Defending with Pride: Midsumma panel talk
Shrine of Remembrance
This podcast was recorded during the 2023 Midsumma Festival and explores stories of LGBTQ+ service. Chaired by Midsumma Chief Executive Karen Bryant, listen as current and ex-service members share their experiences in the ADF. Content warning: Parental guidance is recommended: this audio program contains adult themes and concepts and occasional coarse language. Support: If this program raises any issues for you, feel free to call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Qlife on 1800 184 527. Or please scroll down for additional support services. Disclaimer: The opinions expressed in this...
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Backstage Pass: Behind Forces Entertainment
Shrine of Remembrance
Entertainers have performed in war and peacekeeping zones for decades, but what does it take to get them over there? And what happens if things don't go according to plan? In this podcast, Warrant Officer Class 1 Mark Langley shares a peek behind the curtain of a Forces Entertainment concert from recruiting to the curtain call. Listen as he unpacks stories of escorting comedians, musicians and performers to gigs all over the world. Image: Cold Chisel's Ian Moss with WO1 Mark Langley in East Timor. Music: Sylvester Subconscious Cast Of Characters Disclaimer: The opinions expressed...
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Tours De Force Live Part 1: Lehmo, Nick Cody and Ami Williamson
Shrine of Remembrance
Australian entertainers have performed for troops in war zones and peacekeeping operations since the Vietnam War. Their talent and celebrity have lifted spirits and brought a slice of home to service personnel abroad. In this podcast, hear first-hand the trials and tribulations of entertaining on the front line with host Merrick Watts in conversation with Anthony ‘Lehmo’ Lehmann, Nick Cody and Ami Williamson. This podcast was recorded live at the Shrine in November 2022 to mark the opening of Tours De Force: Entertainers on the Front Line. Listen to part two here. Content warning: This...
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Tours De Force Live Part 2: Normie Rowe, Little Pattie, Tom Gleeson and Charlie Pickering
Shrine of Remembrance
Australian entertainers have performed for troops in war zones and peacekeeping operations since the Vietnam War. Their talent and celebrity have lifted spirits and brought a slice of home to service personnel abroad. In this podcast, hear first-hand the trials and tribulations of entertaining on the front line with host Merrick Watts in conversation with Tom Gleeson, Charlie Pickering, Little Pattie and Normie Rowe. This podcast was recorded live at the Shrine in November 2022 to mark the opening of Tours De Force: Entertainers on the Front Line. Listen to part one Content warning:...
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For Kin and Country Yarns: Ron Schultz
Shrine of Remembrance
Corporal Ronald Schultz has been in the Air Force for more than two decades, spanning a variety of roles and serving both in Australia and overseas. He now works in Indigenous recruiting, helping other First Nations people across Australia enter the Defence Force. In this podcast, guest host and acclaimed Gunditjmara actor Tom Molyneux yarns with Ron about his entry into the defence force, the highlights of his service and his hopes for the future of First Peoples in the ADF. Credits: Speaker: Corporal Ronald Schultz Interviewer: Editor: Laura Thomas Music: Title: Emu and Brolga...
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Defending with Pride Voices: Phil
Shrine of Remembrance
Phil Neil, a former Leading Aircraftman with the RAAF, was one of the five members of the Gay Ex-Services Association (GESA) who tried to unsuccessfully lay a wreath at the Shrine of Remembrance on ANZAC Day in 1982. GESA formed after inflammatory and homophobic comments were made in the media about gay service people by then RSL president, Bruce Ruxton. On a cold and rainy 25th of April, 1982, Phil Neil, Mike Jarmyn, Terry Yates and two other gay ex-servicemen walked the steps of the Shrine to try and lay a wreath in the name of their “fallen gay and lesbian brothers and sisters”, who had...
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August in Kabul: Andrew Quilty in conversation with Tracey Curro
Shrine of Remembrance
When the Taliban entered Kabul on the evening of 15 August 2021, Western troops and embassy staff scrambled to flee a country of which its government had lost control. To the world, Kabul in August looked like Saigon in 1975. Andrew Quilty was one of a handful of Western journalists who stayed as the city fell. His book, August in Kabul: America's last days in Afghanistan is a first-hand account of those dramatic final days told through the eyes of Afghans whose lives have been turned upside down. In September 2022, Andrew sat down in front of a live audience at the...
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Defending with Pride Voices: Bridget
Shrine of Remembrance
Bridget Clinch is a change maker. A former captain in the Australian Army, in 2010 she challenged the Australian Defence Force over its ban on transgender service - and won. It was a hard-fought battle that paved the way for other transgender ADF service members to be able transition and to continue serving after her. High profile former Lieutenant Colonel and Group Captain Cate McGregor, was one of them. Born in Sydney in 1979, Bridget Clinch’s military story began in Victoria as an Army cadet in the mid-90s, at the boys’ secondary college, Melbourne High School. She joined the Army in...
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Behind the Beaufort Bomber
Shrine of Remembrance
The Beaufort Bomber was colloquially known as the workhorse of the RAAF during World War Two and played a key role in Australia's defence. In this podcast, convenor of the Beaufort Squadrons Reunion Tony Clark unpacks the story behind the plane. Hear why they were built on home soil, how women played a pivotal part in the construction and what happened when the plane was retired. Voiceover: Keith Tucker and John Lloyd-Fillingham conducted interviews with many of the Beaufort aircrew veterans and former DAP factory workers at the 2014 Beaufort Squadrons Association reunion. The sentiments and...
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Defending with Pride Voices: Carole and Christina
Shrine of Remembrance
The story of defence couple, Carole Popham and Christina Dennis, started over 50 years ago in the Women's Royal Australian Air Force. Both born in the '40s, without knowing it they grew up within 350kms of each other in northern Queensland: Carole in Townsville and Christina in Cairns. Coming of age in 1960s Australia - a time of limited work and education opportunities for women - in 1963 and ’64 respectively, Carole and Christina each jumped at the chance to join up and serve their country. The WRAAF offered the women a chance to travel and see Australia, to meet other people from all...
info_outlineThe story of defence couple, Carole Popham and Christina Dennis, started over 50 years ago in the Women's Royal Australian Air Force.
Both born in the '40s, without knowing it they grew up within 350kms of each other in northern Queensland: Carole in Townsville and Christina in Cairns. Coming of age in 1960s Australia - a time of limited work and education opportunities for women - in 1963 and ’64 respectively, Carole and Christina each jumped at the chance to join up and serve their country.
The WRAAF offered the women a chance to travel and see Australia, to meet other people from all walks of life and the opportunity to work in an interesting and challenging environment that home just couldn’t offer.
After meeting in the service 1964, and developing a romantic relationship at the end of 1967, Carole and Christina’s Air Force careers were cut short by the prevailing conservative morals and military regulations of the day. To avoid persecution from within, in late 1968 Carole and Christina decided to out their relationship to their WRAAF officer and voluntarily discharge from the Air Force.
Excelling in their respective musterings, it was not an easy decision to make and was a huge sacrifice. The ban on open service for LGB members in Australia’s military would endure for another three long decades, finally overturned by the Commonwealth government in 1992.
Carole and Christina have been together for 53 years, living in the same Melbourne suburb for almost as long. Much loved in their local community, their story is inspiring, funny, moving and courageous.
They are unassuming trailblazers for today’s queer ADF community.
Defending with Pride: Voices is a podcast produced for the Shrine of Remembrance to accompany the exhibition Defending with Pride: Stories of LGBTQ+ service.
Content warning:
Parental guidance is recommended: this audio program contains adult themes and concepts.
Support:
If this program raises any issues for you, feel free to call Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Qlife on 1800 184 527. Or scroll down for additional support services.
Disclaimer:
The opinions expressed in this podcast are those of individual contributors and do not necessarily reflect the views of the Shrine of Remembrance.
CREDITS
Speakers:
Christina Dennis (WRAAF)
Carole Popham (WRAAF)
Huge thanks to Christina and Carole for generously sharing their story, insights and perspectives; for their patience during the pandemic and for their hospitality.
Interviewer/Producer/Sound:
Archival audio:
‘New Careers: Women of the RAAF’ 1958, (excerpts), courtesy of Cinesound Movietone Productions and the National Film and Sound Archive. Used with kind permission.
Music:
Emu and Brolga, commissioned by the Royal Australian Air Force Band. An original composition by Gamilaraay Yuwaalaraay man James Henry, performed by the Air Force Band Wind Quintet.
Ensemble:
Flight Sergeant Adam Schlemitz - Bassoon
Corporal Laila Engle - Flute
Corporal Robert Scott - Clarinet
Leading Aircraftman Salvador Blasco Celda - Oboe
Aircraftman Aidan Gabriels - French horn
Original ‘Kissed’ music:
Philip Brophy
Audio mastering:
Kris Keogh
Special thanks:
Professor Noah Riseman; Glenn Eley at Cinesound Movietone Productions; Siobhan Dee at NFSA and Jessica Ferrari at Memento Media.
Flight Sergeant Dr. Ralph Whiteoak, RAAF Band, composer James Henry (Gamilaraay Yuwaalaraay) and the Royal Australian Air Force Wind Quintet.
Thank you to the Shrine team: Sue Burgess, Laura Thomas and Kate Spinks, curator of the Defending with Pride exhibition.
Support:
If this podcast raises any issues for you, support is available from the following services:
- QLife Australia’s first nationally-oriented counselling and referral service for LGBTI people. Phone: 1800 184 527
- Defence Gay and Lesbian Information Service Defence Gay and Lesbian Information Service provides policy and community information to gay, lesbian and bisexual, transgender, intersex and non-binary serving and ex-serving members of Defence and their families.
- Discharged LGBTI Veterans' Association (DVLA) A support and advocacy association for Australian Defence Force personnel, their family and their friends who were adversely impacted by Defence's historic anti-LGBTI policies. Phone 0400 124 213.
- Thorne Harbour HealthProvides professional, affordable counselling for members of LGBTIQ+ communities and individuals or couples who are affected by or at risk of HIV.
- Open Arms Free and confidential, 24/7 national counselling service for Australian veterans and their families, provided through the Department of Veterans’ Affairs (DVA). Phone: 1800 011 046
- Lifeline Suicide and crisis support. Phone: 13 11 14
Watch:
Women’s Air Force History documentary series by Jessica Ferrari
Read:
Serving in Silence: Australian LBGT Servicemen and women by Noah Riseman, Shirlene Robnson & Graham Willett published by New South.
Visit:
Defending with Pride: Stories of LGBTQ+ service exhibition at the Shrine of Remembrance, open from August 2022 until August 2023.
Episode duration:
57:15