Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

A podcast for worship leaders, pastors, and those invested in a healthier, whole church.

Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey 07/16/2026

Jesus And Therapy, Psychology And Theology with Kate Willsey When I was a young teenager, I heard a traveling evangelist say the best form of therapy was speaking in tongues. The preacher at the time was criticizing modern therapy as unchristian and, ultimately unnecessary. We don’t need to sit in rooms and endless unpack our problems and our past trauma. What people need more than anything - he said - is the presence of God. I understand the sentiment. I love the presence of God. I believe there is tremendous value in spiritual disciplines, practices, and experiences with God. But what happens to our formation as people when we are trained to be skeptical of therapy? How would our relationships be different, our marriages be different, our relationship with God be different if we learned to feel at home in the body God gave us? Where we didn’t feel the need to set aside our humanity for performative piety? What if therapy is a gift from God? I’m not a therapist or an expert on therapy. That’s why I’m talking to Kate Willsey. Kate is a therapist and coach who specializes in religious trauma. She unpacks the tensions inherent at the intersection of the nervous system, theology, and spiritual formation. I’ve been following Kate’s work on social media and have been so blessed by her work. And I thought you would as well. Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to . /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/42112710

The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche 07/03/2026

The Unimpressive, Faithful, And Authentic Worship Leader With Paul Baloche I remember my days as a young worship leader. There was always this unspoken tension between being performative and pastoral. Is it my job as a worship leader to provide a powerful, exciting experience or to guide them in a healthy practice for their spiritual formation? When we say worship was really good this week, what do we mean? If you lead worship, you know the tension. When you put a singer or musician on a stage, under the lights, it is by definition a performance. Performance is not a bad thing,but we, at the same time feel uncomfortable talking about performance when it comes to worship. If you surveyed your congregation, likely most would scoff at the idea of worship as a performance. And yet, we have adopted performative tools in local church ministry. So what do we do? One of the worship leaders that helped me navigate these tensions early on was Paul Baloche. If you don’t know the name Paul Baloche, you likely know his songs. Open The Eyes of My Heart, Above All, or Hosanna (Praise is Rising) have been staple songs in churches all over the world, and that’s only scratching the surface of the sheer number of songs he’s written. But what I love most about Paul is not his songwriting prowess but the fact that he’s truly a normal guy like the rest of us. In a marketplace of worship that has often been defined by what is trending, cool, and exciting, Paul has been faithfully leading the church and coaching worship leaders on how to be themselves and lead with authenticity. Paul is no stranger to the Beyond Sunday Podcast. And it was refreshing to catch up and talk all things worship. Even do some reminiscing about earlier eras of worship leading in the 80s and 90s. Topics Covered: The story behind Paul's new album How Paul was discovered by Integrity Music in 1992 How to resist performative ministry The call to worship leader authenticity Why everyone struggles with insecurity The story behind Paul's new record Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Paul Baloche Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sunda /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/41954295

Empire, Resistance, And Faith On The Margins With Kat Armas 06/19/2026

Empire, Resistance, And Faith On The Margins With Kat Armas If you’re like me, a child of the 80s, you grew up watching Star Wars. I understood a lot about Star Wars but what I didn’t understand at the time was how political it was. The empire and the rebellion. Resistance. Fighting for the underdog and the oppressed. Fighting for an alternative way of being that is not dictated by empire. One of my goals with this podcast is to create a diverse platform of voices within the church. Voices on the margins. Artists on the margins. Theologians on the margins. One of those important voices is author and Cuban-American theologian Kat Armas. One of my favorite books this year is her new book Liturgies for Resisting Empire. This is a conversation about reimagination. Decolonization. Reclaiming agency. Seeing the beauty in humanity in dehumanizing times. There’s a lot here, but the entire conversation is worth your time if you like to be challenged, stretched, and gain perspective from a different vantage point in a global and diverse Christianity. Topics Covered: The importance of listening to marginalized people Deconstruction vs Decolonization How the Bible is co-opted in support of various political agendas Why The United States of America can't be de-colonized How to resist empire Global missions and colonialism How to care for those who have deconstructed their faith Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Kat Armas by Kat Armas by Kat Armas by Richard Powers Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/41703930

The Uncomfortable Intersection Of Business And Worship with Anna Golden 06/10/2026

The Uncomfortable Intersection Of Business And Worship with Anna Golden The idea of worship is simple. Uncomplicated. When you think about it, worship is ascribing worth to someone or something. As people of faith, we ascribe to God the worth, praise and adoration that He is due. But worship that intersects with industry and organizations is inherently complicated. That doesn’t mean it’s wrong. That the worship industry is wrong or all mega church worship is unbiblical. What it means that it’s complicated and it’s worth the wrestle. Today’s guest is Anna Golden - a worship leader, songwriter, and artist. Anna is a worship leader at Shoreline City Church in Dallas and has a wonderful new worship album out called Just Us. My favorite song on the project is called Uncomplicated - and that’s what I wanted to talk with Anna about. In what ways have we complicated worship individually and corporately? What are the current tensions within the worship industry? We discuss tools and tips for worship leaders. And as a bonus, we both talk about our background as homeschoolers raised in the church and how that has shaped who we are today. Topics Covered: The oddities of growing up homeschooled Anna's faith tradition growing up Valuable skills worship leaders learn from Pentecostal traditions What my homeschool journey looked like The tension of ministry and money The story behind Anna's new record How we complicate faith and following Jesus Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: (use link for 50% off) Show Sponsor: by Anna Golden Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention. You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you’re just doing stuff around the house. And that’s where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day. Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don’t always need to find a quiet corner. The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it’s a no-brainer. You’ll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God through the Bible. To get started listening, head to for up to 50% off today! Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to . /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/41600125

Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan 05/27/2026

Spiritual Formation, Art, And The Beauty And The Tragedy of Worship Music with John Mark McMillan Throughout church history there has always been an interesting tension between creativity and functionality. What is more important? Creating beautiful things or getting a certain message across? What is more important to worship? Right theology or beautiful art that displays the glory of God? Do we need better theology in our songs or more honesty? We intuitively know this is a tension to manage, not a problem to solv e. No one would argue that theology doesn’t matter. But has our pursuit of rightness caused us to lose some imagination? Some humanity? Has our church culture fixation on efficiency, productivity, and uniformity formed us to forget the mystery and wonder of singing together as people? My guest today is John Mark McMillan. John Mark is a brilliant artist, singer-songwriter, and lyricist. He has existed at this interesting intersection of artistry that most people don’t understand while also writing some of the most popular worship songs of the last 30 years. We talk about a lot of things. We talk worship. We talk church. We talk spiritually formative practices. We dive into guitar tone, abuse in the church, and the real story behind the infamous line, “sloppy wet kiss.” Topics Covered: What JMM loves about life right now Reading and listening to records Why it's helpful to listen to music different than the music you make How worship music is uniquely positioned to serve our society How we've missed the point of worship music The tension between creativity and serving our congregations Why you should make art for yourself and not an audience How JMM created the guitar tone on "Daylight" Why art is never safe Spiritual formation habits and practices Viewing church as a spiritual practice How to process abuse and injustice in the church The story behind "sloppy wet kiss" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: by Ryuichi Sakamato by Ryuichi Sakamato by Anthony de Mello by Anthony de Mello by David Byrne Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention. You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you’re just doing stuff around the house. And that’s where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day. Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don’t always need to find a quiet corner. The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it’s a no-brainer. You’ll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God through the Bible. To get started listening, head to for up to 50% off today! Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/41441445

Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham 05/21/2026

Pastoring Border Patrol Agents And Immigrants With Evan Wickham I’m not a Lead Pastor, but I can’t imagine anything more difficult than pastoring in today’s political climate. We feel that these days are unique, but in reality they are not. History has much to teach us. Occasionally I like to bring Lead Pastors onto the podcast to talk about how they’re navigating cultural issues. My guest today is Evan Wickham. Evan is the older brother of Phil Wickham, also a worship leader and songwriter, and the pastor of Park Hill Church in San Diego, California. Here’s what’s interesting: In his very church, he has a Christian Border Patrol Agent and Immigrant families, both trying to make sense of the times in which we live. Evan’s perspective on how to pastor faithfully is enlightening. What does faithful pastoring look like? How do partisan politics compromise the gospel? Should our Sunday services address the latest issues in the news or should we just stick to the gospel? Is it possible to pastor from the political center? We can’t escape politics, no matter how much we would like to try. Politics effect how we live together. The Bible is a political book. Conversations like this rarely make anyone happy but faithful leaders need to step into the tension. Don’t miss the end of the conversation where we talk about worship, songwriting, and the presence of God in our churches. Evan’s challenge were beautiful and surprising. Topics Covered: Deconstruction and staying in the Church Why Baby Boomer pastors are not known for letting go 3 signs that you are a healthy pastor The Matt Walsh vs Evan Wickham social media beef How to think about what President Trump is saying and doing How to Pastor both right and left leaning people in your congregation What the presence of God actually means Whether we should pursue revival or not Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Evan Wickham Evan Wickham Show Sponsor: Planning Center This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to . /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/41377495

How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany 05/13/2026

How To Build A Thriving Worship Culture in 2026 with Michael Bethany When I accepted my first worship leader position over 20 years ago, I thought worship was all about the stage. Pick the right songs. Have the best musicians. Seamless transitions. Dial in your click and track system to perfection. While there’s nothing wrong with those dynamics - there was something I wasn’t considering. Worship culture. Now…culture has become a cliche - a buzzword, so to speak. But culture is the environment you steward. It’s the conditions you create to shape the people who are a part of your team. And that matters a lot. So today, we’re going to talk about worship team culture. My guest is Michael Bethany. Michael is an award winning songwriter, artist, and worship leader. Michael coaches worship leaders and teams all over the world. We talk about how to build a healthy worship culture in 2026, developing leadership pipelines, spontaneous worship, celebrating diversity in the church, and why we need to bring back rehearsals! Topics Covered: Michael's journey to faith in Christ Michael's early influences The posture of a worship leader Developing a leadership pipeline in your church What worship leaders are struggling with Creating systems in your worship ministry Working on your ministry instead of working in it How to do spontaneous worship well Why we need to bring back rehearsals Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible (Click for up to 50% off) Show Sponsor: Planning Center by Michael Bethany Michael Bethany Show Sponsor: Dwell Bible This episode is brought to you by dwell bible app. In our busy lives finding quiet moments to read the Bible can be challenging. I get it. Traditional, reading focused apps demand undivided attention. You have to carve out specific time and space in your day but this also means missing opportunities to engage with scripture in your car or during workouts, or while you’re just doing stuff around the house. And that’s where Dwell Bible app comes in, offering a unique way to engage with Scripture. Unlike reading apps, Dwell is audio-based. It allows the truth of Scripture to be read over you throughout your day. Imagine hearing the Bible while driving to work or running in the park or cooking dinner. You don’t always need to find a quiet corner. The word is with you wherever you are, filling your every day, mundane moments. So give Dwell a shot— it’s a no-brainer. You’ll get to experience a whole new way to connect with God /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/41279705

The Tension Between Organizational Progress And Pastoral Care Within The Church with Michael Olson 04/30/2026

What Native Culture And Indigenous Theology Can Teach Us About Following Jesus with Terry Wildman 04/17/2026

Beating Procrastination with Jon Acuff 04/07/2026

Beating Procrastination with Jon Acuff Humans disagree on a lot of things. Religion. Politics. The best brand of peanut butter. But if there’s one area where we can find some common ground, it’s productivity. Getting stuff done. We all - to a certain degree - have to cross items off our to-do list. Whether you’re a stay-at-home parent, Fortune 500 CEO, pastor, or entrepreneur, you have to take action on the goals that matter to you. That’s why I’m talking to author/speaker Jon Acuff. He’s written a book called Procrastination Proof that simultaneously makes me feel seen and convicted at the same time. You see, I’m a serial procrastinator. When I don’t know what to do next, I assume doing nothing will solve it. Problem is, it never does. If you’ve ever heard Jon speak or read any of his books, it’s a fun ride. He’s hilarious and practical. In this conversation we talk about procrastination and how to beat it. We talk about Jon’s journey as a PK and his perspective on leading a church. We talk about how to deal with criticism, small churches and mega churches, and even some worship leader jokes at no additional church. Topics Covered: Worship Leader jokes How to deal with criticism Why successful leaders develop bad habits One thing every pastor needs The four frameworks for becoming procrastination proof The validity of small churches and mega churches Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Jon Acuff Jon Acuff Show Sponsor: This episode is brought to you by Planning Center, helping you sync all your ministry details across your whole church. Planning Center has become so essential to how I manage a team, that it’s almost impossible to consider local church ministry without it anymore. Today, I want to leave you with a PCO pro-tip. Does this sound like a familiar situation? It’s the end of the week. You’re about to leave the office when you suddenly think: Did all of our volunteers confirm for Sunday? You scroll through the schedule and sure enough—there’s a gap. Instead of allowing yourself to spiral into a panic, try this: In Services, Planning Center has gap alerts. Turn them on, and you’ll get a heads-up days before service if positions are still unfilled or unconfirmed. No more end of the week scrambling. Speaking of less scrambling, did you know you can access everything you need for rehearsals right from the Service media player on your phone? Lyrics, chord charts, arrangement notes—it’s all right there, so you’re not hunting for files in the middle of hitting those power chords. To see what else you can do to make your Sundays easier, go to . /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/40756590

The Bible: How To Read It, Understand It, & Build A Daily Habit Around It with Zach Windahl 03/27/2026

Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti 03/10/2026

Worship Leader State Of The Union with Chris Kuti Topics Covered: How Chris got started in Worship ministry How the explosion of a worship industry has malformed us for local church ministry Why we need Worship Pastors in the church What unique challenges Worship Leaders are facing today The downsides to the seeker sensitive movement in the American Church How worship leaders and lead pastors can develop a healthy partnership Leadership skills every worship pastor needs to develop in a multisite context Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group thre /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/40381045

Leadership Lessons For All From The History Of The Black Church with L. Michelle Smith 02/28/2026

Leadership Lessons For All From The History Of The Black Church with L. Michelle Smith Something I am so grateful for is the leadership experience I received growing up in the church. From a young age, I got involved in worship teams. I led small groups. I developed skills. I was put on stages I had no business being on. Church wasn’t just a weekly service we attended. It was a leadership incubator. L. Michelle Smith has written a new book called Call And Response: 10 Leadership Lessons From the Black Church. In it she discusses how the Black Church has historically developed high level business leaders. The book borrows from culture, neuroscience, and positive psychology to describe the power of the Black Church and why it has produced so many high level leaders . Whether you’ve grown up in the Black Church or have never even visited, we all have something to learn here. Because if the church stops developing leaders in favor of merely hiring out a professional, performative workforce, we could be in some trouble. This is David Santistevan. You can reach me anytime at As always, thank you for listening. Topics Covered: Why the history of Call and Response in the Black Church matters to us today Leadership development in the local church Leadership lessons learned in the Black Church What it's like being a successful Black women in corporate America Why The Black Church is seen as inferior in both white and black spaces Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by L. Michelle Smith by Henry Louis Gates, Jr. Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/40263990

Making Worship Music That Doesn't Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee 02/16/2026

Making Worship Music That Doesn't Sound Like Worship Music with Trip Lee There’s an argument that has gone around for decades and it revolves around the idea of how much worship music do we need? Do we have enough? On the one hand, yes, we have more worship music than we’ll ever be able to use in our Sunday morning services. And there’s also the argument that worship music is the most lucrative music in Christian music. I don’t think that can be debated. So while there are business and industry incentives to make worship music that will always exist at the intersection of Christianity and industry, what is the biblical perspective? What does the Bible teach us about singing, songwriting, and corporate worship? Trip Lee is a hip hop artist, a preacher, a rapper, an author…and he’s released a worship album. I appreciate Trip and his commitment to God’s Word. We talk about the power of worship music, why we need more cultural expressions of it, and how worship music should be viewed as a tool of discipleship. We also talk about culture and Christianity, racial tension, and how we should think about the division in the church right now. Topics Covered: Trip's story of coming to faith in Christ The influence of church music on Tripp's music Musical and theological influences Why Tripp decided to make a worship album The intersection of culture and church Why it can be challenging to partner together across racial and cultural lines Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Trip Lee & Brag Worship Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/40125730

Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with Dr. David O. Taylor 02/01/2026

Uncommon & Creative Ways to Reimagine Your Worship Services with Dr. David O. Taylor Topics Covered: The difference between formation and experience in worship Why our current model of worship experiences isn't wrong, but inadequate The value of silence in our gatherings Why we need artists in the church Creative ways to introduce silence, reflection, and community in our worship spaces The kinds of songs the church needs to be singing today Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by W. David O. Taylor Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39955770

Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham 01/20/2026

Evangelicalism, Justice Work, And Red Letter Christianity with Brittany Packnett Cunningham Topics Covered: Brittany's faith tradition growing up The need for liberation theology and what it means for the local church The importance of unlearning and contextualizing theology Noticing how white supremacy undermines the prosperity of black people The defunding of HBCUs and what that means for black thriving in America What it means to be a red letter Christian Politics and faith The prophetic witness of the Black Church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by C. Eric Lincoln & Lawrence H. Mamiya by Kristen Kobes Du Mez Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Service /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39793585

Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell 01/09/2026

Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell Topics Covered: Calvin's journey as a worship leader The reality of starting music later in life Why we shouldn't be afraid of frequent new songs Why diversity is important How the Christian music industry needs to change Why God still has a plan for you The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39677485

When Worship Gets Political with David Gate 01/02/2026

When Worship Gets Political with David Gate Topics Covered: When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda Why it's not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room The difference between empathy and worship Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it Pro football/College football and racism What to do if you can't stomach singing popular worship music in church A true definition of Christian persecution Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by David Gate by David Gate by Hannah Frances by Dijon Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start cha /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39596200

Why It's OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi 12/17/2025

Why It's OK To Simplify Our Worship Experiences with Martha Munizzi What is the future of worship leading? How important are worship leaders and how will that role continue to develop in the future? No one really knows, but it’s worth reflecting on. My guest today is Martha Munizzi - veteran gospel artist, songwriter, worship leader and co-pastor at epic life church in Orlando. This is an interesting conversation because Martha has the perspective of a worship leader and a pastor. We talk about the tension of excellent worship experiences as it relates to church growth and simple congregational worship where the voice of the people take center stage. Practical ways to do simple worship without losing excellence. We talk about the beauty of gospel music and where it’s headed. How to empower young worship leaders and what the older generation can learn from them. We also hear the story of how Martha brilliantly forced her way onto my podcast. It’s kind of hilarious. Topics Covered: How Martha got started in music Why Martha decided to write and pursue gospel music Why worship is so important How to empower younger worship leaders How to simplify worship in a production-heavy age The future of Gospel music The story behind Martha's new project, "Church is Revival" Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Martha Munizzi Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39440645

How The Western Church Has Been Shaped to Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About it) with Joash P. Thomas 12/03/2025

How The Western Church Has Been Shaped to Resist Justice (And What We Can Do About it) with Joash P. Thomas Justice - when you hear that word what do you think of? The word carries some baggage in the church today and has become highly politicized. Too much justice talk and you can be dismissed as Marxist, woke, or a proponent of the “unbiblical” social justice gospel. But if you can remove yourself from cultural baggage, read the Bible with fresh eyes, and look at the life of Jesus, you see justice everywhere. Justice was central to the life and mission of Jesus. And it should be to his followers as well. One of the best books I’ve read on the topic is a new book by Joash Thomas called . Talking about justice shouldn’t cause us to draw tighter partisan political lines. It should cause us - as Joash says - to be politically agnostic, except on behalf of our marginalized neighbors. This is an eye-opening conversation. He talk about how colonization has shaped the Western church to resist justice. Why we need more teaching on justice and not less. Why it’s important to diversity our theological influences. And some practical ways any local church can pursue justice. Joash is a kind soul with a deep understanding of justice and Christianity in the global south and what we can learn in the west…from followers of Jesus all over the world. Topics Covered: How "wokeism" and "Marxism" have become deflective tactics to keep us from facing the truth Why the Evangelical Church needs more teaching on justice How colonization and colonialism has shaped us to resist justice Why it's good for our formation to diversify our theological influences Why Christians should be politically agnostic Practical ways the church today can pursue justice Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Joash Thomas Joash Thomas Joash Thomas Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39257755

An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church in America with Phillip Joubert 11/18/2025

An Honest Look At The Systems That Shape The Church in America with Phillip Joubert One of my goals with this podcast is not simply to talk about the spiritual but also the systemic. One could argue that the two are actually intertwined. Can Christian spirituality thrive in the midst of a toxic system? Is it possible to be formed opposite the ways of Jesus while using the name of Jesus? These are important questions to wrestle with and hold up to cultural Christianity today. We must talk about the cultural systems we are shaped by. That’s not divisive or an attack of the enemy. The truth always shines a light. And the truth will always lead us to greater unity, even if some systems we’ve held dear need to come down. Part of being a faithful follower of Jesus in the world is paying attention to what is of God and what is not. And that’s why I wanted to have a conversation with my friend Phillip Joubert. Phillip is an artist with Common Hymnal, one of my favorite Christian artist collectives out there right now. They are making music that is a refreshing counterpoint to popular Christian music today. It’s Jesus AND justice. It’s praise AND protest. It’s worship music that is rooted in the goodness of God but with a grip on the reality of our world. Phillip is a truth teller. A prophet, you might say. The voice of someone who spots trends and speaks with moral clarity and biblical conviction. Topics Covered: Why praise and protest are needed in our spiritual formation Why worship culture tends to be tone deaf Why we need to decolonize our theology of success A different alternative to an industry of worship The importance of understanding whiteness as a culture Why America needs to be seen as a religion Thoughts on Bad Bunny and rival Super Bowl halftime shows What we can learn from the Maverick City controversy Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/39085170

Music & Ministry After Hillsong with Matt Crocker 11/05/2025

What We Can All Learn From The Theological And Musical Tradition Of The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III 10/22/2025

What We Can All Learn From The Theological And Musical Tradition Of The Black Church with Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Part of my desire with this podcast is to highlight voices - important voices that may not break through into the Christian mainstream, but powerful and necessary voices nonetheless. One of those voices is the Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III, pastor of Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago. Dr Moss is a pastor, author, theologian, filmmaker and one of the very best preachers in America today. And I say that without hyperbole. In this interview I talk with Dr. Moss about the black theological tradition, the black church, black music history, black worship, and what the global church can learn from this heroic, innovative, beautiful expression of the church today. This is an important conversation. A necessary conversation for racial unity and moral clarity in polarizing times where history is at risk of being either forgotten or rewritten. Dr. Moss is an amazing communicator. This conversation is full of history, theology, stories, culture, and the celebration of innovative people throughout history. This isn’t just about political cheap shots. This is a celebration of the diversity and beauty of God. Topics Covered: The story of Dr. Moss's call to ministry and his early career aspirations Why Dr. Moss and his church is "unashamedly black and unapologetically Christian" Why "black theology" is a helpful categorization What America can learn about democracy from jazz music Why politics is not about right or left What is happening in Chicago right now and why the church can't stay silent Why every pastor needs a mentor outside of their cultural tradition What pastors can learn from professional athletes Otis' favorite books, movies, & documentaries Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: (website) (instagram) by Howard Thurman by W.E.B. Du Bois by Padraig O Tuama by Gary Dorrien by Imani Perry by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III by Rev. Dr. Otis Moss III Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/38742085

How Charisma Has Shaped American History and Church History with Molly Worthen 10/16/2025

How Charisma Has Shaped American History and Church History with Molly Worthen What happens when Americans lose faith in their religious institutions - and politicians fill the void? As you study the scope of American history - and church history in America - you see an interesting connection to charisma. Charismatic leaders rise to prominence and galvanize a following. From the puritans and Andrew Jackson to black nationalists and Donald trump, the saga of American charisma stars figures who possess a bewildering power to move crowds. Charismatic leaders address spiritual needs, inviting followers into a story that gives them knowledge, power, and heroic status, whether as divinely chosen instruments of God or those who will restore national glory. This is the subject of historian Molly Worthen’s new book Spellbound: How Charisma Shaped American History From the Puritans to Donald Trump. Molly is a professor of history at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill and a freelance journalist. She teaches courses on North American religion and politics, global Christianity, and the history of ideas. Suffice it to say she is brilliant. I wanted to talk to Molly because her new book feels relevant to our current political climate, but also because charisma the personality trait and charisma the power of the Holy Spirit - is important to understand church history. It’s also important to understand worship and church and the gatherings that we lead. Topics Covered: The declining trust in institutions from 1970 until now The difference between charisma and charm The charismatic leaders of 20th century religious revivals The rise of hyper partisan politics in the American Church What we can learn from the life and politics of Charlie Kirk Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Molly Worthen Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/38609120

How To Pastor Your Church Through Polarizing Political Times 10/09/2025

How To Pastor Your Church Through Polarizing Political Times Topics Covered: The journey from Worship & Creative Pastor to Lead Pastor Transitioning from a white, suburban, homogenous church to an inner city, multicultural environment The cliche answer to ministry fruitfulness that shouldn't be a cliche The troubled and difficult history of ACAC and how they began to embrace diversity as a church How to address racism as a multicultural congregation How to pastor republicans and democrats in the same church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: ACAC by Scott Sauls Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/38529150

Worship And Songwriting Trends Of The Last 15 Years 10/02/2025

Worship And Songwriting Trends Of The Last 15 Years Topics Covered: Why many have a difficult time evaluating worship industry realities Worship trends in the 2010s How worship movements dominate a market Why influential worship movements may not write the best songs Why small songwriters and movements should feel empowered Worship songwriting trends in the 2020s Why songwriting has become more of a "family" endeavor What we can learn about the rise of Brandon Lake Why so few women are involved in the top worship songs The "Billy Graham rule" as it applies to songwriting Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on. As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services. But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature? Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it! No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another. The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes! So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation. All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting! /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/38440350

The Truth About the American Church's Complicity in Racism (And Where We Go From Here) 09/18/2025

The Truth About the American Church's Complicity in Racism (And Where We Go From Here) Today’s conversation is with historian, author, and activist Dr. Jemar Tisby. Early in 2025 I decided to read more history. Call it curiosity or wanting more context to our current political moment, I started to devour books about the Civil War and eventually more books about the Civil Rights era. One of those books was The Color of Compromise: The Truth About the American Church’s Complicity in Racism. And to be honest, I was blown away by this book. Mainly because I had never learned this stuff growing up. I’d learned history…but I hadn’t learned this history. Why does this matter? I believe to my core that if we are unwilling to face and reckon with the darker parts of our history, we will continue to make the same mistakes. A quote that has been attributed to Mark Twain: History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme. We are living in an incredibly dangerous and polarizing political moment in America. And like Jemary Tisby says in our podcast…what happens in culture is downstream of what happens in the church. So we’re going to face some hard truths today. Reckon with some hard truths. And come out better on the other side. Jamar is a brilliant scholar and teacher. He’s bold yet gracious. And I’m excited to share this conversation with you today. As always, thank you for listening. This is David Santistevan and you can reach out to me at any time at Topics Covered: Jamar's salvation story in the white evangelical church What the Mississippi Delta teaches us about American racism The church's complicity in racism throughout history Doug Wilson and the spread of racist ideology The unique atrocity of American race-based, chattel slavery Why leftist, Marxist, DEI deflections are lazy and don't make sense Racial bias in the Christian Music industry US churches who are speaking out about racial injustice and justice work Resources Mentioned by Jamar Tisby by Jamar Tisby Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning . As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with , you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In , you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use . From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping inform /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/38269300

Church Styles, Worship Styles, & Multi-Generational Setlists with Lizzie Morgan 09/08/2025

Church Styles, Worship Styles, & Multi-Generational Setlists with Lizzie Morgan Today’s conversation is returning to our roots at BSW - talking with a worship leader about worship. We’ve been talking to academics and historians - which we will continue to do - but sometimes it feels good to throw it back and have a good ole worship leader conversation. Lizzie Morgan is a gifted young worship leader who grew up in the church and has been singing her whole life. She auditioned for Lauren Daigle, sang with Lauren, and has since been a part of tours with Maverick City, Red Worship, and various other groups. I loved this conversation because of where it went. If you know me - I get a little bored with just talking about worship songwriting and worship records. Sorry, I just do…but this conversation went somewhere I didn’t anticipate - talki ng about how different generations have viewed church and worship and what we can learn from that. What did previous generations do well? What regrets do they have? What previous generations have passed down…does the next generation even want it? We also talk about building setlist, flow, reimagining how we do worship, as well as Lizzie’s new record Not My Will. Topics Covered: Lizzie's upbringing in the United Pentecostal Church An audition that changed Lizzie's life What Lizzie learned about worship from her family growing up The difference between generations and the tensions of walking with charismatic gifts Why singing only select songs from a few movements is hurting us How to build creative setlist Why Lizzie decided to do a live worship record Why saying yes to God's will is so difficult Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Lizzie Morgan Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning . As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with , you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In , you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use . From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/38134040

Why The Early Church Didn't Have Worship Services: A Conversation with Dr. Tom Wadsworth 08/27/2025

Why The Early Church Didn't Have Worship Services: A Conversation with Dr. Tom Wadsworth As a young worship leader, I used to ask myself the question: “Why is worship such a big deal?” Not in the sense of “God isn’t worthy of it…” but I realized there were no worship leaders in the Bible. Lots of singing. And our church gatherings are built around worship. And there’s a worship industry. And a constant stream of songs and songwriters. It’s a big deal in our modern church culture. I consoled myself with the thought that God is worthy of it. We sing so much because he’s worthy. We write so many songs because he’s worthy. We have so many services because he’s worthy. And while that might not be wrong… has our emphasis on worship led us to an imbalance in our gatherings? Has our emphasis on worship being all about God, led us to neglect the very real horizontal aspects of ministry and discipleship? I wanted to talk about it. My guest today is Dr. Tom Wadsorth, New Testament scholar whose doctoral dissertation was why the first century church did not use worship language when it described its gathering. I know that is controversial. This is a worship podcast. You may be a worship leader. You may be a songwriter who resources the church with new songs. We’re not talking about removing worship and singing from the church. That would be an obvious Biblical misinterpretation. What we are looking at is how did the first century church view its gathering and what can we learn from it today? Because I don’t know about you - it’s possible to worship, listen to sermons, and give in the offering for a lifetime and not mature in my faith. Our churches are full… and growing numerically…but are people maturing in their faith? What would it look like for us to reimagine our gatherings? This is controversial. You may disagree some. But I think it’s a healthy theme for us to wrestle with. Topics Covered: What constituted the gathering of first century Christians Why worship language would be foreign to the first century church When the shift happened in church history from edification to worship Power and control dynamics throughout church history Why preaching is not a New Testament concept How to balance mega and small church Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning . As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with , you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In , you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use . From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/37981555

The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy with Dr. Matthew D. Taylor 08/13/2025

The Christian Movement That Is Threatening Our Democracy with Dr. Matthew D. Taylor Topics Covered: C. Peter Wagner and the alliance between church growth and charismatic theology The New Apostolic Reformation and why it's important we understand it A definition of Dominion Theology The Seven Mountain Mandate and how popular this ideology is Why not all charismatic/pentecostal movements and theology are dangerous Paula White and the prosperity Gospel The proper context of Mathew 11:12 The problem with partnering American politics with Christian extremism How we got to where we are today with "apostles" and "prophets" Why charismatic Christianity is so fixated on revival Che Ahn and his network's merging with the American Militia movement The story of Donald Trump and the Christians instrumental in his rise to power The Sean Feucht saga and what we can learn from it Resources Mentioned: Show Sponsor: by Matthew D. Taylor Show Sponsor: Planning Center My goal in this podcast is to help you grow as a worship leader. Of course that includes your formation, but it isn’t limited to that—it’s also with practical tools to help you in your ministry. It’s hard to talk about being a worship leader without mentioning . As you know, I’m a huge fan. A lot of you are already using Planning Center Services to schedule your volunteers, plan your worship services, and give your team the tools they need to learn their music. But with , you can stay even more engaged with your volunteers and anyone looking for how to get plugged in. First, some good news: is completely free with any Planning Center subscription. No, you didn’t hear me wrong—it’s free. Second, some better news: you can use to add new volunteers to your teams quickly and automatically. In , you can make forms for anyone interested in volunteering, put them in a step-by-step training workflow, and then automatically add them to Services to schedule them for the right team. And that’s just one way you can use . From sending automated emails and seeing church-wide engagement to organizing your member database and keeping information up-to-date, there’s tons you can do. /episode/index/show/beyondsunday/id/37806180

Beyond Sunday Worship Podcast

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