Blessed Eyes That See: How Parables Transform Our Understanding of God's Kingdom

In this introductory episode to their new series on the Parables of Jesus, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb explore the profound theological significance of Christ's parables. Far from being mere teaching tools to simplify complex ideas, parables serve a dual purpose in God's redemptive plan: revealing spiritual truth to those with "ears to hear" while concealing these same truths from those without spiritual illumination. This episode lays the groundwork for understanding how parables function as divine teaching devices that embody core Reformed doctrines like election and illumination. As the hosts prepare to journey through all the parables in the Gospels, they invite listeners to consider the blessing of being granted spiritual understanding and the privilege of receiving the "secrets of the kingdom" through Christ's distinctive teaching method.

Key Takeaways

• Parables are more than illustrations—they are comparisons that reveal kingdom truths to those with spiritual ears to hear while concealing truth from those without spiritual illumination.
• Jesus intentionally taught in parables not to simplify his teaching but partly to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy about those who hear but do not understand, confirming the spiritual condition of his hearers.
• The ability to understand parables is itself evidence of God's sovereign grace and election, as Jesus states in Matthew 13:16: "Blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear."
• Parables vary in form and function—some are clearly allegorical while others make a single point, requiring each to be approached on its own terms.
• Proper interpretation requires context—understanding both the original audience and the question or situation that prompted Jesus to use a particular parable.
• Parables function like Nathan's confrontation of David—they draw hearers in through narrative before revealing uncomfortable truths about themselves.
• Studying parables requires spiritual humility—recognizing that our understanding comes not from intellectual capacity but from the Spirit's illumination.

Understanding Parables as Revelation, Not Just Illustration

The hosts emphasize that parables are fundamentally different from mere illustrations or fables. While modern readers often assume Jesus used parables to simplify complex spiritual truths, the opposite is frequently true. As Tony explains, "A parable fundamentally is a comparison between two things... The word parable comes from the Greek of casting alongside." This distinction is crucial because it changes how we approach interpretation. Rather than breaking down each element as an allegorical component, we should first understand what reality Jesus is comparing the parable to. The parables function as a form of divine revelation—showing us kingdom realities through narrative comparison, but only those with spiritual insight can truly grasp their meaning. This is why Jesus quotes Isaiah and explains that he speaks in parables partly because "seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear nor do they understand" (Matthew 13:13).

The Doctrine of Election Embedded in Parabolic Teaching

Perhaps the most profound insight from this episode is how the very form of Jesus' teaching—not just its content—embodies the doctrine of election. Jesse notes that "every parable then implicitly teaches a doctrine of election," because they reveal spiritual truth to some while concealing it from others. This isn't arbitrary but reflects spiritual realities. The hosts connect this to Jesus' words in Matthew 13:16: "Blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear." This blessing comes not from intellectual capacity or moral superiority but from God's sovereign grace. Tony describes this as "the blessing in our salvation and in our election that we are enabled to hear and perceive and receive the very voice and word of God into our spirit unto our salvation." The parables thus become a "microcosm" of Reformed doctrines like election, regeneration, and illumination. When believers understand Jesus' parables, they're experiencing the practical outworking of these doctrines in real time.

Memorable Quotes

"The parables are not just to illustrate a point, they're to reveal a spiritual point or spiritual points to those who have ears to hear, to those who've been illuminated by the spirit." - Tony Arsenal

"Jesus is giving this message essentially to all who will listen to him... And so this is like, I love the way that he uses that quote in a slightly different way, but still to express the same root cause, which is some of you here because of your depravity will not be able to hear what I'm saying. But for those to whom it has been granted to come in who are ushered into the kingdom, this kingdom language will make sense." - Jesse Schwamb

"But blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear. There's a blessing in our salvation and in our election that we are enabled to hear and perceive and receive the very voice and word of God into our spirit unto our salvation." - Tony Arsenal

About the Hosts

Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb are the regular hosts of The Reformed Brotherhood podcast, where they explore Reformed theology and its application to Christian living. With a conversational style that balances depth and accessibility, they seek to make complex theological concepts understandable without sacrificing nuance or biblical fidelity.

Transcript

[00:00:45] Introduction and New Series Announcement

[00:00:45] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 460 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse.

[00:00:54] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother.

[00:00:59] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. New series Time, new series. Time for the next seven years that, that's probably correct. It's gonna be a long one. New beginnings are so great, aren't they? And it is.

[00:01:10] Jesse Schwamb: We've been hopefully this, well, it's definitely gonna live up to all the hype that we've been presenting about this. It's gonna be good. Everybody's gonna love it. And like I said, it's a topic we haven't done before. It's certainly not in this format.

[00:01:23] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, just, um, as a side note, if you are a listener, which you must be, if you're hearing this, uh, this is a great time to introduce someone to the podcast.

[00:01:33] Tony Arsenal: True. Uh, one, because this series is gonna be lit as the kids say, and, uh, it's a new series, so you don't have to have any background. You don't have to have any previous knowledge of the show or of who these two weird guys are to jump in and we're gonna.

[00:01:53] Tony Arsenal: Talk about the Bible, which is amazing and awesome. And who doesn't love to talk about the Bible.

[00:01:58] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's correct. That's what makes these so good. That's how I know, and I could say confidently that this is gonna be all the hype and more. All right, so before we get to affirmations and denials, all the good ProGo, that's part and parcel of our normal episode content.

[00:02:12] Jesse Schwamb: Do you want to tell everybody what we're gonna be talking about?

[00:02:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I'm excited.

[00:02:17] Introducing the Parables Series

[00:02:17] Tony Arsenal: So we are gonna work our way through, and this is why I say it's gonna take seven years. We are gonna work our way through all of the parables. Parables,

[00:02:25] Jesse Schwamb: the

[00:02:25] Tony Arsenal: gospels and just so, um, the Gospel of John doesn't feel left out.

[00:02:30] Tony Arsenal: We're gonna talk through some of the I am statements and some of that stuff when we get to John. 'cause John doesn't have a lot of parables. Uh, so we're gonna spend time in the synoptic gospels. We're gonna just walk through the parables one by one. We're taking an episode, sometimes maybe two, sometimes 10, depending on how long the parable is and how deep we get into it.

[00:02:47] Tony Arsenal: We're just gonna work our way through. We're gonna take our time. We're gonna enjoy it. So again, this is a great time to start. It's kinda the ground floor on this and you thing. This could really be its own podcast all by itself, right? Uh, so invite a friend, invite some whole bunch of friends. Start a Sunday school class listening to this.

[00:03:04] Tony Arsenal: No, don't do that. But people have done that before. But, uh, grab your bibles, get a decent commentary to help prep for the next episode, and, uh, let's, let's do it. I'm super excited.

[00:03:14] Jesse Schwamb: When I say para, you say Abel Para, is that how it works? Para? Yeah. I don't know. You can't really divide it. Pairable. If you jam it together, yes.

[00:03:24] Jesse Schwamb: You get some of that. You can say, when I say pair, you say Abel p

[00:03:27] Tony Arsenal: Abel.

[00:03:31] Jesse Schwamb: And you can expect a lot more of that in this series. But before we get into all this good juicy stuff about parables, and by the way, this is like an introductory episode, that doesn't mean that you can just skip it, doesn't mean it's not gonna be good. We gotta set some things up. We wanna talk about parables general generally, but before we have that good general conversation, let's get into our own tradition, which is either affirming with something or denying against something.

[00:03:54] Affirmations and Denials

[00:03:54] Jesse Schwamb: And so, Tony, what do you got for all of us?

[00:03:58] Tony Arsenal: Mine is kind of a, an ecclesial, ecclesiastical denial. Mm-hmm. Um, this is sort of niche, but I feel like our audience may have heard about it. And there's this dust up that I, I noticed online, uh, really just this last week. Um, it's kind of a specific thing. There is a church, uh, I'm not sure where the church is.

[00:04:18] Tony Arsenal: It's a PCA church, I believe it's called Mosaic. The pastor of the church, the teaching elder, one of the teaching elders just announced that he was, uh, leaving his ministry to, uh, join the Roman Catholic Church, which, yes, there's its own denial built into that. We are good old Protestant reformed folks, and I personally would, would stick with the original Westminster on the, the Pope being antichrist.

[00:04:45] Tony Arsenal: But, um, that's not the denial. The denial is that in this particular church. For some unknown reason. Uh, the pastor who has now since a announced that he was leaving to, uh, to convert to Roman Catholicism, continued to preach the sermon and then administered the Lord's supper, even though he in the eyes, I think of most.

[00:05:08] Tony Arsenal: Reformed folk and certainly historically in the eyes of the reformed position was basically apostate, uh, right in front of the congregation's eyes. Now, I don't know that I would necessarily put it that strongly. I think there are plenty of genuine born again Christians who find themselves in, in the Roman Catholic, uh, church.

[00:05:27] Tony Arsenal: Uh, but to allow someone who is one resigning the ministry right in front of your eyes. Um, and then resigning to basically leave for another tradition that, that the PCA would not recognize, would not share ecclesiastical, uh, credentials with or accept their ordination or any of those things. Um, to then just allow him to admit, you know, to administer the Lord's Supper, I think is just a drastic miscarriage of, uh, ecclesiastical justice.

[00:05:54] Tony Arsenal: I dunno if that's the right word. So I'm just denying this like. It shows that on a couple things like this, this. Church this session, who obviously knew this was coming. Um, this session does either, does not take seriously the differences between Roman Catholic theology and Protestant theology, particularly reformed theology, or they don't take seriously the, the gravity of the Lord's supper and who should and shouldn't be administering it.

[00:06:22] Tony Arsenal: They can't take both of those things seriously and have a fully or biblical position on it. So there's a good opportunity for us to think through our ecclesiology, to think through our sacrament and how this applies. It just really doesn't sit well and it's not sitting well with a lot of people online, obviously.

[00:06:37] Tony Arsenal: Um, and I'm sure there'll be all sorts of, like letters of concern sent to presbytery and, and all that stuff, and, and it'll all shake out in the wash eventually, but just, it just wasn't good. Just doesn't sit right.

[00:06:48] Jesse Schwamb: You know, it strikes me of all the denominations. I'm not saying this pejoratively. I just think it is kind of interesting and funny to me that the Presbyterians love a letter writing campaign.

[00:06:56] Jesse Schwamb: Like that's kind of the jam, the love, a good letter writing campaign.

[00:07:00] Tony Arsenal: It's true, although it's, it's actually functional in Presbyterianism because That's right. That's how you voice your concern. It's not a, not a, a rage letter into the void. It actually goes somewhere and gets recorded and has to be addressed at presbytery if you have standing.

[00:07:17] Tony Arsenal: So there's, there's a good reason to do that, and I'm sure that that will be done. I'm sure there are many. Probably ministers in the PCA who are aware of this, who are either actually considering filing charges or um, or writing such letters of complaints. And there's all sorts of mechanisms in the PCA to, to adjudicate and resolve and to investigate these kinds of things.

[00:07:37] Jesse Schwamb: And I'd like to, if you're, if you're a true Presbyterian and, and in this instance, I'm not making light of this instance, but this instance are others, you. Feel compelled by a strong conviction to write such a letter that really you should do it with a quill, an ink. Like that's the ultimate way. I think handwritten with like a nice fountain pen.

[00:07:54] Jesse Schwamb: There's not, yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like that's, that is a weighty letter right there. Like it's cut to Paul being like, I write this postscript in my own hand with these big letters. Yeah, it's like, you know, some original Presbyterian letter writing right there.

[00:08:07] Tony Arsenal: And then you gotta seal it with wax with your signe ring.

[00:08:10] Tony Arsenal: So, and send it by a carrier, by a messenger series of me messengers.

[00:08:14] Jesse Schwamb: Think if you receive any letter in the mail, handwritten to you. Like for real, somebody painstakingly going through in script like spencerian script, you know, if you're using English characters writing up and then sealing that bad boy with wax, you're gonna be like, this is important.

[00:08:30] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, this, even if it's just like, Hey, what's up? Yeah, you're gonna be like, look at this incredible, weighty document I've received.

[00:08:36] Tony Arsenal: It's true. It's very true. I love it. Well, that's all I have to say about that to channel a little Forrest Gump there. Uh, Jesse, what are you affirming or denying tonight?

[00:08:44] Jesse Schwamb: I'm also going to deny against, so this denial is like classic.

[00:08:49] Jesse Schwamb: It's routine, but I got a different spin on it this time, so I'm denying against. The full corruption of sin, how it appears everywhere, how even unbelievers speak of it, almost unwittingly, but very commonly with great acceptance. And the particularity of this denial comes in the form of allergies, which you and I are talking about a lot of times.

[00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: But I was just thinking about this week because I had to do some allergy testing, which is a, a super fun experience. But it just got me think again, like very plainly about what allergies are. And how an allergy occurs when your immune system, like the part of your body responsible for protecting your body that God has made when your immune system mistakes like a non-harmful substance like pollen or a food or some kind of animal dander for a threat, and then reacts by producing these antibodies like primarily the immunoglobulin E.

[00:09:36] Jesse Schwamb: So here's what strikes me as so funny about this in a, in a way that we must laugh. Because of our, our parents, our first parents who made a horrible decision and we like them, would make the same decision every day and twice in the Lord's day. And that is that this seems like, of course, such a clear sign of the corruption of sin impounded in our created order because it seems a really distasteful and suboptimal for human beings to have this kind of response to pollen.

[00:10:03] Jesse Schwamb: When they were intended to work and care in a garden. So obviously I think we can say, Hey, like the fact that allergies exist and that it's your body making a mistake.

[00:10:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah.

[00:10:13] Jesse Schwamb: It's like the ultimate, like cellular level of the ubiquity of sin. And so as I was speaking with my doctor and going through the, the testing, it's just so funny how like we all talk about this.

[00:10:25] Jesse Schwamb: It's like, yeah, it's, it's a really over-indexed reaction. It doesn't make any sense. It's not the way the world is supposed to be, but nobody's saying how is the world supposed to be? Do you know what I mean? Like, but we just take it for granted that that kind of inflammation that comes from like your dog or like these particles in the air of plants, just trying to do a plant stew and reproduce and pollinate that, that could cause like really dramatic and debilitating.

[00:10:49] Jesse Schwamb: Responses is just exceptional to me, and I think it's exceptional and exceptional to all of us because at some deep level we recognize that, as Paul says, like the earth, the entire world is groaning. It's groaning for that eschatological release and redemption that can only come from Christ. And our runny noses in our hay fever all prove that to some degree.

[00:11:09] Jesse Schwamb: So denying against allergies, but denying against as well that ubiquity of corruption and sin in our world.

[00:11:15] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I just have this image in my head of Adam and Eve, you know, they're expelled outta the garden and they, they're working the ground. And then Adam sneezes. Yes. And Eve is like, did your head just explode?

[00:11:28] Tony Arsenal: And he's like, I don't know. That would've been a, probably a pretty terrifying experience actually.

[00:11:33] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's that's true. So imagine like you and I have talked about this before, because you have young children, adorable. Young children, and we've talked about like the first of everything, like when you're a child, you get sick for the first time, or you get the flu or you vomit for the first time.

[00:11:45] Jesse Schwamb: Like you have no idea what's going on in your body, but imagine that. But being an adult.

[00:11:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, where you can process what's going on, but don't have a framework for it.

[00:11:52] Jesse Schwamb: Yes, exactly. So like

[00:11:54] Tony Arsenal: that's like, that's like my worst nightmare I think.

[00:11:55] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. It's like, to your point, 'cause there, there are a lot of experiences you have as an adults, even health wise that are still super strange and weird.

[00:12:01] Jesse Schwamb: But

[00:12:02] Tony Arsenal: yeah,

[00:12:02] Jesse Schwamb: you have some rubric for them, but that's kind of exactly what I was thinking. What if this toiling over your labor is partly because it's horrible now because you have itchy, watery eyes or you get hives. Yeah. And before you were like, I could just lay in the grass and be totally fine. And now I can't even walk by ragweed without getting a headache or having some kind of weird fatigue.

[00:12:23] Jesse Schwamb: Like I have to believe that that was, that part of this transition was all of these things. Like, now your body's gonna overreact to stuff where I, I, God put us in a place where that wouldn't be the case at all.

[00:12:35] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Sometimes I think about like the first. Time that Adam was like sore or like hurt himself.

[00:12:42] Tony Arsenal: True. Like the, just the, just the terror and fear that must have come with it. And sin is serious stuff. Like it's serious effects and sad, sad, sad stuff. But yeah, allergies are the worst. I, uh, I suffered really badly with, uh, seasonal allergies. When I was a a kid I had to do allergy shots and everything and it's makes no sense.

[00:13:03] Tony Arsenal: There's no rhyme or reason to it, and your allergies change. So like you could be going your whole life, being able to eat strawberries and then all of a sudden you can't. Right? And it's, and you don't know until it happens. So

[00:13:14] Jesse Schwamb: what's up with that?

[00:13:15] Tony Arsenal: No good.

[00:13:16] Jesse Schwamb: What's up with that? So again, imagine that little experience is a microcosmic example of what happens to Adam and Eve.

[00:13:24] Jesse Schwamb: You know, like all these things change. Like you're, you're right. Suddenly your body isn't the same. It's not just because you're growing older, but because guess what? Sins everywhere. And guess what, where sin is, even in the midst of who you are as physically constructed and the environment in which you live, all, all totally change.

[00:13:40] Jesse Schwamb: So that, that's enough of my rants on allergies. I know the, I know the loved ones out there hear me. It's also remarkable to me that almost everybody has an allergy of some kind. It's very, it's very rare if you don't have any allergies whatsoever. And probably those times when you think you're sick and you don't have allergies could be that you actually have them.

[00:13:57] Jesse Schwamb: So it's just wild. Wild.

[00:14:02] Tony Arsenal: Agreed. Agreed.

[00:14:03] Theological Discussion on Parables

[00:14:03] Tony Arsenal: Well, Jesse, without further ado, I'm not, I, maybe we should have further ado, but let's get into it. Let's talk about some parable stuff.

[00:14:13] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, let's do it again. When I say pair, you say able pair.

[00:14:17] Tony Arsenal: Able.

[00:14:20] Jesse Schwamb: When I say

[00:14:21] Tony Arsenal: para you say bowl.

[00:14:24] Jesse Schwamb: That's what I was trying to go with before.

[00:14:26] Jesse Schwamb: It's a little bit more, yeah, but you gotta like cross over like we both gotta say like that middle syllable kind of. Otherwise it's, it sounds like I'm just saying bowl. And

[00:14:34] Tony Arsenal: yeah, there's no good way to chant that. Yeah, we're work. This is why Jesse and I are not cheerleaders.

[00:14:39] Jesse Schwamb: We're, we're work shopping everybody.

[00:14:40] Jesse Schwamb: But I agree with you. Enough of us talking about affirmations, the denials in this case, the double double denial. Let's talk about parables. So the beauty of this whole series is there's gonna be so much great stuff to talk about, and I think this is a decent topic for us to cover because. Really, if you think about it, the parables of Jesus have captivated people for the entirety of the scriptures.

[00:15:06] Jesse Schwamb: As long, as long as they were recorded and have been read and processed and studied together. And, uh, you know, there's stuff I'm sure that we will just gloss over. We don't need to get into in terms of like, is it pure allegory? Is it always allegory? Is it, there's lots of interpretation here. I think this is gonna be our way of processing together and moving through some of these and speaking them out and trying to learn principally.

[00:15:28] Jesse Schwamb: Predominantly what they're teaching us. But I say all that because characters like the prodigal son, like Good Samaritan, Pharisees, and tax collector, those actually have become well known even outside the church.

[00:15:40] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. And

[00:15:40] Jesse Schwamb: then sometimes inside the church there's over familiarity with all of these, and that leads to its own kind of misunderstanding.

[00:15:46] Jesse Schwamb: So, and I think as well. I'm hoping that myself, you and our listeners will be able to hear them in a new way, and maybe if we can try to do this without again, being parabolic, is that we can kind of recreate some of the trauma. In these stories. 'cause Jesus is, is pressing upon very certain things and there's certainly a lot of trauma that his original audiences would've taken away from what he was saying here.

[00:16:13] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Even just starting with what is a parable and why is Jesus telling them? So I presume that's actually the best place for us to begin is what's the deal with the parables and why is this? Is this Jesus preferred way of teaching about the kingdom of God.

[00:16:30] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and I think, you know, it bears saying too that like not all the parables are alike.

[00:16:35] Tony Arsenal: Like true. We can't, this is why I'm excited about this series. You know, it's always good to talk through the bible and, and or to talk through systematic theology, but what really excites me is when we do a series like this, kind of like the Scott's Confession series, like it gives us a reason. To think through a lot of different disciplines and flex like exercise and stretch and flex a lot of different kinds of intellectual muscles.

[00:17:00] Tony Arsenal: So there's gonna be some exegetical work we have to do. There's gonna be some hermeneutical work we're gonna have to do, probably have to do some historical work about how the parables have been interpreted in different ways. Yes, and and I think, so, I think it's important to say like, not every parable is exactly the same.

[00:17:14] Tony Arsenal: And this is where I think like when you read, sometimes you read books about the, the parables of Christ. Like you, you'll hear one guy say. Well, a parable is not an allegory. Then you'll hear another guy say like, well, parables might have allegorical elements to it. Right. Now if one guy say like, well, a parable has one main point, and you'll have another guy say like, well, no, actually, like parables can have multiple points and multiple shades of meaning.

[00:17:37] Tony Arsenal: And I think the answer to why you have this variance in the commentaries is 'cause sometimes the parables are alleg.

[00:17:44] Jesse Schwamb: Right. And

[00:17:44] Tony Arsenal: sometimes they're not allegorical. Sometimes they have one main point. Sometimes there's multiple points. So I think it's important for us to just acknowledge like we're gonna have to come to each parable, um, on its own and on its own terms.

[00:17:57] Tony Arsenal: But there are some general principles that I think we can talk about what parables are. So parables in general are. Figurative stories or figurative accounts that are used to illustrate, I think primarily used to illustrate a single main point. And there may be some subpoints, but they, they're generally intended to, uh, to illustrate something by way of a, of a narrative, a fictional narrative that, uh, helps the reader.

[00:18:27] Tony Arsenal: Uh, or the hearer is just, it's also important that these were primarily heard, these are heard parables, so there are even times where the phrasing of the language is important in the parable. Um, they're helping the, the hearer to understand spiritual truth. And this is where I think it's it's key, is that this is not just.

[00:18:48] Tony Arsenal: When we're talking about the parables of Christ, right? There's people tell parables, there's all sorts of different teachers that have used parables. Um, I, I do parables on the show from time to time where I'll tell like a little made up story about a, you know, a situation. I'll say like, pretend, you know, let's imagine you have this guy and he's doing this thing that's a form of a parable when I'm using.

[00:19:08] Tony Arsenal: I'm not, it's not like a makeup made up story. It's not asaps fables. We're not talking about like talking foxes and hens and stuff, but it's illustrating a point. But the parables of Christ are not just to illustrate a point, they're to reveal a spiritual point or spiritual points to those who have ears to hear, to those who've been illuminated by the spirit.

[00:19:29] Tony Arsenal: And I just wanna read this. Uh, this is just God's providence, um, in action. I, um, I've fallen behind on my reading in The Daily Dad, which is a Ryan Holiday book. This was the reading that came up today, even though it's not the correct reading for the day. Uh, it's, it's for September 2nd. We're recording this on September, uh, sixth.

[00:19:48] Tony Arsenal: Uh, and the title is, this is How You Teach Them. And the first line says, if the Bible has any indication, Jesus rarely seemed to come out and say what he meant. He preferred instead to employ parables and stories and little anecdotes that make you think. He tells stories of the servants and the talents.

[00:20:03] Tony Arsenal: He tells stories of the prodigal son and the Good Samaritan. Turns out it's pretty effective to get a point across and make it stick. What what we're gonna learn. Actually that Jesus tells these stories in parables, in part to teach those who have spiritual ears to hear, but in part to mask the truth That's right.

[00:20:24] Tony Arsenal: From those who don't have spiritual ears to hear, oh, online

[00:20:26] Jesse Schwamb: holiday.

[00:20:27] Tony Arsenal: So it's not as simple as like Jesus, using illustration to help make something complicated, clearer, right? Yes. But also, no. So I'm super excited to kind of get into this stuff and talk through it and to, to really dig into the parables themselves.

[00:20:42] Tony Arsenal: It's just gonna be a really good exercise at sort of sitting at the feet of our master in his really, his preferred mode of teaching. Um, you know, other than the sermon on the Mount. There's not a lot of like long form, straightforward, didactic teaching like that most of Christ's teaching as recorded in the gospels, comes in the form of these parables in one way or another.

[00:21:03] Tony Arsenal: Right. And that's pretty exciting to me.

[00:21:05] Jesse Schwamb: Right. And there's so many more parables I think, than we often understand there to be, or at least then that we see in like the headings are Bible, which of course have been put there by our own construction. So anytime you get that. Nice short, metaphorical narrative is really Jesus speaking in a kind of parable form, and I think you're right on.

[00:21:25] Jesse Schwamb: For me, it's always highlighting some kind of aspect of the kingdom of God. And I'd say there is generally a hierarchy. There doesn't have to be like a single point, like you said. There could be other points around that. But if you get into this place where like everything has some kind of allegory representation, then the parable seems to die of the death of like a million paper cuts, right?

[00:21:40] Jesse Schwamb: Because you're trying to figure out all the things and if you have to represent something, everything he says with some kind of. Heavy spiritual principle gets kind of weird very quickly. But in each of these, as you said, what's common in my understanding is it's presenting like a series of events involving like a small number of characters.

[00:21:57] Jesse Schwamb: It is bite-sized and sometimes those are people or plants or even like inanimate objects. So like the, yeah, like you said, the breadth and scope of how Jesus uses the metaphor is brilliant teaching, and it's even more brilliant when you get to that level, like you're saying, where it's meant both to illuminate.

[00:22:13] Jesse Schwamb: To obfuscate. That is like, to me, the parable is a manifestation of election because it's clear that Jesus is using this. Those who have the ears to hear are the ones whom the Holy Spirit has unstopped, has opened the eyes, has illuminated the hearts and the mind to such a degree that can receive these, and that now these words are resonant.

[00:22:32] Jesse Schwamb: So like what a blessing that we can understand them, that God has essentially. Use this parabolic teaching in such a way to bring forward his concept of election in the minds and the hearts of those who are his children. And it's kind of a way, this is kind of like the secret Christian handshake. It's the speakeasy of salvation.

[00:22:52] Jesse Schwamb: It's, it's coming into the fold because God has invited you in and given you. The knowledge and ability of which to really understand these things. And so most of these little characters seemed realistic and resonant in Jesus' world, and that's why sometimes we do need a little bit of studying and understanding the proper context for all those things.

[00:23:12] Jesse Schwamb: I would say as well, like at least one element in those parables is a push. It's in, it's kind of taking it and hyping it up. It's pushing the boundaries of what's plausible, and so you'll find that all of this is made again to illuminate some principle of the kingdom of God. And we should probably go to the thing that you intimated, because when you read that quote from, from Ryan Holiday, I was like, yes, my man.

[00:23:34] Jesse Schwamb: Like he's on the right track. Right? There's something about what he's saying that is partially correct, but like you said, a lot of times people mistake the fact that, well, Jesus. Is using this language and these metaphors, these similes, he speaks in parables because they were the best way to get like these uneducated people to understand him.

[00:23:57] Jesse Schwamb: Right? But it's actually the exact opposite. And we know this because of perhaps the most famous dialogue and expression and explanation of parables, which comes to us in Matthew 13, 10 through 17, where Jesus explains to his disciples exactly why he uses this mode of teaching. And what he says is. This is why I speak to them of parables because seeing they do not see and hearing, they do not hear they nor do they understand.

[00:24:24] Jesse Schwamb: So, so that's perplexing. We should probably camp there for just a second and talk about that. Right, and, and like really unpack like, what is Jesus after here? Then if, like, before we get into like, what do all these things mean, it's almost like saying. We need to understand why they're even set before us and why these in some ways are like a kind of a small stumbling block to others, but then this great stone of appreciation and one to stand on for for others.

[00:24:47] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, and I think you know, before we, before we cover that, which I think is a good next spot. A parable is not just an illustration. Like I think that's where a lot of people go a little bit sideways, is they think that this is effectively, like it's a fable. It's like a made up story primarily to like illustrate a point right.

[00:25:09] Tony Arsenal: Or an allegory where you know, you're taking individual components and they represent something else. A parable fundamentally is a, is a, a comparison between two things, right? The word parable comes from the Greek of casting alongside, and so the idea is like you're, you're taking. The reality that you're trying to articulate and you're setting up this parable next to it and you're comparing them to it.

[00:25:33] Tony Arsenal: And so I like to use the word simile, like that's why Christ says like the kingdom of God is like this. Yes. It's not like I'm gonna explain the kingdom of God to you by using this made up story. Right on. It's I'm gonna compare the kingdom of God to this thing or this story that I'm having, and so we should be.

[00:25:49] Tony Arsenal: Rather than trying to like find the principles of the parable, we should be looking at it and going, how does this parable reflect? Or how is this a, um, how is this an explanation? Not in the, like, I, I'm struggling to even explain this here. It's not that the cer, the parable is just illustrating a principle.

[00:26:10] Tony Arsenal: It's that the kingdom of God is one thing and the parable reveals that same one thing by way of comparison. Yes. So like. Uh, we'll get into the specifics, obviously, but when the, when the, um, lawyer says, who is my neighbor? Well, it's not just like, well, let's look at the Good Samaritan. And the Good Samaritan represents this, and the Levite represents this, and the priest represents this.

[00:26:32] Tony Arsenal: It's a good neighbor, is this thing. It's this story. Compared to whatever you have in your mind of what a good neighbor is. And we're gonna bounce those things up against each other, and that's gonna somehow show us what the, what the reality is. And that's why I think to get back to where we were, that's why I think sometimes the parables actually obscure the truth.

[00:26:53] Tony Arsenal: Because if we're not comparing the parable to the reality of something, then we're gonna get the parable wrong. So if we think that, um, the Good Samaritan. Is a parable about social justice and we're, we're looking at it to try to understand how do we treat, you know, the, the poor people in Africa who don't have food or the war torn refugees, you know, coming out of Ukraine.

[00:27:19] Tony Arsenal: If we're looking at it primarily as like, I need to learn to be a good neighbor to those who are destitute. Uh, we're not comparing it against what Jesus was comparing it against, right? So, so we have to understand, we have to start in a lot of cases with the question that the parable is a response to, which oftentimes the parable is a response to a question or it's a, it's a principle that's being, um, compare it against if we get that first step wrong, uh, or if we start with our own presuppositions, which is why.

[00:27:50] Tony Arsenal: Partially why I think Christ is saying like, the only those who have ears to hear. Like if you don't have a spiritual presupposition, I, I mean that, that might not be the right word, but like if you're not starting from the place of spiritual illumination, not in the weird gnostic sense, but in the, the.

[00:28:07] Tony Arsenal: Genuinely Christian illumination of the Holy Spirit and inward testimony of the Holy Spirit. If you're not starting from that perspective, you almost can't get the parables right. So that's why we see like the opponents of Christ in the Bible, the Pharisees, the Sadducees, constantly. They're constantly confused and they're getting it wrong.

[00:28:26] Tony Arsenal: And, and even sometimes the disciples, they have to go and ask sometimes too, what is this parable? Wow, that's right. What is, what does this mean? So it's never as simple as, as what's directly on the surface, but it's also not usually as complicated as we would make it be if we were trying to over-interpret the parable, which I think is another risk.

[00:28:44] Jesse Schwamb: That's the genius, isn't it? Is that I I like what you're saying. It's that spiritual predisposition that allows us to receive the word and, and when we receive that word, it is a simple word. It's not as if like, we have to elevate ourselves in place of this high learning or education or philosophizing, and that's the beauty of it.

[00:29:03] Jesse Schwamb: So it is, again, God's setting apart for himself A, a people a teaching. So. But I think this is, it is a little bit perplexing at first, like that statement from Jesus because it's a bit like somebody coming to you, like your place of work or anywhere else in your family life and asking you explicitly for instruction and, and then you saying something like, listen, I, I'm gonna show you, but you're not gonna be able to see it.

[00:29:22] Jesse Schwamb: And you're gonna, I'm gonna tell you, but you're not gonna be able to hear it, and I'm gonna explain it to you, but you're not gonna be able to understand. And you're like, okay. So yeah, what's the point of you talking to me then? So it's clear, like you said that Jesus. Is teaching that the secrets, and that's really, really what these are.

[00:29:37] The Secrets of the Kingdom of God

[00:29:37] Jesse Schwamb: It's brilliant and beautiful that Jesus would, that the, the son of God and God himself would tell us the secrets of his kingdom. But that again, first of all by saying it's a secret, means it's, it's for somebody to guard and to hold knowledge closely and that it is protected. So he says, teaching like the secrets of the kingdom of God are unknowable through mere human reasoning and intuition.

[00:29:56] Jesse Schwamb: Interestingly here though, Jesus is also saying that. He's, it's not like he's saying no one can ever understand the parables, right, or that he intends to hide their truth from all people.

[00:30:07] Understanding Parables and God's Sovereign Grace

[00:30:07] Jesse Schwamb: Instead, he just explains that in order to highlight God's sovereign grace, God in his mercy has enlightened some to whom it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven.

[00:30:17] Jesse Schwamb: That's verse 11. So. All of us as his children who have been illuminated can understand the truth of God's kingdom. That is wild and and that is amazing. So that this knowledge goes out and just like we talk about the scripture going out and never returning void, here's a prime example of that very thing that there is a condemnation and not being able to understand.

[00:30:37] Jesse Schwamb: That condemnation comes not because you're not intelligent enough, but because as you said, you do not have that predisposition. You do not have that changed heart into the ability to understand these things.

[00:30:47] Doctrine of Election and Spiritual Insight

[00:30:47] Jesse Schwamb: This is what leads me here to say like every parable then implicitly teaches a doctrine of election.

[00:30:53] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, because all people are outside the kingdom until they enter the Lord's teaching. How do we enter the Lord's teaching by being given ears to hear. How are we understanding that? We have been given ears to hear when these parables speak to us in the spiritual reality as well as in just like you said, like this general kind of like in the way that I presume Ryan Holiday means it.

[00:31:12] Jesse Schwamb: The, this is like, he might be exemplifying the fact that these stories. Are a really great form of the ability to communicate complex information or to make you think.

[00:31:21] The Power and Purpose of Parables

[00:31:21] Jesse Schwamb: So when Jesus says something like The kingdom of God is like a mustard seed, wow, we, you and I will probably spend like two episodes just unpacking that, or we could spend a lot more, that's beautiful that that's how his teaching takes place.

[00:31:34] Jesse Schwamb: But of course it's, it's so much. More than that, that those in whom the teaching is effective on a salvation somehow understand it, and their understanding of it becomes first because Christ is implanted within them. Salvation.

[00:31:46] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:48] Parables as More Than Simple Teaching Tools

[00:31:48] Tony Arsenal: I think people, and this is what I think like Ryan Holiday's statement reflects, is people think of the parables as a simple teaching tool to break down a complicated subject.

[00:32:00] Tony Arsenal: Yes. And so, like if I was trying to explain podcasting to a, like a five-year-old, I would say something like, well, you know. You know how your teacher teaches you during class while a podcast is like if your teacher lived on the internet and you could access your teacher anytime. Like, that might be a weird explanation, but like that's taking a very complicated thing about recording and and RSS feeds and you know, all of these different elements that go into what podcasting is and breaking it down to a simple sub that is not what a parable is.

[00:32:30] Tony Arsenal: Right? Right. A parable is not. Just breaking a simple subject down and illustrating it by way of like a, a clever comparison. Um, you know, it's not like someone trying to explain the doctrine of, of the Trinity by using clever analogies or something like that. Even if that were reasonable and impossible.

[00:32:50] Tony Arsenal: It's, it's not like that a parable. I like what you're saying about it being kind of like a mini doctrine of election. It's also a mini doctrine of the Bible. Yes. Right. It, it's right on.

[00:33:00] The Doctrine of Illumination

[00:33:00] Tony Arsenal: It's, it's the doctrine of revelation. In. Preached form in the Ministry of Christ, right? As Christians, we have this text and we affirm that at the same time, uh, what can be known of it and what is necessary for salvation can be known.

[00:33:19] Tony Arsenal: By ordinary means like Bart Iman, an avowed atheist who I, I think like all atheists, whether they recognize it or not, hates God. He can read the Bible and understand that what it means is that if you trust Jesus, you'll be saved. You don't need special spiritual insight to understand that that is what the Bible teaches, where the special spiritual.

[00:33:42] Tony Arsenal: Insight might not be the right word, but the special spiritual appropriation is that the spirit enables you to receive that unto your salvation. Right? To put your trust in. The reality of that, and we call that doctrine, the doctrine of illumination. And so in, in the sense of parables in Christ's ministry, and this is, this is if you, you know, like what do I always say is just read a little bit more, um, the portion Jesse read it leads way into this prophecy or in this comment, Christ.

[00:34:10] Tony Arsenal: Saying he teaches in parable in order to fulfill this prophecy of Isaiah. Basically that like those who are, uh, ate and are apart from God and are resistant to God, these parables there are there in order to confirm that they are. And then it says in verse 16, and this is, this is.

[00:34:27] The Blessing of Spiritual Understanding

[00:34:27] Tony Arsenal: It always seems like the series that we do ends up with like a theme verse, and this is probably the one verse 16 here, Matthew 1316 says, but blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear.

[00:34:40] Tony Arsenal: And so like there's a blessing. In our salvation and in our election that we are enabled to hear and perceive and re receive the very voice and word of God into our spirit unto our salvation. That is the doctrine of of election. It's also the doctrine of regeneration, the doctrine of sanctification, the doctrine.

[00:35:03] Tony Arsenal: I mean, there's all of these different classic reformed doctrines that the parables really are these mic this microcosm of that. Almost like applied in the Ministry of Christ. Right. Which I, I, you know, I've, I've never really thought of it in depth in that way before, but it's absolutely true and it's super exciting to be able to sort of embark on this, uh, on this series journey with, with this group.

[00:35:28] Tony Arsenal: I think it's gonna be so good to just dig into these and really, really hear the gospel preached to ourselves through these parables. That's what I'm looking forward to.

[00:35:38] Jesse Schwamb: And we're used to being very. Close with the idea that like the message contains the doctrine, the message contains the power. Here we're saying, I think it's both.

[00:35:47] Jesse Schwamb: And the mode of that message also contains, the doctrine also contains the power. And I like where you're going with this because I think what we should be reminding ourselves. Is what a blessing it is to have this kind of information conferred to us.

[00:36:01] The Role of Parables in Revealing and Concealing Truth

[00:36:01] Jesse Schwamb: That again, God has taken, what is the secrets that is his to disclose and his to keep and his to hold, and he's made it available to his children.

[00:36:08] Jesse Schwamb: And part of that is for, as you said, like the strengthening of our own faith. It's also for condemnation. So notice that. The hiding of the kingdom through parables is not a consequence of the teaching itself. Again, this goes back to like the mode being as equally important here as the message itself that Christ's teaching is not too difficult to comprehend as an intellectual matter.

[00:36:27] Jesse Schwamb: The thing is, like even today, many unbelievers read the gospels and they technically understand what Jesus means in his teaching, especially these parables. The problem is. I would say like moral hardness. It's that lack of spiritual predilection or predisposition. They know what Jesus teaches, but they do not believe.

[00:36:47] Jesse Schwamb: And so the challenge before us is as all scripture reading, that we would go before the Holy Spirit and say, holy Spirit, help me to believe. Help me to understand what to believe. And it so doing, do the work of God, which is to believe in him and to believe in His son Jesus Christ and what he's accomplished.

[00:37:02] Jesse Schwamb: So the parables are not like creating. Fresh unbelief and sinners instead, like they're confirming the opposition that's already present and apart from Grace, unregenerate perversely use our Lord's teaching to increase their resistance. That's how it's set up. That's how it works. That's why to be on the inside, as it were, not again, because like we've done the right handshake or met all the right standards, but because of the blood of Christ means that the disciples, the first disciples and all the disciples who will follow after them on the other hand.

[00:37:33] The Complexity and Nuances of Parables

[00:37:33] Jesse Schwamb: We've been granted these eyes to see, and ears to hear Jesus. And then we've been given the secrets of the kingdom. I mean, that's literally what we've been given. And God's mercy has been extended to the disciples who like many in the crowds, once ignorantly and stubbornly rejected God and us just like them as well in both accounts.

[00:37:49] Jesse Schwamb: So this is, I think we need to settle on that. You're right, throughout this series, what a blessing. It's not meant to be a great labor or an effort for the child of God. Instead, it's meant to be a way of exploring these fe. Fantastic truths of who God is and what he's done in such a way that draw us in.

[00:38:07] Jesse Schwamb: So that whether we're analyzing again, like the the lost coin or the lost sheep, or. Any number of these amazing parables, you'll notice that they draw us in because they don't give us answers in the explicit sense that we're used to. Like didactically instead. Yeah. They cause us to consider, as you've already said, Tony, like what does it mean to be lost?

[00:38:26] Jesse Schwamb: What does it mean that the father comes running for this prodigal son? What does it mean that the older brother has a beef with the whole situation? What does it mean when Jesus says that the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed? How much do we know about mustard seeds? And why would he say that? Again, this is a kind of interesting teaching, but that illumination in the midst of it being, I don't wanna say ambiguous, but open-ended to a degree means that the Holy Spirit must come in and give us that kind of grand knowledge.

[00:38:55] Jesse Schwamb: But more than that, believe upon what Jesus is saying. I think that's the critical thing, is somebody will say, well, aren't the teaching simple and therefore easy to understand. In a sense, yes. Like factually yes, but in a much greater sense. Absolutely not. And that's why I think it's so beautiful that he quotes Isaiah there because in that original context, you the, you know, you have God delivering a message through Isaiah.

[00:39:17] Jesse Schwamb: Uh. The people are very clear. Like, we just don't believe you're a prophet of God. And like what you're saying is ridiculous, right? And we just don't wanna hear you. This is very different than that. This is, Jesus is giving this message essentially to all who will listen to him, not necessarily hear, but all, all who are hear Him, I guess rather, but not necessarily all who are listening with those spiritual ears.

[00:39:33] Jesse Schwamb: And so this is like, I love the way that he, he uses that quote in a slightly different way, but still to express the same root cause, which is some of you here. Because of your depravity will not be able to hear what I'm saying. But for those to whom it has been granted to come in who are ushered into the kingdom, this kingdom language will make sense.

[00:39:54] Jesse Schwamb: It's like, I'm going to be speaking to you in code and half of you have the key for all the code because the Holy Spirit is your cipher and half of you don't. And you're gonna, you're gonna listen to the same thing, but you will hear very different things.

[00:40:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, the other thing I think is, is interesting to ponder on this, um.

[00:40:12] The Importance of Context in Interpreting Parables

[00:40:12] Tony Arsenal: God always accommodates his revelation to his people. And the parables are, are, are like the. Accommodated accommodation. Yeah. Like God accommodates himself to those he chooses to reveal himself to. And in some ways this is, this is, um, the human ministry of Christ is him accommodating himself to those.

[00:40:38] Tony Arsenal: What I mean is in the human ministry of the Son, the parables are a way of the son accommodating himself to those he chooses to reveal himself to. So there, there are instances. Where the parable is said, and it is, uh, it's seems to be more or less understood by everybody. Nobody asks the question about like, what does this mean?

[00:40:57] Tony Arsenal: Right? And then there are instances where the parable is said, and even the apostles are, or the disciples are like, what does this parable mean? And then there's some interesting ones where like. Christ's enemies understand the parable and, and can understand that the parable is told against them. About them.

[00:41:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. So there, there's all these different nuances to why Christ used these parables, how simple they were, how complicated they were. Yes. And again, I think that underscores what I said at the top of the show here. It's like you can't treat every parable exactly the same. And that's where you run into trouble.

[00:41:28] Tony Arsenal: Like if you're, if you're coming at them, like they're all just simple allegory. Again, like some of them have allegorical elements. I think it's fair to look at the, the prodigal son or the, the prodigal father, however you want to title that. And remember, the titles are not, generally, the titles are not, um, baked into the text itself.

[00:41:46] Tony Arsenal: I think it's fair to come to that and look at and go, okay, well, who's the father in this? Who's the son? You know, what does it mean that the older son is this? Is, is there relevance to the fact that there's a party and that the, you know, the older, older, uh, son is not a part of it? There's, there's some legitimacy to that.

[00:42:02] Tony Arsenal: And when we look at Christ's own explanation of some of his parables, he uses those kinds, right? The, the good seed is this, the, the seed that fell on the, the side of the road is this, right? The seed that got choked out by the, the, um, thorns is this, but then there are others where it doesn't make sense to pull it apart, element by element.

[00:42:21] Tony Arsenal: Mm-hmm. Um, and, and the other thing is there are some things that we're gonna look at that are, um. We're gonna treat as parables that the text doesn't call a parable. And then there are some that you might even look at that sometimes the text calls a parable that we might not even think of as a normal parable, right?

[00:42:38] Tony Arsenal: So there's lots of elements. This is gonna be really fun to just dig stuff in and, and sort of pick it, like pull it apart and look at its component parts and constituent parts. Um, so I really do mean it if you, if you're the kind of person who has never picked up a Bible commentary. This would be a good time to, to start because these can get difficult.

[00:42:59] Tony Arsenal: They can get complicated. You want to have a trusted guide, and Jesse and I are gonna do our, our work and our research on this. Um, but you want someone who's more of a trusted guide than us. This is gonna be the one time that I might actually say Calvin's commentaries are not the most helpful. And the reason for that is not because Calvin's not clear on this stuff.

[00:43:17] Tony Arsenal: Calvin Calvin's commentaries on the gospel is, is a harmony of the gospels, right? So sometimes it's tricky when you're reading it to try to find like a specific, uh, passage in Matthew because you're, you, everything's interwoven. So something like Matthew Henry, um, or something like, um, Matthew Poole. Uh, might be helpful if you're willing to spend a little bit of money.

[00:43:38] Tony Arsenal: The ESV expository commentary that I've referenced before is a good option. Um, but try to find something that's approachable and usable that is reasonable for you to work through the commentary alongside of us, because you are gonna want to spend time reading these on your own, and you're gonna want to, like I said, you're gonna want to have a trust guide with you.

[00:43:55] Tony Arsenal: Even just a good study bible, something like. The Reformation Study Bible or something along those lines would help you work your way through these parables, and I think it's valuable to do that.

[00:44:06] Jesse Schwamb: Something you just said sparked this idea in me that the power, or one of the powers maybe of good fiction is that it grabs your attention.

[00:44:15] The Impact of Parables on Listeners

[00:44:15] Jesse Schwamb: It like brings you into the plot maybe even more than just what I said before about it being resonant, that it actually pulls you into the storyline and it makes you think that it's about other people until it's too late. Yeah. And Jesus has a way of doing this that really only maybe the parable can allow.

[00:44:30] Jesse Schwamb: So like in other words, by the time you realize. A parable is like metaphorical, or even in a limited case, it's allegorical form you've already identified with one or more of the characters and you're caught in the trap. So what comes to my mind there is like the one Old Testament narrative, virtually identical, informed to those Jesus told is Nathan's parable of the You lamb.

[00:44:52] Jesse Schwamb: So that's in like second Samuel 12, and I was just looking this up as you were, as you were speaking. So in this potentially life and death move for the prophet Nathan confronts King David. Over his adultery with, or depending on how you see it, rape of Bathsheba, and then his subsequent murder of her husband Uriah, by sending him to the front lines of battle.

[00:45:10] Jesse Schwamb: So he's killed. And so in this parable that Nathan tells Uriah is like the poor man. Bathsheba is like the Yu a and the rich man obviously represents David. If you, you know what I'm talking about, go back and look at second Samuel 12. And so what's interesting is once David is hooked into that story, he cannot deny that his behavior was unjust as that of the rich man in the story who takes this UAM for himself and he, which he openly.

[00:45:38] Jesse Schwamb: Then David openly condemns of course, like the amazing climax of this. And as the reader who has. Of course, like omniscient knowledge in the story, you know, the plot of things, right? You're, you're already crying out, like you're throwing something, you know, across the room saying like, how can you not see this about you?

[00:45:53] Jesse Schwamb: And of course the climax comes in when Nathan points the finger at David and declares, you are the man. And that's kind of what. The parables due to us. Yes. They're not always like the same in accusatory toward us, but they do call us out. This is where, again, when we talk about like the scripture reading us, the parable is particularly good at that because sometimes we tend to identify, you know, again, with like one of the particular characters whom we probably shouldn't identify with, or like you said, the parable, the sower.

[00:46:22] Jesse Schwamb: Isn't the Christian always quick to be like, I am the virtual grounds? Yeah. You still have to ask like, you know, there is not like a Paul washer way of doing this, but there is like a way of saying like, checking yourself before you wreck yourself there. And so when Jesus's parables have lost some of that shock value in today's world, we maybe need to contemporize them a little bit.

[00:46:43] Jesse Schwamb: I, and I think we'll talk about that as we go through it. We're not rewriting them for any reason that that would be completely inappropriate. Think about this though. Like the Jew robbed and left for dead. And you know the story of the Grace Samaritan may need to become like the white evangelical man who is helped by like the black Muslim woman after the senior pastor and the worship leader from the local reformed church passed by like that.

[00:47:05] Jesse Schwamb: That might be the frame, which we should put it to try to understand it whenever we face a hostile audience that this indirect rhetoric of compelling stories may help at least some people hear God's world more favorably, and I think that's why you get both like a soft. And a sharp edge with these stories.

[00:47:20] Jesse Schwamb: But it's the ability to, to kind of come in on the sneak attack. It's to make you feel welcomed in and to identify with somebody. And then sometimes to find that you're identifying entirely with a character whom Jesus is gonna say, listen, don't be this way, or This is what the kingdom of God is, is not like this.

[00:47:35] Jesse Schwamb: Or again, to give you shock value, not for the sake of telling like a good tale that somehow has a twist where it's like everybody was actually. All Dead at the end. Another movie, by the way, I have not seen, but I just know that that's like, I'll never see that movie because, can we say it that the spoiler is, is out on that, right?

[00:47:54] Tony Arsenal: Are we, what are we talking about? What movie are we talking about?

[00:47:56] Jesse Schwamb: Well, I don't, I don't wanna say it. I didn't

[00:47:57] Tony Arsenal: even get it from your description. Oh.

[00:47:59] Jesse Schwamb: Like that, that movie where like, he was dead the whole time.

[00:48:02] Tony Arsenal: Oh, this, that, that, that movie came out like 30 years ago, Jesse. Oh, seriously?

[00:48:06] Jesse Schwamb: Okay. All right.

[00:48:06] Tony Arsenal: So Six Sense.

[00:48:07] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. That movie came out a long time ago.

[00:48:10] Jesse Schwamb: So it's not like the parables are the sixth sense, and it's like, let me get you like a really cool twist. Right. Or like hook at the end. I, and I think in part it is to disarm you and to draw you in in such a way that we might honestly consider what's happening there.

[00:48:22] Jesse Schwamb: And that's how it reads us.

[00:48:24] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I, I think that's a good point. And, and. It bears saying there are all sorts of parables all throughout the Bible. It's not just Jesus that teaches these, and they do have this similar effect that they, they draw you in. Um, oftentimes you identify it preliminarily, you identify with the wrong person, and it's not until you.

[00:48:45] Tony Arsenal: Or you don't identify with anyone when you should. Right. Right. And it's not until the sort of punchline or I think that account with Nathan is so spot on because it's the same kind of thing. David did not have ears to hear.

[00:48:58] Jesse Schwamb: Right. Until he had That's good point. Ears

[00:49:00] Tony Arsenal: to hear.

[00:49:00] Jesse Schwamb: Good point.

[00:49:01] Tony Arsenal: And he heard the point of the parable.

[00:49:03] Tony Arsenal: He understood the point of the parable and he didn't understand that the parable was about him, right? It's like the ultimate, I don't know why you're clapping David, I'm talking about you moment. Um, I'm just have this picture of Paul washer in like a biblical era robe. Um, so I think that's a enough progam to the series.

[00:49:20] Preparing for the Series on Parables

[00:49:20] Tony Arsenal: We're super excited we're, we'll cover some of these principles again, because again, different parables have to be interpreted different ways, and some of these principles apply to one and don't to others, and so we'll, we'll tease that out when we get there next week. We're gonna just jump right in.

[00:49:34] Tony Arsenal: We're gonna get started with, I think, um, I actually think, you know, in the, the providence of, of the Holy Spirit and the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and then obviously the providence of God in Christ's ministry, the, the parable that kind of like frames all of the other parables, right? Is the parable of the sower In many ways, the parable of the sower is this doctrine we're talking about in parable form, right?

[00:49:57] Tony Arsenal: It's that some people have ears to hear and they receive the parable. Some people don't. So we'll tease all that out. And you know what some of these parables have? Parallels in other gospels. Um, we may not cover all of the parallels. We may say the, you know, the, the sower, the parable of the sower doesn't have much nuance.

[00:50:18] Tony Arsenal: And I'm just using this as an example 'cause I haven't really gotten there yet. But we may say like, yeah, well the parable in the sower in Matthew, there's not much in Mark's account or Luke's account that gives us a shade of meaning and it's not worth doing its own episode Sometimes I think we're gonna see that actually.

[00:50:33] Tony Arsenal: The different variations and the different um. Shades of meaning that are are given in other accounts is worth spending one episode on. Sometimes we're gonna go through a parable. It's gonna be one episode. Sometimes we're gonna have to camp out on a parable for many episodes 'cause it's just that dense theologically and textually.

[00:50:51] Tony Arsenal: So make sure you're tuning in. Make sure you've got your Bible and your commentary handy.

[00:50:56] Engaging with the Reformed Brotherhood Community

[00:50:56] Tony Arsenal: Um, jump into the telegram chat. If you're, if you're not a part of the Telegram chat t me slash reform brotherhood. Tell us what you think. Tell us when we get it wrong. Tell us when we get it right. Um, share with us how this series is helping you.

[00:51:09] Tony Arsenal: How, how what you need from us, what we can do to better help you understand the scripture. Um, we really, really want this series to be something that's useful for you. I know it's gonna be useful for me and Jesse and we would do the show even Right on if nobody listen to it. That's right. Because we both get such spiritual benefit out of these, these.

[00:51:26] Tony Arsenal: The prep and the discussion, um, but tell us what's useful to you as well. We really want to hear that.

[00:51:32] Jesse Schwamb: Right. That's right on. I'm glad you said that because I was thinking we should give the listener, if they have ears to hear a little heads up on, because we've got four gospels, three predominantly, which you're gonna find some glorious repetition that we're going to hit some of the things, same things from slightly different perspectives 'cause God has given us that to do.

[00:51:50] Jesse Schwamb: Right. So we'll be looking at a parable, but we might also be asking at times, but does it parallel? So we'll also be asking that from time to time and that might feel like, are we take, why are we taking so much time and going? Because it's all there in the scriptures. Loved ones like to sit in this and you all know by now that like our style is the crockpot.

[00:52:08] Jesse Schwamb: It's low and slow. So we are going to hang out at a speed that allows us, I think, to really steep in all of what God is giving us to learn here. And so the best way you can hang out with us, and I hope you will hang out with us. Is take the advice Tony just gave you. It's good advice and that is just go to t me slash reform brotherhood that will kick you over to a link in the Telegram app, which is basically a giant group chat and we have our own little court and to off part of the world, I guess it's the own little reform brotherhood speakeasy, except like there's no secret knock.

[00:52:41] Jesse Schwamb: You can just come in and then interact. There's a bunch of different channels there, or discussion threads. One of them is reserved just for episodes. So if you hear something and you have a question or you wanna see what everybody else is thinking about that or talking about, because what I love about it is that it's mostly people having their own conversations.

[00:52:57] Jesse Schwamb: Just like you and I are having a conversation right now. It's other voices being brought in. So don't just take our word for it, like, come, come in and hang out. I got stuck there because don't take our word for it. Isn't that like an old LaVar Burton quote from like reading Rainbow.

[00:53:13] Tony Arsenal: Uh, do you know Reading Rainbow?

[00:53:15] Tony Arsenal: I do know Reading Rainbow. That doesn't seem right. Take a look. Maybe it is. It's in a book. Yeah, take a look. It's in a book. It's a book. It's, it's reading. Reading Rainbow.

[00:53:23] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. That was good. I thought it was like, you know, don't take my word for it. Anyway, all that to say, come hang out. And if you have this burning question, like how is it that this podcast just shows up all the time, weekly.

[00:53:37] Jesse Schwamb: How is it that it's free of charge? When doesn't it seem like, wow, this is just so good. The segues are so cunning, the, the banter is so beautiful, like surely this must be, or her, surely I should be paying for this. Well, guess what? No, you're never gonna pay for it because there are brothers and sisters who give to the podcast to make sure that it continues to go out into the world.

[00:54:00] Jesse Schwamb: And to sound okay and allows us, as we give towards it, to make sure that it's free for you. So if you're feeling like you'd like to do something about that, honestly, if you've been listening for a while and you thought, you know what? I have a little bit. I would love to give one time or a small amount regularly.

[00:54:15] Jesse Schwamb: We are so grateful for those who give because truly that's what keeps it going and going online instead of just Tony and I talking over the phone about this, this stuff, which, which we would do and we would

[00:54:25] Tony Arsenal: do.

[00:54:26] Jesse Schwamb: Well. So if you're interested in that, uh, you can do us all a favor and go to patreon.comReform Brotherhood, and there's all kinds of information there on how to give last, very last.

[00:54:39] Jesse Schwamb: If you are just listening to us for the first time. Or maybe you've just joined the Reformed Brotherhood, you got into Telegram Chat and you're like, there are other episodes. There are other episodes, and if you can't find them in your podcasting app, a really great way to go and search one down to track down a particular topic.

[00:54:56] Jesse Schwamb: Listen, love one. There's, there's 459 over that many hours. Of us just talking online about all kinds of topics. We've probably talked about something related to the question you have or the thing you're just thinking about, or maybe you're just like, what do these two weird guys have to say about this?

[00:55:11] Jesse Schwamb: Just go to reform brotherhood.com. All of the episodes are living out there. They're waiting for you. They, they want you to listen to them and just interact. You could take a whole year and more just listening to a single episode a day. You still wouldn't be caught up yet to where we are right now, so that, that's a challenge.

[00:55:26] Jesse Schwamb: Some have been with us that long, Tony.

[00:55:27] Tony Arsenal: It's true. It's true there. There have been people that have listened to more than 460 hours of us, which is. Wow. I'm not sure it's an honor. I guess like, I'd like to thank the academy, uh, and all of the people who made this possible. But yeah, it's, it's, it's crazy.

[00:55:47] Tony Arsenal: There's a lot of our voices out there on the internet and there are a lot of people who've been with us from the beginning. So if you do wanna check it out, uh, you can go to reform brotherhood.com. There's an episode, um, there's an episodes tab. Uh, you can search for a topic. You can just scroll through until you see a, a subject that, uh, catches your fancy.

[00:56:06] Tony Arsenal: And you can listen to it there on the website. The best way to listen to the show is to subscribe through your favorite podcast app, something like Apple Podcasts or Podcast Pod catcher Podbean. Pretty much any app you find on your app store that has the word pod in it is gonna be able to get our show, uh, and that that would be great if you would subscribe.

[00:56:24] Tony Arsenal: It does a, it makes a big difference. Uh, in terms of you being able to get the show on time and know that it's coming, uh, please do check it out and subscribe and leave a rating. If you are on a podcast platform that has a rating option, we would love to hear what you think. Uh, we do read all those ratings and we take the feedback seriously.

[00:56:41] Tony Arsenal: Uh, we would really appreciate that.

[00:56:44] Conclusion and Encouragement for Listeners

[00:56:44] Jesse Schwamb: What have we learned on this episode? I think we've learned something about, or come to appreciate maybe in a renewed way, the power of the narrative. How the teaching that Jesus brings us in the parables have so much pregnant meaning both in the message and the mode in which they're delivered to us, they ra in are enshrined in all of this great theological content.

[00:57:04] Jesse Schwamb: And there's gonna be so much then for us too. Eat and feast on because they're, for us, they're a blessing for God's people. And a secret message, as it were for those who have the spiritual predilection and the spiritual predisposition that is for those who have been regenerate. So more than just like, can I get more knowledge?

[00:57:26] Jesse Schwamb: I think as you encouraged us early on in this episode, Tony, they are a blessing for us to renew and strengthen our faith, to give us great encouragement, to draw us closer to Jesus, to love God more and better and to appreciate and enjoy him. So you're got a warning, love ones strap in block up 'cause we've got a lots of parables ahead.

[00:57:49] Jesse Schwamb: And you know how it goes when I say para, you say

[00:57:53] Tony Arsenal: ball. Well, on that note, Jesse, we'll have to, we'll have to workshop that a, anybody out there's got better rhythm than me and Jesse can figure that out. That'd be great. Uh, on that note, Jesse, I'm super stoked. I'm really excited. The sooner that we get this episode done, the sooner our episode can start for the next one.

[00:58:13] Tony Arsenal: So until then, Jesse, honor everyone. Love the brotherhood.