Why Clients Keep Asking for Deliverables and What They Actually Need with Niecolas Biggi | Ep #861

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Why do clients keep asking for deliverables they don’t actually need? How to get them to focus on the outcome instead of the task list? Every agency owner has had clients show up asking for a website, SEO, or a million social posts, when what they actually need is something much deeper: more leads, more profit, more time back, and a business they’re proud of again.

Today’s featured guest broke down how he built an 11-year-old shop that delivers exactly that. We dig into why small businesses really hire agencies, why “selling SEO” is a trap, and how simplifying complex work can make your agency more profitable, more trusted, and a hell of a lot easier to run.

Niecolas Biggi, Founder of The Gorilla Agency a full-service Oregon digital agency that helps small businesses achieve their marketing goals. After applying to 31 agencies and hearing absolutely nothing back, he decided if no one would hire him, he’d simply build the place he wished existed. Eleven years later, his agency helps small businesses fall in love with their companies again by delivering marketing that feels personal, purposeful, and rooted in truth—not hype.

In this interview, we’ll discuss:

• Why clients don’t want SEO and what small business are really buying.

• How radical simplicity makes agencies more profitable.

• Walking away from big clients to make your agency stronger.

• How AI is changing client expectations.

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Sponsors and Resources

E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.

Why Clients Don’t Actually Want SEO (And What They’re Really Buying from Agencies)

Niecolas knows why his clients first reach out and he understands that, in reality, no one wants SEO. No one wants a website. No one wants a content calendar. What they want is for their phone to ring. They want predictable revenue and to stop feeling behind.

Basically, they want a business that finally looks and performs the way they imagined when they started it.

Hence, when Niecolas sits with a new client, he doesn’t take their request at face value. He keeps pulling the thread:

• Why do you want that?

• What are you really trying to fix?

• What’s happening behind the scenes that made you reach out today?

By the time he gets to the core problem, the tactical service almost never matches the thing they originally asked for. And that’s where trust is built—showing clients the real path to their desired outcome, not the task list they think they need.

As he puts it: Services are the toolkit. Outcomes are the reason you pick up the tools.

How Radical Simplicity Makes Agencies More Profitable and Improves Client Trust

During client meetings, Niecolas strives to strip away the complexity agencies tend to hide behind. Clients don’t want a masterclass in keyword density or a dissertation-length PDF they’ll never read. They want clarity.

To him, the best operators and the best salespeople think like teachers. Teachers take complicated ideas and make them accessible. They speak in a way a fifth grader can understand, because simplicity builds confidence, and confidence builds buy-in.

Inside his own agency, this shows up in the way he trains his team. No silos. No “not my job.” Everyone learns how every part of the system works, from content, SEO, design, dev, and strategy. That shared understanding creates respect, efficiency, and a culture where no one feels like they’re building in the dark.

Everyone in his team is taught that no one is above anyone and they’re all running the machine together. It’s a mindset that creates accountability among the team and helps the client understand exactly what they’re paying for.

Why Saying No to Big Clients Can Make Your Agency Stronger

Every agency owner has a moment where the “big” client forces them to rethink everything. For Niecolas, it was early on, when a client offered him more money than he even asked for ($10k a month) and three months later, he fired the client.

On paper, it was a dream account. In practice, it drained the team, misaligned with their process, and became the catalyst for rebuilding the agency from the ground up.

He spent two years refining every process—on-page and off-page SEO, content creation, design systems, communication workflows—all centered around one thing: making sure clients always know where their money is going and how it’s working.

Most agencies duct-tape their operations when things get messy instead of rebuilding the underlying, broken system. Niecolas rebuilt his foundation truly believing that all business owners need is for someone to create systems, truly listen to them, and help them articulate what they do for their clients.

Authenticity Converts (And Your Clients Need Your Help to Show It)

Niecolas’s wife unknowingly became the perfect case study for modern buyer behavior. Before choosing anything (restaurants, local services, events) she checks:

• Reviews

• Menus

• FAQs

• Photos

• Location

• Details

• User experience

• Credibility

That’s what most customers are doing, and the standard Niecolas sets for his clients. He wants to work with businesses that engage with clients and answer their questions, show their work with real photos, tell compelling stories, show proof, have a clean, intuitive website.

If it doesn’t pass what Niecolas calls “the wife test” — if a business doesn’t have clear answers, real photos, social proof, strong UX, and transparent information — it doesn’t ship.

And the same goes for exclusivity: Niecolas refuses to work with two companies in the same industry and service area. He wants to make one the best, not compete against himself for small wins.

How AI Is Changing Client Expectations and Why It Won’t Replace Agencies

Niecolas sees AI from both angles: the opportunity and the threat.

On one hand, AI makes clients think everything should be instant and $500. He’s already had clients send him AI-generated instructions like they’re firing off tasks to a robot. The danger isn’t AI itself but rather clients misunderstanding what real strategy, design, content, and user experience actually require.

But the other side is where he sees massive upside. AI removes the repetitive, thankless tasks that bog agencies down. It gives teams more room to think, solve, and create. It lets agencies deliver more value, not less, if they use it correctly.

AI doesn’t replace strategy and, more importantly, it doesn’t replace the human connection that actually closes deals.

Your network is your edge. Tools evolve but human trust, real expertise, and the ability to guide clients through complexity—that doesn’t.

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