Episode 6: The Issues in Your Tissues - Somatic Awareness and Healing (with Jenna Pacelli)
Release Date: 01/31/2024
Episode 16: Correlation is Not a Conclusion (Interview with Professor Eric Turkheimer)
The Face of the Deep
In this episode I chat with Professor Eric Turkheimer at the University of Virginia about why the fact that "everything is heritable" doesn't actually mean very much; why the concept of "heritability" itself might just be the most misunderstood term in science; how the field of behavior genetics continues to struggle to disentangle its research priorities and methodological assumptions from the segregationist and eugenic ideologies that shaped its early development; and why humans have a “genetic essentialism” cognitive bias that primes us to oversimplify very complex realities of human...
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Episode 15 - The Mismeasure of Meaning: Nature, Nurture, and Nuance
The Face of the Deep
In this episode, I explain my concerns and criticisms of the claim that "everything is genetic." I explain both why I once found the hereditarian literature very persuasive, as well as the philosophical and epistemological reasons I am no longer willing to agree that the case can be considered closed. I've listed a few resources that might be useful for further reading below. Of course I don't agree with every single thing each of these authors argues either—and some of them even contradict one another on various details. But as a whole, they have greatly informed my thinking on this...
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Episode 14: "Cluster B" Kids with Joshua Slocum
The Face of the Deep
This week I sat down with Joshua Slocum, co-host of the "Disaffected" podcast. I reached out to him to discuss the convergence of "Cluster B" pathology and the flattering mimicry of AI, as documented in one of his recent episodes (linked below.) We wound up discussing all kinds of things, including a bit of the AI question as well as the heritability (or lack thereof) of homosexuality, the consequences of our obnoxious Marxist youth, what compels us to "do the work" when our parents wouldn't, and why telling ourselves the truth about the past and who we really are is the most important thing...
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Episode 13: Strained and Estranged - The Mother/Daughter Rupture
The Face of the Deep
In this episode of Face of the Deep, I talk a bit about my own difficult relationship with my mom, and reflect on some themes that have come up in my groups and with clients recently about mother-daughter ruptures and how we can think about them and potentially heal them. If you'd like to join my community for more conversations like this, you can find more information at Join the Collective Unconscious:
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Episode 12: Reclaim Your Inner Outlaw with Jungian Analyst Lisa Marchiano
The Face of the Deep
In this episode I sit down with the brilliant Lisa Marchiano, an award-winning author, podcaster, and certified Jungian analyst. I found Lisa through the depth-psychology podcast “This Jungian Life,” from which I have learned so much, and I look forward to listening to each week. I also wanted to talk to Lisa specifically because of how her work draws on the wisdom of fairy tales to help women connect more deeply with themselves—a theme that is at the center of her amazing new book, “The Vital Spark: Reclaim Your Outlaw Energies and Find Your Feminine Fire.” In this conversation we...
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Episode 11: The Trouble With Twin Studies - Does DNA Really Make Us Who We Are? (with Jay Joseph)
The Face of the Deep
In this episode, I sit down with clinical psychologist Dr. Jay Joseph to discuss the issue of genetic research in IQ, personality, and psychiatric disorders—particularly in the context of the thirtieth anniversary of the publication of "The Bell Curve." While twin studies are exalted by behavioral geneticists as the gold standard research that definitively settles the so-called nature-nurture debate, our conversation explores a variety of problems with such claims. Dr. Joseph offers a strong critique of twin study methodologies and assumptions, and urges a very serious and thoughtful...
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Episode 10: Introduction to My New Book, "Truth Be Told"
The Face of the Deep
You can order my e-book "Truth Be Told" directly for immediate download at To order the audio book, you can do so via For more information or to join my mailing list, please visit: My ebooks: Join my membership community (courses, group coaching, 1:1 connections and messaging, and more):
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Episode 9: The Seduction of Certainty
The Face of the Deep
This is an excerpt of my new e-book, "Truth Be Told." For more information about Iain McGilchrist, you can visit his website here: My advisor Steve Hanson's book on ideological clarity can be found here: To pre-order my e-book for electronic delivery when it is released July 1, you can visit: For more updates and information and to join my mailing list to stay in the loop, visit My ebooks: https://jenhowk.gumroad.com Join my membership community (courses, group coaching, 1:1 connections and messaging, and more):
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Episode 8: Gone Girl - Perfectionism, Shame, and the Binge-Restrict Cycle in the Plant-Based World
The Face of the Deep
This episode is about how in too many ways, the plant-based world is just another face of diet culture, and how it encourages (and monetizes) the binge-restrict cycle just like everyone else does. I talk about my own lifelong experiences of weight gain and loss and discuss how a singular emphasis on dietary "compliance" misses the bigger picture for those of us who have struggled with compulsive eating for our entire lives, and therefore keeps us hooked in to that endless cycle and all of the self-loathing and self-suppression that comes along with it. 0:27: Acknowledging the dangers of...
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Episode 7: Childhood Trauma is Like Learning to Drive
The Face of the Deep
This episode discusses Episode 6 (an interview with therapist and somatic experiencing practitioner Jenna Pacelli) in more depth, and also explores my current conceptualization of developmental trauma and how its lingering influence can shape our adult lives (and what to do about it, or at least a few ideas.) -- My ebooks: Join my membership community (courses, group coaching, 1:1 connections and messaging, and more):
info_outlineIn this episode, I sit down with Jenna Pacelli, a licensed marriage and family therapist and Somatic Experiencing Practitioner for a rapid-fire discussion on a variety of topics and perspectives including: her background in wilderness therapy, early developmental trauma vs. "shock" trauma and what distinguishes them, how and why early trauma can linger in the body, how individuals can begin experimenting with a more embodied practice and approach (and also what doesn't work), the sorry state of therapy on social media, polar bears, and lots of other things.
Resources mentioned: Peter Levine, "In an Unspoken Voice:" https://www.amazon.com/Unspoken-Voice-Releases-Restores-Goodness/dp/1556439431
Alice Miller, "The Drama of the Gifted Child:" https://www.amazon.com/Drama-Gifted-Child-Search-Revised/dp/0465016901
The polar bear video we discuss (10:50): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhyuZlp2j8U
To learn more about or to connect with Jenna, here are some places you can find her: www.jennapacelli.com
jennapacelli.substack.com
instagram.com/jennapacelli
Timestamps:
0:48: Jenna's background and introduction.
5:26: Understanding trauma and its impact on individuals, with a focus on a somatic approach to healing.
10:35: Understanding predictable defensive responses in animals is crucial to preventing trauma symptoms.
15:11: Understanding trauma responses and resilience based on individual experiences and childhood upbringing.
19:54: Impact of early experiences on nervous system memory and intergenerational trauma.
24:52: The importance of distinguishing coping skills from actual treatment for regulation and healing.
30:05: The emergence of addictive strategies in response to intolerable environments, leading to external regulation of the nervous system.
35:15: Unconscious parental behavior may lead to using children to fulfill unmet needs, which can be perceived as love but has long-term effects.
40:03: Discussion on overcoming dissociation through trauma-informed yoga and body exploration.
45:11: Inconsistent advice in the wellness industry is leading to confusion and lack of progress in personal development.
50:28: Understanding the impact of dissociation and adaptive nervous system responses on individuals.
My ebooks: https://jenhowk.gumroad.com
Join my membership community (courses, group coaching, 1:1 connections and messaging, and more): https://collective.jenhowk.com