Less Pressure, More Productivity: Rethinking BCBA Billable Hours | Session 340 with Matt Linder
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Release Date: 10/14/2026
Less Pressure, More Productivity: Rethinking BCBA Billable Hours | Session 340 with Matt Linder
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
What happens when an organization responds to a productivity problem by lowering its billable-hour requirement? In Session 340 the Behavioral Observations Podcast, , Chief Operating Officer of , and Founder and CEO of , joins me to discuss an organizational challenge that will be familiar to many ABA providers: high BCBA turnover, low morale, and a compensation system built around demanding billable-hour expectations. Matt describes how the existing system required BCBAs to average 28 billable hours per week and included consequences for falling short of those expectations. At the same time,...
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Are we thinking about prompts all wrong? Session 339 with Andy Bondy
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
What exactly do we mean when we say we're "fading" a prompt? Is a physical prompt inherently more intrusive—or more difficult to eliminate—than a gestural or verbal prompt? And what does "errorless learning" actually tell us about the teaching procedures we're using? Dr. Andy Bondy returns to the podcast to tackle these questions through the lens of gradualism: the idea that meaningful behavioral change often emerges through small changes that accumulate over time. Andy has recently been presenting on gradualism to behavior analysts and other professionals, and in this conversation we...
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Safety, Dignity, and Clinical Judgement in Skills Based Treatment: Session 338 with Cory Whelan
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
What does it look like to assess and treat severe problem behavior when safety concerns have become so significant that a student can no longer participate successfully in their typical school environment? In this episode, joins me to discuss his work at , where he and have developed an intensive model for assessing and treating dangerous behavior while helping students build the skills they'll need to return to less restrictive settings. Cory brings an unusual perspective to this work. He is dually certified as a speech-language pathologist and behavior analyst, and...
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What is Gestalt Language Processing? Session 337 with Kathleen Oppenheimer
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Gestalt Language Processing (GLP) and Natural Language Acquisition (NLA) have become extraordinarily popular in speech-language pathology, particularly in conversations about autistic children who use echolalia. But what exactly is a "Gestalt Language Processor?" How would we know if someone is one? And perhaps most importantly, what does the research actually tell us about the claims and treatment recommendations associated with GLP and NLA? In this episode, I’m joined by speech-language pathologist , who has spent considerable time examining these questions through the lens of...
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What is Facilitated Communication? BOP Rewind | Session 199/336 | Jason Travers
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Welcome to Session 336 The Behavioral Observations Podcast. Well technically, this is actually Session 199, and I wanted to take a minute to explain why you're hearing a rebroadcast. This conversation with Dr. Jason Travers originally aired back in September of 2022, but I've decided it's worth bringing back because, unfortunately, the issues surrounding Facilitated Communication haven't gone away. In fact, if anything, they've become more relevant. Over the past several years, we've continued to see heartwarming news stories and viral social media posts featuring non-speaking autistic...
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Conducta Verbal: Cultura, Contexto y Comunicación Funcional | BOP en ESP 18 con Janet Enriquez
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
En este episodio, Miguel conversa con Janet sobre la conducta verbal desde una perspectiva práctica y cultural. A lo largo de la conversación, exploran por qué la conducta verbal sigue siendo una de las áreas más importantes —y a veces más incomprendidas— dentro del análisis de conducta y la educación. Janet comparte su trayectoria como latina, educadora, investigadora y líder en múltiples iniciativas dentro del campo, así como su experiencia trabajando con comunidades bilingües y culturalmente diversas. Juntos discuten conceptos fundamentales de la conducta verbal,...
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Essential for Living in Action: Building Meaningful Skills Through Everyday Events | Session 334 with Kristina Montgomery and Emily Beal Wilkinson
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
Many behavior analysts have experienced the frustration of teaching a skill successfully in one setting only to discover that it doesn't transfer to the situations where it actually matters. In this episode, I sit down with and of Victory Academy to discuss how Essential for Living (EFL) and event-based teaching can help bridge that gap. Kristina and Emily share their professional journeys into behavior analysis and describe how discovering Dr. Patrick McGreevy's Essential for Living framework reshaped their approach to supporting learners with limited skill repertoires....
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Beyond 80% Correct: Rethinking Mastery Criteria in ABA: Session 333 with Sarah Richling & Dan Fienup
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
How do we determine when a learner has truly mastered a skill? In behavior analysis, performance criteria such as "80% correct across two sessions" have become nearly ubiquitous. Yet despite their widespread use, many practitioners may be surprised to learn that these criteria have relatively little direct empirical support. In this episode, I'm joined by Drs. Sarah Richling and Dr. Daniel Fienup to discuss the history, research, and practical implications of mastery criteria in applied behavior analysis. Drawing on their independent lines of research, Sarah and Dan examine how different...
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Helping Complex Kids Thrive Through Practical Behavioral Parenting Strategies: Jenny Demark, Linda Reinstein and Conrad Leung | Session 332
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
In this episode, I’m joined by , , and to talk about their new book, . These are clinicians who’ve spent years working directly with families dealing with everything from emotion regulation challenges, to childhood anxiety, to severe behavioral challenges, and what I liked about this conversation is that it stayed extremely practical throughout. We spent a lot of time talking about their “Prepare, Teach, Motivate” framework, and how parents and professionals can think more systematically about helping kids build resilience and coping skills rather than just reacting to challenging...
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Supporting Individuals With Severe Problem Behavior Through Collaboration: Session 331 with Ben Seifert
The Behavioral Observations Podcast with Matt Cicoria
In Session 331, I sat down with to talk about some of the most challenging — and important — work happening in applied behavior analysis today: supporting individuals with severe problem behavior. Ben shared his journey into the field, beginning with his early experiences at Lindamood-Bell and later at under the mentorship of Carl Sundberg and others who helped shape his clinical perspective. Along the way, we discussed what originally drew him toward working with clients who many providers often avoid, and why he remains deeply committed to ensuring that all...
info_outlineWhat happens when an organization responds to a productivity problem by lowering its billable-hour requirement?
In Session 340 the Behavioral Observations Podcast, Matt Linder, Chief Operating Officer of First Children's Services, and Founder and CEO of Desired Effect Coaching Solutions, joins me to discuss an organizational challenge that will be familiar to many ABA providers: high BCBA turnover, low morale, and a compensation system built around demanding billable-hour expectations.
Matt describes how the existing system required BCBAs to average 28 billable hours per week and included consequences for falling short of those expectations. At the same time, the organization was experiencing substantial BCBA turnover, with 31 BCBAs leaving over an 18-month period.
Rather than simply increasing pressure to meet productivity expectations, Matt helped redesign the system.
The organization lowered required billable hours by approximately four hours per week while maintaining salaries, and introduced a positive reinforcement-based bonus system that allowed BCBAs to earn additional compensation for exceeding their targets and supervising behavior technicians.
How did this all work out? Tune in to hear how making these somewhat counterintuitive changes substantially reduced turnover and increased productivity.
During our conversation, Matt and I discuss:
- Why the original compensation and productivity system was creating problems.
- How turnover costs helped make the business case for changing the system.
- The decision to lower billable-hour requirements while maintaining BCBA salaries.
- Shifting from punitive contingencies to a bonus system based on positive reinforcement.
- Creating a transparent compensation calculator so employees could see how the new system would affect their earnings.
- The importance of employee feedback and trust during organizational change.
- Monitoring for unintended consequences when changing performance contingencies.
- Why financial and productivity measures aren't sufficient without meaningful measures of clinical outcomes.
- Developing career ladders and leadership opportunities for RBTs.
- Lessons for behavior analysts who want to begin doing OBM work.
Matt also discusses several initiatives currently underway at First Children's Services, including improved measurement of clinical outcomes, an RBT career ladder and mentorship system, and the integration of newly acquired private schools.
Toward the end of the conversation, Matt offers a useful starting point for behavior analysts interested in OBM: identify clearly what you're trying to accomplish, determine how you're going to measure it, and then use behavioral principles to evaluate whether the changes you make are actually producing the outcomes you want.
Resources:
- First Children's Services: firstchildrenservices.com
- Careers at First Children's Services
- Matt Linder: [email protected]
- Abernathy (2009): Walden Two Revisited: Optimizing Behavioral Systems
- Abernathy (1996): The Sin of Wages: Where the Conventional Pay System has Led Us, and How to Find a Way Out
- Binder (2024): The Value in Focusing on Work Outputs
Sponsor shoutouts!
- Behavior University. Their mission is to provide university quality professional development for the busy Behavior Analyst. Learn about their CEU offerings, including their 8-hour Supervision Course, as well as their RBT offerings over at behavioruniversity.com/observations. Don't forget to use the coupon code, PODCAST to save at checkout!
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- HRIC Recruting. Cut out the middleman and speak directly with Barbara Voss, who's been placing BCBAs in great jobs all across the US for 15 years.
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