Smart Agency Podcast: The #1 Digital Marketing Agency Podcast for Social Media, SEO, PPC & Creative Agencies

The popular agency podcast has been around since the beginning of 2014 and covers everything from starting a successful digital marketing agency to selling your marketing agency. What makes this podcast a must-listen is Swenk’s background as the founder and CEO of an agency for over a decade. Swenk brings his own experience to the table, in addition to the expertise of his guests. He covers topics that help growing agencies scale to the next level by providing the resources he wishes he had while growing his agency.

Why Doing More Is Holding Your Agency Back (And What to Do Instead) with Darby Copenhaver | Ep #892 03/29/2026

Why Doing More Is Holding Your Agency Back (And What to Do Instead) with Darby Copenhaver | Ep #892 In today’s rapidly evolving agency landscape, uncertainty has become the norm rather than the exception. From the overwhelming rise of AI to the paralysis that comes with too many decisions, agency owners are struggling to determine how to move forward with clarity. To stay competitive, founders must learn to adapt to constant change, identify true bottlenecks, evolve their roles, and simplify their systems to scale effectively. What You'll Learn ----------------- - Getting by in the age of uncertainty - Why revenue isn’t the only metric that matters - How growth requires transforming your role—not just scaling your business Key Takeaways ------------- The agency world isn’t slowing down—and neither should you. Moving forward means doing the right things, at the right time, in the right role. Progress, not perfection, is what drives real growth. In this rapidly evolving agency landscape, uncertainty has become the norm rather than the exception. From overwhelming decision paralysis caused by AI and doubts on how to move forward with clarity, owners need to adapt to constant change, identifying true bottlenecks, evolving their role, and simplifying systems to scale effectively. Today’s featured guest is the first point of contact for agency founders experiencing these very struggles. As someone very in tune with the issues founders face, he’ll talk about the steps they need to take to prevent becoming a bottleneck that gets in the way of their own growth and share why growth isn’t about doing more; it’s about becoming something different. Darby Copenhaver serves as our Agency Scale Specialist, working closely with agency founders to help them identify where they are in their growth journey and which steps they need to take next. As the first point of contact for many agencies entering Jason Swenk’s ecosystem, Darby plays a critical role in diagnosing challenges, building scaling strategies, and guiding founders through the complexities of growth. His day-to-day conversations with agency owners give Darby a unique vantage point into the current state of the industry, what’s working, what’s not, and where most founders get stuck. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Getting by in the age of uncertainty Stop chasing revenue as the only metric that matters Growth isn’t just about scaling, it requires transforming your role Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Herringbone Digital: If you’re thinking about exiting now, planning a few years ahead, or just want to understand your options, you should know about Herringbone Digital. They’re not a typical financial buyer—they’re operators who actually understand what it takes to build and scale an agency because they’ve done it themselves. Their approach is simple: invest in great founders, protect what’s already working, and help agencies scale faster. Go to herringbonedigital.com/swenk and start the conversation. The Age of Uncertainty (and Why It’s Not All Bad) Agency owners today are operating in an environment that’s changing faster than ever. From shifting client expectations to the explosion of AI tools, the pace of change is creating a unique kind of pressure: not fear of failure, but fear of making the wrong move. As Darby points out, most founders aren’t worried about losing their business; they’re worried about falling behind or investing in something that becomes obsolete in months. This uncertainty often leads to indecision. Founders remain frozen, like a deer in headlights, and in business, standing still is often the riskiest move of all. Agencies that hesitate too long risk getting overtaken by competitors who are willing to experiment, adapt, and move forward despite imperfect information. The lesson for founders is that you don’t need perfect clarity. You need momentum. Making decisions, testing, and iterating will always outperform waiting for certainty that never comes. The Hidden Weight of Growth As agencies grow, so does the burden of responsibility. What starts as excitement and curiosity can quickly turn into fear and pressure. Founders begin to worry about losing clients, disappointing teams, or making decisions that could jeopardize everything they’ve built. It’s possible to scale without losing that sense of curiosity and excitement. The difference lies in mindset. Founders who continue to operate with a “startup mentality” remain agile, open, and willing to experiment, even at scale. On the flip side, those who become overly cautious . They begin to overanalyze decisions, leading to slower execution and missed opportunities. Growth shouldn’t feel like carrying a heavier burden, it should feel like gaining leverage. Stop Chasing Revenue, Fix the Foundation One of the biggest misconceptions in the agency world is the obsession with hitting revenue milestones, especially the coveted “seven figures.” While reaching $1M is often celebrated, Jason and Darby agree revenue alone is a poor indicator of success. If an agency hits $1M but the founder is still doing everything (sales, delivery, operations) it’s not a win. It’s a trap. Growth without the right foundation only amplifies existing problems, leading to burnout and instability. Instead, founders should focus on metrics that actually matter: profitability, time freedom, and operational efficiency. When those are in place, revenue growth becomes a natural byproduct. Building a scalable agency isn’t about stacking more clients but about building systems that support sustainable growth. Founder Evolution From Operator to Owner It’s been a prevalent idea this year but agency owners should understand that growth isn’t just about scaling the business. It’s about . Darby explains that this is less about “growth” and more about “evolution,” where each stage requires you to become something fundamentally different. This progression can be outlined as follows: Operator – You do everything. Manager – You delegate tasks but still make all decisions. Architect – You . CEO – You set vision, coach leaders, and represent the brand. Owner – The business runs without you. Many founders get stuck in the operator or manager stage because they don’t know what the next level looks like. Without that clarity, they default to guesswork, making changes that don’t move the needle. The breakthrough comes from understanding your current role and intentionally evolving into the next. This requires letting go of old responsibilities and stepping into new ones, even when it feels uncomfortable. AI Is a Tool, Not a Strategy AI is one of the biggest sources of both excitement and overwhelm for agencies right now. While many teams are experimenting with tools like custom GPTs, most are only scratching the surface, using AI for basic tasks like brainstorming or content generation. The real opportunity lies in going deeper. AI should enhance your capabilities, not replace them. Agencies that use AI strategically can create “superpowers” for their teams by automating repetitive tasks, improving efficiency, and freeing up time for high-impact work. However, there’s also a growing issue of AI fatigue. With new tools emerging constantly, it’s easy to feel overwhelmed and unsure where to focus. The solution isn’t to chase every new tool but to build a solid foundation for how AI fits into your workflows and operations. Stop Hiring for Problems You Don’t Understand A common mistake agency founders make is trying to “solve everything” by hiring a senior leader—like a Director of Operations or COO—too early. While it might seem like the logical next step, it often leads to frustration and wasted resources. The problem is simple: you can’t hire someone to solve problems you don’t fully understand. Without clear systems, processes, and direction, even the most experienced hire will struggle to make an impact. Instead, start smaller. Audit your time, identify low-value tasks, and begin delegating those first. Freeing up your time allows you to focus on higher-level thinking, eventually leading to the clarity needed to make smarter hires. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40635180

AI Is Reshaping Agencies. Staying Average Will Kill Yours with Brian Hansen | Ep #891 03/25/2026

AI Is Reshaping Agencies. Staying Average Will Kill Yours with Brian Hansen | Ep #891 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Artificial intelligence is rapidly changing how agencies operate. But the real shift isn’t just about tools. It’s about structure, mindset, and leadership. Today’s featured guest has taken the time to explore how agencies are adapting to AI, why many agencies will struggle to survive the shift, and how founders must evolve alongside the technology. From building AI-native workflows to maintaining authentic brand connections in an automated world, the conversation highlights a central theme: agencies that stay curious and adaptable will win. Those that cling to “the way we’ve always done it” won’t. Brian Hansen is the founder of , a marketing agency focused exclusively on helping law firms grow their revenue through targeted marketing strategies. Unlike generalist agencies, Rocket Pilots operates within a single vertical, allowing the team to develop deep industry expertise and deliver highly specialized services. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why it’s a good idea to be fully AI-native. The cultural shift your agency should be making. Why average agencies will struggle the most with the rise of AI. Why the future belongs to curious founders. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Most agencies are losing 15–30% of their profit every year: lack of time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those “quick” client requests that never get billed. Toggl has created a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. Starting Out Without a Niche in Mind Brian didn’t start his agency with a legal niche in mind. In fact, he openly admits he ended up finding his current niche by doing it ‘the hard way’. Early on, his agency worked with multiple industries and offered a wide range of services. But over time, he realized that focusing on what the agency did best, and who they served best, produced better results for both clients and the agency itself. That insight led to a clear decision: narrow the offering, specialize in the legal space, and deliver exceptional outcomes. Today, he is focused on the next evolution of agency operations: building an AI-native agency environment that allows teams to work faster, smarter, and more efficiently. Why Agencies Must Become “AI Native” Right now, Brian is focused on his agency becoming fully AI native, which goes far tools. Instead, becoming AI native means designing your agency’s internal systems and workflows so that AI can effectively operate within them. This includes something as foundational as how documents are stored and organized. If agencies want to use custom AI models or assistants to help with strategy, writing, research, and execution, those systems need structured data and clear documentation. Without that foundation, AI cannot function as a true multiplier. Because of this, Brian’s team is currently restructuring their internal systems from file organization to documentation so AI tools can access the context needed to support their work. When done properly, AI doesn’t just speed up tasks; it becomes an operational layer that enhances every role in the company. In other words, agencies shouldn’t simply “use AI.” They should build their operations around it. The Cultural Shift Agencies Need to Make Technology alone won’t determine . Culture will. Founders are often the first people inside an agency to explore new technologies. They test tools, build systems, and experiment with new capabilities long before the rest of the team adopts them. But that dynamic can create a dangerous knowledge gap if the rest of the organization doesn’t follow. Brian believes agencies must actively create a culture where employees are encouraged and even required to experiment with AI tools and share what they learn. Teams should be discussing new workflows, sharing AI “wins,” and constantly asking how the technology can improve their work. Employees who treat AI as a partner, rather than a threat, will become dramatically more valuable inside modern agencies. Instead of replacing talent, AI often amplifies it by allowing team members to operate like high-level project managers directing intelligent systems. Agencies that embrace this cultural shift will gain a major competitive advantage. Why Average Agencies Will Struggle At the start of the internet era, traditional agencies that dismissed how this new development would change agencies forever were the ones to set themselves up for failure and many of them disappeared within a few years. Likewise, the agencies most at risk in the coming years are the ones stuck in the middle. They aren’t exceptional specialists. They aren’t deeply innovative. And they rely on the same processes they’ve used for years. History has shown what happens to businesses that ignore major technological shifts and Jason believes AI represents a similar moment. Agencies that remain average, offering undifferentiated services without leveraging new technology, will find themselves squeezed by faster, more efficient competitors. At the same time, the agencies that thrive will be those that use AI to enhance strategy, creativity, and efficiency rather than simply automate low-level tasks. The future won’t belong to agencies that resist change. It will belong to those that adapt faster than the market expects. Authentic Branding Still Matters in an AI World Despite the rise of automation, and maybe even because of it, authentic human connection remains essential and is becoming even more valuable. As AI-generated content becomes more common, . Automated comments, generic posts, and AI-generated personas rarely create real engagement or trust. That’s why personal branding and authentic communication will continue to matter. Agencies that build real relationships with their audience through thoughtful content, real insights, and genuine expertise will stand out in a crowded digital environment. While AI can accelerate content production, it cannot replace credibility, experience, or trust. Those elements must still come from real people. The Role Evolution Every Agency Founder Must Make Beyond technology, Jason has seen that agency growth ultimately depends on the evolution of the founder’s role. Most agency founders begin by doing everything themselves. They sell, deliver work, manage clients, and handle operations. Over time, they may become managers overseeing teams. But long-term agency growth requires another transition from manager to architect and CEO. At that level, the founder is no longer executing daily work. Instead, they design the systems, structure, and strategy that allow the organization to scale independently. Eventually, the ultimate goal is reaching the role of true owner, where the agency can operate successfully without constant founder involvement. AI tools can accelerate this evolution by automating operational complexity, but the mindset shift still has to come from the founder. Technology alone doesn’t create scale. Leadership does. The Future Belongs to Curious Founders If there’s one trait that will define successful agency leaders in the coming decade, it’s curiosity. The AI landscape changes almost weekly. New tools, new capabilities, and new opportunities appear constantly. Founders who stay curious, experimenting, testing, and learning, will continue to find ways to adapt. Those who assume they already know enough will fall behind. For agency owners, the challenge isn’t simply adopting AI tools. It’s building organizations that evolve alongside the technology. The agencies that do that won’t just survive the AI era. They’ll lead it. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps yh opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40532835

Why Agencies Lose Clients: Confusing Reports and Outdated Operating Models with Nate Jenson | Ep #890 03/22/2026

Why Agencies Lose Clients: Confusing Reports and Outdated Operating Models with Nate Jenson | Ep #890 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Do you assume a very complicated report will guarantee clients appreciate all the work you’re putting into generating leads for their business? It may end up having the opposite effect. Many agency founders assume their biggest challenge is generating leads or improving campaign performance. However, a deeper issue becomes clear in today’s conversation: most agencies end up losing clients due to unclear values and outdated operating models. Our featured guest will unpack how agencies and financial service firms face strikingly similar structural problems. From vague service promises to bloated processes and inefficient teams, both industries are being forced to evolve, especially as automation and AI raise expectations around speed, clarity, and decision-making. Nathan Jenson is a former agency owner, current CFO of Badass Bookkeeping, and CEO of , a service that connects with QuickBooks to show you what’s really going on in your business. He’s made it his mission to connect business owners to their numbers so they can make smarter decisions. Nathan has appeared on the podcast before, and since his last visit, he rebuilt his business model using a very different philosophy, one centered around automation, operational simplicity, and minimizing dependency on large teams. Having sold a previous company that relied heavily on people and manual processes, he focused on building a scalable financial services business that runs on systems, not headcount. His experience working closely with agency owners gives him a unique perspective on where agencies get stuck and why many founders unknowingly create the very bottlenecks holding their companies back. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Are you earning clients’ trust? How complex reports just confuse clients How automation is reshaping expectations Why headcount is not a measure of success Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Herringbone Digital: If you’re thinking about exiting now, planning a few years ahead, or just want to understand your options, you should know about Herringbone Digital. They’re not a typical financial buyer. They’re operators who actually understand what it takes to build and scale an agency because they’ve done it themselves. Their approach is simple: invest in great founders, protect what’s already working, and help agencies scale faster. Go to and start the conversation. Why Clients Lose Trust in Agencies Many agencies assume clients judge them primarily on campaign performance, but the reality is more nuanced. Often, clients cannot tell whether the agency is succeeding or failing because it fails to clearly communicate what success should look like in the first place. In his experience as a client, despite spending significant money on paid advertising, social campaigns, and LinkedIn outreach over several years, Nate found he was getting almost no meaningful leads. As a client, the experience felt like throwing money into a black box. When this is the case, the disconnect typically originates from one of two traps: Agencies fail to deliver meaningful results Or they fail to In both cases, the outcome is identical: clients feel uncertain about the value they are receiving. This communication gap becomes even more dangerous in an era where AI tools can produce reports, insights, and dashboards instantly. If agencies continue delivering confusing reports full of jargon or technical metrics, clients will increasingly turn to tools that can interpret their data more clearly. Simply put: clarity is now a competitive advantage. Are You Proving Your Expertise or Just Confusing Clients? Nate has stories from practicing in accounting agencies that perfectly mirror what happens in marketing agencies. A business owner once hired him to replace a fractional CFO who had been sending him financial reports packed with complicated spreadsheets, amortization schedules, and technical accounting data. The problem wasn’t that the reports were wrong. The client just had no idea what any of it meant. From the client’s perspective, the reports were useless. This behavior exists across many professional services industries. Experts often overcomplicate reporting to demonstrate expertise, but this usually has the opposite effect. When a client receives pages of technical information they cannot interpret, they assume one of two things: Either the service provider is hiding something. Or the service provider doesn’t understand the client’s real priorities. What clients actually want is simple: Are we improving? Are we losing money somewhere? What should we do next? If , they risk looking indistinguishable from competitors who truly underperform. Automation Is Reshaping Operational Expectations Nate rebuilt his current company around one principle: automate everything that doesn’t require human judgment. In accounting, that means allowing software to categorize transactions, generate reports, and monitor financial performance automatically. Tools like QuickBooks already provide rule-based automation that eliminates much of the manual work bookkeepers traditionally perform. By implementing these systems, Nate reduced massive amounts of operational labor. For example, many of his financial analyses once required one to two hours of preparation per client each month. Now, automated systems can generate those reports instantly, allowing him to spend his time interpreting insights rather than compiling data. This shift mirrors what is happening inside agencies. Marketing platforms, analytics tools, and AI assistants increasingly handle tasks that once required teams of specialists. Campaign reporting, performance insights, and forecasting can now be generated in seconds. This means that the agencies with the , not with the biggest team, as it used to be. In fact, automation allows firms to grow without proportional increases in staffing, which dramatically improves profitability and scalability. Why Headcount Is a Dangerous Measure of Success Like many founders, Nate used to think that growth meant hiring more people and building a larger organization. Eventually, his company reached around ten employees, and the reality of management set in. Instead of freedom, he experienced something different: constant oversight, quality control issues, and the stress of managing people who struggled to perform consistently. Some employees were exceptional and could operate independently. Others required constant supervision. The experience revealed a harsh truth about scaling service businesses: more employees do not automatically mean more leverage. In fact, hiring the wrong people often creates new bottlenecks for the founder. When founders must constantly review work, answer questions, and correct mistakes, they become even more central to the business than before. That realization pushed Nate to design his new company focusing first on systems and automation before expanding the team. The Evolution of the Founder’s Role When it comes to owners who end up reviewing everyone’s work and involved in every decision, we all know this happens too much in the industry. This is basically a failure in evolving the founder’s role as the agencies grow: Operator – Doing everything yourself Manager – Hiring and supervising people Architect – Designing systems, processes, and structure CEO – Leading strategy and company direction Owner – The business runs independently True scalability begins when founders transition into the architect role, designing systems that allow the company to operate consistently without their constant involvement. The Structural Next Step for Agency Founders The agencies that struggle over the next few years won’t fail because of marketing tactics. They’ll fail because their operating models never evolved. Clients expect clearer outcomes. AI is compressing timelines for analysis and reporting. Automation is reducing the need for manual work. The founders who win will be the ones who stop trying to scale effort and start designing leverage. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps yh opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40532200

What Do Private Equity Firms Look for When Buying an Agency? With Ben Gaddis | Ep #889 03/18/2026

What Do Private Equity Firms Look for When Buying an Agency? With Ben Gaddis | Ep #889 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Most agency owners say they want to sell someday… but they’re building something completely unsellable. The mistake? Not only a lack of a clear vision for the future of their agency, but also a lack of understanding of what they’ll need to build a sellable agency. If you’re an agency owner planning to sell one day, do you understand what buyers are usually looking for? Do you know which type of buyer you’re hoping to attract? Today’s featured guest understands that most agencies are acquired by private equity and built the private equity partner he felt was missing in the space. He’ll talk about what actually drives valuation, what kills deals, and how to build an agency that buyers want to compete for. is the former founder of T3, a digital agency he sold to private equity in 2019. After going through multiple acquisitions himself, he now runs an operator-led private equity firm focused exclusively on tech-enabled service and agency businesses. As a former owner who’s been on both sides of the table, he knows exactly what buyers are thinking. In this episode, we’ll discuss: What are private equity companies looking for in agencies? Recurring revenue vs. retention What would actually increase your agency’s valuation? If the goal is talent, should you consider an acquisition? Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Most agencies are losing 15–30% of their profit every year: lack of time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those “quick” client requests that never get billed. Toggl has created a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. What Private Equity Actually Looks For (It’s Not What You Think) The reality is that most private equity companies are looking to to slam them together and eventually sell them for more. Based on this, agency owners have an idea of what these buyers want and mostly focus on revenue or EBITDA. According to Ben, however, buyers are looking at a few core things first: Client concentration Recurring or predictable revenue Net revenue retention Founder dependency (aka key-person risk) Clear vision and differentiation Let’s start with client concentration. A lot of owners panic if one client makes up 20% of revenue. Some PE firms get nervous at 10%. But Ben brings nuance here. If you’ve landed and retained a $2–3M client for years, that’s proof you can serve at a high level. That’s powerful. The issue isn’t just one big client. It’s when your top 3–5 clients make up 50–60% of revenue. That’s where it gets risky. If you’re in that position, you already feel it. One bad email. One procurement shift. One budget freeze. And your stomach drops. That’s not a valuation problem. That’s a freedom problem. Recurring Revenue vs. Retention (The Smarter Metric) Everyone argues about contracts. “Should I lock clients into 12 months?” “Should we go month-to-month?” Ben argues that the real metric is net revenue retention. If you’re at 90–100%+ retention, buyers don’t care as much about contract length. He shared a case where they bought a company with almost zero recurring revenue but 115% net revenue retention. Clients kept buying more. The business was healthy. The packaging just needed to change. This is huge for agencies stuck in custom project hell. Sometimes it’s not your service. It’s how you position and sell it. Are you framing projects as standalone deliverables or as phases in a longer journey? If you’re stuck working in the business and scrambling for the next sale, this is where to look first. Integration > Financial Engineering There are two types of buyers: Financial engineers smashing agencies together to increase multiples Operator-led firms building real integrated offerings Ben sees a lot of “fake integration.” Agencies get acquired, but nothing truly connects. No shared systems. No real cross-sell. No operational synergy. Sophisticated buyers see through that immediately. Additive capability. Does one service naturally lead to another? Does it solve a deeper problem for the same buyer? Does it expand wallet share within the same account? If you’re thinking about acquisitions, don’t buy revenue. Buy strategic fit. Otherwise, you’re just running two companies under one logo. Growing Through Acquisition (And When Not To) A lot of 7-figure agency owners hit a wall where they can’t hire fast enough and start to feel overwhelmed. The team depends on them. Growth feels capped. So they think: “” and figure they should start small, as it seems easier than going through a big acquisition. Buying a bigger company or doing a merger of equals is certainly complicated in terms of defining who’s in charge and which brand should remain. So, it should be a very complementary offer with a clear leader for it to make sense. This would be much clearer when buying a smaller business. However, here’s the thing: Small acquisitions are just as hard as big ones. The legal, the integration, the emotional complexity, it’s all real. If you’ve never done one before, the odds of it going smoothly are low. If the goal is talent… why not build offshore first? With AI and real-time translation tools, the global talent pool is radically more accessible than it was even five years ago. A lot of agency owners avoid offshore because it failed before. But the game has changed. If your bottleneck is hiring, you might not need to buy an agency. You might need to rethink your talent strategy. How to Prepare for a Sale (Even If You’re Not Selling) This is where most deals fall apart, and Ben believes it’s important for owners to try to cover any gaps in knowledge. Try to learn as much as you can about the process and the buyer to better understand their expectations. And if you still have questions, then don’t hesitate to ask! Some aspects that owners may not understand and that : Working capital expectations Accrual vs. cash accounting Quality of Earnings (QofE) reviews Data cleanliness Revenue tagging Furthermore, Ben recommends something most owners never do: Run your own QofE before going to market. Know your skeletons. Track secured revenue. At the start of each year, how much revenue is already locked in? If that number consistently grows year over year, that’s powerful. Buyers will ask about revenue by capability, revenue by sales rep, revenue by region, and client concentration by top 3/5/10. If your data is messy, you lose leverage. And if you’re thinking, “I’ll figure that out when I’m ready to sell,” you’re already behind. Vision Is the Real Multiplier Right now, Ben is seeing a lack of vision + execution alignment. AI is reshaping agency models in real time. Entire categories of services didn’t exist a few months ago. The agencies that win won’t just be efficient. They’ll have a tight, clear, communicated vision. Agencies won’t scale just because of a tactic. They’ll scale because the vision was clear enough that the team could make decisions without the owner. If your team can’t make decisions without you, that’s not a people problem. That’s a vision problem. And that’s also why you’re still stuck in fulfillment. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40177435

Burned Out Agency Owner to AI Architect: The Real Shift Founders Must Make With Austin Armstrong | Ep #888 03/15/2026

Burned Out Agency Owner to AI Architect: The Real Shift Founders Must Make With Austin Armstrong | Ep #888 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? How are you protecting yourself from the real risk of owner burnout? Agency owners often burn out because they built a business that depends entirely on them. Today’s featured guest is a former agency owner turned AI SaaS founder. He'll unpack what really caused his agency collapse, what he learned from it, and how he rebuilt from a completely different role. Austin Armstrong is the owner of , a tool for social media marketing that helps users create their very own realistic digital clone to personalize their marketing efforts, allowing them to forge a deeper connection with their audience. Austin spent over a decade in the agency world, working his way up from intern to running an agency before launching his own. For a while, it worked, until the cracks appeared. His agency was built around organic marketing and heavily centered on his personal brand. High months meant hiring fast. Low months meant wondering if payroll would clear. When a few large clients (that accounted for about 60% of monthly revenue) churned, the instability became unbearable. So Austin made his tech pivot and moved to starting Syllaby, which also came with a role pivot. More recently, he just released his first book and is the co-founder of the upcoming conference. In this episode, we’ll discuss: From agency failure to early AI adopter Why the founder bottleneck is emotional The founder evolution model AI exposes weaknesses Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Making the Decision to Be an Early Adopter When he started Syllaby, Austin could already see the writing on the wall with AI. He was already not happy navigating the agency world, so the question was, “Do I want to place a bet as an early adopter of this technology? Potentially cannibalizing my own agency?” He spoke with several clients and business owners and came to the conclusion that most people hire an agency because they know they need to create content to be relevant, but didn’t know how to pick the right topics, and in many cases didn’t want to be on camera. They needed help staying consistent and accountable. Some of them don’t even have the money to hire an agency, but still have a message and an expertise to share. So Austin started to look for ways to automate those processes using AI. The Founder Bottleneck Is Emotional Before It’s Operational The emotional weight of the unraveling of Austin’s agency was real. Nightmares about client complaints. Constant vigilance. Inability to disconnect. Eventually, he decided to make a bet on AI and launched Syllaby, an AI-powered content platform designed to automate much of what agencies manually execute, from topic discovery to scripting to publishing. Now, looking back, he sees . It wasn’t bad marketing or lack of demand. It was structural dependency. The agency relied on: His personal brand His client relationships His decision-making His emotional capacity When large clients churned, revenue collapsed because concentration risk hadn’t been designed out of the model. When delivery required nuance, he couldn’t step away because “he stirred the pot.” This is the Operator trap. The Founder Evolution Model Most founders believe they own an agency. In reality, the agency owns them. What is supposed to happen as your agency evolves is that your role in it evolves as follows: Operator → Manager → Architect → CEO → Owner At the Operator level: . Delivery depends on you. Escalations go to you. Pricing goes through you. And when you focus on one area, another suffers. Systems Create Freedom But They Also Create Identity Shifts As the owner, being needed feels good and letting go feels disorienting. Austin acknowledged this tension. In his agency, clients wanted him. Even with SOPs, some work required nuance. Some of it was ego. Some of it was positioning. Some of it was hiring the wrong people in the wrong seats. Having learned his lesson, things look very different in his SaaS company, where he can rely on strong partners, defined ownership, AI-supported workflows, and clear decision rights. Now he can disappear for two weeks, go skiing with family, speak at events, and the business doesn’t break. AI Exposes Weakness All over the industry owners agree that AI isn’t replacing strong agencies. It’s exposing weak ones. At Syllaby, Austin has integrated AI so much is hard to think where he DOESN’T use it. He automates what many agencies sell manually: SEO-based topic discovery Script generation Video creation Scheduling and publishing For smaller businesses, this lowers the barrier to entry. For agencies, it creates leverage. Which tool are owners using? This varies from time to time. What you should be doing is testing them all out to see which ones work better for you, as well as creating a brief with all the information you’ll need in case you decide to migrate to a different tool. Jason calls this his “AI Operating Brief”, a master document loaded with: Company positioning Customer data Success stories CRM insights Transcripts Strategic principles Once embedded into AI tools, it eliminates repetitive context-setting and removes founder bottlenecks. Austin does something similar with what he calls his “Austin Codex”, years of content, frameworks, and intellectual property housed inside AI models. The result is institutional memory without constant founder involvement. Time Audits Reveal the Hidden Ceiling Austin is a big fan of the full-time audit exercise: For one to two weeks, document: Every task Start and end times Whether it’s mandatory or optional Your enjoyment level The dollar value of your time The outcome is uncomfortable. Once you’re done, you’ll see which $10 tasks eating $1,000/hour time, the emotional drain disguised as “important work”, and the distractions masquerading as urgency. He outsourced email management, calendar coordination, travel booking — all consolidated into a daily executive summary delivered where he actually spends time. Not because he can’t do it, but because he shouldn’t. The bigger lesson: you don’t scale an agency… . Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40311855

Why Project-Based Agencies Feel Profitable But Aren’t Sustainable with Michael Boychuk | Ep #887 03/11/2026

Why Project-Based Agencies Feel Profitable But Aren’t Sustainable with Michael Boychuk | Ep #887 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Are you winning exciting projects but still feeling exhausted at the end of every quarter? Does your agency look successful from the outside, yet feel fragile or chaotic behind the scenes? For most agency owners, the real struggle isn’t creativity. It’s sustainability. The real challenge begins after the win, when you have to deliver consistently, protect your margins, manage your team, and somehow still have the energy to lead. Michael Boychuk is the founder and creative director of , a creative agency that deals in real emotion and embrace the hard truth, understanding that brands that connect emotionally see 50% higher revenue growth. He’ll talk about scaling creatively led agencies, navigating mergers, embracing productive conflict, and integrating AI without sacrificing emotional storytelling. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why creative isn’t enough The merger process Embracing tension & clear swim lanes in partnerships Set audacious goals or stay average Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Most agencies are losing 15–30% of their profit every year: lack of time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those “quick” client requests that never get billed. Toggl has created a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. Leaving Amazon to Start a Creative Agency Michael’s career began in small, strategy-led creative shops before moving to Leo Burnett in Chicago. Eventually, he crossed to the client side as Global Executive Creative Director at Amazon, working closely on major brand initiatives. While many creatives were moving in-house at the time, Michael saw the gap in how external agencies worked with internal creative teams. Even the most respected agencies struggled to collaborate effectively with in-house counterparts. So he made the decision to leave Amazon to start his own agency. He co-founded Little Hands of Stone (later merging to become DNA&Stone), building a nimble, creatively driven agency with operational discipline at its core. The goal wasn’t to be another agency in a crowded market. It was to build one that worked differently. The Project Roller Coaster: Why Great Creative Isn’t Enough In the early years, Michael and his partner excelled at landing high-impact project work. The agency would scale up quickly, execute powerful campaigns, and then scale back down. The upside: Strong margins. The downside: Revenue volatility. Some months were record-breaking. Others were terrifying. This feast-or-famine model made it difficult to invest in long-term infrastructure, particularly account management and relationship-building functions that sustain retainer revenue. As Michael put it, scaling into projects and rapidly reducing afterward may be profitable, but it’s not easily sustainable. That realization set the stage for a major shift. The Merger: Combining Creative Firepower with Account Stability After years of competing against DNA, Michael’s firm began merger conversations. His six-year-old, creatively led shop was volatile but high-impact. DNA, a 26-year-old agency, had stable retainer revenue and strong account leadership. They were opposites and that made them perfect. The nine-month merger process was . Michael describes it as “drawing up a marriage certificate.” But strategically, it functioned like a time machine, instantly solving growth limitations both firms faced independently. However, merging on paper is easy. Operationalizing it while “building the plane during barrel rolls” is the real challenge. One year later, they’re still refining the model and balancing creative ambition with financial discipline. Account Management vs. Creative Leadership One of the biggest lessons Michael learned post-merger is the value of strong account leadership. Creative leaders tend to chase the next exciting idea. Account leaders think in terms of long-term relationships, financial discipline, and sustainable growth. You need both. Rather than avoid tension, the four partners embrace it. Michael believes healthy conflict is essential. If there’s no disagreement, you’re probably not addressing the real issues. But the key is . They operate with: Clear swim lanes (each partner has decision authority in their domain) Open debate before decisions 100% alignment after decisions are made No back-channel dissent or lingering resentment. Only unified execution. Embrace the AI Wave But Protect the Emotion Michael doesn’t sugarcoat his views on AI. If agencies aren’t actively integrating AI into workflows and developing proprietary approaches, they risk irrelevance. But he also warns against overcorrection. Yes, AI improves efficiency and enhances pre-visualization and brainstorming. Yes, it can increase margins. But creative agencies aren’t data-processing factories. They’re emotional engines. In his view, the industry is currently drowning in data while starving for emotional resonance. AI can create competent output but it often carries a detectable “stink,” a subtle lack of human nuance. He chooses to use AI to: enable better creative. improve efficiency. remove bottlenecks. However, it should not be used to replace emotional storytelling. Because and no algorithm can replicate lived experience. Set Audacious Goals or Stay Average The biggest lesson Michael took from his time at Amazon working directly with Jeff Bezos was to set ambitious goals. After campaigning to have an Amazon ad during the Super Bowl, he got Jeff’s attention and set out to create a top-five Super Bowl ad. But during development, director Wayne McClammy challenged him: “Why aim for top five? Why not number one?” That shift in ambition changed everything. Every decision became filtered through one question: Is this the move that gets us to #1? The resulting product was the “Alexa Loses Her Voice” Super Bowl spot featuring Cardi B and Anthony Hopkins. And, yes, it was ranked the number one Super Bowl ad that year. The lesson for him was about standards. If your goals don’t make you nervous, they’re not big enough. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40295810

How Forward-Thinking Agencies Win with SEO, GEO, & LLMs with Terry Zelen | Ep #886 03/08/2026

How Forward-Thinking Agencies Win with SEO, GEO, & LLMs with Terry Zelen | Ep #886 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? AI is either the end of agencies… or the biggest opportunity we’ve had since the internet. Most agree it’s the second one. Agencies that are winning right now are combining SEO, GEO, AEO, and LLM optimization so they show up everywhere decisions are being made. They’re using AI to increase leverage, not replace thinking. And they’re restructuring their teams around strategy, insight, and proprietary data instead of repetitive task work. Today’s featured guest will discuss why SEO isn’t dead (it just grew up), the biggest mistake agencies are making with AI, how to 10x output without adding headcount, and why your unique data is the unfair advantage that separates you from every other agency prompting ChatGPT and hoping for magic. Terry Zelen is the founder of, a 35-year-old agency that pivoted aggressively into AI over the last three years. He’s helping clients win visibility across both search engines and large language models (LLMs) and even building AI tools internally to reduce hallucinations and improve accuracy. Terry has a degree in marine biology, so marketing wasn’t the master plan. After college, he tried breaking into the creative world with zero portfolio and got laughed out of the room; until one person gave him a shot. He worked for free, proved himself, connected with a freelance rep, and slowly worked his way up through the agency ranks. He eventually transitioned from freelancer to agency owner by acquiring his own accounts and building relationships locally in Tampa. Fast forward three decades and now he’s helping clients navigate AI, LLM visibility, and what modern SEO really looks like. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why SEO is more complicated now, but agencies willing to adapt can still win How LLM visibility will win you business AI: The greatest leverage small businesses have ever had Building an AI consensus engine Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. SEO Is Not Dead. It’s Just Way More Complicated There’s a lot of noise right now around “SEO is dead” or “zero-click internet.” But that’s an oversimplification. SEO isn’t going away. It’s evolving. Today, it’s not just SEO. It’s: GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) AEO () Local SEO EEAT (Experience, Expertise, Authority, Trust) Search intent In other words, visibility is the game. Not just ranking in Google, but showing up in LLMs like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Perplexity. Terry points out that while snippets and AI-generated summaries are increasing, people still want to verify sources. They’re not buying a couch because an LLM told them it’s the best. They’ll still visit sites, compare options, and validate credibility. Backlinks, structured content, schema, quality. It all still matters. What’s different is that now you’re playing the game with Google and the LLMs. How LLM Visibility Actually Wins Business This isn’t theoretical. Terry shared a story of a client who builds modular classroom buildings. A school district searched for “best mobile building producer in Florida” and the client showed up in a snippet. That visibility led directly to a new contract. So you’re no longer optimizing just for rankings. You’re optimizing to be the referenced authority when AI generates an answer. That means you better have structured content, clear positioning, backlinks, authority signals, and presence on surfaces LLMs scrape (including platforms like Reddit, though that’s evolving). The can bolt on new services like AI SEO or GEO and, in some cases, significantly increase revenue. But there’s a catch. This space is evolving fast. What works today might not work next quarter. That’s why Terry avoids gray-hat tactics and focuses on fundamentals. AI Is the Greatest Leverage Small Agencies Have Ever Had Terry believes this might be the most exciting time ever for small agencies because AI has eliminated barriers that used to require massive budgets. When a small restaurant client wanted a red snapper on a black background for their website, stock photography didn’t cut it and real shoot would’ve required a diver, photographer, cooperative fish and a significant budget. Instead, they used Midjourney to create the image. Then they animated it so the fins and gills subtly moved. The client was blown away. For a small restaurant, this level of visual production used to be impossible. Now it’s affordable and scalable. That’s the opportunity. Agencies can deliver higher-quality creative, faster, and at lower cost if they know how to use the tools. A Very Real Fear for Future Marketers Terry regularly speaks to marketing students who are worried AI will take their jobs. What he tells them is that AI won’t take your job, but . The key is not blind reliance. It’s intelligent leverage. AI is excellent at: Research Proposal drafting Competitive analysis First drafts of content Summarizing data What used to take weeks can now take hours. That frees your team from repetitive, dreaded tasks and allows them to focus on strategy, creativity, and client impact. But there’s a danger in over-reliance. Too many agencies are slapping “AI” on everything without adding original thinking or proprietary data. Your edge isn’t that you use AI. Your edge is your data. Every agency has unique client data, performance metrics, positioning, and experience. When you combine that with AI, that’s where real leverage happens. Building a Consensus Engine to Reduce AI Hallucinations One of the more advanced things Terry is experimenting with is what he calls a “consensus engine.” The problem with LLMs is that they’re probabilistic, not deterministic. Ask the same question twice and you’ll get two slightly different answers. They also hallucinate. To combat this, Terry built a workflow using N8N (a Zapier-like automation tool) that runs content through multiple LLMs. One writes it. Another critiques it. The final output must pass both systems before it’s considered valid. If they disagree, it’s sent back through with adjusted parameters. He’s also exploring how different LLMs perform best in different roles: Perplexity for real-time research ChatGPT for writing Claude for programming Instead of treating AI as one tool, he’s assembling a stack of specialized tools. That mindset shift, thinking like a systems architect instead of a prompt typist, is what separates surface-level AI use from strategic advantage. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40091715

How to Raise Your Agency Prices From $2,500 to $45,000/Month (Without Changing Deliverables) With Eli Rubel | Ep #885 03/04/2026

How to Raise Your Agency Prices From $2,500 to $45,000/Month (Without Changing Deliverables) With Eli Rubel | Ep #885 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Most agency owners don’t fail because they’re bad at delivery. They fail because they underprice, overcomplicate, and build businesses that trap them instead of freeing them. Today’s featured guest unpacks the type of life he envisioned when he set out to start an agency, it took to scale from charging $2,500 a month to closing $45,000/month retainers, surviving a market collapse, and making the counterintuitive decision to split one agency into two. Eli Rubel is the founder of , a B2B SaaS marketing agency, and , a premium design studio serving high-growth tech companies. He entered the agency world in 2019 after burning out on the venture-backed SaaS model, despite a previous exit. What drew him to agencies wasn’t prestige or scale; it was a desire to take control over his time, lifestyle, income, and location. Agencies, when built correctly, offered the fastest path to freedom without sacrificing ambition. Over the next few years, Eli scaled MatterMade aggressively, navigated a brutal tech downturn, and rebuilt his business with sharper positioning, stronger pricing, and clearer operational boundaries. In this episode, we discussed: Why hiking prices was the right choice early one How and why he decided to create his second agency The reason that shared services failed fast Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Agencies could be losing 15–30% of their profit every year without seeing it. The usual suspects are time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those “quick” client requests that never get billed. That’s why Toggl created the Agency Profit Heist, a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. Why Agencies Beat Venture-Backed SaaS (If You Want Freedom) After years in venture-backed SaaS, chasing growth at all costs, Eli was done with a model he realized was grinding him down. The pressure, the lack of control, and the delayed payoff didn’t align with what he actually wanted: family, flexibility, and financial independence. Agencies offered speed to cash and autonomy, which SaaS didn’t. Instead of swinging for a hypothetical future exit, Eli chose a business model that paid well now and let him design his life intentionally. It was a shift he made with eyes wide open and clear expectations. The “best” business model depends on what you want your life to look like. For Eli, agencies weren’t a step down. They were a strategic upgrade. Hiking His Prices Relying on Capacity and Confidence Eli’s agency launched at $2,500 a month, not because that was the “right” price, but because he backed into a simple income goal. Sixteen clients at $2,500 got him to $40,000 a month. On paper, it worked. In reality, it broke fast. As soon as clients started saying “yes” too quickly, Eli knew something was off. The work was heavy, margins were thin, and building a team at that price point wasn’t sustainable. Instead of obsessing over competitive pricing, . Every time the team hit capacity, prices went up. If prospects said no, it didn’t matter, they couldn’t take on more work anyway. If prospects said yes, it justified hiring and scaling. Over three years, pricing climbed from $2,500 to $45,000 per month. What he learned was that underpricing doesn’t just hurt margins. It traps you in constant hiring, delivery stress, and low-leverage work. Raising prices isn’t greedy, it’s operational discipline. What Actually Changes When You Raise Prices Eli didn’t wake up one day and charge $45,000 for the same work he was doing at $2,500. Early on, : “We’ll help with demand gen.” Strategy was loose, scope was unclear, and the team was tiny. As pricing increased, the delivery model matured into a defined pod structure with paid media, design, strategy, and leadership baked in. However, once his agency hit around $15,000 per month, the services didn’t change much after that. What changed was credibility. Case studies stacked up. Results became undeniable. Sales conversations shifted from “this is a great deal” to “this is what it costs to remove risk.” Eli was upfront with prospects: MatterMade would be $10,000–$15,000 more per month than competitors, and nothing about the deliverables would look different. The difference was the track record. For buyers who weren’t cash-sensitive, that pitch landed hard. They weren’t paying for tasks. They were paying for certainty. Why Splitting One Agency into Two Was the Right Move At its peak in 2021, MatterMade was flying high, with $4.2M in EBITDA, tech clients everywhere, and acquisition talks underway. Then the tech market collapsed. Almost overnight, VC-backed clients cut agencies, froze spending, and hunkered down. They went from crushing it to losing nearly $200,000 a month. Eli held on too long, assuming it was temporary, and paid dearly for it. During the restructuring, Eli noticed something interesting: design had become a bottleneck across tech companies. Designers were laid off, but the need for creative work didn’t disappear. So , fast. New brand, new site, launched in a weekend. Within months, it was profitable. Separating the businesses allowed each to have crystal-clear positioning. MatterMade stayed focused on growth marketing. No Boring Design became a premium creative solution for companies stuck in hiring freezes. Trying to keep design tucked inside the marketing agency would have slowed everything down. Separation created speed, clarity, and growth. Why Shared Services Across Agencies Sound Smart and Fail Fast One of Eli’s biggest mistakes came after the split. He tried to create a shared management company to handle leadership, recruiting, and operations across multiple agencies. On paper, it looked efficient. In practice, it was chaos. Each agency had subtle but important differences in how it worked. SOPs drifted. Leaders got stretched thin. The “squeaky wheel” agency got attention while others suffered. Eventually, Eli unwound the entire structure. The hard truth: unless your companies operate almost identically, shared services create more friction than savings. Clarity beats efficiency. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40219310

Can AI Help Your Agency Win Fortune 10 Clients Instead of Replacing Your Team? With Gilad Bechar | Ep #884 03/01/2026

Can AI Help Your Agency Win Fortune 10 Clients Instead of Replacing Your Team? With Gilad Bechar | Ep #884 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? “How many people can this replace?” is the wrong question to ask about AI. The better question is, “What could my team do if all the busywork disappeared?” Today’s featured guest unpacks how he’s embedded AI across a 12-year-old agency, why it’s increased hiring instead of reducing it, and what it actually takes to make AI stick culturally, not just technically. Gilad Bechar is the founder and CEO of , a global digital transformation agency that started as a mobile marketing shop and evolved into a full-service growth partner for some of the biggest brands in the world, Google, Microsoft, Uber, Samsung, and more. Over the past 12 years, Moburst has completed five acquisitions and continues to acquire two to three companies per year, intentionally expanding capabilities to become a true one-stop growth shop. In our previous conversation, . This time, we focused on what Gilad calls the next major accelerator: AI. In this episode, we’ll discuss: AI is NOT a side project. AI adoption could result in more hiring, not less How your agency team could see AI as a career transformation Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Treating AI as a Strategic Priority, Not a Side Project One of the biggest mistakes agencies make with AI is delegating it too low in the organization. Gilad knew early on that AI wasn’t a trend; it was an operational shift. Instead of hiring a junior “AI manager” or tasking a developer with experiments, he . The mandate was simple but uncomfortable: if you’re doing things in 2026 the same way you did them in 2024, you’re already behind. That level of change creates friction, especially in senior teams with decades of experience. Gilad was clear that AI adoption couldn’t be optional or political. A manager shouldn’t have to “fight” a director or VP to change how work gets done. By putting AI leadership at the VP level, Moburst removed that bottleneck entirely. AI wasn’t framed as “your work is wrong.” It was framed as “your work could be 10x more effective if we rethink the process.” They backed this up structurally. Every team has an AI Champion, someone who spends 20–30% of their time driving AI adoption within their department while still doing real client work. On top of that, there’s a central AI team building protocols, agents, workflows, and even new products. The result: AI becomes part of how the agency operates, not something people dabble in when they have extra time (which no one ever has). Why AI Led to More Hiring, Not Less There’s a persistent fear among agency teams that AI equals layoffs. Gilad’s experience has been the opposite. The original internal goal was to increase billable capacity per employee by 50%. On paper, that could mean doing the same revenue with fewer people. In reality, what happened was far more interesting: revenue per employee increased and demand exploded. When Moburst started showing clients what was possible, new automations, new AI-powered offerings, faster insights, smarter execution, it unlocked more budget. Clients didn’t just buy services; they bought innovation. They talked about it internally. They shared it with peers. And that momentum brought in larger, more sophisticated opportunities. Gilad shared an example where Moburst won two Fortune 10 companies in Q4, one of which came in looking for a media agency. Media alone would’ve won the pitch. But what sealed the deal was showing how the brand could improve visibility and positioning across AI-driven discovery platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Claude. This is the key shift: AI freed up time and raised the ceiling on value. Instead of spending hours exporting spreadsheets, building decks, or manually stitching reports together, teams could focus on thinking, collaborating, and creating new growth levers for clients. That’s not a cost-cutting story. That’s a growth story. Using AI to Upgrade People, Not Replace Them Another overlooked . Gilad talked openly about roles that are likely to disappear as platforms automate more of the execution. Media buying is a great example. When Google and Meta are telling the market that campaigns will soon require little more than a credit card and a website, the writing is on the wall. Instead of pretending that isn’t happening, he decided to lean into it. Media managers, content managers, and BI specialists were given the opportunity to reskill, moving into AI-focused roles where their domain knowledge still mattered, but their output multiplied. A content manager could become an AI workflow designer. A media buyer could evolve into someone who builds and manages intelligent systems instead of manually tweaking campaigns. This reframes AI from a threat into leverage. Employees aren’t stuck defending outdated tasks; they’re learning future-proof skills. That mindset shift alone changes morale, retention, and performance. Building a Culture of AI Sharing and Experimentation At his agency, Gilad made . Every week, AI Champions review what’s new in the AI world and translate it into what this means for our teams right now. Monthly hackathons focus the entire team on eliminating one manual process at a time. And then there’s AI Week—a multi-day internal event where every team presents what they built, what worked, and what failed. The presentations aren’t dry. Teams tell stories. They demo workflows. They show where things broke and how they pivoted. Some even use AI-generated video to walk through the narrative. That transparency matters. Failure isn’t hidden, it’s shared. And that creates trust, speed, and cross-team learning. One team’s solution becomes another team’s shortcut. Ideas jump departments. People start asking, “How could this apply to my work?” That’s when AI stops being a tool and starts becoming a multiplier. The Bigger Takeaway for Agency Owners You don’t need a VP of AI tomorrow. You don’t need hackathons or AI week or 16 champions. But you do need to take the first step. AI adoption doesn’t start with tools. It starts with ownership. Someone has to be accountable for asking, “If we rebuilt this process today, would we still do it this way?” Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40026235

Built for Freedom. How to Create a Lifestyle Agency That Doesn’t Burn You Out with Marissa Rosen | Ep #883 02/25/2026

Built for Freedom. How to Create a Lifestyle Agency That Doesn’t Burn You Out with Marissa Rosen | Ep #883 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Most agency owners start out chasing freedom and then wake up one day realizing they’ve built a job they can’t escape. Today’s featured guest will unpack what it actually looks like to build a lifestyle-first agency that protects your time, adapts to AI, and still pays the bills without burning you out. She has run a small profitable agency for over a decade without a bloated team, nonstop chaos, or ego-driven “scale at all costs” thinking, and she breaks down how designing your agency backward from your life (not an exit slide) changes everything. Marissa Rosen is the founder of , a 10-year-old micro-agency built around flexibility, partnerships, and human-first marketing. She’s proof you don’t need a bloated team, or chaos to run a sustainable, profitable agency. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Deciding to build a lifestyle business Setting clear boundaries that clients learn to respect Adapting roles instead of fighting change Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. The Lifestyle Agency Lie and How to Actually Do It Right Marissa didn’t start Climate Social with a master plan to sell it for a giant payday. She knew she cared about climate action, storytelling, and social media, and she wanted a business that fit her life. Ten years later, that intention has paid off in a very real way. Her agency operates as a true lifestyle agency. Marissa works from home, sets her own hours, chooses her clients, and stays deeply involved in the work she enjoys most. The agency provides stability, fulfillment, and income, without requiring her to sacrifice time with her kids or burn herself out chasing scale for scale’s sake. While many agency owners seek to build an agency to sell, it’s not the plan for everyone, and it’s a path that usually comes with years of sacrifice. A lifestyle agency, on the other hand, is available to far more owners if they design intentionally. The key isn’t size. It’s clarity around what kind of life the agency is meant to support. Setting Rules So Clients Don’t Run Your Life One of the biggest traps agency owners fall into is mistaking flexibility for chaos. They start an agency for freedom, then say yes to everything, and suddenly the business owns them. You can avoid this by setting clear, non-negotiable rules. For example, Marissa doesn’t take meetings after 3 p.m. Eastern. That’s when her kids come home, and her role shifts from founder to mom. Clients know this upfront, . Whoever sets the rules first wins. If you don’t define boundaries, your clients will do it for you. And once expectations are set early, they’re much easier to maintain. From Solo Operator to Partner-Led Agency A major shift in Marissa’s business came when she stopped trying to do everything herself. Early on, it was essentially a solo operation. Over time, she transitioned into a partner-based model, bringing in trusted specialists for branding, web development, PR, and other services. This shift . Instead of being responsible for sales and delivery and execution, Marissa focuses on strategy, relationships, and assembling the right team for each engagement. Clients get better outcomes, and she gets her time back. This is a critical lesson for agency owners feeling stuck in the weeds. You don’t need a huge team to scale intelligently, but you do need to stop being the bottleneck. Leveraging partners is often the fastest way to reclaim bandwidth without blowing up overhead. Adapting Roles Instead of Fighting Change We all know AI has dramatically changed certain services, especially in areas like video production and content creation. Tasks that once took days can now be done faster and cheaper, which has forced agencies to rethink pricing and positioning. But here’s the important part: AI hasn’t replaced strategy, relationships, or judgment. Clients still need someone to guide them, ask the right questions, and make sure the output actually connects with the right audience. AI is a tool, not a replacement for thinking. In some agencies, traditional media buying roles are being replaced, not eliminated by AI manager roles. Teams aren’t shrinking; they’re shifting. The agencies winning right now aren’t asking, “How do we avoid AI?” They’re asking, “How do we use AI to save time and deliver better results?” That mindset opens up new service offerings, new efficiencies, and new value for clients. Your role as an owner shifts from “doing” to directing. For Marissa, marketing is H2H — . Whether it’s B2B or B2C doesn’t matter as much as people think. At the end of the day, buyers want to know who they’re working with, what they stand for, and whether they can trust them. That’s why Marissa spends so much time helping founders and executives show up authentically on social media—not just hiding behind a brand logo. AI can help with efficiency. Automation can help with scale. But relationships are still the differentiator. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/40177165

Is AI Bad for SEO Agencies or Their Biggest Advantage? With David Arato | Ep #882 02/22/2026

Is AI Bad for SEO Agencies or Their Biggest Advantage? With David Arato | Ep #882 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? AI didn’t wipe out SEO; it just exposed who was phoning it in. While some agencies are panicking about AI “stealing their jobs” or racing to the bottom on price, the smart ones are quietly using it to get sharper, more profitable, and more strategic. Today’s featured guest has been in the SEO trenches for 15+ years and runs an agency producing millions of words of content every month. He’ll break down his perspective on what’s actually happening right now, why generic AI content is worthless, how agencies should really be pricing in an AI world, and why this shift is an opportunity to move up-market instead of becoming a commodity. If you run an agency and don’t want to be replaced by a robot (or undercut by one), this conversation is for you. David Arato is the founder of , producing millions of words of SEO content every month for law firms and law-firm marketing agencies across North America. He’s been in the SEO game for 15+ years and lived through the AI disruption firsthand. AI is only killing agencies that refuse to adapt The real problem isn’t AI Does the SEO vs AEO matter? Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. AI Didn’t Kill SEO; It Killed Bad Agencies That Refused to Adapt Probably every agency owner has wondered, “… why would clients pay us?” over the past couple of years. David had that exact thought in December 2022 when ChatGPT dropped. He literally told his wife he might need to go back to practicing law. Fast forward to now and AI has been nothing but good for business. And that’s the part most agency owners are missing. The Real Problem Isn’t AI, It’s Commoditization According to David, AI removed the barrier to entry for creating generic content. And once everyone can do something, it has no value. That’s why blog posts written “for SEO” are dying. Not because content doesn’t work, but because copy-paste AI garbage doesn’t. Google doesn’t care how content is created. They care whether it’s helpful, credible, and demonstrates real experience. Especially in “your money, your life” industries like legal, finance, and healthcare. In other words, if your agency’s value prop was “we write blog posts,” AI exposed how fragile that model was. Why Smart Agencies Are Actually Winning With AI Here’s what changed for David’s agency, and what should change for yours: Before AI: Writers spent hours on first drafts Margins were capped by human time Strategy was an afterthought After AI: AI handles the grunt work Humans focus on strategy, voice, expertise, and data Content is faster, cheaper to produce, and better That shift matters. Because clients aren’t paying for words. They’re paying for outcomes. “SEO vs AI Search” Is the Wrong Debate A lot of agencies are stuck arguing: SEO vs GEO SEO vs whatever acronym Twitter invents next week Here’s the reality: Search is becoming hybrid. This means that, yes, AI overviews now dominate the top of Google. But organic results still matter. Paid is still there. It’s all blending together. Which means agencies need to stop selling “SEO deliverables” and start selling search visibility strategy. Same skill set. Bigger mindset. The Pricing Wake-Up Call If you own an agency, you know that clients are asking for more content at lower costs. That’s not a threat. It’s a forcing function. The agencies that survive will: Increase volume without killing margins Stop selling fulfillment as their core offer The ones that won’t? They’ll stay stuck in fulfillment, stressed about margins, and quietly resentful of AI. The Real Differentiator Going Forward Everyone has access to the same AI tools. So could clients get the same results by themselves? Not likely What they don’t have: Your data. Your experience. Your insights from years in the trenches That’s the leverage. And it’s why authenticity,, and human connection are becoming premium assets, whether in content, video, or sales. AI can’t shake a hand, AI can’t read the room, AI can’t replace leadership. That’s your unique value proposition. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39969780

Stop Building a Job: How to Build an Agency That Supports Your Life with Brian Franks | Ep #881 02/18/2026

Stop Building a Job: How to Build an Agency That Supports Your Life with Brian Franks | Ep #881 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Most agencies aren’t fragile because of bad systems but because everything runs through the founder. One unexpected hit and the whole thing wobbles. Today’s featured guest shares the real-world test no agency owner ever wants: a hemorrhagic stroke that took him out overnight. What happened next is the part every agency owner needs to hear. Because his business didn’t collapse. It kept moving, clients stayed, deals closed, and trust carried the weight. If your agency can’t function without you, this conversation will feel uncomfortably familiar. Brian Franks is the founder of , a premium branding and storytelling agency working with major retail brands like American Eagle and Five Below. He spent 20+ years rising to VP of Creative at American Eagle before launching his agency over a decade ago. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Getting comfortable with a hard question How Brian built a resilient agency Why your network is the real asset Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. If You Got Hit by a Bus, Would Your Agency Survive? Let’s get uncomfortable for a second. If you disappeared for 30 days (hospital, burnout, family emergency), would your agency come back stronger, the same… or on fire? Most agency owners don’t like that question. Because deep down, they already know the answer. This is a question every agency owner should ask, especially if you’re doing $1M–$10M, stuck in fulfillment, carrying everything in your head, and telling yourself, “I’ll fix the systems later.” Brian didn’t plan to test his agency this way. In February 2024, he suffered a hemorrhagic stroke and ended up in the ICU for a brain drain. It took weeks of recovery. No warning. And . Here’s why that matters. Brian Didn’t Build a “Big” Agency. He Built a Resilient One. Brian spent 20 years at American Eagle, rising from graphic designer to VP of Creative. He worked with massive agencies and saw the billings. He also saw the waste and understood what actually mattered. So when he launched Where Eagles Dare, he didn’t chase headcount or ego. He sought to build: A small, senior team Deep relationships, not vendor contracts An agency designed around his strengths That’s the part most founders miss. They scale complexity instead of clarity. The Lie Agency Owners Believe A lot of agency owners think freedom comes after scale. More clients → more people → more systems → someday freedom. In reality, that path usually leads to: Thin margins Constant Slack pings And a founder who can’t unplug without guilt Brian flipped that by staying scrappy, limiting active clients, staying close to the work that mattered, and delegating the rest to people he trusted for years. So when life punched him in the face, the agency stepped up. Your Network Is the Real Asset When Brian went down, his network took over. A former American Eagle CMO stepped in to help lead. His wife helped close a major Five Below deal. Longstanding client relationships stayed solid There was no panic, mass client churn, or revenue freefall. That doesn’t happen by accident. That happens when you: Play the long game Treat relationships like equity Build trust before you need it Most agencies don’t fail because of bad marketing. They fail because everything depends on the founder. The Question You Can’t Ignore If you were gone for a month, would your agency be worse, the same, or better? If the answer scares you, good. Because it means you’re still early enough to fix it. The Real Goal Isn’t Scale. It’s Control Brian’s story isn’t about hustle or heroics. It’s about building an agency that: Pays you well Respects your health Doesn’t collapse without you Still excites you creatively That’s the real win. And if you’re tired of being the bottleneck, you’re stuck in fulfillment, referrals are your only growth plan, or you’re not paying yourself what you should… Then it’s time to rebuild. Not bigger, but smarter. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39911740

Surviving a 70% Loss In Agency Revenue. From Panic to Purpose with Melany Robinson | Ep #880 02/15/2026

Surviving a 70% Loss In Agency Revenue. From Panic to Purpose with Melany Robinson | Ep #880 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? When Melany Robinson lost 70% of her agency’s revenue overnight during COVID, she didn’t just “cut costs.” She rebuilt her team around trust, ownership, and shared sacrifice and learned why keeping C players is one of the most expensive mistakes agency owners make. This episode is a masterclass in leadership, culture, and making hard decisions without losing your soul. Guest Overview Melany Robinson is the founder of , a 30-person integrated communications agency serving hospitality, real estate, and lifestyle brands. She’s led her agency through rebrands, crises, and COVID, emerging stronger, leaner, and clearer on what real team culture actually means. What You’ll Learn Why COVID exposed the hidden cracks in most agency team structures The real cost of keeping “C players” during uncertain times How to handle massive revenue loss without destroying trust The mindset shift from “managing people” to leading a team Why retreats, alignment, and shared experiences matter more than perks Key Takeaways You can’t afford C players, especially during down cycles Shared sacrifice builds loyalty; secrecy destroys it Letting clients out of contracts can be a long-term growth play Culture isn’t words on a wall. It’s how people show up under pressure Great leaders give clarity, not control The best teams row in sync or the boat doesn’t move Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. What Losing 70% of Revenue Taught One Agency Owner About Leadership Most agency owners agree that culture matters. But culture doesn’t show up when revenue is up and clients are easy. It shows up when 70% of your revenue disappears overnight. That’s exactly what happened to Melany Robinson, founder of Sprout House, when COVID hit. Hospitality clients vanished. Contracts evaporated. The “we’ll figure it out” optimism most agency owners run on suddenly wasn’t enough. And here’s the part most people won’t admit: This is where . The Myth: “If I Work Hard and Treat Clients Well, Growth Is Guaranteed” Before COVID, Melany believed what a lot of agency owners believe: Do great work. Act with integrity. Revenue will take care of itself. COVID blew that illusion up. Revenue is never guaranteed. Clients don’t owe you loyalty. And culture doesn’t magically hold when fear enters the room. So instead of hiding behind executive decisions, Melany did something most agency owners are terrified to do: She brought the team into the truth. Radical Transparency Beats Quiet Panic Sprout House told clients they could exit contracts. No penalties. Then Melany sat down with her team and laid out the reality: Revenue was down 70%. Something had to change. The choice wasn’t who gets cut. It was how do we survive this together? The team chose shared compensation reductions over layoffs. Some people left. Others stayed. And that’s when the real lesson emerged. The Hidden Cost of C Players C players aren’t bad people. They just show up for themselves first. In good times, they’re invisible and in hard times, they drain energy, margin, and morale. Melany realized something every scaling agency owner eventually learns the hard way: You can’t afford C players during down cycles or up cycles. They don’t row in sync. They protect their seat instead of the boat. On the contrary, A-players lean in. They sacrifice. They care about the whole. And those people are worth everything. Leadership Isn’t Managing. It’s Creating Clarity Melany doesn’t pretend to be a great “manager.” Great agency founders don’t micromanage. They cast vision, set expectations, and get out of the way. Clarity isn’t being bossy. It’s saying: “This is what needs to be done. By this date. I trust you to figure out how.” , not task-doers. Why Culture Is Built Outside the Office Sprout House invests heavily in retreats and real connection. They take the team horseback riding, snowmobiling, swimming in cenotes, and playing games by the pool. Not strategy decks. Not whiteboards. Why? Because . It’s built when people see each other as humans instead of roles. And when things get hard, that trust is the difference between fragmentation and resilience. The Agency Owner Reality Check If you’re honest, you’ve probably felt some version of this: You’re stuck in fulfillment You’re carrying people who aren’t carrying their weight Revenue feels fragile You’re not paying yourself what you should You know something has to change, but you’re avoiding the decision This episode isn’t about COVID. It’s about leadership. And the uncomfortable truth that scaling requires subtraction before multiplication. The Question Is Simple Who’s really in your boat? Because hope isn’t a strategy. And C players are more expensive than you think. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39911940

Want to Sell Your Agency? Start by Firing Yourself with Taylor McMaster | Ep #879 02/11/2026

Want to Sell Your Agency? Start by Firing Yourself with Taylor McMaster | Ep #879 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Most agency owners talk about selling someday, but very few actually build with that outcome in mind. They stay deeply embedded in delivery, sales, and decision-making, hoping an exit will magically appear later. In this episode, that myth gets dismantled. Today’s featured guest, former owner of Dot & Company, shares how she intentionally designed a productized agency that could run without her long before an acquisition was even on the table. After successfully selling Dot & Co to E2M, she reflects on building with exit thinking from day one, how she connected with the right buyers, how she knew it was the right deal, and what genuinely surprised her about the process. Taylor McMaster is the former owner of . She built and sold a productized agency specializing in fractional account management for agencies and successfully exited to E2M after designing the business to operate without her long before the deal was on the table. If you’ve ever wondered what it actually takes to build an agency you can step away from, and one someone would want to buy, this conversation sets the stage. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Making the decision to build a sellable business early on The role that uncloked scale The sales trap Why her exit felt easy Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How to Build an Agency You Can Sell Many agency owners say they want to sell one day, but are building a business that tells a very different story. They’re still on every client call. Still approving every deliverable. Still the only one who can close deals. Still the glue holding everything together. For her part, Taylor decided early on that she didn’t wait until she was exhausted to think about an exit. She designed the business for it. Exit Thinking Changes Everything About a year into building Dot & Co, Taylor made a quiet but powerful decision: “If I want an exit someday, I can’t build this like a lifestyle business.” That one thought changed how she hired, delegated, and structured the company. Instead of asking, “How do I do this better?” She asked, “How do I make myself unnecessary?” That meant systematically : Fulfillment People management Operations Admin Finance Not overnight. Not perfectly. But intentionally. The First Hire That Most Agency Owners Avoid Most agency owners start by hiring delivery help. However, there are multiple ways to go about this, especially if you understand where your expertise lies and where someone else could be doing a better job. Taylor hired a people manager early because she knew managing humans was her weakest skill and her biggest future bottleneck. That one hire unlocked scale. Why? Because resource-heavy agencies don’t break because of strategy. They break because of people chaos. The Agency Sales Trap and Lesson Learned Like most founders, Taylor stayed in sales for a while. Eventually, she tried to step out and hit friction. Sales slowed. Messaging got inconsistent. Results dipped. For her, the lesson was that , the nuance, the pain. Her hindsight advice is gold for any agency owner: Get really good at sales first, then teach it or bring in a true closer once the system exists. Too many owners abdicate sales before they’ve productized it. That’s how pipelines dry up and panic hiring begins. Creating an Easy Exit… Because the Work Was Done Early By the time E2M acquired Dot & Co, Taylor had already: taken a 6-month maternity leave, and watched the business continue to grow without her So when the deal closed, there was no scramble. No identity meltdown. No team revolt. Her team was excited. Clients were curious but optimistic. And Taylor was ready. Finding Identity Without Being Trapped By Your Agency Taylor realized something most agency owners avoid: You can love your business without owning it. When your identity isn’t trapped inside your agency, you make better decisions. You stop hoarding control. You stop being the bottleneck. You build something that actually has value with or without you. If you’re stuck in fulfillment… If your team can’t move without you… If you’re scared to step back because everything might break… That’s not a failure. It’s just a sign you’ve built around you instead of systems. And that’s fixable. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39925750

#1 Overlooked Exit Strategy: Selling Your Agency to a Team Member with Natalie Henley | Ep #878 02/08/2026

#1 Overlooked Exit Strategy: Selling Your Agency to a Team Member with Natalie Henley | Ep #878 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Natalie Henley, CEO of , is here to unpack how she bought out her agency’s founder. Not through PE, not through M&A, but as a trusted insider who built her path from employee to owner. Natalie shares the behind-the-scenes story of how she without needing an SBA loan, the mindset shifts she had to make, and how the agency survived both Google’s algorithm changes and COVID-19 cratering their top clients. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Grooming your #2 to become your successor, or become the one buying. Avoiding mistakes that slow down or kill an internal exit. Using creative financing (HELOCs, owner carry notes, balloon payments) to structure the deal. Knowing when an employee has what it takes to run the agency. Preserving trust and team stability during a leadership transition. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Links: Natalie’s free AI and SEO grader tool: Want to know what your agency is worth? Check out the The overlooked exit strategy: … Natalie started as an employee in a boutique digital firm. When it got acquired by Volume Nine, she climbed the ranks the old-school way: by taking on every problem no one else would. Over time, she ran the company. Then COVID hit. The agency’s revenue cratered. Clients disappeared. The founder wanted out. But instead of flipping to a stranger, he turned to Natalie. The “Oh Shit” Moment and the Deal That Followed When the founder came to Natalie with the offer to buy, he already had the groundwork laid. He'd called the bank, scoped out an SBA loan, and gave her a number. Natalie didn’t have a pile of cash sitting around, but she did have grit, resourcefulness, and inside knowledge of the business. She didn’t take the SBA route. Instead, she pieced together a creative financing stack: A HELOC for the down payment An owner-carry note A balloon payment at the end The company is paying for itself over time. No brokers. No middlemen. Just a fair, fast, founder-to-founder deal. Why This Worked (And Why Most Don’t) Natalie had already been: Running the company Exposed to the numbers Made a co-owner years earlier This wasn't a random promotion. It was a trust-built, stress-tested evolution. And it mattered. Because when the deal closed, the culture didn’t collapse. The clients stayed. The team believed. What if the best buyer for your agency is already on your team? If you’re feeling done, but still care about your agency, selling to a team member might be the cleanest win. Here’s how to set it up: Start grooming your #2 now. VP → President → Co-owner → Buyer. Expose them to EBITDA, profitability, client churn…. everything. Stress-test them: give scary responsibilities and see how they show up. Be fair. Don’t squeeze every dime. The goal is continuity and peace of mind. Don’t wait until you’re burned out. Move before it’s a fire drill. Agency ownership is a wild ride. If you're that doesn’t torch your legacy, this might be it. And if you’re the #2? Start acting like the owner today. You never know when the keys will be offered. As Natalie said, “If you care about your team and the agency’s legacy, you owe it to yourself to consider your employees as potential buyers. Even if they say no, at least you gave them a shot.” Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39818050

Pricing Should Scare You: How to Stop Clients from Undervaluing Your Agency’s Work with Alicia Disantis | Ep #877 02/04/2026

Pricing Should Scare You: How to Stop Clients from Undervaluing Your Agency’s Work with Alicia Disantis | Ep #877 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Do you feel underpaid, misunderstood, or stuck explaining why your work costs what it costs? Most agency owners don’t wake up one day and decide, “You know what sounds fun? Running an agency.” They stumble into it, usually because the job market fails them. That’s exactly how today’s featured guest got her start. In this episode, she’ll unpack how slowly building her confidence as she gained more experienced changed her perspective on pricing and why most “thought leadership” content does more harm than good. Alicia Disantis is the owner and creative director of , a dual branding and design studio celebrating 15 years in business. She founded the agency during the 2008 recession, which is about as pressure-filled a launchpad as you can imagine. Before building a sustainable agency, Alicia wore a lot of creative hats: video game character artist for early mobile games, comic book artist for an urban vampire/werewolf series, and unpaid intern at a graphic design. These experiences heavily shaped how she thinks about value, pricing, and positioning today. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why agency pricing should feel scary. Educating clients who think your work is “easy.” An approach to thought leadership that actually creates value. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Creating a Unique Path that Lead to Agency Ownership Like many agency owners, Alicia didn’t start with a master plan. She started with a student loan bill that arrived a month before graduation and over a hundred job applications that led nowhere. When the traditional path failed, she did what resourceful creatives do: she pieced together work wherever she could find it. Freelance gigs turned into repeat work. Repeat work turned into confidence. And eventually, confidence turned into a business. She went from being an unpaid intern, to game designer, to a comic book designer, and forged a unique path, going from charging just $200 for her first freelance job to earning the confidence she needed to believe she could build her own business. Most agencies are born from survival more than a carefully thought business plan. The danger is that when you start that way, you often carry survival pricing and survival thinking far longer than you should. That early context matters, because it explains why so many agency owners struggle to raise prices later. From $200 Clients to Pricing That Feels Scary (In a Good Way) Alicia’s first client paid her $200. She also did a lot of free work, because at the time, that felt like the only way in. What changed over the years wasn’t some magic pricing formula. It was confidence. Marketing and creative work is deeply undervalued, especially compared to STEM or “expert” services. People don’t argue over a $250 legal consult but they will argue endlessly over a logo. As Alicia grew, she learned three critical skills: Educating clients on the real cost of doing work right Having the confidence to say no It wasn’t easy, but mostly it just took time. How to Educate Clients Who Think a Logo Is “Easy” Alicia managed to reframe the value of branding for skeptical clients not by arguing but by analogizing. Instead of defending design directly, she compares it to plumbing, legal work, or real estate. You wouldn’t hire a $5 freelancer to represent you in civil court, so why would you do that for the thing that represents your entire business? This framing does two things: It removes emotion from the conversation It positions branding as expert work, not artistic preference Clients should also understand the hidden cost of “cheap” solutions, especially with websites. Hiring a friend or a bargain provider usually leads to cut corners, broken functionality, and stalled growth when the person inevitably disappears. The goal isn’t to lead with fear. It’s to calmly explain consequences and let the client decide if cheap is really cheaper. Thought Leadership That Builds Trust (Not Clickbait) Thought leadership is an area where Alicia found significant success creating valuable educational content. In her view, it’s also something most agencies get wrong. The problem isn’t content volume. . In her experience, the key to producing this content is leading with research on what people want to hear about. She’s also encountered many white papers that don’t even offer any takeaways or new perspectives, which ends up diluting the trust on your brand. Alicia insists that everything she produces or is a part of must have key takeaways that her audience can translate into a real technical plan. She shared a four-part framework she uses before creating educational content: Motivation – Why does the audience care right now? Pain points – What problem are they actually trying to solve? Literacy level – How well do they understand the subject? Communication style – How do they prefer to consume information? The literacy piece is where most agencies mess up. If you speak marketing jargon to an audience that doesn’t have that literacy, you don’t sound smart. You sound patronizing. And nobody buys when they feel dumb. Alicia is intentional about making sure everything she puts out includes tangible takeaways—things people can write down and act on. Without that, it’s just noise. Playing the Long Game with Content and Personal Brand This podcast started over a decade ago not as a growth hack, but out of curiosity. The goal was to let listeners be a fly on the wall. The payoff took years, but now it’s a massive moat. People join our community and say they’ve been listening for years before ever raising their hand. That kind of trust doesn’t come from ads with rented Lambos. But it also takes time and determination. Less than 7% of podcasts make it past episode three, and only about 1% make it beyond episode 23. From Alicia’s perspective, finding your unique personality and value proposition is the hardest part of business. People are afraid to be different, but different is the whole point. Discovering your own value proposition on your own is like trying to tickle yourself. You need outside perspective to see what’s actually special. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39962645

From Burnout to Boundaries. Designing an Agency That Energizes You with Ingrid Schneider | Ep #876 02/01/2026

From Burnout to Boundaries. Designing an Agency That Energizes You with Ingrid Schneider | Ep #876 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Do you feel you’re giving everything to your agency and only getting exhaustion as a result? Agencies grow best when they’re built around clarity, empathy, and self-awareness. Whether it’s pricing, boundaries, team management, or AI, the common thread is intention. Today’s featured guest understands that you don’t need to hustle harder. You need to design smarter, around who you are, how you work best, and what kind of business you actually want to run. She’ll share her perspective on agency growth, self-awareness, leadership, and how AI should actually be used inside a modern agency and provide a real look at what it takes to build an agency that’s profitable, human, and sustainable without losing yourself in the process. Ingrid Schneider is the CEO and founder of , a fractional CMO and franchise development agency, and Train in Your Lane, an AI education company helping teams build real AI intuition. What started as fractional work after being laid off during the pandemic has grown into a 16-person team running full marketing departments, launching brands, building LMS platforms, and training companies like Ben & Jerry’s and Ace Hardware on how to actually use AI to solve problems. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Going from survival mode to self-worth: pricing and confidence. How to set boundaries and protect your brain. Design an agency that energizes you, not drains you. Managing people, not just performance with a human-first approach. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Building an Agency on Trust and Integrity Ingrid doesn’t come from a tidy, linear career path. After being laid off as a CMO during the pandemic, she made the decision to not work for anyone else again. She started doing fractional CMO work to replace her salary, focusing on trust, authenticity, and doing the work well. What began as a solo operation three and a half years ago is now a full team serving a wide range of clients. Some rely on Ingrid’s team to run their entire marketing department. Others bring them in for focused, fractional engagements. The growth didn’t come from aggressive sales tactics—it came from being reliable, human, and honest about what they were good at. Learning Your Worth and Unlearning Survival Mode When Ingrid landed her first client, she charged $3,000 a month for two brands. And that client still complained about pricing. Like many agency owners, she was focused on replacing her salary, not building a business. Survival mode has a way of shrinking your sense of value. Learning her worth didn’t come from a pricing spreadsheet. It came from personal work deconstructing old beliefs, recognizing her own capabilities, and understanding the impact she could have on others. Ingrid talks openly about how her upbringing and past experiences shaped her tendency to underprice herself and overextend. As her confidence grew, so did her standards. She began collecting people with grit, sometimes hiring for attitude over experience, and . The biggest lesson for her was: if you don’t believe in your value, your pricing, and your agency, will reflect that. Preventing Agency Burnout: How to Set Boundaries Running a business can be incredibly stressful, which is why many owners can relate to being in fight or fly mode all the time. However, this is the worst thing for both your health and your business because chronic stress will affect your brain and get you to a point known as “flipping your lid.” According to Ingrid, this term, which she learned from Dr. Daniel Siegel, describes what happens when stress pushes you into fight, flight, or freeze. Logic goes offline. Creativity disappears and everything feels harder. For agency owners, this shows up as exhaustion, impatience, and bad decisions, and healing will mean confronting the reality that you can’t run a business well if your body and brain are in survival mode. In her case, Ingrid found healing by . Knowing where your value is best served, trusting your team, and recognizing when their lids are flipped allows you to lead with empathy instead of pressure. The agency doesn’t need a burned-out hero. It needs a regulated, self-aware leader. Designing an Agency That Energizes You, Not Drains You This is a lesson that agency owners that currently and wanting to give up should learn. Drawing your boundaries will look different to everyone, but you can start by asking yourself what you want to do every day and what you never want to do again. Just draw a circle on a piece of paper and start writing. Inside: the work that gives you energy. Outside: everything that drains you. You’ll see that most likely what you need is to redesign your agency around this. You can’t be all things to all people. Agency that try usually end up miserable and unprofitable. Wins and losses both matter, but only if you’re paying attention to what they’re teaching you. Topline revenue means nothing if you hate how you’re earning it. Sustainable growth comes from aligning what’s good for the business with what actually fills your cup. That alignment is what keeps agencies alive long-term. Managing People, Not Just Performance with a Human-First Approach As an empath, Ingrid leads with a people-first approach rooted in Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI). When something goes wrong, she looks at three things in order: herself, the system, and then the person. Are expectations clear? Do they have the resources they need? Is she showing up with patience? Perfectionism isn’t the goal in her agency because perfection is stressful, unrealistic, and unnecessary. Instead, the focus is on doing really good work while protecting the team’s mental energy. This is where AI comes in, not as a shortcut for thinking, but as a way to remove the minutia that burns people out. This has been the case for Ingrid, who enjoys managing people. If this is not your case, then focus on hiring people who can manage themselves. But remember you have to learn to let go if you want a self-managing team. There are countless ways to reach the same outcome and speed isn’t always the metric that matters most. Sometimes the “slow” work produces the best results. Using AI to Empower Teams, Not Create More Noise Ingrid’s approach focuses on education and the fact that everyone should be training their AI intuition to be able to understand how an AI tool works and how it could help them. She trained her own intuition by changing her social media algorithms to feed her AI micro-learnings. From there, it became about application: looking at every agency task and asking, Can AI help solve this better? Her team runs weekly “show and tell” sessions where they demo how they used AI to solve real problems. There’s also an AI policy but it’s framed as a permission slip, not a rulebook. Team members can experiment with tools on a company card, and if they prove value, the agency commits. The bigger point is this: if you’re not empowering your team to use AI thoughtfully, you’re holding them back. This isn’t about pumping out more content—it’s about freeing up human brains to do the work that actually matters. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39908650

Can You Trust AI With Your Marketing Data or Is It Lying to You? With Scott Desgrosseilliers | Ep #875 01/28/2026

Can You Trust AI With Your Marketing Data or Is It Lying to You? With Scott Desgrosseilliers | Ep #875 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Are you feeding your data into AI and assuming the insights it gives you are accurate? What if those confident-sounding answers are quietly steering you in the wrong direction? More agency owners are turning to AI to analyze and interpret performance data, and for good reason. Used correctly, it can save massive amounts of time and move teams beyond using AI to crank out blog posts, ads, or emails faster. But when it comes to attribution, performance analysis, and real decision-making, AI has a dangerous flaw: it’s often wrong with absolute confidence. Today’s featured guest understands where most agencies go wrong with AI-driven data analysis. He’ll break down why large language models frequently misinterpret marketing data, how flawed inputs and assumptions lead to misleading insights, and what it actually takes to get reliable answers from AI without burning budget or making bad strategic calls. Scott Desgrosseilliers is the founder and CEO of , a marketing attribution platform built specifically for e-commerce brands doing between $5M and $50M in annual revenue. Scott has spent years deep in attribution, analytics, and now AI, figuring out how to separate real signal from noise in an ecosystem where every platform claims the win. He’ll talk about how most platforms may be misleading you and the framework he uses to bring sanity back to attribution for serious e-commerce brands. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why AI is sounds smart but gets marketing attribution wrong. Injecting intention into AI. The Five Forces framework to improve your AI data. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why AI Sounds Smart But Gets Marketing Attribution Wrong One of the biggest myths around AI is that it’s inherently “smart.” Scott shared that it took eight months for Wicked Reports to release their AI analyst, not because the tech wasn’t powerful, but because it was too confident while being wrong. AI models are designed to sound affirmative. Ask them a bad question, and they’ll still give you a polished answer. If you ask ChatGPT if you should jump off a bridge, it’ll say, “Yes, that’s a great idea,” unless you explicitly train it to be critical. That’s a massive problem when you’re dealing with revenue attribution and ad spend decisions. Another major issue is that AI lacks native understanding of time, which is foundational to attribution. Clicks, impressions, tags, and conversions happen in sequence over days or weeks. layered in, AI can’t naturally interpret cause and effect. Left alone, it simply fills in gaps, and those hallucinations can cost you real money. Why Intention and Metrics Matter More Than the AI Tool The first thing Scott’s team had to “inject” into the AI was intention. Not all campaigns exist to do the same job. Prospecting, retargeting, direct response, and existing customer campaigns each have different goals and therefore require different scoreboards. If you don’t , it will make assumptions. And those assumptions are usually wrong. The “North Star” metrics and leading indicators change depending on what you’re trying to accomplish. A prospecting campaign shouldn’t be judged the same way as an abandoned cart flow. The second big issue is AI’s obsession with ROAS. ROAS is easy to latch onto because it gets rewarded with “thumbs up” feedback, but it’s often misleading. If two-thirds of your reported revenue comes from repeat customers via email or SMS, AI might tell you your ads are crushing it when they’re not. Simply separating new customers from repeat customers already puts you ahead of 95% of advertisers. The Five Forces Framework for Making Better Attribution Decisions To solve these problems, Scott introduced his Five Forces Framework, (intention, expectation, action, outcome, and optimization) . The first force is Intention, which defines both the scoreboard and the timeframe. New customer acquisition might need a 30–90 day window to show results, while an abandoned cart campaign can be evaluated in seven days. Without this context, teams panic too early and kill campaigns that haven’t had time to work. The second force is Expectation, which is all about alignment. Brand owners often look at Shopify, GA4, Meta, Google, Klaviyo, and SMS dashboards—all showing different numbers. Without agreeing on a single version of truth, clients freak out and shut down top-of-funnel campaigns after five days because the data “doesn’t look good yet.” Setting expectations isn’t a one-time conversation; it has to be reinforced constantly. Reducing Drama: Use “Scale, Chill, and Kill” to Guide Ad Spend The third force is Action, which includes launching the campaign but only after defining clear boundaries. Scott recommends setting “Scale, Chill, and Kill” zones before you spend a dollar. For example, if your acceptable new customer acquisition cost is $50–$70, that’s your Chill zone. Below $50? Scale it. Above $70? Kill it. These predefined rules remove emotion, reduce second-guessing, and dramatically lower what Scott calls “psychic stress” inside agencies and brands. Once campaigns run, the fourth force—Outcome—is simply measuring performance against those zones. Did it scale, chill, or die? Optimization Is More Than Creative Tweaks Most agencies obsess over creative, constantly swapping headlines, images, and copy. For Scott, optimization should be more structured. At his agency, they use a decision log to rank potential actions by impact, focusing on whether the problem is the offer, the creative, the traffic, or the budget. But Scott added a fourth optimization factor most teams miss: signaling. If you don’t send the right signals back to ad platforms, your optimization efforts don’t matter. Meta, in particular, is very good at claiming credit for conversions it didn’t truly drive and if it sees quick conversions, it will chase more of those, even if they’re just repeat customers. Training Ad Platforms to Optimize for What Actually Matters To fix this, Scott recommends creating separate events in Meta’s Events Manager for new customer purchases versus repeat purchases. That way, ad sets can optimize specifically for the outcome you want. If you’re closing existing customers through email or SMS, you don’t want Meta learning from those conversions. But when a new customer buys, Meta gets a clean signal and starts finding more people like them. Scott noted that when creative and offer are solid, sharpening signals alone can dramatically reduce acquisition costs within a month. You can even go deeper by signaling based on SKU types, allowing platforms to optimize toward higher-quality or more strategic purchases—not just any conversion they can grab credit for. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39871130

Why Most Agencies Sound the Same and How Yours Can Be Different with David Brier | Ep #874 01/25/2026

Why Most Agencies Sound the Same and How Yours Can Be Different with David Brier | Ep #874 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Most agencies don’t have a marketing problem. They have a sameness problem. Their websites, their services, their “award-winning team” language. It’s all the same. They even have the same promises that sound impressive but mean absolutely nothing to a prospect who’s heard it 50 times this week. Today’s featured guest has a pretty good idea of why agencies are blending into the background and how the ones that win are doing the opposite. He’ll get into differentiation, AI, pricing confidence, RFPs, and why playing it safe is the fastest way to disappear. is the the branding expert CEOs call when their marketing hits a wall. He calls himself “rehab for brands” to help get them profitable. He is the author of Brand Intervention and Rich Brand, Poor Brand, and he’s built a career around one core idea most agencies completely miss: branding isn’t about looking better but about being different. After realizing there were more than 25,000 branding books and no agreed-upon definition, David distilled branding down to four words: the art of differentiation. That idea alone reframes how agencies should think about positioning, pricing, and growth, especially right now. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why Differentiation Isn’t Optional in the Age of Lazy Thinking. Get Rid of the Agency Speak Saying ‘No’ as a Strategic Advantage Different is Better Than Better Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. Why Branding and Differentiation Are No Longer Optional for Agencies David’s definition of branding cuts through the noise because it mirrors how humans actually behave. . We ignore what feels familiar. If your agency sounds like a remix of every other agency, your prospects’ brains will quietly check out. That’s why brands like Apple feel predictable in a good way. As Seth Godin once said, you know what an Apple sneaker would be like. You don’t know what a Marriott sneaker would be like—and that’s the problem. One owns a point of view. The other plays it safe. For agencies, differentiation means making a choice and being willing to lose people who aren’t a fit. That’s uncomfortable, especially if you’re used to trying to appeal to everyone. But the agencies that scale aren’t trying to be a choice. They’re working to become the choice for the right clients. How “Agency Speak” Is Killing Your Sales Ask most agency owners what makes them different and you’ll hear the same three things: our people, our process, our portfolio. That language doesn’t differentiate you, it only anesthetizes the conversation. You wouldn’t advise your clients to use the language of the competition, so why would you? Additionally, David also believes that brands that take a stand and aren’t afraid to be bold will automatically stand out from the many many agencies that are too timid and too afraid to offend. This doesn’t mean you have to be divisive. You can be bold in a way that actually brings people together. This fear of being truly different comes from the way we’re all wired to believe that an amazing portfolio will be enough to draw people in. But the portfolio isn’t the most important thing in the room, is the person sitting across from you. Stop leading with your work and start leading with questions. When you ask better questions and actually listen, prospects feel seen. By the time you show your portfolio, if you even need to, they’ve already decided whether they trust you. That kind of confidence signals maturity—and it instantly separates you from the agencies still performing their pitch deck like a talent show. Why AI Is Fueling a Sea of Sameness in Agency Marketing AI isn’t the enemy… but lazy thinking is. David sees it as everyone is now outsourcing their ingenuity to the same tools, using the same prompts, producing the same safe output. The result is, of course, a sea of with no soul and no pulse. What he calls “The Great Wall of Beige.” The mistake agencies make is thinking AI replaces brilliance. It doesn’t. It amplifies whatever you bring to it. If you don’t have a point of view, AI will happily help you sound like everyone else faster. The agencies that win in this era will use AI as a tool, not a crutch. They’ll still ask, “Why the hell not?” They’ll still challenge assumptions. And they’ll still bring conviction, creativity, and human judgment to the table, because that’s the part clients can’t automate. The Power of Saying No: Reclaiming Pricing and Positioning When a buying process is run by a committee, the goal isn’t excellence, it’s consensus. And consensus is where great ideas go to die. This is why David stopped participating in RFPs. The most powerful move an agency can make isn’t trying harder to win bad deals. It’s being willing to walk away. The ability to say no signals strength. It reframes the relationship. When you stop chasing every opportunity and start choosing your clients, pricing objections lose their power. As David put it, when prospects ask why he’s so expensive, he flips the script: “Why is everyone else so cheap?” That mindset shift alone changes how clients perceive your value. What’s Next for Agencies to Stay Profitable in a Changing Market The landscape is changing even from week to week with new technologies, which makes it harder to predict how the industry will change in years to come. For David, it all boils down to knowing what you’re selling. Agencies that sell themselves as commodities will basically go out of business. As he points out, AI is accelerating output but not judgment, taste, or leadership. When everyone has access to the same tools and prompts, the middle ground disappears fast. Agencies that sell “deliverables” instead of thinking will find themselves racing to the bottom on price, competing with software instead of strategy. In a market flooded with instant, AI-generated work, the real differentiator becomes the ability to think on your feet, challenge assumptions, and connect dots in real time. The greatest athletes, actors, comedians, and entrepreneurs in the world were able to think for themselves and could take something unexpected and work with it and improvise. Can you give people something unexpected? That’s something no tool can replicate, and it’s why experience is becoming more valuable, not less. Why Different Beats Better: Escaping the Race to the Bottom David strongly believes that in these times of sameness and an abundance of content that lacks pulse and personality, different is better than better. Agencies that have completely given up trying to create something unique and have instead relegated the thinking to AI will try to stand out by repeatedly stating they’re better, faster, or bigger. David, however, prefers to . This gives him the confidence to face clients that come to a meeting with rehearsed questions they got from other creators to assess him and counter with “actually, you’re asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is…” No framework replaces conviction. The best leaders don’t answer scripted questions—they redirect them. That’s how you elevate the conversation. That’s how you escape commodity pricing. And that’s how you build a brand people remember. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39801180

From Broken Agency Partnerships to Bulletproof Self-Belief with Cliff Skelliter | Ep #873 01/21/2026

From Broken Agency Partnerships to Bulletproof Self-Belief with Cliff Skelliter | Ep #873 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Have you ever questioned whether you’re actually built for the hard seasons of agency life? When things get messy, unpredictable, or overwhelming, do you wonder if you have what it takes to keep going or if everyone else somehow got a playbook you missed? Most agency owners don’t wake up one day and decide, “I’m going to build an agency.” They trip into it. One project turns into two, side work turns into real revenue, and suddenly you’re invoicing clients without knowing what an invoice number is supposed to look like. Today’s featured guest unpacks what it really looks like to build an agency without a roadmap. Through failed partnerships, stalled careers, and moments where quitting felt easier than continuing, he developed the resilience and mindset required to keep moving. Cliff Skelliter is a serial entrepreneur and owner of , a design-thinking agency, working across brand identity, video production, and strategy. They blend artistry, functionality, and brand communication to create captivating digital and physical spaces that not only engage and inspire but also reflect the essence and values of the organizations they work with. In this episode, we’ll discuss: The Easiest Choice: Leaving his Career and Going All-In on the Agency What He Learned from His Partnership Experiences Self-Belief as the Most Important Lesson for Agency Owners Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. When Going All-In on the Side Hustle is as Easy Yes Cliff didn’t grow up in a family of entrepreneurs, and never set out to “start a business.” His entry into agency life wasn’t strategic, it was reactive. While working an internship at Canadian news station CTV, he saw the ceiling in broadcast media and realized that no matter how talented or ambitious he was, there was a limit to how far that career could go. Meanwhile, he was already getting requests to work on some projects outside of the station. Eventually, the projects kept getting bigger and the people at the station complained Cliff was creating a conflict of interests with his side hustle, as clients chose him, instead of the station, to produce their commercials. It was an ultimatum, and the choice was clear. By then, that “side hustle” was more lucrative and offered more creative control. Plus, it was just more fun. What’s important here isn’t just how Cliff started—it’s what he didn’t have. No business background. No sales training. No master plan. Like many agency owners, he learned by doing, Googling, guessing, and occasionally getting it wrong, which is mostly the default path. The danger is assuming everyone else has it figured out, while you’re making it up as you go. Agency Partnerships: When They Work and When They Break You Cliff’s first business partnership was . His partner helped get the business off the ground but was dishonest, reckless, and ultimately destructive. While Cliff focused on creative work, his partner handled sales and accounts… and quietly created financial chaos. When the partner disappeared, Cliff was left holding the debt and the consequences. Many agency owners bring on partners not because it’s strategic, but because it feels safer. Someone else handles sales. Someone else deals with money. Someone else shares the weight. But if values, ethics, and accountability aren’t aligned, the cost can be enormous. Thankfully, Cliff was able to recover from the blows to both the agency’s finances and its reputation. He also gave partnerships another chance. The second partnership was different and far more successful. Cliff partnered with someone who combined complementary skills to build a business that lasted nine years. It worked because each person did what they were good at and didn’t want to do the rest. Even then, the partnership eventually ended, not because of business failure, but personal life complications. ; they amplify whatever already exists. Clear roles, boundaries, and shared values make them powerful. Avoidance, people-pleasing, and lack of communication make them fragile. Resilience, Self-Belief, and the Placebo Effect of Entrepreneurship Cliff got important lessons from both experiences, mainly that he’s much more capable than he thought. He could handle sales, which is something he doubted for years. Like many agency owners, he assumed you had to be a certain “type” of salesperson or personality to run a business. In reality, you just need to ask better questions and not be afraid of uncomfortable conversations. He also learned he’s . Most agency owners would testify to the fact that the universe constantly gives you outs. Jobs. Acquisitions. Easier paths. And yet, something in your gut says, “I’m not done.” That resilience isn’t logical. It’s identity-level. Entrepreneurship stops being something you do and becomes something you are. He now understands the importance of believing in himself, even when it seems absurd. Your mind alone can trigger real physical outcomes. When doubt creeps in, remind yourself that belief itself is a lever. Not hype and not manifesting nonsense; just the willingness to keep going when the story in your head tells you to quit. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39732325

How to Adapt When Your Agency Niche Stops Working with Laryssa Wirstiuk | Ep #872 01/18/2026

How to Adapt When Your Agency Niche Stops Working with Laryssa Wirstiuk | Ep #872 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Running an agency today looks nothing like it did even a few years ago. What used to work: SEO-driven inbound leads, tight vertical niches, and predictable platforms, has shifted fast. Today’s featured guest has learned to adapt to these changes and went from having a clear and defined niche to letting clients’ needs guide the next steps for her business. She’ll talk about navigating those changes, evolving your positioning, and deciding whether you’re actually willing to do what adaptation requires. Laryssa Wirstiuk is the owner of , a boutique email and SMS marketing agency that serves women-focused, product-based e-commerce brands. With more than 15 years in marketing and over a decade running her own agency, Laryssa has lived through multiple shifts in platforms, buyer behavior, and agency models. Her background as a marketing generalist, working across SEO, social, and email, gave her the flexibility to adapt as the market changed. That adaptability, combined with a strong point of view on branding, inbound marketing, and outbound growth, made her a great guest for agency owners questioning what’s next for their own businesses. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Starting out with a clear niche and evolving along the way. Adopting a hybrid growth strategy. Personal brand vs. clear offers. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. How to Choose a Niche Without Getting Stuck In It Laryssa didn’t stumble into her original niche by accident. After working across industries like tech, education, and healthcare, she realized none of them truly excited her. Jewelry stood out because of its mix of fashion, storytelling, and creativity. Rather than guessing, she intentionally took in-house and freelance roles in the jewelry industry to build credibility before going all in. That vertical focus paid off. By committing to a specific industry, Laryssa was able to build a strong referral network, speak at trade shows, and create highly targeted content that drove inbound leads. But after nine years in the jewelry space, she noticed that the biggest results she delivered for clients consistently came from email marketing. What started as one service among many became the clear driver of ROI. The shift from a vertical niche (jewelry) to a horizontal specialization (email and SMS marketing) wasn’t a sudden pivot. It was a response to real performance data. Stronger results, clearer processes, and deeper expertise made the decision feel natural. Your niche should serve your strengths, not trap you in yesterday’s model. Why Inbound Alone Is No Longer Enough For most of Joy Joya’s history, inbound marketing did the heavy lifting. Content, SEO, YouTube, and a podcast tailored to the jewelry industry created steady deal flow without much outbound effort. That’s one of the biggest benefits of vertical focus: you can dominate a small pond with the right content and relationships. But the market shifted. Search behavior changed. Social algorithms changed and AI entered the picture. Laryssa realized that relying solely on inbound was no longer enough. Over the past year or two, she intentionally started : cold email, cold calling, LinkedIn outreach, and systems that allowed her team to support those efforts. The key insight here isn’t that inbound is dead, it’s that inbound alone is risky. Agencies that survived and grew were willing to adapt their acquisition mix, even when it meant doing uncomfortable things. The Hard Question Every Agency Owner Faces Adapting isn’t just about strategy. You should also ask yourself whether you want to do what’s required next. New platforms, new sales motions, and new expectations can trigger an existential crisis for long-time owners. You don’t have to love every part of running an agency, but you do need the discipline to face the things you’d rather avoid. The solution isn’t grinding forever but rather , delegating it, or removing it altogether. Agency owners should get comfortable with change as a necessary part of running an agency. The hard part is that change often targets the things you already tolerate but don’t love. That’s why many agencies stall. The owners don’t hate their situation enough to change it but they don’t love it enough to stay fully committed either. When Personal Brand Creates Attention But Not Conversions As AI and recommendation engines influence buying decisions, developing a personal brand becomes vital when it comes to being recommended by these tools. People want to work with leaders whose beliefs, values, and perspectives they understand. That’s why podcasts, long-form content, and consistent points of view matter more than ever. In her case, Laryssa shared an unexpected challenge after developing her personal brand. She had and brand identity that many people understood her perspective but didn’t fully understand what her agency actually did. In some cases, prospects were more familiar with the brand name than the services behind it. The lesson for agency owners is balance. Thought leadership without clear offers creates attention without conversion. As platforms evolve, it’s not enough to educate—you need to connect that education to the right services, for the right audience, at the right time. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39388430

If AI Can Do the Work Faster, What Should Agencies Be Selling? With Eric Weidner | Ep #871 01/14/2026

If AI Can Do the Work Faster, What Should Agencies Be Selling? With Eric Weidner | Ep #871 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? If AI can now write, design, and build faster than your team, what does a profitable agency actually sell next? Most agency owners have experienced a weird mix of excitement and anxiety about AI. On the surface, it feels like everything is changing overnight, including websites, content, search, development, and even how clients perceive value. Underneath that panic, though, there’s a calmer truth: the fundamentals of running a great agency haven’t changed at all. The tools have. Today’s featured guest talks candidly about where AI actually helps agencies, where it’s wildly overhyped, and why agency owners who focus on systems, relationships, and leverage will win while everyone else burns out chasing shiny tools. Eric Weidner is the founder of , a digital agency specializing in websites and custom applications for pharmaceutical companies and pharma marketing agencies. With a background that stretches back to the early days of the web, Eric has built, rebuilt, and adapted his agency multiple times, and today he’s deep in the practical application of AI for real agency work, not just demos and hype. In this episode, we’ll discuss: How agencies are positioned to win with AI. Avoid creating client disappointment with incorrect use of AI. The brutal reality for agencies that rely on “set it and forget it” marketing. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. The Road to Becoming a Long-Term Agency Operator Eric fell into web development in the mid-90s while working as a secretary administrator at a law firm in San Francisco. Exposure to early tech including computer networks, WordPerfect, XML, and eventually HTML turned into freelance work. That freelance work led to clients and eventually an agency. His story mirrors how most agencies actually begin, with skill, opportunity, and momentum. The problem is that what gets you started is rarely what helps you scale. Eric’s longevity comes from his willingness to evolve without abandoning the fundamentals that keep agencies profitable. And that’s the trap many agency owners fall into today: assuming AI is a complete reset instead of a force multiplier for the right business model. Why AI Feels Like a Career Defining Moment for Agencies When ChatGPT first came out, Eric didn’t treat it like a novelty. He went all in because, for the first time in years, the intellectual challenge of building and running an agency felt exciting again. For a lot of seasoned agency owners, the business had become… static. Same services. Same delivery challenges. Same team bottlenecks. AI cracked that open. Suddenly, there were new problems to solve, new efficiencies to unlock, and new ways to multiply output without multiplying headcount. Ai introduced a chance to rethink how work gets done, how fast ideas move, and how agencies create leverage, not just more work. Eric has no blind optimism when it comes to AI. It isn’t magic, and it’s not ready to replace strategic thinking. But it is a force multiplier for agencies that understand systems. That’s the opportunity most agencies are missing. Instead of asking, “How do we sell AI to clients?” the smarter question is: “How do we—then package that advantage?” Agencies that do this become faster, leaner, and more profitable. Agencies that don’t end up stuck in fulfillment, competing on price, and drowning in tools they don’t fully understand. AI Is Powerful But It Still Needs a Human Brain AI tools can feel like a superpower, especially if you’ve never loved certain parts of your job. Writing, development, ideation, and prototyping are faster than ever. But there’s a catch. AI works best at the first pass. Ask it to build a landing page, mock up a system, or outline functionality, and it shines. Ask it to make nuanced, detailed changes across a complex system, and it starts to fall apart. In a sense, AI is like a drunk intern—brilliant on the first assignment, frustrating when you ask for revisions. For agency owners, this matters because selling AI as a silver bullet is a fast way to create client disappointment. The agencies that win will be the ones who understand where AI increases leverage and where human judgment still matters. Websites, Search, and the Shift Nobody’s Talking About One of the most important things to understand if you’re building a website nowadays is that we’re not building websites just for humans anymore. As AI-driven search becomes more dominant, users don’t always need to click through to a site to get answers. That changes how content, SEO, and authority work. Eric points to GEO—Generative Engine Optimization—as , where freshness, clarity, and structured authority matter more than volume. This creates a brutal reality for agencies that rely on “set it and forget it” marketing. To stay visible, brands must publish consistently. Content often needs to be less than 90 days old to stay relevant in AI-driven systems. For agency owners already stuck in fulfillment, this is a warning sign. More services, more content, more tools without better systems just equals faster burnout. Content Alone Isn’t Enough. Your Voice Builds Trust With AI flooding the internet with content, —not less. People don’t just consume content, they build relationships with voices they trust. That’s why podcasts, communities, and consistent thought leadership outperform random marketing tactics. When people hear you think out loud for years, trust compounds. In an AI-saturated world, that human connection becomes the advantage. Or as Jason puts it: when agency owners say they need more leads, the answer is often boring but effective. Build a platform. Build trust. Stay visible. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39388320

What It Takes to Scale a 700-Person Agency Without Losing Your Mind (or Margin) with Nital Shah | Ep #870 01/11/2026

What It Takes to Scale a 700-Person Agency Without Losing Your Mind (or Margin) with Nital Shah | Ep #870 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? How big do you actually want your agency to become? Does the idea of running a massive team sound exciting or completely exhausting? For many agency owners, scaling feels less like growth and more like trading freedom for complexity. Scaling an agency isn’t about hustle. It’s about surviving the moments that almost break you, building systems that actually work, and accepting that what got you here won’t get you there. Today’s featured guest understands that running a big agency is about structure and leadership. He’s grown a global agency to 700 people without losing profitability, sanity, or culture and now he’ll unpack the hard-earned lessons that most agency owners don’t think about until it’s too late. Nital Shah is the co-founder of , a full-service, lifecycle digital agency headquartered in India, with operations supporting global brands and agencies across multiple geographies. Today, Nital leads a 700-person organization focused on marketing operations, delivery excellence, and scalable systems for agencies around the world. Having experienced both sides of the agency equation, client-side pressure and operational scale, Nital brings a grounded, operator-first perspective to growth, profitability, and leadership. In this episode, we’ll discuss: An early principle: Profit should be intentional. Achieving operational excellence at scale. Structuring scale to make it manageable. Why alignment beats micromanagement. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. The Wake-Up Call: COVID, Cash Flow, and Retainers Like many agencies, Nital’s biggest inflection point came during COVID. Before the disruption, the agency was focused heavily on top-line revenue rather than predictable recurring income. When 40 percent of revenue disappeared almost overnight, the weakness in that model became painfully obvious. Luckily, the agency’s consistent focus on profit from day one helped them overcome this ordeal. However, it changed Nital’s perspective on retainers and helped him understand that, without retainers, any similar unexpected bump in the road could destroy the agency. The agency had enough cash flow to survive the shock and rebuild and the lesson was clear: at scale, a large team is fragile. Retainers aren’t just about stability; they are about survival. The other advantage that helped soften the blow was diversification. By spreading clients across industries and geographies, the agency avoided being wiped out by a single market downturn. When one region slowed, others carried the load. That balance didn’t eliminate pain, but it reduced risk in a way most agencies underestimate until they feel it firsthand. Profit Is Not an Afterthought One of the most important principles Nital and his co-founder agreed on early was: . It’s not something you hope shows up at the end of the year. It’s something you design into the business. That mindset shapes everything from service selection to client qualification. The agency actively avoids hyper-competitive, race-to-the-bottom services and continually evolves its offerings as markets become saturated. When a service becomes unprofitable, they pivot. When a client isn’t aligned or drains margin, they say no. Profit isn’t just about owner income. It funds experimentation, innovation, and future growth. Without margin, you can’t test new services, pivot when the market shifts, or invest in better systems. You just stay busy. And busy is often the enemy of profitable. Operational Excellence at Scale Running a 700-person agency isn’t about heroics but about process. Nital is clear that consistent, documented, and enforced workflows are what reduce mistakes, rework, and delivery friction. The agency is structured into service-based business units, each with its own leadership and accountability. On top of that sits a customer success layer that ensures delivery stays aligned with expectations. Everyone is trained on defined protocols, and those protocols exist to protect quality, not bureaucracy. When processes are clear and followed, the probability of hitting client outcomes increases. That reduces rework, lowers internal stress, and improves margins. In a people-driven business, operational discipline is what turns chaos into leverage. Alignment Beats Micromanagement One of the hardest challenges for Nital’s agency came after rapid post-COVID growth, when the team doubled in size and remote work became the norm. Processes broke, alignment slipped, and as a result, communication suffered. The turning point came with adopting the Scaling Up framework by Vern Harnish. This framework, aimed at businesses ready to scale in a more structured manner, forced clarity across four areas: people, strategy, execution, and cash. More importantly, it created alignment from leadership all the way down to individual contributors. Every team member understands how their work connects to departmental goals, quarterly priorities, and long-term vision. When people understand the why behind the process, ownership replaces micromanagement. Accountability becomes cultural, not enforced. Leadership, Tough Calls, and A-Players When it comes to mistakes in team alignment, Nital openly acknowledges that the team that gets you to one stage may not be the team that gets you to the next. That realization isn’t easy, especially when loyalty and shared history are involved. But over the last two years Nital has embraced the fact that growth demands adaptability. The agency now prioritizes agility, learning speed, and ownership. When someone can’t evolve with the business, they are given time, feedback, and support, but the standard doesn’t change. You don’t win championships by protecting weak links. You win by putting the best players on the field while still treating people with respect and empathy. It’s not cold. It’s responsible leadership. Structuring Scale So It’s Manageable When Nital decided to go back to India and start an agency, his mentor back in Australia offered him the chance to run their offshore center. From there, he started supporting other agencies in several countries and expanded his team to where they are now. Seven hundred people . Instead of one massive organization, the agency operates as multiple business units, each capped around 100 to 150 people and run as its own P&L. This turns an impossible leadership problem into a manageable one. Leaders focus on coaching their direct reports, not managing hundreds of individuals. Each layer carries responsibility downward, creating clarity instead of bottlenecks. As Nital points out, no founder manages 700 people directly. You manage your leadership team. And if that team is strong, aligned, and accountable, scale becomes less scary and far more sustainable. The Future: AI, Change, and Opportunity Despite the uncertainty surrounding AI and marketing technology, Nital is optimistic. The pace of change has leveled the playing field. Years of experience no longer guarantee an advantage. Everyone is adapting at the same time. For smaller agencies, this creates opportunity. They can adopt tools and workflows faster than large organizations. For larger agencies, the challenge is moving faster without breaking structure. Either way, the shift toward complex marketing technology orchestration opens doors for agencies willing to master it. For him, the future belongs to agencies that can adapt, systemize, and evolve without clinging to what used to work. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39388125

How to Survive Google Updates, AI Disruption, and Scale a Local SEO Agency with Joy Hawkins | Ep #869 01/07/2026

How to Survive Google Updates, AI Disruption, and Scale a Local SEO Agency with Joy Hawkins | Ep #869 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Do you feel constantly worried about shrinking organic visibility, heavier ad pressure, and constant change? Running an agency has never been a straight line. Platforms change, algorithms shift, and what worked five years ago can quietly stop working overnight. Organic visibility is shrinking, ads are getting more expensive, and uncertainty feels constant. Today’s featured guest knows that reality and will share her journey from agency employee to founder of a 43-person local SEO agency, along with her honest perspective on Google, AI, remote teams, and why growing bigger can actually create more freedom and impact when done for the right reasons. Joy Hawkins is the founder and owner of , a specialized local SEO agency focused on helping businesses rank on Google Maps and local search results. She has been working in the SEO industry since 2006 and is widely known for her deep understanding of how Google’s algorithm works, especially in local search. Sterling Sky is a fully remote agency with team members spread across Canada and the United States. What started as a small consulting experiment has grown into a 43-person team over eight years. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Google, AI, and the future of local SEO Why SEO agencies must diversify to survive Building a fully remote team. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. From Agency Employee to Founder of a Local SEO Agency After more than a decade inside agencies, Joy realized she was more interested in how systems worked than in selling them. When disagreements about services and sales responsibilities reached a breaking point, she decided to try consulting (fully prepared to dip into savings and return to a job if needed). Clients came faster than expected. Eight years later, that experiment has grown into a 43-person remote agency. Google, AI, and the Future of Local SEO One of the biggest challenges Joy sees in the industry right now is . Features are constantly being swapped out, organic real estate is shrinking, and small businesses are feeling the impact more than ever. While agencies can usually adapt, clients often struggle because Google still represents such a large percentage of their lead flow. A major concern Joy sees is how Google is pushing more ads and limiting organic exposure, especially in local results. On mobile devices, users are now seeing local service ads dominate the top of the screen, followed by AI-driven local results that are shrinking from three listings down to one in some cases. For businesses that used to rely on being second or third in the map pack, this shift can mean a dramatic drop in calls almost overnight. Despite the fear around AI, Joy does not believe Google is going anywhere. As she points out, Google’s real advantage is data. Reviews, location history, calls, visits, and behavior all live inside Google Maps. That depth of information is something other platforms struggle to match. Local SEO is still viable, but it is no longer free traffic in the way many business owners became used to. The bigger lesson is not about Google itself, but about dependency. When an agency or a business relies too heavily on one channel, any change can feel catastrophic. The agencies that struggle the most right now tend to be those built around rigid, cookie-cutter systems that cannot flex with the landscape. Why SEO Agencies Must Diversify to Survive Agency owners who want time to adapt should keep in mind it’s always better to have an outbound strategy, an inbound strategy, and partnerships that you can rely on. If all your business comes from one channel and that channel changes, you are forced into reaction mode. The opportunity here is for agencies to guide clients toward broader strategies. That might include paid ads, partnerships, or even old school tactics like direct mail and local sponsorships. The exact tactic matters less than the mindset. Businesses need multiple levers to pull so they are not held hostage by one platform’s decisions. For instance, right now everyone’s scrambling to adopt AI in their processes, services, and more. But you should also try to understand the economics behind AI and advertising. The massive data centers, energy consumption, and infrastructure costs mean that today’s low prices will not last forever. Platforms are investing heavily now with the expectation that monetization will follow. For agency owners, this reinforces the importance of pricing correctly, setting expectations with clients, and building offers that account for rising costs and shrinking organic margins. Building a Fully Remote Agency Joy’s agency started more as a practical decision than a remote-first experiment. After years of working from home she saw no reason to take on the overhead of an office. The cost savings mattered early on, but . Without a commute, Joy could better balance work and family life. That same benefit extended to her team. Many of her early hires were former coworkers from an agency that later shut down, people she already trusted and respected. Since they were geographically spread out, an office would have created unnecessary friction. Expanding into the United States was also a strategic move. Joy wanted access to a larger talent pool so she could be extremely selective about who she hired. Being remote made it possible to hire people who were already passionate about local SEO instead of settling for whoever happened to live nearby. Culture, Connection, and Team Building at Scale One of the risks of running a remote agency is losing human connection. Joy is very intentional about avoiding that. While informal meetups happen more often in Canada, the entire team gets together once a year for an in person retreat. The goal of these retreats is mostly relationship building. Joy genuinely likes the people she works with and considers many of them friends. She believes that strong relationships create trust, better communication, and a healthier work environment overall. Joy sees firsthand how flexible work, reasonable boundaries, and a supportive environment can be life changing for employees who came from toxic workplaces. That impact has become a meaningful part of why she continues to grow the agency. Why Scaling the Agency Became a Mission When she first started her agency, Joy wanted a small team. Ten people or fewer. . That vision changed a few years in, and the reason surprised her. Around two years in, her agency began supporting a charity in Uganda, and the more she built that relationship, the more Joy saw how far a single dollar could stretch there compared to North America. Visiting in person made the impact real. She realized that by growing the agency, she could dramatically increase the good they could do through that partnership. The same realization applied to her team. As the agency grew, Joy saw how stable, flexible work improved her employees’ lives. That sense of responsibility and opportunity shifted her perspective as she figured out her purpose. Now growth was no longer about ego or scale for its own sake. It became a way to create more impact both inside and outside the business. Leadership, Delegation, and Hiring for Your Weaknesses Agency owners who wish to keep their businesses small are often thinking about the nightmare that running a big agency can be. They imagine that the headaches they deal with at ten employees will just double if the team doubles. However, this was never the case for Joy. When she thinks about overworking she thinks about her time working for others. This is probably because Joy has always been very clear about what she does not enjoy. Accounting, taxes, and people management are high on the list, and instead of forcing herself to become good at everything, she hired people who genuinely enjoy those areas. A strong accountant removed massive mental load early on and hiring leadership team members who thrive on managing people allowed Joy to focus on strategy and innovation. She believes this is one of the biggest unlocks for agency owners who feel trapped. Delegation is not about offloading busywork. It is about trusting capable people to own outcomes. Joy prefers hiring experienced professionals over entry level talent because she does not want to micromanage. Her expectations are high, but so is her respect for her team’s autonomy. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39388210

How to Choose the Right Agency Niche and Stick With It Through Uncertainty with Filip Lugovic | Ep #868 01/04/2026

How to Choose the Right Agency Niche and Stick With It Through Uncertainty with Filip Lugovic | Ep #868 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Starting with a clearly defined niche can make all the difference when you’re landing your first clients and deeply understanding that niche can carry you through the toughest seasons of agency life. Today’s featured guest built his agency on exactly that foundation. Before launching his firm, he spent years working as a consultant for governments, UN agencies, and the European Commission. Along the way, he identified a clear gap in the market. That expertise proved invaluable during the pandemic. While uncertainty hit many agencies hard, he trusted his understanding of the space and chose to weather the slow months, confident the work would return. His patience paid off as demand surged later in the year. He’ll share the lessons learned from more than 20 years of building and running a thriving niche agency in one of the most political and complex markets in the world—and why focus, patience, and deep domain knowledge remain his greatest competitive advantages. Filip Lugovic is the co-founder and CEO of , an EU-focused digital communications agency based in Brussels. For the last 20 years, he’s lived in the middle of the “Brussels bubble,” where organizations, trade groups, and companies fight for attention from the European Commission, Parliament, and Council. His agency sits at the intersection of public affairs + digital communications, serving organizations trying to influence policies that impact nearly half a billion people across Europe. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Identifying and owning a highly specific niche. Building a client list with the power of low-hanging fruit. Getting their best quarter during COVID. Keeping a creative team inspired during slow cycles. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. From Door-to-Door Sales to the EU Policy Bubble Before he ever pitched a digital campaign, Filip was strangers’ knocking on doors in Southern California selling heart-shaped pillows and screwdrivers with built-in flashlights. Not exactly glamorous, but it taught him the skill most agency owners run from: sales. When he landed in Brussels in 2005, he fell into a job selling ads for EU Observer, one of the leading political publications at the time. His clients were the same organizations trying to get in front of policymakers. Over the next decade, he built a deep network and a knack for relationship-based selling. Eventually, he left to consult on his own, but by 2017, he hit the same wall most consultants do: “I’m making money… but it all goes to someone else.” A lunch with his current business partner (a seasoned communicator who had served as spokesperson for governments, UN agencies, and the European Commission) led to a plan to build something together. Building a Niche Agency: Where Marketing Meets Lobbying Once they figured out their roles and what they brought to the partnership, Filip and his partner started making plans and realized something: Most agencies in Brussels fell into one of two buckets: Lobbying firms who knew politics but didn’t understand digital. Marketing agencies who knew digital but didn’t understand politics. No one sat in the middle. So they built an agency that merged both worlds, pairing policy context with high-quality digital production. At the time, it was a hypothesis, and a risky one. . But they saw the gap and took it. Landing the First Clients by Leveraging Existing Relationships Filip is no stranger to knocking on doors to sell a product, and he would have for his agency. However, this wasn’t the right environment for that, so when it came time to start looking for clients, he relied on his network. Filip’s approach to sales was never transactional and he very much enjoyed building lasting relationships. This is something many agency owners overcomplicate. Filip’s first step wasn’t SEO, funnels, or paid ads. It was: “Let me call every single person I already know and ask them to grab a coffee.” That alone got him his first tiny clients. It wasn’t a big account. Five hundred euros for hours of work, and zero profit. But it built the early case studies they needed. Most agencies try to skip this part. They want the big brand logo first. But every agency you admire started by leveraging relationships and building proof. Pro tip: You should always continue to revisit these relationships. Reach out to that client and buy them a coffee. This is the low-hanging fruit that can get your agency out of a tough spot. If you’re not doing this, you’re leaving money on the table. How Deep Market Knowledge Helps in Hard Times By January 2020, Filip’s agency was growing at a healthy pace, had a new office and a seven-person team. Their contracts froze, clients stopped paying, and their pipeline evaporated. Meanwhile, the agency had fixed expenses and a growing team relying on them. Most agencies would’ve cut staff and hoped to survive. Filip didn’t. Luckily, he understood his market: EU organizations operate on annual budgets. If they don’t spend it, they lose it the following year. So he and his partner made the hard call: No salaries for themselves (they relied on their wives for a while). Keep the team. Use that time to aggressively market. Their bet paid off and by Q4, every organization that couldn’t run events was suddenly scrambling for digital support. Their best quarter ever happened during one of the scariest years on record. It was the foundation of everything that came afterwards. Keeping the Team Inspired During Slow Cycles How do you keep a creative team motivated when client work stops? Filip’s answer: “Let them create whatever they want.” There were no clients nitpicking colors or people demanding designers to make the logo bigger. It was a rare opportunity for pure, unfiltered creative expression. The team remembers that period as one of the most enjoyable times in the agency’s history, despite the financial uncertainty. Why Big Name Clients Don’t Always Make the Best Case Studies Most agency owners are probably familiar with this scenario: A famous brand comes in with big expectations and a big budget, and you brush off early concerns thinking their reputation would suffice to make the use of their case story It happened to Filip and, unfortunately, after dismissing those concerns, the client rewrote everything and destroyed the design. Now they couldn’t even put it on their website. Filip laughs about this now, because it still happens. Sometimes the smallest project gives you the best case study. Sometimes the becomes a “please-don’t-put-our-name-on-that” situation. Just show the work you’re proud of, not just the work you were paid for. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39387990

What 2025 Taught Us: Top Agency Owner Interviews of the Year | Ep #867 12/31/2025

What 2025 Taught Us: Top Agency Owner Interviews of the Year | Ep #867 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? What a year. I sat down with over 100 incredible agency owners—and the insights were unreal. From million-dollar breakthroughs to hard-earned lessons, these founders brought the real talk. In this special year-end episode, I’m sharing the top 5 interviews that stood out most. To everyone who tuned in, shared an episode, or took action from something they heard—thank you. This show is for you, and because of you. Here’s to a smarter, stronger, more scalable 2026. Let’s go. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. AI, Efficiency & the Future of Digital Agencies | with Manish Dudharejia (E2M Solutions) If you’re running a digital agency and wondering how the hell you’re supposed to keep up with AI, automation, and shifting client expectations—this one’s for you. Jason sits down with Manish Dudharejia, founder of , one of the largest white-label partners for agencies, to break down where the real opportunities are—and what’s about to get wiped out. Spoiler: Agencies that don’t embrace efficiency will get eaten alive. Whether you’re stuck in fulfillment hell or just trying to stay 3 steps ahead, this is a must-watch if you want to grow smarter, not grind harder. From Freelancer to CEO: How Kriston Sellier Built a Scalable, Human-Centered Agency Kriston Sellier, Founder of Id8, shares how she broke free from the freelancer grind, stopped being held hostage by a single client, and transformed into a confident CEO with systems, a team, and a business that no longer revolved around her. We dig into the moment she realized she wasn’t really running a business and how hiring a consultant changed everything (and brought in 25 new clients) This isn’t fluff. It’s the real path from chaos to clarity—one that too many agency owners skip because they’re stuck reacting. From $1M to $40M: How Chris Dreyer Scaled His SEO Agency with One Counterintuitive Strategy If you're an agency owner stuck managing chaos, wondering how the hell to grow without everything breaking—this is your blueprint. I sat down with Chris Dreyer, CEO of Rankings.io, who scaled his agency from barely breaking 7 figures to nearing $40 million in pure service revenue. And no, it wasn’t because of some sexy funnel or overnight hack. It was because he doubled down on relationships. Favorite line from Chris: "You mean to tell me it's not worth $500 to go shake hands with a $125K client?" This isn’t theory. It’s what the top 1% of agencies are actually doing—and it’s probably not what you’re doing right now. How to Build an Agency Team That Sticks & Clients Who Actually Respect You | Colin Hetherington I sat down with Colin Hetherington, founder of Dublin’s Common Good and co-founder of Zoo Digital (which scaled to $3M+ with less than 5% turnover). Colin’s the real deal—he’s built agencies people love working at and clients want to stay with. You’ll hear how Colin combined strategy, creativity, and technical execution to create an agency that stood out—and why focusing on team trust and clarity made all the difference. Whether you're scaling or starting fresh, there’s gold in this conversation on how to lead without burning out. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39447330

Should You Buy Another Marketing Agency? Lessons from 5 Acquisition Deals with Kimberly Eberl | Ep #866 12/28/2025

Should You Buy Another Marketing Agency? Lessons from 5 Acquisition Deals with Kimberly Eberl | Ep #866 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? Are you thinking about expanding your agency through acquisitions? Buying another firm can be one of the fastest ways to scale, but only if you choose the right partners and nail the cultural fit. Otherwise, growth can quickly turn into chaos. Today’s featured guest has been through five acquisitions, each one teaching her a different (and sometimes painful) lesson about what truly makes a merger succeed. In this episode, she opens up about her biggest acquisition missteps, the cultural mismatches that nearly derailed integrations, forecasting errors she didn’t see coming, and the identity challenges that arise when two teams collide. Kimberly Eberl is the Founder and CEO of , a full service marketing and communications shop with offices in Chicago, Cincinnati, and Nashville. While the agency offers everything from creative to content, it is unusually strong in public relations with roughly 20 PR pros on staff. Kimberly has completed five acquisitions, navigated the cultural and financial highs and lows of M&A, and grown Motion into one of the most respected independent agencies in the Chicago market. In this episode, we’ll discuss: When acquisitions help agencies scale—and when they backfire. Lessons learned from five agency acquisitions. Why agency owners often misjudge valuation and earnouts. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. From Fired Account Director to Agency Founder Kimberly jokes that she is one of those founders who got fired into entrepreneurship. At her previous agency, the account director role was undefined and impossible to succeed in. The revolving door should have been a clue. She lasted a year before being let go and scrambling to figure out her next move. With no grand plan, she fell into freelancing in 2006. The economy was healthy. The demand came fast. And pretty quickly she reached that moment every accidental agency owner hits. Either say no to work or hire help. She chose to hire. That early decision set the tone for the next decade. Instead of trying to do it all herself, she leaned into building a team and letting the business grow past her personal capacity. Outgrowing a Single-Service Model: Moving Beyond One Specialty Kimberly started as a PR pro. That focus worked for a while, but eventually she noticed how much money she was leaving on the table. Clients wanted websites, creative, content, and she was constantly referring the work away. The big shift happened when she decided to expand beyond PR and bring more capabilities in-house. This meant hiring outside her comfort zone and learning how to oversee work she could not personally do. That decision opened the door to real growth. Many agency owners get stuck right there. They stay in their one specialty because it is safe. Kimberly pushed through that discomfort and built a service mix clients actually wanted. The Reality of Acquiring Another Agency: Lessons from 5 Acquisitions Kimberly opted to . So far, she has completed five and every one had a different lesson. Her first major acquisition was bold. She bought an agency twice the size of her own. Financially and emotionally, it was a lot. Looking back, she admits she may not do a deal that large again, especially in a specialty she did not personally understand. But she also learned that size does not determine complexity. A one-person agency with contractors had just as many integration headaches as a larger shop. What mattered most was agency culture. Some deals looked perfect on paper but fell apart because the values, expectations, and behaviors did not align. One deal in particular was financially great and culturally awful. She kept one client from that acquisition. Another deal was financially terrible but culturally perfect. Years later, most of those staff members are still with her. Her biggest warning: never ignore cultural red flags during the courting phase. Take time to hang out with the sellers, how they operate, and experience their company’s culture. Go to dinner, Travel together. You’ll notice small behaviors (snapping over minor problems, chronic lateness, lack of transparency) that won’t disappear after the contract is signed. Valuation Mistakes That Kill Good Deals Kimberly also dove into how she approaches valuations and why so many sellers get this part wrong. She focuses on future performance, realistic forecasts, and removing costs that will not continue after the sale. She also pushes back on inflated projections. If an owner claims revenue will double, the earnout should reflect that. Big promises are fine, but they should come with big accountability. One agency she walked away from wanted a valuation equal to twice their gross revenue. They were using cash-based accounting and ignoring profitability. It was an immediate red flag. Kimberly’s advice to owners is simple. even if you never plan to sell. Get your financials clean. Use accrual accounting. And be realistic about your numbers. Leadership, Loyalty, and the Hardest Skill — Letting Go As the agency scaled, leadership challenges became just as complex as financial ones. Kimberly admits she is confused about why she is the largest woman-owned agency in Chicago at only seventy people. She is proud of the title, but she wonders why more women are not reaching similar scale. There are no differences in capability, but many female founders still hit a ceiling often tied to loyalty, delegation, or difficulty letting people go. Some owners, especially women, and struggle to make hard decisions around performance. She admitted she has been loyal to a fault at times and is working on finding a healthy balance. Agencies function more like all star sports teams. The roster changes every year. People get promoted, moved, or sometimes released. That does not mean you failed. It means you are adapting so the team as a whole can win. Kimberly is even working on building hobbies outside her agency because she noticed how much of her identity was tied to work. It is a relatable struggle for founders who have poured years into their companies. AI Changes the Work, Not the Need for Agencies Let’s be clear, agencies are not going away because of AI. Kimberly certainly doesn’t believe that. She treats AI like an intern. Helpful. Fast. But still needing quality control, creativity, and leadership. Clients still want real relationships. They want someone who understands context and nuance. Agencies serving tech-savvy individuals will feel churn from AI, but agencies serving plumbers, service-based businesses, and non marketers will be fine. These clients want to stay in their lane and hire experts for everything else. Marketing evolves, but agencies survive because the business model adapts. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39387100

How to Keep an Agency Partnership from Blowing Up with Andy Crestodina | Ep #865 12/24/2025

How to Keep an Agency Partnership from Blowing Up with Andy Crestodina | Ep #865 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? What do you do when a business partnership fails? Do you try to engineer the perfect agreement so the exit is clean, or focus on alignment long before anyone signs anything? The truth is, most agency partnerships fail because owners rush into them without slowing down to see the cracks. Preparing for the worst is not pessimistic. It is how you protect the business you are trying to build. Today’s featured guest has gone through failed starts, broken agency partnerships, and overcommitting his time as the owner for fear of losing opportunities. He’ll unpack 25 years of wins, mistakes, and hard earned clarity, from building his agency and how the biggest breakthroughs came from leadership shifts rather than marketing tactics. Andy Crestodina is the co founder of , a Chicago based web development and optimization agency approaching its 25th year in business. Orbit has grown to a team of fifty five and more than eight million in annual revenue. Andy is also one of the most respected voices in content marketing, with millions of readers, hundreds of speaking engagements each year, and a reputation for teaching real strategy instead of recycled tactics. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Slow, organic for consistent agency growth. What a failed agency partnership can cost you. The hire that gives an agency founder their time back. Learning when “yes” becomes the problem. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How Slow, Organic Growth Built a 25-Year Agency Andy was working as an IT recruiter in the nineties and found himself bored at his day job. He didn’t get to build anything in that position and he had a lot of ideation urging him to do something else. Luckily, the internet offered him that chance. He could build a website and channel his creative energy through that side project. But could he do it full time? He had no resume and no portfolio to present to a potential employer. He realized it was easier to get a client to take a chance on him than it was to convince an employer to hire him. So he and a high school friend started building sites. The first partnership failed fast and then the second attempt grew slowly, quietly, and steadily for 25 years. . It was content. Consistent publishing, useful insights, and a commitment to organic channels long before that became mainstream advice. When Agency Partnerships Go Wrong and What It Really Costs There are many stories of successful partnerships in the agency world, but overall the disaster stories are much more common. As Jason says, you either know the bad partner or you are the bad partner. Andy lived through one of the toughest versions of that story. He had three partners for a while. One of them ran an unprofitable department. Responsibilities were unclear. Values were not aligned. And when it came time to clean up the mess, a poorly written shareholder agreement became a bigger problem than the partner himself. Andy had to mortgage his home and personally . The agreement used the wrong valuation formula. The partner dragged his feet and what should have been a difficult but clean process turned into a long, expensive, emotionally draining separation. Looking back, Andy says something most founders never admit. A handshake would have been better than the shareholder agreement they had. The real mistakes came earlier: saying yes to a partner who did not share the same values, not slowing down long enough to evaluate the deal, and being hungry for growth and ignoring misalignment. The Leadership Hire That Gave the Founder His Time Back Around this time of misalignment between partners was when a long time client turned management consultant stepped in. He saw tension inside the partner group, so he moved to do a 360 review and surfaced the problems that no one wanted to say out loud. Andy was quick to spot that he would be a great addition to the agency, and so eventually, he became the CEO. That single hire changed everything. Andy was doing all the sales and marketing. Meetings all day. Proposals all night. Burning energy on tasks someone else should have owned years earlier. , he built systems, built a sales process, hired strategists to handle qualification and scoping. Suddenly Andy had 20 hours a week of his life back. He poured that time into content and went right into work. He doubled publishing frequency, launched a conference, wrote a book, held monthly live events, shot videos. The brand exploded. Their reach multiplied. The inbound engine went from effective to unstoppable. This is the founder shift so many agency owners avoid. Letting go. Delegating the work that drains you. Investing your best energy into the work that grows the company, not the work that maintains it. Saying Yes, Saying No, and Protecting Your Energy Andy admits he still overcommits. He still says yes to speaking engagements because he loves the stage and it generates leads, even though the constant travel wears him down. This is something many agency owners have to face. You may want the brand, speaking gigs and reach. But you also want to protect your energy so you do not turn into the hero who disappoints people when they finally meet you. At some point, you have to choose where your yes goes. Andy chose articles, newsletters, LinkedIn, webinars, a conference, and in person events. He let go of podcasting. He narrowed his focus so he could go deeper. That discipline, more than any tactic, is what keeps his inbound engine healthy 25 years later. The Tension Between Culture and Profit How do you balance loyalty to your team with the need for profit and EBITDA? Andy is still trying to figure this out. His team has an average tenure of eight years. Some team members have been there twenty. Andy cares deeply about them and their families. But agencies face moments when bonuses, salaries, utilization, and capacity collide. Where doing right by people and doing right for the business feel like competing priorities. There is no perfect answer. But there is a direction. Take care of your people first. Trust them to help you solve the profit problems. Fix leaks. Raise rates. Tighten scope. Operate like owners. And when the agency wins, let your team win with you. Culture breaks agencies faster than anything else. Profit can be fixed. Culture cannot be patched over. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39387055

When an Agency Merger Falls Apart: Lessons on Reinvention with Tom Snyder | Ep #864 12/21/2025

When an Agency Merger Falls Apart: Lessons on Reinvention with Tom Snyder | Ep #864 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? What would you do if the merger you believed would change everything suddenly collapsed? Agency owners often dream of the big exit: the acquisition, the payday, the validation. But if you’ve been in this industry long enough, you know the story rarely goes as planned. Today’s guest lived through the dot-com boom, a merger gone sideways, a rare “un-merger,” and multiple reinventions across three decades. Today’s featured guest is an agency owner who lived through the dot com boom, a merger gone sideways, an unmerger (a rare event), and multiple reinventions over three decades. He’ll talk about his journey and the lessons he’s gained in resilience, clarity, and what it means to build a business that lasts. Tom Snyder is the founder and CEO of , a Milwaukee-based agency that originally launched in 1996 under the name Website Solutions. He got his start back when tables ruled the web, Netscape Navigator was leading the browser war, and you had to explain to clients what the internet even was. Tom’s agency grew quickly through the dot com boom, became part of an early multi-agency rollup, unmerged after the dot com crash, and later rebuilt itself around strategic services, recurring revenue, and emerging technologies. Thirty years later, he has seen nearly every high and low this industry can deliver and has the scars and wisdom to match. In this episode, we’ll discuss: The roll up that seemed like a dream and the subsequent meltdown. The rare chance to unmerger. Learning to adapt to new technologies. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to to get started. The Early Days of the Web: A Front Row Seat to Digital History Tom got into websites before most people even understood what a web browser was. He recalls visiting a friend in 1995 who showed him a website for a local jeweler. The fact that someone in Milwaukee could suddenly sell jewelry to anyone in the world blew his mind. That spark soon became Website Solutions, a one-man shop in his duplex basement that grew into a million-dollar agency within three years. These early days were defined by scrappiness. There were no WordPress installs, no Mailchimp, no Shopify. Agencies wrote their own CMS platforms, email tools, and ecommerce systems. For years, Trivera worked on project-based engagements. Sell a website. Build it. Launch it. Then hunt for the next one. It created a revenue roller coaster that made it hard to grow. Then the breakthrough came when someone asked a simple question: Once they shifted the model, everything changed. Retainers gave them predictable cash flow, stability during downturns, and the ability to build deeper, longer-term partnerships. Inside the Dot-Com Boom and the Rollup That Promised Millions By the late nineties, agency rollups were happening everywhere. Big groups on the West Coast were buying smaller shops at high valuations, promising stock payouts that would multiply as the group grew. Tom’s agency was acquired by one of these rollups. : $1 million in stock with the expectation that it could balloon into ten million within a couple of years. For Tom, this was more than a payday. It felt like a way to secure better opportunities for his team. Higher salaries, better benefits, more resources. All the things agency owners often think a larger parent company can provide. But as the ink dried on the deal, the dot com crash hit. Internal battles erupted among the agency owners inside the rollup. Some wanted to scale fast and sell. Others were emotionally attached to their agencies and resisted change. As the economy collapsed, so did the plan. When an Agency Merger Falls Apart Tom describes the internal environment as chaos. Agencies within the rollup started blaming one another for the downturn. Some owners viewed Tom’s Midwest operation as a weak link and argued it was a mistake to acquire them. Then came the breaking point. At a Las Vegas meeting that was supposed to chart a path forward, Tom learned that . His wife, who served as CFO, would be dismissed. His team would report to another agency owner. This happened on September 10th. The next morning, as they sat in their hotel room trying to process what to do, the news broke that planes had hit the World Trade Center. The world changed, and so did their priorities. In that moment of clarity, they made the decision to walk away and unmerge. How a Rare Un-Merge Saved the Agency Unmerging from an agency rollup almost never happens. But because the rollup was already fracturing, the leadership was surprisingly open to it. They returned most of the shares, let Tom keep a small portion, and released the original agency name. From there, Tom and his wife rebuilt everything from scratch under a new identity. Although it felt like the right decision to make, they were still exiting what was still a financially stable operation to start from scratch, which was a scary but necessary step to take. They brainstormed names that felt Greek or Latin until they arrived at Trivera. The name itself was available only because the previous owner had just let the domain lapse. It felt like a small sign that starting over was the right move. This reset allowed Tom to build the agency the right way. No irrational exuberance, burn rates, or pressure to sell. Just strong culture, smart financial discipline, and an eye on durable business fundamentals. How Adapting to New Technology Helped Survive in Crisis After the dot com crash, new technologies created fresh opportunities. SEO, email marketing, mobile, and social opened new revenue streams that helped Trivera rebound each time the economy dipped. Tom noticed a pattern. Every downturn was followed by a brand new marketing wave that rewarded the agencies willing to embrace it early. One of the most pivotal moments came during the 2009 recession. The agency had lost clients, payroll was tight, and they needed a breakthrough. Everyone was asking about social media at the time, so Tom and his team built an event called Social Media University. They hustled for two months and ended up selling 400 tickets. The sales and sponsorship revenue kept their payroll alive and catapulted them into a new service category. Events like this do more than create revenue. They cement authority, give an agency a story in the market, and in Tom’s case, it opened doors to new clients and positioned them for the next evolution of the agency. Letting Go of Comparison to Stay Focused on the Journey Despite the wins, Tom admits there were years he compared his agency to others and wondered why they scaled or sold faster, especially some that got the tools from his very social media event. It is easy to feel behind when you see competitors raising money, getting acquired, or shouting big revenue numbers. However, there’s very little one can actually know about other agency’s purchase deals. These stories are incomplete. You never know what the real terms were. You never know the headaches behind the scenes. And you definitely never know if they actually took money home. Success in the agency world is rarely a straight line. It is more often a messy, winding path filled with reinventions, hard conversations, and moments when you question everything. So agency owners struggling and watching others reach new milestones should remind themselves that longevity comes from resilience, not a perfect upward curve. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39322695

SEO Is Over. AEO Is Here: How Agencies Stay Visible When AI Chooses the Answers with Kasim Aslam | Ep #863 12/17/2025

SEO Is Over. AEO Is Here: How Agencies Stay Visible When AI Chooses the Answers with Kasim Aslam | Ep #863 Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? As a user, do you still use search engines or have completely defaulted to AI? How will this shift reshape the agency world? How will ads work when people are only getting the one answer they need? Most agency owners are still treating SEO like it’s 2012 — optimizing keywords, buying backlinks, and praying to the Google gods. But search has already changed. People are asking AI for answers, not Googling for links. And if you want your agency or your personal brand to stay visible in this new era, the rules are completely different. Today’s featured guest will unpack the shift from SEO to AEO and why most businesses are invisible to AI without even realizing it. is one of the world’s leading voices on Answer Engine Optimization. He runs one of the largest AEO communities and leads a six person research team that has analyzed millions of AI citations to understand how large language models choose their sources. He is also the author of The AEO Blueprint and the founder of multiple companies, including a staffing agency, a mastermind, and AEO.co. Kasim has spent the past year deep in the trenches studying how AI crawlers gather, filter, and prioritize information. When it comes to AEO, nobody has more real data. In this episode, we’ll discuss: SEO is over. Understanding AEO. Why brands may get lost in LLMs. The quiet Google change that just changed everything in AI citations. The future of ads. Subscribe | | Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why SEO Is No Longer Enough: The Rise of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) To understand Answer Engine Optimization, we must first understand that, despite what some agencies may be saying,. Traditional search engines prioritize links. That is why entire industries exist around buying them. In the world of LLMs, backlinks barely matter. The number one ranking factor for AI citations is schema markup. And only 12.4% of websites have clean, validated schema. In other words, nearly 90% of brands are invisible to AI crawlers, regardless of how strong their SEO is. Schema isn’t just another optimization tactic. It is the visibility layer. It is the metadata that helps LLMs understand and categorize your content. If your schema is broken or missing, AI cannot reference you even if your content is excellent. This is the equivalent of having a beautiful storefront on a street no one can find. The second key is social mentions. In the same way SEO relied on links, AEO relies on people talking about you. For instance, a TikTok comment from someone in the agency industry saying Jason Swenk is their go-to agency guy counts as an authority signal. LLMs weigh these human mentions heavily. Finally, a lot of the nuances on AEO are changing every day, but Kasim has learned that the real key is building authority, long-form content. That along with clear schema and personal brand is the future of staying in the conversation. Why Personal Authority Beats Brand Authority in AI Search One of the biggest shifts Kasim highlights is that . A person can write a book, earn a PhD, share opinions, create content, develop mastery, and build authority in a way brands cannot. That means generalists are in trouble. If your expertise is scattered, AI won’t know how to classify you and won’t choose you as an authoritative answer. Meanwhile, someone who goes deep in a single topic becomes the preferred answer. It is a shift away from corporate brand authority and toward personal authority. Authority is not spread across a company anymore. It sits with people. Agencies that hide behind a brand name will lose visibility. Personal brands that plant a flag will win. For agency owners, this is huge. You do not need a bigger brand. You need clear expertise tied to a real person. This is exactly why Jason positions all the Agency Mastery content around him. Personalities thrive. Brands get lost. Where LLMs Get Their Data (and Why That Just Changed Overnight) Kasim’s research revealed that 21 percent of all AI citations once came from Reddit. YouTube followed at 18.8 percent. These platforms had deep context and raw human conversation, which LLMs love. . Twenty two days before the interview, Google cut off 90% of the internet from AI crawlers by reducing search results from hundreds to ten. Because LLMs rely on deep search results (not the top ten), reducing the searchable depth limits the information AI can access - removing platforms like Reddit from the AI training pipeline. AI tools rely heavily on these deeper results for nuance. By limiting access, Google essentially removed Reddit and other community based sites from the AI food chain. This change sent shockwaves through stock prices and visibility, and most people never noticed. Google is protecting the content needed to train AI because only two organizations truly own the global knowledge graph: Google and Amazon. OpenAI and the rest are crawling, not casing, the internet, which means they operate at a major disadvantage. Google is playing statecraft. And according to Kasim, Google will win the AI race. The Rise of Screenless Search and Voice-Driven Results According to Kasim, we are quickly moving toward a screenless world. Eric Schmidt has said the screenless future is years away, not decades. And the younger generation is already there. Over 55 percent of people under 25 use voice instead of text. Voice queries require different markup, structure, and formatting, and only 0.3 percent of websites use voice schema. Meanwhile, 65 percent of all searches end in zero clicks. People are asking, getting an answer, and moving on. That number does not even include the people who have stopped using search altogether and have already shifted to answer engines. This means your future website is not for your audience. It is for AI. Kasim is rebuilding his personal site in Notion because he believes CSS-light, simple, stripped down sites will perform better for AI ingestion. We are entering a world where content is created for machines first and humans last. How Google Gemini Is Rewriting the Future of Advertising Here is a wild data point. When Kasim set up new Chromebooks for his kids, he discovered the default search engine was not Google. It was Gemini. Google owns Chrome. Google owns Chromebooks. Yet they replaced its primary revenue driver on its own device with a product that currently has no ads. This tells you where the company is headed. They are rebuilding a new knowledge graph optimized for answer engines, while competitors still reply on the old search-oriented graph. And the future ad model will be nothing like what agencies grew up on. If one answer becomes the default experience, where do ads go? How are they shown? What are users willing to tolerate? And will businesses have to give away deep content to earn visibility the same way early YouTubers and bloggers did? These questions will reshape the entire lead generation ecosystem. Data, Moats, and the K-Shaped Economy The people who win in this new world are those who own data. Not tool access or workflows. Data. Custom GPTs, custom models, and proprietary knowledge bases become your moat. We are entering a K-shaped economy. Twenty percent of people and businesses will become unstoppable because their productivity will outpace demand. Eighty percent will fall to zero. The middle disappears. That means agency owners must adapt, evolve, and lean into deep expertise. Vibe coding (the rapid, exploratory use of AI tools) and no code platforms are accelerating this divide. Kasim’s team recreated a software that normally costs ten thousand a year in a weekend. Entire SaaS categories are about to be wiped out. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our . Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success. /episode/index/show/jasonswenk/id/39322265

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