Ep 113: A New Way of Life: How Love Disrupts Systems of Harm with Susan Burton and Pamela Marshall

I’m honored to bring you a special episode of the Mother’s Quest Podcast during Black History Month, featuring two extraordinary Black women, Susan Burton and Pamela Marshall, who are shaping history in real time, breaking cycles of incarceration for women through their work with the organization A New Way of Life (ANWOL.) 

I first met Susan and Pamela through Democracy Clothing, the brand my sister Caren founded, when we visited A New Way of Life to bring clothing to the staff and residents and later invited a group of their mothers to the Democracy studio. Spending time with them, seeing their impact firsthand, and later reading Susan’s memoir, I was struck by how they transform personal loss and systemic harm into healing and hope for women rebuilding their lives.

Susan founded A New Way of Life in 1998 after surviving nearly two decades in the cycle of incarceration herself. Following the devastating loss of her young son, her grief led to substance use that was criminalized and punished again and again, instead of supported. After her sixth release from prison, she finally experienced recovery rooted in dignity and opportunity and committed to bringing that same humanity to other women.

What began as one home in South Los Angeles has grown into a nationally recognized reentry model that has provided safe housing to more than 1,800 women, reunited over 400 mothers with their children, and helped thousands clear legal barriers to employment and housing. This work is especially urgent given that the number of incarcerated women has increased by more than 600 percent since 1980, and that women returning home often face unique barriers, including higher rates of trauma, primary caregiving responsibilities, and limited gender responsive reentry support.

Susan is now a grandmother and a great grandmother, building legacy across generations of women in more ways than one. Pamela’s story is woven into that legacy. She joined A New Way of Life through a transitional employment program when Susan saw something special in her. Over time she was mentored, entrusted with greater responsibility, and eventually Susan passed the baton. Today, as one of two Co- Directors, Pamela carries the vision forward, expanding ANWOL’s reach and impact. 

This conversation was recorded months ago, but the episode’s release feels like it’s arriving at exactly the right time. At this moment in our country, as state-sanctioned immigration raids harm families and destabilize communities across cities like Minneapolis, we feel the weight of injustice and wonder how to respond. And yet, we are also witnessing communities of care step forward, neighbors disrupting cycles of harm where they live, choosing solidarity over fear and acting from compassion. That is exactly what Susan and Pamela have been building for decades. Their wisdom grounds us in the knowledge that change begins close to home and is rooted in love.

Topics Discussed in this Episode:

• The criminalization of addiction, the impact of intergenerational trauma, and the systems of poverty and racism that create cycles of harm

• Moving from being fueled by rage to being powered by forgiveness and love as a force for transformation

• How A New Way of Life creates safe homes where women returning from prison find stability, support, and the foundation to rebuild their lives

• Raising children to use their voices and be brave in the face of injustice

• Creating networks of support with like-minded people and remembering we're all connected

• Staying out of the “deep, dark hole” of the news cycle to protect your spirit

• Learning to pour into yourself while also caring for and uplifting others

• Why Susan believes real systemic change begins in hearts and minds, not legislation

About Susan Burton

Ms. Burton struggled to rise above a life of poverty, violence, and loss. As a way to cope, she fell harder into substance misuse and became enmeshed in the cycle of mass incarceration for nearly two decades. After being released from prison for the sixth time, Ms. Burton was finally able to access recovery services in an affluent area of Los Angeles. There she discovered and embraced opportunities that were never offered before. Determined to bring those resources to areas plagued by poverty and over-incarceration, Ms. Burton founded A New Way of Life (ANWOL) in 1998. 

Ms. Burton is a co-founder of All of Us or None (AOUON) and the Formerly Incarcerated & Convicted People and Families Movement (FICPFM), both national grassroots civil rights movements composed of formerly incarcerated individuals, their families and community allies. In collaboration with UCLA’s Critical Race Studies Program, she launched an employment rights reentry legal clinic, which has grown to be the largest of its kind in Southern California. 

Susan has earned numerous awards and honors for her work. In 2010, she was named a CNN Top Ten Hero and received the prestigious Citizen Activist Award from the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. She is a recipient of the Encore Purpose Prize (2012) and the James Irvine Foundation Leadership Award (2014). In 2015, on the 50th Anniversary of Selma and the Voting Rights Act, Susan Burton was named by the Los Angeles Times as one of eighteen new civil rights leaders in the nation. Released in 2017, her memoir, Becoming Ms. Burton, received a 2018 NAACP Image Award for Outstanding Literary Work in the category of Biography/Autobiography. Becoming Ms.Burton is also the recipient of the inaugural Goddard Riverside Stephan Russo Book Prize for Social Justice. In 2019, Susan received an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters from California State University, Northridge. 

After a 2017-18 tour with her memoir in 64 prisons and jails in 26 states and three countries, Ms. Burton launched the SAFE (Sisterhood Alliance for Freedom and Equality) Housing Network to replicate A New Way of Life’s effective and humane reentry model. Since 2018, Ms. Burton has mentored and supported seventeen organizations in twelve states (Arizona, California, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Mississippi, Nebraska, Nevada, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Washington) and two countries (Uganda and Kenya) to open their own safe homes

 

Connect with Susan:

• A New Way of Life | https://anewwayoflife.org/

• LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/susan-burton-15a9a013

• Instagram | @susanburtonla

 

About Pamela Marshall

After a decade of working in retail, Ms. Marshall was laid off during the Great Recession. A single mother, she began looking for opportunities to reclaim economic self-sufficiency. She applied to California’s Transitional Subsidized Employment (TSE) program. In 2011, she was offered a short-term position as a housing coordinator at A New Way of Life Reentry Project (ANWOL). 

Within the six months allotted for TSE placement, Ms. Marshall quickly demonstrated her exceptional capabilities to excel in all assigned duties. Unfortunately, the placement was temporary and ANWOL did not have the resources available to offer her full-time employment. 

A key value embedded in the work of A New Way of Life is to recognize every woman’s potential. ANWOL Founder Susan Burton was so impressed with Ms. Marshall’s work ethic, she was able to secure additional resources. A few months later, she offered Ms. Marshall a full-time position as an administrative assistant. She progressed to serve as Ms. Burton’s executive assistant and then ANWOL’s manager of office administration. In December of 2020, she was promoted to the position of Co-Director. 

For over a decade, Ms. Marshall has contributed to the growth and stability of A New Way of Life. Because she has lived it, she understands the importance of valuing each client, recognizing potential and providing the resources needed to succeed. A trusted mentee of Ms. Burton, as CoDirector, she is uniquely equipped to lead a national reentry organization and further ANWOL’s mission—continually working to link promise with opportunity, create change, and transform lives.

 

Connect with Pamela

• A New Way of Life | https://anewwayoflife.org/
• LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/pamela-marshall-858528115

 

This Episode’s Challenge:

Pamela's challenge is to invest in yourself in addition to others, because it doesn't have to be either or. Find one positive moment each day that you can take into tomorrow. Susan's challenge is to stop and help someone and allow yourself to feel the vibration from that and resonate with it. Both of these challenges connect to the larger themes of our conversation about finding joy in small moments, remembering we're all connected, and leading with love rather than fear.

Related Episodes: 

• Ep 106: The Secret to Impacting Our Democracy with States Project’s Melissa Walker

• Ep 109: Turning Toward One Another with Rabbi Sharon Brous

• Ep 100: Mothering as Revolutionary Love

• Honoring Black Mothers: A Special Mother’s Day Episode with Anna Malaika Tubbs, Author of The Three Mothers

Books Mentioned: 

• Becoming Ms. Burton: From Prison to Recovery to Leading the Fight for Incarcerated Women

• Erased: What American Patriarchy Has Hidden from Us

• The Three Mothers

• The Amen Effect: Ancient Wisdom to Mend Our Broken Hearts and World

 

This Episode is Dedicated by Anna Malaika Tubbs

Anna Malaika Tubbs is a 2x New York Times bestselling author and multidisciplinary expert on current and historical understandings of race, gender, and equity. With a Ph.D. in Sociology and a Masters in Multidisciplinary Gender Studies from the University of Cambridge in addition to a Bachelors in Medical Anthropology from Stanford University, Anna translates her academic knowledge into stories that are clear and engaging. Her articles have been published by TIME Magazine, New York Magazine, Newsweek, The Guardian, and others. Her first book The Three Mothers: How the Mothers of MLK Jr, Malcolm X, and James Baldwin Shaped a Nation came out in 2021, her second book Erased: What American Patriarchy Has Hidden From Us came out in May of 2025. Anna’s storytelling also takes form in her talks, including her TED Talk that has been viewed 2 million times, as well as the scripted and unscripted screen projects she has in development. She lives in Los Angeles with her husband and their three kids.

 

Connect with Anna

• Website | https://annamalaikatubbs.com/

• Instagram | https://www.instagram.com/annamalaikatubbs

• Podcast: Revolution Resolution with Anna Malaika Tubbs

 

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