32. The Connection Between Horse and Human HRV—Why It’s Important
Release Date: 03/12/2025
Connection Therapy
In this episode of the Connection Therapy Podcast, Dr. Brenda Murrow explores how understanding animal behavior—especially in dogs—can deepen our insight into human communication and relationships. Dr. Murrow reflects on her own experience learning French and how it made her more aware of cultural nuances in language—particularly terms of endearment. Something as simple as the word “sweetheart,” which might feel universal, actually varies widely depending on context and culture. This realization led her to consider how observing other species could offer a fresh perspective on human...
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In this episode, Brenda takes a step back to reflect on several of her recent research-based episodes—and how what she’s learned is continuing to shape the way she practices. Revisiting past studies has helped her see just how much of what we do in the therapy room is grounded in awareness, relationship, and presence. Across these episodes, one theme kept surfacing: we’re always in communication, even when nothing is being said. Posture, silence, pacing, eye contact—these all play a role in how connection is built. Reflecting on that has reminded Brenda to slow down and stay attuned to...
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There are so many things that influence a therapy session—and not all of them are spoken. In this episode, Brenda is continuing the exploration into the less obvious dynamics that shape the therapeutic relationship. Encouragement, presence, attunement—they’re all part of the work. But there are also layers we don’t always consciously notice. One of those layers is mimicking. Brenda walks us through the research that supports this—multiple studies showing that when someone is subtly mimicked through facial expressions, posture, or gestures, they often report that the interaction felt...
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In therapy, we often listen closely to what’s being said—but what’s not being said can sometimes offer even more insight. A client may describe their week as “fine” or say they’re “managing,” but their body is heavy, their eyes are downcast, and their facial expressions suggest something else entirely. This kind of misalignment—between verbal language and nonverbal signals—isn’t uncommon. In today’s episode, Brenda explores what’s happening when someone’s internal emotional state doesn’t match how they present on the outside. Brenda brings in the foundational work...
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Brenda has often shrugged off the question, “Can horses really smell fear?” But in this episode, she takes a closer look—and the research is fascinating. When someone walks into their first equine session feeling nervous, it’s not just body language the horse is picking up on. There’s now scientific evidence that animals, including horses, can detect chemosignals—part of the odors released through human sweat that reflect emotional states like fear or calm. One study Brenda shares involves a group of 40 retrievers exposed to human body odor samples. The dogs responded differently...
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By exploring the latest research on how our nervous systems interact—whether between humans or across species—Brenda aims to provide therapists with the knowledge to deepen their connections with clients and improve therapeutic outcomes. In recent podcast episodes, Brenda has explored how physiological interactions, both between humans and animals, can impact therapeutic outcomes. Through research on heart rate variability (HRV) and the autonomic nervous system, she reveals new ways therapists can enhance client connections and regulation during therapy. Earlier episodes laid the...
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Mental and physical health don’t operate in isolation; they influence each other in profound ways. Stress, anxiety, and emotional distress often manifest physically, whether through muscle tension, changes in posture, or even pupil dilation. But what do we do with this information as therapists? Understanding these real-time physical responses can provide deeper insight into a client’s emotional state and the effectiveness of our interventions. Eye movements, pupil dilation, and facial expressions offer powerful clues about what’s happening internally. Research from nonverbal...
info_outlineIn this episode, Brenda dives into two studies about heart rate variability (HRV) in horses and humans, and how they can inform therapy practices. These studies reveal some surprising similarities between our nervous systems and those of horses, giving us new ways to think about improving therapeutic approaches.
The first study, published in 2011 by Drs. Gerke, Baldwin, and Schiltz, measured HRV in horses during equine-assisted therapy. The findings showed that HRV in horses follows the same patterns as in humans, confirming that both species share similar nervous system responses. This discovery opened avenues for understanding how measuring HRV in humans and horses during equine-assisted services could illuminate ways to enhance our approaches.
The second study focused on how eye temperature in horses can indicate stress. When horses experience stress, their eye temperature rises, reflecting changes in their nervous systems. This provides another valuable tool for understanding nervous system activation and emotional responses, especially in high-stress situations.
For mental health clinicians, these studies highlight the importance of recognizing physical cues, like eye contact that can also provide signals about nervous system regulation, to better understand a patient’s emotional state. Being able to identify when a patient’s nervous system is activated helps us time our interventions more effectively. If we notice stress or tension, we can help the patient regulate before diving into deeper therapeutic work, making our approach more effective and responsive.
As therapy continues to evolve, understanding these subtle signs will help clinicians create more effective interventions by aligning with the patient’s current emotional and physical needs.
References:
Evans, L., Cameron-Whytock, H., & Ijichi, C. (2024). Eye understand: Physiological measures as novel predictors of adaptive learning in horses. Applied Animal Behaviour Science, 271, 1–10. https://doi-org.pgi.idm.oclc.org/10.1016/j.applanim.2023.106152
Gehrke, E. K., Baldwin, A., & Schiltz, P. M. (2011). Heart Rate Variability in Horses Engaged in Equine-Assisted Activities. Journal of Equine Veterinary Science, 31(2), 78–84. https://doi-org.pgi.idm.oclc.org/10.1016/j.jevs.2010.12.007
Panksepp, J. (2009). Brain emotional systems and qualities of mental life: From animal models of affect to implications for psychotherapeutics. In D. Fosha, D. J., Siegel, & M. F. Solomon (Eds.), The healing power of emotion: Affective neuroscience, development & clinical practice (pp. 1-26). New York, NY: Norton.
Porges, S. W. (2009). Reciprocal influences between body and brain in the perception and expression of affect: A Polyvagal perspective. In D. Fosha, D. J., Siegel, & M. F. Solomon, M. (Eds.), The healing power of emotion: Affective neuroscience, development & clinical practice (pp. 27-54). New York, NY: Norton.