Transcript -Episode 3: It's Not Always Perfect With Dawn McClure, Instructor Of Speech Communication

00:00:00 Dawne McClure

My philosophy approach to teaching the way I go through is through my heart, wanting people to just feel comfortable to open up, be a good person, and if you make a mistake, apologize. It's not always perfect.

                

00:00:14 Veronica Daniel

When it comes to a community college, as students, we're the reason why everyone else is here. I think a lot of times when people think of students, they're thinking about us growing and learning. But the one thing that I realized talking to my professors is that they are constantly also growing and learning as well, whether they want to admit it or not.

                

00:00:33 Veronica Daniel

I'm your host, Veronica Daniel, and I'm a journalism and communication student here on campus.

                

00:00:40 Liesel Reinhart

I'm Dr. Liesel Reinhart. I teach mass communication and TVR courses here at PCC, and I am thrilled to co-host with my amazing former student, Veronica.

                

00:00:49 Veronica Daniel

On this show, Liesel and I are going to talk with some remarkable individuals from our PCC campus community. These are people you may know, but stories you probably don't.

                

00:00:58 Liesel Reinhart

It can be tough, but we don't have to do it alone.

                

00:01:00 Veronica Daniel

Exactly. Because in higher education, we are all under development. A podcast from the Office of Professional and Organizational Development at Pasadena City College and funded by a PCC Foundation Community Excellence Grant.

                

00:01:17 Veronica Daniel

Hi, Liesel.

                

00:01:17 Liesel Reinhart

Hello Veronica.

                

00:01:20 Veronica Daniel

I'm really excited to interview today's guest.

                

00:01:23 Liesel Reinhart

He's a very special person I've known for quite a while.

                

00:01:27 Veronica Daniel

Yes. So, the crazy thing about life is that you never really know what someone else is going through. I think that's why it's so incredibly important to be kind to everyone.

                

00:01:40 Veronica Daniel

I've experienced a lot working in the F&B industry, which is the food and beverage industry as a server and a bartender. Someone will snap at you and then the next second they break down crying and they're telling you about why they're so upset. And they would always say that they felt like they could open up to me because I never acted like anything bothered me.

                

00:01:58 Veronica Daniel

And I generally speaking, don't. Because I feel like sometimes if someone is upset, they're probably going through something that you possibly couldn't understand unless they were open and brave enough to tell you their story.

                

00:02:10 Liesel Reinhart

You do seem very calm in a storm.

                

00:02:13 Veronica Daniel

I mean, everything always works out. And I think that a lot of things in life aren't worth stressing over. And the things that are worth stressing over, there is some kind of a solution at some point.

                

00:02:24 Veronica Daniel

I used to be a literal stress case and it wasn't good for me. It's not good for your health. So, at some point I was just like, "Everything always works out anyway, why am I so upset?"

                

00:02:37 Liesel Reinhart

Our guest today is one of the most calm, chill people. And even in a stressful situation always is like, "Let's just breathe, everything's going to be fine. And it's surprising because I know a little bit about his story because we've known each other for quite a while.

                

00:02:57 Liesel Reinhart

And it's very interesting that somebody who's experienced some of the things he has approaches the world in that way. Someone who maybe has a reason to be more stressed or worried about how things are going to unfold.

                

00:03:11 Liesel Reinhart

He doesn't shy away from speaking his truth. He always is an advocate for students and important perspectives. That doesn't change, but the way in which it's handled is done within ease that I love.

                

00:03:27 Veronica Daniel

He's a great person. As one of his former students, I can say that he is hands down one of the best professors that I've had here at PCC. And so, I'm really excited to lock in on his story and see what he has to say.

                

00:03:40 Liesel Reinhart

You actually met him when he was subbing from my class.

                

00:03:43 Veronica Daniel

I did. I did. And his teaching methods were very unorthodox and I was kind of like, "What is this guy doing? Who does he think he is? Just walking into her classroom." And by the time it was over, I was like, "Oh my God, I love this guy." And as soon as there was an opportunity for me to register for one of his classes, I did. And I still take away a lot of the lessons that we learned in that class with me.

                

00:04:05 Liesel Reinhart

Well, I'm so honored that he's a faculty colleague of mine here and I'm really excited to hear your conversation.

                

00:04:12 Veronica Daniel

Me too, let's get into it.

                

00:04:13 Veronica Daniel

Hi, Dawne.

                

00:04:17 Dawne McClure

Hi Veronica. How you doing?

                

00:04:19 Veronica Daniel

I'm doing good. How are you?

                

00:04:21 Dawne McClure

I'm good. I haven't seen you in a while, so it's good to see you.

                

00:04:23 Veronica Daniel

I know, it's been a while.

                

00:04:24 Dawne McClure

Yes.

                

00:04:24 Veronica Daniel

I heard that you like roller skating?

                

00:04:30 Dawne McClure

That is correct.

                

00:04:31 Veronica Daniel

Okay. So, the reason why I ask this is because I also like to roller skate and I keep my roller skates in my car-

                

00:04:38 Dawne McClure

You should come.

                

00:04:38 Veronica Daniel

At all times. I would be very down. I'm trying to pick up new-

                

00:04:43 Dawne McClure

Can you skate?

                

00:04:44 Veronica Daniel

I can skate. Yeah.

                

00:04:45 Dawne McClure

Like skate, skate or can you do a little two step?

                

00:04:49 Veronica Daniel

I can't do all of the tricks. You know what I'm saying?

                

00:04:52 Dawne McClure

Got you.

                

00:04:52 Veronica Daniel

But the only one I can do is the one where you bend down and grab your leg and roll. That's basically it.

                

00:04:59 Veronica Daniel

So, I feel like there's a lot of things that I didn't know about you until I was no longer your student. And so, can you tell us what you do here on campus?

                

00:05:10 Dawne McClure

Oh, absolutely. So, I got my start here in 2019 and you were one of my students into one of my speech classes. So, I teach in the communications department here and I just received tenure. So, tenure process is a four-year probationary period where you have to teach and serve on committees. I just got through on a hiring committee right before coming here.

                

00:05:33 Dawne McClure

So, I teach public speaking, interpersonal communication, intro to communication theory, mass communication, my masters is in mass communication. And so, I do jump on that side. And so , even just like you all here today, I got my start actually in radio as a producer as well. So, my bachelor's is in television and film and I worked at a news station in Illinois, small town.

                

00:05:59 Dawne McClure

And I got a lot of hands-on experience, which was fire. The people were amazing. The pay was trash, which is why I left. So, I could jump from quite a few different things I guess in what I'm teaching. But in my low-keyness as professors, you get to declare everything you are qualified to teach.

                

00:06:21 Dawne McClure

Right now, I've just been staying on the comm side and I have not, I guess put out there like, "Hey, I can teach these things as well," just trying to make sure I have my foundation set and things like that.

                

00:06:32 Veronica Daniel

It's interesting because ever since I've met you, I've run into a lot of people in our communication department, be it other students and faculty members and everyone just adores you. Every time I mention your name, someone has something so positive to say about you and it's always something different.

                

00:06:50 Veronica Daniel

I had a professor who, I was telling her that I used to be one of your students. And she was like, "Oh, he's amazing. I love the way that he interacts with other members of the faculty department, the communication department." And she was just like, "I just see him being in this great leadership role, but I know that he loves to teach."

                

00:07:08 Veronica Daniel

And same with students, I'll be like, "Oh, you should take speech with Dawne," and they're like, "Oh my God, I love Dawne. I had him, he was so patient with me." Everyone just has something nice to say about you. And so-

                

00:07:20 Dawne McClure

I'm glad to hear it. It's hard to please a number of students. And in actuality my goal has been not to be pleasing to all students because then I lose myself and my authenticity. You can't please everyone but it's really to exude empathy, to uplift, to make sure. But sometimes people do fall through the cracks.

                

00:07:43 Dawne McClure

Sometimes I can't get to everybody and I do lose people and I do piss people off. So, it's nice to hear that, I always strive to want to be better. So, nice to hear that. Yeah, I'm a team player. I like to keep community, even in the classes I believe in community. So, I'm a big proponent of that.

                

00:08:01 Veronica Daniel

I think it's because I mean, at least from my perspective, you seem to have this love and passion for what you do. And as one of your former students, observing how you've treated other students in the classroom as well as how you treated me, you have this amazing, uncanny ability to take people where they're at.

                

00:08:22 Veronica Daniel

And you push people, but not in a way that is intimidating or feels like it's controlling. I don't know if you remember this, but on the first day of class, the first thing that you said to everyone is, "I don't care if you're late and you can get up and use the restroom, it's not that big of a deal."

                

00:08:35 Veronica Daniel

And the thing that I was talking to my co-host Liesel about was the fact that when you were trying and your ability to tell people, "Hey, you don't have to be on time," I noticed that most of the time people were on time.

                

00:08:49 Dawne McClure

Yeah, or not far off. I did have one student complaining, like, "We're not going to meet the last class," because it was online. And I was like, "I didn't realize you enjoyed the class so much." But yes, that comes from the homelessness.

                

00:09:04 Dawne McClure

Community colleges are a commuter school. People are either working, trying to hustle, internships, food insecurity is a thing. Just going through life is hard as hell.

                

00:09:17 Dawne McClure

And so, in my learning and trying to adapt more and more community style and get here however you can, teaching and education should go far beyond the classroom. And sometimes some students can just come in and pass the class. They don't need a lot of help in communication.

                

00:09:38 Dawne McClure

Sometimes it's just about building up confidence or letting people know like, "Hey, if this one classroom, if you felt comfortable here, that means there might be other classrooms like this." You should find your community where you fit in, where you feel it.

                

00:09:49 Dawne McClure

And I think just me operating and how I would feel and how I felt when I first started in academia , hell, I did not feel welcomed in academia until really I got to my master's program and then that was even very turbulent.

                

00:10:09 Dawne McClure

And if I'm being all the way honest in certain spaces, visiting different schools or something like that, I've run into issues because academia is still predominantly white. And so, you all see how I'm dressed. I got on the hoodie, ripped jeans, you know what I'm saying? That's me, that's me at work. That's me in my personal life, that is just me all around.

                

00:10:31 Dawne McClure

So, I think a lot of times the first issues that run up against me is the dress, which I'm not too worried about. It's until I start to articulate myself. And it just depends on where you catch me, if I'm talking about theory or something like that, or if we're talking about diversity, equity, whatever the numbers may be, then people sit up and like, "Oh, let me actually take you serious or whatnot." And so, yeah.

                

00:10:54 Veronica Daniel

And since we're talking about numbers and doing research for your episode of this podcast, I found that 20% of community college students in California will experience being unhoused at some point. And that really hit me because I also spent some time being unhoused while I was in community college, while I was actually here at PCC And this-

                

00:11:18 Dawne McClure

Pause. Congratulations. I remember you telling me that story.

                

00:11:20 Veronica Daniel

Thank you.

                

00:11:21 Dawne McClure

So, you said you were unhoused?

                

00:11:24 Veronica Daniel

I was.

                

00:11:26 Dawne McClure

Where are you now?

                

00:11:27 Veronica Daniel

So, I have my own apartment now, which is great.

                

00:11:29 Dawne McClure

Congratulations.

                

00:11:30 Dawne McClure

Thank you.

                

00:11:31 Dawne McClure

Hey, let's go. What are you talking about?

                

00:11:33 Veronica Daniel

Thank you.

                

00:11:33 Dawne McClure

Good. Congrats. And so, are you feeling safe?

                

00:11:39 Veronica Daniel

I feel super safe. I mean, I think everything about my life … we're not talking about me in this episode, but I think that-

                

00:11:47 Dawne McClure

But I'm asking.

                

00:11:48 Veronica Daniel

I think everything about my life now feels so safe. And I would love to give my 19-year, 20-year-old self, just a huge hug and reassurance because yeah, I feel so safe and comfortable in literally every aspect of my life, but especially in my living situation, there is definitely something very empowering. And I know that you can relate to this as well about being unhoused and then getting your own apartment.

                

00:12:12 Veronica Daniel

It's the most rewarding experience because you just appreciate in a completely different way being able to eat and not worry about where it's going to come from, not having to go to the dollar store to get your food and being embarrassed because you can't even afford that. It's a different experience, and so-

                

00:12:30 Dawne McClure

And just a quick tip that I am still learning and working through myself is that when you move into these new spaces and you now have a home over your head and it does provide safety. And when you're having good moments, when you are able to walk into a home and lay your head down and not have to look over your shoulder, or did I move my car in time or I got to get to the next spot in order for you to continue to welcome positive nurturing energy, things that uplift you. Survival mode, tactics do not work in thriving spaces. It'll actually work against you.

                

00:13:09 Dawne McClure

And I know that firsthand that our defense mechanisms of what worked on the street and things like that. So, when people are trying to show you genuine love or pick you up or give you compliments and because it's hard to receive if you are in survival mode when you are in a new space when it's not called for.

                

00:13:34 Veronica Daniel

Absolutely. I absolutely agree with that.

                

00:13:36 Dawne McClure

It gets tough.

                

00:13:36 Veronica Daniel

Yeah.

                

00:13:38 Dawne McClure

I'm a very cutthroat person myself because of it. First time I was homeless I was seven and then it happened again and again and again. And the last time I was homeless, I was in community college. So, whew, it's a lot to unpack there. And so, it's hard sometimes for people to relate to me and I'm learning this and now with where I am in friendships because I'm not very close to a lot of family. So, my friends have become my family that you build around you.

                

00:14:12 Dawne McClure

But now we are in these spaces where it's like, either you're working hardcore on your career or some folks have gotten married, or some people are like kids over here or they got career kids. And this is the first time I'm experiencing devastating losses in the sense, because I've always kind of been alone and I do alone in a sense, well, in some areas.

                

00:14:39 Dawne McClure

So, I've never had to say goodbye to good people and not the best way I describe it as people, we will experience many different types of deaths in life. And it doesn't have to always be physically six feet deep in the ground. You will go through many different types of relationships that have given you life and then they come to die.

                

00:14:59 Dawne McClure

And we have to mourn those relationships and the purpose that they served us and everything that they taught us. And so, even now I am in mourning of some of my friendships and it's some of the deepest heartbreak that I've ever experienced because I've always been so locked up and caged up to survive to even get this far.

                

00:15:20 Veronica Daniel

All of that makes sense. Let's start from the beginning then. So, like millions of people here in California, you are a transplant. And you're from Illinois?

                

00:15:33 Dawne McClure

Yes. Chicago, Illinois.

                

00:15:34 Veronica Daniel

Chicago, Illinois. Okay. So, can you talk about your experience of coming to California? You said that you first became unhoused when you were seven. So, can you tell me a little bit about your experience of being unhoused here in California and then of course your journey being unhoused in community colleges?

                

00:15:54 Dawne McClure

Yeah. So, if I'm going to go ahead and pop it off the big incident, because we ain't got that much time. So , the big incident, imagine you are seven years old and you are sent to school. I don't know, was I in the second, third grade somewhere in there, I'll never forget her name. Her name was Miss Flinner. She was this amazing white woman, so welcoming, so kind like I will never forget her name.

                

00:16:20 Dawne McClure

She drove a white Saturn, she was cool. I would call her a red head or something, but I'll never forget her face. And the reason why I say that is because in certain instances of trauma, you just remember every detail, there's some things, I cannot remember what just happened an hour ago, but there are certain things in my life that I will … it'll never leave my mind.

                

00:16:45 Dawne McClure

So, seven-years-old, show up to class, like I got I think a hoodie on or whatever, a sweater or something. I'm trying to cover my face because the night before, I had been beaten on so bad by this grown man who my mom was dating at the time. He literally was punching me in my face, like bare fist. And so, my entire mouth was swollen, I couldn't talk or whatever. And just like face is swollen.

                

00:17:07 Dawne McClure

So, I had did a good job of covering my face all through school, beginning of class, whatever. And so, we were doing a ... I don't know what the assignment was, but we were doing an assignment and I couldn't stop crying as my head was down trying to complete the assignment and what I won't forget is going through that moment, I'm trying to think like, man, as a seven-year-old kid, how do I get out of this but also help my mom get out this because he is beating my mom too.

                

00:17:38 Dawne McClure

So, I'm like, this is crazy. He was on heroin and some other drugs. And so, I just think he had gotten so comfortable because abusers are very crafty, especially if they don't want to be found out. So, a lot of the beatings that would happen would always be where clothing would … it was never the face.

                

00:18:06 Dawne McClure

But he was so gone this day. I was sitting on the edge of the bed, just imagine, I don't know, you're seven and some, I don't know, he was like 6'2. Some big black man just comes and he's mad at his actual son because his son got in trouble at school. But he wouldn't whoop his son. Yeah, he ended up just cocking all the way back in full blow, knocking me out.

                

00:18:23 Dawne McClure

And so, I hit the bed so hard that I bounced back up and then he punched me again in the face. So, this is my first initial heartbreak because I'll never forget it, watching my mother, look at me get beat in my face and then her walking away and not doing anything. So, it was the first experience in my life and it carries with me through all relationships.

                

00:18:55 Dawne McClure

Because I'm like, if my own mother will let me down, anybody, nobody will be there. And that image, that heartbreak has never left my soul. It's always been all over me. And I try my best to heal from it and it still touches me on the inside. I don't always break down and cry, but it is still a tough thing to deal with. And that's at seven.

                

00:19:22 Dawne McClure

So, one morning my mom gets up and she's like, "I've had enough of this nonsense that's going on." So, she takes us to the job. She worked downtown, she was in corporate America, whatnot. And he showed up at my mom's job with a gun and was threatening to kill. So, they had to get us out the building immediately, which is how we landed in a battered women's shelter.

                

00:19:46 Dawne McClure

In the shelter, I met this beautiful black woman who had midnight skin and orange hair and she was a prostitute, and she was beat up so bad, another image that'll never leave me. And she couldn't see out of one eye. The other eye was super low and swollen. I think her pimp had beat her and she had her babies.

                

00:20:04 Dawne McClure

And I'm going to cry for her, not for my own self, but I just remember the kindness that she extended me, this woman, she is literally … she is tore up. If I thought I was beat up bad as a seven-year-old kid in class, this woman's face was disfigured and I'm crying because of the kindness.

                

00:20:43 Dawne McClure

Because when you could just get that authentic, people who are genuine. Now at this point in my life where I am now is different, but for many years I did not know what kindness and to have genuine people in your life. So, I just remember that being a shift, and I'll never forget her.

                

00:21:10 Dawne McClure

And so, I've had people who have told me they are strippers, used to be prostitutes because I will talk about my experience or I'll give little glimpses and say like, "If I could make it in, wherever I come from, then anybody's welcome in my classroom."

                

00:21:27 Dawne McClure

And so, it's because of kindness at seven-years-old. And this woman just had the most beautiful smile and was like, "Oh, it's going to be okay baby. Don't worry about me. Oh, I'm good." I really to this day hope she's okay. I never not think about her, never.

                

00:21:55 Dawne McClure

It's funny how life works out because what moves me most and it's like, man, it shouldn't be like this. What moves me most is when I encounter very kind people. It sometimes puts me on guard and then I remember, "Dawne, but that is what you strive to be and that's what you want to be welcoming and just a genuine person. You don't want to ask anybody for anything, you just be nice."

                

00:22:26 Dawne McClure

And that's just my philosophy approach to teaching, be a good person and if you make a mistake, apologize. It's not always perfect, but , Lord have mercy.

                

00:22:39 Veronica Daniel

I guess can you talk a little bit about your experience being homeless? That's the label.

                

00:22:49 Dawne McClure

I use it. They're changing.

                

00:22:50 Veronica Daniel

Yes, just for the record. I mean, of course we are not saying this in any way to offend anybody who is homeless. We obviously have the utmost respect for people that are homeless. And so, we are going to be using homeless and unhoused interchangeably.

                

00:23:04 Dawne McClure

May I add something?

                

00:23:04 Veronica Daniel

Yes.

                

00:23:04 Dawne McClure

I identify as part of the homeless community. I wasn't homeless many years ago. So, as I am talking about my experience and the connection to it, I just say homeless.

                

00:23:17 Veronica Daniel

Can you tell us a day in the life?

                

00:23:20 Dawne McClure

Yes, absolutely. Just fast forwarding, you want to identify where it's safe to take showers, where you can get free meals, different bathrooms you rotate through, you kind of learn scheduling of colleges and classes. And so, for myself, the first thing I would do, usually I would just go and work out and then that automatically gave me a reason to have to shower. So, I was like, "Okay, boom, boom, that's done in the morning or whatever."

                

00:23:46 Dawne McClure

So, you go work out, shower, you know how you figure out where they're serving food at. Everybody throws food away. So much food goes to waste. I've definitely eaten out of trash cans, but you make sure it's covered. You can find bread or something that they throw away or whatever, you know what I'm saying? That's still in the packaging. Some got made wrong or whatever. I even slept in between American Red Cross.

                

00:24:09 Dawne McClure

So, Mt. SAC, Cal Poly are like back to back and so there's a back street, me and my mom used to sleep on that back street and then there's like a little dam and then my friend lived on the other side. And when my car broke down, I used to sneak into the backyard of my friend's house and sleep in the backyard.

                

00:24:26 Dawne McClure

And when I joined the speech team and people didn't know I was homeless then, where people would be like, "I'll give you a ride home." Then I would just jump out at some random corner.

                

00:24:37 Veronica Daniel

So, when you say things like this, I'm listening to you and for me, I can just say, that is so exhausting. You know what I'm saying?

                

00:24:46 Dawne McClure

Oh, heck yeah.

                

00:24:46 Veronica Daniel

To have to do all of this day in and day out is exhausting. But one of the things that I think is even wilder to me is that you were doing all of these things on a daily basis while staying in school. And I really want to touch on that because again, I know that there are students that go here, that go to PCC who are going through similar experiences that you have went through.

                

00:25:12 Veronica Daniel

I definitely want to give a big shout out to those students and to people like you. But I wanted to know how were you able to do that? How can you go through this exhausting process and still stay in school?

                

00:25:23 Dawne McClure

You know what, I was never a fan of school that, but it actually was like, "I don't have nowhere to go. So, this is like my daytime home." You got to get off the streets because the problem is like when you roam around and other homeless people or people who could be potentially dangerous to you on the street, they start identifying you.

                

00:25:44 Dawne McClure

So, going to school was like, "Okay, well I don't like school, but I'm very visible in the daytime." I can't be sleeping open, I can't be laid down on the grass just randomly, you know what I'm saying? I'm also a big black man, so I ain't trying to get arrested, you know what I'm saying for trespassing or whatever.

                

00:26:01 U_UKN

So, I was at school all damn day, a lot of times bright and early until they cut them lights off and I was like, "Okay, here we go again, where am I going tonight?" Just exhausting, whatever. But it was you got to do enough to at least get some kind of passable grades so you can keep coming back. And then it was like, that was where I was getting my food from, that was also where I was showering from. What kept me going? Survival.

                

00:26:29 Veronica Daniel

Yeah. So, I did want to ask, based off of your situation, I also want to say congratulations on being a tenured professor here at PCC-

                

00:26:38 Dawne McClure

Oh, thank you.

                

00:26:39 Veronica Daniel

That is a huge deal, so, congratulations. So, as a professor, in what ways would you help a student who came to you and was talking to you about their situation, being homeless. In what ways would you help them?

                

00:26:53 Dawne McClure

Yes. So, one of the ways, if you're in my class, the reason I open up about my story of being homeless as a community college student, it's for the relatability effect. And to say, let's try and forget about power dynamics. I'm very interested in if I can point you in that direction, even if I can't help you, I would like to at least find you someone.

                

00:27:14 Dawne McClure

So, by opening up and saying, "I don't care where you are in your walk of life, if you are on drugs, you are welcome here. If you're living on the street, you are welcome here. If you single parent, you're welcome here and you can bring your kid." I've had people bring their kids in. So, that's the first step.

                

00:27:30 Dawne McClure

Another example I've done is I've taught dual enrollment over at the high school. And I had a young kid, Latin kid who the home he was in, they didn't have enough food to feed everybody. So, I just started going to the pantry and I would get a box and I would take as much free food as they would allow and then I would just say, "Hey, this box is here free."

                

00:27:52 Dawne McClure

So, one, because the one thing is you don't want to be singled out when you're the one going through it. So, I would just go around and set something on their desk on purpose and then I would say, "Hey, if you don't want that, you can exchange it." Because that way everybody has something. So, if they don't want it, they can just put it back.

                

00:28:11 Dawne McClure

Or if this person is in need, they are participating in something that everybody has to do as opposed to, because I never wanted to look like the hungry kid.

                

00:28:21 Dawne McClure

But also, if I'm being honest in other ways too, I will curse a little bit, make jokes a little bit, that's a part of my personality and that authenticity, wanting people to just feel comfortable to open up. But the way I go through is through my heart.

                

00:28:37 Veronica Daniel

I understand, I understand. And I think that that is a really honest answer. I think that it's definitely a respectable answer because I think sometimes people just need to be heard. I do just want to emphasize that from a student perspective. I do want to say that there are a lot of different programs here that can help you.

                

00:28:55 Veronica Daniel

I would really, really recommend taking advantage of certain things like the food pantry, they have posters and signs all over campus. I understand that everyone is in a different situation and that it's hard not to be embarrassed in those situations, but your health, it's a huge priority.

                

00:29:12 Veronica Daniel

And being able to feed yourself is the first step in that. Continuing on with health, your mental health is also extremely important. And the school definitely offers priority to people who are in situations where they're homeless or aren't in just volatile living situations.

                

00:29:29 Veronica Daniel

And so, in my experience, when I opened up to my therapist about what I was going through several months ago in terms of having a financial, a personal financial crisis, they actually went the extra mile. And because I have a history of certain mental health issues, they were actually able to use the student bank to give me money so that I could pay for my bills.

                

00:29:50 Veronica Daniel

And I had never heard of this in my entire life. And that money, it saved me. I was able to pay my rent, I was able to pay for a lot of my bills.

                

00:29:58 Dawne McClure

I didn't know it until you told me either. PCC, I would say most schools or all schools have resources that are just untapped.

                

00:30:06 Veronica Daniel

Yeah, you can have access to these resources without having to give up your anonymity. And that's one of the reasons why pathways or having personal counseling is so important because that is the area where you can talk about your personal stuff and then you have these other resources just to help you.

                

00:30:21 Veronica Daniel

So, your success is so amazing, it's so beautiful and it definitely translate in your personality and how you treat your students. But I do want to know what part of you is still under development.

                

00:30:36 Dawne McClure

Sure. I think just in a very basic way, all of me right now at this big age, I'm in my first apartment of living on my own actually. I've always had roommates and things like that always bounced around. So, that's huge learning, you paying your own bills and I have six figures in debt because of all the education that I have received.

                

00:30:58 Dawne McClure

So, I'm like, woo. I have to learn finances and taxes like everybody else, how to keep myself afloat and things like that. Education wise, yes, I've gotten all these degrees. Okay, what do I want to do next? How do I want to continue to help students? So, that's always a learning curve, that's always something new to learn.

                

00:31:15 Dawne McClure

And I'm constantly learning new ways to be myself, I think in new spaces. Now, that I can afford clothes and things like that or whatnot, I feel like for a long time I haven't had freedom of expression and I'm still learning that and teaching myself to be present, to enjoy life, to stop fearing kindness or as soon as something good happens to you, like stop waiting for something bad to come along. I have a bad habit of that.

                

00:31:42 Dawne McClure

And I think fighting institutionalized racism and spaces that are not welcoming to minority groups and non-traditional students, like homeless students, speaking up and being an advocate for that, I'm learning to constantly be better in things like that. So, it never stops, like yourself, you just said, "Oh, you're successful." If I'm being honest, I don't feel that way.

                

00:32:06 Dawne McClure

So, I'm learning to accept getting this far, but it's because I also want more, it's a full on remake over from mind, body, and spirit, mentally, emotionally, increasing that emotional intelligence. And like you said, going to therapy myself, learning does not stop. And I have more learning on how to live in a thriving and happy environment.

                

00:32:33 Dawne McClure

I know sadness and pain well, and I know how to deal with that better than I do happiness, which is why I always working on being happy and whatnot and unpacking and releasing. I've released a lot of trauma and anger to get this far and I don't want to go back.

                

00:32:48 Dawne McClure

So, yeah, it's a full thing. I don't think it'll ever stop if I'm being honest. So, don't ever feel like you get to a place where it's going to stop, seriously.

                

00:32:57 Veronica Daniel

Yeah. It shouldn't stop. Well, thank you so much, tenured Professor Dawne McClure for coming onto the Underdevelopment Podcast. You are amazing, we truly appreciate you and again, thank you so much for being vulnerable and letting us hear your story.

                

00:33:13 Dawne McClure

Yes, thank you for having me. You all are dope. Love this setup.

                

00:33:18 Veronica Daniel

You're so welcome.

                

00:33:20 Liesel Reinhart

Alright, so Veronica, I just have to say I learned a lot about both of you today and I was really surprised by this intense experience you've both had. What was it like talking to somebody else who also experienced being unhoused while being a community college student?

                

00:33:39 Veronica Daniel

It was a relief. I think so many times it's hard to talk about your experiences.

                

00:33:45 Liesel Reinhart

I'm always surprised because I was his speech coach and teacher during some of those years and never knew, which gives me regrets in a way that, how did I not know that? How was I unaware of that, what he was experiencing? But boy, it just makes me be very conscious to think about how I invite students to share things with me because we have resources, we have incredible resources here.

                

00:34:15 Liesel Reinhart

I've recently become aware of some housing for unhoused students that's made possible through an organization called, I think it's called Shower of Hope, that has opened up some housing for students just a few miles from campus. We have emergency housing services, we have a food bank. But if I don't tell my students that they can safely come to me, then I can't connect them to those resources.

                

00:34:37 Liesel Reinhart

And so, it's a big reminder for me today that I need to make this no big deal, to make it not a shame issue and to invite students to share their needs with me so that I can connect them to programs and people who can help them.

                

00:34:51 Veronica Daniel

I'm so glad that you bring this up because that's kind of the main point. And my main takeaway from all of this is that 20% of community college students in California will experience homelessness at some point in their academic journey. And so, taking advantage of these resources and being vocal, I mean, it is scary sometimes to tell somebody that you need help because you don't know how people are going to respond.

                

00:35:16 Veronica Daniel

Being unhoused in general, it's very difficult and it's very scary and people who go through it are, in my opinion, some of the bravest people. And so, to be brave in that way, you can also be brave in using your voice to speak up for what you need.

                

00:35:33 Veronica Daniel

The people who work here on this campus, they're here for us students. They're here to educate us, protect us, empower us, and support us. And so, we really need to take advantage of this because just telling one person your story can change the trajectory of your life.

                

00:35:53 Liesel Reinhart

Absolutely. And the fact that Dawne is openly sharing this, is growth for his students in his classes, but it's also growth for his colleagues and everyone else. When we tell our students that we have struggled, it makes it okay for them to experience struggles as well.

                

00:36:09 Liesel Reinhart

When you get it all out there, we can all just be human, who we are, imperfect, struggling, dealing with complicated lives and still keep moving forward. We don't have to have this mantle of perfection.

                

00:36:22 Veronica Daniel

Well, because it's honest, right?

                

00:36:23 Liesel Reinhart

Yeah. It's real.

                

00:36:24 Veronica Daniel

As soon as you're honest with yourself and your truth, it's so much easier for you to go through life being the best version of yourself that you possibly can be.

                

00:36:33 Liesel Reinhart

Brilliant. Thank you for listening to the Under Development Podcast. This podcast is production of the Office of Professional and Organizational Development at Pasadena City College and funded by a PCC Foundation Community Excellence Grant.

                

00:36:48 Liesel Reinhart

I'm your co-host, Liesel Reinhart, our host is Veronica Daniel. Executive producers of this podcast are Dr. Jason Robinson and Nicholas Hatch.

                

00:36:57 Liesel Reinhart

We invite you to join our community by subscribing to the podcast or visit the website for the Office of Professional and Organizational Development at PCC to find out more resources mentioned in this show, workshops you can be a part of, and how to get involved in professional development here at the college.