#46 - Communicate Better at Work with Misha Glouberman, Author, Coach & Advisor
Release Date: 06/05/2024
#72 - Moderna GC’s AI Strategy
Pearls On, Gloves Off
What does it look like when a general counsel doesn’t just adopt AI—but rewires her entire legal function around it? In this episode, Mary O’Carroll sits down with Shannon Thyme Klinger, Chief Legal Officer at Moderna and President of Moderna Charitable Foundation. Named by the Financial Times as one of the most innovative GCs of the past two decades, Shannon is reshaping what it means to lead a legal team—and a profession—through profound change. In this episode: “AI won’t replace lawyers, but…” Shannon lays out her bold vision: why lawyers who don’t harness AI may get...
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#71 - How to Hire (and Get Hired) in Legal Ops
Pearls On, Gloves Off
In this episode, Mary O’Carroll reunites with Anne Kerwin Payne of Kerwin Associates to dig into one of the most misunderstood yet high-stakes roles in legal: in-house legal operations. If you’re a GC hiring for legal ops—or a candidate trying to land that elusive “head of legal ops” title—this one’s for you. Anne brings decades of legal recruiting insight, a front-row seat to the evolution of the legal ops role, and a refreshingly candid take on what works (and what definitely doesn’t). In this episode: What Even Is This Job? Why the role of legal ops is still hard to...
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#70 - Data, AI, and the New Legal Ops Playbook
Pearls On, Gloves Off
When legal ops meets the AI data revolution, what does it actually look like on the ground? In this episode, Mary O’Carroll sits down with Aaron Bromagem, Head of Legal Operations at Snowflake, to talk about what it means to lead legal ops inside one of the top AI and data companies—and why the role today is barely recognizable from just a few years ago. Aaron shares how his team is navigating breakneck change, massive expectations from leadership, and a vendor landscape that’s expanding faster than anyone can track. If you’ve ever felt like your strategy gets outdated before you even...
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#69 - Why VCs Are Betting Billions On Legal Tech
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Years before legal tech hit the mainstream, Jake Saper was already placing bets. As a General Partner at Emergence Capital, Jake helped fund foundational legal tech startups like Ironclad and SimpleLegal—long before most VCs would touch the sector. In this episode, Mary sits down with Jake to unpack his early insights and where he sees the industry heading next. From CLM to AI agents, they explore what’s real, what’s hype, and what buyers and founders should really be paying attention to. Jake isn’t just a savvy investor—he’s a pattern recognizer who sees how AI, pricing models,...
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#68 - Law Firms Enter The AI Arms Race
Pearls On, Gloves Off
Two years ago, Max Junestrand was pitching his legal AI tool in Stockholm. Today, he leads one of the fastest-growing and most talked-about startups in the legal tech space. In this episode, Mary sits down with the CEO of Legora to unpack what’s really happening at the intersection of AI and the legal industry—and what’s coming next. In this episode: Zero to Ninety: How Legora grew from 3 co-founders in a tiny room to nearly 90 employees in under two years—and why growth at that pace is both exhilarating and challenging. The AI Arms Race: Why Max thinks we're past the “zero to...
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#67 - The Multinational CLO
Pearls On, Gloves Off
When Mary O’Carroll arrived at Goodwin, she didn’t expect to find a "General Counsel in Residence" — and certainly not one with the powerhouse career of Genevieve Kelly. In this episode, Mary sits down with Genevieve, whose career includes GC and CLO roles at household names like Panera Bread, Petco, and Dole Food Company. Together, they dive deep into what it really takes to lead legal functions inside massive global organizations — and what Genevieve has learned transitioning between companies, cultures, and leadership roles. In this episode: Homegrown GC: How Genevieve rose from...
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#66 - So you wanna be a GC?
Pearls On, Gloves Off
When your board asks, “Why this GC?”, you'd better have a good answer. That’s where Anne Kerwin Payne comes in. In this episode, Mary O’Carroll sits down with one of the most trusted names in legal executive search. As founder and managing director of Kerwin Associates, Anne has helped place legal and compliance leaders at some of the most innovative companies in the world. She knows what it takes to stand out—and what gets overlooked. They dive deep into what CEOs are really looking for in today’s legal hires, and why pedigree alone won’t cut it. Whether you’re an aspiring...
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#65 - What It Really Takes to Be a CLO Today
Pearls On, Gloves Off
Producer’s Note: Oops—we hit a tech snag and the original episode got clipped. Here is the full version. Thanks for bearing with us! When April Miller Boise says she runs into burning buildings, she’s not exaggerating—she thrives in transformation. As EVP, Chief Legal Officer, and Corporate Secretary at Intel, April brings a rare blend of legal precision and big-picture business leadership to one of the most complex roles in the C-suite. In this episode, April sits down with Mary to unpack what it really takes to become a CLO today—and why it’s nothing like the GC roles of the...
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#64 - Why Playing by the Rules Won’t Get You Promoted
Pearls On, Gloves Off
Today, Mary sits down with Kathy Dockry, a seasoned leadership coach who has spent over 20 years accelerating the success of high-achieving professionals on their journey to executive leadership. Before stepping into the world of coaching, Kathy was a corporate powerhouse herself, rising to become CEO and North American President of a major British energy company. But she didn’t start there—her roots are in law. Having worked as a litigator in two large New York firms and serving as a general counsel before transitioning into operational leadership, Kathy understands firsthand the...
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#63 - Is 2025 The Year Law Firms Finally Transform? - A Conversation with Matt Sunderman, CEO of Harbor Global
Pearls On, Gloves Off
Welcome to another episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off with your host, Mary O'Carroll, Chief Operating Officer at Goodwin. In this episode, Mary sits down with Matt Sunderman, CEO of Harbor Global, to explore the current state and future of legal transformation across law firms and corporate legal departments. Matt Sunderman brings over two decades of experience in the legal industry, leading Harbor Global, the newly branded combination of HBR Consulting, LAC Group, Wilson Allen, and others. His unique position at the intersection of law firms, corporate legal departments, and technology...
info_outlineIn this episode of Pearls On, Gloves Off, Mary is joined by Misha Glouberman, an acclaimed author, advisor, and coach who excels in the art of effective communication and managing difficult conversations. Together, they explore the intricate dance between analytic thinking and emotional understanding in the workplace.
Mary and Misha delve into:
• Effective Communication: Misha underscores the critical importance of balancing analytical and emotional aspects in communications, focusing on real-world business problems that stem from human challenges like miscommunication and conflict avoidance.
• The Human Element in Business: They discuss how most organizational issues are essentially human problems and the value of addressing these to achieve tangible outcomes.
• Navigating People Problems: With insights from Misha’s book, The Chairs Are Where the People Go, which has been highly praised for its insightful approach to everyday issues, they explore practical strategies for better interpersonal interactions.
• Technology’s Role: The conversation touches on how technology impacts human interactions in business settings, emphasizing the need for a harmonious integration of tech solutions and human-centric approaches.
• Personal Insights: Misha provides personal anecdotes and professional advice on fostering effective communication within teams, emphasizing transparency, empathy, and the need for strategic personal interactions.
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