BTW EP 20: Inventive Incentives: Jason Brown on Procurement Incentive Structures
Release Date: 10/15/2025
846: Building Agility Through Emergency Procurement Readiness W/ Rick Bond and Tammy Rimes
Art of Procurement
“The first time that you speak with a supplier shouldn’t be in a time of crisis. Our best customers work with us regularly, and we're constantly hearing from them.” - Rick Bond, Chief Revenue Officer, Safeware When a crisis hits, procurement must move at lightning speed… but without cutting corners. How do public agencies build systems that are nimble, compliant, and ready for anything? The answer to that question lies in proactive preparation, robust cooperative agreements, and the partnerships that power an effective emergency response. In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks...
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BTW EP 24: Phil-out Season Finale: A Procurement Roast With Purpose
Art of Procurement
After 23 episodes of dissecting procurement’s incentive flaws, behavioral blind spots, and structural contradictions, the “Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement” podcast team closes season one with something different: reflection, humor, a little chaos, and a first look at what comes next. In this episode, Rich Ham seizes the mic for a surprise “hostile takeover,” pulling Philip Ideson and Kelly Barner into a rapid-fire look back at the most memorable moments of the season. What follows is part game show, part roast, and part highlight reel. In short, the perfect way to close a...
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845: Inside the AI Foundation Behind Next-Gen Procurement W/ Fang Chang
Art of Procurement
“If you don’t go on the journey, you risk being left behind. The key is to try, learn, and apply AI in a way that creates real value.” - Fang Chang, EVP and Chief Product Officer at SAP AI isn’t just another feature on your tech checklist. It’s changing the way procurement teams deliver impact… but only for those bold enough to rethink from the ground up. In this podcast episode, host Philip Ideson speaks with Fang Chang, EVP and Chief Product Officer at SAP, who shares what it looks like to rebuild an established platform like Ariba on a true AI foundation. Fang’s team...
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BTW EP 23: The Phil-Ins: The Procurement Performance Paradox
Art of Procurement
After nearly a year of exploring procurement’s incentive paradox from every angle, Philip Ideson, Rich Ham, and Kelly Barner reconvene to connect the dots between three of the series’ most thought-provoking guests: Jason Brown, David Loseby, and Omid Ghamami. Each offered a distinct lens on the same fundamental question: What does performance really mean in procurement today? Jason Brown framed incentives as an operating system: a structure that shapes behavior and defines what purpose looks like in practice. David Loseby reminded us that real change starts with understanding people, not...
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844: Contracting for Speed: How Orchestration Empowers Procurement W/ Clare Cassano and Toby Laforest
Art of Procurement
“Your contracts are your source of truth. You should have a tool that can go through the contracts and help you understand the impact and make an assessment, all in one place.” -Toby Laforest, Senior Director PMM - Market Insights and Solutions at Ironclad Procurement leaders can no longer afford to wait for requests to land in their inbox. Facing regulatory change, market volatility, and growing demand for business partnership, some organizations are reimagining their procurement operating models and putting technology and process both front and center. In this Art of...
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843: How Change Management Powers Procurement Transformation W/ Jesse Jacoby
Art of Procurement
“Taking the time to get input, to get the feedback and listen to the needs might add a few weeks up front, but ultimately, you're going to have a better, stronger solution and support and alignment.” - Jesse Jacoby, Founder and Managing Principal, Emergent, LLC Procurement and business leaders face a tangled web: legacy systems, evolving digital capabilities, and rising pressure to do more with less. How do you design an operating model that truly enables transformation without adding more complexity? In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Jesse Jacoby, Founder and Managing...
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843: The Future Is Frictionless: Simplifying Procurement with Tech and Trust W/ Todd Heimes
Art of Procurement
“We want our customers to be able to put their own internal procurement rules into our Amazon Business marketplace, so they can feel secure and still get that great experience.” - Todd Heimes, Vice President and General Manager, Amazon Business Worldwide Right now, procurement leaders are balancing pressure to deliver savings, manage risk, and remove barriers for business users. As organizations get more complex, the need for connected digital procurement – and real-time, actionable insights – makes all the difference. In this episode, Philip Ideson speaks with Todd Heimes, Vice...
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BTW EP 22: Challenging Procurement’s Most Comfortable (Bad) Habits
Art of Procurement
Procurement’s problem isn’t speed. It’s form. They’ve gotten great at automating and accelerating weak processes while quietly rewarding the “good contract, bad deal” mentality that ultimately undercuts their own efforts. In this podcast episode of “Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement,” Omid Ghamami, president of the Procurement and Supply Chain Management Institute and former Intel purchasing operations leader, joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to challenge procurement’s most comfortable (bad) habits. He argues that the function claims victory at...
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841: Three AI-Powered Opportunities: Assist, Augment, Autonomize W/ Etosha Thurman
Art of Procurement
“If your only role is cost management and processes, that’s scary to me. The value of procurement is so much more than that.” – Etosha Thurman, Chief Marketing Officer, Finance and Spend Management at SAP AI is rapidly changing procurement’s mandate and the expectations that business leaders now have. Technology is no longer just digitizing processes; it’s opening the door to new operating models and deeper business impact. To thrive, procurement teams must deliver far more than savings. They must bring innovation, resilience, and data-driven influence to the table. In this...
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839: Building Data-Driven Procurement at Scale W/ Adrian Vicol
Art of Procurement
“The value you bring as a procurement function has transcended being a cost saver. They are now a discussion partner with other functions and bring value in the form of intelligence.” - Adrian Vicol, Data Strategy Lead & Data Architect, Siemens Energy Procurement leaders are facing more complex questions about data than ever before. As organizations move toward AI and automation, the need for clean, reliable, and actionable data is skyrocketing – but most teams are still wrestling with legacy challenges and data silos. Getting this right is no longer optional; it’s becoming...
info_outlineProcurement doesn’t just have a measurement problem. It has a motivation problem.
Behind every misaligned target, every “savings” claim, and every missed opportunity is the same invisible culprit: incentives that quietly tell people to do the wrong things well.
In this episode of Buy: The Way…To Purposeful Procurement, Jason Brown, accounting professor at Indiana University and longtime corporate incentives expert, joins co-hosts Philip Ideson and Rich Ham to expose how organizational reward systems shape behavior far more powerfully than strategy or mission statements ever could. He explains why even the most principled teams end up chasing metrics that distort procurement’s purpose, and why rethinking incentive design may be the key to unlocking true business alignment.
Drawing from decades of academic research and corporate consulting, Jason unpacks the subtle ways procurement incentives drift off course: how bonus structures reward volume over value, how finance and procurement end up speaking different dialects of “performance,” and how organizations confuse compliance with contribution. He also brings attention to the rare examples of companies that have broken these patterns by tying procurement’s rewards directly to shared outcomes that improve EBITDA, resilience, and stakeholder trust.
This conversation challenges a fundamental assumption: can procurement ever be purposeful if its people are rewarded for something other than real impact?
As Jason argues, until incentives reflect what actually matters to the business and society, procurement will remain stuck in a cycle of performative alignment where everyone looks busy but the enterprise stands still.
According to Jason, the truth may be uncomfortable, but it’s exactly what procurement needs to hear. Incentive design isn’t a soft topic or a side project. It’s the operating system of purposeful procurement, and it’s long overdue for an upgrade.