Living Interfaces, OpenAI Collabs, & Enterprise AI with Josh Payne, CEO of Coframe
Release Date: 09/10/2025
Privacy by Design & Ethical AI with David Joosten, Cofounder of GrowthLoop
Making Sense of Martech
“Zero party data reflects what customers say they want; first party data reveals what they actually do.” – David In this Hot Seat episode, Jacqueline sits down with David Joosten, co-founder of GrowthLoop and coauthor of First-Party Data Activation, to unpack why so many brands are “doing” first-party data yet still serving generic experiences. They dig into the tension between what customers say versus how they behave, and why marketers need to reconcile that gap with experimentation, empathy, and better use of their own data. Discover why embracing AI decisioning and continuous...
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AI’s Report Card, The BFCM Machine, & Why Attribution Sucks
Making Sense of Martech
“92% of enterprises say AI is a priority, and 78% also say they can’t integrate it.” — Juan In this Office Hours episode, Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza unpack the biggest Martech realities of the season: record-breaking BFCM performance and the widening “AI hype gap.” From $10.8 billion in U.S. online spending (69% on mobile) to reports revealing that 95% of marketers want AI personalization but only 2% have delivered it, the duo exposes where Martech optimism meets operational reality. The episode wraps with a philosophical debate on attribution, why...
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Don’t Get Catfished By AI with Brian Minick, COO of ZeroBounce
Making Sense of Martech
“Curiosity is the number one trait I’m looking for when hiring.” — Brian Minick Jacqueline and Brian Minick, COO of ZeroBounce, get practical about AI’s impact on hiring, email deliverability, and Martech operations. They unpack how AI is reshaping hiring, from candidates using copilots during interviews to the ethical implications of automation in recruitment. Brian shares how his gut helped him catch an AI-assisted candidate mid-interview, why curiosity and speed are the real differentiators in a digital-first world, and how he’s balancing innovation with humanity at scale....
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Adios Ohana, AWS Meltdown, & Overcoming Analysis Paralysis
Making Sense of Martech
“You're supposed to be your customer relationship management platform of the era, and you're not listening to your very own customers.” — Jacqueline Freedman Jacqueline and Juan dissect Salesforce’s Dreamforce rebranding of all major products to Agentforce, the erosion of its once-strong Ohana culture, and Benioff’s billionaire behavior. They unpack the AWS outage, explore operational resilience, and talk about how to overcome analysis paralysis. Brought to you by Hightouch On November 13, Hightouch is hosting Has Martech Failed Marketers? featuring Scott Brinker...
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Martech Avengers Assemble with Neha Dadbhawala, Head of Martech at SEEK
Making Sense of Martech
“Marketing engineers are the lovechild of marketers, product managers, and software engineers — they’re the Avengers of your Martech stack.” - Neha Dadbhawala Join Jacqueline and Neha, Head of Martech at SEEK, to unpack how the role of the marketing engineer is reshaping the future of digital transformation. Neha shares her insights on bridging strategy and execution, building operational readiness, and applying systems thinking to deliver scalable marketing outcomes. From the rise of AI to managing legacy tech, Neha reveals what it takes to drive meaningful innovation...
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Stop the Hype: Taylor Swift’s Loyalty Playbook, Zeta & Marigold Merger, and Braze’s AI
Making Sense of Martech
"Don’t be the Taylor Swift of Martech." - Jacqueline Freedman Jacqueline and Juan break down three of the latest Martech moments: Braze’s all-in AI decisioning push, Zeta Global’s acquisition of Marigold, and what Taylor Swift’s marketing playbook reveals about loyalty and fandom. Drawing from recent Martech World Forum events in London and San Francisco, they cut through the hype around AI, vendor economics, and what real enterprise teams are actually doing to make Martech work. Highlights Discover how Taylor Swift’s variant strategy rewrites loyalty and...
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The Need to Ban “Inbox Placement” with Lauren Meyer, CMO of SocketLabs
Making Sense of Martech
"There's a big difference between consent and attention — you still have to earn the attention." - Lauren Meyer Lauren Meyer, CMO of SocketLabs, joins Jacqueline Freedman on The Hot Seat to discuss what marketers get wrong about email. She shares how to earn real engagement, why “inbox placement rate” is a lie, and how to prove email’s value inside your org. A must-listen for anyone in marketing ops, lifecycle, or Martech leadership who wants to make smarter, data-backed email decisions. This episode wouldn’t have been possible without the help of our sponsor Hightouch. ...
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Scaling to Billions: How to Design the Ideal Stack with Natalie Miles Fuerst of Grammarly
Making Sense of Martech
"No one's data is perfect. I think the biggest challenge though ends up being more people, because what often happens is that companies of a certain scale, marketing orgs of a certain scale, oftentimes we start adding on products or new verticals and we hire marketers to be in charge of those specific products or verticals, and they work in these silos and isolation of each other." - Natalie Miles Fuerst In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, we sit down with Natalie Miles, Staff Product Manager for Martech at Grammarly and former Head of Martech at Chime and Credit Karma. She is an...
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WTF is CRM? B2B vs. B2C with Topcon's Karla Vince & Klaviyo's James Fang
Making Sense of Martech
"I think a CRM is not a tool, it's a discipline, it's a system minimization of how we manage relationships across time channels and teams." - Karla Vince In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, we host our first-ever debate to define what a CRM is and if the definition is changing as the line between B2B and B2C blurs. We’re joined by Karla Vince, who leads marketing automation at Topcon Healthcare, and James Fang, Director of Product Marketing at Klaviyo. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the history of CRM, its modern definition, and where...
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From Fashion to AI: Fabletics’ Marketing Edge with Adrian Rohr, VP of Marketing CRM
Making Sense of Martech
"If you empower your team to make their own decisions, they're just more motivated—and that drives great outcomes." - Adrian Rohr In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, we sit down with Adrian Rohr, VP of Marketing CRM at Fabletics, to uncover how one of the world’s leading activewear brands is redefining customer engagement in-house with AI-powered CRM and omnichannel personalization. This conversation is a must-listen for marketing leaders curious about AI orchestration, CRM transformation, and building high-performing in-house teams. Highlights Discover how Fabletics built a...
info_outline“We see the future of digital experiences as living — personalized and self-improving 24/7.” - Josh Payne
In this episode, Jacqueline Freedman puts Josh Payne in The Hot Seat to unpack “living interfaces,” AI-driven experimentation, and what agentic marketing really looks like in practice.
Josh shares lessons from collaborating with OpenAI, why most CRO tests fail, and where generative engine optimization (GEO) is headed next.
We delve into enterprise realities, including privacy and governance, avoiding spaghetti code, and what a “living interface” entails.
Highlights
- Discover how “living interfaces” adapt websites in real time to lift conversion and usability.
- Learn a practical framework for automating ~90% of the CRO workflow with agents.
- Understand when to start with global experiments vs. personalization to reduce data-privacy friction.
- Explore the rise of generative engine optimization (GEO) and why it will rival SEO in influence.
- Adopt guardrails: define measurable evals, keep specs specific, and stay model-agnostic for compliance.
- Hear what enterprises actually need from vendors: context, integration, and disciplined measurement.
Timestamps
03:50 - What “living interfaces” are and how they create real-time, self-improving digital experiences
04:57 - Partnering with OpenAI: visual grounding, UI generation, and early access to models
11:25 - Why most CRO tests fail—and how AI agents flip the economics of experimentation
14:50 - What “agent marketing” means: automating workflows and scaling high-leverage loops
17:45 - Common AI pitfalls and why clear goals, specs, and evals matter
24:20 - Navigating privacy concerns and model choices in enterprise AI
27:30 - How Josh filters the AI noise and stays sharp
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