558: Saddleback vs the SBC & Misusing the Marriage Metaphor with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
Release Date: 03/29/2023
724: The Problem with Pagan Masculinity with Zach Wagner
The Holy Post
While secular journalists, scholars, and even the Pope are wrestling with big questions about Artificial Intelligence, the war in the Middle East, and what it means to be truly human, the Southern Baptists have decided the most urgent problem in 2026 is banning women from preaching. Phil asks why evangelicals are still fixated on issues from 50 years ago, while other Christian traditions are leading the culture in tackling modern questions. Zachary Wagner, author of “Men of Virtue,” joins Skye and Kaitlyn for a roundup of masculine news. Wagner says the excesses of some expressions of...
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723: Pope Leo, A.I., & the Intimacy Economy plus a Guided Tour of HP+
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The Pope’s first encyclical about the importance of human dignity and the threat posed by A.I. is causing a stir. Some secular journalists are celebrating Leo’s moral clarity, while Trump administration officials are saying the Pope should stay in his lane. Historian Yuval Noah Harari has his own warning about A.I. and explains how we are moving from an “attention economy” into an “intimacy economy.” With the launch of Holy Post Media on Substack, Kaitlyn and Skye take you behind the paywall to sample everything offered by Holy Post Plus, including a daily devotional for people who...
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722: Colbert & the Problem of Public Faith plus Karen Swallow Prior
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Last week, Stephen Colbert ended his tenure as the host of The Late Show on CBS. Along with witty political commentary and comedy, Colbert was also open about his Catholicism at a time when many were growing skeptical of faith. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss Colbert, the criticism public Christians receive, and how to discern which examples of public faith to emulate. It’s graduation season, and Karen Swallow Prior is back to discuss her new book, “You Have a Calling.” She says our culture has narrowed our understanding of calling to paid work, but finding our calling is not a matter of...
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721: Easy Optimism vs Durable Hope with Sharon McMahon
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MAGA politicians, pastors, and influencers gathered on the National Mall this weekend to rededicate America to God. Unlike biblical ceremonies of rededication, however, this one included no repentance or lament. Elon Musk is upset that a black woman was cast as Helen of Troy in Christopher Nolan’s upcoming film “The Odyssey.” Sharon McMahon is back to explain how political backlash and violent threats canceled her commencement speech at Utah Valley University, and why the message she planned to deliver is more relevant than ever. Also this week—religious skeptics used to ask, “Why do...
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720: The Casino-fication of the Church and Mark DeYmaz
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Online gambling is changing the way we watch sports. Rather than cheering for a team together, more people now focus on their individual prop bets. Russell Moore says the same thing is happening in the church as individual interests and personal goals are overshadowing our collective calling as Christ’s people. Mark DeYmaz talks with Skye about how the prayer of St. Francis has helped his church navigate racial, economic, and political divisions. Christian colleges say a provision in the Republicans’ Big Beautiful Bill is an “existential threat to the future of religious higher education...
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719: King Charles’ Christian Message plus Alan Noble
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King Charles III addressed Congress last week, citing his Christian faith as a foundation for pluralism and peace. President Trump, in contrast, gave a speech welcoming the King that referenced Christianity as a cultural identity requiring exclusion and protection. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn unpack the two very different visions of faith. Alan Noble is back to discuss his new book, “To Live Well,” and why young people are looking for virtues that are grounded in something more than online influencer advice. Also this week: Was the shooter at the White House Correspondents' Dinner a devout...
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718: HOLY POST LIVE from Atlanta with Lecrae
The Holy Post
Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn hosted a live podcast recording in Atlanta on April 22. They were joined by Grammy-winning hip-hop artist Lecrae to discuss his journey through doubt and deconstruction toward a renewed faith in Christ. He shared what helped him through the dark season, and why he felt the need to abandon the “fraud” but not the “faith.” They also discussed the tenets of Just War Theory, innovative Chinese cars, and they responded to audience questions you won’t want to miss. Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this Episode: 0:00 - Show Starts 1:09 - Theme Song...
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717: The Parenting Prosperity Gospel with Kelsey Kramer McGinnis
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Anthropic has sought the help of Christian theologians to make Claude, their A.I. model, more ethical, but they are also meeting with representatives from other religious and philosophical traditions. Should this make us more optimistic about tech companies controlling the future? The Atlantic has a story about the popularity of John Mark Comer even among non-religious young adults. Is his advocacy of contemplative Christian practices the answer to digital secularism our culture has been searching for? Kelsey Kramer McGinnis, co-author of “The Myth of Good Christian Parenting,” talks with...
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716: The President vs. The Pope and Bri Stensrud
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It’s been another week of deranged comments and posts from the President. This time he has targeted Pope Leo by accusing him of being weak on crime and catering to the radical left. Mr. Trump followed up by posting an A.I. image of himself as Jesus. The outrage was swift, including from his own MAGA supporters, but are they actually to blame for his messianic self-image? On Palm Sunday, the Pope said Jesus does not hear the prayers of those who wage war. Most assume he was referring to the Secretary of Defense’s wrathful prayer for U.S. troops in Iran. Defenders of Pete Hegseth’s prayer...
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715: How MAGA Rewired Evangelical Morality with Peter Wehner
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We have a roundup of extravagant Easter celebrations, including helicopter egg drops, holy week drone shows, and skydiving bunnies. But what do these spectacles really achieve, and what do they communicate about the way of Jesus? Bible sales are breaking records. Is Donald Trump the reason? Conservative writer Peter Wehner, who worked for three Republican administrations, is back to explain how MAGA has rewired evangelical morality and what pastors should do about it. Also this week, the contrasting Easter messages of the Pope and the President. Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this...
info_outlineDescription: Rick Warren, the founder and former pastor of Saddleback Church, is speaking out after his church was ejected from the Southern Baptist Convention for ordaining women. Phil explains how the SBC went from being accepting of female leaders, to opposing them, to kicking out churches that depart even slightly on the issue. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Dr. Beth Felker Jones and Dr. Amy Peeler about Joshua Butler’s controversial article comparing the gospel to marital sex. They explain what his article gets fundamentally wrong about the New Testament’s marriage metaphor. Plus, a new study finds evangelicals are the least liked religious group in America, except by evangelicals who think they’re great. And someone is anonymously leaving their mark on Broadway.
Patreon Bonus: Bonus Interview with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671682
Patreon Bonus: Listener Question
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671892
Holy Post merch store - https://www.holypost.com/shop
0:00 - Intro
2:45 - Theme Song
3:55 - News of the Butt
9:03 - Evangelicals loved by Evangelicals, but not anyone else
14:14 - SBC history around women ordination
26:49 - Denny Burke’s response to Rick Warren
46:14 - Guest Interview - Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
53:47 - Can marriage and sex point us to God?
59:29 - Interpreting the marriage metaphor in Ephesians 5
1::03:11 - Flaws of the giver, receiver framework
1:18:59 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Fan poops in aisle near Hillary and Chelsea Clinton at Broadway show
https://pagesix.com/2023/03/20/fan-poops-in-aisle-near-hillary-and-chelsea-clinton-at-show/
Evangelicals Are the Most Beloved US Faith Group Among Evangelicals
The Southern Baptist Convention’s coming ‘Great Ejection’ https://religionnews.com/2023/03/22/the-southern-baptist-conventions-coming-great-ejection/
Rick Warren Has Done the SBC a Great Service
https://www.dennyburk.com/rick-warren-has-done-the-sbc-a-great-service/
Other resources:
The Bible’s Marriage Metaphor Doesn’t Belong In the Bedroom by Amy Peeler
Protestant bodies, Protestant bedrooms, & our furious need for a theology thereof by Beth Felker Jones
https://bethfelkerjones.substack.com/p/protestant-bodies-protestant-bedrooms
Faithful: A Theology of Sex by Beth Felker Jones
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
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