CapYear Cast - Katy Hines, PA-C

Katy Hines, MBA, MS, PA-C joins the CapYear Cast today for a deep dive into the ins and outs of PA school, and she talks about her journey toward choosing the PA path. Katy is not only a Physician Assistant, but she is also an educator, and she shares her thoughts on the process of selecting, applying, and attending PA school. There are more branches on that decision tree than you would assume, so Katy was kind enough to create an awesome (and free!) template to find and track your application to PA school. The link is below. If you're thinking of applying to PA school now or later, you're sure to find some takeaways in this conversation.

Link to the template (open in Google Sheets and create your own copy to edit):

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/10FTLYdDYHFsiambn3Ig9JiJS-UuSrKGV/

Link to PA school database: https://paeaonline.org/our-programs

List of ARC-PA accredited programs: https://www.arc-pa.org/accreditation/accredited-programs/

Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates!

Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on https://capyear.co/ to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. 

Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd.

Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today!  https://jobs.capyear.co/

For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at [email protected]

https://capyear.co/

https://jobs.capyear.co/

Transcript below:

John: Hi, and welcome back to the CapYear Cast. I'm your host, John Walkup, and today we're joined by Katie Hines. She's a surgical physician assistant, and she's a director of an advanced practice at an academic medical center, and she's also a strategic advisor and lead educator here at CapYear. Katie, welcome to the CapYear Cast.

Katy: Thank you John. I'm happy to be here.

John: Me too. So let's get started. Today we're going to be talking about PA school - physician assistant school. Why don't we just open it up by talking about PA school in general?

Katy: Sure, that'd be great. So nationally, at least in 2021, there are about 287 physician assistant programs across the nation, and we're going to take a deep dive today into what should a potential physician assistant student really be looking for in these programs.

There are so many. How do we possibly choose? PA school is very rigorous. I just want to put that out there. It's a heck of a lot of fun. You're going to learn a lot. You're going to set yourself up to be a very successful health care clinician, but it is rigorous! It is very rigorous, and most PA programs are actually modeled after medical school.

There is a didactic portion where you're in the classroom, you're learning all the things, you're taking courses, and then there's also going to be a clinical portion where you're out and about learning about different disciplines, working in different healthcare settings and getting all those tools and skills that you need to be a physician assistant when you graduate from school.

So 287 programs. Rigorous. There's a didactic component as well as a clinical component.

John:  You are a PA. Walk us through your mindset as you were picking a PA school and your thinking about being a physician assistant as a career. What was that all about?

Katy: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking. My journey was really unique. I always thought I was going to be a doctor. That was it, I was going to be a doctor, period. No one would convince me over here otherwise. So I spent most of my college career walking that road and, thankfully, taking courses that overlap with what a physician assistant also needs to take.

Somewhere going into my last year of college, my now husband but boyfriend at the time was diagnosed with cancer, and he spent his first couple of rounds of chemotherapy at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore. And that was where I first encountered a physician assistant who took care of my husband back then.

And I thought, “Wow, who is this amazing healthcare provider?” She started telling me more about herself: “I'm a physician assistant, and here are the things I can do, etc., etc...” So I pivoted that year from wanting to go to medical school, to going to PA school and I had to really quickly learn, oh my goodness, what is PA school all about?

What does it mean to be in this profession? I spent that summer on the PAEA website, which we'll talk about in a minute, looking at all the different (287, you know, probably less back then) PA schools across this nation and I started narrowing down what was most important to me.

I knew I wanted to be local to my family. I knew that I wanted to be in a classroom, possibly alongside medical students. I knew that I wanted to be in a reputable program. I wanted to be in one that had a high pass rate on the national certification exam we take and one that had a great support community from its professors.

So did they care about culture at their school? Did they care about student well-being? Did they have resources for students that might be struggling? And so, knowing what I was looking for helped guide my path to finding the right school. After I narrowed it down to 10ish schools, I called my dad and said, “We're going on a road trip! We are going road tripping, rhis is going to be great!” And we quite literally went to every open house, or we just showed up on their front door, and we learned about the programs. We got tours around the buildings. We got to interact with students that were even in their classroom at the time. We got to meet some of the leadership of the PA program.

And I have to say there's something about a feel or a vibe that you get when you step on a campus of some sort. So one of the pearls that I want to be a takeaway today is that you have to immerse yourself in what you might be getting into with any PA program. So get out there, tour around. Physically go find tudents that are either recent graduates or are actually sitting there on campus that day and talk to them. What do they like most about the program? What do they wish they would've done differently? What's one thing the program is lacking or could have an opportunity to improve upon? Firsthand experience is a great way to really narrow down PA schools, and that's what I did.

When I found myself in Washington, DC at George Washington University, I thought, “Wow, this is a hop, skip, and a jump from Baltimore, but it's far enough away that I don't have to see my parents all the time. I love the hustle and bustle of the city.” It felt great. Like I could take the metro in.

There was a lot going on around me, and for me, that was important. When I walked into, the classroom, I noticed that they do big sessions with all the students in the learning environment together. And I loved that. We even had classes alongside the medical students, and I thought, heck, we're working with doctors, that is the care team: nurses, doctors, advanced practice, and multi, multi-disciplines.

To get to know them early on and understand the dynamic between a doctor and a physician assistant was really important to me, so I knew GW was going to be my school. Now my friend over here who lives down the street, she was like, “Oh, you won't catch me dead in a city like that. No way.”

She said, “I think I'll stay a little bit more out in the rural towns where we have small groups that work through case studies during our didactic portion. And we only have rotation sites available in my own little hometown.”

So I would encourage you to decide what is most important to you, and I would love for us to roll into what are 15 things to consider when you're looking for a PA program, but it really comes down to a very personal choice. But then you have to have backup plans. One school might not be your golden ticket, so you want to have a couple in line that you really love.

John: Well, so let me ask you, before we get into how to choose a school, because it sounds like there's a myriad of options out there, and even once you've gone through the options, there's a subset of options you're going to have to parse through as well.

But it sounds to me, and if you could please describe this, what's the difference between, the med school application process and the PA school application process? For students who are in there maybe their second or third year of undergraduate and they're looking at this as the next step, the application process can be very, very different, and I wonder if you could just touch on that for a moment.

Katy: Certainly. And I'd love to invite Dr. Guttman at some point to really help us understand the medical school application. But there are some things that overlap that we need to be mindful of. So for one you need to, in your undergraduate year, you really need to be thinking about what coursework you are taking as an undergraduate.

You've got to have certain prerequisites to be able to get into either medical school or PA school, basic sciences, anatomy and physiology, statistics, and things of that nature. So you want to be very, you want to know early on what your top medical or PA school choices might be, maybe five or 10 of them, and see what coursework is going to be required as a prerequisite for admission. Understanding coursework is very important.

Another thing that overlaps between medical school and PA school is that you're going to need to fill out the application, right? And typically, on there, in addition to what coursework you have taken, are patient care hours or patient experience hours.

They want to know that you have been out and about either shadowing, volunteering, or having a paid position working with patients. And some schools usually mandate an hour requirement. For example, you need 500 direct patient care, hands-on, hours to even be able to apply to our school. So coursework and patient care hours are important.

And then you're going to need to, at some point, write a personal statement. A personal statement is why do you want to come to medical school? Why do you want to come to physician assistant school? Tell us why, in a capped amount of words and in a capped amount of length. You really can draw so much from your patient care experiences, stories that inspired you or made you feel sad, or how you watched a healthcare provider overcome a really challenging patient situation. These are all things you can pull wisdom from and bring into your personal essay.

And then, of course that brings us, in addition to our course requirements, our patient care hours, our experience statement that we have to write about, you're going to have to do an interview at some point. A face-to-face or virtual interview. And so you really want to be prepared to answer questions. They might be ethical in nature, they might be morals based. They might be, “Hey, you have a patient that's crashing in your emergency room. What are your next steps?” So preparing for an interview is the fourth item that overlaps between submitting for medical school and submitting for PA school. And then, we can tap Dr. Guttman to get into some of the nuances of the medical school application.

John: Right. Well, I'm glad you mentioned patient hours because that is what we are all about at CapYear, and it's a cornerstone of any application.

Katie, when you're looking to whittle down the numerous options for a PA program, what are some of the things that you should be looking for, and how can you keep your search organized?

Katy: Great question. So, a few things, and I would love to offer the listeners of this podcast, a free template that CapYear put together to keep track of just what you said. What schools am I looking at? What are their requirements? What do I love, etc, etc, etc.

So, I've got 15 things to consider. This is an extensive list, but you have to be thinking about it.

First and foremost, where would you go to even start the process? There is an online platform called PAEAonline.org – the Physician Assistant Education Association, that's what it stands for. Once you get onto their site, you can browse by a map, or you can browse by a list of all of those 287 schools. Hover over a school, and it'll give you an added glance shot as to what they require to get in. Or you can click a button that will direct you straight to their website, and that is where you get into the nitty-gritty. What GPA do you have to have? What are those courses? What are those patient care hour requirements? When are the interviews? What are the deadlines for applying to this school?So PAEAonline.org is the first place you want to look.

What should you be looking for? All right. 15 items. Location. Do you want to be in-state or out of state? There are price differences with that. Do you want to be near your family? Do you want other support systems? What kind of social environment do you want? Are there grocery stores nearby? Is there a bowling alley or a movie theater? Because god knows you're going to need some social events to get your mind out of that rigorous curriculum and have a little bit of fun. Do you want to be near mountains, oceans, parks?

Second, what's the size of the school? Do you want to be with 15 people or do you want to be with 50 people? Some people need a lot smaller class size for their learning style. So knowing your learning style, what size class do you want?

Length of the program. They can run anywhere from about 24 to 27 months, all the way up to three years. A PA program can run the gamut of that. So how long do you want to be in school for?

Next, the curriculum. You're going to find PA programs that are in-person. You're going to find some that are all online. You're going to find some that are a hybrid, some that require you to be on campus, and some that don't care if you step foot on their campus. And so you need to figure out the What does the curriculum look like in terms of what they're expecting from their students To that end, do they offer things like skills labs, simulation labs, cadaver labs?

Do you want to be digging in a cadaver to learn? Is that your style, or do you not care? Could you do that virtually? So again, things to consider with the curriculum.

Let's talk now about the fifth thing, clinical rotation. Are the sites set up for you, or do you have to go find your own sites? I've come across some horror stories lately where the student has been required to find their own clinical sites during the year, and that can be a painful process. So ask if they set those up for you or not. Furthermore, when you get placed perhaps in a different state, are they going to offer you living barracks? So do you need to find living, or are they going to be finding it for you? Are you paying for it? Is your school paying for it? All things to consider with clinical rotations.

All right, next, is cost. So you should be thinking about this as an investment. However, that doesn't negate the fact that a program can be very, very expensive, and more than likely, you're carrying some undergraduate loans as it is so you want to be thinking about the cost. Now there are always, you know, assistance and loan options available. There can also be veterans benefits and scholarships. So that's something to keep in the back of your mind.

The next two things are important. So is your program accredited by the ARCPA? That’s the accreditation council for PA programs, I would definitely highly recommend finding a program that's accredited.

 The next thing is the percent that graduates. So if a school has a high percentage of student graduation, that would demonstrate that they've got a proven track record of successful students. That would be one I would have my eye on the PANCE rate. The PANCE is the national certification exam for PAs that you take when you are done school.

The PANCE rate at any given program is a reflection of how well they're preparing their students, so take a look at that. If they don't have a high PANCE rate, you might want to wonder what's going on with the program.

Next admission requirements. We talked about this at the outset, but every school has slightly different expectations aside from the very basics. You need to be on their websites looking at exactly what is required of, let's say, GW versus the University of Maryland.

The next thing is the program's mission and culture. What is that learning environment like? Do they promote student well-being? Do they have counselors? Do they have a beautiful library you can go sit in if you just need to study? I think the program, mission, and culture, short of looking at their website, visiting like we talked about, and talking with students.

Next, support services. The coursework is very rigorous. It's a rigorous 24-months to three years. So, how are they going to help their students through it and the family members? I will tell you what, I don't know who you might be living with at the time during PA school, and it might just be yourself, or you might have a roommate, but the demands that get placed on them from the stress you may or may not bring home may mandate support services for them as well. So, does the program have that for other family or friends?

Equipment and technology. Is there access to study areas? We talked about a library and simulation centers. Is there a lab to go work in? What kind of IT equipment do they have? Are you buying your own laptop? Are they providing it for you? These are things you want to be thinking about as well.

The last piece of this is graduate support. So you're about to graduate PA school, is your program helping you? How do you get your first job? How am I going to write my resume? How am I going to go find my first job, interview for my first job, decide on my first job? How am I going to repay my loans? How am I going to negotiate my first contract?

So 15 things: Location, size, length of program, curriculum, clinical rotations, cost, accreditation, graduate pass rate, admission requirements, program mission and culture, support services, opportunities to excel, equipment, tech, and graduate support.

John: I love it, Katie. That's awesome, and we're going to have a link to this because this is quite a list. I imagine that if you're not tracking all of these things, you don't want any one of them to fall through the crack. But I have a curveball question for you. You said a couple of things that got me thinking, and I'm curious: PA school as a second career. If you're considering becoming a PA as a second career, A) is it possible, and B) what sort of considerations would you place more weight on?

Katy: Yeah, fabulous question. So we call this the non-traditional route. Where you may have decided on a career change, or you've entered into the PA realm later in life. So what do we need to place emphasis on? You won't get any passes in terms of needing to meet the requirements.

And I have to say, this is where CapYear comes in. They are going to help you meet the two fundamental, top requirements. Those are getting your patient care hours and getting application support for those personal statements, describing your experiences, et cetera.

CapYear’s going to be able to bring that home for you in just one short year, which is amazing. To acquire the amount of patient care hours that most of these programs need you to have can take years. I'm talking about working as an emergency medical technician for 2, 3, 4 years. And so, you know, CapYear’s goal is to help you get that taken care of in one fell swoop over the course of a year.

So the patient care hours, the application support, and then the third thing is, you're going to meet those curriculum requirements. So being able to get through some of those classes at a community college or wherever you would get credit for those would be really important.

John: Interesting. Now, I know we're running low on time, so I want to wrap this up. You know, we talked about patient care hours and for a lot of folks that's a bit of a touchy subject. Some are really nervous about venturing out there without years of experience and a diploma and a degree in their hand.

Katie, can you tell us about some of your first patient care hours and how you felt? Any pearls of wisdom that you might have for our audience?

Katy: Oh yes, definitely. My very first experience was my father saying, “Okay, you think you might want to go to medical school? Let's go up to Howard County General Hospital over there in here at Howard County, Maryland.”

My dad sells teddy bears. He sells teddy bears for a living. It's like his great joy. He sells stuffed animals, and so he had been selling to their gift shop. He walked me right up there to the volunteer office. That is a great place to start, at a volunteer office of any healthcare organization. I'm talking about even free healthcare clinics. They need help desperately. My first thing was actually as a physical therapy aid. So, it might not be shadowing a doctor or a PA. It might be shadowing all of these ancillary healthcare team members that also have great value in the patient care experience.

So, I was with a physical therapy aid in my very first encounter. We were working with a 13-year-old burn victim from a car accident, and this physical therapy aid had to peel the skin off this poor 13-year-old's face delicately, and that 13-year-old looked at both of us in our eyes with a huge smile, even though she was in so much pain.

And she said, “Thank you. Thank you for what you're doing for me right now,” and that memory has stuck with me. That was on my personal statement that was put out in my interviews, and I have written multiple essays about that when asked, “What stuck out in your mind?” So, as you're going through it, keep your mind open to patient care hours of any variety.

It can be with a physical therapist or a pharmacist. It can be with a nurse, it can be with a nurse practitioner. It can be with a speech-language therapist, teaching people how to talk. It's about getting the interaction with the patient and seeing what that is like and then keeping a journal. You need to keep a journal.

What stuck out to you at the end of each of your day? What was memorable? What would you have done differently? Trust me. That will come in handy later when you're writing that essay and preparing for your interviews.

John: That's awesome stuff. Katie Hines, thank you very much.

Katie Hines, she's a surgical physician assistant and the director of advanced practice at a very large and well-known academic medical center. She's also the strategic advisor and lead educator here at CapYear. Katie, thank you again for your time and we'll see you next time on the CapYear Cast.

Katy: Great. Thank you, John. Thank you CapYear.