558: Saddleback vs the SBC & Misusing the Marriage Metaphor with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
Release Date: 03/29/2023
SKYEpod - SkyeDive: Certainty & Stupidity
The Holy Post
We're sharing a SKYEpod episode that was previously exclusively for Holy Post Plus subscribers—this one's a "SkyeDive," meaning it's just Skye digging deep into a topic. If you like this episode, consider becoming a Holy Post Plus subcriber to get weekly SKYEpod episodes, merchandise, bonus interviews, and more! Skye talks about how our certainty often conflicts with humility—with disastrous results, like declining churchgoing rates, alien doomsday cults, and dead bellringers. Holy Post Plus: Other resources: Holy Post website: Holy Post Plus: Holy...
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627: Heritage Americans & Palestinian Christians with Munther Isaac
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Following the attempted assassination of Donald Trump, some are saying that God saved his life for a divine purpose. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye discuss the selective use of Christian rhetoric surrounding the former President. Then, multiple speakers at the Republican convention used anti-immigrant language associated with the “heritage Americans” movement. We examine the movement and its link to the isolationist and racist policies of the 1920s. And Skye welcome Rev. Dr. Munther Isaac, the pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Christmas Church in Bethlehem, to talk about the Palestinian...
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626: Political Violence & the Narrow Path with Rich Villodas
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On Saturday, Donald Trump narrowly survived an assassin’s bullet. Will this begin to turn down the dehumanizing and apocalyptic rhetoric in our politics, or will it only add fuel for conspiracy theories and extremists? Rich Villodas is back to talk about his new book on the Sermon on the Mount—“The Narrow Path.” He says obeying the sermon “is not how we achieve salvation; it's how we demonstrate it.” And the fact that so few Christians seem to take Jesus’ commands seriously calls their salvation into question. Also this week, Phil reports from “Med City” and Kaitlyn...
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625: Loving Our Christian Nationalist Neighbors with Caleb Campbell
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It’s one thing to fight against a heresy, but what about the people caught in its grasp? Caleb Campbell’s new book, “Disarming Leviathan,” argues Christian Nationalism is an idolatrous, anti-Christian movement, but that we ought to take a gentle, loving, and missional posture toward our friends and neighbors following it. Also this week, Ronald Reagan often said America was a shining “city upon a hill.” Derwin Gray joins Skye and Kaitlyn to discuss the phrase, its original context in the Sermon on the Mount, and how Puritan colonists used it very differently than modern...
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624: The Debate Debacle & Our Broken Political Parties with Chris Butler & Justin Giboney
The Holy Post
In this special episode, Kaitlyn and Skye are joined by the co-hosts of the Church Politics podcast, Justin Giboney and Chris Butler, to discuss the fallout from last week’s presidential debate. Will President Biden drop out? What does the Supreme Court’s ruling about presidential immunity mean for a possible second Trump term? And why have both political parties nominated candidates who are demonstrably incapable of fulfilling the presidential oath of office? It’s a wide-ranging conversation about the broken state of American politics and where Christians can find hope. 0.00 - Sponsor...
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French Friday: Feckless Politicians & Fearful Churches
The Holy Post
As the Supreme Court releases a slate of new rulings the justices appear to be sending a message: "Congress, do your job!" David French explains to Skye Jethani why congressional leaders are increasingly reluctant to take votes or pass laws, how this is making the presidency dangerously powerful, and why the courts are saying it's unconstitutional and harmful to democracy. Then, David tells why his former denomination canceled him—with some members even calling him a "heretic"—despite his full agreement with all of their doctrine and positions. Why are so many churches being driven by fear...
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623: Posting the 10 Commandments & America’s Secular Future with John Dickson
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Louisiana has passed a law requiring the Ten Commandments be posted in every public school classroom. Supporters say it’s about respecting history, law, and the country’s religious heritage. Critics argue it’s completely unconstitutional. What’s really behind the new law? John Dickson says secularism in Australia is ten years ahead of the U.S., and there are valuable lessons the American church can learn from his country about how to thrive in a post-Christian society. Also this week—after two more megachurch pastor scandals we have to ask what’s wrong with our ministry culture....
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622: How Ideological Purity is Killing Churches with Ryan Burge
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Remember when churches were seeker-sensitive? The goal was to grow by welcoming newcomers, skeptics, and non-believers. But now it seems some evangelical churches and denominations are more worried about ideological purity than outreach. Sociologist, political scientists, and pastor Ryan Burge is back to talk about the self-defeating trend toward subtraction rather than addition in the church. Also this week, the Southern Baptists decide not to ban all women pastors…yet. Megan Basham claims evangelical leaders aren’t selling out to conservative constituents, but to gain the approval of...
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621: The Rise of Christian Extremism with Elizabeth Neumann
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After working for the Department of Homeland Security, and more than twenty years as a counterterrorism expert, Elizabeth Neumann says the greatest threat to the U.S. is no longer international Islamic terrorism but domestic Christian extremists. She discusses her new book, “Kingdom of Rage,” with Skye and how conspiracy theories and violent political ideologies have infiltrated American evangelicalism. Also this week, the Southern Baptists debate which is the greater threat to the faith—the Nicene Creed or female pastors. And new data says drinking and smoking has plummeted among...
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620: Applying the 7 Deadly Sins in a Secular Age with Elizabeth Oldfield
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Lord Acton famously said, “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.” Was he right? Mike Erre is back to discuss the way Christians think about power, and why he believes our pursuit of power over the world is not the way of Jesus. Then, author Elizabeth Oldfield talks with Kaitlyn about her new book, “Fully Alive,” which uses the Seven Deadly Sins as a bridge for introducing secular people to the wisdom of Christianity. Also this week—the verdict in the Trump trail, a very unique fossil museum opens in Arizona, and Phil creates a fun new game for Christians called “Is...
info_outlineDescription: Rick Warren, the founder and former pastor of Saddleback Church, is speaking out after his church was ejected from the Southern Baptist Convention for ordaining women. Phil explains how the SBC went from being accepting of female leaders, to opposing them, to kicking out churches that depart even slightly on the issue. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Dr. Beth Felker Jones and Dr. Amy Peeler about Joshua Butler’s controversial article comparing the gospel to marital sex. They explain what his article gets fundamentally wrong about the New Testament’s marriage metaphor. Plus, a new study finds evangelicals are the least liked religious group in America, except by evangelicals who think they’re great. And someone is anonymously leaving their mark on Broadway.
Patreon Bonus: Bonus Interview with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671682
Patreon Bonus: Listener Question
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671892
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0:00 - Intro
2:45 - Theme Song
3:55 - News of the Butt
9:03 - Evangelicals loved by Evangelicals, but not anyone else
14:14 - SBC history around women ordination
26:49 - Denny Burke’s response to Rick Warren
46:14 - Guest Interview - Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
53:47 - Can marriage and sex point us to God?
59:29 - Interpreting the marriage metaphor in Ephesians 5
1::03:11 - Flaws of the giver, receiver framework
1:18:59 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Fan poops in aisle near Hillary and Chelsea Clinton at Broadway show
https://pagesix.com/2023/03/20/fan-poops-in-aisle-near-hillary-and-chelsea-clinton-at-show/
Evangelicals Are the Most Beloved US Faith Group Among Evangelicals
The Southern Baptist Convention’s coming ‘Great Ejection’ https://religionnews.com/2023/03/22/the-southern-baptist-conventions-coming-great-ejection/
Rick Warren Has Done the SBC a Great Service
https://www.dennyburk.com/rick-warren-has-done-the-sbc-a-great-service/
Other resources:
The Bible’s Marriage Metaphor Doesn’t Belong In the Bedroom by Amy Peeler
Protestant bodies, Protestant bedrooms, & our furious need for a theology thereof by Beth Felker Jones
https://bethfelkerjones.substack.com/p/protestant-bodies-protestant-bedrooms
Faithful: A Theology of Sex by Beth Felker Jones
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