#354 – What the dying can teach us about living well: lessons on life and reflections on mortality | BJ Miller, M.D. and Bridget Sumser, L.C.S.W.
Release Date: 06/23/2025
The Peter Attia Drive
In this quarterly podcast summary (QPS) episode, Peter summarizes his biggest takeaways from the last three months of guest interviews on the podcast. Peter shares key insights from his discussions with Paul Turek and Paula Amato on male and female fertility; Rachel Rubin on menopause and hormone replacement therapy; Brian Kennedy on the biology of aging; Tanuj Nakra and Suzan Obagi on facial aging and skin rejuvenation; and BJ Miller and Bridget Sumser on lessons we can learn from the dying about how to live. Peter highlights the most important insights from each episode and any behavioral...
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Brian Kennedy is a renowned biologist, leader in aging research, and director of the Center for Healthy Longevity at the National University of Singapore. In this episode, Brian shares insights from ongoing human aging studies, including clinical trials of rapamycin and how dosing strategies, timing, and exercise may influence outcomes. He presents two key models of aging—one as a linear accumulation of biological decline and the other as an exponential rise in mortality risk—and explains why traditional models of aging fall short. He also explains why most current aging biomarkers lack...
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BJ Miller, a hospice and palliative care physician, and Bridget Sumser, a licensed social worker specializing in serious illness and end-of-life care, join Peter to share insights from their decades of work supporting people at the end of life. In this episode, they explore the emotional and physiological processes of dying, the cultural barriers that prevent meaningful conversations about death, and how early engagement with mortality can lead to greater clarity and connection. The conversation highlights the distinctions between hospice and palliative care, the nature of suffering beyond...
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This is part two of a two-part mini-series on fertility and reproductive health. Paula Amato is a leading expert in female reproductive health and infertility, widely recognized for her contributions to advancing fertility treatment and research. In this episode, which follows last week's conversation on male fertility, Paula explores the biology of female fertility, including how hormonal changes regulate the menstrual cycle and ovulation, what those patterns reveal about fertility potential, and why both partners should be evaluated early in infertility workups. She discusses the role of...
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This is part one of a two-part mini-series on fertility and reproductive health, with next week's guest, Dr. Paula Amato, focusing on the female side of the equation. Paul Turek is a world-renowned expert in male fertility and reproductive health, the founder and medical director of the Turek Clinic, and host of the Talk with Turek podcast. In this episode, Paul explores the topic of male fertility, offering a detailed look at the complex and highly coordinated process of conception and the many challenges sperm face on their journey to fertilizing an egg. He shares fascinating insights...
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BJ Miller, a hospice and palliative care physician, and Bridget Sumser, a licensed social worker specializing in serious illness and end-of-life care, join Peter to share insights from their decades of work supporting people at the end of life. In this episode, they explore the emotional and physiological processes of dying, the cultural barriers that prevent meaningful conversations about death, and how early engagement with mortality can lead to greater clarity and connection. The conversation highlights the distinctions between hospice and palliative care, the nature of suffering beyond physical pain, and the transformative role of honesty, forgiveness, and relational awareness in the dying process. Through stories and reflections, BJ and Bridget reveal what truly matters in the end—and how the dying can teach the living not only how to face death but how to live more fully.
We discuss:
- The personal journeys of BJ and Bridget into end-of-life care, and the connection between living and dying [3:30];
- What dying looks like: the physical, cognitive, and emotional realities at the end of life [13:15];
- How historical perspectives on death contrast with modern experiences of dying [25:30];
- The difference between palliative care and hospice care [30:45];
- The systemic challenges surrounding hospice care: why patients often enter it too late to receive its full benefits [35:30];
- How delayed hospice referrals and unspoken preferences often prevent patients from dying where and how they truly want [39:30];
- The realities of home hospice: challenges, costs, and burdens placed of families [43:45];
- How proactively engaging with the reality of death can avoid unnecessary suffering and promote a more peaceful ending [53:30];
- How palliative care is misunderstood and underutilized—especially in cancer care [1:02:45];
- Palliative care in the case of Alzheimer’s disease: emotional support, future planning, and family involvement [1:12:15];
- The importance of having an advance directive: defining what matters most before it’s too late [1:23:00];
- The differences between how young and old individuals experience dying from cancer [1:30:15];
- The difference between pain and suffering, role of medicine in pain relief, and why emotional healing is essential at the end of life [1:35:45];
- Dying well: the power of self-honesty and human connection at the end of life [1:47:00];
- How psychedelics like psilocybin can unlock emotional breakthroughs and deepen connection for patients near the end of life [1:55:15];
- Lessons from the dying on how to live well [1:57:30];
- The physical process of active dying, and the emotional and practical considerations for loved ones [2:09:30]; and
- More.
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