CapYear Cast
Join us as we talk about professional medical careers and topics! Our episodes focus on the path to medical (MD) and physician associate (PA) school, gaining and learning from hands-on patient experience, and understanding expectations on the partner/provider side. We speak with some of the smartest people in the room regarding medical/PA school admissions, patient-facing staffing, and current trends in the field, so tune in today! https://capyear.co/ About CapYear: CapYear is a program for the next generation of medical leaders. CapYear offers college graduates patient-facing roles in clinical settings, professional development, and support with their application to graduate medical programs. For graduates, we provide professional training and development to help you be ready for when you start your clinical position. We provide ongoing training and extra support during your clinical experience. Our admissions experts also help support your application to graduate medical programs. For providers, CapYear reduces churn, so you spend less time and money hiring and supporting your clinical staff. We proactively source applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work! https://jobs.capyear.co/ For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at [email protected]
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Land a Job as a surgical medical assistant
12/01/2023
Land a Job as a surgical medical assistant
Today on CapYear cast, we speak with Deanna Codling, Director of the Department of Surgery at Lifebridge Health in Baltimore. She shares her perspective on the role of a medical assistant in the Department of Surgery, how to leverage the position to advance your career goals as a prehealth student, and how to land the job. Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on https://capyear.co/ to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus, you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! https://jobs.capyear.co/ For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at [email protected] https://capyear.co/ Transcript: Hi, everyone, and welcome to the next edition of the CapYear Cast. My name is R. T. Arnold, and with us today is Deanna Codling, Director of the Department of Surgery of LifeBridge Health here in Baltimore. Deanna, welcome to the CapYear Cast. Thanks for having me. You have been a great advocate of hiring pre health students into clinical positions. Most of the people who listen to our podcast are either pre health students or advisors. And we'd love to start a little bit by understanding in the department of surgery, what are the roles that pre health students tend to play? So I have to start by just saying, what we do in a Department of Surgery and ambulatory setting. So 1 role in our department is not touching just 1 item. So our candidates that come through our department have an opportunity to do multiple things that can range from scheduling an appointment and taking the patient back doing the basic vital signs. It can go on to doing education with a patient because we have a lot of education pathways for our patients prior to surgery. It could also mean going on the back end and calling patients after surgery and having a conversation with them. You end up doing a little bit of patient navigation, a little bit of clerical work, and then you have these wonderful one on one relationships with the providers that allow you to really adjust what you do to their nuances, and so they have a lot of opportunity in that regard. Can you tell us a little bit more about that sort of the one on one relationship that starts to get established with the providers Sure so all of our M. A. S. or M. A. A. S. will work with usually a subset of providers. So whether that is our general surgeons with some of the specialists that go with that that specialty. So we have thoracic surgery and colorectal surgery. So you were working directly with that doc. You may be doing their intake of new patients. And so you have to make sure you get those records. And so they're going to be working with you back and forth and saying, Hey, did you get, for instance, a colonoscopy result? Okay. I did, but did you make sure you got. the last two because of whatever. So you get to have that one on one interaction with your docs and a lot of times when you show interest they'll tell you why. Why is that important to seeing a new patient and understanding what's going on with them and their diagnosis and sequelae. So it sounds like there's a lot of opportunity to learn from the physicians directly in the in your department. You take the opportunity. Everything is about initiative here. Everything is about initiative. It's being given an opportunity to have that interaction and then you taking the step to take the initiative to ask for it. Nobody's going to force you to do any of those things, but the opportunity is definitely there. And if you want to take it, it's there for you. And what about with the patients? What's the typical sort of involvement or engagement that pre health students that you've hired have with the patients? So I've seen some great interactions with our pre health students and our patients. One being that they just, they kind of understand some of what's going on with the patient because of the studies that they've done in the past. So when a patient calls with a complaint and they need to just know, is this bad enough for me to go to the ER or not, instead of just saying, go to the ER, I don't have a provider. When they answer the phone, they'll say, No, that sounds like that's serious. It involves blood. It involves pain, you know, helping the patient feel as though you have a little bit of context, even if you haven't continued your studies. And then to the point where some of our patients, because they've been long term patients, when they understand the pathway that these Prius students are on, they get very interested and kind of form these relationships with our employees to kind of cheer them on. Because they know that they're taking the initiative to take that next step in their lives. That's amazing. I mean, it sounds like there's a really, like, a great opportunity to work with both patients and providers. What has your experience been in terms of pre health students getting up to speed to be able to participate as a real member of the care team? Healthcare is not easy, but I will keep using the same words over and over again, which is going to be initiative when you come in the door. If you have no experience at all, you've never done a health clinic. You're not really sure how to do blood pressure. We have a pathway that you follow to make sure you learn all those skills are manager in our office for our main office is a nurse. She understands how to walk through what's it. the appropriate way of taking the blood pressure, but also what are the numbers that you need to alert a provider about. So you feel really confident by the time you get through that training process that you know what you should be doing, whether it's for an adult or a pediatric patient, because we have pediatric surgery as well. So all of that is protocolized. We understand how to get you from coming in the door with just amazing initiative and, and pep to being able to say, I can do my job from day to day. So that process is there to make sure that you have that opportunity to learn. All the pieces of the job. And then we do a lot of feedback mechanisms. So if you feel like you didn't capture something, there is opportunity to go back and review it again. So tell me a little bit. So this sounds like an amazing clinical experience, you know, to work at life bridge in your department. So when pre health students are applying to positions and you, you know, a resume comes across your desk, you're sort of making a decision as to whether or not they You know what, what is it on their resume that really catches your attention that makes you want to pick up the phone and set up an initial interview with them. So to be completely honest with a resume, it's going to be somebody who is taking that next step in their career. There's not one because these are entry level jobs. I'm not looking for you to come with a whole lot of experience, but if you did have that opportunity, like I mentioned before, to help with the COVID clinic, giving shots. Or you had an opportunity to do some kind of a health fair for your, your religious organization or for a community fair or something like that. Put that information on there. Even if it's a volunteer opportunity that tells me that you are clearly channeling your interest into this field. So little tidbits like that, it doesn't have to be that you worked in anything specific or you did a intern summer internship at a doctor's office. I want to see that your interests truly lie in this. And it's not just an opportunity to get a higher level pain. Entry level job. I want to see that you're truly interested. That's it. And then what about in the interview? So when someone's sitting across from you, what kind of questions can they expect and what should they be ready for? Every candidate that comes in the door, I feel like should at least have logged on to LifeJobs or our website and know something about Sinai Hospital, Northwest Hospital, Carroll Hospital, or just know that we have all those hospitals. So show, again, interest in the situation. You don't have to know about me. Am I on the website? Yes, you could find me on there, but just log on and say, Hey, I see that you have a surgical residency. How would I be involved in that? Bring up some tidbit about that organization. We are in an age where every, you know, even if it's a small doctor's office, you may get involved with, they probably have some kind of a website to help you know, this is a three doctor practice versus a one doctor practice. Come with that information. So that you did a little bit of research. Once you're sitting in front of me, Show that you want to be here. Say, I'm, you know, I'm excited to have this opportunity. Be able to tell me a reason for wanting to be a health mediated student. Like, why do you want to take the path to medical school or PA school or whatever your next step is? And have a great answer. As a PA myself, I want to hear that you're doing this not for dollars, but for patients, right? So I want to hear your story. I want to know why you want to do this. And it's that connection that I have with you, especially as a clinician or even as an administrator to say, this person really wants to do this. Let me help them take that next step. It's interesting you mentioned that we've spoken to some other employers before who've said very similar things. So we, everyone knows we're probably interviewing more than one person, and you're probably looking at more than one job. But in the interview, it really shouldn't feel that way. And it is so important to come with an understanding of what the position is. What the institution is and why it's a fit for the next step in their career to the best of your knowledge and show that you have that bit of knowledge. What about questions at the end of the interview? This has come up a couple of times. Are there questions at the end of the interview that are either you'd say, sort of strong questions that really show interest and others that might. Not or might be almost red flags if those are the kinds of questions that they're asking. The ones that show interest for me are asking things about our training protocol. How long am I in training? How am I evaluated? How evaluated during my training? How much time do I have to grasp a concept? So understanding that timing, very important. Asking questions along the line of, you know, what are the specialties I'm working with? Showing interest. If you, you know, from now are really interested in pediatrics, is there an opportunity for me to work with that, that team, even if it's just part. Partly, you know, not every day type of thing. So asking directed questions, showing that you listened. I know you can be very nervous during an interview, but show that you listen. Most employers are going to walk through a day on the job, typically an interview. I'm going to say here are the general job duties. In a day, ask directed questions about those job duties to make it appear that you are trying to just get more information and you're not just concerned about the dress code and the pay. Yeah, it's interesting. We've talked a little bit about this before where there's a difference between sort of asking, you know, almost sort of informational questions. You know, like, what are the benefits? When is lunch? What is the pay? And those are important questions. And they have a time and place, but they're probably not the first questions, and they should not be the only questions that someone's asking at the end of the interview. It's really about conveying an interest and a desire to learn about the position. Correct. And the reality is when you're working with a larger institution, typically, because, and especially with LifeBridge Health, the job that you are taking, it's not like a temp job. It's a posted position. You're going to talk to HR. All of those questions. Are applicable for your H. R. business partner or your H.R. recruiter that you're working with. So if you don't get those questions answered, you will have touch points to get those questions answered. And most organizations, unless you're working with a small office. So I know that's very important for people to make decisions, but they should consider the fact that. When you're with the employer, your actual, you know, direct report, the manager that you'll work with, you need to get the information of the day to day because HR can answer some of those other items. That's a really, that's a great distinction and one that I think a lot of people don't necessarily walk into an interview with that there is, especially if there is kind of this HR. The organization is long enough that large enough that there's a separate HR function. Those questions are really appropriate for HR. When you're in front of, you know, the director of practice operations or a clinician, you really want to focus on clinical job responsibilities, you know, career advancement. Those are the kinds of questions to really be focusing on. You've been a great advocate for hiring pre health students. You've now hired a number of them. You mentioned initiative at the beginning of the show as sort of a key characteristic. What are some of the things that you have seen the successful applicants, the successful hires have when they're coming on day one, you know, to the position that really sets them up for success? Very much attention to detail. Every candidate that I can say that has walked in the door comes in with a notebook, not asking me to supply one being ready to, you know, not be concerned about, you know, it is important where you're going to lock up your personal effects. Right. But also what is the opportunities for me to interface with that provider today? What does that look like? What systems do I have to have access to? Do I have to do training? Can I do any of that on my own time so that I can get on to the next thing? So again, it's getting in there and showing that I'm going to write this down. I'm going to ask you this question. Once I'm going to do my best to make sure that whatever you do, I recreate that action. You tell me, okay, click here 3 times. Is there an opportunity for me to click there 3 times? So I can remember this function really showing. Attention. It can be hard to do when you're watching a video on how to do something, you know, the correct way to not start to fall asleep. But whatever you have to do, chew that gum, do whatever you have to do to not show that, you know, yes, you're human. Those things will happen, but show that you were doing everything you can to give it your all. Because that shows that you're truly interested and the person hiring this position knows that you're not going to be here forever. This is a stepping stone. They want to see that you're going to give us your all as you take this step. And that's why we want to partner with you to make this step possible for you. You know, it's interesting. A lot of pre health advisors and a lot of pre health students worry when they're coming to clinical positions about not having the skills and yet What you just highlighted and what we've heard from other employers is it's not about the skills that you have when you're walking in the door, it's really about the attitude, the initiative and the desire to learn and demonstrating it. You mentioned earlier, and I'd love to dig into this a little bit, sort of your story. You are a physician assistant, but now are the director of of surgery at life bridge. Can you talk a little bit about. Your path and why, how you focused or how you ended up in surgery as a focus. Sure, so my path starts a little bit before PA school even so I had decided in undergrad that I was going to go to medical school and in those last few years right before I was studying for my MCAT, my mother was diagnosed with cancer and I had a talk with a mentor of mine at the time and he's and he was pretty much clear with me that I'm going to have to give it my all. In medical school, regardless of what's happening with my mom, and I need to really think about that before I make that next step. So I said, okay, you know, I'm young. I can choose to do something before I do medical school to give myself time with my mom, depending on and my mother's doing great now. She's still alive. She's doing great. But that really made me think about my future. So, at the time, I was a respiratory therapist and I decided to say, okay, let me take the step of medical school because there's nothing that says I can't take that step 1st and then do medical school after that. Still took my MCAT and did fine on it and applied to PA school literally a month before. PA school applications ended with CASPA and got in as a second view with Towson and had an opportunity to show my passion for medicine. Show that this is, this is what I want to do, like regardless of the fact that I wanted to be an administrator in the healthcare field, because I love that side of people management as well. I was able to show them that I, I love the day to day getting in there and being an advocate for my patient, for their health. For their wellness and making sure that their longevity is a good one. So once I got into PA school, because I had a little bit of experience with management, I always had an opportunity to do something as a student. I was, you know, helping put up the OR board or whatever, taking every opportunity again to show that. I was ready to do my very best in my role. So that translated in my first job. When I was a student here, I was offered a position when I was a student on my elective at Sinai Hospital because I showed that initiative. I didn't, I literally interviewed while I was on my rotation. I didn't have a separate interview when I graduated and took my exam. I had already had a job. I knew where I was going because of the initiative I showed. On my rotation. So walking in the door, my employers knew enough about me and knew about my initiatives. I was given opportunity after opportunity to grow and every single time. It wasn't for money. Hey, Deanna, we need help with doing XYZ. Can you do that? Most definitely. I want to do that. And I was in my 15 years with this organization. I've had 7 promotions. I was doing the work prior to getting the actual title of promotion promotion again. My favorite word initiative show that you have passion for what you're doing. Regardless of how hard it is, regardless of how the climate changes, COVID, nobody expected it, but you show that you have the, the passion for what you're doing, you're going to have multiple opportunities to take whatever trajectory you want in your future because you're in there and you're giving it your all. In working with patients, what are things ...
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CapYear Cast - Ashley Hughes, MSPAS, PA-C
04/28/2023
CapYear Cast - Ashley Hughes, MSPAS, PA-C
Today on the CapYear Cast, we are joined by Ashely Hughes, MSPAS, PA-C. Ashley is the Program Director for Bryant University's Master in Physician Associate Studies program, and she was kind enough to share her time and her insights with us. In this brief interview, Ashley talks about what a competitive program like Bryant's looks for in an aspiring applicant. Besides the undergraduate must-do's like advanced course work and solid a GPA, she discusses several ways for candidates to stand out. For instance, gap years spent gaining patient-facing hours, demonstrating an ability to balance work and school, PA-shadowing, and even tips for how to make your essay stand out. All in all, it's a must-listen for current and future PA-school applicants! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus, you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at Transcript below: John Walkup: Hi, and welcome back to the CapYear Cast. I'm your host, John Walkup, and joining us today is Ashley Hughes. She's the program director for Bryant University's Master of Science and Physician Associate Studies Program. Ashley, welcome to the program. Ashley Hughes, MSPAS, PA-C: Hi, John. Thank you very much. John: I'm glad you could join us. So you've been in this position for about a year now - what drew you to Bryant? Ashley: I had been working in PA education for close to 10 years. I believe it was about seven years in the role of an academic coordinator, and I was looking for a role that I would be able to get into that would allow me to really try to redesign and refine a curriculum a little bit more so than I already was. The opportunity was available at Bryant. They had the position open for the program director. I met with the president of the university and the provost, and they were so incredibly welcoming. They, they're very supportive and understanding of the goals that I had for being able to design the curriculum to a point where, you know, I felt that we would. Be a hundred percent preparing our students for their board examination and let me run with it. So it just seems like a really great fit. John: That's great. Bryant has a unique program. I know you do gross anatomy at the Warren Alpert School of Medicine at Brown University. There's your 2000 hours of didactic lessons - what sets Brian apart? Ashley: So we actually have a few different areas of the curriculum that are very unique to Bryant. So one of them is, yes, we do send our students to the Brown Anatomy Lab, and that's where they meet with the same instructor that teaches the Brown Medical School students and they have a very condensed anatomy course. I actually teach the history and physical examination course. It's not typical for a program director to be that involved in the education of the program. But I very much enjoy doing so, and I have the entire core faculty involved in that. Lastly, we have what we call an immersive clinical simulation experience. That we have run throughout an entire week for our students where they're in the clinical simulation lab, caring for patients, using the skills that they've learned in the clinical medicine courses, and that is very new for us that we've designed this year, and it's worked out very well, and the students have really liked it and enjoyed the entire time. John: All right, we're going to get into it now. So if you look at any ranking out there, like US news or whatever, a physician associate is usually one of the top jobs, if not the top job. It's always top five. That makes for a lot of competition for limited spots, especially in sought after programs like Bryant. So, from your perspective, you're the program director, I'd like to talk about what makes an ideal candidate for the Bryant University program. Tell me about the characteristics you're looking for in a successful applicant. Ashley: So if you look at our mission statement, our mission statement really boils down to trying to find candidates who are passionate about giving back to their community. They really want to serve underserved populations. They want to deliver high quality healthcare, and they want to be leaders in their community. So those are the types of people that we're looking for. On top of that, we're ideally trying to look for the students who've been very successful in their undergraduate studies and those that have at least 2000 hours of patient care experience. And that may be a bit hard for a student to achieve immediately after undergrad. So more often than not, we're looking for those students that have at least one to two gap years, because that's typically what gives them enough time to acquire those clinical hours. John: Interesting. Well, thank thank you for bringing that up! At CapYear, that is what we do. So if you do have a gap year CapYear is here to help you with that. We help place gap year students in medical assistant facing roles. So they get those patient hours. That's is difficult to do, so I'm glad that that's something we can help with. So enough of my self plug there, let me get back. Let me talk about on the academic side, are there any specific academic requirements for the program that you should be doing before you get into the program? Ashley: Absolutely. So we have all of the courses that we require posted on the program website. We require eight hours of general chemistry, anatomy, physiology biochemistry, microbiology, all of and statistics. So all of those courses are listed there, and I apologize if I'm missing one of them. The caveat to that is we understand that there are some schools out there that have maybe changed their curriculum. So courses such as general chemistry rather than being taught over two semesters and being given for eight credit hours, are now being taught in a condensed fashion. So we do understand that, and we do make some exceptions when that is the case, but we do have definitely a list of courses that we do require the students to have before they apply to the program. John: I would assume these are courses that you. You may not need to get a perfect 4.0, but you probably should have above a 3.0. Am I, am I correct there? Ashley: That's exactly right. So our preference is for 3.0 or higher in those courses. And those courses are often designated as comprising the BCPGPA, so the biology, chemistry, and physics. So we try to look for that because we know on previous analyses at this program and other programs that that's a correlate to passing the boards after graduation. John: Let's talk about the application process itself. Now, I believe this is the CASPA process, which is getting underway right now. Is that about right? Ashley: Yes, it actually just opened. So the application window is now available so students can log in, they can submit their application, and it's a multi-step process. So first, they submit to CASPA, and CASPA allows you to designate schools so you can designate as many schools as you would like as a PA school applicant. Once you do that, if you select Bryant, the next step is to submit the supplemental application. So then they would have to fill out their supplemental application, which is one or two questions from Bryant specifically, so that we can learn a little bit more about the applicant, perhaps things that we did not gather from the CASPA application. From there, our director of Admissions reviews all of the applicants, which historically has been around 800 applicants. Last year we had over a thousand. John: How many spots are they competing for? Ashley: 47 spots. John: It's very competitive. So how do you do that selection process? How do you evaluate candidates, especially when so many are going to be very similar in terms of what they want to do and the grades they're bringing to the program? Ashley: Absolutely, and this is very difficult. We have to do this with the, the use of the entire team here. So our admissions director will first go in and look at the applications and make sure that those people who have submitted have all the minimum criteria that we are requesting and that they've taken all the appropriate prerequisite courses. So once that's done, she starts filtering the applications to the faculty members. And we have two faculty members at the minimum reviewing every person's application. And we create a multi-tiered bucket that we put these applications into. And it's based on the score that we develop. We have a very detailed rubric, and on that rubric, we evaluate the grades and courses. The number of difficult courses a person has taken per semester. We look at their volunteer experience, we look at any sports or athletics they were involved in during undergrad, if they were able to maintain a job and go to school, their clinical hours, the type of position and their recommendation letters. And we also, of course, take into effect a person's life experience and their general picture because we like to have a holistic approach to the application process. And typically, once we do that, we'll end up with about a hundred people that we offer interviews to. And out of those 100, then we'll accept 47. John: Wow. Okay. So I got so many questions here. Let me just start on the first one, which is, There, there's definitely a balancing act between loading up your undergrad schedule with really difficult courses and then excelling in those courses. And I'm wondering it, does it, is it better to have a, a whole bunch of hard courses on there, or is it better to sort of have a fewer courses, maybe not as difficult, but straight A's. Ashley: So we'd like to see some, some pretty rigorous scheduling in undergrad, and that's because in PA school, we're trying to feed you all of the information that you need to practice clinically within about 12 months, right? So it's helpful for us to see that a person is capable of taking two to three really difficult or hard, hard science. Courses within one semester. So that applicant might be a stronger applicant to the faculty reviewing than somebody who's taking one difficult science course per semester. John: Right. And you also mentioned the candidate that might have a job, you know, sort of a part-time job on the side. How does that influence how you view applicants? Ashley: So that's helpful because what we look at as I said, we look at the number of courses per semester, the difficult ones. If we see someone who's a stellar applicant and maybe they're only taking one or two difficult courses, there could be a reason for that. It could be that, you know, maybe they had to work while they were in school and because of their need to have this job and to support themselves in one fashion or another. That. Was the reason why they took fewer difficult courses. So we take that into consideration and that's helpful for us because that applicant would be looked at as having as rigorous of a schedule as that person who is perhaps not working and maybe taking those three difficult courses per semester. John: Got it. All right. Now I want to dive into the personal essay. And I'm curious when you're reading these essays because you know there's so many, there, there really is almost a form to these, right? You want to start out with a hook, and you kind of talk about how you're viewing this, how you're viewing yourself, and what you've done. How you can read these and not have your eyes glaze over reading the same thing. What makes some of these essays stand out? Ashley: The essays that stand out for me are those that are not essentially a recap of a person's resume. Okay. So as you said, having a hook line. So why did you want to be a pa? That is typically the question that's posed to applicants when they're trying to fill out these personal essays. So what led you to the profession? Why do you want to be a pa? I don't want to read about their experiences. And how those experiences are essentially mirroring what's on their resume. I want to learn about perhaps maybe a patient encounter that was meaningful to them. I want to learn about the first time they heard about the PA profession and really what was different about PA and what made them lead in that direction versus. MD or NP or some other health, allied health profession. So I would say those essays that stand out are the ones that have more of a personal touch to them that maybe tell a story and completely avoid summarizing their resume. John: That's really helpful. Thank you. I will highlight that in the transcript because I think that's a great takeaway. And so let me ask now about the reference letters and letters of recommendation and things like that. Who are the best people to ask for those, and what sort of things do you really want to have come across? Ashley: We want to learn more about the person's character. I want to know who they are as a person. I want to know about how they function in a team and how they take criticism. So those are really the top three things that we look for, and ideally, the best people to write recommendation letters are those that know the applicant best. So that could be someone who they are working with. It doesn't necessarily have to be their direct supervisor. Maybe it's a PA that they work alongside. So as you said, for cap year, these students sometimes if they're applying to PA school, will take a year and function as an ma. Asking that pa that they're working with on a daily basis to write a recommendation letter is incredibly valuable because as a reviewer, I'm thinking the PA is writing this thinking. I can see this person as a colleague in the future. So that is very helpful. Using instructors as people to write a recommendation letter is also perfectly fine, especially if, if it's an instructor that can speak to a very strong academic performance in undergrad. What I would avoid is asking people that you know personally. So sometimes we have applicants ask a friend or a neighbor or someone that they're close to, to write a recommendation letter That has less value than asking coworkers, colleagues, academic instructors, or other health professionals that they've worked with closely. John: This is really fantastic. Okay, now, now we're going to get into uncharted territory. I want some unique advice for our aspiring applicants. Is there anything that might not be found online or in a textbook that you might suggest? Ashley: So one thing, and I, I don't think this is in a textbook, but we do have a rolling admissions process, and what that means is we're reviewing applicants and bringing them in, interviewing and making a decision that same day on whether we're to accept or deny acceptance to that applicant. And applying early is critical because we can get through maybe two or three different interview sessions and we could have our entire cohort filled. Or maybe we'll have two seats left. So if you are applying later in the application cycle, you may not know it. But you could be vying for only two or three open seats within a program. So look at the program and see if it says rolling admissions or not. And again, Bryant does have rolling admissions, so based on the quality of the applicants and the quality of those people as they're coming in and interviewing with us, we could either have plenty of seats available in October, or we could have no seats available in October. John: The early bird gets the worm. Ashley: Absolutely. Yes. The only other thing that I would suggest is PA shadowing. Okay. So we do really want to make sure that people have a good understanding of the role of a PA in healthcare and the understanding of the relationship that occurs between the collaborating physician and the pa. So it's important to have that, those shadowing hours. If a person can shadow in more than one. Specialty, then that puts them at a higher ranking than someone who has either done virtual shadowing or shadowing in one specialty only. So I would highly suggest shadow a pa, try shadowing in different medical specialties as well. John: Wow. More fantastic stuff. Great. What are some of the challenges and some of the common misconceptions that applicants might face, especially as they're going through the process and they're, they're, they're leaning on cap, maybe they're leaning on CASPA a little bit too much to sort of fill in this application. What sort of roadblocks would you try to remove from people's way? Ashley: I'm not quite sure if this is a roadblock, but one thing I have seen is people will take a portion of their CA application and reuse that in the supplemental application. Mm-hmm. For Bryant's, and I would say that's a big no-no and never to do that because we can see what's within the CASPA application and what's in the supplemental application and we want to ensure that you're taking the time. To write something that's very specific to our university, if this is where you want to go, rather than using some of the information from your CASA app, which can be used for all PA programs that a person is applying to. John: Awesome. All right, we’ve covered a lot of ground here. And quickly before we go, is there a link on Bryant that I can direct people to if they want more information on your program? Ashley: Yes. So if you go to bryant.edu from there, under the academics, you can select the PA program. And under the PA program, we have everything from information about our faculty to the curricular design, to prerequisites, to even an email address, to contact our admissions director if you have any very specific questions that are not answered on the website. John: Awesome. Ashley Hughes, program director for Bryant University's Master of Science and Physician Associate Studies. Thank you very much. We do appreciate your time, and we'll send next time on the CapYear cast. Ashley: Great. Thank you very much.
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Teaching Clinical Skills and Mentoring Future Generations with Dr. Bruce Glassman
03/14/2023
Teaching Clinical Skills and Mentoring Future Generations with Dr. Bruce Glassman
Today on the CapYear Cast, we talk with Dr. Bruce Glassman of Capital Dermatology, a subsidiary of Advanced Dermatology in Alexandria, Virginia. Dr. Glassman talks about the benefits of hiring pre-health graduates as medical assistants. They bring an energetic and enthusiastic work culture to the office and provide opportunities for education and mentoring by experienced providers. Over the last twenty years, Dr. Glassman has led by example, providing mentorship and helping build the buy-in of other providers into the program. The students have the chance to learn clinical skills, and while there is a learning curve, outgoing students share what they have learned with the incoming class. Hence, mentorship and teaching are instilled and reinforced as core healthcare values even before medical school begins, encouraging a desire to learn and mentor future generations. Great stuff! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus, you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at Transcript below: John: Hi, and welcome back to the CapYear Cast. Today we're joined by Dr. Bruce Glassman of Capital Dermatology, which is a subsidiary of Advanced Dermatology. Dr. Glassman, welcome, and thank you for joining us on the CapYear Cast. I what to start with the inspiration behind your practice: hiring pre-health graduates as medical assistants. Dr. Glassman: Great question, John. We do it because it provides a tremendous amount of energy into the office that we just found to be very infectious from a provider's standpoint and a patient's standpoint. The providers come to work, we have eight providers in our office, and they are engaged in teaching and mentoring these young students, which sets a tremendous tone for the office daily. Secondly, it provides us an opportunity to give back to these students in education. It really is something that when you go through your medical training, you're being taught by so many that the chance to give back in a teaching experience is really very rewarding. So, those are the two main items that really make this program extremely worthwhile and make it continue to run year after. John: Let me focus on the first part of that, which is the benefits to the practice. I'm curious, you mentioned they bring this energy, they bring this enthusiasm, but there's also that mentoring aspect. Does it feel like an extra layer of work for the physicians in the practice? And, if so, how do you get that buy-in that's needed to keep this going year to year? Dr. Glassman: It all starts with leadership, and I am 100% focused on providing mentorship for these young students. And again, the positive rewards are just limitless. Years and years of relationships and kids grow. It's really wonderful. So by leading in that way, I get the other providers to pay in because they see how hard I work at it. And ultimately, they see the benefits in the future as well when they see these kids grow up and become PAs and doctors later in their careers. John: Right. Let’s focus on the graduate side of the folks you're bringing in. And obviously, there are some benefits here, which is you're getting the, the clinical experience, which is really difficult to get, you're getting that right out of the gate. But the sort of logistics and the practicality aspect of it, I mean, a lot of it, you just have to learn by doing. And I'm curious, was that a bit of a stumbling block for some folks coming in? Or is it the kind of thing that the students pick up relatively quickly? Dr. Glassman: One of the features that we have in the program is that the people who are leaving one year teach the kids to come in the next year. That's chapters seven and eight in the program manual for what you're going to get out of the program. And part of that is the ability to teach others what you've learned, and that's a skill. And they really do take that seriously and embrace that whole experience. There's a huge learning curve with this whole process. It takes about a month or two to get the kids up to the standards we're looking for them to have. And, again, that one to two months gives you 10 to 11 good months, and that's really invaluable to the practice and makes everything well worthwhile in the end. John: So is it fair to say that if you're nervous coming in, starting day 1 of June, that, June, July, you're going to be learning, but by August, don't worry about it, you're going to be a pro? Dr. Glassman: Well, as you know, only death and taxes are guaranteed. The rest of it, you never know. But that’s the model we shoot for. John: Right, and what's really curious is it's almost like you're instilling this mentorship and teaching idea even before the med school process starts. So even before you have those didactic years where the information is just pounded into you, you've got that desire not only to learn, but you're being taught by others as you go through this process. I can imagine that that feeds on itself, so when you are a PA, or you are a physician yourself, and you're bringing in students, you've already got that background and that desire to mentor. Dr. Glassman: Yeah. See one, do one, teach one. That's something we learn in medical school, right? And exactly. The same thing happens here. So hopefully we're instilling that for future generations. John: Right. And let’s talk about those future generations that are looking to do this in this year, next year, in the coming years, from your standpoint now. You were a pioneer in this, you've been doing this for almost 20 years now. When you are sitting in your seat, you’ve got a view of the incoming candidates, what is it you're looking for? What sort of thing makes a candidate stand out? Dr. Glassman: A couple of factors. Number one intellectual curiosity. That ability to ask why? Just that sense of, astonishment at what you're being exposed to and then figuring out what it is and trying to make sense of it. Number two is being good and kind to people. That's really critical when it comes to providing care and having empathy for the patients. Number three knowing when to say no and/or when to ask questions. So never make believe you think you know what you're doing. So somebody who can take constructive criticism and understand. They need to absorb information and know when they're out of their strike zone, and those are all inherent features that people need to be successful in this type of position because there's so much that they don't know, and they really need to be confident with what they're doing. So they've got to ask questions and feel comfortable asking those questions. So those are a number of the factors that we look for. John: Interesting. You have the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns, and it's always the unknown unknowns that are going to get you in the end, Dr. Glassman: Well, you’ve got to be able to have that sixth sense to understand that those are unknowns, you know? John: Right. Are any of those teachable? Maybe the question is, are there any of these that are less teachable than the others? What do you just really need to have as a basic thing? Dr. Glassman: Yeah. I mean, if you're a nice person, you're a nice person, right. You can't teach that. You know, the curiosity part, you can kind of trigger that a little bit in the right direction and you can also trigger the ability to kind of get a sense that something just isn't right, so I better ask a question. So those two things, you can kind of work on a bunch. You can even teach people how to make small talk and how to get through that part as well. John: Yeah. Well, I know for a lot of doctors, making small talk is sometimes the most difficult part of the job. Dr. Glassman: If it doesn't come naturally, it's a challenge sometimes. Yep. John: Right. I know we're running short of time, so I want to focus on any advice that you might have. Let's start with advice to pre-health graduates today who are looking for placement in medical offices as medical assistants. What sort of advice would you give them? Dr. Glassman: I would say one of the benefits of our practice is that we're a large practice. I always am very pro on finding a program where there are multiple people, not just one or two people shadowing one doctor, because that can get pretty intense, and you may not get along with that doctor or person you're working with. There's a huge benefit I find in being in a large group, which is what we have. You want to have a tremendous amount of patient exposure. You know, the beauty of this experience is that you have a lot of hands-on experience, and our program definitely is focused on patient exposure and getting that hands-on exposure. So those are, those are the two things I would suggest looking for it. John: Right. And the last piece of advice I'd ask you for is for practices who are thinking about, or even may not even consider the idea of bringing in pre-health graduates as medical assistants. What sort of advice do you have for practices who are considering that approach? Dr. Glassman: Make sure it's for you. You know, make sure that you really want to buy into the concept. Because if you just do it halfway, it will be a detriment to everyone involved. You don't want to think of it as just a job. You want to think of it as an educational experience. If you think of it as just a job, you might as well go hire somebody who's looking for a job. My feeling has always been that with the students who are applying and who want to get on with their careers, you're not doing them any justice by just having them write in a chart. You have to engage them. We meet with each group of students after every clinic to make sure that they are able to discuss the day's work and make sure that they understand that. You know, they saw X patients with X conditions, and give them some of the knowledge base that you have acquired over the decades that helps to explain a lot about the medicine they saw that day. So it's not just a job, it's an education. John: Right. And that hearkens back to some of the main benefits which you said come to the practice, which is the energy and enthusiasm. Because you're not hiring an employee, you're basically teaching someone how to do the job, and someone who is thankful for that position. It's a win-win process from our standpoint, at least. Dr. Glassman: That's correct. John: Well, Dr. Bruce Glassman, I do appreciate your time. Thank you for joining us on the CapYear Cast, and we will catch you next time. Dr. Glassman: Thanks, John. Have a good day. Quick LinksGet Embed PlayerDownload Audio File
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CapYear Cast - Team-Based Care with Christopher Wolfgang, MD, PhD & Lindsey Manos, DHSc, PA-C
01/31/2023
CapYear Cast - Team-Based Care with Christopher Wolfgang, MD, PhD & Lindsey Manos, DHSc, PA-C
Today on the CapYear Cast, we are digging into team-based approaches to health care, specifically the MD/PA relationship. We are joined by Dr. Christopher Wolfgang, chief of hepatobiliary and pancreatic surgery and professor of surgery at the NYU Grossman School of Medicine, and CapYear's own Lindsay Manos, PA-C. Dr. Wolfgang and Lindsey worked together for several years in a team-based approach that enabled their practice to book more appointments, decrease wait time, see more patients, and generally increase the quality of care provided. In this episode, they talk about that dynamic, why it works, and offer advice for others considering a team-based approach. Fantastic insights from a dream team! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at
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The PA/MD Journey with Michelle Bomgardner, PA-C, Evan Dilks, PA-C, & Sami Shoucair, MD
01/17/2023
The PA/MD Journey with Michelle Bomgardner, PA-C, Evan Dilks, PA-C, & Sami Shoucair, MD
Today on the CapYear Cast, we explore the PA/MD journey. We are joined by PA-Cs, Michelle Bomgardner and Evan Dilks, as well as Dr. Sami Shoucair, who will share their experiences and insights on the path to PA/Med school. They'll discuss when healthcare as a career first caught their attention, what made them decide to pursue becoming a PA/MD, and any valuable lessons they've learned along the way. Michelle and Evan also compare their current reality as a PA to what they had imagined it would be a few years ago. Join us as we delve into the PA/MD journey and gain valuable perspectives on this rewarding career path. Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at
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CapYear Cast - Alli Pocsik- Gap Year Medical Assistant/Future Med Student
12/08/2022
CapYear Cast - Alli Pocsik- Gap Year Medical Assistant/Future Med Student
Today on the CapYear Cast, our own Dr. Deborah Gutman is joined by Alli Pocsik, a University of Michigan graduate who is spending her gap year working as a medical assistant before heading to medical school. Alli generously shares her experience of being in an active, hands-on role in dealing with patients. She talks about how patient interactions have improved her communication skills, how she progressed from shadowing to being on her own, how practice makes perfect, and how the medical assistant experience has made her feel more prepared for what’s to come in med school. Alli’s “clinical pearls” include going in with an open mind, being ok with being imperfect, and asking a lot of questions. If you’re interested in getting hands-on experience before med/pa school, tune in today! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at
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CapYear Cast - Andrea Lowe, MBA, MHA, PA-C
11/17/2022
CapYear Cast - Andrea Lowe, MBA, MHA, PA-C
Andrea Lowe, MBA, MHA, PA-C, joins the CapYear Cast today to discuss the social determinants of health, namely health equality and equity. Andrea talks about the factors that enable health from the ground up and why simple waiting room questions can change the narrative. Andrea's 20-year experience spans boots-on-the-ground operations to hospital leadership, so she knows firsthand how important holistic thinking and PA/NP dynamics are to the overall patient experience. Definitely worth a listen - great stuff! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at Transcript below: CYC_Andrea_Lowe_v2_-_HD_1080p John Walkup: Hi, and welcome to the CapYear Cast. Today we're joined by rockstar Andrea Lowe. She is a physician assistant. She has a master’s in health administration. She also has an MBA. Andrea, welcome to the show. Thank you for taking the time to be here. Why don't you tell our audience a little something about yourself? Andrea Lowe, MBA, MHA, PA-C: Well, first, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. As you said, I am a physician assistant (the title has physician associate). I have been practicing for 20 years in emergency medicine. I went into healthcare leadership and administration six years into my career. I've been a director of advanced practice providers, which are basically PAs and NPEs or APRNs, and then, I went in to be a vice president of operations and led hospital operations for six years before going to the American Academy of PAs, which is the PA membership site. So, I've had a lot of experience, and I actually was over medical assistants, scribes, physicians, as well as PAs and NPEs. So I know about the dynamics and how important those healthcare providers are to the whole patient experience. John: Great. Today we're going to be talking about health equity and equality and some of the things that factor into those and why they are so important. I'm going to give the floor to you, of course. Let's talk about health equity and equality. Andrea: I think it's important for all parts of the medical team to understand the importance of health equity and health equality. The first thing I always tell people is that you have to really understand the difference between the two. Health equality is really treating all patients the same. You're promoting fairness, but that really only works if everyone is sort of starting from the same place and needs the same help, which is not always the picture of our healthcare environment. So when we talk about health equity, it's really when all patients and communities have the same opportunity to obtain the highest level of health. But the thing is, it requires the recognition and foresight from everyone on the healthcare team as well as an intentional allocation of resources to help them reach those outcomes. So it's really giving everyone what they need to be successful. And so recognizing health inequities in that space are really the differences in health that are avoidable when you address health equity. John: Right. If you're not used to thinking about health in these sorts of terms, what are some of the things you could do to remind yourself of the difference on a daily basis? Andrea: So you know, especially as PAs and then with what you all are doing at CapYear with medical associates, we're usually the first encounter to the patient in their healthcare and continuum. So understanding things like the social determinants of health is so important. Understanding that barriers to access are very important to recognize. And understanding and treating the patient beyond the healthcare visit. So things as socioeconomic status, access to certain healthcare services, even neighborhood and level stressors, and access to nutritious foods. All of those things contribute to that patient's health and their medical conditions. Sometimes they're even more in the patient's medical conditions. So really understanding what we call social determinants of health in a patient and then understanding to ask the questions: are you eating nutritious foods? Are you able to get nutritious foods? Instead of coming from a place of: “This is what you need to do.” Really asking those questions - are you able to do it? So changing that narrative is so important for everyone on the team. John: Interesting. I like the idea of changing that narrative and putting yourself on the same playing field, almost as the patient. I'm curious, what are some of the kinds of questions you can ask? Are they really so simple as to say, “How are you eating every day?” Andrea: From an emergency room standpoint, there are triage questions that we ask all the time for the patient. And one of them really that's required by most sites is saying: “Are you safe at home?” So even if you're going to a clinic visit or emergency room visit, especially when you're seeing patients that are constantly coming back for things as not being compliant with medications, going beyond and asking – before saying that the patient is not compliant (which is really an outdated term) – “Well, can you afford your medications?” “Do you have pharmacies around you?” “We notice your cholesterol is up. Do you live someplace where there's a food desert, or you don't have access to nutritious foods?” It's really just baking in the same triage questions that we would ask when we're doing what we call the history of the present illness when you're coming in. It's really having the best practice and making those questions part of the healthcare plan because you're not going to see the most beneficial health outcomes unless you're addressing those issues. John: Right. So let me ask. Sometimes, the patient, they're sitting in the waiting room. The physician is not in, maybe the PA's not in, it's just a medical assistant that's sitting there. Is that a special time that the medical assistant can really make productive? I don't want to say small talk because this is anything but small talk, but it's patient-facing time that contains valuable information. How can you use that time to advocate for these patients? Andrea: That's a really great question. And I'll tell you, just in my practice, MAs have brought stuff to my attention in the emergency room or even in a clinic situation, and you're kind of going, going, going, and sometimes even you as a provider are like, oh, wait a minute, I didn't ask that. Or, I forgot to ask that. So again, it could be as simple as if the MA is doing the intake or taking the vitals and they see that the patient’s BP is a little elevated: are you taking your meds? Do you have them? And if it's no, instead of saying, okay, the patient is not taking meds and walking out the room, do that step: why? Sometimes it could be because “I truly can't afford them. You know, I've lost my job.” There are so many other factors that can lead to that. So asking those questions is important. And another thing, too is that one of the things that I always used to have my team do is really be aware of the resources around us. So wherever I'm practicing, anybody from really the front desk person to the MA to the provider to the discharging physician, whatever it is in that continuum, understands the resources. Understanding PR prescription help. Understanding places where you can go, like food pantries, to get nutritional food. Those simple things – just even having the list of resources you're contributing and even advocating for the patient in that sense. John: Interesting. I imagine that most practices or locations would most likely have a list of resources. But is there a set list of resources or a location where you can find these resources, either online or are there, are there offices in which you can go and understand what the local resources might be for patients who might need that help? Andrea: So especially one of the things that many people are speaking of and are aware of that's come out of this pandemic is understanding that there's so many health inequities. And so I think one of the things that we're seeing is the elevation of really resources that have kind of always been there. But places like CMS, the CDC, the National Minority Health Institute, there's so many, there's so much information out there. I know the CMS has it based on location and maps on their website and it's. Of, of resources that you can get. And then really partnering at the community level, that's really important as well. So, you know, working for an organization that's saying, okay, here are all of the community health clinics, here's what the churches are doing. Really getting boots on the ground. And understanding what that environmental scan is for the resources that you have is really not that hard. The hard part is actually having them. But understanding where the resources are from a national to a local level is really important. John: I'm going to try and put this in a little capsule here because I think this is really important stuff. It sounds to me that if you are an MA and you're sitting alone with a patient, perhaps they're waiting for the provider to come in, you have this window of opportunity. I'm wondering first, is their guard down a little bit when they're sitting there with someone who's not wearing the full white coat and has the authority to write prescriptions? Is it more of a one-on-one moment? Andrea: Yeah, I think it definitely is. Especially because some patients could have what they call ‘white coat syndrome.’ When you're like, oh my gosh, I'm on guard, I have to make sure to say this, this, and that. Many times I've had patients tell things to either the MA or the front desk person, down to not feeling safe at home. Things that they may not feel as comfortable telling me yet. So I really think that there's an opportunity for there to be a candid conversation. To go back a little bit of my history, I actually was a front desk person in a medical clinic. And that's what I worked at before I went to PA school. And there were many opportunities where the patient came in and said: “I'm so late, I'm so sorry. I've just been laid off.” Or “I couldn't come in, I had to take three buses to get here. I know I'm 15 minutes late. Do you think I could still be seen?” That is an opportunity to say: Okay, is there anything else that you haven't been able to do because of that? You know: “Is your health insurance still intact so you'll be able to afford your prescriptions?” Because here's the thing: that's many times what, as a provider, we're not going to ask because we're just there to treat the patient. We don't really care if they have healthcare insurance or not. But the issue is: you have to change that narrative. We treat people the same, so that's where it comes to that equality, but the equity is if I give you a prescription that's $250 out of pocket, and now you don't have health insurance… well, now I'm not addressing the equity part. So that's where there’s that opportunity for that MA to make that connection and sort of remind. And then, as I said, as providers we're trying to do our best. Healthcare is super busy, more than it's ever been before, so having that best practice where the MA is part of that healthcare plan and is looking for things like that, and even writing a little note, or even coming in the room and saying, “Hey, the next patient that's in the waiting room, just want to let you know they shared this. This is going on with them.” So when you are discharging them, keep in mind that you may have to tweak something or make a call for verification to cover certain things. That is so helpful. John: Right. It's amazing to me because it's establishing this lower-level relationship. There's the high level, which is like, “Hey, what is wrong with you today, and how can we treat what's going on with you?” But then there's that level of you as a person and getting to know it. And I'm wondering, from your point of view, how does that drive improvements in healthcare? Andrea: Yeah. So it's not even so much like a high and a low level. It's really treating the patient holistically. As I was saying, treating them beyond. But that is a significant part of healthcare because if you are not addressing the health inequities, you're really kind of shifting what the health outcomes are going to be. Because sometimes the social determinants of health can play a huge role in patient health outcomes, even more than medical conditions themselves. So it's really doing a disservice to the patient, but also a disservice to the provider, because I can't tell you how many times in the emergency room this person has come back and their sugar is still high. Well, can they afford the insulin? Can they take the insulin? Do they have a place to store the insulin? There are so many other things that go into that instead of a patient not just wanting to take their medications. And so if you address that before, you can avoid what we call in the emergency room some of the bounce backs. But even in clinics, when you're doing all this healthcare planning, and you want to bring the patient's cholesterol down and blood pressure down. But if you're not addressing their food intake, what's causing their blood pressure to be high, work stretchers, socioeconomic status, then you're just kind of going in a hamster wheel. You're not doing anything. So you really have to approach it with a holistic approach. John: Right. I like the idea of approaching it holistically. It's not a new concept, but it's one that I think needs new thinking. Because I think the revolution, I suppose it’s not even a revolution, but the idea of healthcare as being holistic is fantastic and I think it's long overdue. Andrea Lowe, thank you very much. We appreciate all of your insights. We appreciate you stopping by, and we will certainly have you on again to continue this talk. Thank you very much. Andrea: Thank you so much for having me.
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CapYear Cast - Joon Kim, EdD
11/07/2022
CapYear Cast - Joon Kim, EdD
Today on the CapYear Cast, Joon Kim, EdD, the and the of the National Association of Advisors for the Health Professions (), sits down with our own Dr. Deborah Gutman to discuss how to resource your pre-health advisors. NAAHP is an organization devoted to educating and supporting health professions advisors, so there's a ton of good advice, including why admission to med/pa school is much more than just meeting a threshold. Definitely worth a listen if you're involved in pre-health in any capacity! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at
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CapYear Cast - Debra Herrmann, DHSc, MPH, PA-C
10/11/2022
CapYear Cast - Debra Herrmann, DHSc, MPH, PA-C
Debra Herrmann, DHSc, MPH, PA-C, joins the CapYear Cast today to share five tips for surviving the didactic year at PA school. Not only is Debra a renowned PA educator, but she also has over twenty years of PA experience, so she can easily discuss both the academic and practical side of PA training. If you're interested in picking up some solid gold tips for how to crush the didactic curriculum, tune in! The links mentioned in the recording are below. Questionnaire to find your learning style: Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at Transcript below: John: Hi, everybody, and welcome back to the CapYear Cast. I'm your host, John Walkup, and today we have a very special guest. We are joined by Debra Herrmann. She is a PA educator extraordinaire, and has, what, 15 or so years of education, 21 plus years in the field. And today she's going to walk us through the didactic curriculum, what it is, and how to survive. It's going to be an interesting episode, and I suggest we buckle up - Debra, take it away. What is the didactic curriculum? Debra: All right. Well, thanks John. Thanks so much for inviting me to share my thoughts about how to survive the didactic year of PA school, you know, as a PA educator and someone who's gone through this. You know, I definitely have some tips that I want to share by the time we sort of wrap this up. But I'd love to start off by telling you a little bit more about it. The didactic year or the classroom phase of PA education. And so, you know, depending on the program that you decide to go to, that could be a year-long part of your curriculum, or it could be a year and a half or, or whatever it might be, but it's where you're going to, you know, learn the basic sciences that really. Form the pathophysiology of the clinical medicine that you're going to be learning. In addition to learning all the physical diagnoses, things like how to take a history, how to do a physical exam, you'll learn how to interpret lab findings, you know, diagnostics, other diagnostics studies. You'll get a chance to try out procedures. Like how to start an IV, how to do an ultrasound, guided IV. So all the things that you're going to need and draw upon when you go into your clinical phase of training, which is when you go out, and you do what we call clinical rotations in the various areas of medicine, pediatrics, emergency medicine, women's health, whatever your program calls it. And most programs, you know, as you know, are accredited by a body called ARC-PA, and they sort of specify all the standards around a curriculum that must be taught in both the didactic and clinical phase of training so that there is some standardization you know, among all the different PA programs out there to choose from. John: So this sounds like a jam-packed year, to say the least. Debra: Absolutely. And you know what, this will probably won't be new to your listeners when they hear this, but most people describe PA school as like drinking out of a fire hose and particularly in your didactic year because lots of information is being thrown at you and it's really very challenging to absorb it all and to process it all and then be able to immediately, you know, sort of apply it in the context of patient care. And you know, despite this really, challenging experience, there are 175,000 certified PAs out there. So my motto is if they can do it, so can you, you know, and so someone who's gone through it, like there were many times that I thought, wow, you know, my motivation decreased, and I just felt like, wow, I just can't learn One more thing today. I can't cram one more thing in there. But you remember the big picture and your “why” for even pursuing this and the “why” around being able to take care of patients as a physician assistant and to work with a team of other healthcare providers to provide really high-quality patient care. And all that comes back to you. The other thing that I will, say (universally, PAs will say about PA school) is that it sort of sets the benchmark for the rest of your life and career. I find myself saying in multiple circumstances, whatever challenge I'm facing, whether it's when I went back or was thinking about going back to get my doctorate or even just challenges I face as a parent, I normally can say to myself, wow, if I can survive PA school, I can certainly survive this. And that's what a lot of people will say, and, and I'm not alone in that. The other thing I would say is despite this challenge and how hard PA school actually is, if you ask PAs often, they'll say, “I wouldn't change a thing. I wouldn't have done anything differently.” I actually go a little bit further, I’m sort of that crazy person that, if given the chance to do it all over again to go back to PA school, I would do it. So, I'm sort of rare. Not a lot of people would volunteer to do that. But I happen to sort of love the educational process, which probably is why I am a PA educator. John: Yeah, I think most people, if they were asked to go back and do, say, organic chemistry, again, most people would simply say no. And I think that's the general answer for most of, the harder yet very rewarding programs such as PA school. So that's a great overview of what that year is. Now I understand you're going to share with us some tips on how to survive it. So without further ado, what are the tips? How do you survive the first, didactic year of PA school? Debra: I have five, and I hope that's easy for folks to remember. And I want to give you a little detail about each one. But I'll just summarize them quickly by saying, the first tip is to really know your learning preference and then to use this knowledge to develop your study strategy in PA school. The second tip is to be aware of the forgetting curve. The third is to take a team approach. The fourth tip is to manage your time wisely, and the fifth tip is to remain resilient. We'll just take them one by one. Okay, so to know your learning preferences. It's really important to give some thought to the ways in which you take in information, the ways in which you know that you store information, retrieve it, and then also express information. And so most folks consider this your learning preference or learning style. And so the way to sort of figure that out for yourself is to think back to other structured educational programs that you've been in and how you've learned what you already know. Were you one of those folks who was a read-write person where you had to write out something in order to process it and to observe it and to learn it and to retain it and then be able to retrieve it? Or were you somebody who had to talk it out, you know, say it out loud, you're more auditory. Or are you someone who has to act it out, physically move it out because maybe you're more of a kinetic learner? What we find is that most students in PA programs have a mixture of learning preferences or styles. And so you have to draw upon that when you're deciding how you're going to study and how you're going to organize your materials to help maximize the retention and retrieval of that information. One other tool that I would say - so let's say some by some chance, you just have no idea what your learning style is. Maybe you're just really, really smart and you made it through undergrad without having a particular approach or even knowing what your learning preferences are. There's a tool out there called the VARK, and at the program where I teach at, we had this. Students take the VARK at orientation and the way you get to that, it's www.vark-learn.com. It's great. It'll give you a sense of what your learning preferences are, but it also will give you some guidance on what does this mean for the way that you should organize your materials and how to study. I think that's a really, really first important tip for surviving the didactic year. John: That's great. I mean, that was one of my questions, actually. There are many types of learning, and speaking for myself, I was very much a kinetic learner. In that classroom setting, sometimes it's very difficult to act it out and, and learn by doing, especially when it’s coming from a lecture, and you're, you're learning stuff that's completely new and foreign. Debra: Yeah, absolutely. I actually have a kinetic component to my learning preference, and so what I found myself like, especially when I was taking an anatomy exam, I found myself sort of moving my joints and sort of trying to visualize inside what was going on. So there are many ways to exercise that kinetic learning preference in PA school. You just have to be careful and make sure you have the appropriate amount of space. John: Okay, now on to number two, please. Debra: The second tip is to beware of the forgetting curve. There is some literature out there, and this is another thing that we share in our orientation for our PA students who are coming in, about this concept that you've learned a lot of material, let's say you learned 100% of that material, if you don't touch, try to recall, or review that material by the second day you've lost 50% of that. What the forgetting curve tells us is that you’ve got to spend about 10 minutes per class hour to recall and review material from that day in order for it to stick in there. So let's say that you're in class. Most PA program students are in class sometimes eight hours a day, which means that you're going to need to spend about 80 minutes a day just recalling and reviewing what you learned that day. If you do this over time, when you sit down to prepare for the event, where you're going to have to apply this knowledge, whether it's an exam or whether it's a patient encounter, you're not starting from scratch. You've got a nice foundation to draw upon and that you've been building over time. And so we really do emphasize that with our students, that that's a really necessary component of the learning and retention process. John: Interesting. I suppose a lot of that comes down to effective notetaking while in class. Debra: Absolutely. It definitely does. John: Okay, tip number three. Let's have it. Debra: Take a team approach. In your prior educational studies, you've seen when they report exam scores, and you see the exam scores as sort of like a bell curve. You know, the average amount of students have hit the average, but then you've got some people who have exceeded the average, and you've got some people that are not close to the average, right? They're on the negative end of the spectrum of the bell curve. What studies have shown is in PA school in particular, where the competition for grades and where you rank in the class really ends because you're going to benefit from working together to raise that average and to really allow everyone to achieve on that more positive end of the bell curve. The other piece to that is in thinking about, “well, if I'm taking a team approach, who should be on my team?” So it's got to be people who learn a little differently than you, who think a little differently than you, that probably have a very different clinical background coming into PA school. A different cultural background even. So when you think about coming together with a study group or your tribe that you're going to eventually identify with in PA school, you want it to be a very diverse group so that you can maximize the learning within your group and really achieve extraordinary results on any anything that you can measure from a learning outcome standpoint, John: You want to match other folks' strengths to your weaknesses essentially, and sort of bridge any gaps you might have. Is that, is that as simple as asking somebody, “Hey, how do you learn? I learn like this…” Debra: That's a great question. I think for our cohort of students because they've all taken the VARK in advance, and we talk about this, and we bring this to their attention, you know, really early on in the PA process, I think they do a better job of really reaching across and finding people who are very different from them from a learning style or cultural background or prior clinical experience. So that's something that PA programs could think about really providing for their students. We make some group groups for our student and we try to diversify those groups and students often will say, “Well, all right, they put us together for this small group session. This must mean that we're a good group because we've got a variety of different perspectives here.” That's something that students can do on their own or they could advocate for within their PA program. John: Great. I love it. We're seeing some synergy now between these tips. It's fantastic. All right, onto tip number four, please. Debra: This is all about managing your time wisely. One of the things that I know that personally helped me was to think a little differently about the time that I have. I think about it this way: there's 168 hours within a week, right? And each one of these hours is a tile that can be moved around, right? So the first thing that you have to do with managing your time wisely is to automatically put in the really important stuff. So that's how many hours you need to sleep, time to make nutritious meals for yourself, or to find nutritious meals for yourself. Time for exercise and relaxation. Time to recharge your batteries with people who really are positive influences in your life, your support system, all of that. Time to interact and be social and have some balance in your life with family and friends. Then, once you've put in those really important items, you see what you have left. You also have to look at, “Okay, well what does my class schedule look like?” You got to plug that in, and then you start to really get a sense of, “Alright, well, what time do I really have leftover?” You'll be amazed at actually how much time is leftover, especially if you don't get going down a social media rabbit hole or a Netflix streaming event or something like that. You have to think very intentionally about the time that you do have. I'm not saying you can't build in a social media rabbit hole or a Netflix streaming time, but you've got to use your time wisely. Another way to do that is to look ahead at what's coming. PA programs are really great at giving like a calendar that shows when you're going to have exams, what days you're going to be in class for eight hours versus what days you're going to be in class for four. You just can play around with those tiles and your time and make it work for you in your particular situation. The other thing I would say that's a good use of your time is to make sure that you prepare for the sessions ahead of time. For instance, taking a look at the posted slides or notes or skimming the readings that are assigned the day before going into a class session is really helpful because it gives you some familiarity with the terms that are going to be used or the concepts that're going to be taught. So you're getting this sort of 30,000 foot view of the topic, this big picture. In the class it helps you get more of the details that you can hang on that sort of bigger picture and you can process the information a little bit better because you're not constantly trying to catch up or questioning, “Now what? I don't even know what that means.” You've given yourself a leg up in the processing by just becoming familiar with whatever is going to be covered in that class session by doing a little prep work. John: This is fantastic because part of the CapYear Academy is about stress and overwhelm and how that can really wear you down. A lot of it comes down to a lot of things in the clinical setting happening at the exact same time and that just sends our brains haywire. It freaks people out and it sounds like that happens a lot in PA school too. However, if you've structured your time appropriately and you do have that downtime, you'll be kind of able to mitigate that. My question for you is how well do PA schools sort of understand the pressures that the students are under, and what kind of resources do they offer to help you cope? Debra: Very well. I would say very well because, remember, you can't be a PA educator without being a PA or a physician or a clinician of some sort. So everybody's been there, done that. They definitely understand it from a very personal experience with it. And that's great. I'm so glad that you asked about resources at PA programs. You know, oftentimes, you're assigned to a faculty advisor who can help think about what's working well for you, and what's not working well for you. Almost like a personal coach of some sort who can help you ask the important questions of yourself, “what is working well, what's not, what does that mean? What's going to be my action plan? What could I maybe try that might work a little bit better?” So most PA programs have some mechanisms in place around advisement for students. In addition to that, you have each other. And you can talk to your fellow students, your peers, about what you know, what they're doing, how they're approaching things. That's always a really great resource and an eye-opening experience because, again, we're all going to approach this from different perspectives based on our prior experience and then our own learning styles and preferences. Someone may give you an idea, tell you something that they're doing and you're like, “Wow, I would've never thought about that. I'm so glad I asked that question.” But then there are resources usually within the educational setting for which the PA program is situated. So whether that's a university, most of them have disability support services so it's not unusual. It's been my experience as a PA educator that sometimes people find out during PA school that they have some type of learning deficit. Whether they have a lot of test taking anxiety or they have some issues processing material in certain formats. And so our support the support services at our university has been really great about meeting with students who are struggling, you know, academically or personally to achieve their goals and have helped them figure out, “Well, what does this mean” and what accommodations could help to to really equalize that student's experience and to maximize their success. Some universities actually have learning strategies, specialists, or student support services that have resources on study skills, time management, test taking, and all of that. So there are many different resources available to PA students because everybody knows how hard it is. There’s been a lot of development and thought into how to make sure that each and every student gets the best chance to be successful. And trust me, all PA programs want their students to be successful, so they have...
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CapYear Cast - Lindsey Manos, DHSc, PA-C
08/25/2022
CapYear Cast - Lindsey Manos, DHSc, PA-C
Lindsey Manos, DHSc, PA-C, joins the CapYear Cast today for a practical talk about the importance of patient scheduling. Lindsey is not only a strategic advisor and lead educator here at CapYear, she is also a surgical oncology physician assistant at a large academic medical center. In short, she knows her stuff! If you're interested in learning the secret sauce to keeping the inner workings of medical and clinical offices running smoothly, tune in! Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at
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CapYear Cast - Katy Hines, PA-C
07/22/2022
CapYear Cast - Katy Hines, PA-C
Katy Hines, MBA, MS, PA-C joins the CapYear Cast today for a deep dive into the ins and outs of PA school, and she talks about her journey toward choosing the PA path. Katy is not only a Physician Assistant, but she is also an educator, and she shares her thoughts on the process of selecting, applying, and attending PA school. There are more branches on that decision tree than you would assume, so Katy was kind enough to create an awesome (and free!) template to find and track your application to PA school. The link is below. If you're thinking of applying to PA school now or later, you're sure to find some takeaways in this conversation. Link to the template (open in Google Sheets and create your own copy to edit): Link to PA school database: List of ARC-PA accredited programs: Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at Transcript below: John: Hi, and welcome back to the CapYear Cast. I'm your host, John Walkup, and today we're joined by Katie Hines. She's a surgical physician assistant, and she's a director of an advanced practice at an academic medical center, and she's also a strategic advisor and lead educator here at CapYear. Katie, welcome to the CapYear Cast. Katy: Thank you John. I'm happy to be here. John: Me too. So let's get started. Today we're going to be talking about PA school - physician assistant school. Why don't we just open it up by talking about PA school in general? Katy: Sure, that'd be great. So nationally, at least in 2021, there are about 287 physician assistant programs across the nation, and we're going to take a deep dive today into what should a potential physician assistant student really be looking for in these programs. There are so many. How do we possibly choose? PA school is very rigorous. I just want to put that out there. It's a heck of a lot of fun. You're going to learn a lot. You're going to set yourself up to be a very successful health care clinician, but it is rigorous! It is very rigorous, and most PA programs are actually modeled after medical school. There is a didactic portion where you're in the classroom, you're learning all the things, you're taking courses, and then there's also going to be a clinical portion where you're out and about learning about different disciplines, working in different healthcare settings and getting all those tools and skills that you need to be a physician assistant when you graduate from school. So 287 programs. Rigorous. There's a didactic component as well as a clinical component. John: You are a PA. Walk us through your mindset as you were picking a PA school and your thinking about being a physician assistant as a career. What was that all about? Katy: Yeah. Thank you so much for asking. My journey was really unique. I always thought I was going to be a doctor. That was it, I was going to be a doctor, period. No one would convince me over here otherwise. So I spent most of my college career walking that road and, thankfully, taking courses that overlap with what a physician assistant also needs to take. Somewhere going into my last year of college, my now husband but boyfriend at the time was diagnosed with cancer, and he spent his first couple of rounds of chemotherapy at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore. And that was where I first encountered a physician assistant who took care of my husband back then. And I thought, “Wow, who is this amazing healthcare provider?” She started telling me more about herself: “I'm a physician assistant, and here are the things I can do, etc., etc...” So I pivoted that year from wanting to go to medical school, to going to PA school and I had to really quickly learn, oh my goodness, what is PA school all about? What does it mean to be in this profession? I spent that summer on the PAEA website, which we'll talk about in a minute, looking at all the different (287, you know, probably less back then) PA schools across this nation and I started narrowing down what was most important to me. I knew I wanted to be local to my family. I knew that I wanted to be in a classroom, possibly alongside medical students. I knew that I wanted to be in a reputable program. I wanted to be in one that had a high pass rate on the national certification exam we take and one that had a great support community from its professors. So did they care about culture at their school? Did they care about student well-being? Did they have resources for students that might be struggling? And so, knowing what I was looking for helped guide my path to finding the right school. After I narrowed it down to 10ish schools, I called my dad and said, “We're going on a road trip! We are going road tripping, rhis is going to be great!” And we quite literally went to every open house, or we just showed up on their front door, and we learned about the programs. We got tours around the buildings. We got to interact with students that were even in their classroom at the time. We got to meet some of the leadership of the PA program. And I have to say there's something about a feel or a vibe that you get when you step on a campus of some sort. So one of the pearls that I want to be a takeaway today is that you have to immerse yourself in what you might be getting into with any PA program. So get out there, tour around. Physically go find tudents that are either recent graduates or are actually sitting there on campus that day and talk to them. What do they like most about the program? What do they wish they would've done differently? What's one thing the program is lacking or could have an opportunity to improve upon? Firsthand experience is a great way to really narrow down PA schools, and that's what I did. When I found myself in Washington, DC at George Washington University, I thought, “Wow, this is a hop, skip, and a jump from Baltimore, but it's far enough away that I don't have to see my parents all the time. I love the hustle and bustle of the city.” It felt great. Like I could take the metro in. There was a lot going on around me, and for me, that was important. When I walked into, the classroom, I noticed that they do big sessions with all the students in the learning environment together. And I loved that. We even had classes alongside the medical students, and I thought, heck, we're working with doctors, that is the care team: nurses, doctors, advanced practice, and multi, multi-disciplines. To get to know them early on and understand the dynamic between a doctor and a physician assistant was really important to me, so I knew GW was going to be my school. Now my friend over here who lives down the street, she was like, “Oh, you won't catch me dead in a city like that. No way.” She said, “I think I'll stay a little bit more out in the rural towns where we have small groups that work through case studies during our didactic portion. And we only have rotation sites available in my own little hometown.” So I would encourage you to decide what is most important to you, and I would love for us to roll into what are 15 things to consider when you're looking for a PA program, but it really comes down to a very personal choice. But then you have to have backup plans. One school might not be your golden ticket, so you want to have a couple in line that you really love. John: Well, so let me ask you, before we get into how to choose a school, because it sounds like there's a myriad of options out there, and even once you've gone through the options, there's a subset of options you're going to have to parse through as well. But it sounds to me, and if you could please describe this, what's the difference between, the med school application process and the PA school application process? For students who are in there maybe their second or third year of undergraduate and they're looking at this as the next step, the application process can be very, very different, and I wonder if you could just touch on that for a moment. Katy: Certainly. And I'd love to invite Dr. Guttman at some point to really help us understand the medical school application. But there are some things that overlap that we need to be mindful of. So for one you need to, in your undergraduate year, you really need to be thinking about what coursework you are taking as an undergraduate. You've got to have certain prerequisites to be able to get into either medical school or PA school, basic sciences, anatomy and physiology, statistics, and things of that nature. So you want to be very, you want to know early on what your top medical or PA school choices might be, maybe five or 10 of them, and see what coursework is going to be required as a prerequisite for admission. Understanding coursework is very important. Another thing that overlaps between medical school and PA school is that you're going to need to fill out the application, right? And typically, on there, in addition to what coursework you have taken, are patient care hours or patient experience hours. They want to know that you have been out and about either shadowing, volunteering, or having a paid position working with patients. And some schools usually mandate an hour requirement. For example, you need 500 direct patient care, hands-on, hours to even be able to apply to our school. So coursework and patient care hours are important. And then you're going to need to, at some point, write a personal statement. A personal statement is why do you want to come to medical school? Why do you want to come to physician assistant school? Tell us why, in a capped amount of words and in a capped amount of length. You really can draw so much from your patient care experiences, stories that inspired you or made you feel sad, or how you watched a healthcare provider overcome a really challenging patient situation. These are all things you can pull wisdom from and bring into your personal essay. And then, of course that brings us, in addition to our course requirements, our patient care hours, our experience statement that we have to write about, you're going to have to do an interview at some point. A face-to-face or virtual interview. And so you really want to be prepared to answer questions. They might be ethical in nature, they might be morals based. They might be, “Hey, you have a patient that's crashing in your emergency room. What are your next steps?” So preparing for an interview is the fourth item that overlaps between submitting for medical school and submitting for PA school. And then, we can tap Dr. Guttman to get into some of the nuances of the medical school application. John: Right. Well, I'm glad you mentioned patient hours because that is what we are all about at CapYear, and it's a cornerstone of any application. Katie, when you're looking to whittle down the numerous options for a PA program, what are some of the things that you should be looking for, and how can you keep your search organized? Katy: Great question. So, a few things, and I would love to offer the listeners of this podcast, a free template that CapYear put together to keep track of just what you said. What schools am I looking at? What are their requirements? What do I love, etc, etc, etc. So, I've got 15 things to consider. This is an extensive list, but you have to be thinking about it. First and foremost, where would you go to even start the process? There is an online platform called PAEAonline.org – the Physician Assistant Education Association, that's what it stands for. Once you get onto their site, you can browse by a map, or you can browse by a list of all of those 287 schools. Hover over a school, and it'll give you an added glance shot as to what they require to get in. Or you can click a button that will direct you straight to their website, and that is where you get into the nitty-gritty. What GPA do you have to have? What are those courses? What are those patient care hour requirements? When are the interviews? What are the deadlines for applying to this school?So PAEAonline.org is the first place you want to look. What should you be looking for? All right. 15 items. Location. Do you want to be in-state or out of state? There are price differences with that. Do you want to be near your family? Do you want other support systems? What kind of social environment do you want? Are there grocery stores nearby? Is there a bowling alley or a movie theater? Because god knows you're going to need some social events to get your mind out of that rigorous curriculum and have a little bit of fun. Do you want to be near mountains, oceans, parks? Second, what's the size of the school? Do you want to be with 15 people or do you want to be with 50 people? Some people need a lot smaller class size for their learning style. So knowing your learning style, what size class do you want? Length of the program. They can run anywhere from about 24 to 27 months, all the way up to three years. A PA program can run the gamut of that. So how long do you want to be in school for? Next, the curriculum. You're going to find PA programs that are in-person. You're going to find some that are all online. You're going to find some that are a hybrid, some that require you to be on campus, and some that don't care if you step foot on their campus. And so you need to figure out the What does the curriculum look like in terms of what they're expecting from their students To that end, do they offer things like skills labs, simulation labs, cadaver labs? Do you want to be digging in a cadaver to learn? Is that your style, or do you not care? Could you do that virtually? So again, things to consider with the curriculum. Let's talk now about the fifth thing, clinical rotation. Are the sites set up for you, or do you have to go find your own sites? I've come across some horror stories lately where the student has been required to find their own clinical sites during the year, and that can be a painful process. So ask if they set those up for you or not. Furthermore, when you get placed perhaps in a different state, are they going to offer you living barracks? So do you need to find living, or are they going to be finding it for you? Are you paying for it? Is your school paying for it? All things to consider with clinical rotations. All right, next, is cost. So you should be thinking about this as an investment. However, that doesn't negate the fact that a program can be very, very expensive, and more than likely, you're carrying some undergraduate loans as it is so you want to be thinking about the cost. Now there are always, you know, assistance and loan options available. There can also be veterans benefits and scholarships. So that's something to keep in the back of your mind. The next two things are important. So is your program accredited by the ARCPA? That’s the accreditation council for PA programs, I would definitely highly recommend finding a program that's accredited. The next thing is the percent that graduates. So if a school has a high percentage of student graduation, that would demonstrate that they've got a proven track record of successful students. That would be one I would have my eye on the PANCE rate. The PANCE is the national certification exam for PAs that you take when you are done school. The PANCE rate at any given program is a reflection of how well they're preparing their students, so take a look at that. If they don't have a high PANCE rate, you might want to wonder what's going on with the program. Next admission requirements. We talked about this at the outset, but every school has slightly different expectations aside from the very basics. You need to be on their websites looking at exactly what is required of, let's say, GW versus the University of Maryland. The next thing is the program's mission and culture. What is that learning environment like? Do they promote student well-being? Do they have counselors? Do they have a beautiful library you can go sit in if you just need to study? I think the program, mission, and culture, short of looking at their website, visiting like we talked about, and talking with students. Next, support services. The coursework is very rigorous. It's a rigorous 24-months to three years. So, how are they going to help their students through it and the family members? I will tell you what, I don't know who you might be living with at the time during PA school, and it might just be yourself, or you might have a roommate, but the demands that get placed on them from the stress you may or may not bring home may mandate support services for them as well. So, does the program have that for other family or friends? Equipment and technology. Is there access to study areas? We talked about a library and simulation centers. Is there a lab to go work in? What kind of IT equipment do they have? Are you buying your own laptop? Are they providing it for you? These are things you want to be thinking about as well. The last piece of this is graduate support. So you're about to graduate PA school, is your program helping you? How do you get your first job? How am I going to write my resume? How am I going to go find my first job, interview for my first job, decide on my first job? How am I going to repay my loans? How am I going to negotiate my first contract? So 15 things: Location, size, length of program, curriculum, clinical rotations, cost, accreditation, graduate pass rate, admission requirements, program mission and culture, support services, opportunities to excel, equipment, tech, and graduate support. John: I love it, Katie. That's awesome, and we're going to have a link to this because this is quite a list. I imagine that if you're not tracking all of these things, you don't want any one of them to fall through the crack. But I have a curveball question for you. You said a couple of things that got me thinking, and I'm curious: PA school as a second career. If you're considering becoming a PA as a second career, A) is it possible, and B) what sort of considerations would you place more weight on? Katy: Yeah, fabulous question. So we call this the non-traditional route. Where you may have decided on a career change, or you've entered into the PA realm later in life. So what do we need to place emphasis on? You won't get any passes in terms of needing to meet the requirements. And I have to say, this is where CapYear comes in. They are going to help you meet the two fundamental, top requirements. Those are getting your patient care hours and getting application support for those personal statements, describing your experiences, et cetera. CapYear’s going to be able to bring that home for you in just one short year, which is amazing. To acquire the amount of patient care hours that most of these programs need you to have can take years. I'm talking about working as an emergency medical technician for 2, 3, 4 years. And so, you know,...
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CapYear Cast - Dr. Deborah Gutman
06/23/2022
CapYear Cast - Dr. Deborah Gutman
Welcome to the inaugural episode of the CapYear Cast! Joining us for our first interview is Dr. Deborah Gutman. Dr. Gutman is an emergency physician at Boston's Brigham & Women's Hospital, the face behind AdmissionsRX.com, and a clinical assistant professor at Brown University. If that weren't enough, she is also a strategic advisor and lead educator here at CapYear. Needless to say, Dr. Gutrman knows medicine and medical school admissions inside and out, and in this conversation, she gets into the things graduates and future graduates should be doing now to get a jump on their applications. Anyone considering a career in medicine will find some good takeaways here. Thanks for listening & subscribe for updates! Graduates (& soon to be graduates) - Get clinical experience and a paycheck! Create your FREE profile on to find employers looking to hire pre-health graduates and current students. Plus you can find a growing number of clinical research positions. Applying to Medical or PA school? CapYear offers application support and career advice from physicians, PAs, and nurses to launch your career and make your application for MD/PA school stand out from the crowd. Providers - CapYear saves time and money by proactively sourcing applicants for your positions from a pool of diverse, college-educated talent looking for clinical positions to launch their careers. The future PAs, nurses, and physicians of America can fill many entry-level clinical positions, support your team and help deliver a great patient experience. Visit our job board, post a job, and let our team get to work for you today! For more information on gap year placement, medical assistant hiring, or MD/PA school application support, please email us at Transcript below: John: Hi, this is John Walkup, and welcome to the inaugural CapYear Cast. Today's episode features Dr. Deborah Gutman. She's the face behind AdmissionsRX.com, which is a website that helps you with your medical school applications, and she's also a founding member here of the CapYear team. So Dr. Gutman, welcome to the inaugural episode of CapYear Cast. Dr. Gutman: Thank you. I'm very excited to talk about med school admission. John: Well, great. So it's, it's very apropos today because I understand it's submission day today. So today is May 31st. We're recording this a little bit in advance, but I also understand that the medical school application process is nonstop. So even though it's submission day, if you're not submitting, what are the things you should be looking out for? Dr. Gutman: Yeah, so for many it's submission day. So for starters, there are multiple application services. So there's actually multiple dates of submission day. Today is the main one, which is AMCAS, which is applying for allopathic medical schools. The osteopathic medical schools have a separate application service, which has already been in process, so submission was earlier in the month. And then Texas has its own application service as well. So all the Texas medical schools use a completely separate application process. And that started earlier in the month as well. And then there's some overlap. So there are students who are still waiting to hear back from the last cycle. And so it is a bit of a continuous process in terms of thinking about how to prepare. Generally the preparation comes way before submission day, right? So it needs to be happening during your undergraduate years when you’re thinking about this day, several years ahead of time in terms of getting your ducks in a row in terms of planning your activities and getting the experiences that you need, and then in terms of planning your application, generally that should be happening several months ahead of time as well. John: Interesting. So when is it too early to start, or is it never too early to start this process? Dr. Gutman: It's kind of never too early. In an ideal world, students would be keeping a journal from day one. Really the med school application process requires a degree of reflection that we're not really used to doing for maybe a job application or even a school application. So they're really having you reflect on the competencies that you've developed. And the best way to do that is often through storytelling or examples of some of the experiences you've had over the undergraduate years. And so, That can be pretty challenging to remember four years later. So, you know, honestly, from day one, probably the best thing a student can do is keep some sort of journal based on the experiences they're doing, research, the service, the leadership, their clinical experiences, and that way they can really when it comes time to do the writing and think about how they're going to present themselves on an application really. Stuff they can look at to see their growth over the last four years. John: That's interesting because you talk about the self-discovery process, and I understand that from the, from the standpoint of an application because, you know, if I think about a general application, right, it's fill in the blank, make sure it's got some postage on it, get it in the mail. But there's another part to that, which is sort of presenting the, the sort of fullness of yourself to the applications committee. And I can see that from the application perspective, but I’m wondering about it from the applicant's perspective. What sort of self-discovery does one need to go through to sort of understand if this process is actually for you? Dr. Gutman: So I mean, there's a couple of things. One, think about the last time you went and saw a doctor and what you expect your doctor to be like, right? Those. Benchmarks are pretty high, right? So, you know, it is one of the few careers where your communication skills need to be on par, and your scientific competencies need to be on par. The AMC, which is the overseeing body for medical education, does have a set of core competencies that they list that can be found easily on Google of what they expect an entering medical. Student to look like in terms of their life competencies. And you know, not surprisingly, we, many of those are professional competencies. Some many are communication competencies, and then the rest are scientific and sort of educational competencies. So it is a big ask, but, you know, doctoring is a big job where you really do need to have all of those things in place. And so the first reflection before someone even thinks about applying is it, am I ready to apply? Have I really done the work to develop those competencies? You know, have I been involved in altruistic things and service to others? Have I gotten the clinical experience that allows me to understand what a physician looks like and what they do? Have I done the research and sort of done pretty solid scientific inquiry so that I can understand the data that I need to make decisions for patients? So you know, that self-assessment really should be done before you even decide if you're going to apply. John: Is, is that something that schools can help with? Are there processes in place at the undergraduate level to help with that, or is that something that really falls on an applicant's shoulders? Dr. Gutman: I mean, a little bit of both, right? So if you're at a school that has a fairly strong pre-health advising program, they absolutely should be the ones helping you work through that. And honestly, from day one, the premed curriculum, even just the course requirements to apply to med school, are fairly rigorous and if you don't start them early, it's very hard to complete them in four years. So there's a solid year of biology with lab, a year of chemistry with lab, a year of organic chemistry with lab, a year of physics with lab, biochemistry, sociology, psychology, to really lay out that coursework. There usually is some sort of advisor meant to help you do that, and that same advisor should be guiding you in terms of getting those experiences you need as well. So in a school with strong prehealth advising, yes, that should be available. Where there is no pre-health advising, there actually are national organizations that provide free advising. The NAHP does provide advisors from other schools to students who may not have access to advising at their own school, but it's very hard to catch up later in the game. There are students who do it, and that's why gap years are becoming more common. It's sort of hard to get that all done in four years. So you also want to be doing well academically. The average entering GPA for a med student is about 3.76 right now. And so you're doing that rigorous scientific coursework, keeping yourself mostly in that A and B range, and then also theoretically doing research, community service, and clinical experience. It can be pretty challenging and it's sort of leaned towards people taking additional time off after school. John: Very interesting. I'd like to pivot a little bit because I think you brought up something very interesting, which is the concept of a gap year. And the applicant pool is highly competitive, right? Average 3.76 GPA out of 60,000 applications submitted? 22,000 were accepted. So it's not the easiest thing in the world. And so, the gap year can really be used almost to set your application apart. But I'm wondering: is it something that you should pursue? And I suppose the answer's not generic for everyone, but should it be on the scientific path? Should it be just work experience in general? Should you be trying to get patient experience? I know there's not one route for everybody, but what are some key things that applicant should look for? Dr. Gutman: So obviously it will be individual. Cause some of that will be doing that self-assessment. Sitting down, you know, when you're about to graduate and thinking, what have I not been able to work on, right? Like, what have I not experienced that I need to experience in order to put myself in the best position to apply? That tends to fall in either clinical experience just because, well, one, with the pandemic recently, that became much more challenging for students to get into the clinical environment or research. And that's more just to do with your school's infrastructure and whether there were opportunities to do the kind of research you want to do. Then honestly, a big bucket where people. Clinical research, because that actually gets you a little bit of both. So that's usually research that's patient facing. And so you'll be interacting with patients in a research capacity, but you'll be in a clinical setting and also, you know, participating in rigorous research. So that's a common opportunity people take advantage of during their gap year. For some students, they got all the experience they needed and they just want to explore an area of passion or interest. So they'll do Teach for America, they'll do Fulbright scholarships, they'll do you know, international travel. So it doesn't even necessarily have to be medically related. Sometimes it's just a growth year, just like the increasing gap years between high school and college. It's just an extra year to gain some maturity and maybe make a definitive decision about whether medicine is something you want to pursue because it is a long pathway. John: I mean, it is a long pathway, and that's a great question: does it hurt your application to do non-medical things? And I guess the question becomes sort of, is there ever a point in this application when too much, too much scientific, too much, you know, a hardcore medical background is, is going to actually hurt your application. Do medical schools like to see some sort of well-rounded applicant? Dr. Gutman: It's sort of an interesting question because I talk to my students about this all the time. They, unfortunately, want a little bit of both, right? So they want someone who's well-rounded, so they want you to have all those competencies, right? They want you to have all the traits and experiences we would expect of our future physicians. But they also like students who are angular, right? Who have a particular niche area of interest so that, you know, a lot of deans will phrase it as “medicine and” How are you going to be a future change agent? What cause are you going to take on that you're going to move forward? And as there are more and more types of healthcare providers in medicine, you know, The question is what's going to distinguish the physician, right? So, you know, what role is that physician going to take on the healthcare team? And generally that is going to be in a leadership capacity or a research capacity or something that sort of moves benison forward because that's where we have that additional kind of years of training or expertise. And so med schools really have focused on that. So are you going to be someone who gets very involved and health systems change? Are you going to be someone who really works on maternal care in this country. Or is there a particular patient group that interests you? Or are you going to be an innovator and develop the next technology for surgery? Are you going to be the next da Vinci inventor? Right? So they're, look, they are looking for that “medicine and.” Of course we still need clinicians. We just still need people to do primary care. We very much need people for primary care. That's also something that would make someone stand out, someone who really is just interested in straight-up patient care, preventive health. So but yeah, they want well-rounded. They want you to be able to do the work of a physician, but they also want students who are going to be future change agents. John: So if you're doing it's safe to say, I suppose if you're going to do a gap year, make it a productive gap year. Backpacking around Europe is, is fantastic, but it's probably better to do something either in a patient related setting or work in a scientific setting. And if not, do something with, with purpose, whether that's, as you said, Teach for America or something in a leadership position where you're actually a force for change versus sort of just taking it easy for a year. Dr. Gutman: And interestingly, CapYear. You know, that idea of capstone is sort of what you want to be doing with the gap year. The idea of a capstone project is taking several interests and trying to merge them into one activity. How can I take something I've already learned a little bit about and take it one step forward, whether it's in a leadership role, whether it's in a full immersion or exploring an burgeoning area of interest, like global health. If you didn't get to do that when you were an undergraduate, maybe it's a good year to travel to another country and see what medicine's like in a different health system. So kind of that sort of more capstone experience, that's very hard to do when you're also doing your classwork. John: So let me try to bring it back to the application. You've summed all this up, and it's really phenomenal. At the end, you have this application you submitted, they have all these interviews. There's an interview process, whether it's online… Wait, I don't know, do they still do in-person interviews? I'm not sure if that's a thing again. Dr. Gutman: Sort of slowly shifting back, but it's because you're probably going to be a hybrid. John: So you're, you're face-to-face with the applicant evaluators, and the question comes up about what you've done in your gap year and you're kind of talking about yourself and some of your activities. And maybe it's not your gap year, maybe it's just you're talking about yourself. How braggy, for lack of a better word, should one be. Dr. Gutman: Well seeing as the majority of perfectionists applying to med school tend to have imposter syndrome. I, I lean towards bragging. I mean, I don't like the word brag, but I think people do tend to underestimate their accomplishments. And so I'd say there's a balance between really being clear that you've accomplished something and, you know, bragging is that tip over of like, you think you're the best at something, right? That's a different story. But I do think you should not be shy away. Talking about things you've accomplished. And I would think in my experience with applicants, they lean towards the non-bragging side where they think a lot of the things they've done are inconsequential when they really are consequential in terms of, you know, either the competencies they've developed or leadership skills they've acquired. So if I had to lean one way, it would be, to go for it. Brag. John: Well, it circles back to what you're talking about earlier, the self-discovery process. So if you're keeping a journal while you're, while you're working or you're out and about, list these things that you've done and keep a running tally, of what's been good, how you've, how you've felt during this process. Because I think it all will come back to sort of support your view on what you've learned. Dr. Gutman: Yeah. And I think, you know, as most adults, like, you know, we forget some of the things we've accomplished. You know, this is why we go back. We look through yearbooks, we look through, you know, and this is what I encourage students to do. We're, we're pretty good at forgetting things we've accomplished or the learning process, right? It's like, once you know how to ride a bike, you forget about what it was like to learn and ride a bike. But in your application, you really do want to talk about that process of learning to ride the bike because that part, the learning part, is a transferrable skill, right? And med school is going to be all brand new. And what they're really trying to figure out is how do you learn, how do you function in a team? How do you, you know, and so you did learn to do those things at some point. You just forgot because now you know how to do that. So, you know, I think some other function going back and thinking, how did I get here? What were the things I did where I learned how to do this? How did I learn to talk to other people who were unlike myself? Just saying it isn't convincing to people, you have to give them the evidence, right? The data. I learned how to actively listen to people But you forget you learned it, so that's where the journaling and sitting down and really thinking about the stuff matters. I've had students say, “I have a publication. Should I put that on my application?” And I was like, you know, how many undergraduate students do you think have published literature in big scientific journals? Not that many, but I think they just take it for granted. So yes, I think that reflection piece, that's where the work of the application is. It’s going back and remembering: how did I learn to do these things I'm saying I know how to do? And being able to present that to an admissions committee in a believable way. John: Right. And I think for a lot of scientific types it's very easy to do data collection, especially when you're when you're dealing with data. But you have to sort of shift and do data collection sort of on, on the social side of things. Dr. Gutman: That's correct. That is another analogy I use for students who get really stuck by scientists. I'll just say do research on yourself. It's like qualitative research. Go back and ask yourself the question: how did I learn to talk to people who aren't like me? Because you did at some point learn to do that. But you have to be able to demonstrate. Explain to someone with those behavioral questions, they want an example of how you learn that. So, you know, do the research. Go back and think about how you learned how to do these things and be able to demonstrate that in written form on your application. You know, when they're looking at 60,000 applications, you know some of the schools that get the higher number of applications get 18,000 applications. You. They do...
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