Not In My Town! Life in Doug Wilson's Moscow (with Sarah Bader)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
Release Date: 05/06/2026
Four and Twenty Blackbirds: Inside Mars Hill and the Trial of Paul Petry (with Rob Thain Smith)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
This conversation features Rob Thain Smith — author of Four and Twenty Blackbirds: The Trial of Paul Petry, the Beginning of the End of Mars Hill Church. We discuss the rise and fall of Mars Hill Church in Seattle, led by controversial pastor Mark Driscoll. Rob shares his first-hand experience as a long-time member who was in the process of becoming an elder when the church's governance crisis began. The central conflict we explore is the 2007 bylaw changes at Mars Hill that consolidated power away from a plurality of 24 elders and into Driscoll's hands. Rob recounts the controversial trial...
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From Pulpit to the Path: Recovery, Deconstruction, and Christian Mysticism (with Paule Patterson)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
This week’s episode features a conversation with Paule Patterson — a former pastor turned Christian mystic and recovering alcoholic — to trace the arc of his remarkable personal journey. Paule shares how his struggles with addiction, the collapse of his ministry in Missoula, Montana, and how multiple stints in rehab ultimately forced him to confront the deeper fractures in his faith, his identity, and his sense of self. Rather than walking away from spirituality entirely, Paule found that sobriety, AA, psychology, and a...
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Born and Razed: Surviving the Cult Was Only Half the Battle (with Beth Granger)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
In this episode, I speak with Beth Granger, author of Born and Razed: Surviving the Cult Was Only Half the Battle. Beth shares her extraordinary story of growing up as a staff kid inside Grenville Christian College in Brockville, Ontario — a boarding school secretly operating as a cult under the influence of the Community of Jesus, a commune based in Cape Cod. She describes the psychological control, public shaming sessions, draconian discipline, and spy networks that defined life inside the institution, drawing striking parallels between cult tactics and the dynamics of modern political...
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More Than Church Hurt: A Therapist's Guide to Religious Trauma Syndrome (with Morgan Piercy, LPC)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
In this week's episode, I chat with Morgan Piercy, a Licensed Professional Counselor based in Kansas. She specializes in helping adults deconstruct from evangelicalism and Christian nationalism through a neurodiversity-affirming lens. Together we explore the clinical reality of Religious Trauma Syndrome (RTS) — why it goes far deeper than the commonly used term "church hurt" — and how patriarchal church structures, purity culture, and high-control theology can create lasting psychological harm. We also draw on our personal experiences with religious deconstruction, sharing candid...
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Inside Opus Dei: The Catholic Cult Hiding In Plain Sight (with Gareth Gore)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
In this week's episode, I finally had the chance to interview investigative journalist Gareth Gore about his book Opus: The Cult of Dark Money, Human Trafficking, and Right-Wing Conspiracy Within the Catholic Church. Gore explains how he stumbled onto the story while investigating the 2017 collapse of Spain's Banco Popular, only to discover the bank had been covertly controlled by Opus Dei for decades — serving as its primary financial engine and funneling hundreds of millions, possibly billions, of dollars into the organization worldwide. Our conversation traces Opus Dei's origins in 1920s...
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Trying To Love An Invisible, Silent God: Chapter 4 From "Not So Shiny Not So Happy People"
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
I've finally had time to get this special episode out: another chapter reading from my 2024 book, Not So Shiny Not So Happy People: How Bill Gothard, Church, and Family Taught Me Christianity Doesn't Work, edited by Tim Sledge. In this reading--Chapter 4--I pick up the story that follows immediately after my first baptism at the age of 10. My pastor had recommended I get baptized after I'd seen that terrifying, end-times apocalyptic movie A Thief in the Night in the 1970s. Afraid of being left behind in the event of the Rapture, I submitted to his spiritual authority, and went ahead and got...
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The Christian Past That Wasn't: Debunking Christian Nationalist Myths (with Dr Warren Throckmorton)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
Just in time for the aftermath of the Christian nationalist-fuelled "Rededicate 250," I welcome back Dr. Warren Throckmorton. We discuss his new book, The Christian Past That Wasn't: Debunking The Christian Nationalist Myths That Hijack History, which challenges the historical claims of Christian nationalism. Dr. Throckmorton explains how Uganda's 2009 Anti-Homosexuality Bill — justified by its sponsors using the Bible and linked to "The Family" — sparked his journey toward strict church-state separationism. We then take aim at a number of these quasi-historical myths, such as the...
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Spiritual Bypassing: How Religion Masks Grief, Trauma, and Hard Emotions (with Dr Terri Daniel)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
This conversation features a return appearance by Dr. Terri Daniel of the Ask Dr. Death podcast. We discuss spiritual bypassing — a psychological phenomenon, originally coined by Buddhist teacher and psychotherapist John Welwood in the 1980s, which describes the use of spiritual or religious beliefs as a defense mechanism to avoid dealing with painful emotions, grief, trauma, and loss. Dr. Daniel draws from her academic research, as well as her experience as a hospice chaplain, offering case studies and clinical definitions to illuminate how people use religion to sidestep the hard work of...
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Not In My Town! Life in Doug Wilson's Moscow (with Sarah Bader)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
After speaking recently with Peter Bell for the last podcast, I'm bringing you a bonus episode: a conversation Sarah Bader, co-host of the Sons of Patriarchy podcast and a longtime Moscow, Idaho resident. We talk about what everyday life is like under the influence of Pastor Doug Wilson and his Christ Church. Sarah shares how she joined Peter after a failed NPR project, and how growing up in Moscow since 1998 gave her a frontline view of how Doug Wilson has systematically built a religious and cultural empire in the town. The conversation covers Wilson's dominionist agenda, his ties to the...
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Pete Hegseth and Doug Wilson: Patriarchy, Power, and Politics (with Peter Bell of the Sons of Patriarchy)
The Dismantling Doctrine Podcast
In this episode, I welcome Peter Bell from the Sons of Patriarchy podcast for a deep dive into the world of Doug Wilson. He's a self-ordained pastor from Moscow, Idaho who has spent decades building a network of Christian nationalist influence. Together we trace Wilson's origins, his controversial "Southern Slavery As It Was" pamphlet, his founding of the CREC denomination and the Association of Classical Christian Schools (ACCS), and how his fringe ideas gradually moved into the mainstream — culminating in his recent sermon at the Pentagon. The conversation then turns to Pete Hegseth, now...
info_outlineAfter speaking recently with Peter Bell for the last podcast, I'm bringing you a bonus episode: a conversation Sarah Bader, co-host of the Sons of Patriarchy podcast and a longtime Moscow, Idaho resident.
We talk about what everyday life is like under the influence of Pastor Doug Wilson and his Christ Church. Sarah shares how she joined Peter after a failed NPR project, and how growing up in Moscow since 1998 gave her a frontline view of how Doug Wilson has systematically built a religious and cultural empire in the town. The conversation covers Wilson's dominionist agenda, his ties to the American Redoubt movement, Christian nationalism, and his growing national influence through figures like "Secretary of War" Pete Hegseth.
The second half of the interview delves into specific scandals Wilson has survived, most notably the Steven Sitler child abuse case, where Wilson wrote letters of leniency to the court and later presided over Sitler's wedding despite his crimes.
We also discuss the cult-like hallmarks of Wilson's Christ "Kirk"--loaded language, self-ordained leadership, a self-contained publishing and education empire, and a culture of fear and bullying that has left local businesses, city officials, and even state institutions reluctant to challenge Wilson. Sarah reflects on the personal toll of living within 500 yards of Wilson's campus while fighting him publicly, expressing uncertainty about whether the battle is being won, but affirming her commitment to speaking out as long as she can.
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