missionaries, a theory about aliveness that challenges introverts, and a robot that responds when nature...
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728: The Political Divide over Matthew 25 plus Tish Harrison Warren
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Two members of Congress, one Republican and one Democrat, had a meeting recently where they fundamentally disagreed about the meaning of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. Their disagreement has now spilled into the media. Why has this chapter of the Bible become the new dividing line between Christians in the public square? Kaityn interviews Tish Harrison Warren about her new book about Christian resilience and what disillusioned believers can learn from the desert mothers and fathers. And fifty years ago, the media declared 1976 the “Year of the Evangelicals.” The Holy Post crew...
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727: Rethinking the Sexual Revolution & America Turns 250 with Robert Tracy McKenzie
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The United States is turning 250 this week, but the country is divided about the anniversary. Should the country celebrate or lament? Historian Robert Tracy McKenzie joins Skye to talk about the ongoing fight over how to tell America’s story, why we reject nuance, and what he saw at the Rededicate 250 event in Washington, D.C. that made him concerned. Kaitlyn offers her take on a New York Times interview with Louise Perry about rethinking the sexual revolution. Perry argues, as a non-believer, for the recovery of sexual ethics that seem very Christian. What does that say about our...
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726: Reimagining Biblical Politics with Michael Rhodes
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Over the last decade, white evangelicals in the U.S. have lost their moral credibility. In response, Peter Wehner says the church should embrace a form of “Christian humanism.” The Holy Post crew discusses his article, what he gets right, and why that label may be a barrier for some. Kaitlyn interviews biblical scholar Michael Rhodes about his book,“Reimagining Biblical Politics: What Scripture Says About Public Life and Why It Matters.” Rather than looking to specific verses to define our political positions, Rhodes says we must allow all of Scripture to shape our imaginations and...
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725: The Cage Match for America’s Story plus Nijay Gupta
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Last year, the President celebrated his birthday with a military parade. This year, he hosted a UFC cage match on the South Lawn of the White House. It’s easy to compare it to the gladiator games honoring the Roman emperor, but Phil asks whether it’s a sign that America would rather emulate pre-Christian Roman values than biblical ones. Americans can no longer agree on how to teach American history, so we’re not teaching it much at all. Is it possible to recover a shared national story? Nijay Gupta is back to discuss his latest book, “Paul for the World,” and why the Apostle would...
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724: The Problem with Pagan Masculinity with Zach Wagner
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While secular journalists, scholars, and even the Pope are wrestling with big questions about Artificial Intelligence, the war in the Middle East, and what it means to be truly human, the Southern Baptists have decided the most urgent problem in 2026 is banning women from preaching. Phil asks why evangelicals are still fixated on issues from 50 years ago, while other Christian traditions are leading the culture in tackling modern questions. Zachary Wagner, author of “Men of Virtue,” joins Skye and Kaitlyn for a roundup of masculine news. Wagner says the excesses of some expressions of...
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723: Pope Leo, A.I., & the Intimacy Economy plus a Guided Tour of HP+
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The Pope’s first encyclical about the importance of human dignity and the threat posed by A.I. is causing a stir. Some secular journalists are celebrating Leo’s moral clarity, while Trump administration officials are saying the Pope should stay in his lane. Historian Yuval Noah Harari has his own warning about A.I. and explains how we are moving from an “attention economy” into an “intimacy economy.” With the launch of Holy Post Media on Substack, Kaitlyn and Skye take you behind the paywall to sample everything offered by Holy Post Plus, including a daily devotional for people who...
info_outlineIn case you haven’t noticed, the evangelical movement in America is a mess. Some say we should let it all burn down. Others fiercely defend the historic and theological richness of the tradition. Dan Stringer says there’s a third option that is honest about evangelicalism’s failures, while also valuing its strengths. Kaitlyn interviews Stringer about his new book “Struggling with Evangelicalism: Why I Want to Leave and What It Takes to Stay.”
Also this week, former Trump national security advisor Michael Flynn says the U.S. should only allow one religion. Skye explains why the Pilgrims did not come to America for religious freedom, and Christian explores healthy and toxic patriotism. Then, what should we conclude from the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict? Plus, orcas are attacking yachts and Phil celebrates World Toilet Day.
Thanks to the Grow Center for sponsoring this episode. More information about The Ray Bakke Certificate of Biblical and Entrepreneurial Thinking is available here: https://www.thegrowcenter.com
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
04:07 - World Toilet Day12:28 Animal News: Orcas attacking yachts
https://www.yachtingworld.com/cruising/orca-attacks-rudder-losses-and-damage-as-incidents-escalate-133968
18:43 - Michael Flynn says U.S. should mandate one religion
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/columnists/2021/11/20/michael-flynn-john-hagee-ed-stetzer-one-religion/8649034002/?gnt-cfr=1
42:45 - Kyle Rittenhouse verdict
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/11/kyle-rittenhouse-right-self-defense-role-model/620715/https://robertpjones.substack.com/p/free-as-f-kyle-rittenhouse-whiteness
Interview w/ Dan Stringer “Struggling with Evangelicalism: Why I Want to Leave and What It Takes to Stay” - https://amzn.to/3FIPkyc
54:43 - Interview Start & Guest Background
59:55 - Shifting perspective on evangelicalism
01:04:13 - Importance of remembering our history/tradition
01:12:46 - Communal repentance
https://urbana.org/message/litany
01:16:46 - Learning from each other
01:22:37 - Is this the moment for renewal?
01:27:06 - What next? Responding after pain
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