202. Mastering Audience Optimization & DSP Transparency with Jenn Ha and Ed Hackney from Pearl Diver
Release Date: 08/04/2026
207. The AI Middle Layer: The Next Brand Safety Battleground
Programmatic Digest
In this podcast episode, Dr. Cecilia Dones and Iesha White discuss the complex evolution of artificial intelligence within the marketing and advertising industries. They explore the shift of AI becoming a "middle layer" between brands and consumers, highlighting how automated systems can influence purchasing decisions using unverified information. These outstanding ladies distinguish between closed and open AI systems, warning that proprietary models often lack transparency and can lead to brand safety issues like hallucinations or data poisoning. They emphasize that while AI...
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206. A Discussion on The signal brief, AI Search, and Ozone
Programmatic Digest
AI-driven search is changing how people discover information, and challenging the intent-based funnel publishers and advertisers have relied on for years. In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, I sit down with Christian Robinson of Ozone to explore what this shift means for publishers, programmatic traders, and the future of the open web. Christian shares how Ozone helps advertisers reach audiences across trusted, premium publisher environments while reducing duplication and wasted media spend. We discuss why first-party data, authenticated audiences, and journalistically safe...
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205. Conversational Ad Ops, AI agents, and Model Context Protocol (MCP) with Rob Janes
Programmatic Digest
In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, host and guest Rob JAnes, Head of Product at AdButler, discuss the rapidly changing landscape of publisher monetization and programmatic ad operations heading into 2025. Check out the interview on YouTube here: They break down the industry-wide adjustments following Google's unexpected decision not to deprecate third-party cookies and the subsequent pivot to internal identity resolution systems. A major focus of the conversation is the existential crisis content creators face due to declining traffic, driven by generative...
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204. Martech Architecture Explained: The Missing Layer in Ad Tech
Programmatic Digest
🎧 Summary: In this episode of the Programmatic Digest Podcast, Hélène Parker sits down with Sanarr McLaughlin to unpack one of the most overlooked challenges in programmatic advertising and digital marketing: martech structure. From disconnected tools and messy integrations to reporting confusion and operational inefficiencies, Sanarr explains why many agencies, brands, and media teams are struggling under the weight of their own systems. Together, they explore how poor martech architecture impacts campaign execution, data accuracy, internal productivity, and ultimately business growth....
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203. Are We Optimizing for Bots? Unpacking AI, CTR, and Ad Fraud with Dr. Fou
Programmatic Digest
In this episode of the Programmatic Digest, Hélène Parker sits down with Dr. Augustine Fou, founder of Fou Analytics, to unpack the realities of ad fraud, attribution, AI, and programmatic optimization. Dr. Fou challenges some of the metrics and tools our industry has relied on for years, explaining how bots can manipulate signals like CTR and how algorithms can unintentionally optimize toward fraudulent inventory. The conversation also explores the limitations of traditional fraud detection, the importance of independent verification, and how traders can use more granular data, including...
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202. Mastering Audience Optimization & DSP Transparency with Jenn Ha and Ed Hackney from Pearl Diver
Programmatic Digest
In part two of this special episode of the Programmatic Digest podcast, host Hélène Parker welcomes back Ed and introduces Jenny, the Head of Customer Experience at Pearl Diver Building on the previous episode's focus on audience discovery, this conversation dives deeply into audience optimization and the critical role of true partnership in ad tech. Jenny and Ed share insights on the optimal times to introduce new audience segments, highlighting that the best time to test an adjacent audience is actually when current campaigns are already performing well They also discuss their...
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201. Activating High-Intent Audiences with Ed Hackney and Trinity Lawry from Pearl Diver
Programmatic Digest
Most advertisers focus on people who are ready to buy today. But what happens when that audience runs out? In this episode, I chat with Ed Hackney and Trinity Lawry from Pearl Diver about how to find high-intent audiences, why balancing every stage of the marketing funnel matters, and how AI is making audience discovery easier for media buyers. This podcast was made possible thanks to the incredible support from Pearl Diver. In This Episode Why focusing only on conversions can quickly exhaust your audience. How behavioral data helps identify where consumers are in their buying...
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200. Behind 200 Episodes: The Real Work, the Real Joy, and the Real Impact with Manuela Cortes and Hélène Parker
Programmatic Digest
Celebrating 200 Episodes: Community, Representation, and the Future of Programmatic Digest Reaching 200 episodes is more than a milestone. It's a celebration of the incredible community that has supported Programmatic Digest from day one. In this special episode, Hélène Parker and Manuela Cortez reflect on the journey that brought them here, the lessons they've learned along the way, and the vision they're building for the future. From expanding the podcast into Spanish to creating opportunities for more diverse voices in ad tech, this conversation is a reminder that meaningful change...
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198. Performance Advertising in Programmatic
Programmatic Digest
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199. How To Be A Performance Marketer in Programmatic Media
Programmatic Digest
info_outlineIn part two of this special episode of the Programmatic Digest podcast, host Hélène Parker welcomes back Ed and introduces Jenny, the Head of Customer Experience at Pearl Diver Building on the previous episode's focus on audience discovery, this conversation dives deeply into audience optimization and the critical role of true partnership in ad tech.
Jenny and Ed share insights on the optimal times to introduce new audience segments, highlighting that the best time to test an adjacent audience is actually when current campaigns are already performing well
They also discuss their "chameleon" approach to customer service, where data partners deeply embed themselves to support overwhelmed traders who are managing up to 100 campaigns
The episode emphasizes the necessity of transparency between buyers and data providers, the realities of onboarding versus optimization timelines, and concludes with valuable career wisdom for programmatic professionals
In this episode, we cover:
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From Discovery to Optimization: Transitioning from finding your audience to actively optimizing your programmatic campaigns.
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The "Chameleon" Approach to Client Services: How true ad-tech partners seamlessly embed themselves into your agency to support overwhelmed traders who are managing up to 100 campaigns.
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The Perfect Time to Test New Audiences: Why you shouldn't wait for a campaign to fail before exploring new segments, and why a winning campaign provides the perfect low-risk environment to test.
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Why DSP Transparency is Non-Negotiable: The importance of sharing your screen and DSP setup with data partners to prevent overlapping targeting (like double geo-filters) and restrictive parameters.
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Onboarding Speed vs. Optimization Patience: Breaking the misconception that setting up a new data partner takes months (it can take just 45 minutes!), while emphasizing the patience required for an audience to actually optimize.
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Career Wisdom for Ad-Tech Professionals: Ed and Jenny share the best career advice they've received, including the importance of "always be testing" and why you should "never want to be the smartest person in the room".
About Us:
We help historically excluded individuals break into programmatic media buying and land jobs they love. Through our Reach and Frequency® program, coaching, and community, we make learning programmatic clear, practical, and welcoming. Join once, stay learning forever. Past workshops, paid gems, and every new recording + resource added as we go. This library isn’t a one-time thing, it’s the full vault plus all future trainings, recordings, and guides. Access it here: https://www.heleneparker.com/library
🪶 Timestamps and Topics
- Introduction & Guest Background: Welcoming Jenny and Ed
- Explaining Ad-Tech to Friends and Family
- The "Chameleon" Approach to Client Services
- Sales Pitches vs. True Partnerships
- The Best Time to Introduce New Audiences
- The Critical Need for DSP Transparency
- Screen-Sharing for Better Reporting
- Onboarding Speed vs. Optimization Time
- Final Career Wisdom
👤 Meet the Guests:
Jenny Ha – Pearl Diver
Jenny Ha is the Head of Customer Experience at Pearl Diver. With 10 years of prior experience in traditional advertising client services, she deeply understands the challenges of her agency clients Jenny leads a hands-on team that acts as a "chameleon," embedding directly into clients' daily operations to build audiences and even join sales callsShe champions human connection in a tech-driven era and guides her career by the philosophy that "you never want to be the smartest person in the room," prioritizing continuous learning and transparency. Connect with Jenny: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenny-ha-/
Ed Hackney – Pearl Diver
Spent 25 years in advertising, including time as a creative director and ECD for Digitas New Zealand. Fascinated by personalizing the customer journey at mass scale, he transitioned into the software and data side of ad tech to help build tools that empower agencies to discover better audience segmentation. Connect with Ed: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nomorepapercuts/
About Pearl Diver
Pearl Diver is an audience intelligence platform built for the agentic marketing era. It helps marketers discover high-intent audiences, uncover hidden buyer personas through Reality Clusters, and activate real-time audience segments directly in platforms like Meta, Google, TikTok, and leading DSPs. With its dedicated MCP connector, Pearl Diver also brings real-time audience insights into AI workflows, helping marketers make faster, smarter campaign decisions.
https://www.pearldiver.io/meet-michael-at-pearl-diver
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