Partnering on a new Group Program – Bonus Convo No. 1

In this heartfelt and honest conversation, I’m joined once again by Kerry Dobson as we explore what it really looks like to co-create a meaningful group program.

We talk about the power of true collaboration, the importance of aligned values, and the beauty of building something new together—with transparency, curiosity, and care.

If you’ve ever wondered how to design group experiences in partnership (and with integrity), this episode will both ground and inspire you.

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Speaker 0:  hello, humane marketers. welcome back to the humane marketing podcast. the place to be for the generation that cares. this is a show where we talk about running your business in a way that feels good to you, is aligned with your values, and also resonates with today's conscious customers because it's humane, ethical, and non pushy. i'm sarah senecroce, your hippie turned conscious business coach for quietly rebellious entrepreneurs and change makers, mama bear of the humane marketing circle, and renegade author of marketing like we're human, selling like we're human, and soon also my third book, business like we're human. if after listening to the show for a while, you're ready to move on to the next level and start implementing and would welcome a community of like minded, quietly rebellious entrepreneurs who discuss with transparency what works and what doesn't work in business, then we'd love to welcome you in our humane marketing circle. if you're picturing your typical facebook group, let me paint a new picture for you. this is a closed community of like minded entrepreneurs from all over the world who come together in two meetups per month to hold each other accountable and build their business in a conscious and sustainable way. we all share with transparency and vulnerability what works and what doesn't work in our business so that you can figure out what works for you, instead of keep throwing spaghetti on the wall and seeing what sticks. find out more at humane dot marketing forward slash circle. twice per year, i host my signature program, the marketing like we're human, aka the client resonator program live. in a deep dive into the seven p's of the humane marketing mandala, you will learn to market from within. this program is for you if you want and need to get more clients, but want to share your message in an ethical and humane way. if you want to make a difference with your work. if you are just starting out, or if you have been in business for a while, but haven't really found the marketing activities that work for you. or also, if you are pivoting your business from business as usual to your life's work and want to radically change the way you get clients. find out more at humane dot marketing forward slash program. and finally, if you prefer one on one support from me, my humane business coaching could be just what you need, whether it's for your marketing, sales, general business building, or help with your big idea like writing a book. i'd love to share my brain and my heart with you together with my almost twenty years business experience and help you grow a sustainable business that is joyful and sustainable. if you love this podcast, wait until i show you my mama bear qualities as my one on one client. find out more at humane dot marketing forward slash coaching.

Speaker 1:  hi, friends. welcome back. today, i'm kicking off a little bonus series of short episodes that fit the p of partnership. as always, if you're familiar of the show, you already know that i'm organizing the conversations here around the seven p's of the humane marketing mandala. and if you're new here and don't know what kind of mandala i'm talking about, well, you can download your one page marketing plan with the seven p's of humane marketing that come in the form of a mandala. and you can do that at humane.marketing forward slash one page, the number one, and the word page. and this comes with seven email prompts to really help you reflect around these seven p's for your business. so, again, this conversation really fits the p of partnership. so you've heard carrie dobson before in episode 213. and if you haven't listened to that one yet, i highly recommend it. we talk about meaningful groups and whether having a group program is a good next step for you. you can go to humane.marketing/hm213 if you haven't heard that episode yet. so carrie and i hosted a collab workshop together and really felt a strong synergy forming, so we thought we'd follow that thread, especially when i told carrie i was ready to create a new program based on the selling like we're human book called how to sell in 2026 and beyond. because just as a refresher, carrie is a small group specialist who focuses on creating meaningful group programs. so we decided to partner on this new bro program that i will kick off with a beta group in november. and carrie will actually join the program as a co facilitator and infuse her long experience with making groups impactful and transformational. and so we thought it would be fun to share how we prepare this collaboration and build this program together live here on the podcast for you to take part of the behind the scenes. and, of course, if you're intrigued about selling in 2026 and beyond, it would be amazing to have you in this beta group. i'll be posting these conversations as bonus episodes, so make sure you're subscribed to the show to get notified about the following convos. not all of them will make it to social media. so, uh, it's best to be subscribed so you get notified. and of course, if you have any questions that you would like us to address, you can reach out to either me or carrie directly. so here's the recording of our first conversation.

Kerry:  and our goal for this session is just to actually talk about the collaboration as a whole and kind of go through the guiding questions, um, and just kind of explore the collaborative part of it. um, and then we can kind of talk about next steps a little bit more about where we go from here. does that sound good?

Sarah:  yeah. sounds great. and i think why not share this as well? i mean

Kerry:  totally. right? yeah. no. i it's it's more of, like, how to contextualize it or put it in. so, yeah, it's not a yeah. so we what i did was i shared with you kind of my what i call the five guiding questions for collaboration, which are just starting questions yeah. for people who are looking to collaborate. i created it specifically for people looking to collaborate around groups, but it works for any collaboration.

Sarah:  mhmm.

Kerry:  so i guess what my first kind of question to you is, as you're coming into this, kind of having considered those questions, how are you feeling? what's going on? where are you at?

Sarah:  yeah. i think it's just a nice idea to, you know, to have a conversation about, uh, the collaboration. and and and like we discussed when we talked last time, it's like, how do we make this a win win? that is, like, really important, um, for me so that we're both clear and that this can be very harmonious. you know, like the last thing i think we both want is some kind of injustice that we feel like, oh, this is not so just, you know, making it all clear at the beginning, i think is so key.

Kerry:  yeah. yeah. i that that's for me, too, is that idea of when we do anything, we're having thoughts, we're having feelings, and yet we're not always super conscious and super clear at the beginning of a collaboration. because i know for me, i'm i'm a very positive, like, oh, i can see i can see the potential in everything. and going through this helps me to really slow it down a little bit and capture that excitement and capture what's really important to me, but also allow space and time to kind of say, like, what what am i worried about? like, what what is it that's happening that maybe i'm not fully conscious of, but it gives me that opportunity to do it?

Sarah:  yes. yeah. very good.

Kerry:  um, i have to

Sarah:  say mature, you know, it's like, oh, we're like super mature human beings

Kerry:  here. totally. and and we're acknowledging that we're human in this. right? and that that as we do this, you know, like, i the the story i make up is, you know, this is your body of work. this is a really important offer that you want to bring to your community, and there's a preciousness around that. and so, you know, inviting someone in both from the creation standpoint, but also a potential opportunity to co lead, you know, there's there's risks with that or there's perceived risks. right? and so, um, just acknowledging that that's part of what happens, i think, is yeah. super important. exactly. mhmm. very cool. so do you wanna go through each of the questions and we can just kind of share our answers?

Sarah:  yeah. let's do that.

Kerry:  very cool. okay. so the first one is, what is the goal of this collaboration and the experience as a whole?

Sarah:  yeah. so what we why this came up is because, uh, i'm, uh, working on a new program called how to sell in 2026 and beyond. and just wanting to take this group experience to an even deeper level. and, you know, yes, enjoying each other's company already through the collab workshop and the the podcast and just realizing we have shared values. there's things that i can learn from you. and, um, so, yeah, that's how we entered this conversation about the the collaboration. and i see what i can win. so, yes, hopefully, an even deeper experience for the the participants, uh, also for myself and just, you know, having someone else co lead. i mean, that's the that's that's fun. i mean, at this stage in life, all i want is to do good work and also have some fun.

Kerry:  so, um, yeah. yeah. do good work. have some fun. i like that. i can sign up for that.

Sarah:  yeah. and then we also said, well, we want to use that as a case study for you, you know, so there that's the win for you. and and just have you experience that with a group and see how that can lead to an offering for for your own business. what can you learn? what went well? what didn't go well? and then the third thing i think is really that i feel like people come and look to me for new innovative ways of doing business. right? that's kind of the brand that i created, uh, because i keep telling them question all the assumptions, uh, and i tell them we're lacking role models of the new. and so they're looking to me, uh, for being that role model, and so this collaboration feels like walking my talk about the p of partnership and and just say telling them, look. this is what we're doing. we're experimenting because it's never been done before. and so now here here's how it went.

Kerry:  yeah. and i love that part. that part of it too is that, you know, we are we are walking into something that we think is a possibility. we see it as, you know, this moment in time is really calling forth that partnership piece and saying we don't have to do all of this alone, and there is a way that we can support each other and, you know, kind of do good things together. and so i, you know, i love the fact there's a part of me that's like, oh, crap. what's this gonna be like? but i love that experimentation part. and to experiment with someone else is also it's just a little safer. right? it's like, okay. you know, two heads are better than one and, you know, the ability to have the conversation as we're going through it. and i'm really looking forward to, you know, the openness that we've created around being able to share what's going on. so i'm really excited to kind of get the feedback from you as well as you're going through things because i know you're super aware of what's going on in your body and your mind and what's calling you forward. and so to get that insight, i'm really excited to kind of see what that is, and i know that there will be learning in that for me as well. great.

Sarah:  yeah.

Kerry:  um, i also just, um, i love the approach that you have in the book for selling like you're human. so i've i'm i don't know if i'm halfway, but i'm close to halfway through it. and as i was reading it, i was like, oh, this is this is needed right now. right? like this idea of, hey, hold on a second. it was so funny because i've been listening to a podcast on the way home my cameraman rory was. and he was talking about this, like you need to decrease the demand the supply in order to increase the price, like, all this. and then i read your book, and i'm like, no. that's not what we need to do. so it was so confirming for me to be like, yes. this is the you know, sarah's approach to selling like we're human is absolutely something that i believe in. and so to be able to have that be the center of this group is really exciting for me too.

Sarah:  i think, yeah, that's a big part of your offering as well to only engage in groups where you can stand behind because otherwise, honestly, i don't think it would work that part of the right?

Kerry:  yeah. it it especially the coleading, but even the other part. right? it's there is such a need for alignment because of the preciousness of people's groups and their expertise. so it's like it's a lot harder to to to hold that space with them if i wasn't believing in what they're saying or if it's, like, in direct contrast to, like, my values and that type of stuff. so a big part of my process is really having it clear what what my values are and how i like to work and then making sure that there's a good connection before we really dive into the work.

Sarah:  for sure.

Kerry:  yeah. very cool. okay. so then the next question is, what are you worried about?

Sarah:  yeah. i sat with this question a while. i looked like really thinking, well, what is it that i'm worried about? and, like, i have, you know, i've experienced a lot of partnerships, and, yes, there's a few of them that didn't work out, but that's not what worries me. um, i think the only thing i came up with is is, like, not having enough participants to get a group together. but then i was thinking, well, then we just postpone it. then we do it another time. so, yeah, there's not, like, specific worries that i i feel like, um, you know, this is not gonna she's gonna walk all over me or, like, any any kind of, like, oh, i should be worried about my content. none of that. so right. yeah. awesome. really good.

Kerry:  well, that feels good to hear. so that's that's great. the worry about the participants, i think, is always a worry, especially with groups because especially how we design them, you know, you need at least six people to really kind of have that engagement and have that connection. and so i think that's such an important worry. and part of what we'll do, i call it the plan to pivot. and what we do is before we even do prelaunch, we talk about what happens if we don't get the whatever that minimum number is and what is our plan for that so we can be working on that plan as we go. but we also create the plan of what if we get too many people because sometimes that happens too. and so having that plan in place ahead of time makes it so that some of the tension, there's still tension in launch, there always is, but some of that tension, it's like, well, we have a plan for that. we know what we're going to do. and there's some, you know, postponement is part of that, finding other people, you know, all sorts of stuff. so that'll be part of what we do too. um, i so for me, my worry is, you know, because this is still new and untested, then, you know, trying to put it together, i you know, i'm worried i'll they'll be it just won't make sense. like, at some point, we'll look up and be like, what were we you know, what was carrie thinking? and so that's part of it. right? when it's really new and fresh, i have this vision in my head. i have this imagined ideal of what this could be. but, you know, when you start putting it all together, like, maybe maybe it doesn't work.

Sarah:  right. yeah. yeah. yeah. but at the same time, i think it depends if we're attached to a certain outcome, then yes, maybe the worry is justified. but if we're looking at it both as a growth experience, then then, yeah, there there is no it didn't work. no. we both learned something, and yes.

Kerry:  that is the

Sarah:  the outcome. yeah. yeah.

Kerry:  yeah. and then the other worry i have is just, you know, you have so much experience leading a group. there's there's this voice in my, you know, the back of my mind being like, am i gonna even be helpful? she has so much experience doing this. and so that's just my own my own stuff coming up, but i just wanna acknowledge that that that that it's there because, you know, part of the work that i do is often with people who have done groups before. i find that people who have done them before kinda have a better understanding and appreciation for my perspective and what i talk about. um, but it's always a little bit there of, like, well, what if this person turns out they knew everything and didn't need me? so just putting that on the table.

Sarah:  yeah. it's good to put it on the table. but, um, again, for for me, it's it's a big part of this is is walking my talk around partnership. and just because of that, uh, you know, it's worth doing. and then and then, yes, i think the at at this stage of experience, it's all about the small little adjustments. it's not gonna shift the way i do groups completely, but it's those small little things that are gonna make a huge impact. and that's that's really what i'm excited real about.

Kerry:  yeah. and i i just love that you are aware of that. right? like, that that the the enhancements at this point or the up leveling or whatever the language is is they are those small tweaks. and there's these small things that make a huge difference. and so many times, those small differences aren't really recognized by the participants at like, they're not aware of it, and yet it changes their experience. yeah.

Sarah:  it's kinda like subconscious. yes.

Kerry:  yeah. exactly. yeah. um, so what would you say your strengths in this collaboration are?

Sarah:  well, as we just said, i have certain experience with, uh, with groups. i, um, have experience, uh, with the art of hosting. uh, so i really come from a place of holding space more than just teaching. and i think that's a big strength that i have developed over the last, uh, years. so i'm comfortable with uncertainty. i'm comfortable with people's uncertainty. and and that is a big part of being able to hold space for others because i've learned to hold space for myself and then now applied us to to hold space for others. so that's, um, yeah, i think that's one of the strengths that i bring. and then the content, you know, the this idea of selling like we're human. um, i i wrote a book about it. so it's interesting because up till now, i didn't feel like, oh, there's a program in me for this. so so this is a bit new for me, but i i feel very grounded and solid because of the timing. i just feel like now the time is right. and so, yeah, that's another strength that i bring. and then this openness to collaborate. like, i have an undefined ego in in human design, and there's nothing that i feel like i you know, it's like, oh, this is mine and, like, nothing like that. and so it just feels really good to to collaborate.

Kerry:  yeah. i love that. i love that so much. um, so for me, what i what i see is the the strength in this collaboration is just the level of expertise that we both bring to it. you know? there's there's so much here that we get to work with, and i'm i'm really excited about it that. and so this my strength in kind of acknowledging and, like, appreciating the expertise that we both have. um, i also think we have a really similar view of business. that's part of what our conversations, whether it was, you know, prerecording or recording or during the live session or before and after it. and so, um, i i love that we have that, you know, similar vision and similar values, and we also are really noticing that this is the time for it, as you said. like, there's something about the timing both of, like, this collaboration, but also this work and kind of doing it. and so being aware of that, um, and then obviously kind of that, the expertise that i bring around the small intimate groups, i think, is is something that's a little different that, you know, not tons of people are talking about, and yet that's where i really think the power of connection and the power of results really blossoms. and so that's that's part of what i'm bringing to the collaboration too.

Sarah:  yeah. exciting. yeah.

Kerry:  um, and then the next question is just, what are the obstacles you can foresee?

Sarah:  i don't see any obstacles. i if there's obstacles, we'll find ways. uh, yeah. so i don't not yeah.

Kerry:  yeah. the obstacles. the only obstacle that i kind of am just aware of is, like, a timing standpoint. like, are do we have enough time? which i i think we do, but that's always kind of a a piece of it. and then making sure that it doesn't take me too long to catch up on your area of expertise and how you like to run groups. i've been part of a couple of your things and reading the book, and so i'm just aware of, like, okay. i'm not worried about it. it's just that's i i'm coming into this not having spent, like, a year in your programs and knowing kinda how you do things.

Sarah:  right. yeah. yeah. i can i can understand that?

Kerry:  yeah. thank you. and then what was it that was appealing about this particular collaboration? we've kind of, you know, said some of that stuff too, but is there anything else that you wanna

Sarah:  i think what we're doing right now is is, like, actually building it live. and so then sharing the process of this collaboration, uh, you know, on our podcasts and with vulnerability and also sharing if, you know, if then things didn't work out and we didn't, we have to postpone or whatever whatever it was. so so not just leading up to it, but then also maybe after, do a recap of what went well and and and what you're now going to do, uh, you know, with that. is it gonna lead to an offer? so so, yeah, that that is exciting. and then again, uh, we said this before, but this idea of creating different ways of of being in business and and and seeing. yeah. how, of course, right now we have this agreement that there's, you know, we are just experimenting. so maybe we can also just share with transparency that there's no money involved in this collaboration. yeah. but in the end, that is the goal. right? still to somehow get paid. and so whether that develops into a paid partnership between the two of us, uh, or if it's just something that you will then use in in your business, um, yeah, we we can continue to share how how that evolves as well.

Kerry:  yeah. i love that part of it. it's like not just like the the the build up towards it, but kind of continually sharing as the process goes and as, you know, the launch happens and all that type of stuff about it. um, i i'm really excited too or the most appealing part is, um, you know, i really value your expertise and your perspective on business and selling and humane marketing, and i think it's so needed in this world right now. i know even just as a, like, a customer, like, i i'm so much more sensitive to, you know, what people are saying and how they're saying it and, you know, all that kind of stuff. so the more people in the world that have this more humane approach to it, i i find really appealing. and so to be able to play, you know, one part one tiny part of kind of having more people out there operating that way is really appealing to me. and then i also you know, we've we've talked about this too. like, there's something longer term that i feel like with you and i where there is this potential for other opportunities, other ways of supporting each other, whether that's, you know, in collaborations like this or or also just, like, being fans for each other and, like, you know, telling others about there's something about the longer term part of this that that i find really appealing to.

Sarah:  yeah. exactly. to to to develop on on that. and and i think it's this human element that we so often still you know, yes, we're all busy, but that's to me, it's always an excuse. so when i do say, you know, let's partner and let's do a collab workshop, i really mean the collaboration part. right? and i think you're one of the yeah. there's about a handful of people who who really understand that part. and for others, it's still kind of like, can i get some visibility out of this yeah?

Kerry:  piece? so

Sarah:  yeah.

Kerry:  yeah. right? and and the the invitation to collaboration doesn't always get met with collaboration. and that that's sometimes like, that's what we learn too. right? and so when you find people who are truly interested in collaboration, it's so nice because it really can be the win win win of, like, real longer term partnerships and collaborations. so, yeah, i love that part too. yay. so with all that said, um, i'm curious about kind of what what's outstanding for you? is there anything that you're kinda like, okay. i still this i still don't know or i'm holding space for the fact that we're trying to figure it out. but is there anything left unanswered or untalked about at this point for you?

Sarah:  i guess i can't picture it yet. um, i mean, you when you mentioned the the co hosting, you were kind of like, well, if there's breakout rooms, you know, there's gonna be a chance for me to be in another breakout room. yeah. i'm i'm just kinda, like, wondering, well, what happens during the time that i'm actually delivering content? what's not kind of what what what i know a little bit is during, for example, our colab workshop that we did. right? um, you were on that end. you were the expert, uh, uh, you know, teaching in quotation marks. and the way i have these collab workshops is, like, yes, you are the expert, but i can then come in with questions or lived experience. and so maybe the way i kinda see it is that you're gonna play that role. and because sometimes we have groups where the people are, i don't know, too shy or or not confident enough, and they're not actually asking the questions that kind of flowed around in the room, but nobody just dares to speak up. so i would love for you to play that role. right? um, so that's one way i could see it.

Kerry:  totally. so i think i think you've hit it completely like the nail on the head there. in terms of, um, i i read it once as an article where it's like the yoda role. so it's like that permission to kind of say the things that you're you you sense that are out there and happening and people are thinking, but they haven't quite either because, you know, it's new or it's like, oh, uncomfortable. so there's that part about it. where where i see it is kind of like um, as as you demonstrated, but it's like, oh, i'm there kind of representing the group essence sometimes where it's like, oh, that that didn't land or, like, that instruction didn't you know, there was questions about that or could you say that another way or that kind of thing. so it it's it's almost like i'm there as the representation of the essence of the group while you're sharing. and then, you know, there'll be other times where, you know, it might be that, hey, i'm leading them through because it's more of a reflection opportunity or celebration. and then you take on that role of you get to kind of represent the essence of the group. so there's a flow to it, and there's like a back and forth. and it it's really it's a different idea. so part of it is about really how do we, you know, share this at the beginning so people understand, well, who's this other person in the room and and why do we care? right? and so, you know, people because sometimes they're familiar with more of what i would call a producer role where it's the person who's checking in on the chat and making sure the technical stuff is there, which don't want that. no. right? like, it's like so people people are kind of you not even used to. they've seen that sometimes. and so it would just be about us kind of setting the stage in that first session in particular of, hey. this is, you know, this is carrie. this is why she's here. this is what we've done. you know? i think this helps us because people will hear it ahead of time and will be part of what people might have, you know, seen before they said yes to being part of the group. sure. but it really is just setting that context and just recognizing, like, okay. that's that's the role that i have in the room for most of it.

Sarah:  yeah. it's great.

Kerry:  very cool. okay. so in terms of kind of the process from here, the idea is is we're just gonna work through kind of the the typical steps that i take clients through when we're putting a group together, um, especially when it comes to a book. i i love doing groups that they're not the they're not the group they're not the book in group form. right? it's not that you take everything from the book and put it into a group. it's that you the group is like the the book is the foundation of the group, and it's you know, i've had everywhere from an author who we took one one slice of a book and made a whole group and certification from it. and then for others, it's it's a bit more of the group. right? and so what we'll be doing is going through the process of kind of saying, okay. what is this group about? and we start with, it's the vip process, but it's, you know, the vibe promise. what is the environment that we're promising we're gonna create? who's that ideal participant? who is this really for? and then what is the program promise? so what are they what are we promising they will accomplish and or experience in our time together? and so that's really where we start because once you have that vip, all your other decisions are super easy or they're at least impacted by the vip. so how long should the program be? what kind of activities should we include? you know, all that. the vip really helps us to inform the decisions we make around that. so the first session we do, that's where we'll start is is the vip process, and i always love to start that with a visualization. so, um, what i will do normally, i would give you that visualization, and i'll give it to you so you have it. but i think we do it live. i think we record it and just kinda see what happens. sounds very cool. yeah.

Sarah:  yeah. for sure.

Kerry:  awesome. well, i think that's it for this collaboration piece where we're we're figuring it out in the next steps, and we'll catch you next time as we jump into the vip part of the group design.

Sarah:  very good. see you next time.

Speaker 2:  thanks for listening. i hope you found this interesting. and, uh, yeah. i gave you a little sneak peek behind the scenes of how we're setting up this completely radically new different, uh, way of collaborating. and, um, we'll post again when we have another conversation. speak soon. be the change. don't forget.