558: Saddleback vs the SBC & Misusing the Marriage Metaphor with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
Release Date: 03/29/2023
732: Mailbag! Prenups, "Mere Christianity," and Did Jesus Help People Get Drunk?
The Holy Post
The age of generic, non-denominational Christianity may be coming to an end. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss why Christians are increasingly drawn to narrower theological identities, and whether the internet is turning legitimate doctrinal differences into purity tests and church fights. Then, the crew opens the mailbag to answer whether prenuptial agreements are compatible with Christian marriage and if praying in public is an authentic expression of faith or an uncomfortable performance. They also consider what Christians should read to better understand the end times and why Jesus supplied...
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731: Why You Should Talk to Strangers with Nicholas Epley
The Holy Post
“Big Eva” may be fading, but a new generation of online Christian influencers is taking its place. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the rise of “Gig Eva,” how digital platforms are reshaping Christian authority, and why accountability to real churches and communities still matters. Then, the number of words people speak each day is dropping as more of everyday life moves online. The crew considers what we lose when convenience replaces even the smallest human interactions. Then, Skye talks with behavioral scientist Nicholas Epley about why conversations with strangers usually go better...
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730: The Idolatry of Church Growth with Andrew Root
The Holy Post
Why was there almost no emphasis on “church growth” before the 1970s, and how does the fixation on it for the last 40 years correspond with the American economy? Skye talks with Andrew Root about his new book, “Baal and the Gods of More,” about the link between the modern church growth movement and ancient pagan fertility gods. A new report by Ryan Burge says that for decades those who left the church were turned off by partisan politics and the religious right, but that trend might be changing. Also this week, Brazil blames its poor performance in the World Cup on evangelicals,...
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729: Church Trauma & the Apostle Paul with Scot McKnight
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Some of the Apostle Paul’s letters in the Bible can be defensive, sarcastic, and even mean. New Testament scholar Scot McKnight says his nasty tone may stem from deep pain. But Paul’s trauma wasn’t caused by the persecution of nonbelievers but by fellow Christians. He offers Skye an illuminating look into what the apostle can teach us about church trauma today. Mike Erre joins the podcast crew to discuss the declining support for Israel among American Christians, the weird work of VR missionaries, a theory about aliveness that challenges introverts, and a robot that responds when nature...
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728: The Political Divide over Matthew 25 plus Tish Harrison Warren
The Holy Post
Two members of Congress, one Republican and one Democrat, had a meeting recently where they fundamentally disagreed about the meaning of the sheep and the goats in Matthew 25. Their disagreement has now spilled into the media. Why has this chapter of the Bible become the new dividing line between Christians in the public square? Kaityn interviews Tish Harrison Warren about her new book about Christian resilience and what disillusioned believers can learn from the desert mothers and fathers. And fifty years ago, the media declared 1976 the “Year of the Evangelicals.” The Holy Post crew...
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727: Rethinking the Sexual Revolution & America Turns 250 with Robert Tracy McKenzie
The Holy Post
The United States is turning 250 this week, but the country is divided about the anniversary. Should the country celebrate or lament? Historian Robert Tracy McKenzie joins Skye to talk about the ongoing fight over how to tell America’s story, why we reject nuance, and what he saw at the Rededicate 250 event in Washington, D.C. that made him concerned. Kaitlyn offers her take on a New York Times interview with Louise Perry about rethinking the sexual revolution. Perry argues, as a non-believer, for the recovery of sexual ethics that seem very Christian. What does that say about our...
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726: Reimagining Biblical Politics with Michael Rhodes
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Over the last decade, white evangelicals in the U.S. have lost their moral credibility. In response, Peter Wehner says the church should embrace a form of “Christian humanism.” The Holy Post crew discusses his article, what he gets right, and why that label may be a barrier for some. Kaitlyn interviews biblical scholar Michael Rhodes about his book,“Reimagining Biblical Politics: What Scripture Says About Public Life and Why It Matters.” Rather than looking to specific verses to define our political positions, Rhodes says we must allow all of Scripture to shape our imaginations and...
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725: The Cage Match for America’s Story plus Nijay Gupta
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Last year, the President celebrated his birthday with a military parade. This year, he hosted a UFC cage match on the South Lawn of the White House. It’s easy to compare it to the gladiator games honoring the Roman emperor, but Phil asks whether it’s a sign that America would rather emulate pre-Christian Roman values than biblical ones. Americans can no longer agree on how to teach American history, so we’re not teaching it much at all. Is it possible to recover a shared national story? Nijay Gupta is back to discuss his latest book, “Paul for the World,” and why the Apostle would...
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724: The Problem with Pagan Masculinity with Zach Wagner
The Holy Post
While secular journalists, scholars, and even the Pope are wrestling with big questions about Artificial Intelligence, the war in the Middle East, and what it means to be truly human, the Southern Baptists have decided the most urgent problem in 2026 is banning women from preaching. Phil asks why evangelicals are still fixated on issues from 50 years ago, while other Christian traditions are leading the culture in tackling modern questions. Zachary Wagner, author of “Men of Virtue,” joins Skye and Kaitlyn for a roundup of masculine news. Wagner says the excesses of some expressions of...
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723: Pope Leo, A.I., & the Intimacy Economy plus a Guided Tour of HP+
The Holy Post
The Pope’s first encyclical about the importance of human dignity and the threat posed by A.I. is causing a stir. Some secular journalists are celebrating Leo’s moral clarity, while Trump administration officials are saying the Pope should stay in his lane. Historian Yuval Noah Harari has his own warning about A.I. and explains how we are moving from an “attention economy” into an “intimacy economy.” With the launch of Holy Post Media on Substack, Kaitlyn and Skye take you behind the paywall to sample everything offered by Holy Post Plus, including a daily devotional for people who...
info_outlineDescription: Rick Warren, the founder and former pastor of Saddleback Church, is speaking out after his church was ejected from the Southern Baptist Convention for ordaining women. Phil explains how the SBC went from being accepting of female leaders, to opposing them, to kicking out churches that depart even slightly on the issue. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Dr. Beth Felker Jones and Dr. Amy Peeler about Joshua Butler’s controversial article comparing the gospel to marital sex. They explain what his article gets fundamentally wrong about the New Testament’s marriage metaphor. Plus, a new study finds evangelicals are the least liked religious group in America, except by evangelicals who think they’re great. And someone is anonymously leaving their mark on Broadway.
Patreon Bonus: Bonus Interview with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671682
Patreon Bonus: Listener Question
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671892
Holy Post merch store - https://www.holypost.com/shop
0:00 - Intro
2:45 - Theme Song
3:55 - News of the Butt
9:03 - Evangelicals loved by Evangelicals, but not anyone else
14:14 - SBC history around women ordination
26:49 - Denny Burke’s response to Rick Warren
46:14 - Guest Interview - Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
53:47 - Can marriage and sex point us to God?
59:29 - Interpreting the marriage metaphor in Ephesians 5
1::03:11 - Flaws of the giver, receiver framework
1:18:59 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Fan poops in aisle near Hillary and Chelsea Clinton at Broadway show
https://pagesix.com/2023/03/20/fan-poops-in-aisle-near-hillary-and-chelsea-clinton-at-show/
Evangelicals Are the Most Beloved US Faith Group Among Evangelicals
The Southern Baptist Convention’s coming ‘Great Ejection’ https://religionnews.com/2023/03/22/the-southern-baptist-conventions-coming-great-ejection/
Rick Warren Has Done the SBC a Great Service
https://www.dennyburk.com/rick-warren-has-done-the-sbc-a-great-service/
Other resources:
The Bible’s Marriage Metaphor Doesn’t Belong In the Bedroom by Amy Peeler
Protestant bodies, Protestant bedrooms, & our furious need for a theology thereof by Beth Felker Jones
https://bethfelkerjones.substack.com/p/protestant-bodies-protestant-bedrooms
Faithful: A Theology of Sex by Beth Felker Jones
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
Holy Post Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/holypost
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