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558: Saddleback vs the SBC & Misusing the Marriage Metaphor with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler

The Holy Post

Release Date: 03/29/2023

567: Christian Nationalism Roundup & the Doctrine of Hell show art 567: Christian Nationalism Roundup & the Doctrine of Hell

The Holy Post

Phil’s file of Christian Nationalism stories has gotten full, so we’re covering a number of them this week. We explore the beliefs of early Christian Nationalists from the 1920s, how modern Christian Nationalism can’t shake its racist roots, and why it’s gaining popularity with some followers of Reformed theology. Skye explains what Christian Nationalism shares in common with the Prosperity Gospel, and Kaitlyn dismantles Christian Nationalists who say their views are rooted in God’s design in nature. Then, we share one of our most popular Holy Post bonus features with everyone where...

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 Influential pastor, author, and apologist, Tim Keller, passed away last week. We reflect on Keller’s ministry and wonder who is filling the shoes of the Christian giants we’ve lost. A new book about poverty says that the U.S. spends more on welfare than any other country except France, but the majority goes to help the wealthy and middle-class rather than the poor. Why aren’t we doing more to end poverty, and is our view of the Bible to blame? Then, it’s been 25 years since Rich Mullins died. Skye talks to Mullins’ friend James Bryan Smith about the songwriter’s inspiring...

565: The Vegan Bible, Loveless Christianity, & Spiritual Narcissism with Rainn Wilson show art 565: The Vegan Bible, Loveless Christianity, & Spiritual Narcissism with Rainn Wilson

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Ethicist, David Gushee, says we are seeing the emergence of a new kind of loveless Christianity. But those who practice it say their anger, culture warring, and pursuit of power are actually how they’re loving their neighbors. Then, Skye talks to actor Rainn Wilson, best known as Dwight Schrute from “The Office,” about religious pluralism, spiritual narcissism, why Hollywood misrepresents Christians, and how he became a follower of the Baha’i faith. Wilson’s new book is “Soul Boom: Why We Need a Spiritual Revolution.” Also this week—A.I. has rewritten Genesis to be...

564: How Rapture Theology Shaped America (Part 2) show art 564: How Rapture Theology Shaped America (Part 2)

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How did a theological system that rejected Christian participation in politics eventually give birth to the Religious Right? Phil talks to historian Daniel Hummel about the spread of rapture theology in the 20th century, why it spawned so many conspiracies, the legacy of the Left Behind books, and why rapture theology remains so popular despite being rejected by nearly every evangelical seminary. Also this week, why did controversial author, Joshua Butler, resign from his church? The embrace of Tucker Carlson and Donald Trump by the Religious Right is proof that the movement is now entirely...

563: How Rapture Theology Shaped America (Part 1) show art 563: How Rapture Theology Shaped America (Part 1)

The Holy Post

Many Christians in America simply assume that Jesus could return at any moment, that believers will be raptured in the twinkling of an eye, that the state of Israel has a special role in the End Times, and that the church should just save souls and stay out of politics. In Part 1 of an interview about this new book, historian Daniel G. Hummel explains to Phil how this rapture theology isn’t rooted in church history, but was invented by a British layman less than 200 years ago. And why it was embraced by American pastors during the Civil War who wanted to avoid talking about slavery, race,...

French Friday: How to Thrive in a Post-Christian Culture show art French Friday: How to Thrive in a Post-Christian Culture

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From Harvard Law School to The New York Times, David French has repeatedly found himself in communities where secular progressivism is the majority view, and where his Christian beliefs face suspicion, ridicule, or even hostility. Skye Jethani asks French how he's learned to not just survive in these post-Christian enclaves, but actually thrive. What mistakes did he make? How did he successfully build relationships across political and philosophical barriers? And how did closer connections with those he disagreed with strengthen his faith? French also explains why Christians who sow fear and...

562: Fox Fires Tucker, Toxic Gun Culture, & Rethinking Revivals with Derwin Gray show art 562: Fox Fires Tucker, Toxic Gun Culture, & Rethinking Revivals with Derwin Gray

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561: How the Evangelical Movement Failed a Generation with Jon Ward show art 561: How the Evangelical Movement Failed a Generation with Jon Ward

The Holy Post

From the Jesus Movement in the 1970s, through the Religious Right in the 1980s, the rise of New Calvinism in the 1990s, and the MAGA movement today, as a Christian kid in the suburbs and then a political journalist in Washington, Jon Ward has had a front seat to the most significant characters and events in American evangelicalism. He talks with Skye about his new autobiography, “Testimony,” and why he is still committed to Christian faith despite the failure of the movement that raised him. Also this week, early data shows a reduction in the number of abortions since the Supreme Court...

560: The Rise of Retaliation Politics & How to Suffer Well with Alan Noble show art 560: The Rise of Retaliation Politics & How to Suffer Well with Alan Noble

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Description: Rick Warren, the founder and former pastor of Saddleback Church, is speaking out after his church was ejected from the Southern Baptist Convention for ordaining women. Phil explains how the SBC went from being accepting of female leaders, to opposing them, to kicking out churches that depart even slightly on the issue. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Dr. Beth Felker Jones and Dr. Amy Peeler about Joshua Butler’s controversial article comparing the gospel to marital sex. They explain what his article gets fundamentally wrong about the New Testament’s marriage metaphor. Plus, a new study finds evangelicals are the least liked religious group in America, except by evangelicals who think they’re great. And someone is anonymously leaving their mark on Broadway.

Patreon Bonus: Bonus Interview with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler


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0:00 -  Intro

2:45 - Theme Song

3:55 - News of the Butt

9:03 - Evangelicals loved by Evangelicals, but not anyone else

14:14 - SBC history around women ordination 

26:49 - Denny Burke’s response to Rick Warren

46:14 - Guest Interview - Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler

53:47 - Can marriage and sex point us to God?

59:29 - Interpreting the marriage metaphor in Ephesians 5

1::03:11 - Flaws of the giver, receiver framework

1:18:59 - End Credits

Links mentioned in news segment:


Fan poops in aisle near Hillary and Chelsea Clinton at Broadway show



Evangelicals Are the Most Beloved US Faith Group Among Evangelicals



 The Southern Baptist Convention’s coming ‘Great Ejection’ https://religionnews.com/2023/03/22/the-southern-baptist-conventions-coming-great-ejection/

Rick Warren Has Done the SBC a Great Service

Other resources:


The Bible’s Marriage Metaphor Doesn’t Belong In the Bedroom by Amy Peeler



Protestant bodies, Protestant bedrooms, & our furious need for a theology thereof by Beth Felker Jones



Faithful: A Theology of Sex by Beth Felker Jones


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