Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with John B. Grimes, Survivor Inspiring Resilience, Author, Destiny is Debatable

🎙️ Podcasts By Dr. Kirk Adams: Interview with John B. Grimes, Survivor Inspiring Resilience, Author, Destiny is Debatable
https://drkirkadams.com/podcasts-by-dr-kirk-adams-01-29-2026/

In this candid episode of Podcasts by Dr. Kirk Adams, Dr. Adams talks with John B. Grimes about the life-altering night in 1998 when, as a 19-year-old Texas Tech student, Grimes contracted meningococcal disease and woke up in the hospital days later blind, disoriented, and relearning basic functions, walking, talking, swallowing, while also navigating lasting neurological impacts. Grimes explains why he once called himself “ambiguously blind,” describes the role the Texas Commission for the Blind played in reopening his world (from accessible coursework to practical support), and reflects on the fear and grief he initially resisted, until later counseling helped him begin processing the change.

The conversation also centers on Grimes' forthcoming memoir, Destiny Is Debatable, releasing February 7, 2026, chosen to mark the anniversary of the day he entered the hospital, and the core message behind the title: that life's trajectory isn't fixed, and waiting rarely makes hard things easier. He shares how he built a career in the family insurance business (and how remote work became a major accessibility advantage), sprinkles in a few “college-kid” stories, and looks ahead to deeper work in meningitis advocacy, including the foundation he helped launch, Shots for Meningitis. Dr. Adams closes by encouraging listeners to connect, follow Grimes online, and pick up the book.

TRANSCRIPT:

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Podcast Commentator: Welcome to podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams, where we bring you powerful conversations with leading voices in disability rights, employment and inclusion. Our guests share their expertise, experiences and strategies to inspire action and create a more inclusive world. If you're passionate about social justice or want to make a difference, you're in the right place. Let's dive in with your host, Doctor Kirk Adams.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Welcome, everybody, to podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams. I am that Doctor Kirk Adams talking to you from my home office in Seattle, Washington. And today I have the pleasure of talking with a person I've gotten to know fairly well from a distance and very very inspired by by what he's doing with, with his life. And I'd like to welcome John B Grimes. He is the author of the forthcoming memoir Destiny Is debatable. Coming out soon and available. Available to all of you very soon. And, John, welcome.

John B. Grimes: Howdy. Kirk. Great to be here.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Is that the Texas? The howdy.

John B. Grimes: That's it. You got it. Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Good, good. Well

John B. Grimes: Well, my wife's an Aggie, so that kind of. Oh, yeah, I guess it. That's what they say. Whether right or wrong, I just kind of adopted it as my own. I'm not an Aggie myself, so. Well, you can hold all the jokes back, but.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, well, we talked about that because my wife grew up in a tiny town named Caldwell, Texas, that if you're driving from Austin to College Station drive through it. And we were there for Thanksgiving and we stayed at we stayed in College Station. So we got a lot a lot of Aggie vibe there around Thanksgiving time.

John B. Grimes: Oh boy. There's a lot of Aggie vibe down there. Yeah. It's strong, it's strong.

Dr. Kirk Adams: It is. So for those of you who don't know me, just very briefly again, I'm Kirk Adams. I'm the immediate past president and CEO of the American Foundation for the blind AFB, which was Helen Keller's organization. And I did get to go sit at her desk whenever I needed inspiration. When we moved to New York and worked in those offices. And prior to that, I was the president and CEO of the Lighthouse for the blind, Inc. here in Seattle, which employs many hundreds of blind and deaf blind people in businesses, including aerospace manufacturing for all the Boeing Boeing aircraft. So very interesting organization for the last three and a half years, I have been operating under Innovative Impact LLC as Managing Director. It's a consulting practice that focuses on disability inclusion, primarily in employment and helping nonprofits serving people who are blind to scale. And in advising start up companies in the disability inclusion space. So I get to do whatever I want to do, whatever I think will will be interesting and impactful and help people. And through the course of the last three and a half years, I was connected with John. He mentioned that he was thinking about writing a book. And then he told me he had begun writing the book.

Dr. Kirk Adams: And he said he's planning to launch the book. So destiny is debatable. It's the title. And John would just love to hear about your journey as a as a person person with a visual impairment. And what? What? What year? Everyone. All of our all of our pathways are different. You know, my my retina is detached. When I was five years old in kindergarten, and I became totally blind overnight. And, you know, there was no question I needed to learn Braille and learn to use a cane and type on a typewriter so I could go into public school when I was ready, which I did it and did it in fourth grade. And you know, some of us are totally blind. Some of us have different visual conditions. Some many of us have changing visual conditions. So I'd love to hear about that journey. And what led you, what inspired you to put in the time and effort to write the book? And then, of course, we'd love to hear about the book and then any thoughts you have on, on on a future state for John B Grimes. Where are you headed? So microphone is yours.

John B. Grimes: Wow. Those are all great questions. So we did. Our paths crossed several years ago. And you were on my podcast, actually, which which at the time was called Ambiguously Blind, which I thought of as you were. You were talking there because you say all of our paths are different, and sight can be so different for so many people. And that's why I call myself ambiguously blind, because it's really unclear. And just even the name is kind of confusing, which is intentional because sight can be confusing, particularly sight loss. You know, in my experience, I'm sure you well, you have more experience than I do. But in my my experience personally, I just thought, you know, if you're blind, you're Stevie Wonder. If you're not, then you get glasses. And there really wasn't anything in between. But I found myself in between. Kirk. So the my my path to sight loss was overnight as well. Basically.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

John B. Grimes: In 1998, I was a 19 year old sophomore student. I went to Texas Tech University. Actually, just a little north and west of Texas A&M. And I was, like most 19 year olds, felt like I was ten feet tall and bulletproof. You know, nothing could stop me. I was living my best life, and I felt like I was getting the flu or something. And so I took some medicine and went to bed. Eight days later, I woke up in the hospital.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Oh.

John B. Grimes: Blind disoriented and more than lucky to be alive. Miraculously my fraternity brother found me unconscious on the floor in my bedroom. Now, I'm definitely not the only guy that's got a story about being found unconscious by their fraternity brother during college. Right. But in my case, it was due to a nasty bout with what is known as meningococcal disease. Which is more commonly known as meningitis or bacterial meningitis. Yeah. And so it's been it's now been 28 years since. And in addition to sight loss. So I have I've lost all the sight in my right eye, so totally blind. And I have about 2300 in my left eye. Okay. Which it's not straight on. It's not, it's not a, there's not a it's not it's not stargardt's where it's out and in or in or out. Mine is again, hard to explain at all. So it's not straight on. It's not. It's hard to explain. It's not good.

Dr. Kirk Adams: And I don't want to get into medical detail too much, but I, I don't know that I've talked to anyone other than yourself who has become visually impaired because of meningitis. And so it is a bacteria. So did it impact your retinas or your optic nerves or optic nerves? What was the optic nerves?

John B. Grimes: Okay, so meningitis is the inflammation. Start over so we can sure cut that part out. Meningitis is the inflammation of the meninges and the meninges the lining of the brain cavity and spinal cavity. So our our spines and brains have a lining in them. And it gets infected. And there's more than one way it can become infected. In my case, it was bacterial. And not to get too much in the weeds of medicine here either. But there's five types of bacteria that can cause it. And I got one of those five. And it's an airborne thing where anybody really, at any time could be carrying the bacteria in the back of your throat or in your nasal passage, and it just happens. You're at the right place at the right time for that, that to seep into your into the spinal cavity. And it does some pretty serious things. And so obviously, the brain is where all the control center is for your, you know, what your brain tells your body everything you need to do. And then your spine is all the wiring, essentially, for the nerves that fire the signals your brain gives your body. Right. So in addition to the sight loss. So my optic nerves were damaged and their brain cells that don't regenerate themselves. Okay. As a result of the swelling in my body, essentially, the blood flow was cut off to the optic nerves. And so apparently the right side of my brain had more swelling or than my left, I guess, is kind of the way to say it, which is why my left eye was not as impacted.

John B. Grimes: But throughout my body I have neurological dysfunction as well. Okay, so probably the. Easiest way to describe that as kind of as I said a minute ago, you're my my brain sends my body signals to do things, and my body doesn't respond to all of them because it the connection between my brain and what it's trying to do is disconnected. And so the my, my disabilities are all pretty much invisible. I don't use a cane. I don't use a guide dog. I can see just enough to be dangerous. Curt. Okay. I don't drive, right. But another example of the invisibility of my disabilities is a intermittent catheter. This is not a very fun conversation to talk to other parties, right? But the connection between my bladder and my brain is been disconnected as well. So the number 2190 is a number that I know. Because that's how many times I, I go potty at each year. Number one if you will. Because that's how many catheters I buy each year, so that's how I know that number. So things like that in my body have been disrupted. And meningitis is very fast acting. It does look like the flu quite often. So it's something that you got to be very aware of. And I had never heard of it until I woke up and they said.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. So, so you you wake up 19 year old kid, college kid, fraternity brother student at Texas Tech. And so what do you do?

John B. Grimes: Boy, that's a great question. So you said, what's the book about?

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

John B. Grimes: The book's pretty much about what I did. Okay. And there I mean, there's a lot of things I did, and one of the really cool things about writing the book was I was I went through a lot of those, you know, memories and things that have happened. Again, it was 28 years ago. The book does come out on February 7th, and the reason for the February 7th date is that's the date that I went to the hospital, actually. So February 7th, 1998 was the day I went to the hospital. So February 7th, 2026 will be the date that the book is released. And you know, it took me it took me a long. I'm still adapting. Just.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Sure.

John B. Grimes: Yeah, but there's a lot more adjustment.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Going on, right? The environment is always changing, so we all have to continue adapting, right?

John B. Grimes: But I one of the things I learned about myself in the writing process was just how unprepared for all of this I was.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Well. Well, why would you have been? Right.

John B. Grimes: Yeah. Right. Yeah, I was again, I was 19, I was 19, I was, you know, 19 is not the age of reason.

Dr. Kirk Adams: All right.

John B. Grimes: I was invincible. And stubborn as all get out too. So you just add all that together and.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So did you. Leave school and go back. Did you just figure out a way to keep on keeping on? Love I know you said it's all in the book, but if you could give us a little taste.

John B. Grimes: Oh, sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I did go back to school. So this happened in February when I went to the hospital and I left the hospital on February 28th. So I was there for 21 days. Yeah. And this was all in Lubbock, Texas, which is where Texas Tech is. And I'm from the Dallas area. I'm from Plano, Texas. And so I went back home to Plano with mom and dad, and from March through July of that year, that's when all of the super intense hard work happened for recovery. So lots of again, tons of things happened in there, which I write about. But it was the learning to walk. I mean, I didn't. Some of the other things that happened was I couldn't, I couldn't stand, I couldn't sit, I couldn't walk, I couldn't talk, I couldn't swallow, I couldn't see all these neurological things that had gotten damaged from the meningitis. About 80% of them were able to come back with therapy. Okay. And that's what I did for those 5 to 6 months there. And then I did return to school in August. I was determined to go back.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Good for.

John B. Grimes: You. So I went back in August and I dipped my toes in. Of course, I as I say, I didn't have any friends that were blind. You know, the only person I knew that was blind was Stevie Wonder. Right? I mentioned him already. I didn't really know him that well, but I liked his music. Yeah I didn't have any friends that used a catheter. You know I mentioned I was in a fraternity, so these were all things that didn't really jive with my Prior lifestyle that I was in, you know? So there was just a lot of adaptation. I, I started with a couple classes. For some reason, the first class I decided to take was English literature. When I went back.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I.

John B. Grimes: I say mercifully Paradise Lost wasn't available in Braille. Or audiobooks were really not that big of a thing back in 19. They're called audiotapes back then.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. Did you did you use. I think it was still called recording for the Blind and Dyslexic back then. Did you?

John B. Grimes: No, I don't know that that was available. If it was, I didn't. So I what I did, though, was I, I became acquainted with the Texas Commission for the blind.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Sure, sure.

John B. Grimes: And so that's where that's where everything started to get good. They it turns out they were they had an office right in the campus. In the library. So my counselor's name was Margaret Little. She was amazing. So I got to know Margaret really well. And so we did. I don't know about the recordings for the blind because maybe it was available, maybe it wasn't, but I didn't use it. They had stuff there locally on campus.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

John B. Grimes: And I had students like my friends or they had volunteers would do all that stuff and and put them on cassette tapes and things.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

John B. Grimes: So, yeah, I, I opened up a whole new world of things that I had no idea even existed.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah. And ultimately.

John B. Grimes: Finished in I was on the it turns out I was on the five year plan. Sure. Ultimately, I didn't quite make the PhD like you did, but I did get my bachelor's degree, and eventually made it out, but I, I learned a lot of things in college. You know.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I started my PhD in 2010 and finished in 2019, so.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I yeah, there was there was a little, a few, few leaving the lighthouse, going to work at AFB. Moving to New York, moving to D.C., all that happened. So I was on the nine year plan.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, don't don't feel bad about wrapping up a bachelor's degree in five. It's pretty, pretty impressive. So, you know, personally, psychologically, socially, I mean, I, you know, I became blind when I was five and things were pretty much cooking along until I became a teenager. And then you know, the normal angst of, of those years. And then I lived in little towns where when people turn 16, they all got driver's licenses and all and all got some sort of sort of job. So I didn't get either of those things. So I had a lot of isolation. I, I think that's really when the grief cycle grabbed me in those teen years. But I'm just wondering if for you, I, I didn't, didn't, wasn't offered any. Counseling or therapy. Psychological professional support. Sort that much, much later in life to deal with some things. But I mean, how how how did you feel about all this stuff?

John B. Grimes: Probably the best word to say is scared.

John B. Grimes: But you have to remember that I'm 19.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Right.

John B. Grimes: And that's not really something I understood at the time. Nor would I have let anybody know that.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Sure.

John B. Grimes: And I fooled myself into, you know, not thinking I was scared, and I threw the commission. So it's a Texas commission for the blind. It's. It's been renamed, like, a dozen times since then. So I'm not even sure what the current name for it is, but it's the same. Same group.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, but.

John B. Grimes: They did offer me some counseling, and I don't know if they required it. Maybe they did. I mean, I went, but I just I didn't want to go, so.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I was.

John B. Grimes: Just wasting everybody's time.

Dr. Kirk Adams: All right.

John B. Grimes: So I went a few times and I just wasn't ready. And I, I, you know, I swept it under the rug and I put my head down and plowed through it as best I could.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

John B. Grimes: And I don't recommend that course of action.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Right.

John B. Grimes: I think kind of like you was later. So again, that was 1920. I did go to counseling, probably in my mid 20s, my late, probably like 27, 28, I would say probably almost ten years later.

John B. Grimes: And that helped. That helped a lot. But I wasn't ready to do it until then. Right. And one of the other themes that kind of pokes through in my book is kind of a theme of don't wait. I feel like there are things I mentioned that there are some a lot of things I wasn't ready for and prepared for. And as you said, I would. I have been, but I think if I go back and look at some things, I think I was like, I probably should have admitted that I was scared or I should have asked for some more help, or I should have made some different choices. And I don't even know if I went back and told myself at age 20 to do that. I still wouldn't listen to myself. But you know, because everybody goes through the grieving process at their own pace. It's not a linear path.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Right.

John B. Grimes: And I just part part of what I, I hope the book does and some other writing that I'm trying to do is encourage people just in general life, don't wait for things to change the way you think they will or won't, because oftentimes it doesn't. And now, like, if you're gonna pull a pizza right out of the oven, you should wait for that to cool down.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Because.

John B. Grimes: You know, your mouth's gonna not be happy with you. So it doesn't mean just make knee jerk decisions all the time. But it does mean that there are things where many things in life where waiting doesn't help. And those are some of the lessons that I've taken out of the some of the crazy stories and things that happened with me.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Well, let's talk.

Dr. Kirk Adams: About the title. So destiny is debatable. What are what message are you conveying or what question are you asking? What what are what are you telling us with the title?

John B. Grimes: Well, I think it's kind of up for interpretation, really. I, I think that people tend and at least my experience is that I tend to believe that there's just this inertia in life that once you start moving, you just kind of go that direction. And that would be, you know, equivalent to destiny. You're destined to do this or you're not destined to do that. And so I do think that plays out in some cases in life. And maybe for some people, nothing ever changes in their life. And that's maybe great for them. Does sound kind of boring to me.

Dr. Kirk Adams: But.

John B. Grimes: Certainly not as bumpy as somebody who changes things. So I just think, and I don't like, you know, like, you watch a football game or some sort of sports game and you get towards the end of the year. Their destiny is they control their own destiny. You know, that thing, I just, I mean, I in that regard, everybody controls their own destiny because that just means whatever choices you make is what controls your destiny. And so if the team just keeps winning, well, then of course they control their destiny because, you know. But who just keeps winning, right?

Dr. Kirk Adams: This doesn't.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Happen. Only only a couple.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, right. It's rare.

John B. Grimes: It's more rare than it is the exception rather than the rule. Right. So I just think that that's not the way it's supposed to work. And I think people get sucked into believing that this inertia, this path I'm on or whatever I'm doing is what it's going to be. And I'm here to challenge the notion that especially if it's something you don't like if you're in a job or you're in a situation where you've lost your sight or you're in a hospital bed and this just doesn't look good, then there are options, right? And I hope people understand that.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: The I don't know why the term course. Course correction I'm talking.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So you've been a you're a, you're a successful, thriving person. In conversations we've had about your business career and, and acumen and, Family. Et-cetera. So after after graduating in a mere five years, Texas Tech. What what happened next for you?

John B. Grimes: I went into the family business, which is insurance from my my dad. I'm the. I have a younger brother. And when I got out of school that my dad was in the insurance and the insurance business property and casualty, which is home and auto insurance, life insurance, that kind of stuff. Yeah. And he worked on the corporate side of things. So he worked for you're in Liberty Mutual, right? You know, Liberty Mutual in your area up there.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, yeah.

John B. Grimes: So he worked for the corporate side of that thing, but we, we went into the agency world, which is your brokers, your independent agents for companies like Liberty Mutual and others. And so we did that, and we did that for my and my brother joined us when he got out of school a couple years later for about 18 years and things were going good. There were some major changes in the industry in 2018, and we had a decision whether we were going to basically whether we were going to sell or buy. And we sold.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

John B. Grimes: And since then I've, I've been working for the group that that purchased us, and my dad retired, and my brother has spun off and done something in the insurance space as well.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. So that's what I'm doing. Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: How's the how's the workplace for you? How's accessibility accommodations? That operating and operating that way?

John B. Grimes: Luckily for me, it's always been pretty good. Because I've mostly been self-employed, essentially. So I can you know, call my own shots, so to speak. I don't know if I need it as well. I do, of course need lots of stuff, but I don't have to go through a HR department or, you know, don't have to advocate for myself in that regard because.

Dr. Kirk Adams: I just yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: We talk about, you know, we talk about creating a good fit between the person and the workplace. So you have the opportunity to craft your own good fit with your workplace, which is great.

John B. Grimes: It's great for me. I know it's not great for people that are not in that situation. So yeah, I certainly understand the other side of that. But I, I've, I've been very fortunate to be in that position and continue to be in that position.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay.

John B. Grimes: And the probably the biggest thing for me is not being somebody that that drives legally. I have to throw that in there. I, I, I did drive from the age of 16 to 19, so for almost 14 years. So I do know that. And it's nice.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah.

John B. Grimes: But as somebody that's not driving, probably one of the greatest things that happened to me was Covid, because since Covid, I've been working from home. I just never I never went back. So.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah, it has.

Dr. Kirk Adams: It has it has normalized remote work. And that's a silver lining for people who are blind and visually impaired. Because it it doesn't seem like such a big deal now, when we prefer to work remotely and you know, whenever you do research around the biggest barriers to successful employment for people who are blind, there's always a competition for the number one reason and the number two reason. The number one reason is employer attitudes. The number two reason is transportation. So since you're working in your family business, the employer attitude, things was taken care of.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Was taken.

John B. Grimes: Care of, but I still commuted. I still had to work the work. And now again, I'm in the family business.

Dr. Kirk Adams: It was.

John B. Grimes: It was. It was easier, but still. And the whole time I was actually trying to work remote.

Dr. Kirk Adams: But I.

John B. Grimes: Just couldn't. And I had the ability to make it happen. I just in the line of business we were in, it just wasn't really possible for me to write.

Dr. Kirk Adams: It wasn't part of the norm. Yeah.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Had to be meeting people.

John B. Grimes: And until Covid happened and then it became the norm and it it I've. Yeah, luckily I've never, never moved back. So my, my transportation is like about 40ft each day.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Nice.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Yeah too.

Dr. Kirk Adams: So and.

John B. Grimes: Maybe maybe 60 if I have too much coffee.

Dr. Kirk Adams: There you go. And then you you mentioned crazy stories in the book. So give us, give us one.

John B. Grimes: Gosh. Well, I said legally driving. So you know, I kid about that, sort of because I, I I'm not licensed to drive anymore.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Right.

John B. Grimes: But my roommate in college had a was a big time. Or one of my roommates was a big time car guy, which was great for me because he loved to drive. You know, it's fun for me being around people that love to drive.

Dr. Kirk Adams: It's like, yeah.

John B. Grimes: That's a great match for me. So we would go anywhere and everywhere. I was like, hey, about this. He's like, let's do it. And so one day he had a I think it's called a Firehawk. It's a it's like a it was a 90s year model.

John B. Grimes: It's like a almost like a Corvette, and it was all souped up, and he had all kinds of stuff on it. And there was a old Air Force base called Reese Air Force Base out in near our college. And they had these long runways out there. Yeah. So we took the car out there and I got behind the wheel and hit it up over a hundred miles an hour in the driver's seat.

Dr. Kirk Adams: That sounds great. So when you talk, when you talk about being around people who love to drive, I'll tell you that both of my children, as soon as they turn 16, they were told, go get your driver's license. Your your mom's tired of being the only person who can drive around here. Yes. Yeah. So what's next for you? You're going to launch the book. You're going to be sharing a lot of information, inspiration, food for thought with a lot of people. So what what what did what do you envision the next year looking like after the book launch?

John B. Grimes: Well, yeah. So February 7th is the launch, and I think I've really kind of gotten into a writing groove. I've been writing this for so long, it took me a long time to actually get it done. And I've really learned a lot about writing. And in addition to just mechanics, the ability to craft the story, keep it on track, where to cut things, where to add things. And I think, I think I've developed a pretty good knack for it and realized that I, I think I have at least 1 or 2 more of these in me. Not the same type of thing. This is more of a memoir. This is a timeline, historical timeline of what happened with.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Me.

John B. Grimes: Between about 1998 and 2017. So about 20 or so years time timeline. But a lot of the lessons and things that I've learned from those, I think I've got some spin off things that I'm going to attempt to do. And I also do work. When the meningitis advocacy world we started the foundation in 2025 called shots for meningitis, okay. And it raises awareness and helps people that have survived Meningitis and their accommodations. And so over the next year, I plan to be very much more involved in writing and getting and the meningitis advocacy advocacy space. And it's certainly something that I'm very passionate about, and I can see it becoming a very bigger, very much a bigger part of my my future.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Good. Well, I'd love to have you come back in the fall after the book's been out in the world, and you've been able to sink your teeth into your next project and to think more much more seriously about your potential as an advocate. So I'd love to catch up with you then, but for now, Mr. John B Grimes, author of the forthcoming memoir Destiny, is debatable. How can people get in touch? How can people find the book? I know, I know, I get lovely emails from you. How can people be connected?

John B. Grimes: Yes. Well, probably three main areas. Destiny is debatable. Comm is the book, but there's a lot of words in there. And, you know, how do you spell all that stuff? It's almost as bad as meningitis. So John B Grimes dot  com is probably the fastest way. There's links to all of those places. And I'm also pretty prolific on LinkedIn and do a lot of posting there. So LinkedIn, I'm John B Grimes there. You'll find all of my posts about the book and other things I'm writing about for https://JohnBGrimes.com.

Dr. Kirk Adams: Okay. And for me, Kirk Adams on LinkedIn, I'm on there every day and my website is Doctor Adams Comm. So I would love to connect with anyone who's listening who would like to talk about disability Inclusion, empowerment, accessibility, employment for disabled individuals, advocacy, social justice, any of that good stuff that you can see on my LinkedIn page, please feel free to get in touch and please go to https://JohnBGrimes.com and buy this book and buy another one and share it with a friend. And until next time, thank you so much. We'll catch you later on Podcasts by Doctor Kirk Adams.

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