How to Market From Your Centers in Human Design

In this episode of The Humane Marketing Show, I’m joined by Jen Freeman to explore how your Human Design centers — both defined and open — reveal your natural marketing superpowers. We unpack what these centers are, how they shape the energy you radiate or absorb, and why knowing them helps you release the pressure to market like someone you’re not.

Jen clears up common myths and shows how understanding your centers can gently guide you to choose marketing strategies and business models that feel authentic and easeful.

If you’re a heart-centered entrepreneur or Changemaker ready to market from who you truly are, not from hustle or hype, this conversation will inspire and ground you.

Previous Episode with Jen here.

Here’s what we discussed in this episode:

• What centers are in Human Design and their origins.
• Defined centers as areas of consistent, radiating energy.
• Open centers as areas where we receive and are influenced by others’ energy.
• The importance of knowing your defined and open centers for self-understanding.
• Common misconceptions and the value of open centers for gaining wisdom.
• How understanding your centers can guide decisions and reduce pressure to be someone you’re not.
• How your open centers can reveal what you are naturally drawn to offer or “sell” in your business or marketing.
• Using your Human Design to choose marketing strategies and business models that fit your authentic self.

Watch this episode on YouTube

Join our Workshop on June 4th

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Transcript

 

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Sarah Santacroce: Jen Freeman, welcome back to the humane marketing podcast it's good to hang out with you as always.

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jen freeman: Oh, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me, Sarah.

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Sarah Santacroce: Thank you. You've been on the show before. And we talked about human design. And if people want to go back to that episode, it's episode 194. So humane dot marketing forward. Slash. 194.

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Sarah Santacroce: This way, we take it a bit farther and further and deeper into, you know not so much about the different types, but more about the centers specifically defined and undefined centers. So again, if this is all kind of like complete, weird language to you. It's probably best that you 1st listen to episode 1, 94, so that you understand a little bit of the basics of human design.

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Sarah Santacroce: So, Jen, why don't you explain? For people who are relatively new to human design what the centers are like that we're going to be talking about today.

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jen freeman: So the centers in human design. They're a synthesis of many different systems. So they are. They do reflect the Chakras. They do reflect the Kabbalah tree of life.

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jen freeman: They go all the way down to genetic code and organs. So so when you look at a human design chart, it's a 2D representation of a 3D. Lived experience. And so the the centers themselves probably the simplest way to say it. They're they're portals for one, because where they're when they're open. It's where you're receiving information from the world, and then where they're fixed. It's where you're putting it out. I like to think of it as a radio station. So 101 Sarah

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jen freeman: going out, and that, you know, never ending, would be where your centers are fixed, where your energy is consistent, and you're radiating that energy into your environment where they're open is where you're receiving other people's. You're receiving my 1, 0 1 gin, you know.

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jen freeman: into yours. So so being with that constant interplay

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jen freeman: that's always happening. But this is why it's so important to know your centers, which one are defined because that's consistent. That's you. That's your radio station and which ones are open that are receiving because you're being conditioned there, which we'll talk more about. I'm sure.

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Sarah Santacroce: I'm just gonna hold up for people who are watching on Youtube. I'm holding up this. Yeah, this, this chart, that kind of shows the the centers. So you mentioned the Chakras? So yes, there's the Chakras, but there's a few more right. What? What's in addition to the Chakra.

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jen freeman: Because that's part of like the Kabbalah tree of life. For example, if people are familiar with what that looks like, so it's a similar recognition that there are these portals of energy that are coming through us and to us.

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jen freeman: Right? So. And that's where the G center is unique. And that's that heart you just showed them.

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Sarah Santacroce: In the center.

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jen freeman: That that is what's called the magnetic monopole. And it's basically what creates the illusion of a separate self

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jen freeman: and sets direction so that there's the apparent sense of sereness

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jen freeman: right? Right? So and and again, human design is very deep. So I'm very aware with your listeners that probably every sentence we say could create more questions in their mind. And I just want them to know you're right on track. This is the nature of this. It's a very deep subject, a life, a lifelong inquiry. Really, you know, Sarah and I both have

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jen freeman: caught the bug. I've had the bug for 23 years. So I think you've had it

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jen freeman: 10, maybe. Yeah, yeah.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, but not as deep as you, you know.

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jen freeman: Yeah, yeah, so, but just just knowing that if it does raise questions, it's okay, it's great. Actually, it'll take you into wonderful places. But so we're gonna both do our best to keep it as simple, so you can apply it right away as possible.

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Sarah Santacroce: So you talked a little bit already about centers, one of them being the ones where

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Sarah Santacroce: you know who you are and the other ones being the ones where you receive energy. So the open centers are the ones where you receive other people's message and energy and the defined, or the would you call them closed centers? The defined centers are the ones where you

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Sarah Santacroce: you know you can tap into, because that's where you know who you are. Is that correct?

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jen freeman: Yeah.

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jen freeman: yes. So so something called the neutrino stream, which is an infinitesimally small particle of mass traveling just under the speed of light. So the defined centers. So basically, we are all being inundated with these tiny, tiny particles all the time, millions of them per second.

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jen freeman: So what? Where the centers are defined. It's where you have consistent conditioning by the planets of neutrinos. Okay? So it's you're still being conditioned. But it's all the time consistent. Your entire life. That's what's happening.

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jen freeman: Whereas where it's white is where you're both being conditioned by planets, by people, by animals, by plants, by like, it's like, it's it's really the felt sense of it

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jen freeman: is that basically, it's like the the where the centers are fixed. It's like the furniture. You never really think about it. You know, it's just there. It's consistent for you all the time, whereas where they're open, it's much more like the television

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jen freeman: like flashy images, colors, lights, and our attention is very naturally drawn to the TV over the furniture, you know, unless you're a very, I guess.

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jen freeman: meditative person who likes to stare at your couch? That most of us are going to be drawn to those open centers. So

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jen freeman: so, part of how we learn about ourselves is, we see our defined centers.

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jen freeman: So let's say that, I have a defined emotional center which is the center of authority. It means that I need at least 24 h to make decisions. It means my emotions move on a wave

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jen freeman: meaning. I have a lot of feelings. They're data points.

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jen freeman: So if I don't understand that about myself.

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jen freeman: and I don't understand that someone with an open emotional center would be experiencing my emotions. They'd be. I would be. I would be conditioning them with my

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jen freeman: promotion.

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Sarah Santacroce: So I actually have an undefined solar plexus.

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jen freeman: So so that would be where my emotions

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jen freeman: you would be feeling them. And this is so. Wherever you're open.

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jen freeman: you will be feeling somewhat the conditioning twice as big. Basically, so often we think we're the opposite of what we are. So like, someone with an open emotional center can feel like, oh, I'm so emotional!

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jen freeman: But really they're feeling all of the emotions around them.

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jen freeman: Right, and it doesn't mean that they don't have their own. But it's it's not the same thing. It's it's a much cooler experience than the emotions are very hot. So if you have it fixed, you just naturally have a lot of heat going through your system.

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jen freeman: So so the essence of this. And again, Noah is always with you and design. The challenge is to

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jen freeman: essentialize it for people to apply is that if you look at your chart. You get a reading, you start to understand.

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jen freeman: You have incredible. You're incredibly empowered to understand who you are in any environment, how you influence people, how you affect them, and also how you're influenced and affected.

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jen freeman: It changes everything, everything

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jen freeman: so. And that's something just a very quick, anecdotal evidence. I have a totally open heart ego will center.

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jen freeman: So part of what that means is that I really need to do things at the right time. I'm basically

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jen freeman: it's not. I'm not here to to will things right? Where if somebody, 30% of the population has that fixed, they are, it's healthy for their heart, because it's about the heart center, but when it's open it actually hurts your heart to try to will things into being.

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Sarah Santacroce: Hmm.

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jen freeman: And so I was in the financial industry years ago, which was a hundred percent commission. I was in this in the States, in the mortgage business in California, and a very, very competitive market with the broker's license, which is like

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jen freeman: and it my God! It was so painful! It was so painful, and I I finally used this tool to understand it was

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jen freeman: I was totally in the wrong place.

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Sarah Santacroce: Right? Yeah, yeah, that's exactly how understanding who we are and how we're wired helps us. Then, you know, choose the the right career path, but also the right business plan and the right business module and and marketing tools, etc, etc. Yeah,

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Sarah Santacroce: So would you say that, like, I think there's some kind of misconception, maybe, about open centers, like people think they're kind of

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Sarah Santacroce: scared about open centers. Maybe. Because yeah. Tell us, tell us why, what's the fear behind these open centers?

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jen freeman: Yeah, so so the thing about the open centers, is it? Well, if we basically just go with it, all human beings seem to tend to want to be in control.

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Sarah Santacroce: And so the open centers are where they are not in control.

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Sarah Santacroce: Right?

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jen freeman: By definition. It's like they're not in control. Right? It's like, this is where, if different influences, different information. But the positive side of this is. It's where you're you're here to be wise in those centers. It's like you're constantly having wine tasting of all these different possibilities. So

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jen freeman: when you are defined. You. You're just it. You're not actually wise about it. You just are. It.

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Sarah Santacroce: Right.

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jen freeman: But where you're open is where you get to taste all these different people's fields and energies. And so like again going back to the open heart example. So I'm here to be wise about what is truly a value.

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jen freeman: and that is a very big difference versus trying to prove I am valuable.

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jen freeman: which is where the people have it fixed, are trying to prove that they're valuable. And again, it's correct for them, right? They're supposed to get out there and be like woo, you know, especially in the States. We're so very sales oriented. So you know they they succeed very well in those environments.

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jen freeman: But if you don't.

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jen freeman: if you understand so like, even right now, sitting with you, I feel completely grounded and confident that what we're talking about has great wisdom and great application.

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jen freeman: but it has nothing to do with me.

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jen freeman: It's I'm I'm just. I'm just expressing what I've taste, tested and learned, and then I that ideally, I want them to go apply it

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jen freeman: right.

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Sarah Santacroce: Hmm.

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jen freeman: I've tasted. Yeah, go ahead.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, yeah, this is good. So I have this

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Sarah Santacroce: spreadsheet in front of me, where

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Sarah Santacroce: I basically looked at my undefined centers.

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Sarah Santacroce: And then I

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Sarah Santacroce: given your like, we we did a class together that you taught and given that information. I basically sat down and said, Here's what I'm selling.

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Sarah Santacroce: because it's placed in the undefined centers. Right? So, for example, I have an undefined heart and ego. And so what I'm selling is worthiness

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Sarah Santacroce: or belonging to community or adaptation in times of shock

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Sarah Santacroce: or ethics. So these kind of things.

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Sarah Santacroce: because that's what I'm constantly learning because of my undefined heart and ego. That's exactly what I'm here to, you know, give and share and sell.

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Sarah Santacroce: So that's would you say, that's an applied example of of how we can?

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah, tap into these open centers.

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jen freeman: Yes, and really harness their power.

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jen freeman: It's like, in a way, realizing what, Major, you're in in university. You're like, oh, biologist, right? This whole time. I was trying to, you know, be a Wall Street, and now you know or do business analysis. But I'm actually meant to be over here, and the sense of relief, the sense of oh, it all makes sense and the sense of not putting pressure on yourself anymore. To be something that you're not

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jen freeman: is so big, so like I have a chart of an entrepreneur. As an example.

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jen freeman: so much of my design. I'm designed to get out there do stuff.

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jen freeman: but I know I know that's my chart. I know that's my design. But I'm I'm here. So I have a lot of energy, basically. And I have the gate of power connected to my throat, so I know, when I speak that it will be heard

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jen freeman: right one way or the other. You know I can't say if they're gonna like what they're hearing, but what it's gonna be heard.

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jen freeman: whereas if someone does not have a fixed throat center.

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jen freeman: then what that means is, they don't have consistent access to their voice

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jen freeman: being heard, so they often will have lots of stories like self-talk stories right about oh, people don't love me, or they don't like me, or they're not listening to me, but really on a mechanics level, they just don't have a fixed

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jen freeman: throat. So in that case they could learn. If they have something important to communicate, maybe write an email, write a letter

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jen freeman: that written communication could be received much better than spoken.

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Sarah Santacroce: Right, yeah.

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jen freeman: Sometimes people with open voices are so wise about the nature of speech that they become like incredible speakers. So it's it. But it depends on how how they're what they're telling themselves about it, right? Like, oh, no one listens.

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jen freeman: It's it's really it's so. It's so literal and physical and mechanical. That's the other thing. It's

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jen freeman: yeah. The throat is a big, big topic, a big topic.

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Sarah Santacroce: And it's a big topic in marketing as well, because you know the throat is your voice, and how you are going to be heard, and so, understanding

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Sarah Santacroce: what your role is in this lifetime, and how you're supposed to be sharing that voice. Well, that's that's kind of a big deal right. And if you're forcing yourself to do one thing like you know, speaking on stage. But then you find out after a reading. Well, that's not exactly what's going to be easy for you. It's still doable, probably, but it's not going to be easy for you.

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jen freeman: Exactly well, and and to your point, I'm I'm in the process like we chatted about it.

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jen freeman: This in inspiration came to me. I mean, it's I'm workshopping. But I'm my current note. Name is the current current Newsletter. So I have the. My. One of my main gates is the basically the now

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jen freeman: I'm literally the voice of the now. So this is part of me using my voice of like, I'm just so aware of the now. And you know I have a background with astrology and cosmologies, and and I've very drawn to create a newsletter

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jen freeman: to help people in real time

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jen freeman: be with, especially as things are changing so radically that there's an underlying support that they can lean into the quality of time. There's a consistency in the quality of time.

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jen freeman: and it's straight up. It's it's part of me being like I am the voice of the now, that's all I ever talk about to anyone all the time. Right.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah.

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jen freeman: So it's cool, because I just feel like, all right, just try it. You've been doing it for years, anyway. Why not just do it, and so it gives it so I feel a sense of confidence.

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Sarah Santacroce: It gives you these insights. Right? The.

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jen freeman: It really does.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yes, I want to take another example from from my what I written down. Oh, as you know, I have a undefined head.

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Sarah Santacroce: and so a big thing of what I'm selling is inspiration. Right? Is change, inspiration to do things differently. So yeah, understanding that. And just saying.

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Sarah Santacroce: because people kind of wonder sometimes, you know, family members like, what are you doing like? You're writing books like, how does that make any money? Or I'm like, well, that's that's my role in this lifetime is to inspire and bring about change and talk about change. And so just.

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Sarah Santacroce: And it's not always easy to accept that either. To say, you know, is this like what I'm doing like? Shouldn't I be going back to, you know, selling Linkedin profile reviews and things like that? But I was not happy in that role, right? And I'm also a 5 1, as you know. And so it's all about.

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Sarah Santacroce: you know, spreading the message to a large audience. And so understanding that and going, okay, so yeah, I'll just accept that role. And this is what I do is, yeah, it's kind of like this big relief and big understanding as well.

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jen freeman: Oh, that's so beautiful. And and just I wanna point out to your listeners that part of what Sarah's talking about right now is that over the years we've known each other. Is that so? Being a 5, 1 means part of her role is one to many. She's here to amplify messages to larger groups of people, where, when she was selling the Linkedin profile that was one to one essentially.

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Sarah Santacroce: Right, yeah.

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jen freeman: And so it was not the right

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jen freeman: use where you can feel, and it just is off. It's like you're wearing like shoes a size too small, with a pebble in it. You know it just feels wrong. So it's in. And that's the thing. Also, like Sarah just expressed that accepting your design does not mean

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jen freeman: oh, no, I guess I just have to like

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jen freeman: oh, it's right. It's not like you're settling like you're like, oh, I had these dreams, and then, you know, and now I'm just going to settle for my design. It's like No, no, your design. The more you align with it, then totally unexpected synchronicities and possibilities open up things you could never have imagined.

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Sarah Santacroce: It's.

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jen freeman: And that's part of the mystery of all of this, you know.

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jen freeman: and as Sarah knows, I have a 20 plus years of Qigong background which is working with Chi for those who don't know it, working with energy. And this just completely maps to Qigong as well. You have to know your piece of the puzzle, as my teacher would say. If you know your piece of the puzzle.

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jen freeman: then you can fall into the hole effortlessly.

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jen freeman: But if you're fighting your piece of the puzzle, and you're and you're like struggling to be something else. You can't actually connect into all the resources clients. It's it's it's it's so paradoxical, but it's like the more you can accept the limitation, the more you can thrive.

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Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, yeah, it's beautiful. There's there's another thing that I wrote down here is that I'm selling to twos.

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Sarah Santacroce: So.

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jen freeman: Yeah.

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Sarah Santacroce: That.

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Sarah Santacroce: How does that have to do? What does that have to do with the with the centers? Or is that something else? I can't remember how we got to that.

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jen freeman: Yeah, yeah, me, neither. Actually, the lines that's in lines and profile stuff. And that's styles of learning. That's so. It's not. It's not actually, it's not the centers. It's.

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Sarah Santacroce: That's about the centers. Okay.

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jen freeman: Sounded like.

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Sarah Santacroce: Action from the centers. Okay.

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jen freeman: Yeah, it's more like a well

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jen freeman: to be just for those whose minds might be like, huh? So there's Gates, and those gates are fixed in a hexagram from the I Ching. The I Ching has 6 lines, so so part of what Sarah is saying is that like? So let's say she has 53, and 54 is her son and earth right? So if it's 0 point 2, it means the second line of the Hexagram. So it's incredibly precise and specific

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jen freeman: and very helpful. But but in the twos just also complete. They're they are projecting outward. But they don't actually understand. Other people can see them. They're kind of very mysterious, the twos, you know. And so in a lot of ways, Sarah, with the 5 of like she's holding up the flag of like, Hey, I've got answers over here.

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jen freeman: Opportunities to be like.

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jen freeman: can someone actually help me, you know, and of course many of us will be going towards the 5, but also 2 and 5

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jen freeman: are related in the lower Hexagram and the upper hexagram. It goes 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, so 2 and 5 are are both projected on as well.

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Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, so.

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jen freeman: So. So there's a deep relationship between the fives and the twos.

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Sarah Santacroce: So okay, let's bring it back to the the centers. What? What?

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Sarah Santacroce: you know? What else can you tell us about these centers? I think they like a

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Sarah Santacroce: I feel like they come with a lot of vulnerability and and conditioning, as you have mentioned before. Right? So there's a big

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Sarah Santacroce: opportunity for healing, I guess.

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jen freeman: Such a big opportunity. And so and this is where, understanding that we are all conditioned. It's the nature of being a human being that from the moment we're born we're being conditioned. We call it culture. We call it family, right? So no one gets out of conditioning. So this is not

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jen freeman: this, is it? This is part of being human being. So then, from that place you can then go. Okay. How do I be wise about my conditioning. So I I have a totally open Asna of the thinking mind.

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jen freeman: And so and again, this is never ending. You're constantly refining this. It's not like you learn it once, and then you move on. It's like it's constant. So I've been in this past couple of months, and a very deep understanding of how deeply my mind is stimulated.

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jen freeman: and how important it is for me to be very aware and careful of what I put into my mind, especially as we're in all of these changes all over the world, right? As we're in this great moment of emergency emergence. There's a lot of people pouring a lot of fear and panic into the field where it's not good for my mind at all. Not that it's good for any mind, right, but if you have a fixed mind. It's not going to hit you the same. So I had to have a really deep process of being with.

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jen freeman: Who am I gonna look to for information. How am I gonna interact, you know, especially being in the States right enough, said the States. Quite a place right now. So and it was very pivotal to me to be like. Look, your mind is incredibly sensitive.

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jen freeman: You don't help anyone or anything by flooding your mind with all of this toxicity.

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jen freeman: I'm not designed for it, you know, someone with a fixed mind

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jen freeman: in a lot of ways. They're they're meant to be out there like hitting people with their thoughts. Basically, it's like they can like, do this.

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Sarah Santacroce: They're the ones invading you with their stories. Right?

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jen freeman: You know. And so and that's something where I've been. I really had to come to peace with and really, deeply be like, okay, if I feel drawn, I will go. Listen to a person, you know an article, a podcast. But other than that, I'm going to trust spirits going to bring me what I need to know, to play my part hopefully for the the benefit of all beings. Right? The sense of but it's part of that.

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jen freeman: I got to be real about the vulnerability, and both my parents had fixed minds so also to bring in again family. So in this journey of learning, how deeply their minds

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jen freeman: impacted me.

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jen freeman: So really, bit by bit, over time, unpacking like, Oh, wait! That's Mom's fears. Oh, that's oh, wait! That's how Dad approaches it right, and they're both fives.

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jen freeman: So they have a very different gig. I'm a i'm a 1 3. So I'm much more my own test tube. I get to come out and share my research right. But I got conditioned to think I was supposed to be

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jen freeman: something else, and that was very painful. So again, the more you can recognize your conditioning. And so the great place for your listeners to start very simply, I mean, complexly, but simply. Look at your family origin.

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jen freeman: What was held as values? Right? Was it money? Was it education? Was it family? Were they very open-minded and international? Were they very closed-minded like like, and not from a judgment place. Just true observation.

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jen freeman: and then look at your own centers. Look, where are you? Open, where were you being conditioned? If you have the capacity, you can run free charts all over the place. You could look at your mom and dad's chart if you knew the birth info.

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jen freeman: and you can. Just that is profound, profound.

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Sarah Santacroce: Hmm, hmm.

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jen freeman: So that's a great place to start right. And then, if we want to go straight to marketing business application.

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jen freeman: look at your business model. Look at your design right? And and so let's again take me because I know my design. When I was in 100 commission, financial huge egos everywhere. It was not my strength at all. But once I let go. I've had this coaching and consulting business for 12 years.

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jen freeman: I'm just being me bringing forward my research. That's all about spirit embodiment. These are my gates. How do you bring spirit into matter? How do you truly be aligned with the now in a powerful way and speak powerfully.

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jen freeman: so I just let go into it, and I'm very happy.

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Sarah Santacroce: Happy.

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jen freeman: Don't feel like I'm swimming upstream. People just find me.

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jen freeman: I just it's great. So that's what I would love for them to hear as well is just. If you feel like you're stuck, or suffering, or difficult man, there is a way, and it's not far or hard. It's actually right in front of you and these centers.

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Sarah Santacroce: Yeah. And what I, what I like about this is that we're not trying to.

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Sarah Santacroce: you know, use human design as some kind of tactic that we're now going to

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Sarah Santacroce: go into psycho mode, and, you know, try to get because we don't have access to our clients. Human design, usually, at least not our prospects. Human design. It's all about finding out more who you are.

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jen freeman: Yes.

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Sarah Santacroce: Using that to your advantage, and being more authentic, being the real, you right that that's what this is all about, and and for people listening. I think they probably understand by now that this is complex, you know, like this is very complex. There's all these different layers.

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Sarah Santacroce: And yeah, if if you're interested in finding out more and going a bit deeper. Well, Jen is coming back to us to the Humane marketing circle to do another workshop on June 4, th Jen, tell us a little bit what we're going to be doing on June 4.th

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jen freeman: Great. So one of my favorite things to do with coaching groups, such as Sarah's, is that we'll have an introduction looking at the main thing. But then we're going to have 5 people that will have their charts in advance that are essentially on the hot seat. So we get to talk for 5 to 10 min with each person, and look at the application so that you in real time can learn. You can see. And it's just fascinating how different each person is right. And then you hear their stories of how they've been applying it, or what they're doing in their business. And it's

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jen freeman: it's it is so inspiring. Speaking of, you know, inspiration right? So hopefully, you would leave that workshop both with an idea of how your own charts working, looking at like, where? Where are the strengths like? Where? Where? You're already playing to your strengths? And so you're like great. Just more of that, and be able to go. Oh, right, I'm trying to do this over here, you know. Maybe I should not do that. And so I think you we learn so much from each other

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jen freeman: to see multiple people, especially in this back to back way.

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jen freeman: It's like magic. It really is like magic.

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Sarah Santacroce: Exactly. Even if your chart doesn't get picked. It's like, Oh, wow! I have this one, too. So

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Sarah Santacroce: yeah, no wonder

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Sarah Santacroce: I'm doing this. And I like this marketing tactic. Or no wonder I don't like that one. So yeah, so much wisdom coming out of that. So I can't wait to. Yeah, to have you talk to us about open and or defined and undefined centers. But for people who can't make it to the workshop, please tell

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Sarah Santacroce: tell listeners where they can find you and your newsletter that you're going to be.

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jen freeman: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So my website's Jen Freemanco, JENF. REEM, a, n.co. And I offer one of the things is I call them the Decode, your design sessions. And I've actually created my own method includes human design, astrology, numerology, and something called the personality system because I really love Meta context. I love looking at the real big picture and then helping give people a strategy of how to, because to me how to live a happy life.

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jen freeman: It's like really loving, understanding your vehicle understanding like what who you are, what you're here to do. And so so. And I also do ongoing coaching with people based on this kind of stuff as well. And one thing I want to say just to really.

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jen freeman: I really hope from my heart to your heart. Whoever's listening as much as there's complexity, and there is. There is a simplicity here that if you, if you only heard this. Just understand, there's a way that you are

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jen freeman: a radio station that's putting out, and there's a way that you are receiving. If you want to call it Yin and Yang. There's a fundamental dynamic going, and the more you can be curious about that, the more you're going to free yourself up from so much, so just even that alone could take you so far.

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Sarah Santacroce: What I'll never forget from our reading is is where you showed me. You know the push against and the resistance that creates. And yeah, that image keeps coming back. I'm like, don't push, don't push, it's not. It's not going to be easier. So just.

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jen freeman: I'm good. I'm so glad. And I really it's a great joy. This

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jen freeman: this whole thing Sarah and I are talking about, and we both share this as a value, I feel confident in it. We want to see a world that's happier and healthier, where people are more engaged. They're not stuck in their conditioning. They're bringing forward their unique gifts. They're able to. Really.

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jen freeman: it is going to be through business. It's gonna be through how we connect with each other. It's just, and that's part of both our passion. We want people to really know who they are and succeed and thrive everywhere in our lives.

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Sarah Santacroce: Beautiful. So yeah, please join us humane dot marketing forward slash workshop. And it's taking place on June 4.th

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Sarah Santacroce: Thanks so much for doing this little preview for our listeners here on the podcast and I can't wait to see you. Thanks, Jen.

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jen freeman: I look forward to it.