Making Sense of Martech

Unfiltered takes on the biggest shifts in marketing technology. We spotlight what matters, who’s leading (or lagging), and what’s next. In Martech, clarity is power — and we’re here to deliver it.

Living Interfaces, OpenAI Collabs, & Enterprise AI with Josh Payne, CEO of Coframe 09/10/2025

Living Interfaces, OpenAI Collabs, & Enterprise AI with Josh Payne, CEO of Coframe “We see the future of digital experiences as living — personalized and self-improving 24/7.” - Josh Payne In this episode, Jacqueline Freedman puts Josh Payne in The Hot Seat to unpack “living interfaces,” AI-driven experimentation, and what agentic marketing really looks like in practice. Josh shares lessons from collaborating with OpenAI, why most CRO tests fail, and where generative engine optimization (GEO) is headed next. We delve into enterprise realities, including privacy and governance, avoiding spaghetti code, and what a “living interface” entails. Highlights Discover how “living interfaces” adapt websites in real time to lift conversion and usability. Learn a practical framework for automating ~90% of the CRO workflow with agents. Understand when to start with global experiments vs. personalization to reduce data-privacy friction. Explore the rise of generative engine optimization (GEO) and why it will rival SEO in influence. Adopt guardrails: define measurable evals, keep specs specific, and stay model-agnostic for compliance. Hear what enterprises actually need from vendors: context, integration, and disciplined measurement. Timestamps 03:50 - What “living interfaces” are and how they create real-time, self-improving digital experiences 04:57 - Partnering with OpenAI: visual grounding, UI generation, and early access to models 11:25 - Why most CRO tests fail—and how AI agents flip the economics of experimentation 14:50 - What “agent marketing” means: automating workflows and scaling high-leverage loops 17:45 - Common AI pitfalls and why clear goals, specs, and evals matter 24:20 - Navigating privacy concerns and model choices in enterprise AI 27:30 - How Josh filters the AI noise and stays sharp Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode. /episode/index/show/5f725b22-98b5-4ecb-ab56-fdaabc434e44/id/38126215

Trapped by Tech? Data as an Asset, and Smarter CDP Investments 09/03/2025

Trapped by Tech? Data as an Asset, and Smarter CDP Investments In this episode of Office Hours, Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza unpack the overwhelming success of their podcast launch, share details about the upcoming Martech World Forum London 2025, and dive into AI adoption, vendor dependency, and the evolving world of customer data platforms (CDPs). Highlights Podcast launch success & what’s next: global reach, sponsorship buzz, and better audio quality coming January 2025 Martech World Forum London 2025: key speakers, VIP dinner, and how to network with enterprise leaders Vendor partnerships: the dark side of over-reliance Generative AI’s harsh reality check (only 5% of deployments succeed) The future of CDP pricing models Hot takes: Pepsi’s $57M AI ad vs Wendy’s viral comeback Lessons from the field: failed CDPs, misfired campaigns, and confessions Key Takeaways AI hype vs reality: start with small, measurable pilots. Vendor partnerships should empower, not entrap. Treat customer data like a valuable asset: maintain, enrich, and activate. CDP pricing is shifting toward enriched profiles and behaviour triggers. Fast, authentic engagement often outperforms big-budget AI campaigns Timestamps & Highlights 00:00 - Podcast Launch Success 02:11 - MarTech World Forum London 2025 03:32 - Vendor partnerships: necessary evil or obstacle? 14:46 - Generative AI reality check 24:29 - CDP pricing evolution 32:03 - Hot take: Pepsi's $57M AI campaign vs Wendy's $9 clapback 35:17 - Pawan Verma on customer decisioning 38:03 - Question of the Week 40:51 - Confession Corner Why You Should Listen If you’re an enterprise marketing leader or Martech practitioner, this episode will give you: Insider knowledge on 2025 Martech strategies Real-world AI lessons with measurable ROI Advice on avoiding vendor lock-in A sneak peek at the Martech World Forum 2025 Ways to Connect Subscribe to the podcast: Join the conversation: LinkedIn – | LinkedIn – Register for Martech World Forum 2025: Submit your confession or question for the next episode: /episode/index/show/5f725b22-98b5-4ecb-ab56-fdaabc434e44/id/38070385

Is SMS Dead? Welcoming the RCS Revolution with Eric Miao, CSO of Attentive 08/27/2025

Is SMS Dead? Welcoming the RCS Revolution with Eric Miao, CSO of Attentive “Design thinking isn’t just about aesthetics - it’s about solving the right problems with empathy.” - Eric Miao In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, Jacqueline Freedman sits down with Eric Miao, Chief Strategy Officer at Attentive, to unpack the future of messaging with the rollout of RCS (Rich Communication Services) in the U.S. Together, they explore how RCS is poised to transform mobile messaging into an interactive, commerce-driven channel that merges personalization, AI, and trust at scale. If you’re a marketing leader, mobile strategist, or just curious whether SMS is really dead, this episode will reshape how you think about messaging. Highlights Discover why RCS is being called the “next generation of messaging” and what makes it fundamentally different from SMS. Learn how brands like Spanx are utilizing RCS to achieve substantial increases in engagement and revenue. Understand the role of AI in enabling true one-to-one personalization at scale through messaging. Explore how RCS could disrupt customer service, identity management, and even AdTech as we know it. Hear predictions on adoption hurdles, carrier dynamics, and how marketers can avoid making RCS “the next noisy channel. Timestamps 2:16 – What RCS is and why it matters for marketers 3:22 – Game-changing features: rich media, carousels, and interactive replies 5:39 – How AI and personalization elevate RCS campaigns 7:42 – Case study: Spanx’s 200% revenue lift with RCS 10:34 – Which industries are best positioned for RCS adoption 14:06 – Adoption hurdles: carriers, Google, Apple, and rollout challenges 19:18 – Preventing RCS from becoming “the next noisy channel” 23:22 – Global adoption and identity: privacy, phone numbers, and what endures 28:15 – Navigating privacy regulations, personalization, and zero-party data 38:04 – The future of SMS: fallback, governance, and avoiding bad actors Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions, we may feature you in an upcoming episode. /episode/index/show/5f725b22-98b5-4ecb-ab56-fdaabc434e44/id/37975915

Will AI Replace Your Marketing Department? Former CMO of OfferFit, Jessica Vogol, Weighs In 08/20/2025

Inside Iterable: Exclusive Interview with New CEO Sam Allen 08/20/2025

Inside Iterable: Exclusive Interview with New CEO Sam Allen "The secret is you don't let the old man in." - Sam Allen, quoting Clint Eastwood In his first official interview as CEO of Iterable, Sam Allen joins host Jacqueline Freedman for an unfiltered conversation on leadership, AI, and the future of marketing technology. Drawing on lessons from the Marine Corps and Salesforce, Sam shares his philosophy of servant leadership, why AI should act as a marketer’s co-pilot, and how companies can move beyond “vendor” status to become trusted advisors. He also reveals his strategic vision for Iterable’s future and what CMOs must do to stay relevant in today’s fast-changing Martech landscape. If you’re a marketing leader navigating AI disruption, growth, or organizational change, this episode is for you. Highlights How servant leadership and radical transparency build resilient teams. Why AI should empower marketers as a co-pilot, not a replacement. The strategic vision behind Sam Allen’s move to Iterable. How to win the AI talent war by prioritizing culture. Practical steps to strengthen marketing and sales alignment. Why Martech stack consolidation is key for long-term growth. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction & Guest Welcome 00:43 – Rapid Fire Questions 03:42 – Leadership & Personal Insights from the Marine Corps 05:33 – Transition to CEO of Iterable 09:24 – AI & Innovation at Iterable (Nova) 14:11 – Ethics & the AI Talent War 18:04 – Moving Beyond Vendor Status with Customer Relationships 20:02 – Navigating Budget Constraints 21:07 – Standing Out in a Competitive Market 22:33 – Personal Insights & Martial Arts 23:04 – The Future of Marketing Technology 25:13 – Ethical Considerations in AI 32:31 – Advice for CMOs & Marketing Leaders 37:23 – Podcast Recommendations & Closing Remarks Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions, we may feature you in an upcoming episode. /episode/index/show/5f725b22-98b5-4ecb-ab56-fdaabc434e44/id/37875950

Trouble at Yotpo & Litmus, AI is a Drug, and Analyst Firms' Future 08/20/2025

Trouble at Yotpo & Litmus, AI is a Drug, and Analyst Firms' Future Martech is in upheaval: welcome to your must-listen podcast to understand the current state of the Martech industry. In this Office Hours episode, hosts Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza dig into the corporate shakeups, shifting power dynamics, and AI debates that are reshaping the industry. From Yotpo abruptly shutting down its email arm before the holidays, to Litmus layoffs after acquisition, to Amplitude dethroning Adobe in the latest Forrester Wave, no corner of Martech feels stable. The duo also questions whether analyst firms like Gartner still matter and get "spicy" debating if AI is a powerful copilot or dangerous crutch for marketers. If you're a Martech leader, marketing ops pro, or exec marketing technology bets, this episode gives you the no-BS insights you need to stay ahead. Highlights Why Yotpo's exit and Litmus layoffs signal deeper risks in Martech. How to spot an "overripe Avocado" company and avoid relying on one. What Amplitudes's rise means for Adobe and the future of Analytics. Why analyst firms may be losing relevance in an age of distributed authority. The risks and rewards of AI: augmentation vs. outsourcing your thinking. Timestamps 01:19 - Trouble in Email Land: Yotpo shuts down its email business and Litmus faces layoffs after acquisition. 07:15 - The overripe Avocado Theory: How to spot when tech companies are past their prime. 09:36 - Analytics Shake-Up: Amplitude rises in Forrester's Wave, Adobe loses ground, and the future of analytics suites. 15:11 - Analyst Firms in Question: Gartner's origins, warning influence, and whether traditional authority still matters. 23:50 - The AI Debate: Is GenAI a helpful copilot or a "drug dealer" strategy that erodes critical thinking? 30:21 - Subscriber Q&A: Ben from Teachable asks about AI's impact on future marketing leadership. Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions - we may feature them in an upcoming episode. /episode/index/show/5f725b22-98b5-4ecb-ab56-fdaabc434e44/id/37887615