loader from loading.io

Is Racial Reconciliation and a Healthy Multicultural Church Possible? An interview with Latasha Morrison

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Release Date: 06/26/2025

Is Racial Reconciliation and a Healthy Multicultural Church Possible? An interview with Latasha Morrison show art Is Racial Reconciliation and a Healthy Multicultural Church Possible? An interview with Latasha Morrison

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

One my favorite books this year was Be The Bridge: Pursuing God’s Heart for Racial Reconciliation by Latasha Morrison. A wonderful book that is challenging but also compassionate and full of grace. We’ve waded into conversations like this recently with Nikki Lerner, Darwin Hobbs, and David Gate. Why are we doing this? Because I truly believe it matters. It matters for our souls, our relationships, our churches, and our nation. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend like it’s not an issue or we can move closer to one another be the bridge in this work of reconciliation. Latasha...

info_outline
Reimagining the Worship Industry with Chris McClarney & Jesse Phillips show art Reimagining the Worship Industry with Chris McClarney & Jesse Phillips

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

So we talk a lot about the worship industry on this podcast. Sometimes that conversation can result in a let’s just wine and complain about how awful it is. But my guests today are not content with that sort of negativity! It will not be tolerated! But here’s the reality: The music industry is built on financial inequality and the worship industry is no different. Those at the top often make a killing, while many musicians and artists struggle to survive. I sat down with @cmcclarney & @thejessephillips from @realfunrecords to talk about it. We’re pulling back the worship industry...

info_outline
The Church, Culture, & How Jesus Changes Everything with Stanley Hauerwas show art The Church, Culture, & How Jesus Changes Everything with Stanley Hauerwas

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Today’s conversation is a bit of a departure from our usual worship leader/worship industry conversation. I’m talking with Stanley Hauerwas. Here’s his bio: Stanley Hauerwas, a theologian and Christian ethicist, is professor emeritus of theological ethics and of law at Duke University. He is the author or editor of more than fifty books, including Resident Aliens: Life in the Christian Colony (1989), which he co-authored with William H. Willimon. His lower-middle-class upbringing informed his later approach to theological and ethical questions (at one point, he was...

info_outline
Christianity in Chaos? How We Can Find Our Way in an Age of Confusion & Corruption with Glenn Packiam show art Christianity in Chaos? How We Can Find Our Way in an Age of Confusion & Corruption with Glenn Packiam

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Topics Covered: We talk about how we can glean insights from various church traditions Why creeds are important Why the church’s reputation is suffering in America today How lead pastors and worship leaders can understand each other better What to look for in hiring a worship pastor. So let’s get right to my conversation with Glenn Packiam. Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Glenn Packiam website by Reed Hastings & Erin Meyer by John Ortberg Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your...

info_outline
Two White Guys Talking About The Black Church, Black Music, & Black Liberation (An Interview with David Gate) show art Two White Guys Talking About The Black Church, Black Music, & Black Liberation (An Interview with David Gate)

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Today’s topic and subject matter is a tough one. I’m talking with my friend David Gate. David is a writer and poet. He has a new book releasing in 2025 called A Rebellion of Care. But David also has a long history as a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. David wrote an article recently in response to the new Ryan Coogler move Sinners, starring Michael B Jordan. The title of that article was I know. It’s a bold, often cutting article. And while I don’t agree with everything he says, I believe he gets to the heart of a tension that many feel. As with most of American culture...

info_outline
The Separation of Church and Concert with Andy Cherry show art The Separation of Church and Concert with Andy Cherry

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Today’s conversation is with my friend Andy Cherry. Andy is a Worship Leader, former Worship Pastor, Songwriter with Capitol CMG, and touring bandmate with Brandon Lake. Andy is mega talented and a thoughtful voice on the tensions of worship and industry. As a professional songwriter, he’s someone whose livelihood is connected to the worship industry. We have a great chat about excellence culture in the church. Has it gone too far? Why it’s uncomfortable to combine the words “worship” and “industry”.   Why we need to expand the kinds of leaders we hire into Worship Pastor...

info_outline
Christian Nationalism and Worship: Faith, Politics, & Identity with Dr. Lester Ruth show art Christian Nationalism and Worship: Faith, Politics, & Identity with Dr. Lester Ruth

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Today’s conversation is with Dr. Lester Ruth, a research professor of Christian Worship at Duke Divinity School. If you go back in the archives you’ll see I interviewed Lester and Swee Hong Lim around the time they released their book A History of Contemporary Praise & Worship. Lester is a worship historian. The subject of this interview is about Christian Nationalism and Worship, a new course that Lester has been teaching. I wanted to interview Lester about this because I believe it has so much relevance to our current political climate, the church, and our worship practices. Now…I...

info_outline
How Industry And Christian Product Has Influenced Worship in the Local Church with Andrew Osenga show art How Industry And Christian Product Has Influenced Worship in the Local Church with Andrew Osenga

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Today’s conversation is with Andrew Osenga. Andrew is an artist, songwriter, producer, musician, and author. He used to do A&R with Integrity Music. Used to have a band called The Normals. Was a part of Caedmon’s Call. Has a host of solo records and albums. He’s a very thoughtful voice in this space of worship and spiritual formation. He leads a project called Anchor Hymns. This was a deep, far ranging conversation. Topics Covered: Why we didn't need to be sheltered from all thing secular How radio and Christian product has influenced our worship songwriting How fundamentalism...

info_outline
Leading Teams and Leading Worship in a Mega Church with Jordan Howerton show art Leading Teams and Leading Worship in a Mega Church with Jordan Howerton

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Today’s conversation is an interesting juxtaposition to last week’s podcast with . Jason leads worship in a church of less than 100 people. Today’s guest - Jordan Howerton - is the Worship Pastor for one of the largest churches in the country - Christ’s Church of the Valley in Phoenix, AZ. If you’ve listened to the my podcast for a while, you’ll know I don’t believe bigger is better. There is beauty in small. There is dignity in serving and pastoring a small church with incremental or slow growth year after year. But for today, I want us to dive into the mega church dynamic. ...

info_outline
Small Church Worship, Click Tracks, & How Anyone Can Make a Worship Album with Jason Houtsma show art Small Church Worship, Click Tracks, & How Anyone Can Make a Worship Album with Jason Houtsma

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

Topics Covered: Playing actual live music in worship The small church community Comparing large church/high production to small church/low production Why you might NOT want to use clicks and tracks Taking risks and being creative in worship again Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor:  (use promo code BEYOND2025) Show Sponsor:  by Jason Houtsma by Chaim Potok Show Sponsor #1: Robert E. Webber Institute for Worship Studies This episode is brought to you by the .  One of the questions I hear often is what are the best ways to further your training as a worship...

info_outline
 
More Episodes

One my favorite books this year was Be The Bridge: Pursuing God’s Heart for Racial Reconciliation by Latasha Morrison. A wonderful book that is challenging but also compassionate and full of grace.

We’ve waded into conversations like this recently with Nikki Lerner, Darwin Hobbs, and David Gate.

Why are we doing this? Because I truly believe it matters. It matters for our souls, our relationships, our churches, and our nation. We can bury our heads in the sand and pretend like it’s not an issue or we can move closer to one another be the bridge in this work of reconciliation.

Latasha founded Be the Bridge in 2016 to encourage racial reconciliation among all ethnicities, to promote racial unity in America, and to equip others to do the same.

In this conversation we go pretty deep. We talk about Latasha’s ministry work, being hired in both black and white churches, brown faces in white spaces (another one of Latasha’s books), the challenge with being a multicultural church today, the church’s complicity in racism throughout history, why facing the darkest parts of our history matters, music and racial bias, and so much more.

Topics Covered:

  • Latasha's church staff experience in black and white churches
  • The courage it takes to pursue multicultural ministry
  • Why multicultural churches are the healthy, growing churches of the future
  • Power dynamics in race relations
  • The differences between white leaders of multicultural churches and black leaders of multicultural churches
  • The church's complicity in racism and why ignoring it is not "unity"
  • Facing the darkest parts of our history with courage
  • Music and racial bias

Resources:

Show Sponsor: Planning Center

My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry.

It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning Planning Center. As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with Planning Center People, you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in.

First, some good news: People is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use People to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically.

In People, you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use People. From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do.