Joe Bovell's Legacy of Love and Leadership in Parenting Daughters

In the realm of parenting, fathers play a pivotal role in shaping their children's lives, especially daughters. The journey of fatherhood is complex, filled with joys, challenges, and continuous learning experiences. In the Dads with Daughters podcast episode featuring Joe Bovell, a father of two, a profound discussion unfolded regarding the evolving dynamics of raising daughters. Let's delve into the insightful dialogue and extract key takeaways on navigating the path of fatherhood.

Embracing the Journey of Parenthood

Joe Bovell's narrative sheds light on the profound transformation that occurs when one becomes a father. The initial emotions of surprise and delight upon discovering the gender of his children set the stage for a journey filled with expectations, fears, and aspirations. Embracing fatherhood as a collaborative effort with his wife, Joe highlights the importance of being present and actively engaging in his children's lives from the moment they enter the world.

Navigating Fears and Challenges

As daughters transition through different stages of life, fathers like Joe Bovell acknowledge the evolving fears and challenges that come with the territory. From the desire to protect their daughters in their early years to confronting the societal pressures and influences as they grow older, the complexities of fatherhood magnify over time. Joe's exploration of the generational differences and the impact of social media on his daughter's growth provides a poignant reflection on the constant adaptation required in modern-day parenting.

Balancing Work, Life, and Parenting

An integral aspect of Joe's journey as a father is balancing his professional commitments with his role as a parent. As the CEO of Eco Growth International, Joe emphasizes the significance of quality over quantity when it comes to spending time with his family. Striving to be an engaged and supportive father amidst a busy schedule, Joe's approach reflects the ongoing quest for balance and prioritization in the realm of work-life integration.

Drawing Inspiration from Personal Challenges

Joe Bovell's upbringing in poverty and adversity serves as a foundation for his parenting philosophy. The resilience and work ethic instilled by his life experiences shape his perspectives on fatherhood and drive him to provide a safe and secure environment for his children. Joe's reflection on the absence of a father figure in his life underscores the profound impact of personal adversities in shaping one's values and aspirations as a parent.

Continuous Growth and Reflection

One of the most profound insights shared by Joe Bovell is the importance of continuous growth and reflection as a father. Acknowledging the feedback from his children, embracing the changing dynamics as they transition into adulthood, and navigating the fine line between guidance and autonomy, Joe exemplifies the essence of evolving as a parent. The journey of fatherhood is marked by learning on the job, adapting to new challenges, and striving to be the best version of oneself for the sake of one's children.

In essence, Joe Bovell's journey as a father provides a poignant narrative on the highs, lows, and intricate nuances of raising daughters. His reflections on fears, challenges, and the continuous strive for improvement paint a vivid picture of the multifaceted nature of fatherhood. As fathers navigate the complexities of parenting, Joe's insights serve as a guiding light, emphasizing the importance of presence, resilience, and a constant commitment to being the best dad one can be in shaping the lives of their daughters.

Joe Bovell was a part of Sarah Maconachie's book of stories about fathers called Working Dads and Balancing Acts. 

TRANSCRIPT

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:05]:
Welcome to dads with daughters. In this show, we spotlight dads, resources, and more to help you be the best dad you can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:00:16]:
Welcome back to the Dads with Daughters podcast where we bring you guests to be active participants in your daughter's lives, raising them to be strong, independent women. Really excited to have you back again this week. Every week, I love being able to sit down, talk to you to be able to be on this journey with you. Because I know it is a journey. You know, I've got 2 daughters myself. I know you've got daughters, and you are going through this journey just like I am. You may have really young daughters, you could have teenage daughters, you could have grown and flown daughters, but we're all on a journey to help our daughters to be able to be those women, those strong, independent women that I already mentioned, but that we want them to be in life. And that's why the show exists.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:01]:
It exists because I want to help you along this path. I am not an expert, but it is important to be able to walk together in this journey, because we can always learn and grow and be better as fathers. And that's why every week I love being able to bring you different guests, different dads, different people, people with resources, people with different experiences and and on different journeys that can help you to see your own journey of fatherhood in a little bit different way. And by hearing these experiences, my hope is that you're adding some tools to that toolbox that you're carrying with you. And that that will help you in the journey that you're on. This week, we've got another great guest with us today. Joe Bovell is with us today. And Joe is a father of 2.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:01:56]:
He's got a son. He's got a daughter. And we're gonna be talking about the journey that he has been on as a father himself. And I'm really excited to be able to talk to him today. Joe, thanks so much for being here today.

Joe Bovell [00:02:07]:
Welcome, Chris. Thank you. I'm looking forward to this. Well, I'm

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:02:10]:
really excited to have you here today. And I always start the interviews with an opportunity to kinda go back in time. We're gonna turn the clock back a little bit. And I said, you have a son, you have a daughter, and we're gonna focus on your daughter today. But I want you to go back to that first moment that you found out that you were gonna be a dad to a daughter. What was going through your head?

Joe Bovell [00:02:27]:
Well, I found out as she was born. So it seems to be a bit against the norm now where a lot of people wanna know the sex of their child before well before they're born. We took the decision with both our children to not do that. So so that was a great surprise, and I'm glad we did that. So our son was born first as you touched on. So it was great when I found out I had a daughter because that was the pigeon pear. That was fantastic to have that moment where we said, okay. Let's let's work out.

Joe Bovell [00:02:53]:
You know, we're being blessed. We've had, a boy and a girl. We had a lot of difficulties through both pregnancies. My wife did, not me, of course. But and she had morning sickness for every single day of each pregnancy up until the day including the day they were born. So we were only ever gonna have 2 children. So the fact that Stephanie was born was, yeah, it was a great delight.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:03:13]:
Now, you know, I talked to a lot of dads, that have daughters, and a lot of the dads talk about that there is fear that goes along with raising daughters. Now, you had a son first, then you had your daughter. Talk to me about what was your biggest fear in raising a daughter?

Joe Bovell [00:03:29]:
I think those fears have evolved as she's gotten older. There's certainly the protective mood kicks in in those early years and and her development. But I'd say in the last 5 years, the pressures of social media, expectations of society to act and look in a particular way, that's certainly my greatest fears right now because I can see how it's influencing her how it influences her friend network, and how they communicate with each other is just so different. And I think one of my fears was the generational difference in how I grew up versus how she's growing up, and it is so different. And as a parent, you're trying to manage that sit a situation that you really have little control over. So I think the early stages because we had an established family and have a son first, there weren't as many fears. But I think now that she's interacting with the wider world, the fear has heightened, particularly in the last 5 years.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:04:25]:
So as you talk about the fear being heightened, what is that fear now?

Joe Bovell [00:04:29]:
It's quite significant, particularly because I think as she's getting older and developing and growing into being a woman, I can see the pressures, societal pressures coming on to her to look a certain way, to act a certain way, to like a certain musician, to be accepted in the group. And how her friends and schoolmates actually interact with each other, and how we can escalate so quickly. So if one person doesn't get invited to a party and that person finds out about it, it sets off this chain of events that really, as I say, escalates into something that gets out of control pretty quickly. And I can see the pressure bearing on her, and then that obviously affects me as a father because you have little to no control over it. And I think it's that I can see that building as she's getting older, and that might change or tap out when she gets to 18 or 19. But at the moment, as a 15 year old, to me, it appears to be at its highest.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:05:22]:
Now there are definitely highs and lows to fatherhood and parenting. There are good times. There's challenging times. Talk to me about what's been the hardest part about being a father to a daughter?

Joe Bovell [00:05:35]:
It's a really good question because I think there's so many layers. But maybe my first reaction is, in a lot of ways, my daughter has a really close relationship with her mom, and I think that's that's vitally important and not as close to to me. So you have to reconcile that that she is gonna do some more things with her mom because the girl thinks, and they're gonna enjoy that exploration together. And maybe a lot of the interest I have don't sort of resonate with her. So I think it's accepting that you have a particular role to play in your daughter's life, and I might necessarily be the friend or the mate that say mom is. It's more the mentor and that type of role. So relationship shifting from that really close bond to we're still close, but it's not not as close as what it was perhaps 5 years ago. Because she's developing and emerging and and forming her own opinions on life.

Joe Bovell [00:06:25]:
Right? So I think that's probably the greatest challenge. There's others, of course, but I think that's probably the greatest for me personally as a dad and how I manage that.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:06:33]:
I know you're a busy guy. You are the CEO and Managing Director at Eco Growth International. And that alone is a very busy job. And then you have your family, you have your other responsibilities, you're balancing a lot of different things, wearing a lot of hats. So talk to me about balance and what you do to be able to be that engaged dad that you wanna be.

Joe Bovell [00:06:55]:
Yeah. I think it's about making the most of the time that you have together and having quality rather than quantity. And, look, they've grown up. Steph's grown up with me in this role, you know, half her life. So she's accustomed to me traveling or doing longer working hours or whatever that might be. So that's the norm. I mean, it's pretty normal now when I can go on a trip and she comments and perhaps did I even go away. So and that's not that she didn't miss me, but she's just so used to me not being there.

Joe Bovell [00:07:23]:
And I think and that's like, I spoke on her in your earlier question about the bond with her mom is closer because she spends more time with her. So it's a really difficult balance, and I I do I wouldn't say I have an issue with it, but I would challenge the notion of work life balance. I don't I don't think there is. Trying to get that balance, I think, is incredibly difficult. And if you can do that, then I'll take my hat off to you. But I've always gone with the moments that really matter, I want to be there. So be that a school assembly or an award or a presentation or a sporting event, to me, that's vital that I'm there, and work absolutely comes second in those occasions. Work is not everything.

Joe Bovell [00:08:04]:
So that's where I try and make that balanced choice. It's go okay. It I don't know. It sounds like prioritization, but it's actually saying what are the moments that really matter and and being engaged in those moments as well.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:08:21]:
Now you and I were connected through Sarah McConachie, who you wrote a piece of her new book in working dads and balancing acts. And in that book, you you talk about the fact that your childhood wasn't the easiest. You had a single mom, you you grew up in poverty and adversity. And that helped as you write in your in your, piece, that it really shaped a sense of resilience in you and a work ethic that remains with you today. And in that you talk about the absence of a father figure in your life. So talk to me a little bit about that absence, and how you push through that when you became a father, to be able to define fatherhood for yourself and to be the father that you wanted to be?

Joe Bovell [00:09:19]:
That was certainly my greatest fear, when we found out my wife was pregnant, was what kind of father would I be? Because I had no I had no benchmark. So I I never met my father at all, so there was no relationship whatsoever. I didn't have any male mentors in my life growing up either. Obviously, I was very close to my mother. But I didn't have that I didn't have anything shaping me in terms of being a father. So when my, son was born, I hadn't even held a baby. And when I had friends who had babies, I'd always avoided it because I always felt I was gonna break them if I held them. But, but now yeah.

Joe Bovell [00:10:09]:
So moving through that journey, I think you you come back to your own principles of doing what you feel is right. You know that you're gonna make mistakes. I've made I think I've made a lot of mistakes, in my in being a father. And would that have been different if I'd had a father figure in my life growing up? I'm not sure. I always took the position that I was fortunate in not having a father. And the reason I say that because, you know, how many children have, you know, parents who go through divorce or they have a a household that's not safe? And so just because you have a father doesn't necessarily mean it's great. So that was my one of my coping mechanisms, I guess. So I don't know how I became a father.

Joe Bovell [00:11:02]:
I just it just it was a lot by accident, and I learned on the job. And I think what what I touched on in the chapter was that I just felt that what I've gone through in my life, I did not want to have that repeated. So that was my guiding light in being a father. And like I said, I'm not perfect, and I do certainly things I do differently. But I think, overall, that was the the guide for me to be the father that I am.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:11:38]:
Now I mentioned the fact that in what you wrote, you also talked about growing up in poverty and adversity. How did that shape your perspectives on life and on fatherhood?

Joe Bovell [00:11:53]:
On the on the life front, it it it shaped pretty quickly that if you wanted something, you had to go and, work for it. You had to you had to earn it. There was no nothing was gifted, and that you had the choice. So you came to a fork in the road that you could go the right way or the wrong way, or you could choose to stay in poverty, you could choose to be uneducated or not be a nice person, or you can actually choose to be the other way. So go the other way. So and we spoke earlier. My career path and life path hasn't certainly been linear, but it's always been guided by a drive that you can't implant into many people, and my kids don't have it. And I think that's really interesting because I've tried to help build resilience with them.

Joe Bovell [00:12:43]:
So it's difficult if you don't suffer adversity to build resilience. They sort of go hand in hand. So that's only shaped everything, and I started work part time when I was 10 years old, which seems pretty foreign there. Back in the early eighties, that wasn't so uncommon. But we because we had no money or, opportunity and you had friends who were doing things that you couldn't do because you couldn't afford them, you didn't have a choice. Do we go and sell newspapers and be able to be part of that or not? And I haven't been out of work since. So and it probably annoys my kids because in some ways, I have an imposter syndrome. Well, I think I do have an imposter syndrome, not in some ways.

Joe Bovell [00:13:20]:
And there's a fear of losing what you have, and I'm not sure that'll ever leave me. So I could be a multimillionaire, and I still might feel that it could all be taken away from me tomorrow. So that's good and bad. That certainly goes a great driver, but what it can affect is your ability to enjoy the moment. And I think that's been probably the feedback from my daughter particularly that I'm not enjoying the moment. I'm always thinking a couple of years ahead or I'm thinking about protecting what we have and not enjoying it as much as what we can. As I get older, starting to, loosen up on that a little bit.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:13:56]:
Now you mentioned the fact that as you were growing up, you didn't have a father figure. There were no father figures in your life. You were close to your mother, but you had that lack of a father figure. And as you walked into fatherhood, as you mentioned, hadn't held the baby, you thought you were gonna break the baby. You know, you had a lot to learn and that you kind of figured out what being a father was. Who or what did you turn to to be able to model after without having that father figure in your life to be that father that you wanted to be?

Joe Bovell [00:14:29]:
I have to say it's my wife. So we had the same commitment to raising a family in a particular way, so we're on the same page. So even at that point, I still didn't have a male mentor. And as you well know, men aren't particularly good at talking to each other or being open in their communication. So dads don't sit around in father's groups like moms do in mother's groups and share their experiences and share helpful advice. Dads almost said it's a badge of honor to not ask for advice, which is not necessarily a good thing. Back in my generation, at least, I think it's improving, and I think there's more content education available to young fathers. So I've had to say my wife because we had a a firm commitment to raising our children in a certain way, and that was the way we wanted to do it.

Joe Bovell [00:15:15]:
So no. I didn't actually still at that point have a male influence on my life other than what I read or digested online.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:15:23]:
Now you mentioned that in what you wrote that one of the things that you really wanted to do was provide a safe and secure upbringing for your kids, free from the struggles that you faced. So talk to me about how you balanced protecting them while also allowing them to learn and grow from the challenges that they would face as they grew up.

Joe Bovell [00:15:45]:
The provision of the safe family unit again, I've gotta give my wife credit for that as well. I I can't claim all of that. I think a lot of that happened in the background and that they weren't necessarily aware of that, and perhaps they got given too much. That's probably one of the other struggles I have. And that is there an overcorrection in providing far too much when, say, you missed out on it and then you wanna make up for that to some degree. So which again is good and bad. It's great to have to been able to have done that for them, but there's also comes an expectation and entitlement, which I don't think is fabulous for helping them in that sense. So and my wife has always spoken about that.

Joe Bovell [00:16:22]:
We probably should've peeled that back a little bit. So we achieved what we wanted to do in providing that safe family home, but did we overcorrect and not build resilience and build in a modicum of entitlement and that things might come a little bit too easy. And that's the really difficult part. I think that's been the hardest part for me in parenting. It's been that balancing between giving enough or too much or not enough. And I think sometimes you don't know that till you get to the end, until they get to 18 or 20. You might get little hints along the way, but you might not actually see, say, a sense of entitlement or lack of resilience until they're 16. And is that too late?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:17:01]:
Now all of us are not perfect, and we have to learn and grow and become better as we move through fatherhood. What would you say have been some of the strategies that you employed to continuously improve as a dad? And how do you handle setbacks or moments when you feel like you've fallen short?

Joe Bovell [00:17:21]:
I think the feedback from the kids is probably the greatest tool, which is an interesting one because as they're developing and forming their own opinions and and they become more vocal in that, you're realizing what your impact has been as a parent. Doesn't mean they're always right though, I gotta say, because their opinions and learnings are based on what they know at that point in time, and they might not be privy to the background information. So I remember reading somewhere or heard somewhere not that long ago that someone said that, you know, how to become a great parent of an 18 year old. And they said, well, I'm not bad, but I don't know how to be the parent of a 19 year old. Because it was the first time they had evolved. And I think that's the learning on the job that I've mentioned earlier that being a dad to a 6 year old is so different to a 15 year old. As we know, it is just radically different. You go from helping them grow and be a a person.

Joe Bovell [00:18:12]:
They can start to look after themselves and and teach them the basics of life and to then someone who's then forming really strong opinions on the world and they're forming their own character. And there's inevitable clashes with that, clashes in our deals and philosophies. That's been a challenge. So I think the thing I've learned is that you go from protector and teacher, you need to then become more of a listener than a doer and be more there if they need you rather than being there a 100% of the time. And that's taking me a fair bit of brain power to wrap my head around that because, again, that's probably the biggest challenges of being dead, Particularly for me was you go from the protected provider to actually, we don't need you to do that anymore, dad. Actually, why don't you back off a bit? Because you're actually you've been a security guard all this time. We don't need that. We're finding our own way in the world.

Joe Bovell [00:19:02]:
We need you to be there if we need you. So you can feel a bit redundant, but I'll look at that too and say, yeah. But that's part of our job, isn't it? That we're preparing our children for adulthood. And if they should, in some ways, be disconnecting from us, cutting the umbilical cord to a degree, but hope that they come back when they need to.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:19:20]:
Now you've kind of talked about this in trying to raise your kids to be prepared for the future. And I know in what you wrote, you talked about wanting your kids to be successful, happy, well balanced. How do you instill those values and aspirations in them while also allowing them to pursue their own paths?

Joe Bovell [00:19:39]:
Actions speak louder than words, and I think you need to demonstrate that consistently that you have those values as a person, that you can work and have all these other interests, but you can still dedicate time to your family and be there for when you need them. But balancing that against, and which I touched on earlier, I think that's been the challenge for me. You go, jeez. I'd love it if you guys turned out this way, but the reality is you can maybe try and influence it a little bit, but they're gonna form their own values and opinions and style. So I think the only really way you do that is the little building blocks you put on since they were born and that this is the way we do things around here. So people talk about workplace culture, and there's a home culture as well, where you say, well, this is how we do things, and this is what we stand for, and and hope that the kids can and that's not always right. So that's this is where the challenge comes now that you might believe it's the right way to do something, but maybe it's not. And they have influences outside the household now that, are quite strong.

Joe Bovell [00:20:37]:
The school system is I I think, they dedicate a lot of time now to the values and how they wanna be as people when they get to the end of the school journey. So that's certainly that and then their peer group. So I think you can lay the foundation stones and hope that that is the platform that they need, and then they'll top up and put their own icing on the cake.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:20:56]:
Now we always finish our interviews with what I like to call our fatherhood 5, where I ask you 5 more questions to delve be, Chris. In one word, what is fatherhood?

Joe Bovell [00:21:03]:
Satisfying. When was

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:09]:
the time that you finally felt like you succeeded at being a father to a daughter?

Joe Bovell [00:21:13]:
When I saw her become really independent, form strong opinions on a particular issue, and be eloquent in that, and be cognizant of the audience that she was around. And you think, okay, yeah, she's turning into a remarkable woman.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:29]:
Now if I was to talk to your kids, how would they describe you as a dad?

Joe Bovell [00:21:33]:
Probably a pain in the ass, I'd suggest, to be honest. I'm pretty motivated and driven, and I struggle with the concept that they might still be in bed at 11 o'clock in the morning. So but I would hope that they would see that I'm committed and motivated and always try and do the right thing.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:21:48]:
Now who inspires you to be a better dad?

Joe Bovell [00:21:50]:
My kids do. Because we've touched on a journey. You know that there was no manual when we got the child, and it's an interesting journey because we did the prenatal classes, and there's all this attention on the child on the birth. But you know what? There was no education when you got the baby home. So we got home and said, jeez, what do we do now? So that was a real wake up call. So there's no manual. You're learning on the job, and you know you never nail it. So the inspiration is to keep getting better at what you do along their journey.

Joe Bovell [00:22:20]:
And the challenge also is that is evolving as they grow into adults. So they're the 2 people who shaped me the most.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:22:27]:
Now you've shared a lot about your own journey. You've shared some of the highs, the lows, you've shared thoughts and perspectives and and some ideas as well. As we're finishing up today, what's one piece of advice you'd wanna give to every dad?

Joe Bovell [00:22:40]:
I think make the most of every moment. It is incredibly fast that journey from birth to your child being 18. People talk about it, but when you live it, not a day goes past when I don't remember their birth and what that was at that time and the impact it had on us and me individually. And I cannot believe how fast that journey goes. And my advice would be take the time to go to the school assembly, to have the moments with them alone in a park, and go for those walks and have those conversation, to know that it might be the last time you ever get that chance to spend with them. I'm not trying to sound morbid, but you'll never get that time back. And those cutest things when they're at their, school assemblies and they're doing their plays and they're cast as a tree and you've helped paint their costume and that goes so quickly. And then you you're dealing with a 16 year old daughter who's more interested in the friends and and Ariana Grande and all these other influences that those conversations and moments with dad, they will never be the same.

Joe Bovell [00:23:40]:
They won't probably be as much as what you had when they were much younger. So cherish every moment that you can because, a, go so quickly, and, b, as they grow into adults, they generally wanna spend less time with you. So make the most of the time that you have because it is gold. That's my advice.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:23:57]:
Well, Joey, just wanna say thank you for sharing your journey today. If people wanna find out more about you, is there a good place for them to go?

Joe Bovell [00:24:04]:
I'm I'm not a social media king, but I'm sure you can probably find me online. LinkedIn's probably a a good option for me or Facebook. I'd love to hear from people all around the world. That'd be fantastic. And that was my reasoning for doing this was it was slightly cathartic because I did get down in some deep dark places in my chapters. But it's about can I if I can help one person or give just the smallest piece of advice that helps someone, one dad, then my job is done, and I'm really happy with that?

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:24:32]:
And we've mentioned the book already, but Sarah McConachie has a book that has a number of dads in it. You've heard from a number of the dads already. And Joe is one of the authors from that book, And I encourage you to go and check it out. You can go to workhardparenthard.com.au to find out more and be able to get some more information on the book and read more about Joe's story, as well as many other dad stories that are working to be the best dads that they can be, but also to provide a gender equitable home that allow for that equal role of parents and the work within the home. And that's an important discussion to have and important things to read and to learn about. So, Joe, thank you so much again for being here, and I wish you all the best. If you've enjoyed today's of the dads with daughters podcast, we invite you to check out the fatherhood insider. The fatherhood insider is the essential resource for any dad that wants to be the best dad that he can be.

Dr. Christopher Lewis [00:25:38]:
We know that no child comes with an instruction manual and most dads are figuring it out as they go along, and the fatherhood insider is full of resources and information that will up your game on fatherhood. Through our extensive course library, interactive forum, step by step roadmaps, and more, you will engage and learn with experts, but more importantly dads like you. So check it out atfatheringtogether.org. If you are a father of a daughter and have not yet joined the dads with daughters Facebook community, there's a link in the notes today. Dads with daughters is a program of fathering together. We look forward to having you back for another great guest next week. All geared to helping you raise strong empowered daughters and be the best dad that you can be.

We're all in the same boat, And it's full of tiny screaming passengers. We spend the time. We give the lessons. We make the meals. We buy them presents and bring your AK. Because those kids are growing fast. The time goes by just like a dynamite blast, calling astronauts and firemen, carpenters, and musclemen. Get out and beat the world.

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