Episode 516: A Boomer and a Millennial on the Future of the Church with Nancy Beach & Samantha Beach Kiley
Release Date: 07/06/2022
729: Church Trauma & the Apostle Paul with Scot McKnight
The Holy Post
Some of the Apostle Paul’s letters in the Bible can be defensive, sarcastic, and even mean. New Testament scholar Scot McKnight says his nasty tone may stem from deep pain. But Paul’s trauma wasn’t caused by the persecution of nonbelievers but by fellow Christians. He offers Skye an illuminating look into what the apostle can teach us about church trauma today. Mike Erre joins the podcast crew to discuss the declining support for Israel among American Christians, the weird work of VR missionaries, a theory about aliveness that challenges introverts, and a robot that responds when nature...
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728: The Political Divide over Matthew 25 plus Tish Harrison Warren
The Holy Post
Two members of Congress, one Republican and one Democrat, had a meeting recently where they fundamentally disagreed about the meaning of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. Their disagreement has now spilled into the media. Why has this chapter of the Bible become the new dividing line between Christians in the public square? Kaityn interviews Tish Harrison Warren about her new book about Christian resilience and what disillusioned believers can learn from the desert mothers and fathers. And fifty years ago, the media declared 1976 the “Year of the Evangelicals.” The Holy Post crew...
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727: Rethinking the Sexual Revolution & America Turns 250 with Robert Tracy McKenzie
The Holy Post
The United States is turning 250 this week, but the country is divided about the anniversary. Should the country celebrate or lament? Historian Robert Tracy McKenzie joins Skye to talk about the ongoing fight over how to tell America’s story, why we reject nuance, and what he saw at the Rededicate 250 event in Washington, D.C. that made him concerned. Kaitlyn offers her take on a New York Times interview with Louise Perry about rethinking the sexual revolution. Perry argues, as a non-believer, for the recovery of sexual ethics that seem very Christian. What does that say about our...
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726: Reimagining Biblical Politics with Michael Rhodes
The Holy Post
Over the last decade, white evangelicals in the U.S. have lost their moral credibility. In response, Peter Wehner says the church should embrace a form of “Christian humanism.” The Holy Post crew discusses his article, what he gets right, and why that label may be a barrier for some. Kaitlyn interviews biblical scholar Michael Rhodes about his book,“Reimagining Biblical Politics: What Scripture Says About Public Life and Why It Matters.” Rather than looking to specific verses to define our political positions, Rhodes says we must allow all of Scripture to shape our imaginations and...
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725: The Cage Match for America’s Story plus Nijay Gupta
The Holy Post
Last year, the President celebrated his birthday with a military parade. This year, he hosted a UFC cage match on the South Lawn of the White House. It’s easy to compare it to the gladiator games honoring the Roman emperor, but Phil asks whether it’s a sign that America would rather emulate pre-Christian Roman values than biblical ones. Americans can no longer agree on how to teach American history, so we’re not teaching it much at all. Is it possible to recover a shared national story? Nijay Gupta is back to discuss his latest book, “Paul for the World,” and why the Apostle would...
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724: The Problem with Pagan Masculinity with Zach Wagner
The Holy Post
While secular journalists, scholars, and even the Pope are wrestling with big questions about Artificial Intelligence, the war in the Middle East, and what it means to be truly human, the Southern Baptists have decided the most urgent problem in 2026 is banning women from preaching. Phil asks why evangelicals are still fixated on issues from 50 years ago, while other Christian traditions are leading the culture in tackling modern questions. Zachary Wagner, author of “Men of Virtue,” joins Skye and Kaitlyn for a roundup of masculine news. Wagner says the excesses of some expressions of...
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723: Pope Leo, A.I., & the Intimacy Economy plus a Guided Tour of HP+
The Holy Post
The Pope’s first encyclical about the importance of human dignity and the threat posed by A.I. is causing a stir. Some secular journalists are celebrating Leo’s moral clarity, while Trump administration officials are saying the Pope should stay in his lane. Historian Yuval Noah Harari has his own warning about A.I. and explains how we are moving from an “attention economy” into an “intimacy economy.” With the launch of Holy Post Media on Substack, Kaitlyn and Skye take you behind the paywall to sample everything offered by Holy Post Plus, including a daily devotional for people who...
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722: Colbert & the Problem of Public Faith plus Karen Swallow Prior
The Holy Post
Last week, Stephen Colbert ended his tenure as the host of The Late Show on CBS. Along with witty political commentary and comedy, Colbert was also open about his Catholicism at a time when many were growing skeptical of faith. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss Colbert, the criticism public Christians receive, and how to discern which examples of public faith to emulate. It’s graduation season, and Karen Swallow Prior is back to discuss her new book, “You Have a Calling.” She says our culture has narrowed our understanding of calling to paid work, but finding our calling is not a matter of...
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721: Easy Optimism vs Durable Hope with Sharon McMahon
The Holy Post
MAGA politicians, pastors, and influencers gathered on the National Mall this weekend to rededicate America to God. Unlike biblical ceremonies of rededication, however, this one included no repentance or lament. Elon Musk is upset that a black woman was cast as Helen of Troy in Christopher Nolan’s upcoming film “The Odyssey.” Sharon McMahon is back to explain how political backlash and violent threats canceled her commencement speech at Utah Valley University, and why the message she planned to deliver is more relevant than ever. Also this week—religious skeptics used to ask, “Why do...
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720: The Casino-fication of the Church and Mark DeYmaz
The Holy Post
Online gambling is changing the way we watch sports. Rather than cheering for a team together, more people now focus on their individual prop bets. Russell Moore says the same thing is happening in the church as individual interests and personal goals are overshadowing our collective calling as Christ’s people. Mark DeYmaz talks with Skye about how the prayer of St. Francis has helped his church navigate racial, economic, and political divisions. Christian colleges say a provision in the Republicans’ Big Beautiful Bill is an “existential threat to the future of religious higher education...
info_outlineAlthough the Religious Right is on a winning streak at the Supreme Court, data shows it’s losing in the court of public opinion. Gallop reports more Americans than ever no longer believe in God, and only a minority of Americans share the political and cultural beliefs of conservative evangelicals. The Holy Post crew responds to a Jesuit priest’s article wondering if overturning Roe was worth the costs, and congresswoman Lauren Boebert says the church should be running the government. But which church does she have in mind? Then Skye talks to mother and daughter, Nancy Beach and Samantha Beach Kiley, about their book “Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church.” Nancy pioneered the seeker-driven megachurch movement at Willow Creek, but also experienced its toxicity and collapse. Her daughter, Samantha, is now a pastor seeking to apply the lessons—both positive and negative—from her megachurch upbringing to a new generation. Plus, the New York Supreme Court makes a jumbo ruling.
Patreon Bonus: Christian Asks... Angry mobs and the end times - https://www.patreon.com/posts/68708383/
News Segment
0:00 - Intro
2:21 - Christian’s travelogue and other updates
5:45 - Happy the Elephant
14:03 - More SCOTUS rulings
23:27 - Christian Right losing in public opinion
30:38 - Costs of overturning Roe
46:07 - Americans’ belief in God is dropping
Sponsor
52:19 - Faithful Counseling
faithfulcounseling.com/holypost
Interview with Nancy Beach and Samantha Beach Kiley
“Next Sunday: An Honest Dialogue About the Future of the Church” - https://amzn.to/3nHnA68
Nancy Beach - http://www.nancylbeach.com/
Samantha Beach Kiley - www.samanthabeach.work
56:04 - Relevance and trust
1:03:24 - Beyond content delivery
1:08:02 - Experiencing other traditions
1:10:59 - Blind spots and overcorrecting
1:18:00 - Church leadership culture
1:27:42 - Credits
Articles referenced in news segment:
“Happy the elephant is not a person, New York’s highest court rules” - https://www.nationalgeographic.com/animals/article/happy-the-elephant-is-not-a-person-new-yorks-highest-court-rules
“The Christian Right is winning in court while losing in public opinion” (NPR) - https://www.npr.org/2022/07/01/1109141110/the-christian-right-is-winning-cultural-battles-while-public-opinion-disagrees
“What has the demise of Roe v. Wade cost the Catholic Church?” by Thomas Reese (Religion News Service) - https://www.ncronline.org/news/opinion/what-has-demise-roe-v-wade-cost-catholic-church
“Poll: Americans’ belief in God is dropping” - https://religionnews.com/2022/06/21/poll-americans-belief-in-god-is-dropping/
Resource mentioned in interview:
“The Art of Gathering: How We Meet and Why It Matters” by Priya Parker - https://amzn.to/3akrxui