Building Sustainable Design Research Systems with Sam Zucker — DT101 E143
Release Date: 02/27/2025
Leadership & Strategy + Fighter Pilots + Design Education with Jason "TOGA" Trew — DT101 E145
Design Thinking 101
When I first connected with Jason Trew (callsign: TOGA), I knew this conversation would challenge some assumptions about where design thinking belongs. Jason is an Air Force fighter pilot and strategy leader turned professor. What emerged from our conversation wasn't just another story about design thinking adoption, but a deeper exploration of what he sees happening when we distinguish between capital-D Design Thinking and lowercase-d design thinking, and why that distinction matters for everyone trying to create meaningful change. Jason's journey from F-15 pilot to design educator reveals...
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Operational Excellence in Design + Leadership + Design Ops with Jon Fukuda — DT101 E144
Design Thinking 101
Jon said that when he first discovered the design operations community at the 2019 Design Ops Summit in Brooklyn, it felt like coming home. Here was this entire tribe of people who cared about the same things he’d been passionate about for years—creating systems that help designers do their best work. In this episode, I'm talking with Jon Fukuda, co-founder of Limina.co, about how design operations has evolved from an unnamed set of practices into a vital discipline that drives organizational excellence. As organizations continue to face economic pressures, the conversation around design...
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Building Sustainable Design Research Systems with Sam Zucker — DT101 E143
Design Thinking 101
The tension between doing good research and delivering on tight timelines is something I've experienced throughout my career in design and innovation. This conversation with Sam Zucker unpacks powerful approaches to making research more sustainable and equitable while building systems that support continuous learning and engagement. What particularly struck me was Sam's practical framework for embedding research into organizational workflows. Her approach transforms research from a periodic, resource-intensive effort into an ongoing capability that shapes decision-making and product...
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Architecture + Decision Design + Learning Spaces + Strategy with Adam Griff — DT101 E142
Design Thinking 101
In this episode, I explore how architectural thinking enhances strategic decision-making with Adam Griff. Our conversation reveals how his architectural background shapes his approach to helping higher education institutions navigate complex decisions and create flexible space solutions. We dig into the challenges of designing spaces that can adapt to unknown futures and discuss how universities can better integrate with their communities. I particularly love how Adam frames flexibility in building design as creating platforms for future adaptations rather than just multi-purpose spaces....
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Joy, Transformation, and Design as Creative Liberation with Sahibzada Mayed — DT101 E141
Design Thinking 101
Sahibzada Mayed is a creative alchemist who uses design and storytelling to cultivate joy and imagination as tools of liberation. Mayed serves as the Co-Lead for Strategy and Research at Pause and Effect, a liberation-focused imagination and design collective based on Coast Salish territories of the Musqueam, Squamish, Tsleil-Waututh Nations. Beyond that, Mayed leads a small-scale startup, Naranji, that focuses on gender justice and decolonization in fashion. Today, we talk about decolonizing design and creative liberation. Listen to learn about: >> The impact of colonialism and power...
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Healthcare Design: Evidence-based, Business Fluent, and Change Prepared with Matt Van Der Tuyn — DT101 E140
Design Thinking 101
Matthew Van Der Tuyn is a designer and healthcare innovation strategist. Matt is the Senior Director of Design and Strategy at the Center for Health Care Transformation and Innovation at Penn Medicine. The mission at the Center is to serve as a catalyst and accelerator for initiatives that dramatically improve health outcomes, patient and provider experiences, and decrease the cost of care. Matt has had the unique opportunity to help build the Center’s design, discipline, and elevate design thinking as a key tool in Penn Medicine's organizational toolbox. Matt's design process balances...
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Behavioral Science in Human-centered Design with Christina Hanschke — DT101 E139
Design Thinking 101
Christina Hanschke's career journey has spanned many diverse roles. She's been a music therapist, nanny, and UX researcher, and she’s currently a Design Lead at Final Mile, where she applies a multidisciplinary approach to address pressing societal changes, drawing from behavioral science, human-centered design, and systems thinking. As an adjunct faculty at DePaul University, Christina extends her passion for leveraging behavioral science in human-centered design to the next generation of innovators fostering a diverse culture of curiosity and continual learning. Christina and I talk about...
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Organizational Design + Strategy + Change with Stephanie Gioia — DT101 E138
Design Thinking 101
Stephanie Gioia is a founder at Future Work Design with a focus on strategic planning and organizational innovation. She also serves as the director of the Either/Org project and teaches human-centered design for organizational innovation at the University of Oregon's Executive MBA program. She’s taught at Stanford’s d.school, University of Michigan, and Pacific Northwest College of Art. She is the founder of deckaholic.com, the world's largest library of card decks for problem solving and creativity. We talk about organizational design and strategy, and helping organizations navigate...
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Designing Your Career + UX for Small Business with Sarah Doody — DT101 E137
Design Thinking 101
Sarah Doody is a user research experience designer and researcher. She's also the founder of Career Strategy Lab, a UX career coaching program. In 2011, she co-created the curriculum and taught for General Assembly's first 11-week UX intensive program in New York City. She has extensive experience doing experience design, product strategy, and user research for companies including Fatherly, Sling, Citi Bike, We Work, Domino Magazine, Tictail, the Muse, Dow Jones and more. She speaks at conferences and teaches workshops worldwide. Today, we talk about designing your career and user experience...
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Design Ethics with George Aye — DT101 E136
Design Thinking 101
This is the inaugural DT101 Live!, with guest George Aye. George co-founded Greater Good Studio with the belief that design can help advance equity. Previously, he spent seven years at global innovation firm IDEO before being hired as the first human-centered designer at the Chicago Transit Authority. He speaks frequently across the US and internationally. George holds the position of Adjunct Full Professor at The School of the Art Institute of Chicago. Today, we are talking live about ethics in design in the design industry. Listen to learn about: >> What is ethical design?...
info_outlineThe tension between doing good research and delivering on tight timelines is something I've experienced throughout my career in design and innovation. This conversation with Sam Zucker unpacks powerful approaches to making research more sustainable and equitable while building systems that support continuous learning and engagement.
What particularly struck me was Sam's practical framework for embedding research into organizational workflows. Her approach transforms research from a periodic, resource-intensive effort into an ongoing capability that shapes decision-making and product development. This represents a crucial evolution in how we think about evidence-based design.
Questions This Episode Helps You Answer
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How can we build sustainable research systems that work within real-world constraints?
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What makes equity-based research different from traditional approaches?
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When should we adapt research methods for regulated environments?
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How might we use prototypes to get better research insights?
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Why do continuous research systems often succeed where one-off studies fail?
I invited Sam to share her expertise because she brings a unique perspective on making research work in complex, regulated environments while maintaining a deep commitment to equity and inclusion. Her experience spans from reimagining college financial aid experiences to transforming employer benefits, always with a focus on serving people who are often overlooked in traditional research.
Episode Highlights
[01:40] Sam describes her journey from an interdisciplinary background at Carnegie Mellon studying conceptual art, communication design, and sociolinguistics to founding Reroute Research, illustrating how diverse educational foundations can lead to innovative research approaches.
[03:00] Shares insights from working on College Abacus, a groundbreaking tool that helped students understand true college costs beyond sticker prices, demonstrating how design research can tackle complex financial decisions.
[05:30] Articulates her core focus: taking complex decisions (like college choice or insurance selection) and making them more understandable and actionable for users, revealing how design research can simplify without oversimplifying.
[08:30] Introduces the innovative "researcher in residence" model where she embeds within companies for 3–4 months, showing how deeper integration leads to better knowledge transfer and organizational impact.
[12:00] Explains her commitment to equity-based design and how it shapes recruiting practices, emphasizing the importance of reaching participants who are typically underrepresented.
[15:30] Details practical strategies for inclusive recruitment, including flexible scheduling, multiple contact attempts, and accommodating cancellations — demonstrating how research processes themselves need to be designed for equity.
[18:30] Shares approach to reciprocity in research, explaining how she ensures participants benefit from the process through information sharing and resource connections.
[22:00] Describes how to build sustainable research systems that organizations can maintain long-term, emphasizing the importance of integrating with existing tools and workflows.
[25:30] Provides a success story of Better Future Forward implementing a continuous research system, showing how research can become embedded in organizational culture.
[31:30] Explains her approach to using low-fidelity prototypes early in research to get more accurate insights about what people actually want versus what they say they want.
[37:30] Shares expertise on conducting research in highly regulated environments, emphasizing the importance of reading and understanding regulations firsthand rather than relying on others' interpretations.
[41:30] Offers valuable advice for researchers working in regulated environments: build relationships with supportive stakeholders who can help drive innovation forward while navigating constraints.
[45:00] Concludes with an important insight about the critical role of language in UX, noting how sometimes the most impactful research finding can be identifying the right word choice for users.
Questions to Help You Go Deeper
Learning
What surprised you about Sam's approach to continuous research systems and why?
How does her equity-based framework challenge or enhance your current research practice?
Which aspects of the researcher-in-residence model seem most valuable for your context?
Leading
How might you help your team understand and apply continuous research approaches?
Where in your organization would more equitable research practices create the most value?
What would success look like if you implemented ongoing research systems with your team?
Applying
What's one small experiment you could run next week with prototype-based research?
Which current challenge could you address using Sam's approach to participant recruiting?
How could you adapt the continuous research system to work in your specific context?
Practicing
How will you build more equitable research practices into your regular work?
What support or resources do you need to implement continuous research systems?
Resources I Recommend
Monteiro, Mike. Ruined by Design: How Designers Destroyed the World, and What We Can Do to Fix It. MULE BOOKS, 2024.
>>> Sam specifically mentioned finding this essential reading and I agree. This bold update of Monteiro's classic work challenges us to face the ethical implications of our design choices head-on. The 2024 edition feels especially relevant for research practitioners wrestling with AI ethics, privacy concerns, and the increasing impact of our design decisions on society. While provocative, it provides practical frameworks for making better choices about what we create and why.
Monteiro, Mike. Design Is a Job: The Necessary Second Edition. Edited by Lisa Marie Marquis, Mule Books, 2024.
>>> While not mentioned in our conversation, this book expands on many of the ideas in this episode and is essential reading for every designer.
Reece, Erik. Utopia Drive: A Road Trip through America’s Most Radical Idea. First paperback edition, Farrar, Straus and Giroux, 2017.
>>> Sam highlighted this as one of her favorite books, noting how it connects to design thinking through its exploration of systematic change efforts. The book examines America's history of utopian communities as design experiments. I find it valuable for understanding how ambitious visions for change interact with real-world constraints — a tension researchers regularly navigate.
Hall, Erika. Just Enough Research. 2024 edition, Mule Books, 2024.
>>> While not directly referenced by Sam, this newly updated guide aligns perfectly with her lean, practical approach to research. It provides excellent frameworks for right-sizing research efforts to match organizational constraints while maintaining rigor. The 2024 edition adds valuable perspective on remote research and working within regulated environments.
Gray, Dave, et al. Gamestorming: A Playbook for Innovators, Rulebreakers, and Changemakers. O’reilly, 2010.
>>> Sam mentioned returning to this book often, seeing it as an intersection of conceptual art and facilitation techniques. I agree. While positioned as a workshop tool, Gamestorming’s techniques for structured exploration and collaborative meaning-making are invaluable for research sessions. The methods can help create the trust and openness Sam emphasized as crucial for good research.
Tools We Discussed
Typeform: For research participant feedback loops
Salesforce: Example of embedding research in existing systems
Asana/Jira/Notion: Options for research operations management
Deepen Your Learning
5.5 Things Every Designer Should Know About Hacking Bureaucracy with Marina Nitze — DT101 E106
Language + Design Research + Researcher Self-Care with Abby Bajuniemi — DT101 E96
Remember to join Ask Like a Designer, our learning community at fluidhive.com/podcast for more resources and conversations about design thinking in practice!