Libsyn Directory

91: Growth Addiction and Water in the American Southwest – with Gary Wockner

Release Date: 06/30/2025

91: Growth Addiction and Water in the American Southwest – with Gary Wockner

GrowthBusters

Prolific river protector Gary Wockner gives us the straight scoop on the state of the Colorado River (and others), and the growth obsession that keeps southwest states and cities from responding rationally to increasingly scarce water resources. TODAY, nearly half the world’s population experiences severe water shortages at least part of the year. So far, fresh water issues in the American Southwest amount – mostly - to first world problems – like “I can’t water my lawn whenever I want,” “it’s hard to keep the golf course lush and green with less water,” or “How can...

90: Degrowth – by Design or Disaster

GrowthBusters

Learn about a new think tank that’s doing some of the most important thinking on the planet. Matt Orsagh is co-founder of the Arketa Institute for Post-Growth Finance and co-author of a just-published white paper, By Disaster Or Design: How Finance Can Evolve to Avoid the Worst of the Ecological Challenges We Face and Enable the Transition to a Better Economic Model. That paper, and this episode, offer an introduction to degrowth, the rational response for a society in ecological overshoot. Degrowth is “an equitable downscaling of production and consumption that increases human well-being...

89: Bezos - We’re Going to Need Another Planet

GrowthBusters

Amazon billionaire Jeff Bezos thinks the U.S. can grow its way out of a massive deficit. He says we need a “growth mindset.” Stephanie and Dave call it a “suicide economic model,” and note that growth addiction is exactly what afflicts most policymakers around the world. The dynamic duo discuss the little-understood fact that a shrinking economy can be healthy – when it accompanies a contracting population. Bezos also proposes that we plunder the universe in order to protect Earth “we've sent robotic probes to all of the planets in this solar system. This is the good one.”) Also:...

88: Shutdown315: Start Post-Growth Living Saturday

GrowthBusters

Unplug from an overshoot economy serving a growth-obsessed oligarchy. On March 15, the multitudes will begin a general strike across the U.S. – starving our profit and growth obsessed system. The commoners will reclaim power taken by the elite. Learn about Shutdown315 as Stephanie and Dave discuss, and chat with two Shutdown315 movement organizers, Chet and Bones. We’re excited to share this with you, because Shutdown315 may be a great on-ramp to post-growth living. It starts March 15, 2025, and continues. We also launch the GrowthBusters book club – listen to learn our first book...

87: The Shit Hits the Fan

GrowthBusters

In the face of accelerated global warming and increasingly severe consequences of climate disruption, UN projections are outdated and understating the problem, and the U.S. is going to produce and burn fossil fuels like they’re going out of business. Meanwhile Trump wants to be sure Gazans aren’t using condoms to float bombs over the border, and to be sure condoms and other family planning resources are not available the world over. On a positive note, a small town in Canada has adopted a “Limits to Growth” policy. Learn more about it in this episode. Please take a short survey to help...

86: Projecting Optimism in the Time of Overshoot

GrowthBusters

Is optimism required in order to alert folks to our ecological overshoot emergency? Dave and Stephanie discuss the challenge of communicating the depth and urgency of overshoot without shutting people down. Also: Dave shares how he and a group of local growthbusters projected a guerilla “pop-up” billboard on New Year’s Eve – attempting to provide an honest reality check, but not put revelers off (or entice police or security personnel to stop them) The wisdom in U.S. President Jimmy Carter’s “malaise” speech Congestion pricing results in kids walking, riding bikes, or taking...

85: Election 2024 – Stephanie Attempts to Talk Dave Off the Ledge

GrowthBusters

Dave and Stephanie dig into what caused voters to ignore Donald Trump’s felony convictions, indecency, incompetence, narcissism, and dishonesty – and elect him president. This includes a review of the 50-year war waged by the mega-rich and corporations to undermine civility, compassion, equity and rule of law, to elevate the free enterprise system, rob the working class and enrich themselves. The Lewis Powell Memo kicked this into high gear 50 years ago. They also propose theories about why Dave’s campaign for president failed in its mission to alert the public, media and policymakers to...

84: Strong Economy Begins With Shrinking Workforce

GrowthBusters

A new study debunks depopulation panic. For decades economists have perpetuated the false narrative, “If population growth reverses and begins to decline, the economy is doomed.” This belief has so frequently been repeated by economists, politicians, business people and the public, that it is generally taken as gospel. Psychologists have characterized the phenomenon as the illusory-truth effect, or believing something to be true if it’s repeated often enough, even if it is false. For the first time in modern history, a handful of countries are witnessing actual population declines. The...

83: We Roasted Elon Musk, Raising the Curiosity of Thousands

GrowthBusters

We made it VERY clear that Musk’s worries about population collapse are ill-founded, and that attracted thousands more listeners than usual to our podcast. How did that happen? What kind of comments did we get? Find out in this episode. And get important truths about overshoot and overpopulation. Plus, learn how we’ll give YOU the mic for an episode of the GrowthBusters podcast. We explain the long wait for this episode, and share our offer to listeners to “adopt” a future episode to discuss an aspect of limits to growth important to you. If you do want to guest-host an...

82: Governor Whitmer Unveils Ponzi Population Policy

GrowthBusters

The Michigan Governor is apparently unaware that the world, the U.S. and even Michigan are overpopulated. Michigan population has been growing a little too slowly for her taste, so Whitmer has appointed a Chief Growth Officer and formed the Growing Michigan Together Council. Not surprisingly, her bottom line is to “spur economic growth.” In an episode you should share with YOUR governor, you’ll get the details and find out why this news puts “a bee in Dave’s bonnet,” plus news about some outstanding new studies, a wonderful commentary in Newsweek, a crazy podcast you’ll like, and...

More Episodes

Prolific river protector Gary Wockner gives us the straight scoop on the state of the Colorado River (and others), and the growth obsession that keeps southwest states and cities from responding rationally to increasingly scarce water resources.

TODAY, nearly half the world’s population experiences severe water shortages at least part of the year. So far, fresh water issues in the American Southwest amount – mostly - to first world problems – like “I can’t water my lawn whenever I want,” “it’s hard to keep the golf course lush and green with less water,” or “How can I develop my next residential project if there’s no water?” But the future could be grim, if we can’t get the cities and states into a 12-step program to break the growth addiction habit.

Our guest, Gary Wockner, works globally as an advocate and consultant for protection of rivers. He founded and directs:

Save the Colorado
Save the Poudre
Colorado River chapter of CASSE

He also cofounded Tell the Dam Truth, a nonprofit that supports river-protection groups by engaging with federal and state agencies to make sure that the greenhouse gas emissions caused by dams and reservoirs are counted, reported, and then considered during policy making, rulemaking, and legislation.

He most recently led opposition to the Northern Integrated Supply Project. He filed a lawsuit to stop it, and recently settled the suit. He shares about the settlement in this episode.
Gary is also author of numerous books, including:

River Warrior: Fighting to Protect the World’s Rivers
Comeback Wolves
Pulse of the River

LINKS:

News stories, opinion pieces, books and more related to Gary Wockner’s work: https://garywockner.com/all-garys-writing-advocacy/

Disaster Capitalism on the Colorado River - Column by Gary Wockner:
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2016/03/27/colorado-river-drought-destruction-interior-moonshot-disaster-capitalism-column/80468488/

Save the Colorado: https://savethecolorado.org/

Save the Poudre: https://www.savethepoudre.org/

Tell the Dam Truth: https://tellthedamtruth.com/

Colorado River Chapter of CASSE (Center for the Advancement of the Steady State Economy): https://steadystate.org/meet/chapters/

Colorado River Basin Climate and Hydrology: State of the Science: https://wwa.colorado.edu/resources/colorado-river-resources/CRBreport

Colorado River States Still Have No Unified Long-Term Management Plan and ‘Are Just About Out of Time,’ Experts Warn – May 31, 2025 Denver Post story:
https://www.denverpost.com/2025/05/31/colorado-river-negotiations-2026-deadline/

Water Supply Uncertainty Could Slow Growth in Colorado Springs – May 2024 news story
KRDO13 Colorado Springs: https://youtu.be/rvGGqZHwHdM?si=bimFT2BSWlCq_c5C

Officials Fear 'Complete Doomsday Scenario' for Drought-Stricken Colorado River -
The Washington Post, December 1, 2022: https://www.yahoo.com/news/officials-fear-complete-doomsday-scenario-202316932.html?guccounter=1

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On the GrowthBusters podcast, we come to terms with the limits to growth, explore the joy of sustainable living, and provide a recovery program from our society’s growth addiction (economic/consumption and population). This podcast is part of the GrowthBusters project to raise awareness of overshoot and end our culture’s obsession with, and pursuit of, growth.

Dave Gardner directed the documentary GrowthBusters: Hooked on Growth, which Stanford Biologist Paul Ehrlich declared “could be the most important film ever made.” Co-host, and self-described "energy nerd," Stephanie Gardner has degrees in Environmental Studies and Environmental Law & Policy.

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