Reformed Brotherhood | Reformed Theology and Brotherly Love
Honor Everyone, Love the Brotherhood Hey brother! When you join the Church, you join a family. The Reformed Brotherhood delivers a definitive episode each week that will have you so excited you’ll feel like running through a wall. Hosted by Jesse and Tony, who have over 400 episodes under their belts, our podcast offers a confessional approach to exploring Reformed doctrines, church history, and practical Christian living, all grounded in the teachings of the Bible. Join us as we dive into rich discussions, featuring insights from our friend Reginald and unique “Fergusonisms,” while tightly coupling these elements for a deep understanding of our faith. Subscribe, become a patron, share the episodes, and connect with our community in the lively Telegram chat!
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Counting the Cost, Gaining Everything: The Joy of Kingdom Surrender
11/14/2025
Counting the Cost, Gaining Everything: The Joy of Kingdom Surrender
In this thought-provoking episode, Tony and Jesse delve into Jesus's twin parables of the hidden treasure and the pearl of great price from Matthew 13:44-46. They explore the profound economic metaphor Jesus uses to illustrate the incomparable value of the Kingdom of Heaven. Through careful examination of both parables, they discuss what it means to "count the cost" of following Christ while simultaneously recognizing that no earthly sacrifice can compare to the infinite worth of gaining Christ. The conversation moves between practical application—considering how believers assess value in their spiritual lives—and deeper theological reflections on Christ's perfect sacrifice that makes our entrance into the Kingdom possible in the first place. Key Takeaways The Kingdom of Heaven has such surpassing value that sacrificing everything to obtain it is considered a joyful exchange, not a loss. Both parables show different paths to discovering the Kingdom (unexpected finding vs. intentional seeking), but identical responses: selling everything to obtain the treasure. The parables are not primarily commanding material poverty, but rather illustrating the "sold-outness" required in pursuing the Kingdom of God. Counting the cost of discipleship is not only permissible but necessary to fully appreciate the value of what we gain in Christ. The ultimate treasure we receive in salvation is not merely benefits like eternal life, but God Himself—union with Christ and fellowship with the Trinity. Christ Himself is the one who ultimately fulfills these parables perfectly, giving everything to purchase us as His treasure. The irresistible draw of the Kingdom illustrates how God's grace works in the heart of believers, compelling joyful surrender. Exploring the Incomparable Value of the Kingdom The economic metaphor Jesus employs in these parables is striking—both the hidden treasure and the pearl are deemed so valuable that the discoverers "sell all they have" to obtain them. As Tony and Jesse point out, this transaction reveals something profound about how we should view the Kingdom of Heaven. It's not simply that the Kingdom is valuable; it's that its value so far exceeds anything else we possess that the comparison becomes almost absurd. As Tony notes, "For sure the worth of the kingdom of heaven surpasses anything we could imagine... there's no measure that is satisfying, there's no measure that can actually show us how worthwhile it is." This perspective transforms how we understand sacrifice in the Christian life. When opportunities or comforts are foregone because of our faith, we're not simply losing something—we're experiencing the reality that we've chosen something infinitely more valuable. The parables teach us to view these moments not with regret but with a clearer vision of the treasure we've received in Christ. The Ultimate Prize: God Himself Perhaps the most powerful insight from the discussion is the realization that the ultimate treasure of salvation is not the benefits we receive, but God Himself. As Tony eloquently states: "All of those things are attending gifts. But what we get in salvation ultimately is we get God... we get union with God, we get fellowship with Jesus Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. We get swept up into the life of the Trinity... We gain the relationship that the son has with the father by nature. We gain that by grace and nothing can compare to that." This perspective reshapes how we understand the value proposition of the gospel. It's not merely that we receive eternal life, freedom from suffering, or other benefits—though these are real. The pearl of great price is relationship with God Himself. This helps explain why both men in the parables respond with such dramatic, all-encompassing sacrifice. When we truly grasp what's being offered, nothing seems too great a price to pay. Memorable Quotes "What we get in salvation ultimately is we get God. We get union with God, we get fellowship with Jesus Christ in the power of the Holy Spirit. We get swept up into the life of the Trinity... We gain the relationship that the son has with the father by nature. We gain that by grace and nothing can compare to that." — Tony Arsenal "I often say in my own line of work, that cost only matters in the absence of value... it's like at the end of days when we think about the worthiness of our God, that there's no one like him, that he's unequal, that he has no rival, that the gospel is the sweetest message that we're rescued literally from the pit. We'll just say no matter what the cost of us personally, great or small, totally worth it." — Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript [00:00:08] Tony Arsenal: All of those things are attending gifts. But what we get in salvation ultimately is we get God we get union with God, we get fellowship with Jesus Christ in the, the power of the Holy Spirit. We, we get swept up into the life of the, the God of the universe. Like the life of the Trinity indwells us. And we, we become a part of that. We get swept up into that. We gain the relationship that the son has with the father by nature. We gain that by grace and nothing can compare to that. [00:00:47] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 469 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. [00:00:54] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. [00:00:59] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Discussing the Value of the Kingdom of Heaven [00:01:00] Jesse Schwamb: Speaking of ears to hear, we're back at it again with a whole new, or let's say different parable from our Lord and Savior Jesus. And we've been talking about how really these parables give us this view of the face of heaven through these earthly glasses. And I am pretty interested in our conversation about what's coming up because sometimes we don't like to put too fine a points to our, our point of question to our faith. And in this case, we're gonna get to ask the question, what is it all worth, this kingdom of heaven, this rule and reign of Christ? What is it all about? Who are the beneficiaries of it? And what is it all actually worth? There's a little bit of economics in this, so we're gonna get there. And while we talk and do a little affirming or denying, you should just go ahead write to just skip, go. Do not collect $200 or maybe. Pass, go and collect $200. I dunno. But just go to Matthew chapter 13 and hang out there for just a second. Affirmations and Denials [00:01:58] Jesse Schwamb: But first, I'm always curious to know whenever we talk, are you gonna affirm with something or are you gonna die against something? We've been on a string of lots of affirmations, but I'd like to think that's just because we're fun, loving, optimistic people. But there was a day where we had to do both. And now that I only have to choose one, I do find myself gravitating almost naturally toward the affirming width. But I leave it to you, Tony, are you affirming with or denying against? [00:02:22] Tony Arsenal: I, unfortunately am denying tonight. Technical Issues with Apple Podcasts [00:02:25] Tony Arsenal: So you and I already talked about it a little bit, but uh, I'm denying Apple Podcast Connect. Oh yes. So, uh, I. Obviously, like if you're affected by this, you're not hearing the episode 'cause it's not updating for you. But, uh, if you happen to be using Apple to listen to the podcast and for some reason you're listening somewhere else, maybe you realize that the podcast has not been updating for several weeks. And so you went to a different podcast catcher. Um, apple just decided for some reason that none of our feeds were gonna update. No good reason. So I've got a ticket out to Apple and hopefully we'll get it fixed. Uh, if you do know someone who listens to the show and they use Apple, please tell them to subscribe to something else or to, uh, go to the website. You can get all of the, all of the episodes on our website. You could go to Spotify, you could do something like, uh, overcast or PocketCasts. Um, it really is just Apple. It's, it's the actual account that we use to, uh, to access. Apple's Directory is not pulling new episodes and it's not pulling new episodes on another show that I run as well. So, uh, it's not just this show, it's not our RSS feed. These things happen. It'll, you know, you'll get four or five episodes all at one time. When it, when it corrects itself, usually they're pretty quick. I put in a ticket like late on Friday afternoon, so I didn't expect them to get to it on, uh, Saturday or Sunday. So hopefully by the time you're hearing this, uh, it's resolved. I would hope so, because that means it would be about a week from today. Um, so hopefully they'll have a resolve. But yeah, it's just th thorns and thistles. This is our own, our own, uh, manifestation of the curse here in this little labor that we do. It's, it's thorns and thistles right now, but no big deal. Just, uh, catch up when you can. And, uh, yeah, so denying Apple Podcasts now, really, it's, it's a great service and this is a, a little glitch. It's, it's just a little frustrating. [00:04:20] Jesse Schwamb: The sweat of our brow. Yes. Here it is. We're just toiling over getting Apple to please release our episodes. Well, it'll be your happy day if you use Apple Podcasts and then get a bunch of them all at once. That's fantastic. It's like the gift that is over in abundance. Supporting The Reformed Brotherhood [00:04:36] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it is a good reminder that you just said, Tony, that everybody should go, just take some time. Head on over to our form brotherhood.com. You can find all the other 400 some odd episodes living over there. And while you're over there and you're perusing or searching by topic to see what we've talked about before, you're probably gonna think to yourself, this is so incredible. How is this compendium, this omnibus of all these episodes just hanging out here free of cost? And I'm so glad you're thinking about that because there are so many lovely brothers and sisters who have decided just to give a little bit to make sure that all that stuff gets hosted for free for you Yeah. And for us, so that anybody can go and explore it and find content that we hope will be edifying. So if that's something you're interested in, maybe you've been listening for a while and thought, you know what? I would like to give a little bit one time or reoccurring, we would love to, for you to join us in that mission. You can go to patreon.com/reform brotherhood, and there's all the information for you to give if that's something that you feel you would like to do, and we would be grateful for you to do it. [00:05:32] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. We, we have a group of people who support the show. They make it possible for your, uh, your ear holes to be filled with our voices. And, uh, but again, you know, the costs are going up all around and, and we would, uh, certainly love to have people partner with us. Um, we've committed to making show that the, making sure that the show is free and available. Um, it's never our intention to put anything behind a paywall or to, to barrier and in that way, but we can only do that if there's people who are supporting the show and making, making sure that we've got the funding that we need to, to keep going. So, thank you to everybody who gives, thank you to anyone who's considering it, uh, and thanking anybody who decides to, uh, jump on board with that. [00:06:11] Jesse Schwamb: Right on. We're appreciative who we really are. [00:06:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. So Jesse, what are you affirming or denying today? Exploring Open Webcam DB [00:06:16] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, this is what I've kind of done before, but I think I've found a new place for it. I just am continually impressed and fall in love with how great and big and lovely God's world is. So I love these types of sites that give you insight into this great big world, even if it's in unexpected places or maybe in strange places. So I'm affirming with a website called Open webcam db.com. Open webcam db.com. And it's exactly like what it sounds like. It's a database that has something like 2000 live cameras streaming daily from over 50 countries, all searchable by a category. So you can find natural landscapes, airports, construction sites, and one of my recent favorites, honestly, and this is. It's so strange, but kind of awesome is this warehouse, it's called Chinese Robotic Warehouse Buzz, and it's just robots moving pallets around or like stacks of all of these items. It's mesmerizing. But I would encourage you go to open webcam db.com, search for like your stage or your country. You'll find so many amazing things. So I've sat and just watched, you know, between tasks or when you know you just need a break or you're just curious about the world. Like I look, I watched the Krakow Maine Market Square quite a bit because it's. Beautiful and brilliant, and to think about the people moving to and fro and what they're doing, what their lives are like. There's some great scenes from San Francisco Bay. There is a bird feeder in Gettysburg, Pennsylvania that I often watch. So of course, like go out as we've said, and live and breathe and be in your own communities. And as well, if you're looking at scratch that itch of just seeing all these different places, all the different things that are happening in God's created world, I can firmly and unreservedly recommend open webcam db.com for that. [00:07:58] Tony Arsenal: Nice, nice, uh, little known fact at one point, Dartmouth Hitchcock, which is the hospital that I worked for, had to block a penguin cam, uh, because it was causing such a productivity drain combined with an actual measurable decrease in internet bandwidth at the hospital. 'cause so many people were watching this little penguin cam at some zoo in Boston. I think it probably was. Yeah, I, I love this kind of stuff. I think this kind of stuff is great. Uh, I use, uh, Dartmouth College has a, like a live one that I use all the time, especially when we're trying to figure out what the weather's gonna do. You can see it on the camera. Uh, we, we often will, you know, see, especially as we get closer to the season when we're talking about traveling to the beach and whatnot, uh, often look at the ocean grove. Oh, that's right. Uh, pier cam. So yeah, check it out. Uh, sounds like a fun time. Do not share it with too many of your friends at work. Or it may crash the network and Yeah. But [00:08:53] Jesse Schwamb: yeah, for [00:08:54] Tony Arsenal: sure. That was a funny email that they had to send out. I remember that [00:08:57] Jesse Schwamb: for sure. Use, use the penguin cam responsibly. I just did a quick search. There are four different penguin cams. Uh, three of them are in the United States, one is in New Zealand, and you better believe I'm gonna be checking those bad boys out. Yes. I didn't even think about. The penguin feature here and penguins are an amazing animal. Like we could stop right now and just shift our topic to penguins if you want to. [00:09:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. ' [00:09:16] Jesse Schwamb: cause there's so much there. And the spiritual truths are so broad and deep, but I just think penguins are kind of undervalued. Birds. Everybody should go check them out. [00:09:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're pretty cool. [00:09:28] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Um, I'm like, I will watch any Penguin documentary and just be astounded by Penguin. Like, whether they're Emperor Penguins or South African Penguin, wherever. I just think they're phenomenal and hilarious and seem to be living the dream. And he doesn't want a little bit of that. [00:09:46] Tony Arsenal: You just gotta get Morgan Freeman to do the voiceover in any documentary or, or nature documentary is better with Morgan Freeman doing the voiceover. [00:09:55] Jesse Schwamb: Well, I all, this might be a deep cut real quick, but I just learned this, and I'm guessing some of our listening brothers and sisters probably already know this. Maybe you do too, Tony. So, Benedict Cumberbatch, do you know where I'm going with this? Yep, [00:10:06] Tony Arsenal: yep. Pen wing. [00:10:07] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I didn't. I cannot say that word or stumbles over its pronunciation. He did some kind of big documentary in which Penguins played at least some part. Yeah. And they were in an interview. They were giving him such a hard time because they played his reading of it like within the same kind of five minutes. And his, the word just kept degenerating in his mouth every time he said it. So it became like almost undistinguishable from the actual word. And it's like initial pronunciation. It was so hilarious. Apparently it's a big joke on the internet and I just didn't know it. [00:10:38] Tony Arsenal: Especially for someone like Bent Cumberbatch who just is, uh, like he's a world-class voice actor. [00:10:44] Jesse Schwamb: Right. [00:10:45] Tony Arsenal: And like a super smart ude guy and he just can't say the word penguin and penguin. Yeah. [00:10:51] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. He said, you got everybody go look it up. 'cause it is super hilarious. And now it's kind of gotten stuck in my head. But um, again, this suddenly became like the All Penguin episode all of a sudden. [00:11:01] Tony Arsenal: I mean like, he can pronounce his own last name just fine, but the word penguin escapes him. I like to call 'em blueberry crumble bottom or whatever. Crumble bunch. [00:11:11] Jesse Schwamb: Uh, see that's the good stuff right there. That's what everybody we know. This is what you all tune in for. This is what you're missing when Apple Podcast doesn't send everything out on time. Yeah. You're welcome. [00:11:22] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. The Parable of the Hidden Treasure and the Pearl [00:11:23] Tony Arsenal: Well, Jesse, why don't we, why don't we get into it? Because you know it, it's interesting. Let's [00:11:27] Jesse Schwamb: get into it. [00:11:28] Tony Arsenal: Well, it's interesting because when you, you know, you kind of, we, we sort of do the little lead to the episode and I, I suddenly realized that I think I've been interpreting this parable very differently than maybe you have or other people. Great. Do, uh, because I, I think I, I think I might have a different take on it. Let, let's do it. Yeah. So let's get into it. Uh, do you have the, the text in friend you wanna read? Uh, why don't we just do 44 all the way through 46? We'll do both parables in one reading. We'll come back and talk about it. [00:11:54] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Sorry, everybody. So here's a two for one for you. Beginning in where we're in verse 44 of Matthew chapter 13. This is Jesus speaking. The kingdom of heaven is like treasure hidden in a field which a man found and covered up. Then in his joy, he goes and sells all that he has and buys that field again. The kingdom of heaven is like a merchant in search of fine pearls, who on finding one pearl of great value, went and sold all that he had and bought it. Interpreting the Parables [00:12:22] Tony Arsenal: I think maybe this is the, like the beauty of parables, uh, when Christ doesn't give us a interpretation. I, I think we're, we're, we're not free to like make up whatever we want, but these kinds of teaching tools are useful because the fact that there can be multiple interpretations actually is, is probably intentional. [00:12:43] Jesse Schwamb: Right. [00:12:43] Tony Arsenal: So it's funny because I think when you intro the episode here, it sounds like you're going to the kingdom of Heaven being a treasure hidden in a field, being something that we should sell everything we have and go after. And when I read this, I read it as the kingdom of Heaven is like a treasure hidden a field. And the man who is Jesus goes and sells all that. He has. He gives all that he has and buys the field. So, and I, I think this is one of those ones where like. Probably both...
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When Weakness Becomes Strength: Finding Hope in the Quiet Work of God's Kingdom
11/07/2025
When Weakness Becomes Strength: Finding Hope in the Quiet Work of God's Kingdom
In this illuminating episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony explore Jesus' parables of the mustard seed and leaven found in Matthew 13. These seemingly simple parables reveal profound truths about God's kingdom—how it begins imperceptibly, grows irresistibly, and transforms completely. The hosts delve into what these parables teach us about God's sovereign work in both our individual spiritual lives and the broader advance of His kingdom in the world. Believers can find hope in understanding that God intentionally works through what appears weak and insignificant to accomplish His purposes. This episode offers practical encouragement for Christians who may feel discouraged by the apparent smallness of their faith or ministry impact. Key Takeaways The kingdom of heaven begins in small, hidden, or seemingly insignificant ways, but grows powerfully through God's sovereign work. The mustard seed illustrates the kingdom's visible expansion (extensive growth), while the leaven highlights its internal transformative influence (intensive growth). Both parables emphasize that God's kingdom often appears to "disappear" initially but produces outsized results through His work, not our own. These parables provide encouragement for times when the church feels weak or our personal faith feels insufficient—God's power is made perfect in weakness. God's kingdom transforms both outwardly (extensive growth illustrated by the mustard seed) and inwardly (intensive growth shown by the leaven). Cultural transformation happens most effectively through ordinary Christian faithfulness rather than flashy or provocative engagement. Christians should not despise small beginnings, recognizing that faithfulness rather than visibility is the true measure of fruitfulness. Understanding Kingdom Growth: From Imperceptible to Unstoppable The parables of the mustard seed and leaven powerfully illustrate the paradoxical nature of God's kingdom. In both cases, something tiny and seemingly insignificant produces results far beyond what anyone would expect. As Tony noted in the discussion, what's critical is understanding the full comparison Jesus makes—the kingdom isn't simply like a seed or leaven in isolation, but like the entire process of planting and growth. Both parables involve something that initially "disappears" from sight (the seed buried in soil, the leaven mixed into dough) before producing its effect. This reflects the upside-down nature of God's kingdom work, where what appears weak becomes the channel of divine power. For first-century Jewish listeners expecting a triumphant, militaristic Messiah, Jesus' description of the kingdom as beginning small would have seemed offensive or disappointing. Yet this is precisely God's pattern—beginning with what appears weak to demonstrate His sovereign power. This same pattern is evident in the incarnation itself, where God's kingdom arrived not through military conquest but through a humble birth and ultimately through the cross. Finding Hope When Faith Feels Small One of the most practical applications from these parables is the encouragement they offer when we feel our faith is insufficient or when the church appears weak. As Jesse noted, "God is always working. Even when we don't feel or see that He is, He's always working." The kingdom of God advances not through human strength or visibility but through God's sovereign work. These parables remind us that spiritual growth often happens imperceptibly—like bread rising or a seed growing. We may go through seasons where our spiritual life feels dry or stagnant, yet God continues His sanctifying work. Just as a baker must be patient while bread rises, we must trust the invisible work of the Holy Spirit in our lives and in the church. When we feel discouraged by apparent lack of progress, these parables assure us that God's kingdom—both in our hearts and in the world—is advancing according to His perfect timing and plan. As Tony explained, "The fact that it feels and looks and may actually be very small does not rob it of its power...in actuality that smallness is its power." God deliberately works through weakness to display His glory, making these parables powerful reminders for believers in any era who may feel their impact is too small to matter. Memorable Quotes "We shouldn't despise small beginnings. Let's not despise whatever it is that you're doing in service to God, to your family, to your churches, especially in the proclamation of the gospel... Faithfulness and not visibility—that's the measure of fruitfulness." — Jesse Schwamb "The Kingdom of Heaven is at work not only in our midst as a corporate body, but in each of us as well. God's grace and His special providence and His spirit of sanctification, the Holy Spirit is the spirit of holiness and the one who makes us holy. He is doing that whether it feels like it or not, whether we see outward progress or not." — Tony Arsenal "What cultural transformation looks like is a man who gets married and loves his wife well, serves her and sacrifices for her, and makes a bunch of babies and brings them to church... We transform culture by being honest, having integrity, by working hard... without a lot of fanfare, without seeking a lot of accolades." — Tony Arsenal Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 468 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey, brother, you and I have said it over and over again. One of the incredible truths that the Bible conveys about the kingdom of God is that it's inaugurated in weakness. It's hidden. It advances irresistibly by the sovereign work of God through the Word and the Spirit. It transforms both individuals and nations until Christ's reign is fully revealed in glory. And so as we're about to talk about parables today, I can't help but think if that's one of the central positions of the Bible, and I think we both say it is how would you communicate that? And here we find Jesus, the son of God, our great savior, you know where he goes. He goes, mustard seeds and yeast. So that's what we're gonna talk about today. And if you're just joining us maybe for the first time or you're jumping into this little series, which is to say, we do know tiny series, this long series on parables, you, I go back to the last episode, which is kind of a two-parter because Tony and I tried this experiment where we basically each separately recorded our own thoughts and conversation, almost an inner monologue as we digested each of those parables, both the one of the mustard seed and then the leaven sequentially and separately. And now we're coming together in this episode to kind of talk about it together and to see what we thought of the individual work and to bring it all together in this grand conversation about the kingdom of God that's inaugurated and weakness and hiddenness. [00:02:31] Affirmations and Denials Explained Jesse Schwamb: So that's this episode, but it wouldn't be a episode without a little affirming. And a little denying it seems, 22, we should this, every now and again we pause to say why we do the affirmations and denials. Why, why do we do this? What, what is this whole thing? Why are we bringing it into our little conversation every time? Tony Arsenal: Yeah. I mean, it, it, at its core, it's kind of like a recommendation or an anti recommendation segment. We take something that we like or we don't like and we spend a little bit of time talking about it. Usually it ends up taking a little bit of a theological bent just 'cause that's who we are and that's what we do. And we use the language of affirmations and denials, uh, because that's classic, like reformed confessional language. Right? If you look at something like the, um. I dunno, like the Chicago statement on Biblical and Errancy, which was primarily written by RC sprawl, um, it usually has a, a statement, uh, of doctrine in the form of things that we affirm and things that we deny. Um, or you look at someone like Turin, a lot of times in his, uh, institutes of elected theology. He'll have something like, we affirm this with the Lutherans, or we affirm that or de deny that against the papus or something like that. So it's just a, a little bit of a fun gimmick that we've added on top of this to sort of give it a little bit of its own reformed flavor, uh, onto something that's otherwise somewhat, um, Baal or, or I don't know, sort of vanilla. So we like it. It's a good chance for us to chat, kind of timestamps the episode with where we are in time. And usually, usually, like I said, we end up with something sort of theological out of it. 'cause that's, that's just the nature of us and that's, that's the way it goes. That's, and that's what happens, like when we're talking about stuff we. Like when we're together at Christmas or at the beach, like things take that theological shift because that's just who, who we are, and that's what we're thinking about. Jesse Schwamb: By the way, that sounds like a new CBS drama coming this fall. The nature of us. Tony Arsenal: The nature of us? Yeah. Or like a, like a hallmark channel. Jesse Schwamb: It does, uh, Tony Arsenal: it's like a a, I'm picturing like the, the big city girl who moves out to take a job as a journalist in like Yosemite and falls in love with the park ranger and it's called The Nature of Us. Jesse Schwamb: The nature of us Yes. Coming this fall to CBS 9:00 PM on Thursdays. Yeah. I love it. Well, this is our homage to that great theological tradition of the affirming with, or the denying against. So what do you got this week? Are you affirming with something or you denying against something? [00:04:55] No Quarters November Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming. This is a little cheeky. I'm not gonna throw too much, much, uh, too much explanation. Uh, along with it. I'm affirming something. I'm calling no quarters, November. So, you know, normally I'm very careful to use quarters. I'm very careful to make sure that I'm, I'm saving them and using them appropriately. And for the month of November, I'm just not gonna use any quarters. So there'll be no 25 cent pieces in my banking inventory for the month. Oh. So I'm, I'm making a little bit of fun. Of course. Obviously no, quarter November is a tradition that Doug Wilson does, where he just is even more of a jerk than he usually is. Um, and he, he paints it in language that, like, normally I'm very careful and I qualify everything and I have all sorts of nuance. But in November, I'm just gonna be a bull in a China shop, um, as though he's not already just a bull in a China shop 95% of the time. So I'm affirming no corridors. November maybe. No corners November. Everything should be rounded. Jesse Schwamb: That's good too. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. No, no. Quatro November. Like we don't do anything in Spanish. No fours in Spanish. I don't know. Okay. I'm just making fun of that. I'm just making fun of the whole thing. It's such a silly, dumb enterprise. There's nothing I can do except to make fun of it. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's fair. That's basically the response it deserves. This time, we, we brought it up for several years going, it's such a strange thing. [00:06:13] Critique of Doug Wilson's Approach Jesse Schwamb: It's hard not to see this thing as complete liberty to be sinful and then to acknowledge that. Yeah. As if somehow that gives you, reinforces that liberty that you're taking it, it's so strange. It's as if like, this is what is necessary and probably we'll get to this actually, but this is what is necessary for like the gospel or the kingdom of God to go forward is that kind of attitude at times. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I will say this, I do always look forward every year to seeing what he sets on fire. 'cause the, the videos are pretty great. I'm not gonna lie. Like the video quality is, is certainly compelling. Um, and you could say it's lit is another little punny way to get at it. Uh, I, I haven't seen it this year. I mean, that's, we're recording this on November 1st, so I'm sure that it's out. Uh, I just haven't seen it yet. But yeah, I mean, it's kind of, kind of ridiculous, uh, that anyone believes that Doug Wilson is restraining himself or engaging in lots of fine distinctions and nuance. You know, like the rest of the year and November is the time that he really like holds back, uh, or really doesn't hold back. That's, that's just a silly, it's just a silly gimmick. It's a silly, like, I dunno, it's a gimmick and it's dumb and so I'm gonna make fun of it 'cause that's what it deserves. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, I think that's right. You know, I was thinking recently because as you said, the counter just rolled over. And generally this time of year I end up always watching that documentary that Ligonier put together on Martin Luther, which is quite good. And I think it does, has a fair treatment of him, including the fact that he was so bombastic and that he was very caustic with his language. And I think they treat that fairly by saying, oh, that some of the same things that we admire in somebody can be some of the very same things which pull them into sinful behavior. And there's no excuse for that. And, and, and if that's true for him, then it's true for all of us, of course. And it's definitely true for Luther. So I think this idea, we need to be guarding our tongues all the time and to just make up some excuse to say, I'm not gonna do that. And in some way implying that there's some kind of hidden. Piety in that is what I think is just so disturbing. And I think most of us see through that for what exactly it is. It's clickbaits. It's this idea of trying to draw attention by being bombastic and literally setting things on fire. Like the video where he sets the boat on fire is crazy because all I can think of is like, so if you judge me, one more thing on this, Tony, 'cause I, I, when you said that, I thought about this video, the boat video implicitly, and I've thought about this a lot since then. There's a clip of him, he sets the boat on fire and it's kind of like him sitting on the boat that is engulfed in flames looking out into the sea, so, so calmly as if it's like an embodiment of that mean this is fine, everything is fine, this is fine. Right? Yeah. And all I can think of is that was great for probably like the two seconds that somebody filmed that, but guess what happened immediately after that? Somebody rescued you by putting out the fire on the boat. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: It's just like insanity to presume that, encapsulating that single moment and somehow conveying that he is a great champion, pioneer advocate of things of the gospel by essentially coming in and disrupting and being caustic and that him setting thing on fire makes everything better is a mockery, because that's not even exactly how that shoot took place. Yeah. So I, I just really struggle with that, with the perspective he is trying to bring forward. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I mean, I'm dubious whether or not there was actually any fire involved. Well, that's, I think 95% of it is probably camera magic, which is fine. Like, I don't know. That's fine. Like, I don't want Doug Wilson to burn up. That's, that wouldn't be cool either. But, um, yeah, I mean, like the fruit of the spirit is love, joy piece patience, kindness, good as gentleness, setting things on fire and being a jerk in November, apparently. And I, I just don't, I, I've never fully understood the argument. Um, and this is coming from someone who can be sarcastic and can go over the top and go too far. And, and I recognize that about myself. I've just never understood the argument that like, it's okay to be a jerk sometimes. Or, or not even just, okay. It's necessary to be a jerk sometimes. Exactly. Um, there's a difference between boldness and being a jerk. And, you know, I think, um, the people who, who know me well are gonna like fall off their chairs. I say this like, Michael Foster is actually someone who I think. Does the boldness with a little bit of an edge. I think he actually does it really well. And just like all of us, I, you know, he, he probably goes over the line, uh, on occasion. Um, and, and, but I think he does the, I'm just going to be direct and straightforward and bold. And sometimes that might offend you because sometimes the truth is offensive. Um, I think he does that well. I think where we go sideways is when we try to couch everything in sort of this offensive posture, right? Where, where even the things that shouldn't be offensive, uh, somehow need to be made offensive. It, it's just, it's dumb. It's just, um, and I'm, I'm not saying we should be nice just for the sake of being nice. I think sometimes being nice is. When I say nice, I mean like saccharin sweet, like, like overly uh, I don't know, like sappy sweets. Like we don't have to be that. And uh, there are times where it's not even appropriate to be that. Um, but that's different than just, you know, it's almost like the same error in the wrong direction, right? To be, just to be a jerk all the time. Sometimes our words and our behavior and our actions have to have a hard edge. And sometimes that's going to offend people because sometimes the truth, especially the gospel truth is offensive. Um, but when what you're known for is being a jerk and being rude and just being offensive for the sake of being offensive. Um, right. And, and I'll even say this, and this will be the last thing I say. 'cause I didn't, I, I really intend this just to be like a, a jokey joke. No quarters, November. I'm not gonna spend any quarters. Um, I don't know why I was foolish enough to think we weren't gonna get into it, but, um. When your reputation is that you are a jerk just to be a jerk. Even if that isn't true, it tells you that something is wrong with the way you're doing things. Right. Because I think there are times where, and I'll say this to be charitable, there are times where Doug Wilson says something with a little bit of an edge, and people make way too big of a deal out of it. Like they, they go over the top and try to condemn it, and they, they make everything like the worst possible offense. And sometimes, sometimes it's, it's just not. Um, and there are even times where Doug says things that are winsome and they're helpful and, um, but, but when your reputation is that you are a jerk just to be a jerk, or that you are inflammatory just to get a reaction, um, there's something wrong with your approach. And then to top it off, when you claim that for November, like you explicitly claim that identity as though that's not already kind of your shtick the rest of the year. Um, and just, it's just. Frustrating and dumb and you know, this is the guy that like, is like planting a church in DC and is like going on cnn. It's just really frustrating to see that sort of the worst that the reformed world has to offer in terms of the way we interact with people sometimes is getting the most attention. So, right. Anyway, don't, don't be a pirate. N November is still my way. I celebrate and, uh, yeah, that's, that's that. Jesse Schwamb: That's well said. Again, all things we're thinking about because we all have tendency to be that person from time to time. So I think it's important for us to be reminded that the gospel doesn't belong to us. So that means like that sharp edge, that conviction belongs to Christ, not to our personalities. So if it's tilted toward our personalities, even toward our communication style, then it means that we are acting in sin. And so it's hard for us to see that sometimes. So it does take somebody to say, whoa. Back it down a little bit there and you may need to process. Well, I'm trying to communicate and convey this particular truth. Well, again, the objective that we had before us is always...
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Small Yet Mighty: The Quiet Power of Christ's Kingdom in Matthew 13
10/31/2025
Small Yet Mighty: The Quiet Power of Christ's Kingdom in Matthew 13
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal explores Jesus' parable of the leaven from Matthew 13:33, revealing profound insights about the nature of God's kingdom on earth. This short but powerful parable illustrates how the kingdom of heaven operates not through outward glory or conquest, but as a hidden, transformative influence throughout the world. Tony examines how this parable connects thematically with other parables in Matthew 13, showing that believers are called to be like leaven - seemingly small and hidden, yet profoundly impacting the entire "loaf" of society. This teaching offers a refreshing perspective on how Christians can understand their role in the world and how God's redemptive purposes work through His people. Key Takeaways The kingdom of heaven operates not through outward glory but as a hidden, transformative influence in the world Just as leaven permeates an entire batch of dough, Christians are called to influence the whole world around them The parable of leaven shares thematic connections with the parables of the sower and the wheat and tares in Matthew 13 God preserves the world (the "whole loaf") because of His redemptive purposes for those within it The seemingly small presence of believers in the world has a disproportionate impact, similar to how a small amount of leaven affects a large amount of flour Common grace benefits both believers and unbelievers as part of God's redemptive plan The church may not always appear dominant in society, but its influence continues to work invisibly and powerfully Understanding the Parable of Leaven The parable in Matthew 13:33 is deceptively simple: "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour till it was all leavened." Tony notes that just as leaven is often the same color as flour but with a different texture, and just as a small amount can affect an entire batch, the kingdom of heaven may seem small and unassuming in the world, yet its influence permeates everything around it. This parable teaches us that God's kingdom doesn't operate through visible conquest or outward glory. Rather, it works quietly from within, transforming the whole of society as believers live out their faith in various contexts - whether at work, with family, or in other relationships. The impact of the kingdom, like leaven, is not always immediately visible but ultimately transforms everything it touches. The Kingdom's Hidden Presence This parable helps us understand that while the church may not always be the dominant visible institution in the world, its influence continues to work powerfully. Tony explains how this connects with the parable of the wheat and tares, where both grow together until the harvest. Similarly, the kingdom of heaven is present within the world, often hidden from plain sight but still exerting tremendous influence. This perspective counters triumphalistic views that expect Christianity to always visibly dominate culture, while also rejecting defeatist attitudes that minimize the church's impact. Instead, it offers a balanced understanding that even when believers are in the minority, they serve as God's means of leavening the whole of society with kingdom values and influence. Memorable Quotes "We should look at this parable and think about how the kingdom of heaven on this earth is not going to be about outward glory. It's not gonna be about outward conquests, accoutrements or accolades." "As we go into our workday, as we interact with our family, whether that's our immediate family, our wives or children, our parents, or it's our extended family, some of whom may not even know Christ, as we interact with our fellow Christians in the church or online, as we interact with unbelievers online, we are to be like leaven that is hidden in the flower and our presence in the flower, our presence in the world actually leavens the whole world." "If it were not for God's intent and desire to save a remnant from fallen humanity, if it was not for the covenant of redemption in which the father, son and the spirit pacted together to redeem a people for their very own, God would've had no reason not to just destroy the whole thing and start over. But because he has seen fit to redeem out of the fallen whole, a portion, he is leavening the whole with that portion." Full Transcript we should look at this parable and think about how the kingdom of heaven on this earth is not going to be about outward glory. It's not gonna be about outward conquests accoutrements or accolades. [00:00:21] Introduction and Experiment Setup Welcome back to episode 467 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Tony and this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey, brothers and sisters, if you are joining us for this second part of, uh, episode 467, any of you have not listened to Jesse's contribution, then you are like me. I also have not listened to Jesse's contribution yet, but, uh, you should go back and listen because, uh, we're doing a fun little experiment this week, Jesse and I. Our schedules didn't quite line up, so we thought we would do something interesting. [00:01:03] Exploring the Parables of Christ Uh, we've been working through the parables of Christ, which has been an absolute joy, and we come to these two sort of little micro parables that, um, commentators and editors often clump together. And Justin and I thought it would be a fun experiment for us each two separately talk about, uh, one of the parables. Uh, and then next week, uh, we're gonna come back together and we will probably talk through all of it after we've had some chances to, uh, process and marinate in it a little bit. We thought it'd be fun to see kind of how the two episodes gel together or don't gel together, uh, when uh, we have not talked about it and did not record together. So I'm gonna go ahead and kick off. I don't know if Jesse did affirmations or denials. I don't know what Jesse did. I, all I know is he recorded an episode and I'm sure that it's amazing. Uh, but I'm just gonna go ahead and kick off right into the, uh, the. Uh, reading here. So we're looking at Matthew chapter 13. Uh, we've spent our entire time in this series so far in Matthew chapter 13, and I'm gonna pick it up at verse 33. It reads here, he told them another parable. The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, that a woman took and hid in three measures of flower till it was all leavened. Now this is a short parable. Uh, it's, it's pretty straightforward. And this episode will be a little bit shorter. I don't know how long Jesse went. I mean, I, I guess I kind of have an idea 'cause I edited the, uh, episode, but I dunno how long you went. So I'm gonna keep this short and sweet and we're gonna talk more about all of this next week. So I just wanna share a few observations with you first. I think it's important for us to sort of recognize that. Matthew as the inspired, uh, writer of this, uh, gospel and in some ways, uh, as an inspired compiler and editor of Christ's public Ministry. Right. He's writing the gospel, but he's also a witness to the events. He is probably, um, ordering things in particular ways to make a theological point. Christ probably also taught this same message multiple times in multiple venues, so there's nothing shady or a historical going on. Um, but Matthew is. Putting together these, uh, counts and particularly these parables, which probably were all given at the same time. Um, Christ probably deliver them all at the same time as well. And there's some good reasons in the text to think that. But these parables all fall within the context of each other. So when we talked about the parable of, uh, the soils, um, or the parable of the sower, we, we recognize, um, that the kingdom of heaven is not as obvious as we would think, right? The sower sows the seed, um, he sows it promiscuously a across various different kinds of soils, fully knowing that some of it will not be receptive. And then of course, we saw the outcome. And then when we looked at the parable of the weed, weed, uh, wheat and the tears, uh, we see that, you know, the, the good sower recognizes that the wheat and the weed will grow up next to each other, and that at the end of all things, he will separate those things and will, you know, destroy the wicked and will reward the righteous. And an interesting feature of this chapter is that Christ often tells a parable, and then there's either some commentary, or in this case today, there's actually additional parables in sort of inserted, and then Christ gives the, uh, interpretation of the parable. So the, the parable of the mustard seed immediately follows in the parable of the 11, kind of considering those together. Immediately follows the parable of, uh, the explanation, or no, sorry, the parable of, um, the weed and the weeds. And so he gives us this parable right in the middle there. Then he gives us a little explanation and a second, you know, explanation of why he speaks in parables. And then he goes on to interpret and. There's a, a technique that was often used in ancient text, in ancient documents called an iuso, where they would start an account. Uh, they would start sort of a literary segment with, um, a phrase or a concept. Then they would explain, you know, they would give all their explanation and then they would close that same section with a similar theme or a similar, um, kind of, um, concept. We see this in Luke, right? We see at the beginning of Luke. There's a statement that Jesus grew in wisdom and stature. Then we see the, um, the account of Jesus in the temple. And then we see again at the end of that, it says again, he grew in wisdom and stature. And so Luke, there is telling us that we should read that whole section, that whole area as a, a single unit. And the theme of that unit is Jesus growing in, um, wisdom and stature. A similar thing is happening here. So we have the, the parable of the sower. We have some commentary, then we have the interpretation of the parable of sower. Then we have the parable of the wheat and the tears, and then we have this in the middle, the parable of the weed of the, um, mustard seed and the lemon. And then we have the explanation or the interpretation of the parable of the wheat and the tears. So we should see this parable as part of that literary unit. That's, that's what Matthew is doing here. So we have to interpret it in light of that. [00:06:17] The Kingdom of Heaven and Its Implications And so what do we see in the first, uh, parable that we talked about? Well, we see that the kingdom of heaven is, uh, is sort of hidden within the world. We see that God sows or the, the good sower sows his seed. The master of the household sows his good seed into the world. The field is the world and it starts to grow, and then the enemy comes and he sows his seed into the world, and that starts to grow. And until the end of things, um, the good weeds, the good wheat is sort of hidden among the weeds just as the weed is hidden among the good wheat, the, the parable of the mustard seed, um, Jesse, I'm sure explain. We'll find out. Um, explain that the, the mustard seed is small. And so when it's planted into the garden, it becomes kind of hidden and it's an unexpected, um, influence on the, the rest of the garden. Not only does it grow, but it becomes, uh, it becomes a central feature of the garden. Uh, it gives shade to things. It, you know, birds come and live in it. Um. It becomes a central feature in an unexpected way. And the Parable of 11 is, in my opinion, is really just a restatement in some ways of the parable of, uh, the wheat and the tears. It says the kingdom of heaven is like 11 that the woman took and hid. In three measures of flour till it was all lemon. So Jesse could tell you more about baking bread than I could. Uh, he, he probably would've been better to give you this parable and, and if we did any sort of planning at all, we would've thought about that, but. Lemon is often, um, the same color as flour. Um, it's a different texture as flour, but it takes just a very small amount of it in a large portion of flour or bread dough or whatever you're putting into to then permeate and affect the whole thing. So you might have, you might have a pound of flour. Um, or in this case, three measures of flour, which I, I don't know off the top of my head how much that is. Um, my logos Bible software is, is not helping me all that much here. But you may have a, a large quantity of flour, say a pound of flour, you might put just a few, um, a few grams into that flour, and once you've mixed it all up. Even though that lemon, uh, that lemon is, is at a much lower ratio than the flour, it still affects the entire, the entire outcome and the entire loaf of that, uh, bread that you're making. So, in one sense, what Christ is saying is that the kingdom of heaven, uh, it's it's small. It's, it's unassuming. It is hidden in this broader bunch, just like the wheat is in the good field. Um, it's hidden in the good field in that when you first, you first sow it, you don't see it. And as it starts to grow alongside the weeds, it's hidden among the weeds just as the weeds are hidden among the weeds because you can't tell the difference. In this case, the lemon is, is hidden among the measures of flower, and that's what the kingdom of heaven is like. And so we should look at this parable and think about how the kingdom of heaven on this earth is not going to be about outward glory. It's not gonna be about outward conquests or outward, um, accoutrements or accolades. Um, it certainly should be visible, right? Christ also says that, uh, the kingdom of heaven is like a city on a hill, and we'll get to that when we get to that, or we'll talk about that at some point. But it's not as though this parable is saying The kingdom of heaven should be invisible. But it's not, um, it's not going to be the dominant outward force in the world, just as the wheat in the first parable we talk, or in the second parable we talked about is not gonna be outwardly, uh, visible and apparent. Um, but it's still present in the world and it's still. Part of the reason that the master retains the field instead of just burning it over. If, um, if we saw that an entire loaf was ruined, we'd throw it away. But because the leaven is present in the loaf or it's present in the three measures, it, it permeates that. And the second thing that I think that we should think about, uh, and this will be where I close here, is the kingdom of heaven is, um, is not an, an inert force in the world. Even though it's not going to be outwardly dominant, dominant, it's not going to be the primary, uh, visible institution in the world. Um, it, it certainly has been at points if, if you equate the. The visible church with the Kingdom of Heaven, which our tradition certainly does to a certain extent, but regardless of how present or hidden it, it visually appears and how apparent it is, it still is leavening the whole loaf. So when we read passages like God so loved the world, we don't have to do exegetical gymnastics to try to say, well, God so loved part of the world, or the world only means the elect. We can say without, you know, crossing our fingers or talking outta both sides of our mouth, that God loved the world, the whole world, but part of the reason he loved the whole world is because. One, he created it. But his love for the world in that passage and his sending of the sun is a particular love for the whole world. On the account of all of those who would believe so the, the, the parable here, just like the parable of the weeds. Or maybe as an extension of the parable of the wheat and the tears is teaching us that Christians, particularly the sons of the Kingdom, to use the language from the, the parable of the wheat, the sons of the Kingdom of God are hidden among the world. And just as we are commanded to be salt and light earlier in the gospel, here we are to leaven the whole world. So as we go into our workday, honestly, I'm sitting in my office at work recording this episode right now 'cause it's the most quiet place I can get. Um. As we go into our workday, as we interact with our family, whether that's our immediate family, our wives or children, our parents, or it's our extended family, some of whom may not even know Christ as we interact with our, our fellow Christians in the church or on online. As we interact with unbelievers online, we are to be like leaven that is hidden in the flower and our presence in the flower. Our presence in the world actually leavens the whole world if it were not for God's intent and desire to save a remnant from fallen humanity. It was not for the covenant of redemption in which the father, son and the spirit, uh, pacted together to redeem a people for their very own. If it were not for that, God would've had no reason, would have no reason not to just destroy the whole thing and start over. But because he has seen fit to redeem. Out of the fallen hole, a portion he is leavening the hole with that portion. So I'm obviously not arguing for some kind of universal salvation, but the the common grace that the fact that the rain falls on the just and the unjust or the fact that we all have air to breathe and there's food to eat and that. Uh, evil is restrained, uh, to a certain extent and, and that, um, the good things in life are preserved and that even, even the unbelievers can experience good and pleasurable things like marriage and good food and drink and, and other, um, common grace pleasures that God has provided. All of that is on account of, and because of his desire to redeem the whole, to have a kingdom of God on Earth. So I'm gonna leave you there and it'll be an interesting, fun experiment once these, uh, two dueling episodes come out to, to compare notes and to see how close Jesse and I. Are in interpreting these and where we overlap and where we may even disagree. And we will come back next week and see, uh, where we go when we start to discuss the two together. So thank you for bearing with us with this sort of interesting, unorthodox experiment. I hope that you've enjoyed this, and until next time, honor everyone. Love that brotherhood.
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The Theology of the Ordinary: How Jesus Reveals God's Kingdom Through Mustard Seeds
10/31/2025
The Theology of the Ordinary: How Jesus Reveals God's Kingdom Through Mustard Seeds
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb explores Jesus' parable of the mustard seed from Matthew 13. The seemingly insignificant mustard seed grows into a mighty tree, providing a profound metaphor for God's kingdom—beginning in humble, ordinary ways yet expanding to glorious fulfillment. Jesse unpacks how this parable challenges our expectations of power and glory, revealing that God intentionally works through what appears small and insignificant to manifest His mighty power. This episode offers a meditation on God's kingdom, which operates contrary to human expectations, growing unstoppably between Christ's first and second comings despite opposition, and ultimately providing shelter for all nations. Key Takeaways The kingdom of God begins with something small and seemingly insignificant (a mustard seed) yet grows to become greater than all garden plants Jesus deliberately uses ordinary, humble elements to describe God's kingdom, contrasting with human expectations of power and glory The theology of the cross consistently looks to normal, ordinary means rather than what people perceive as great and powerful There is significant growth of God's kingdom between Christ's first advent and His eventual return God's kingdom cannot be stopped by opposition; attempts to destroy it actually facilitate its growth Biblical meditation on Jesus' parables is essential for deeper understanding and application The parable connects to Old Testament imagery (particularly in Daniel and Ezekiel) where trees represent kingdoms The Theology of Ordinary Means The parable of the mustard seed demonstrates what Jesse refers to as "the theology of the cross" versus "the theology of glory." God consistently chooses to work through what appears weak, small, and insignificant rather than through impressive displays of worldly power. As Jesse explains, "The theology of Cross is always looking to these normal, ordinary insignificant things. It's God's stacking the deck against himself to show his great power that he works not... in the circumstance of what people perceive to be great and powerful, but the exact opposite." This approach reveals God's sovereignty—He needs no human advantage, political power, or military might to accomplish His purposes. The kingdom that began with Jesus' seemingly humble first advent will culminate in His glorious return, showing that God's power is made perfect in weakness. The Unstoppable Growth of God's Kingdom One of the most encouraging aspects of this parable is how it portrays the inevitability of the kingdom's growth. Just as a mustard seed inevitably grows into a tree according to its nature, God's kingdom advances despite opposition. Jesse notes how throughout history, attempts to destroy Christianity have always failed: "History is replete with those... who have tried in their own way to silence God, to destroy the scriptures or to somehow eradicate Christianity. And of course, history will be filled up with all of their failures." Even the martyrdom of Stephen in the early church, which seemed like a defeat, actually caused the gospel to spread beyond Jerusalem as believers were scattered. This illustrates Jesus' promise that "the gates of hell will not prevail against his church" (Matthew 16:18). The kingdom continues to grow by God's power until its final consummation when Christ returns. Memorable Quotes "The humble inauguration was not a mistake. This is planned by God and it is for his great purpose. It shows His great power, his love for his people, and the ordinary way in which he brings about all of these things." - Jesse Schwamb "This unassuming seed, which God plants, continues to grow by his power, his volition, his sustenance, until it takes over all things." - Jesse Schwamb "The one who took on flesh and was born in a humble state will return in splendor and judgment to consummate this kingdom." - Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript the theology of Cross is always looking to these. Normal, ordinary insignificant things. It's, God's stacking the deck against himself to show his great power that he works not with great po, not in the circumstance of what people perceive us to be. Great and powerful, but the exact opposite. Welcome to episode 467 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse, and this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey, brothers and sisters. Well, we're back at it again. [00:00:48] Exploring the Kingdom of God Through Parables On this episode, we're talking about seeds and leave. In what other ways would Jesus describe the kingdom of God? And we're gonna get to all of that, but in a slightly different format. Something special for everybody on this episode. It may have noticed that. Right at the top. Tony is missing, but fear not. He's still here. We're doing something different on this episode and that is we're gonna speak about the kingdom of God as Jesus describes it in parable form with the mustard seed and the leave. And so what we decided to do is I'm gonna give a quick little primer, my thoughts, my observations. On the mustard soup parable, and then Tony will be right behind me to talk about the leaven. And then in the next episode, we're coming together and we're gonna see how all of our different explanations kind of come, came together and coalesced around single themes. So this is a fun little game where you're gonna hear from. You're gonna hear from Tony, and we're gonna see how all of this comes together in the end, because neither of us is having the conversation in real time, but I'm sure that we're gonna have a lot of the similar things to say and it'll be a fun little game of seeing how all of this comes together. So if you wanna play along. And you definitely should come hang out with us in Matthew chapter 13. [00:02:04] The Mustard Seed Parable So we've gone through a couple parables already and the beauty of looking at these parables, of course, one of the many beauties, I guess I should say, is that we're getting some direct teaching from Jesus, which is always great, and we're getting it directly about the Kingdom of God. The God perspective on salvation. Clear, concise, in parable form. And so we found ourselves looking at fields, looking at planting, looking at weeds, looking at tears, looking at wheats. And now after all of that, we're coming back. To in some ways, at least for me, a familiar form. And that is we're back to seeds again. And this time it's a particular type of seed. It's the mustard seed, and Tony's gonna handle something new, a total change in direction, a totally different comparison. He's gonna get into lemon and bread making and all that kinda good stuff. But in either case, what we're finding is Jesus is specifically coming to us once again. With these finely tuned stories to help explain to us the kingdom of God. And of course, like this is clear because in all of Jesus' teaching, the kingdom of God holds this like high and lifted up this prominent position. It gets hegemony in all the other topics. And as he goes about his earthly ministry, wherever gospel you look, you're gonna find that he's proclaiming his coming to earth and that this coming meant that the kingdom of God was at hand. Now, I can only imagine, and you ought to as well, that if you were in that time, if you were listening to Jesus. What an incredible thing that would be that you're trying to understand and really discern what the he means about this kingdom of God. And perhaps like you, I would have my own perceptions of what that was, and if he's inaugurating it, I'm waiting for that thing to happen. And a kingdom is a powerful representation of ownership. Power in hierarchy in a place that's clearly manifested. And so as Jesus is in the midst of all these hears, these disciples that are gathering around the throngs of people that are trying to understand what he has to say. If he's coming and saying, I am here to inaugurate the kingdom of God, then my first question would be. Where is it? Tell us what it's gonna look like. Show me what you mean when you say that the kingdom of God is here, that you're ushering it in. And so how strange and unusual then for Jesus to say something like the kingdom of God is like a mustard seed, or the kingdom of God is like lemon in bread. So it seems altogether fitting that Jesus would want to and would have to explain what exactly he means. It's a little bit though mysterious that he uses these elements. To bring about that kind of explanation. I find that endlessly fascinating. [00:04:32] Meditation on Jesus' Teachings Speaking of which, I think one of the reasons why Tony and I are discovering that we're loving these parables so much is that it forces us to do something that sometimes is Modern Christians we're honestly just not that good at it, not skilled and often not practiced because our lives are filled with many things. And we prefer not to do this, and that is to actually meditate on what he's saying, to actually like turn it over in our minds to think about it. Like personally, practically, seriously, and earnestly to understand how the truth of God's words should look in life. And it just dawned on me this week that really the parable forces us into that rubric, whether we want to or not, because the whole purpose is to take what he's saying and to dwell on it to such degree that we receive something of the promises that are therein. By chewing on them. And it's just too easy to read the scriptures, of course, and to take with you as you pass by those words, something of a little bit of the knowledge that's contained within something about the phraseology or about the facts of it. But really what God's after here is this idea that we would spend time meditating on the words of Jesus, so that we might truly understand what he means by the kingdom of God. And then we might take that kingdom into our own realm, as it were, into our own sphere of influence to manifest it. And to worship him through it and to be obedient in it. Be not because of works on the righteousness, of course, but because we already have been saved by a great savior for this kingdom. And now we know something about what it's actually like by way of these beautiful metaphors. And of course, like the metaphors, even if they're straightforward. As we're about to find in this one, still force us into them to really say, well, what? What does it mean? We're gonna talk about seeds and mustard plants, and where else we find trees in the scriptures. Without meditation, we lose so much of this without meditation. Truths are maybe devoured, but they're never digested. I like what the great Puritan Watson wrote. He said, it's better to meditate on one sermon than to hear. Five sermons. Many complain that they do not profit from sermons. This may be the chief reason, because they do not chew the cud. They do not meditate on what they have heard. And I think one of the great goals that Tony have in this series is that even as we're thinking about this before we have conversation with each other and present it all to you, that we really wanna spend time truly meditating on it, thinking practically, deeply for a long period of time. On what is being said here, what Jesus means by it, that it is for us, that it is a gift that he gives to us. And so I really totally resonate with what Watson is saying here, that when a Christian enters into meditation through the scriptures, that they receive healing, they receive power from God, that receive insights and wisdom, that receive his comforts, that receive his direction for life, and that all of that is, or most of that. Rather is lost if we move too quickly by it. We tend to gather a lot of knowledge, but maybe not a lot of the wisdom that's contained in there. So even if this sounds simple, this little parable that's before us, it's just a couple of verses. Loved ones that there is so much in it for us to understand and to chew on. I don't think we can expect to get all the understanding in one go and that's okay. We keep coming back to it. Certainly. I'm not gonna cover it all here. This is definitely not going to be, though. You might expect it, the definitive episode. On the parable of the mustard seed in the lemon. It can't be really, and that's because there's just so much for us to understand here and to receive from God. So that is the longest intro ever. So let me cut it there and let's just go right to the scripture, which of course is the best part of this podcast. Always. So this is Matthew chapter 13, beginning in verse 31, just a couple of verses. Jesus put another parable before them saying The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed than a man took and sowed in his field. It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown, it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree. So that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches. Lovely. Right. It's wild because it's such quick language there. It's so brief and already I wanted to go further, but I would be into Tony's verses, which he's gonna hit with us in just a second for. But it's really compact statement of just a couple of things. One, can we just agree that I love the way that this particular little passage begins? It just starts by saying, Jesus put another parable before them. What beautiful language that he's really throwing before his disciples placing for them to evaluate again, to meditate on these beautiful words of his that express what the kingdom of heaven is like. It's of course, well within God's purview. To not have given us any kind of direct revelation here, or direct expression or even metaphorical or comparative expression of his kingdom. How kind that he does this. And then I think there is something for us to study in this, again, to chew the cut, as Watson would say, on what it means for us to think about heaven as this grain of mustard seed and that a man took it. And he sewed it in his field. It's very small, yet it grew larger than all of the other garden plants that would probably be in that field. It became a tree, and then as a result of that, the birds of the air come and make its nest in its branches. So you can see that there's all this interesting, logical pro progression throughout this passage. And we're talking about really just two verses, really, just that many sentences. It's really exceptional thing, you know. [00:09:52] The Growth of God's Kingdom I find it interesting that this illustration progresses this idea of the kingdom of God between its inauguration and consummation. There's something built in there, and like I said, I think it's realistic to assume that so many who are hearing these words we're really, truly trying to understand. Where was this kingdom, Jesus, that you're bringing in as the Son of David, show us this kingdom and its power and my own expectation. I still don't mean to put this on. Those who would've been there would've been that this kingdom would've come in power. I was waiting for it to be manifested with this sense that it would be very clear that Jesus was in. That all things, all realities both here and now in spiritual principalities will be clearly under his foot. We were looking for, we want to see the serpent crusher, the head crusher the better. David, the one that comes inlays Goliath Finally. Where is that pump and where is that power? And interestingly, Jesus says, no, actually, it's more like a mustard seed. And of course, I mean, you don't need to know much about seeds, but if you haven't looked up a mustard seed at this point, you definitely should because it's very tiny. That's obviously implied from the text, but it is very tiny, like crazy tiny, like almost so tiny that when I look at a mustard seed, whether you're like, you're looking at your. From your like spice rack or you go and Google one, it almost seems inconceivable that any size plant could come forth from that very, very tiny seed. It's so mundane and insignificant that the idea that Jesus would say, this is what this glorious kingdom of God is like, is almost mind boggling. Like even now it's mind boggling. And if it's not, it's because you have not looked at a mustard seed. Go check that bad boy out. It's so small. And so of course like Mustard would've been a common agricultural product that grew quite prolifically in that particular area. You know, the variety of mustard seed growth in PA in Palestine is probably similar, I imagine to like maybe most of like the northern hemisphere. There's various. Kind of varieties, of course of mustard seed. What I've learned since trying to chew on this text, and they grow in very all kinds of varieties, but this idea that this small seed can become something that you put in your garden, that grows to such a great extent that it dwarfs all of the other things. And of course it starts. In the most, I don't wanna say humble, that's like, that's almost too much. The most insignificant way is incredible. So the fact that, again, we have, I think in this something that Tony and I have come back to quite often, and that is the difference between the theology of glory and the theology of the cross. That the theology of Cross is always looking to these. Normal, ordinary means these insignificant things. It's, as we've said before, God's stacking the deck constantly against himself to show his great power that he works not with great po, not in the circumstance of what people perceive us to be. Great and powerful, but the exact opposite. And I think not just as the Bible communicates, not just to display his mighty power, but also to shore forth his great glory that he needs no other thing. And because he needs no other thing, he doesn't need things to go right for him. He doesn't need the right political leaders to be involved. He does not need armies. He does not need kingdoms. He inaugurates his own. And his own is so great and so powerful that it became, it can begin in the most insignificant way because the power is not itself in the planting of that thing, but in the thing that makes it grow. And so here we have this clean and clear delineation when it comes to trees that God, again, is doing the planting and this tree is gonna grow to such a great extent that dwarfs all the others besides it. And that not just that, it becomes a resting place. It becomes a living place, a place that provides shelter. And so. It's, that is a common theme that we find, like throughout all of the scriptures. In fact, I, I often think like God has a thing for, for a couple of different items. One is tense. God loves tense, loves sojourning jam. Then the third would be trees. I mean, look throughout the scripture and see where God is either using trees directly or using, this becomes like a grand metaphor explanation for so many of other great spiritual and theological principles. That's whether we go back all the way to the beginning in the guided and we see the tree of good evil, tree of knowledge of good and evil. Tree of Life rather. In addition to that, then we have all these other references, especially in the Old Testament, but I mean, whether it's Abraham and he's souring and he's, we're getting way points by way of trees, for instance, or whether we are in the New Testament and we're talking about fig trees. There are all these references to trees. They're embedded and impounded in the lifeblood of God's work and the story that he's telling, the grand narrative of salvation of his people. [00:14:35] Historical and Biblical Context And nowhere is this, I'd say more true than in places in the Old Testament, especially when we're speaking about like the book of Daniel Daniel, chapter four. So for instance, if you go back there, you're gonna find that this description here in some ways. Has it. I think parallel is probably not strong enough a word. There's like this direct connection between what God talks about and through...
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Cultivating True Assurance: What Jesus Teaches Us Through the Parable of the Tares
10/24/2025
Cultivating True Assurance: What Jesus Teaches Us Through the Parable of the Tares
In this profound episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb delve deeply into the Parable of the Tares (Matthew 13:24-30), exploring its implications for Christian assurance. Building on their previous discussion, they examine how this parable speaks to the mixed nature of the visible church, the sovereignty of Christ over His kingdom, and most significantly, the doctrine of assurance. Through careful theological reflection, the hosts unpack how true believers can find solid ground for assurance not in their own works or fruit-checking, but in the promises of Christ and the testimony of the Holy Spirit. This episode offers both encouragement for those struggling with doubts and a sobering challenge to those resting in false assurance. Key Takeaways The Parable of the Tares teaches that the visible church will be mixed until the final judgment, containing both true believers (wheat) and false professors (tares) who may appear outwardly similar. True assurance is not based primarily on good works but on the promises of Christ, the inward testimony of the Holy Spirit, and the evidences of grace in our lives. False assurance is a real danger, as many who think they belong to Christ will discover at the final judgment that they never truly knew Him. The Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18) provides a helpful framework for understanding biblical assurance as the proper possession of every Christian. Christ's role as the divine Master of the house (the world) and Lord of the angels is subtly yet powerfully affirmed in this parable, grounding our assurance in His sovereignty. Good works are the fruit of assurance, not its cause—when we are secure in our salvation, we are freed to serve Christ joyfully rather than anxiously trying to earn assurance. The final judgment will bring perfect clarity, revealing what was hidden and separating the wheat from the tares with divine precision that humans cannot achieve now. The Doctrine of Assurance: Reformed Understanding The Reformed tradition has always emphasized that believers can and should have assurance of their salvation—a conviction recovered during the Reformation in contrast to Rome's teaching. As Tony noted when reading from the Westminster Confession of Faith (Chapter 18), this assurance is "not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope, but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation." This assurance rests on three pillars: the promises of God in Scripture, the inward evidence of grace, and the testimony of the Holy Spirit witnessing with our spirit. What makes this understanding particularly comforting is that it shifts the foundation of assurance away from our performance to God's faithfulness. While self-examination has its place, the Reformed understanding recognizes that looking too intensely at our own hearts and works can lead either to despair or to false confidence. Instead, we're directed to look primarily to Christ and His finished work, finding in Him the anchor for our souls. The Problem of False Assurance One of the most sobering aspects of the Parable of the Tares is its implicit warning about false assurance. Just as the tares resemble wheat until maturity reveals their true nature, many professing Christians may outwardly appear to belong to Christ while inwardly remaining unregenerate. As Jesse observed, "The tares typically live under false assurance. They may attend church, confess belief, appear righteous, yet their hearts are unregenerate. Their faith is maybe historical, it's not saving, it could be intellectual, but it's not spiritual." This echoes Jesus' warning in Matthew 7 that many will say to Him, "Lord, Lord," but will hear the devastating response, "I never knew you." The parable teaches us that this self-deception is not always conscious hypocrisy but often the result of spiritual blindness. As Jesse noted, referencing Romans 1, Ephesians 4, and 1 Corinthians 2, the unregenerate are "not merely ignorant, they're blinded... to the spiritual truth by nature and by Satan." This understanding should prompt humble self-examination while simultaneously driving us to depend not on our own discernment but on Christ's perfect knowledge and saving work. Memorable Quotes "Assurance is the believer's arc where he sits Noah alike quiets and still in the midst of all distractions and destructions, commotions and confusions." - Thomas Brooks, quoted by Jesse Schwamb "When we are confessing, repenting, seeking like our status in Christ because of Christ, then we have confidence that we are in fact part of the children of God. When everything is stripped away from us and all we're crying out is only and completely and solely and unequivocally Jesus Christ, then I think we have great reason to understand that we should be confident in our assurance." - Jesse Schwamb "The sacrifice and the service that a husband performs for his wife, whom he loves and trusts and is committed to and knows that she's faithful and committed to him, that is not causing that faithfulness. It's not causing that trust and that love. It is the outcome and the outflow of it." - Tony Arsenal on how good works flow from assurance rather than cause it Resources Mentioned Scripture: Matthew 13:24-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Romans 1, Ephesians 4, 1 Corinthians 2, 2 Timothy 3:5 Westminster Confession of Faith: Chapter 18 "Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation" Thomas Brooks: "Precious Remedies Against Satan's Devices" YouTube Channel: My Wild Backyard Khan Academy: Educational resource recommended during "Affirmations and Denials" segment Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 466 of the Reform the Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. We're going back to the farm again. Can't stop. Won't stop. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. [00:01:02] Discussion on the Parable of the Tears Tony Arsenal: The last week's discussion was interesting and I think, um, it's gonna be nice to sort of round it out and talk about some things you might not think about, uh, when you first read this parable. So I'm, I'm pretty excited. Jesse Schwamb: Oh, what a tease that is. So if you're wondering what Tony's talking about, we're hanging out. In Matthew 13, we are just really enjoying these teachings of Jesus. And they are shocking and they're challenging, and they're encouraging, and they're awesome, of course. And so we're gonna be finishing out the Parable of the Tears and you need to go back and listen to the previous conversation. This, this is all set up because we have some unfinished business. We didn't talk about the eschatological implications. We have this really big this, this matza ball hanging over us. So to speak, which was the, do the TAs in this parable even know that they are tarry, that they are the TAs? And so in this parable, the disciples learn that the kingdom itself, God's kingdom, the kingdom that Jesus is enumerating and explaining and bringing into being, they are learning that it's gonna be mixed in character. So that's correcting this expectation that the kingdom would be perfectly pure and would have, would evolve righteous rule over all of the unrighteous world. And so it's a little bit shocking that Jesus says, listen, they're gonna be. Tears within the wheats that is in the world, the seed that God himself, the sun has planted and that they're gonna exist side by side for a long time. And so we, they have to wait patiently and give ourselves to building up the wheats as the sons of the kingdom and be careful in their judgment, not to harm those who are believers. We covered a lot of that last week, but left so much unsaid we couldn't even fit it in. This is gonna be jam packed, so I'm gonna stop giving the tees instead start moving us into affirmations and denials. [00:02:45] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: It's of course that time in our conversation where we either affirm with something really like or we think is undervalued or we deny against something that we don't really like or is a little overvalued. So as I usually say to you, Tony, what have you got for us? [00:03:00] YouTube Channel Recommendation: My Wild Backyard Tony Arsenal: I am affirming a YouTube channel. Um, I, I think the algorithm goes through these cycles where it wants me to learn about bugs and things because I get Okay, like videos about bugs. And so I'm, I'm interested. There's been this, uh, channel that's been coming up on my algorithm lately called My Wild Backyard, and it, it's a guy, he's like an entomologist. He seems like a, a like a legit academic, but what he does is he basically goes through and he talks about different bugs, creepy crawlies, looks at like snakes, all that kinds of stuff. It seems like his wheelhouse is the stuff that can kill you or hurt you pretty bad. Nice. But, um, it's interesting and it's. It's good educational content. It's, you know, it's not sensationalized, it's not, uh, it's not dramatized. Um, it's very real. There's occasionally an instance where he, he's not, sometimes he will intentionally get bit or stung by an, uh, by an animal to show you what it does. So he can experience and explain what he's experiencing. And sometimes he just accidentally gets bit or stung. And so those are some of the most interesting ones. So like, for example, just looking at his, his channel, his most recent, um, his most recent video is called The most venomous Desert Creatures in the US ranked the one previous was. The world's most terrifying arachni isn't a spider. And then previous to that was what happens if a giant centipede bites you? So it's interesting stuff. If you are one of those people that likes bugs and likes creepy crawlies and things, um, this is definitely the channel for you if you're not one of those people. I actually think this probably is the channel for you too. 'cause it kind of demystifies a lot of this stuff. Um. You know, for example, he, he will commonly point out that, um, spiders don't wanna bite you and they just wanna leave you alone. And, and as long as you leave them alone, even, even something like a black widow, which people are terrified of, and I think, right, rightfully so. I mean, they can be scary. Those can be scary bites. He'll, he'll handle those, no problem. And as long as he's not like putting downward pressure on them, uh, they have no interest in biting, they really just want to get away. So even seeing that kind of stuff, I think can help demystify and, and sort of, uh, make it a little bit easier. So my Wild Backyard, he can find it on YouTube. Um, he's safe for kids. He's not, he's not cussing even. I mean, I think occasionally when he gets bit on accident, you might, you know, you might have a beep here or there, but, um, he's not, he's not regularly swearing or things like that. And he does a pretty good job of adding that stuff out. Jesse Schwamb: What a great title for that, isn't it? This, yeah. Confluence of your backyard. That space that seems domesticated is also stealing its own. Right. Wild. And there's a be Yeah. Both those things coming together. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. It, it's interesting stuff and it's really good. I mean, it's really compelling videography. He does a good job of taking good photos. You'll see insects that you usually won't see, or spiders you usually won't see. Um, so yeah, it's cool. Check it out. [00:05:51] Discussion on Spiders and Creepy Crawlies Jesse Schwamb: What are you, uh, yeah, I myself would like to become more comfortable with the arachni variety. If only be, I mean, I don't know. It's, it's a weird creature, so my instinct is to be like, kill them all. And then if I can't find them and I know they're around, then we just burn everything that we own. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: They just can't sink into the ground fast enough. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. There's something about the way they move, like their, their bodies don't move the way you would anticipate them to. Right. And it freaks, it just weirds out human sensibilities, so. Right. Jesse Schwamb: They're also like, I find them to be very surprising. Often. It's not kind of a, a very like, kind of measured welcome into your life. It's like you just go to get in the shower and there's a giant spider. Yeah. Oh yeah. Although I guess that spider, he's, he or she's probably like, whoa, where'd you come from? You know, like, yeah. He's like, I was just taking a Tony Arsenal: shower. You know what's interesting? Um, I saw another video was on a different channel, um, like common jumping spiders. Yeah. Which there are like hundreds of species of common jumping spiders. Jesse Schwamb: True. Tony Arsenal: Um, but spiders and jumping spiders specifically, actually you can form almost like a pet bond with, so like the, that jumping spider that like lives in your house and sees you every day. He, he probably knows who you are and is like, comfortable with you. And they've done studies that like you can actually domesticate jumping spiders, so they're not as foreign and alien as you might think. Although they certainly do look a little bit strange and weird. And the way their bodies move is almost designed to weird out people like it just the skinness, like the way their legs skitter and move it, it just is, it's, it triggers something very primal in us to That's wild. Be weirded out by it. Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: It's wild. I love it. That's a good, a affirmation. I'm definitely gonna check that out. I, any, anything? I really want to know what the, what like the terrifying arachni is. That's not a spider. Tony Arsenal: It's a, well, it's called a camel spider, but it's not really a spider. Oh, Jesse Schwamb: I know what you're talking about. That is kind of terrifying. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. They, they actually don't have any venom. Um, yeah. Check out the video. I mean, it, it was a good video. Um, but yeah, they're freaky looking and, um, but even that, like he was handling it No problem. Yeah. Like it wasn't, it wasn't aggressive with him once Wow. Once it figured out it wasn't, he wasn't trying to hurt him and, and that it couldn't eat him. Um, it, it just sort of like hung out until he let it go. So Jesse Schwamb: yeah, just be careful if you watch it one before bed or while in bed. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Probably not right before bed. Yeah. You'll, you'll get the creepy crawlies all night. Jesse Schwamb: I love it. But there's something somewhat. Like invigorating about that isn't there? Like it's, it's kind of a natural, just like kind of holy respect for the world that God has created, that they're these features that are so different, so wild, so interesting and a little bit frightening, but in the sense that we just draw off from them because they're so different than what we are. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse Schwamb: And you know, again, there's places you would be happy to see them, but maybe your bathtub or like shooting out, like, you know, like where you live, the jumping spiders are legit and they will just pop out on you, you know? Yeah. You're just doing your own thing and then all of a sudden they're popping out. I think part of that is just that what, what gets me is like them just, you know, like I remember in my basement here, once one popped out from a rafter and then I was holding, happened to be holding up broom. My instinct just naturally was to hit it. I hit it with the broom and it went across the room and fell on an empty box and sounded like a silver dollar had hit the box. Like it was just a massive, I mean, again, like, it's like fish stories, like it's a massive spider. It was a big spider. Yeah. But you just don't expect to, to see that kind of thing. Or maybe, maybe I should, but anything that moves in that way, and again, like centipedes, man, forget it. We have those too, like in our basement. Like the long ones. Oh yeah. Yeah. That thing will come like squiggling down the wall at you, like eye level and you just wanna run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. Tony Arsenal: Yeah, you do run up the stairs screaming like a little girl. It's not that you want to, it's that usually you do. I don't mean like you specifically, although probably you specifically. Yeah. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. There's, yeah, you just react. Well, j Jesse enough freaking out. I mean, we're getting close to Halloween, so I suppose it's appropriate, but, uh, enough of that. What are you affirming or denying today? Jesse Schwamb: Once again, without like any coordination, mine is not unlike yours. I know you and I, we talk about the world in which we live, which God has created, and this lovely command, this ammunition to take dominion over that. And one of the things I appreciate about our conversations is I think you and I often have maybe not like a novel. Kinda perspective on that, but one that I don't hear talked about often and that is this idea of taking dominion over what it is possible to know and to appropriate, and then to apply onto wisdom. [00:10:27] Affirmation: Khan Academy Jesse Schwamb: And so my information is in that realm. It's another form of taking ownership of what's in the wild of knowledge that you can possess. And again, equal parts. What an amazing time to be alive. So I'm affirming with the website, Khan Academy, which I'm sure many are familiar with. And this website offers like. Thousands of hours. Uh, and materials of free instructional videos, practice exercises, quizzes, all these like really bespoke, personalized learning modules you can create for topics like math, science, computing, economics, history, art. I think it goes like even starting at like. Elementary age all the way up into like early college can help you study for things like the SAT, the LSAT AP courses, and I was revisiting it. I have an open account with them that I keep in love and I go back to it from time to time. And I was working on some stuff where I wanted to rehearse some knowledge in like the calculus space, do some things by hand, which I haven't done. And I was just like, I'm blown away at how good this stuff is. And it's all for free. I mean, you should donate if you. You get something from this because it's a nonprofit, but the fact that there are these amazing instructional videos out there that can help us get a better understanding of either things we already know and we can rehearse the knowledge or to learn something brand new essentially for free. But somebody's done all the hard work to curate a pedagogy for you. Honestly, this is incredible. So if you haven't looked at that website in a long time or maybe ever, and you might be thinking, what, what do I really wanna learn? Lemme tell you. There's a lot of interesting stuff there and it's so approachable and it's such a good website for teaching. And if you have children in particular, even if you're looking for help, either helping them with their own coursework or maybe to have like kind of a tutor on the side, this is so good. So I can't say enough good things recently about Khan Academy 'cause it's been so helpful to me and super fun to like just sit and have your own paced study and in the private and comfort of your own home or your desk at work or wherever it is that you need to learn it. To be able to have somebody teach you some things, to do a little practice exercises, and then to go on to the world and to apply the things you've learned. Ah, it's so good. Tony Arsenal: Nice. Yeah, I've, I've never done anything with Khan Academy. I'll have to check it out. There's, um, there's some skills of needing to brush up on, uh, at work that I am probably not gonna be able to find in my normal channels, so I'll have to see if there is anything going on there. Um, but yeah, that's, that's good stuff. And it's free. Love freestyle. It's,...
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The Wheat Among Weeds: Christ's Call to Faithful Endurance
10/17/2025
The Wheat Among Weeds: Christ's Call to Faithful Endurance
In episode 465 of The Reformed Brotherhood, hosts Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb explore Jesus's parable of the wheat and tares (weeds) from Matthew 13. This thought-provoking discussion examines Christ's startling teaching that good and evil will always coexist within the visible church until the end of time. The brothers carefully unpack the theological implications of Jesus's command not to separate wheat from weeds prematurely, challenging our natural tendency to judge others while offering wisdom about God's sovereign plan for final judgment. This episode wrestles with difficult questions about church purity, assurance of salvation, and how believers should approach the reality of false professors within Christ's church—providing biblical guidance for faithfully enduring in a mixed communion. Key Takeaways The Coexistence of True and False Believers: Jesus teaches that the visible church will always contain a mixture of genuine believers and false professors until the final judgment. The Danger of Premature Judgment: Christ explicitly warns against attempting to completely purify the church before the harvest (end of age) because doing so would damage the wheat (true believers). Proper Biblical Interpretation: Unlike some parables, Jesus provides a detailed allegorical explanation of this parable—the sower is Christ, the field is the world, the good seed represents believers, and the weeds are the sons of the evil one. The Challenge of Discernment: One of the most difficult theological pills to swallow is that it's often impossible to perfectly distinguish between true and false believers. Final Judgment as God's Prerogative: The separation of wheat from weeds is reserved for the angels at the end of the age, not for current church leaders or members. The Reality of False Assurance: Some professing Christians may have false assurance of salvation while genuinely believing they are saved. The Importance of Theological Integrity: Public theologians and pastors have a moral responsibility to be transparent about their theological convictions and changes in their beliefs. Deeper Explanations The Difficult Reality of a Mixed Church Jesus's teaching in the parable of the wheat and weeds directly challenges our natural desire for a perfectly pure church. By instructing the servants not to pull up the weeds lest they damage the wheat, Christ is establishing an important ecclesiological principle that will hold true until His return. This means that no matter how rigorously we apply church discipline or how carefully we examine profession of faith, we will never achieve a perfectly pure communion this side of eternity. The visible church—which can be understood as those who profess faith and are baptized—will always include both true and false believers. This reality should cultivate humility in how we approach church membership and discipline. Jesus isn't suggesting that all attempts at church purity are wrong (as other Scripture passages clearly call for church discipline), but rather that perfect purification is impossible and attempts at achieving it will inevitably damage true believers. This teaching directly refutes movements throughout church history (like Donatism) that have sought absolute purity in the visible church. The Problem of Discernment and Assurance One of the most challenging aspects of this parable is Christ's implicit teaching that true and false professors can appear nearly identical, especially in their early development. Like tares growing alongside wheat, false believers can profess orthodox doctrine, participate in church life, and exhibit what appears to be spiritual fruit. This creates profound implications for how we understand assurance of salvation. As Tony notes, while "assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian," there's also the sobering reality of false assurance. Some may sincerely believe they are saved when they are not, raising difficult questions about self-examination and spiritual discernment. This doesn't mean believers should live in perpetual doubt, but rather that we should approach assurance with both confidence in God's promises and healthy self-examination. True assurance must be grounded in the finished work of Christ rather than merely in our experiences or behaviors, while false assurance often lacks this proper foundation. The brothers wisely note that final judgment belongs to God alone, who perfectly knows who belongs to Him. Memorable Quotes "The visible church is set before us as a mixed body. Maybe everybody else's churches, but certainly not my church, like the one that I actually go to on the Lord's day. So it seems like there might be this shocking statement possibly that he has for us, whether you're Episcopalian or Presbyterian or independent or Baptist or Christian life assembly, whatever it is, that no matter what we do to purify the church, our churches, we're never gonna succeed in obtaining a perfectly pure communion." - Jesse Schwamb "I think that's what I find shocking. It is like a massive statement of reality that is at equal points totally sensible. And other times we would think, 'well, surely not in the church Lord, like of all the places, like aren't we talking about a kind of purity of your people?' ...and what I think he's striking at, which I do find a little bit wild, is that Jesus is essentially saying, at least to my ear, anything we try to do, even the purest preaching of the gospel, is not gonna prevent this in every age of the church." - Jesse Schwamb "I'm affirming that assurance is the proper and rightful possession and inheritance of every Christian." - Tony Arsenal Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 465 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I am Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Guess what? It looks like you and I are taking another trip back to the farm on this episode. Tony Arsenal: Yes. For a couple episodes. Jesse Schwamb: For a couple episodes. Yeah. [00:01:01] Exploring Jesus' Parables in Matthew 13 Jesse Schwamb: Because what, Jesus will not stop leading us there. We're looking at his teachings, specifically the parables, and we're gonna be looking in Matthew chapter 13, where it seems like, is it possible that Jesus, once again has something very shocking for us to hear? That is for all the ages. 'cause it seems like he might actually be saying, Tony, that good and evil will always be found together in the professing church until the end of the world. Like in other words, that the visible church is set before a mixed body. I mean. Maybe everybody else chose churches, but certainly not my church, like the one that I actually go to on the Lord's day. So it seems like there might be this shocking statement possibly that he has for us, whether you're Episcopalian or Presbyterian or independent or Baptist or Christian life assembly, whatever it is, that no matter what we do to purify the church, our churches, we're never gonna succeed in obtaining a perfectly pure communion. Could that possibly be what Jesus is saying to us? I don't know what we're gonna find out. Tony Arsenal: We are. We are gonna find out. Jesse Schwamb: It's gonna be definitive. And if now that makes sense. If you don't even know why we're looking at Jesus' teachings, you could do us a favor even before you go any further. And that is just head on over in your favor, interwebs browser to or reform brotherhood.com, and you can find out all of the other episodes, all 464 that are living out there. There's all kinds of good stuff, at least we think so, or at least entertaining stuff for you to listen to. And when you're done with all of that in a year or two, then we'll pick it up right back here where we're about to go with some affirmations or some denials. [00:02:39] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: So Tony, before we figure out what Jesus has for us in Matthew 13, in the parable of the weeds, or the tears, or the tears in the weed, what gets all of that? Are you affirming with, are you denying against, Tony Arsenal: I am denying. First of all, I'm denying whatever this thing is that's going on with my throat. Sorry for the rest of the episode, everyone. Um, I'm denying something that I, I think it is. How do I want to phrase this? Um, maybe I'll call it theological integrity, and maybe that's too strong of a word, but maybe not. So the listener who's been with us for a little while will remember that a while back. Um, you know, we've, we've talked about Matthew Barrett and he was a Baptist, uh, who's heavily involved in sort of the theology, proper controversies. He wrote Simply Trinity, which is just a fantastic book. He was a teacher or a professor at Midwestern, um, Baptist Theological Seminary. And he recently, um, uh, converted is not the right word. I hate calling it a conversion when you go from one faithful Bible tradition to another. But he recently, um, changed his perspective and joined the Anglican Church. And at the time I kind of, you know, I kind of talked about it as like, it's a little bit disappointing, like the reasons he cited. [00:03:57] Theological Integrity and Public Disclosure Tony Arsenal: Where I'm bringing this into a matter of sort of theological integrity. And it's not, it's not just Matthew Barrett. Um, there's other elements of things going on that I'll, I'll point to too is it's often the case when someone who is in some form of professional theological work or professional vocational ministry, that as they start to change perspectives, um, there comes to be like an inflection point where they should notify whoever it is that they are accountable to in that job or vocation, uh, uh, and then do the right thing and step down. Right? And so with Matthew Barrett, um. He continued to teach systematic theology at a Baptist Theological Seminary, which has a faith statement which he was obligated to affirm and hold in good faith. He continued to teach there for quite some time, if, you know, when he, when he published the timeline and he's the one that put all the timelines out there. So it's not like people had to go digging for this. Um, he continued to teach under contract and under that, that faith statement, um, for quite some time after his positions changed. I remember in college, um, sim very similar situation, one of my professors, um, and I went to a Baptist college. It was a General Baptist college. Um, one of my professors became Roman Catholic and for quite some time he continued to teach without telling anyone that he had converted to Roman Catholicism. Um. And I think that there's a, there's a, a level of integrity that public theologians need to have. Um, and it, it really makes it difficult when something like this happens to be able to say that this is not a moral failing or some sort of failure. Um, you know, James White has jumped on the bandwagon very quickly to say, of course we told you that this was the way it was gonna lead. That if you affirm the great tradition, you know, he was very quick to say like, this is the road to Rome. And I think in his mind, um, Canterbury is just sort of one, one stop on that trip. Um, it becomes very hard after the fact to not have this color and tarnish all of your work before. 'cause it starts to be questions like, well, when, when did you start to hold these views? Were you writing, were you, were you publicizing Baptist theology when you no longer believed it to be the truth? Were you teaching theology students that this is what the Bible teaches when you no longer thought that to be true? Um. Were you secretly attending Anglican services and even teaching and, and helping deliver the service when you were, you know, still outwardly affirming a Baptist faith statement. And the reason I, I'll point out one other thing, 'cause I don't want this to be entirely about Matthew Barrett, but there's a big, uh, hub glue going on in the PCA right now. Um, a guy named Michael Foster, who some of our audience will probably be familiar with, um, he and I have had our desktops in the past, but I think he and I have come to a little bit of a, of a uneasy truce on certain things. He, uh, went to work compiling a, a list and there's some problems with the data, like it's, it's not clean data, so take it for what it's worth. But he compiled a list of. Every publicly available church website in the PCA. So something like 1800 websites or something like that. Huge numbers. And he went and looked at all of the staff and leadership directories, and he cataloged all the churches that had some sort of office or some sort of position that appeared to have a, a woman leading in a way that the Bible restricts. And that more importantly, and starting to say it this way, but more importantly, that the PCA itself restricts. So we're not talking about him going to random church websites and making assessments of their polity. We're talking about a, a denomination that has stated standards for who can bear office and it's not women. Um. So he compiled this and people in the PCA are coming out of the woodwork to basically defend the practice of having shepherdess and deacons. There was one that he cataloged where, um, the website actually said, uh, that was the pastor's wife and the title was Pastor of Women. Um, and then as soon as it became public that this was the case, they very quickly went in and changed the title to Shepherd of Women or Shepherdess of Women or something like that. So it's, it's really the same phenomena, not commenting, you know, I think we've been clear where we stand on the ordination of female officers and things like that, but not that all that withstanding, um, when you are going to be a part of a body that has a stated perspective on something and then just decide not to follow it, the right thing to do the, the upstanding morally. Uh, in full of integrity move would be to simply go to another denomination where your views align more closely. PCA churches, it's not super easy, but it's not impossible to leave the PCA as an entire congregation and then go somewhere like the EPC, which is the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, which still on the spectrum of things is still relatively conservative, but is in general is in favor of, uh, female officers, elders, and diegans. So I, I think, you know, and you see this with podcasters, there was the big, there was a big fu and Les became a Presbyterian, and then when Tanner became a Presbyterian on the pub, I think it is, um, incumbent on people who do any form of public theology and that that would include me and Jesse when our views change. There comes a point where we need to disclose that, be honest about it, um, and not try to pretend that we continue to hold a view that we don't be just because it's convenient or because it might be super inconvenient to make a change. I don't even want to pretend to imagine the pressures, uh, that someone like Matthew Barrett would face. I mean, you're talking about losing your entire livelihood. I, I understand that from an intellectual perspective, how difficult that must be, but in some ways, like that kind of comes with the territory. Same thing with a pastor. You have a Baptist pastor or a Presbyterian pastor. It can go both ways, I think. I'm more familiar with Baptist becoming Presbyterians. I don't, I don't see as many going the other direction. But you have a, a Baptist pastor who comes to pay to Baptist convictions and then continues to minister in their church for, I've, I've seen cases where they continue to minister for years, um, because they don't, they don't have the ability to now just go get a job in a Presbyterian context because there's all sorts of, um, training and certification and ordination process that needs to happen. Um, so they just continue ministering where they are, even though they no longer believe the church's state of, you know, state of faith statement. So that's a lot to say. Like, let your yes be yes and your no be no, and when we really all boil it down. So I think that's enough of that. It, it just sort of got in my craw this week and I couldn't really stop thinking about it. 'cause it's been very frustrating. And now there are stories coming out of. Doctoral students that, um, that Barrett was teaching who have now also become Anglican. Um, so, you know, there starts to be questions of like, was he actively pros? I mean, this is like Jacob Arminius did this stuff and, and like the reform tradition would look down on it, where he was in secret in like sort of small group private settings. He was teaching convictions very different than the uni. I'm talking about Arminius now. Not necessarily Barrett. He was teaching convictions very different than the, the stated theology of the university he taught for, and then in public he was sort of towing the line. You have to ask the question and it is just a question. There's been no confirmation that I'm aware of, but you have to ask the question if that was what was going on with Barrett, was he teaching Baptist theology publicly and then meeting with, with PhD students privately and, and sort of convincing them of Anglican theology. I don't know. I'm not speculating on that, but I think it, the situation definitely right, brings that question to mind. It forces us to ask it. Um, and had he. Been transparent about his theological shifts sooner than that may not be a, a question we have to ask. Um, the situation may not be all that different, but we wouldn't have to ask the question. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's totally fair. I mean, disclosure is important in lots of places in life and we shouldn't think that theological dis disclosure, especially like you're saying among our teachers, among our pastors, it is a critical thing. It's helpful for people to know when perspectives have changed, especially when they're looking to their leaders who are exhibiting trust and care over their discipleship or their education to express that difference. If there's been a mark, change it. It's worth it. Disclose, I'm guessing you don't have to over disclose, but that we're talking about a critical, we're talking about like subversive anglicanism, allegedly. Yeah. Then. It would be more than helpful to know that that is now shaping not just perspective, but of course like major doctrine, major understanding. Yeah. And then of course by necessary conviction and extension, everything that's being promulgated or proclamation in the public sphere from that person is likely now been permeated by that. And we'd expect so. Right. If convictions change, and especially like you're talking about, we're just talking about moving from, especially among like Bible believing traditions, just raise the hand and say loved ones, uh, this is my firm conviction now. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I think if someone walks up to you and says, do you think that we should baptize babies? And you're like, yeah, I think so. Then you probably shouldn't be teaching at a Baptist seminary anymore. Like, seems like a reasonable standard. And that seems to be what happened, at least for some period of time. Um, you know, and, and it, that's not to say like, I think, I think there are instances where the church, a given church or um, or a university or seminary or, or whatever the situation might be, can be gracious and recognize like, yeah, people's perspectives change and maybe we can find a way for you to continue to finish out the semester or, you know, we can bridge you for a little while until you can find a new, a new job. Um, you know, we'll, we'll only have you teach certain courses or we'll have a guest lecturer come in when you have to cover this subject that is at variance and like, we'll make sure we're all clear about it, but it doesn't seem like any of that happened. And that's, um, that's no...
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Choking Thorns or Bearing Fruit: The Battle for Your Devotion
10/10/2025
Choking Thorns or Bearing Fruit: The Battle for Your Devotion
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb conclude their three-part exploration of the Parable of the Sower, focusing on the final two soils. They examine the sobering reality of the thorny soil—where cares of the world and deceitfulness of riches choke out genuine faith—before unpacking the nature of the good soil that bears fruit. The discussion weaves together important theological concepts including divine regeneration, the dangers of idolatry, and what true fruitfulness in the Christian life looks like. Rather than causing believers to anxiously question their salvation, this episode offers encouraging clarity about God's sovereign work in preparing hearts to receive His Word and produce lasting spiritual fruit. Key Takeaways The thorny soil represents the most deceptive and dangerous condition where the gospel message appears to take root but is ultimately choked out by worldly concerns and deceitfulness of riches. Fruitfulness is evidence of salvation, not its cause. The good soil bears fruit because God has prepared it, not the other way around. God's judgment can work through our idols by allowing them to choke out His Word in our lives when we prioritize them above Him. The parable isn't teaching that Christians must produce a specific quantity of fruit (30, 60, or 100-fold), but rather that genuine faith will inevitably produce some fruit. The "indicative precedes the imperative" in Christian life—our identity in Christ (good soil) produces the fruit of good works, not the reverse. Division of devotion is impossible in the Christian life—we cannot simultaneously serve God and anything else as our highest priority. Divine regeneration is necessary for anyone to hear and understand the Word savingly—the good soil is prepared by God Himself. The Danger of the Thorny Soil The thorny soil represents perhaps the most unsettling and deceptive condition in the Parable of the Sower. Unlike the path (where the seed never takes root) or the rocky soil (where it quickly withers), the seed among thorns actually establishes roots and begins to grow before being choked out. This makes it particularly frightening to contemplate—it represents those who receive the gospel with apparent sincerity and show initial growth, but ultimately prove fruitless because worldly concerns and material desires claim their ultimate devotion. As Tony points out, "This is talking about someone who is not chosen by God. He is not the elect of God. Otherwise, the riches would not have choked out the word, but it is a divine act of judgment." The thorny soil shows us how God can use our own idols—whether wealth, career, family, or even good causes—as instruments of judgment when we elevate them to a place of supreme importance in our lives. When we attempt to serve two masters, we inevitably end up serving only one, and it will not be God. The Nature of Good Soil and True Fruitfulness The good soil in the parable represents those whom God has specially prepared to receive His Word. The hosts emphasize that the soil doesn't prepare itself—this is entirely God's work of regeneration. Just as a field left to itself doesn't naturally become productive farmland, no heart naturally receives the gospel without divine intervention. Importantly, the parable doesn't teach that Christians must produce a specific quantity of fruit. Whether 30, 60, or 100-fold, the point is that genuine faith produces fruit—period. As Tony explains, "This is not a call to look at your fruit and try to figure out how much you have and if you have enough of it. The point of the parable is not, your only good soil if you produce at least 30 fold. That's overinterpreting the parable." This understanding brings freedom from anxious self-examination about whether we're "fruitful enough" and instead focuses on the fundamental reality that those whom God has regenerated will bear the fruit of Christlikeness in their lives. Memorable Quotes "I tend to think, as I've gotten older, but also just I think as I've learned more experientially about theology and about the faith... I don't think you can be serious enough about Jesus Christ." — Tony Arsenal "It's not that the fruit makes the tree good. The good tree makes the good fruit... The indicative here is the good soil. The indicative is what God has done in preparing the soil." — Tony Arsenal "The struggle is real, but it's a battle that I think is worth fighting... We've gotta do better and it's worth trying." — Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript Jesse Schwamb" Welcome to episode 464 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. The band is back. Tony Arsenal: It is. It's, and we're gonna be Jesse Schwamb: digging through a little dirt and sifting some soil. Today on this episode. Sounded like a threat. We're gonna be digging up some dirt. I realized once it came outta my mouth, it sounded like we were, what? What did the kids say? Like, spilling the tea. Spilling the tea. It sounded like we were gonna talk about something scandalous. Actually, maybe it is. It's a little bit scandalous. Yeah, it's not, not scandalous. Not Tony Arsenal: that kind of scandalous. Yeah. This is not that kind of podcast. Jesse Schwamb: Yes, that's true. If you were tuning in thinking it was that podcast, whatever that is, it's not what you're thinking. True. It's something far better. [00:01:21] Setting the Theme: Parable of the Sower Jesse Schwamb: In fact, one of the things that it seems like we're always talking about is how the Bible makes it clear that those who make a genuine profession of faith will continue in that confession of faith. And that's really the theme on which we're about today. We're gonna be wrapping up this whole parable of the sower or the soils. We started with the first two soils, then took a quick excursion where we went back and kinda looked at some of those things happening in the first two soils all over again. And now we're gonna close it out. So we're, we're gonna get down and dirty, not in the way that you're thinking. More, more in like a, a Matthew 13 kind of way. All right. So yes, come meet us there. Roll up your sleeves if you wanna get your hands in the soil, that's where we're gonna be hanging out. But of course, before we do that, before we get into any kinda gardening, any kinda horticulture, any kinda seed throwing, let's first do a little affirming width or denying against. So, Tony, I missed you last week. It was, it's always, it's never the same. Yeah. And I was always thinking, man, I need a Tony right now. So, hit us with, are you affirming with something or are you denying against something? [00:02:24] Affirmations and Denials: Roman Catholicism Tony Arsenal: I, I'm coming in hot with a denial today. Jesse Schwamb: I, I thought you might be, I suspected, Tony Arsenal: yeah. So I was on, uh, Twitter or I suppose they call it X Now. That's never gonna stick in my mind. Uh, and I came across a little meme, and I don't know if it's because the pope. Is like crazy, like did this weird ice blessing thing or if it's just the algorithm. But I've been getting a ton of like Roman Catholic stuff on my, my Is a Feed. Okay. I don't even know what they call it anymore. Uh, has been coming across my screen on, on X and I'm gonna, I'm gonna give a disclaimer here. What I'm about to describe is a meme that has a two, a second commandment violation in it. There's no way for me to describe the meme without describing the meme. So if, if you don't want to hear it, then just fast forward, hit the little, like 15 second forward button twice on your keyboard. I, I don't feel convicted that I'm sending by describing this to you, but if you do, I understand that conviction. So feel free to skip ahead. So the meme is a picture, it's a little cartoon, it's a picture of Mary, and there's a, a, I think it's supposed to be a toddler, although it wasn't really drawn like a toddler. There's a, a small child sort of standing behind her, grabbing her sleeve going, mom, mom, mom, obviously this is supposed to be, uh, Christ. And the caption says the first Hail Mary, right? And, and so I'm denying, first of all, like I'm denying that this meme exists because of course we shouldn't be making images of Jesus and, and. It's flippant and all those things. Um, on on top of that, this is an encapsulation of what the Roman Catholic Church actually believes about the relationship between Christ and Mary is that Mary is essentially in charge of Christ even now. This is why the Roman Catholic Church would argue that you go to Mary to get salvation because she then gets it to, gets it for you from Jesus. And so the meme is blasphemous like. To the nth degree on a couple different levels. Of course, it's blasphemous in that it is perpetuating a false, uh, a false understanding of the relationship between Christ and Mary, where Christ, uh, I think, I think the most technical Roman Catholic theologians would probably say like Christ as a man, although I'm not sure how they sustain that, because they actually would, would argue that, you know, they would, they would argue that the reason that, uh, Mary can give you salvation is because she can ask it of Christ. And Christ is obligated to, um, grant her request and obey her, um, her directions and commands. Um, but then of course, like it also just reveals. Um, at least in this particular instance, it reveals that there is a certain form of reverence and a certain, certain form of regard that is typically reserved for Mary. And there was no qualms in this case of basically making Jesus look like a whiny toddler. Um, you know, again, I affirm the full humanity of Christ. Uh, toddlers are not necessarily sinning when they have a temper tantrum that it's a brain development thing. It's, it's not necessarily sinful. So I think Jesus cried as a baby. He probably had tough time dealing with emotions as a, as a toddler, just like all toddlers do. But to sort of make this into, uh, make, to make Jesus the punchline of the joke as like the whiny toddler yelling, mom, mom, mom, um, you know, and Mary's got like a wide eyes, like a frustrated mother. Uh, it, it just, everything about it rubbed me the wrong way. So I'm denying, I guess, the Roman Catholic. Veneration of Mary in like the most core sense, but just also that veneration of Mary has necessarily denigrated Christ from his proper role. That that's it. That's the denial. Jesse Schwamb: That was full, that was chock full of all kinds of good stuff. I'm with you. We've had a long tradition, I think you and I have as we've grown. I think it matured into some degree of really just coming against all kinds of representations in this way, like all kind of kitschy niche, like jokes of this kind of manner. Even if there's like seemingly well intentioned or they're just poking a little bit of fun, whether that's like the, the encapsulation of those like precious moments style figurines where Right. This is time where it's like the sacred bowing to the secular and it's, you know, or sorry, the other way around. Yeah. The secular bowing, the sacred where you have, you know, Santa Claus bowing before the manger. It's weird. Or whether you have like that t-shirt that is an image of Jesus. Goal on soccer says Jesus saves. Yeah. You know, this is way worse than that, but it's in this weird realm of wanting to like poke and have a little bit of fun and be cute about spiritual matters. Yeah, and you're right, certainly has like an entry point or a root and things like that. Sometimes, like we we're not even. I think sometimes the people putting those things out aren't even understanding themselves. But it causes like all kinds of problems with like this idea of Mary, for instance, as a emrex, which are, in some ways you're talking about this weird cooperation and, and even if it's insubordinate way with a Christ redemptive work, her free consent in baring him as a son and then the spiritual union with him and suffering on the cross. And probably many people, if there posting it be like, whoa, whoa, whoa. That's not at all what I intended. But really it draws all of that in. It's so problematic. And so, yeah, for the person that's looking at that and then actually does some research and wants to understand what could be implied in this, you're gonna find all kinds of really horrible stuff that leads you astray. And then for those that just look at it and say, well, isn't that funny? That's also equally a problem because Yep. It's not a matter to be trifled with or to be a punchline of a joke. Some things are just not I, I'm with you. You know, we've talked about. Whether or not in that old Christmas hymn, like not a, not a sound, he makes no crying. He makes, whether that's doism or not. And we've said that so much time in cheek, but it illustrates this point that Jesus identifies with us critically and fully in our humanity, yet with without sin, he doesn't cease to be the son of God in his coming down and condescending to be like us, to be with us. That's all critically important, but the minute that we denigrate that by these, this kind of imagery or this kind of joke making is really the place where you fall really. We just fly really fire field of what the Bible teaches. It's good to have this warning. Yeah. It's good to have the, I think you're, you're calling us like the alarm bells in our mind and, and that's good. Whether it's like blatant that we see it and we can critically identify it in front of us or whether like we're just prone to make the joke or to participate it. Yeah, because we think, uh, it's, it's edgy and that's okay. It's just not. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. [00:08:54] The Importance of Reverence Tony Arsenal: I tend to think, um, and I've, I've come more this direction as I've, as I've gotten older, uh, but also just I think as I've learned more experientially about theology and about the faith, um, you know, I think you come outta seminary with a head full of knowledge and not a lot of experiential religion. And as I've had more experiential religion in my life, I don't think you can be serious enough about Jesus Christ. Yeah, that's fair. And so I think anytime that you are trying to say like, well, don't take it so seriously. Like, what do you mean don't take the God of the universe so seriously? Don't take the savior of the world and the, the one who died for my sin. So seriously. I, I just think there are probably people out there that would be like, quit being such a like scrooge about this. Why can't, you just can't just take a joke. And I think if I'm gonna err on the side of either being too serious about. The one who died in my place and not risking, uh, denigrating him or reducing him to the butt of a joke or, uh, or err on the side of, you know, being funny. Like, I think I'm gonna take the safe option and just say like, God says not to blaspheme his name and not to make light of, and take vain the things that he uses to reveal himself. And certainly. Jesus is the supreme revelation of God and is God himself. That's right. So we should not ever take that lightly or vainly. So, and again, like it's funny that you say like, people who are looking at this, you bring in concepts of the trics might be like, whoa, that's not what I meant. I, I think actually the thoughtful, well, well-informed Roman Catholic, that's exactly what they meant. And that's also why, uh, we're getting to that time of year where that Mary, the constellation of Eve, um, painting is about to start circulating and everybody's about to start fighting online like that, that image of Mary looking down at Eve's belly or you know, Eve looking down at, at Mary's belly. And it's very beautiful and very touching and very emotional. Um, oh, and also like Mary is standing on a snake's head, right? Like, it, it's Roman Catholic theology baked into the, baked into the pie. Right. And you can't get it out of there. So I, I think that's important to, to remember and just in general, like we should just. There's no place for that in reformed theology. There's no really no place for that in Protestant theology. Um, I suppose you can make an argument that, um, other Protestant traditions do hold Mary in a higher regard than reformed theology does. I, I would dispute that because I think when we put her in a place that she shouldn't be, we're actually putting her in a lower regard. Um, so that's enough about that. Again, that's, that's the denial. It shouldn't surprise anybody that I'm, I'm an anti papus, uh, not an anti papist. I'm anti papus tree. I like papus. Papus tend to be nice people. There you go. Um, and, and I want them to, to know Jesus truly and fully, but uh, their theology's junk. I'm not afraid to say it. That's good. All I've got to say about that Jesse Schwamb: big swing and a miss. Yes. And I should probably say, Les, anybody think we're moving in this direction? I wanna clarify something. I think you'd agree with me on this, Tony, that we're certainly not implying, nor I think would it, we would actually believe if pressed on this, that Jesus himself didn't have a sense of humor. That's not really what we're saying here. I think this is more about the fact that Jesus deserves our, like every ounce, every modicum of respect, adoration and worship that we give him. He deserves it all and more. So it's interesting to me when you look at the span, like kinda the swath of word religions and philosophies. I, and maybe we talked about this before and I don't want to get us like on, off, off, on some kinda weird excursions. It's interesting to me how in some of those views. They hold their prophets or they hold their religious figures in higher regard, and the world respects that. I think one of the ways we see that Christianity is in fact real, that it is separate and distinct from all those things, that it is the absolute truth is that we would expect that if the first commands in particular are focused on us, honoring God, worshiping him rightly, holding him in a nce and highend lifted place, then the enemy would do everything possible to undermine that in every conceivable medium, in every conceivable way. Yeah, and that's exactly what we find with Jesus, both his name and his image. I, I just find that very interesting that why is it that cultures around the world, if you want to take someone's name in vain, it is predominantly the name of Jesus, right. And so I, I just think there's like a massive attack that, that the enemy leverages against humanity, against Christians, against culture to say denigrate Jesus. Anything that you can do to put him down in some kind of way to make him the brother joke, small or large, to use his name in a way that's opposite the way it's ought to be intended. And everywhere we fine. That's exactly what's happening. And in a way that's like, to my mind, I haven't done like a formal survey. You tell me like disproportionate to any other name, any other expression, any other like profiting or profiling like a religious leader or worldview to use in some kind of negative or like horrible way? Tony Arsenal: I, I can't think of another, I actually can't think of another example of that in, at least in the West, um, I, I, you know, people would joke around and be like, buy Odin's beard, but like that's obviously a joke. Yes. Um, it's obviously people who are trying to. Mock the mockery of Jesus like there, yes. And in, in itself, that's actually an attempt again to demonstrate how foolish they think Jesus is by comparing them to the obviously false, ridiculous idea that Odin is existing. So I, I think, yeah, I think you're right. I, I, I don't think I know of a serious actual usage of another religious figure's name that is comparable to the way that people bla him our Lord. So...
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Fertile Ground: Cultivating a Heart That Truly Hears God's Word
10/03/2025
Fertile Ground: Cultivating a Heart That Truly Hears God's Word
In this solo episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb explores the profound depths of Jesus' Parable of the Sower from Matthew 13. While this parable might seem unassuming compared to others, Jesse reveals how it serves as the "granddaddy" of all parables—offering a God's-eye view of salvation through the ordinary imagery of farming. The episode examines why different people respond differently to the same gospel message, and challenges listeners to consider what kind of soil their own hearts represent. Through historical context and theological reflection, Jesse unpacks how this parable prepares believers for the mixed responses they'll encounter when sharing the gospel and reminds us that the efficacy of salvation depends not on the sower's skill, but on God's sovereign work in preparing hearts to receive His Word. Key Takeaways The Parable of the Sower provides a framework for understanding the various responses to the gospel message, serving as preparation for disciples who would face both acceptance and rejection. Jesus' parables, particularly the Sower, demonstrate how God uses ordinary, mundane things to express profound spiritual truths about His kingdom. The efficacy of salvation doesn't depend on the skill of the sower but on God's sovereign work in preparing the soil of human hearts. God's Word never returns void but always comes back "full" of either acceptance or rejection—it accomplishes exactly what God intends. Historical context matters: Jesus' audience had high expectations for a Messiah who would establish an earthly kingdom, but Jesus was revealing a different kind of kingdom. The Parable of the Sower shows that the kingdom of God isn't received equally by all—some receive it with joy while others reject it outright. Having "ears to hear" is a gift from God through the Holy Spirit, not merely intellectual understanding but spiritual receptivity. The Word That Never Returns Void The power of God's Word stands at the center of the Parable of the Sower. Jesse highlights Isaiah 55, where God declares that His word "shall not return empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose." Unlike human words that often fall flat, God's Word always achieves its intended effect. This doesn't mean universal salvation, but rather that God's purposes are never thwarted. When the gospel is proclaimed, it always returns to God "full" of something—either acceptance or rejection. The parable illustrates this reality by showing the various responses to the same seed. This should encourage believers in evangelism: we are simply called to faithfully sow the seed, while God determines the harvest according to His sovereign purposes. Our success is not measured by conversions but by faithfulness in proclamation. Kingdom Expectations vs. Kingdom Reality The historical context of Jesus' ministry reveals a profound disconnect between what people expected from the Messiah and what Jesus actually delivered. Jesse explains how the Jewish people anticipated a conquering king who would overthrow Roman oppression and establish a visible earthly kingdom. Instead, Jesus announced a kingdom that begins in the heart, dividing even families according to their response to Him. The Parable of the Sower anticipates this mixed response, preparing disciples for both acceptance and rejection. This teaches modern believers an important lesson: the gospel will not be universally embraced, even when perfectly presented. Some hearts are like paths, others rocky ground, others thorny soil. Yet we continue sowing because God has appointed some to be good soil—hearts prepared by the Holy Spirit to receive the Word and bear fruit. This reality should both humble us and embolden our witness. Quotes "The power of this message is in the message itself, but the medium by which it is delivered... it does pierce the heart. It does pierce through bone and marrow. It does divide because it always returns full of either acceptance or full of rebellion and denial." - Jesse Schwamb "We find ourselves humbled. We find ourselves rushing in, coming into the kingdom, fighting to come into it because God has impassioned us with that same zeal that has accomplished this very thing. He implants it in our hearts, in our minds, in our guts, so that we would come before him and worship him." - Jesse Schwamb "Consider what it means that this good news... that God's word is his deed. This is why... it's such a blessing to live in this period of time where we have such easy access for most of us to the word of God, and that we ought to be zealous about getting that word out to all people because behind it and within it and around it is the full power of the Holy Spirit." - Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript Welcome to episode 463 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse, and this is the podcast for those with ears to hear. Hey, brothers and sisters, so I am just one half. Of the Reform Brotherhood squad. Tony, of course, wanted to join us on this episode, but it sometimes happens in life. Our schedules were a little bit crazy this week, and God gave us responsibilities that put us in opposite directions for part of the time. And so that means that today on this episode, I thought. You and I, we could just hang out and Tony will be back to join us in the next episode. [00:01:20] Solo Episode and Parable Series Overview But for now, this is one of those solo or formed brotherhood episodes. And if you have been tracking with us, we just started this great and amazing journey on going through all the parables that our Lord and Savior gives to us in teaching us about the kingdom of God and its power. And we just started by talking about the parable of the sower, in fact. In the last episode, we just covered basically the first two soils, the first half of that amazing little story, and I thought it would be really, really great to camp out in that for just a little bit more because even though Tony's not here, the podcast goes on and we, Tony and I never really. Thinking about these things and when we start a series in particular, we always find that we just gotta keep going back on it in our minds ruminating on what we said and what God was teaching us and the conversations like all good conversations that draw your mind back to the things that you talked about, which I should say maybe before I begin in earnest, that is also my denial, which is saying things like, let's camp out in this text now to be. Sure. There's no wrong reason why, or there's no bad reason to say words like that. It's just when I hear myself say them, I think about all the things that Christians say, like saying like, we should camp out in this text, or Let's sit in it for a while. And I think maybe it's because I'm just not into camping or maybe because I think most of the time when you use the phrase like, sit in, it's not. A happy or blessed or joyful thing that you're describing. So I always find that funny, and yet here I am saying it because I just couldn't think of anything better to say except, you know what? We should pause and maybe ruminate a little bit more. On all of this good stuff that's in Matthew chapter 13, where Jesus gives us the parable of the sower, so you can join me in sharing which little Christian phrases maybe you think you hear, we say too much or just become rote or part and parcel what it means to talk. The best way for you to do that is do me a. Go to your favorite internet device and in the browser, type T me slash reform brotherhood, that will just take you that little link to a part of the internet using an app called Telegram where a bunch of brothers and sisters who listen to the podcast are chatting about the podcast, their live sharing prayer requests, and there's even a place for you to share, Hey, what are the things that Christians say that you think. Why do we say that? Why are we always talking about hedges of protection? Why are we always talking about camping out in a text? So that's a place that you can come hang out. So go to t.me/reform brotherhood. [00:03:56] Deep Dive into the Parable of the Sower But enough of that, let's talk a little bit more about this incredible parable that our Lord and Savior gives us in Matthew chapter 13. It's so, so short in fact that I figured. The best parts of any conversation about the Bible is just hearing from God in his word. So let me read just those couple of verses. It's just eight verses beginning in Matthew chapter 13, the parable of the sower. That same day, Jesus went out from the house and sat beside the sea and great crowds gathered about him so that he got into a boat and sat down and the whole crowd stood on the beach. And he told them many things in parables saying a sower went out to sow. And as he sowed, some seeds fell along the path and the birds came and devoured them. Other seeds fell on rocky ground where they did not have much soil, and immediately they sprang up since they had no depth of soil. But when the sun rose, they were scorched. And since they had no roots, they withered away. Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them. Other seed fell on good soil and produced grain. Some a hundred fold, some 60, some 30. He who has ears let him hear. [00:05:09] Personal Reflections on the Parable I have to say that of all the parables, and we mentioned in the previous episode that this one is kind of the granddaddy of them all. It's a god's eye view on salvation told in this lovely kind of encased way about horticulture and farming and growing plants. But to be totally transparent, I never really got into this parable. It was never really my favorite one. Like of all the things that Jesus says, of all the creative and wonderful terms of phrase, this one for me always just seemed to be lacking That stuff. You know, it doesn't have really strong characters. It's about a sower, seed and soil, and compared to some other things that seems kind of unassuming and. Not very exciting, quite honestly, to me, and it's not as exciting, I think, as stories about, I don't know, losing something of value and then suddenly finding it and rejoicing and having the characters, feeling yourself in those characters as they go about experiencing all the emotions. That Jesus expresses and keyed in these lovely little riddles called parables. And so for this one, it's always been a little bit kind of like a, okay. It's interesting and the point seems fairly straightforward and it just doesn't captivate me as the others. And I've been thinking about about that, how even in this, it just seems like a really normal, mundane, kind of pedestrian expression of a life in that time. And it's all wrapped up in gardening. And throwing seeds into the ground, not even having control of their outcome. And then in this way, though, expressing and explaining this grand narrative and arc of salvation from God's perspective. So it is, again, another lesson in God using ordinary, normal, almost seemingly mundane things to express his power, to express our lack of control and to show so that he does. Did I just say so to, so that he does all things and certainly we get so much of that in this parable, and so it made me think this week after Tony and I talked about it a little bit. Just how it raises a question in this really normative, kind of unassuming, almost boring, if I can say way, this really profound question, which is, will we be this fruitful, fertile soil? Will we be fruitful followers? Of Jesus Christ. And it doesn't just raise this question, I suppose it also gives us some hope, but it also does so with a warning. It is a maybe a little bit of law and gospel even embedded in these simple means of, again, talking about what it means to plant something and to entrust the planting, the acy of the growth there to the soil and the seed, and there's hope. There's warning and there's so much of that that's in this context of the parable, and that's what's led me to wanna talk to you all a little bit about that as we kinda process together more of what this means. [00:08:00] Historical Context and Expectations of the Messiah I was thinking that when Jesus began his ministry, when he's coming forward, he's really announcing the arrival of the kingdom of God. And it's helpful, I think, to meditate as a second on how profound that is, that he comes again, not just as the message, but the messenger and the medium of that message. I was just kinda ruminating on the fact that. Everybody had high expectations. There was no one, I think, with kind of a low opinion of what was about to happen or of what the Messiah was going to bring or what he was going to do. And here you have like explicitly Jesus' hearers, their ancestors would've been taken into exile and captivity because they had broken the covenant with God. And the prophets had made this case for God's punishment because of their idolatry and their injustice. But that message, and you get this especially in in books like Isaiah. Where there's this mixture that's bittersweet. There is not only an exclusive message of woe for the people, but there is at the same time up against sick, almost running parallel. This promise of a day when God, by his own effort in Zeal, would bring about a restoration where he'd set up visibly an earthly reign through his anointed Wanda Messiah. And so I can only imagine if I could. Even partially put myself in the place of these people who are hearing this particular parable, that there is all this sense that we have strayed from God, that we're covenant breakers, but that he has promised to make a way and that his own zeal will very much accomplish this, but it will be visible and earthly, not just spiritual in the sense that we believe these things and we internalize them in the sense for our being, and therefore we speak about them in these kind of grandiose and ephemeral terms. But more than that, that God was going to come and set up an earthly reign, purely manifested in the world in which we live and breathe and have our being. And so two things would happen. Israel's oppressors would be defeated. And God would institute a pure worship and a reestablished pure worship. And so I can't help but think maybe there was some of this expectation. They're, they're seeing this Messiah, this Jesus, the one who speaks with a different kind of authority, come into their midst. And there I think all these things are somewhere in their minds as their processing. Maybe they should be in ours as well. And so there's this portrait that's being painted here of the prophet saying there's gonna be. Restoration and this image of a seed being sown. And then of course you have these metaphors that Jesus is employing in his own time. Very reminiscent of passages like in Isaiah 55, where you find the prophet saying, for as the rain and the snow come down from heaven and do not return there, but water the earth, making it bring forth and sprout giving seed to the sower and bread to the eater. So shall my word be that goes out from my mouth. It shall not return empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose and I shall succeed in the thing for which I sent it. What an amazing, glorious promise of God that there is no suboptimal nature. In his expression of who he is and what he's accomplished, that the very thing that he intends to do, he always does, and this word comes back. I think what really strikes me about this passage in particular is the fact that it does not return to God empty. I mean, think about what that means. It's strange in a way. That. In other words, it's full of something. And here I think it's full of response. It's full of anticipation. It's full of this. Like what? What has gone out is now received by the individual and then returns with either acceptance or denial, very much in the same way that we're about to receive it in this parable before us. And in fact, even our ability to understand the parable. This if you have ears, he has ears. Let him hear that itself is an expression. So in other words. The power of this message is again, in the message itself, but the medium by which it is delivered, it does pierce the heart. It does pierce through bone and marrow. It does divide because it always returns full of either acceptance or full of rebellion and denial. And so when we think about the people of Israel. They exactly in that way. They return from exile under Ezra Nehemiah. But even those returns, even those improvements or some of that remediation seems to me like to come short of expectations. You know, Ezra rebuilt the temple, but it paled in comparison to Solomon's original, in fact. If we go to Ezra chapter three, there's like so much honesty as the people are seeing this rebuilt temple. Their response is, is like tragic in a way. So this is Ezra chapter three, beginning verse 12. But many of the priests and Levites and heads of fathers houses, old men. Who had seen the first house as the temple of God wept with a loud voice when they saw the foundation of this house being laid, though many shouted aloud for joy so that the people cannot distinguish the sound of the joyful from the sound of people's weeping for the people shouted with a great shout and the sound was heard far away, even in just the setting up the foundation, the base layer. There are those saying this is. This is not like it used to be. Even this is just far piles in comparison and falls very far short of the original. And of course you have Nehemiah's rebuilt wall around Jerusalem. Couldn't even ensure the holiness of God's people. And so everything up to that point. All of it was still just a shadow. It was like a big, giant disappointment, a blemish as it were, on God's people. Even as there was an attempt to restore, there was still this longing from the inside to have the real McCoy to everything made right to have the true Messiah come, not the one that was the type. Not the thing that was the shadow, not the the poor replacement or the analog, but the real thing. And so you have in response to this, you know, some of God's people move into the wilderness and pursue holy living. Some accommodated to Roman occupation like the Sadducees, some retreated into kind of individual individualistic piety or rule keeping like the Pharisees. And then there's all kinds of accounts of God's people in rebellion. Like Simon, the Zealots. There were some who even located themselves under the legitimate, yet Roman endorsed leadership of Herod, you know the Herodians. So you have all of these people you can imagine literally in the same audience. Jesus pushes back and he begins to teach them. And he starts by talking about horticulture. He starts by saying, A sower goes out and he throws all this kind of seed. And it's not difficult to imagine that all of the seed, all the soil, everything is represented in what he's saying right there. And then it's not a story as if like, well, you take this away and try to process it in such a way that you might come to terms with it later on. It's happening in the here and now. Even what he's saying. Even the message that he's communicating is being man made manifest right there in their midst, and it's not returning a void to him. The one who wrote it to begin with is the one who's speaking it, and it's having its desired effect, even as we read it now, and it reads us today. [00:15:13] Jesus' Ministry and the Kingdom of God And so it's amazing that it's on this stage that Jesus steps out and he stands, especially in the synagogue when he reads from the Isaiah scroll. And he announces that the true jubilee has now arrived and it's arrived in him. You know, by the way, what's interesting there is we have, we have no real reason to think that Israel ever really practiced Jubilee as it was outlined in the scriptures. So we have this beautiful instruction for a reset, a pure reset, and one that is liberty and...
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The Parable of the Sower: Understanding Why the Gospel Takes Root in Some Hearts But Not Others
09/26/2025
The Parable of the Sower: Understanding Why the Gospel Takes Root in Some Hearts But Not Others
In this insightful episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, hosts Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb begin their series on Jesus's parables by examining the Parable of the Sower (or Soils). This foundational teaching from Christ reveals why some hearts receive the gospel message while others reject it. The hosts unpack the four soil types Jesus describes, exploring what each represents spiritually and how these patterns continue to manifest today. They emphasize that while the parable reveals different responses to the gospel, it also provides comfort for believers engaged in evangelism, reminding us that outcomes ultimately depend not on the sower's skill but on the condition of the soil—a condition that only God can prepare. This episode offers both theological depth and practical encouragement for Christians seeking to understand the various responses to the gospel message in their own ministry contexts. Key Takeaways The Parable of the Sower serves as a hermeneutical key for understanding all of Jesus's parables, as it directly addresses why Jesus taught in parables and provides the interpretive framework for understanding their purpose. The parable reveals four types of responses to the gospel (represented by the four soils), but only one that leads to genuine salvation and fruit-bearing. The focus of the parable is not on the sower's skill or the seed's quality but on the condition of the soil—emphasizing God's sovereignty in salvation while encouraging continued evangelism. The "rocky ground" hearers represent those who initially receive the gospel with joy but have no root system to sustain them when trials come, often resulting in what we might call "deconstruction" today. Christians should expect varied responses to gospel proclamation and not be discouraged when the seed appears to be wasted on unresponsive hearts, as this pattern was predicted by Jesus himself. The parable provides a warning against shallow faith while encouraging believers to develop deep spiritual roots that can withstand persecution and trials. Genuine conversion is ultimately evidenced by fruit-bearing, not merely by initial enthusiasm or religious affiliation. Understanding the Soils The Parable of the Sower presents four distinct soil types, each representing different responses to the gospel message. The first soil—the path—represents hearts where the gospel makes no impact whatsoever; the seed simply bounces off and is quickly snatched away by Satan. This illustrates not merely outward rejection of the gospel, but also intellectual non-comprehension. As Tony explains, this doesn't necessarily mean active hostility toward the gospel but could simply be indifference: "It may not be someone who has like a closed fist, 'I hate the gospel, I hate everything about God,' but for some reason they're just not [interested]." This parallels Paul's teaching in 1 Corinthians 2:14 that "the natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him." The rocky soil represents those who initially receive the gospel with enthusiasm but lack depth. Their faith appears genuine at first but quickly withers under pressure or persecution. This phenomenon is particularly evident in what we often call "deconstruction" today—where someone who appeared genuinely converted falls away when their faith is tested. As Jesse notes, "I think what I've been helpful for me is to get outta my mind...what's the length of time here? Is it possible that somebody could be in this place...which presents like a setting down of deep roots that could last like years on end?" The parable reminds us that immediate joy at receiving the gospel is not necessarily evidence of saving faith, and it calls us to examine whether our own faith has sufficient depth to withstand trials. The Comfort of Realistic Expectations One of the most encouraging aspects of this parable is how it calibrates our expectations about evangelism and gospel ministry. Jesus teaches that when the gospel is proclaimed, we should expect varied responses—including outright rejection—not because of any failure in the message or messenger, but because of the condition of human hearts. This provides tremendous comfort for believers engaged in evangelistic efforts who might otherwise be discouraged by apparent failure. Tony highlights this point: "This parable is not about the skill of the sower or even the efficacy of the seed...The point of the parable...is that it has to do with the soil itself." This understanding frees us from the pressure of thinking we must somehow perfect our evangelistic technique or presentation, while also removing the false guilt that can come when people reject the message we share. Furthermore, the parable encourages continued, generous sowing of the gospel seed. As Tony observes, "We don't see the sower in this parable meticulously only identifying the good soil and only planting the seeds there. He does promiscuously spread this seed everywhere that he can." This reminds us that our responsibility is faithful proclamation, while the results remain in God's sovereign hands. Memorable Quotes "The Parable of the Sower teaches really that the gospel call goes out to all... but only those who God regenerates, that good soil, are gonna receive it savingly and will bear fruit." - Jesse Schwamb "Just because our experience of Christianity and our experience of being in the faith feels so genuine and real and rooted, we should also recognize that it felt real and genuine and rooted for [those who later fell away]... There's a caution there for us." - Tony Arsenal "The exhortation built into this is that we need to seek that root. We don't get to determine what kind of soil we are on an ultimate level—that's God's election and his secret providence. But on a horizontal level, in our experience of things, we have agency, we make decisions. We seek to be rooted or unrooted in the gospel." - Tony Arsenal Full Transcript [00:00:36] Introduction and Greetings Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 462 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I am Jesse. Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast of Good Soil. Hey brother. Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. Well, will you look at us? Look at us. It's finally and officially begun. And that is this conversation. [00:01:00] Kickoff to the Parable Series Jesse Schwamb: This episode is really the kickoff, well, the first parable that we're going through together, starting a long conversation that I think is gonna bear much fruit, if you will. Yes. Maybe 30, maybe 60, maybe a hundred times. Lord willing. It's gonna be great. And we're starting off with a doozy. Yes. Actually, maybe this is like the granddaddy of all the parables because we're gonna hear Jesus tell us something about the word of God and how it's received among different hearers. And this is so fantastic. It's the only place to begin because this is truly some eternally contemporary words. Yeah, it's, this is the parable that's continually verified under our own eyes. Wherever the word of God is preached or expounded and people are assembled to hear it, the sayings of our Lord in this parable are found to be true. It describes what goes on as a general rule in our congregations in the world. Anytime the word of God goes out, what a place to begin. So we're gonna get there. It's gonna be great, don't you worry, dear listener. [00:02:04] Affirmations and Denials Jesse Schwamb: But of course, before we do that, it's our tradition, our word that's spoken is always something in affirmation with something or in denial against something. So I say to you, as I always do, Tony. What do you have for us on this episode? Uh, an affirmation or denial. Tony Arsenal: This is an affirmation. I'll try to keep it nice and short and tight. Uh, I am affirming everything that comes with the fall. It's the air's getting crisp. The season, the, the pumpkin. Yeah. Not, not the fall. With the, let's, let's, let's clarify. I'm affirming everything that comes with autumn. So, uh, the air's crisp, the pumpkin spice is flowing, the leaves are starting to come down. Although, as a New Englander, I feel like I might be a little disappointed this year they're saying that it might not be as vibrant because we've been under a bit of a drought. But, uh, I, I'm all for all of it. Sweaters, gimme like a nice cozy scarf to put on and like a, I don't know, like a stocking cap. Gimme some flannel. I'm just ready to rock and roll. I'm, I'm, I'm done with summer and I'm ready for fall and yeah, that's, that's the whole thing. That's the affirmation. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. [00:03:09] Autumnal Delights and Debates Jesse Schwamb: Beautiful. It's speaking of like eternally or seasonally contemporary. That is so good. Plus I would say like the fall or autumn. The best adjectives, doesn't it? Yes. Like including like the word ottum. Yes. Like, that's just a great word that we, we do not use enough of. So this season, loved ones dropping a tum in there because Yes. It's just such a good word. Tony Arsenal: And I, I know people hate on the pumpkin spice and uh, there was a rev, I think I've said this before, it's re revolutionized my understanding because I used to get so mad because I was like, this doesn't even taste like pumpkin. It's not pumpkin flavored items, it's pumpkin spiced. Flavored items. So it's the, the spice you would use in pumpkin pie is the spice that they're talking about. So people complain that you're just putting nutmeg in things. And to that, I say yes, that's the point. You just start adding nutmeg or pumpkin spice or cloves or all spice or whatever it might be. The point is we're using the same spices that you would use for making a pumpkin pie or some other sort of fall. Delicious fall. Pumpy squashy, goodness. Jesse Schwamb: You got that right. This is a classic case of don't hate the player. Hate the game. Tony Arsenal: It's true, it's true. And if you don't like it, if you don't like pumpkin spice, then just don't talk to me at all. I'm just kidding. Still get pumpkin spice. Like you can go to Starbucks and get the same, same coffee you always get. You don't have to get pumpkin spice, you don't have to drink pumpkin beer, you don't have to do any of that. The all the stuff is, all the normal stuff is still available. They don't tell you you can't have it. Nobody is opening your mouth and pouring it down your throat. So just calm down, order your normal drip coffee and move on with your life. Jesse Schwamb: Speaking of polarizing autumnal type things, I don't know if we've talked about probably, we have talked about this and I've just forgotten. Where do you land on the whole. Cotton, uh, sorry. Candy corn, not cotton candy, but candy corn. Tony Arsenal: I, I feel like we have talked about this and my perspectives may have changed over the years. I'm not a big fan of candy corn, but I will eat it until I vomit. If you put it in front, I think is the, is the consensus that if there's a bowl of it in front of me, the first thing that I will do is I will break off two little white tips of the ca uh, candy corn and stick them on my fangs and pretend to be vampire. Jesse Schwamb: Beautiful. Tony Arsenal: And then I will eat the remainder of the pound and a half of candy that's in front of me until I throw up. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. And I know there's some difference between like candy, corn and like the little pumpkin confectionary ones. Yeah. Some people prefer those over others. And then this is not even to talk about the whole debate between when it comes to Reese's Peanut butter cups and Oh yeah. The pumpkin variety of those and No, all that stuff. Tony Arsenal: No. Mm. Jesse Schwamb: No. To those? Tony Arsenal: No, to those. The, the shaped, the shaped, uh, Reese's Peanut butter objects, I suppose they're not cups at that point. Uh, they use a different kind of peanut butter. I dunno if you know that, but they use a different peanut butter. So they, they actually do taste different than the actual didn't know that says peanut butter cups. Um, it's either a different kind of peanut butter or a different kind of chocolate. But one of the primary substances, uh, not in the Aristotelian sense, uh, one of the primary substances is different. And so it does actually taste different. It's not as good. And then the balance between the chocolate and the peanut butter is off. It's, it's not good. I'm a, I'm a peanut butter cup. Uh, I like to say aficionado, but I think probably snob would be a better. A better term for it. Jesse Schwamb: Listen, you'll, you like what you like by the way, only on this podcast, only, I think among long-term listeners, would it be necessary to clarify that you do not mean substance in there was six alien sense. Tony Arsenal: That's true. That's, that's definitely true. Well, Jesse, that is where we are. Enough about my, uh, fall. Uh, food preferences. What are you affirming and or denying? Tonight, [00:07:02] Musical Recommendations Jesse Schwamb: I'm gonna also come along with you on it with the affirmation, and maybe while you're drinking that PSL or you're searching for that candy, corn, you might like, want something to put into your ears that isn't us, that's a little bit more melodic. And so I'm affirming with the, this time and age in which it is all about curation. That's often a lovely thing. I use Spotify for all of my music consumption, and they just fed me like a really interesting playlist that I would never have thought of as a category, but I've really been enjoying, it's called Math Rock. And I saw, and I thought I'm, I'm usually kinda like dubious of the Spotify playlist because like they're kind of out there for me generally. But I thought to myself, well, this is an interesting port man too. Like, I like math. I like rock, and the description was complex rhythms and mesmerizing loops. So I thought, I like complex rhythms. I like loops that continue and mesmerize, so the check it out for yourself. If you're looking for something that's like, it's enough to be interesting while you're working on something, but not too interesting. So that distracts you. This is apparently the jam. So yeah, it's like just really interesting rock oriented, mostly instrumental music that is like. Really motivating, but again, not interesting enough to really distract you from the task at hand if that's not your thing. The other thing I would recommend, I know you'll join me in this, Tony, is that poor Bishop Hooper released a new album this week. It's called The Serpent and the Seed, and this one has a ton of tracks on it, like 18 or so, and it, it as well is a unique mix of both instrumental, really lovely, beautiful pieces and then some that carry more vocal and melodic stuff that's kind of their customary jam. Both of 'em are great. They both do have kind of an an autumnal vibe, if I'm honest. Now I'm thinking about it. It's really the perfect compliment to whatever it is that you're consuming that has that pumpkin spice in it. So math, rock, the serpent and the seed. There you go. Tony Arsenal: I'm trying to synthesize. I mean, math and rock are like two of Jesse's favorite things. So I'm trying to synthesize what it would be like to scream the quadratic equation at someone with some sort of like slightly off cadence, dissonant guitar rift underneath. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. Tony Arsenal: I feel like there's a Me Without You album out there somewhere that that's exactly what it is. But Jesse Schwamb: yeah, probably there should Tony Arsenal: be at least. Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, there, there absolutely should be. And I'm with you. I'm willing to work on that album. That's a great idea. Like just, it's just an album of mathematical equations and like the deep mysteries of life, you know, listen, math is beautiful. Numbers are stories. There's, there's so much there. Yeah. You had me at Quadratic, so I, I think we've, we've given people a lot to enjoy in this fall season. It's true. Tony Arsenal: I, I. I couldn't solve a quadratic equation to save my entire life at this point. Uh, I took introduction to logic when I got to college 'cause I couldn't remember how to multiply fractions on the entrance exam. That's fair. So that's fair. So that was, that's my experience with math. But right Jesse Schwamb: now the internet wants to keep serving me videos about, you've seen like all these tests, like these entrance exams for like Harvard or like the Ivy Leagues, other Ivy Leagues, and it is all these random things, you know, like we're solving for like two variables, terminally, and there is some kinda like expon explanation to it. Um. Yeah, I guess that's what I've become and I watch 'em all. They honestly get me every time. Yeah. I'm like, I'm not gonna watch that. And then I'm like, oh, I'm definitely gonna watch that. So it just happens. It's great. Tony Arsenal: I love it. Meanwhile, meanwhile, YouTube is desperately trying to get me to watch Season six and Cobra High. And it's very quickly gonna be succeeding. I think the next time Netflix has a, has a promotion where I can get a cheap month or something like that, I will definitely be binging Cobra Kai. So I feel like our YouTube algorithms are very different. Jesse Schwamb: Very different. Yeah. Very different. Certainly in, um, there is a commonality of, of the mysteries of the world and. [00:11:06] Introduction to the Parable of the Sower Jesse Schwamb: In some way, that's what we're talking about in this entire series. And yeah, if for some reason you didn't hear a conversation from two weeks ago where we really set the table, I think for what a parable is, why Jesus uses parables. As far as I remember, you correct if I'm wrong, it was the definitive conversation about why the parable is not just peace wise in Jesus' teaching, but really why it's the centerpiece. Yeah, we talked about that at great length. So now we're really ready to go. If you didn't hear that, I highly recommend you go back and hear that. 'cause there's so much. I realize as we, we looked at this parable of the sower or better like the parable of the soils, that we could do a whole series on just this bad boy. Such not just like wide interpretation, but wide application. So much for us to really chew on and then to really come back to and chew the could. So we're gonna have to be probably every time a little bit self-editing and brief. So if you're just yelling at your device, why aren't you talking about this thing? There's a great place for you to yell into or maybe just calmly and very politely suggest rather than the void, you can join our Telegram group. Telegram is just an app for, it's kind of a conversational tool and platform, and if you're looking for it and I know that you are, don't, why would you even fool yourself? It's, you can find it by going to T Me Reform Brotherhood. There's a whole channel, there's a bunch of channels there, a bunch of little conversations that we have compartmentalize. There's one just to talk about the episode. So as we go through this, my encouragement to everybody is track with us, get your scriptures out. Come along with us in the actual journey of processing this. Do spend some time processing it with us. And then when there is inevitably that thing, they're like, why didn't you talk about this? You know, a great place to converse with others and us about that would be in the Telegram Chat. So T Me Reform Brotherhood. So enough of that, let's get to it. Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know, there's, there's some, um, there's some logic that would say we should have just rather than doing an Introduction to Parables episode, we should have just done the parable, because this parable does really follow, it really does form like an introduction to all of Christ's parabolic teachings. And, you know, it's, no, it's no, um, mystery either in God's providence or just in Matthew as being a, a, you know,...
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Categories Matter: How Divine Council Theology Undermines Christian Orthodoxy
09/19/2025
Categories Matter: How Divine Council Theology Undermines Christian Orthodoxy
In this solo episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal tackles the concerning theological trend of "Divine Council Theology" and its recent resurgence within Reformed circles. He offers a critical analysis of Michael Heiser's influential work and its problematic popularization by Reformed figures like Doug Van Dorn and John Moffitt. Tony demonstrates how redefining the biblical term "Elohim" to include both God and created spiritual beings in the same ontological category fundamentally undermines the creator-creature distinction essential to Christian orthodoxy. Through careful examination of systematic theological categories, communicable and incommunicable attributes, and implications for Christology, he reveals why this seemingly academic redefinition poses serious threats to biblical monotheism and classical Reformed theology. Key Takeaways Divine Council Theology, popularized by Michael Heiser and now being promoted within Reformed circles, attempts to redefine "Elohim" as a functional category that includes both God and created spiritual beings. This theological trend commits an etymological fallacy by redefining the predominant usage of "Elohim" (which refers to the God of Israel in ~2,300 of 2,600 occurrences) based on minority usages. The approach dangerously blurs the fundamental creator-creature distinction that is essential to Christian monotheism and orthodox theology. Proponents incorrectly classify divine power as a communicable attribute rather than recognizing omnipotence as an incommunicable attribute that cannot be shared with creatures. The theological system makes problematic analogies to the incarnation, showing a confused understanding of the hypostatic union and potentially opening the door to Arian implications. This theology represents a concerning return to concepts the early church fathers fought against when confronting pagan Greek thought, rather than a retrieval of biblical teaching. Departing from the "pattern of sound words" handed down through church history in favor of novel interpretations should raise significant warning flags. Key Concepts The Creator-Creature Distinction The most fundamental division in Christian theology is not between spiritual and material beings, but between the uncreated Creator and everything else that exists. Divine Council Theology dangerously undermines this distinction by placing God and created spiritual beings in the same category of "Elohim." While proponents acknowledge God as the uncreated Creator, they nevertheless insist on categorizing Him alongside angels, demons, and other spiritual entities based on shared attributes of power or function. This categorization system parallels pagan worldviews more than biblical theology, where God exists in a class of one. By defining "Elohim" as a functional category related to spiritual power rather than an ontological one, this approach inadvertently returns to a hierarchical view of spiritual beings with God merely at the "top of the totem pole" rather than in an entirely separate and unique category of existence. This framework subtly but significantly undermines biblical monotheism by suggesting God shares a fundamental nature with His creatures. Communicable vs. Incommunicable Attributes Divine Council Theology mishandles the traditional theological distinction between God's communicable and incommunicable attributes. In classical Reformed theology, communicable attributes (like love or wisdom) can be shared with creatures in a limited, analogical way, while incommunicable attributes (like omnipotence, eternality, or divine simplicity) belong exclusively to God and cannot be shared without making the creature into God. Proponents of Divine Council Theology erroneously suggest that the power denoted by "Elohim" is a communicable attribute that God shares with spiritual beings, rather than recognizing omnipotence as properly incommunicable. This misclassification creates theological incoherence: if God could truly share His omnipotence with creatures, those creatures would effectively become equal to God in power, creating the logical impossibility of multiple omnipotent beings. This confusion of categories demonstrates how this theological system fails to maintain proper distinctions that are essential for preserving the uniqueness and transcendence of God in Christian theology. Memorable Quotes "Christianity and biblical Judaism—the primary distinction is not between spiritual and matter... The primary distinction when we're talking about the most absolute line is the distinction between the uncreated creator and his creation." "Rather than rely on the safe time-tested words and concepts that have been proven and validated, and attacked and defended and have been victorious for hundreds and thousands of years... Moffitt and Van Dorn think it is smarter and safer to depart from the pattern of sound words rather than to keep the pattern of sound words because they think that they are able to look at the Bible the way basically no one ever has in the 2000 years of the church and find something they haven't." "These teachings are pagan. This is talking about returning to a world populated by spiritual beings, and God is kind of just on the highest part of the totem pole... We're just returning to something that the early church fought hard to get rid of when they came out of their pagan culture." Resources Mentioned Full Transcript [00:00:24] Introduction and Episode Setup Tony Arsenal: Welcome to episode 461 of the Reformed Brotherhood. I am Tony, and today it's just me. Hey, brothers and sisters. We had a little bit of a scheduling conflict this week, so Jesse is taking the week off and uh, it gives me an opportunity to talk about something that I've been doing a little bit of research on. [00:00:47] Affirmations and Denials Tony Arsenal: Hopefully the listener has noticed that Jesse and I have been trying to keep our affirmations and denials a little bit tighter so we can get into the meat of the episode a little bit quicker. But occasionally we do run into a denial, usually a denial, but we run into a denial that, uh, we often say this could be an episode of its own. And so today is one of those episodes. So I'm not gonna give you my normal affirmation or denial. I'm just gonna jump into it. Now this is gonna be a little bit off the cuff. I've been doing some research, so I may not have as much of the receipts as the kids say, um, as I normally would. But I am writing a series of articles on this issue over@reformedarsenal.com. I'll make sure to put the link to the first article in the show notes. All of the receipts are there, all of the timestamps for the podcast episodes that I'll be. Discussing your critiquing. Are there citations for research work that I'm doing? All that stuff is there. So if you're interested in digging into the meet and you're the kind of guy who, or girl who likes to nerd out in the footnotes, then head over to uh reformed arsenal.com. You'll find the series pretty quick. [00:01:56] Introduction to Divine Counsel Theology Tony Arsenal: What I wanted to talk about today, and I'm glad we have kind of a whole episode, uh, to talk about it, is a movement, uh, that has some foothold in reformed theology. Uh, it's not new, uh, it didn't start in reformed theology, but for some reason, uh, those who are within our orbits tend to be a little bit enamored by this kind of theology. I'm not exactly sure why. [00:02:19] Michael Heiser's Influence Tony Arsenal: This theology is often called Divine Counsel Theology, and it was really, um, you know, it's not entirely new even with, with this figure, but it was really made popular and sort of, um, spread about and made accessible by the late Michael Heiser. Um, part of this is because he was just a very winsome, uh, guy. He took. Sort of highfalutin academic concepts and was able to bring them down to, uh, to an understandable level, including things like ancient near Eastern context, biblical, you know, ex of Jesus Hebrew language, other ancient near Eastern languages, which of course, that's that kind of stuff is what this podcast is all about, taking difficult, sometimes technical concepts. Talking about them, translating them into kind of the language that everybody else speaks. So that project was fine. The issue is the direction that he goes with a lot of the theology. So Michael Heiser writes a book called Unseen Realms, which is seen as kind of a retrieval of the supernatural mindset and worldview of the Bible. Uh, there's a lot to be commended about that, uh, enterprise, about that intention. I do agree with part of what he has to say when he says that we've lost a lot of the supernatural context of the Bible. Um, but I think where he goes with it is a direction that we really ought not go and we'll dig into it. [00:03:43] Critique of Reformed Fringe Podcast Tony Arsenal: The reason this is coming up now is because recently there's been a series of articles and podcasts put out by a show called The Reformed Fringe. Uh, some if you're in the Telegram chat, which you can join at, uh, t Me slash Reformed Brotherhood. You've already seen some of this stuff. We've already talked about it a little bit. But the Reformed Fringe is a podcast that sort of tries to fill a space that's something like Haunted Cosmos, which we've talked about before. Um, fills sort of looking at the weird fringe kind of things in the world. Ghosts, paranormal activity, trying to explain it through a biblical, uh, lens or worldview. Again, that's a commendable. Effort. There are strange things that happen in our world that are not easily explainable or at all explainable by natural, uh, naturalistic means. And so coming to those things with the Bible as our, uh, rubric to instruct us on how the world works is a commendable thing. But again, this project, which is by and large, um, and we'll get into maybe, but by and large is just an extension of, um, Heiser's project really goes in directions that cause all sorts of problems down the road. So the podcast is, uh, run by a guy named Doug Van Dorn, who most of the audience probably hasn't heard of. I have had run-ins with Doug over the years. Um, the last time I ran into him actually was revolving around similar kinds of issues that I'm gonna be calling out today. Um, and it, it ended up with him kind of having to depart from the reform pub, uh, maybe to put it a little bit politely and, um. You know, he has, he has taken, he's theology, which was not explicitly reformed. Heiser was not a reformed guy. He had no claims to be a Calvinist in many ways. Uh, he was sort of anticon confessional in, in that he opposed not the idea of a faith statement, but he sort of purported to come to the Bible with no biases, with no tradition. He wanted to approach what he called the Naked Bible. That was actually the name of his podcast before he died a few years ago. And so what Doug Van Dorn is, has done who, uh, Doug is a claims to be a 1689 Reformed Baptist. He's a pastor in Colorado, I believe. Um, he has tried to take this divine counsel theology and bring it into the reformed world. So he comes at it with a, a slightly different angle, but for the most part, his conclusions are the same. And in many cases he just straight up steals ER's work and doesn't cite it, doesn't do much to, uh, articulate that this is not his original research. Um, so he's taken that and he's trying to bring it into the reformed world. And Heiser himself was actually quite influential when I was a, an admin in the reform pub. We would run into lots of, lots of young reformed guys. Who were really enamored with this and they really saw, he's project as sort of a return to a pure form of exo Jesus that really got at what the Hebrew was saying. And it tickled, I think, kind of an intellectual, uh, an intellectual itch that a lot of those guys had combined with sort of this desire for the new and novel, um, which is in itself can be pretty dangerous. To sort of make things a little bit more pressing, Heiser has teamed up with John Moffitt, who many of our listeners may know. Uh, he's one of the co-hosts and founders of the podcast, Theo Cast, uh, which otherwise is a perfectly fine podcast. Um, he's also a 1680 or claims to be a 1689 Reform Baptist. He's a pastor. Um, their podcast is sort of what you would get if you had, uh, and I don't mean this to be pejorative, although maybe it is a little pejorative. Theo cast is what you would get if you took r Scott Clark. Uh, you made it much less intellectual and careful, and then made it Baptist. And what I mean by that is Scott's whole project. In large part is to recover and to emphasize the law gospel distinction. Theo cast has taken that and sort of cranked it up to 11. Uh, and they have um, they have sort of moved away from a lot of the classical reform distinctions of the law itself, so they don't full on deny the third use of the law. But in practice they would say that, um, good works is no kind of evidence whatsoever for your, um, for your faith. It's no kind of evidence of your, your salvation, which of course are confessions themselves. Um, say that there is a kind of evidential value to assessing our good works within certain reason and con. So the show is otherwise orthodox. You know, I I, I recall hearing episodes where they were refuting things like EFS, um, but because of that, Moffitt brings with him sort of an air of credibility and an error in orthodoxy that, um, the show itself probably hasn't merited. If Doug just recorded, pushed, play and put it on the. I don't think there would've been too much, uh, too much of a following. He would've probably, you know, grabbed a couple people who heard it and thought it was interesting. But because Moffitt has such a following on Theo cast, he brings with him a large audience, and that makes it particularly dangerous because his name attached to it makes it more widespread. It makes it feel like it's safer. And so I think a lot of people, uh, assume that what he's saying is orthodox and good. And I think what we'll find out is, is that it's not. So I think that's enough ProGo. [00:09:10] Elohim and Its Implications Tony Arsenal: I'm gonna go ahead and, and jump into explaining kind of what the theology that we're talking about is and, and what the problems are. So this all started kicked off, uh, with a series of podcast episodes and the first episode, and again, I don't have the specific titles here. I'll put a bibliography in the show notes on this one just so you have links to all the relevant episodes. Um, this all kind of kicked off with a podcast episode called something like The History of the Word God, or something like that. And, um, basically what Moffitt and Van Dorn want to do is they wanna look at the word Elohim in the Bible, which of course is a plural noun. Uh, in Hebrew, the, the suffix, just like in English, we might add an S or an ES, um, to a word to make it plural. Or in Greek, it's usually, if it's a masculine, uh, noun, it's, it's an oi or an omicron iota that sort of always sound at the end. Um, or when we, we talk about Latin, you have, you have like, um, you add the I at the end, so we say octopi instead of octopuses or something like that. Cacti instead of cactus. Although both of those are kind of pig Latins, um, in, in Hebrew for, uh, for masculine nouns. The suffix that you add to make it plural, is that eam sound. It's a, it's an Im if you transliterate in English. So the word Elohim is a plural of the original noun El which is a proper name for a eury deity. But it came to just be the singular word for, for God. Um, and, and in non-biblical language, we would say in a God. Um, and we do see in English, there are in, in Hebrew, in the Bible, there are places where we see the singular of this. It's kind of an older form, so it doesn't show up as much. Um, but by and large when we see the word Elohim in the Bible. Something like, uh, outta 2,600 references or more than 2,600 references in the Bible. Um, the word Elohim is associated with a single, a singular noun, and it only refers to the God of Israel. What Moffitt and Van Dorn want to do is they want to take this word and they wanna define it based on the abnormal. Uh, use of it. So the vast minority, minority of cases in the Old Testament, the word Elohim refers to the gods or to a non, like what we might say is lower G God, either like the God, Baal, or some sort of collective reference to the gods, the gods of the nation, or something like that. They wanna take the fact that there is this variation in the way the word is used and sort of radically redefine how the Bible uses it. And this, this is what I call and what a lot of people would call an etymological fallacy. So what they're doing is, instead of, uh, looking at the word and defining it based on how it's used in an, in an overwhelming fashion, they're looking at sort of the etymology of the word. And then they're using the fact that there are, uh, some pretty Dr. Dramatically minority cases where the word is used in a different way and they wanna redefine it and say, in, in all or most cases in the Bible actually. This is what the word means. So they look at the word L, which from its root has something to do probably with the, with the word for power or something like that. Um, they wanna look at it. And, you know, if you read someone like Vos in Reformed dogmatics in his volume one, he talks about how when we see the name Elohim for God, it denotes or, or refers to his sort of power, his omnipotence, which is all good and fine, just like we would say Yahweh. Uh, as a proper name refers to God sort of in his covenant role. It's his covenant name, his, his intimate, familial name that he shares, uh, with his people or he reveals to his people. Elohim is a more abstract name and it refers to God's power. Usually we see it in relation to his cre creation. So in Genesis one, um, when it's God created, it's Elohim created, which is also important and relevant for, for later. So what they wanna do is they want to say that Elohim actually. What Act Elohim actually means is it's a reference to a class of beings, spiritual beings, and that that it means sort of any spiritual being that has some type of supernatural power or enhanced power, some sort of spiritual power. They do this by saying that the noun is not an ontological noun, it's actually like a noun of function. Um, so like we would say a, a good example in English would be a painter that's a noun of function. It's a title of function. It any person could be called a painter if they engage in the verbal action of painting. And so what they're saying is that any being that engages in the action of having power. Is, uh, is an Elohim. And so that would include, in narrating at least, it would include angels, demons. Uh, I, you know, I don't know that they've said this explicitly, but I, I think Heiser would've included things like ghosts, disembodied spirits, um, humans in sort of the intermediary state might be considered Elohim humans in the, in the, um, this. Life are called Elohim, uh, in some instances. So, so this is where the Divine Council theology comes from, and that comes from Psalm 82, I think, where there's this council of Elohim that, that Yahweh seems to be speaking to and deliberating with. Or you look at Joe, where the sons of God come and they sort of pulled court in God's heavenly presence. So he would say those are examples where the, the collected Elohim. God being one of the Elohim are somehow gathered in this heavenly divine counsel. Now what this does is just devastating to Christian theology is it takes God who exists in a class of one. The, the, the God of the universe is, is the only uncreated entity in all of of the world. And so when we start to talk, and this is ironic, when we start to talk about...
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Blessed Eyes That See: How Parables Transform Our Understanding of God's Kingdom
09/12/2025
Blessed Eyes That See: How Parables Transform Our Understanding of God's Kingdom
In this introductory episode to their new series on the Parables of Jesus, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb explore the profound theological significance of Christ's parables. Far from being mere teaching tools to simplify complex ideas, parables serve a dual purpose in God's redemptive plan: revealing spiritual truth to those with "ears to hear" while concealing these same truths from those without spiritual illumination. This episode lays the groundwork for understanding how parables function as divine teaching devices that embody core Reformed doctrines like election and illumination. As the hosts prepare to journey through all the parables in the Gospels, they invite listeners to consider the blessing of being granted spiritual understanding and the privilege of receiving the "secrets of the kingdom" through Christ's distinctive teaching method. Key Takeaways Parables are more than illustrations—they are comparisons that reveal kingdom truths to those with spiritual ears to hear while concealing truth from those without spiritual illumination. Jesus intentionally taught in parables not to simplify his teaching but partly to fulfill Isaiah's prophecy about those who hear but do not understand, confirming the spiritual condition of his hearers. The ability to understand parables is itself evidence of God's sovereign grace and election, as Jesus states in Matthew 13:16: "Blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear." Parables vary in form and function—some are clearly allegorical while others make a single point, requiring each to be approached on its own terms. Proper interpretation requires context—understanding both the original audience and the question or situation that prompted Jesus to use a particular parable. Parables function like Nathan's confrontation of David—they draw hearers in through narrative before revealing uncomfortable truths about themselves. Studying parables requires spiritual humility—recognizing that our understanding comes not from intellectual capacity but from the Spirit's illumination. Understanding Parables as Revelation, Not Just Illustration The hosts emphasize that parables are fundamentally different from mere illustrations or fables. While modern readers often assume Jesus used parables to simplify complex spiritual truths, the opposite is frequently true. As Tony explains, "A parable fundamentally is a comparison between two things... The word parable comes from the Greek of casting alongside." This distinction is crucial because it changes how we approach interpretation. Rather than breaking down each element as an allegorical component, we should first understand what reality Jesus is comparing the parable to. The parables function as a form of divine revelation—showing us kingdom realities through narrative comparison, but only those with spiritual insight can truly grasp their meaning. This is why Jesus quotes Isaiah and explains that he speaks in parables partly because "seeing they do not see and hearing they do not hear nor do they understand" (Matthew 13:13). The Doctrine of Election Embedded in Parabolic Teaching Perhaps the most profound insight from this episode is how the very form of Jesus' teaching—not just its content—embodies the doctrine of election. Jesse notes that "every parable then implicitly teaches a doctrine of election," because they reveal spiritual truth to some while concealing it from others. This isn't arbitrary but reflects spiritual realities. The hosts connect this to Jesus' words in Matthew 13:16: "Blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear." This blessing comes not from intellectual capacity or moral superiority but from God's sovereign grace. Tony describes this as "the blessing in our salvation and in our election that we are enabled to hear and perceive and receive the very voice and word of God into our spirit unto our salvation." The parables thus become a "microcosm" of Reformed doctrines like election, regeneration, and illumination. When believers understand Jesus' parables, they're experiencing the practical outworking of these doctrines in real time. Memorable Quotes "The parables are not just to illustrate a point, they're to reveal a spiritual point or spiritual points to those who have ears to hear, to those who've been illuminated by the spirit." - Tony Arsenal "Jesus is giving this message essentially to all who will listen to him... And so this is like, I love the way that he uses that quote in a slightly different way, but still to express the same root cause, which is some of you here because of your depravity will not be able to hear what I'm saying. But for those to whom it has been granted to come in who are ushered into the kingdom, this kingdom language will make sense." - Jesse Schwamb "But blessed are your eyes for they see and your ears for they hear. There's a blessing in our salvation and in our election that we are enabled to hear and perceive and receive the very voice and word of God into our spirit unto our salvation." - Tony Arsenal About the Hosts Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb are the regular hosts of The Reformed Brotherhood podcast, where they explore Reformed theology and its application to Christian living. With a conversational style that balances depth and accessibility, they seek to make complex theological concepts understandable without sacrificing nuance or biblical fidelity. Transcript [00:00:45] Introduction and New Series Announcement [00:00:45] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 460 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. [00:00:54] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast with ears to hear. Hey brother. [00:00:59] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. New series Time, new series. Time for the next seven years that, that's probably correct. It's gonna be a long one. New beginnings are so great, aren't they? And it is. [00:01:10] Jesse Schwamb: We've been hopefully this, well, it's definitely gonna live up to all the hype that we've been presenting about this. It's gonna be good. Everybody's gonna love it. And like I said, it's a topic we haven't done before. It's certainly not in this format. [00:01:23] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And you know what, just, um, as a side note, if you are a listener, which you must be, if you're hearing this, uh, this is a great time to introduce someone to the podcast. [00:01:33] Tony Arsenal: True. Uh, one, because this series is gonna be lit as the kids say, and, uh, it's a new series, so you don't have to have any background. You don't have to have any previous knowledge of the show or of who these two weird guys are to jump in and we're gonna. [00:01:53] Tony Arsenal: Talk about the Bible, which is amazing and awesome. And who doesn't love to talk about the Bible. [00:01:58] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's correct. That's what makes these so good. That's how I know, and I could say confidently that this is gonna be all the hype and more. All right, so before we get to affirmations and denials, all the good ProGo, that's part and parcel of our normal episode content. [00:02:12] Jesse Schwamb: Do you want to tell everybody what we're gonna be talking about? [00:02:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I'm excited. [00:02:17] Introducing the Parables Series [00:02:17] Tony Arsenal: So we are gonna work our way through, and this is why I say it's gonna take seven years. We are gonna work our way through all of the parables. Parables, [00:02:25] Jesse Schwamb: the [00:02:25] Tony Arsenal: gospels and just so, um, the Gospel of John doesn't feel left out. [00:02:30] Tony Arsenal: We're gonna talk through some of the I am statements and some of that stuff when we get to John. 'cause John doesn't have a lot of parables. Uh, so we're gonna spend time in the synoptic gospels. We're gonna just walk through the parables one by one. We're taking an episode, sometimes maybe two, sometimes 10, depending on how long the parable is and how deep we get into it. [00:02:47] Tony Arsenal: We're just gonna work our way through. We're gonna take our time. We're gonna enjoy it. So again, this is a great time to start. It's kinda the ground floor on this and you thing. This could really be its own podcast all by itself, right? Uh, so invite a friend, invite some whole bunch of friends. Start a Sunday school class listening to this. [00:03:04] Tony Arsenal: No, don't do that. But people have done that before. But, uh, grab your bibles, get a decent commentary to help prep for the next episode, and, uh, let's, let's do it. I'm super excited. [00:03:14] Jesse Schwamb: When I say para, you say Abel Para, is that how it works? Para? Yeah. I don't know. You can't really divide it. Pairable. If you jam it together, yes. [00:03:24] Jesse Schwamb: You get some of that. You can say, when I say pair, you say Abel p [00:03:27] Tony Arsenal: Abel. [00:03:31] Jesse Schwamb: And you can expect a lot more of that in this series. But before we get into all this good juicy stuff about parables, and by the way, this is like an introductory episode, that doesn't mean that you can just skip it, doesn't mean it's not gonna be good. We gotta set some things up. We wanna talk about parables general generally, but before we have that good general conversation, let's get into our own tradition, which is either affirming with something or denying against something. [00:03:54] Affirmations and Denials [00:03:54] Jesse Schwamb: And so, Tony, what do you got for all of us? [00:03:58] Tony Arsenal: Mine is kind of a, an ecclesial, ecclesiastical denial. Mm-hmm. Um, this is sort of niche, but I feel like our audience may have heard about it. And there's this dust up that I, I noticed online, uh, really just this last week. Um, it's kind of a specific thing. There is a church, uh, I'm not sure where the church is. [00:04:18] Tony Arsenal: It's a PCA church, I believe it's called Mosaic. The pastor of the church, the teaching elder, one of the teaching elders just announced that he was, uh, leaving his ministry to, uh, join the Roman Catholic Church, which, yes, there's its own denial built into that. We are good old Protestant reformed folks, and I personally would, would stick with the original Westminster on the, the Pope being antichrist. [00:04:45] Tony Arsenal: But, um, that's not the denial. The denial is that in this particular church. For some unknown reason. Uh, the pastor who has now since a announced that he was leaving to, uh, to convert to Roman Catholicism, continued to preach the sermon and then administered the Lord's supper, even though he in the eyes, I think of most. [00:05:08] Tony Arsenal: Reformed folk and certainly historically in the eyes of the reformed position was basically apostate, uh, right in front of the congregation's eyes. Now, I don't know that I would necessarily put it that strongly. I think there are plenty of genuine born again Christians who find themselves in, in the Roman Catholic, uh, church. [00:05:27] Tony Arsenal: Uh, but to allow someone who is one resigning the ministry right in front of your eyes. Um, and then resigning to basically leave for another tradition that, that the PCA would not recognize, would not share ecclesiastical, uh, credentials with or accept their ordination or any of those things. Um, to then just allow him to admit, you know, to administer the Lord's Supper, I think is just a drastic miscarriage of, uh, ecclesiastical justice. [00:05:54] Tony Arsenal: I dunno if that's the right word. So I'm just denying this like. It shows that on a couple things like this, this. Church this session, who obviously knew this was coming. Um, this session does either, does not take seriously the differences between Roman Catholic theology and Protestant theology, particularly reformed theology, or they don't take seriously the, the gravity of the Lord's supper and who should and shouldn't be administering it. [00:06:22] Tony Arsenal: They can't take both of those things seriously and have a fully or biblical position on it. So there's a good opportunity for us to think through our ecclesiology, to think through our sacrament and how this applies. It just really doesn't sit well and it's not sitting well with a lot of people online, obviously. [00:06:37] Tony Arsenal: Um, and I'm sure there'll be all sorts of, like letters of concern sent to presbytery and, and all that stuff, and, and it'll all shake out in the wash eventually, but just, it just wasn't good. Just doesn't sit right. [00:06:48] Jesse Schwamb: You know, it strikes me of all the denominations. I'm not saying this pejoratively. I just think it is kind of interesting and funny to me that the Presbyterians love a letter writing campaign. [00:06:56] Jesse Schwamb: Like that's kind of the jam, the love, a good letter writing campaign. [00:07:00] Tony Arsenal: It's true, although it's, it's actually functional in Presbyterianism because That's right. That's how you voice your concern. It's not a, not a, a rage letter into the void. It actually goes somewhere and gets recorded and has to be addressed at presbytery if you have standing. [00:07:17] Tony Arsenal: So there's, there's a good reason to do that, and I'm sure that that will be done. I'm sure there are many. Probably ministers in the PCA who are aware of this, who are either actually considering filing charges or um, or writing such letters of complaints. And there's all sorts of mechanisms in the PCA to, to adjudicate and resolve and to investigate these kinds of things. [00:07:37] Jesse Schwamb: And I'd like to, if you're, if you're a true Presbyterian and, and in this instance, I'm not making light of this instance, but this instance are others, you. Feel compelled by a strong conviction to write such a letter that really you should do it with a quill, an ink. Like that's the ultimate way. I think handwritten with like a nice fountain pen. [00:07:54] Jesse Schwamb: There's not, yeah. I mean, you know what I'm saying? Like that's, that is a weighty letter right there. Like it's cut to Paul being like, I write this postscript in my own hand with these big letters. Yeah, it's like, you know, some original Presbyterian letter writing right there. [00:08:07] Tony Arsenal: And then you gotta seal it with wax with your signe ring. [00:08:10] Tony Arsenal: So, and send it by a carrier, by a messenger series of me messengers. [00:08:14] Jesse Schwamb: Think if you receive any letter in the mail, handwritten to you. Like for real, somebody painstakingly going through in script like spencerian script, you know, if you're using English characters writing up and then sealing that bad boy with wax, you're gonna be like, this is important. [00:08:30] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, this, even if it's just like, Hey, what's up? Yeah, you're gonna be like, look at this incredible, weighty document I've received. [00:08:36] Tony Arsenal: It's true. It's very true. I love it. Well, that's all I have to say about that to channel a little Forrest Gump there. Uh, Jesse, what are you affirming or denying tonight? [00:08:44] Jesse Schwamb: I'm also going to deny against, so this denial is like classic. [00:08:49] Jesse Schwamb: It's routine, but I got a different spin on it this time, so I'm denying against. The full corruption of sin, how it appears everywhere, how even unbelievers speak of it, almost unwittingly, but very commonly with great acceptance. And the particularity of this denial comes in the form of allergies, which you and I are talking about a lot of times. [00:09:09] Jesse Schwamb: But I was just thinking about this week because I had to do some allergy testing, which is a, a super fun experience. But it just got me think again, like very plainly about what allergies are. And how an allergy occurs when your immune system, like the part of your body responsible for protecting your body that God has made when your immune system mistakes like a non-harmful substance like pollen or a food or some kind of animal dander for a threat, and then reacts by producing these antibodies like primarily the immunoglobulin E. [00:09:36] Jesse Schwamb: So here's what strikes me as so funny about this in a, in a way that we must laugh. Because of our, our parents, our first parents who made a horrible decision and we like them, would make the same decision every day and twice in the Lord's day. And that is that this seems like, of course, such a clear sign of the corruption of sin impounded in our created order because it seems a really distasteful and suboptimal for human beings to have this kind of response to pollen. [00:10:03] Jesse Schwamb: When they were intended to work and care in a garden. So obviously I think we can say, Hey, like the fact that allergies exist and that it's your body making a mistake. [00:10:13] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. [00:10:13] Jesse Schwamb: It's like the ultimate, like cellular level of the ubiquity of sin. And so as I was speaking with my doctor and going through the, the testing, it's just so funny how like we all talk about this. [00:10:25] Jesse Schwamb: It's like, yeah, it's, it's a really over-indexed reaction. It doesn't make any sense. It's not the way the world is supposed to be, but nobody's saying how is the world supposed to be? Do you know what I mean? Like, but we just take it for granted that that kind of inflammation that comes from like your dog or like these particles in the air of plants, just trying to do a plant stew and reproduce and pollinate that, that could cause like really dramatic and debilitating. [00:10:49] Jesse Schwamb: Responses is just exceptional to me, and I think it's exceptional and exceptional to all of us because at some deep level we recognize that, as Paul says, like the earth, the entire world is groaning. It's groaning for that eschatological release and redemption that can only come from Christ. And our runny noses in our hay fever all prove that to some degree. [00:11:09] Jesse Schwamb: So denying against allergies, but denying against as well that ubiquity of corruption and sin in our world. [00:11:15] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I just have this image in my head of Adam and Eve, you know, they're expelled outta the garden and they, they're working the ground. And then Adam sneezes. Yes. And Eve is like, did your head just explode? [00:11:28] Tony Arsenal: And he's like, I don't know. That would've been a, probably a pretty terrifying experience actually. [00:11:33] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that's that's true. So imagine like you and I have talked about this before, because you have young children, adorable. Young children, and we've talked about like the first of everything, like when you're a child, you get sick for the first time, or you get the flu or you vomit for the first time. [00:11:45] Jesse Schwamb: Like you have no idea what's going on in your body, but imagine that. But being an adult. [00:11:49] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, where you can process what's going on, but don't have a framework for it. [00:11:52] Jesse Schwamb: Yes, exactly. So like [00:11:54] Tony Arsenal: that's like, that's like my worst nightmare I think. [00:11:55] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. It's like, to your point, 'cause there, there are a lot of experiences you have as an adults, even health wise that are still super strange and weird. [00:12:01] Jesse Schwamb: But [00:12:02] Tony Arsenal: yeah, [00:12:02] Jesse...
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Beyond the Paycheck: Finding God's Purpose in All Seasons of Labor
09/05/2025
Beyond the Paycheck: Finding God's Purpose in All Seasons of Labor
n this solo episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb dives into a theological exploration of work as an extension of Christian calling that extends far beyond paid employment. Building upon their previous discussion about vocational choices for Christians, Jesse addresses the question: "Does a Christian's work ever cease?" Through careful examination of Ephesians 2:8-10 and other passages, he argues that while the nature of our work may change through different seasons of life—including retirement, caregiving, or illness—God has prepared good works for believers to walk in throughout their entire earthly journey. The episode offers both theological foundations and practical guidance on how Christians can approach all forms of labor as worship, finding purpose and meaning in every season of life. Key Takeaways Good works are not the basis of salvation but its goal—Christians are saved by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8-9), not by works, yet they are saved for good works that God has prepared in advance (Ephesians 2:10). The Christian's work never ceases but changes form—Whether in paid employment, retirement, caregiving, or even during illness, God has prepared meaningful work for believers in every season of life. All work has spiritual value when done unto the Lord—The Reformed tradition elevates all forms of work, not just paid employment, as having potential to glorify God. Prayer is a significant and valuable form of work—Even those who cannot engage in physical labor can participate in the vital spiritual work of intercessory prayer. Good works offer multiple benefits to believers—According to the Westminster Confession, good works manifest gratitude to God, bolster assurance of faith, encourage other Christians, adorn Christian doctrine, silence critics, and glorify God. Christian workers should be distinctively different—Believers can stand out in the workplace by being fair and committed, genuinely caring for others, demonstrating generosity, remaining calm under pressure, and being authentic about their faith. Finding our identity in Christ transforms our approach to work—When we place our ultimate treasure in heaven rather than earthly gain, we can approach our labors with greater peace, purpose, and freedom from anxiety. Elaboration on Key Points The Christian's Work Never Ceases but Changes Form Jesse challenges the modern Western notion that work is merely a season of life that eventually ends with retirement. Instead, he presents a more ancient and biblical perspective: that work never ceases but merely takes different forms throughout our lives. Using Paul's metaphor of "walking" in the good works God has prepared (Ephesians 2:10), Jesse explains that our journey continues throughout life, with the landscape changing as we move through different seasons. Whether we're in paid employment, caring for loved ones, serving in retirement, or confined to a bed during illness, God has prepared meaningful work for us to do. Even those who are physically limited can engage in the vital work of intercessory prayer, which Jesse describes as "the kind of work that is so glorious... that while it exhausts us, it exhausts us in a way that brings us the greatest kind of sleep or refreshment." This perspective eliminates the anxiety many Christians feel about the purpose of their later years and affirms the ongoing value of their contributions to God's kingdom regardless of their physical capacity or economic productivity. Good Works Offer Multiple Benefits to Believers Drawing from the Westminster Confession of Faith, Jesse outlines six significant benefits of good works in the Christian life. First, good works manifest our gratitude to God for the gift of His Son—they become tangible expressions of thankfulness for salvation. Second, they bolster assurance of faith by providing evidence of God's work in our lives. Third, good works encourage other Christians toward greater acts of Christ-centered love, as we witness the transforming power of the gospel in one another. Fourth, they adorn the doctrine of God our Savior, making abstract theological truths visible and attractive to others. Fifth, good works silence critics who devalue biblical Christianity by demonstrating its positive impact. Finally, they glorify God by displaying His transformative work of love in our lives. These benefits apply to all forms of work—paid or unpaid—and give eternal significance to even the most mundane tasks when done unto the Lord. As Jesse emphasizes, "There are no mundane things. There are no small works... There are just these small things that come alongside with the great work that God has done already in our lives." Memorable Quotes "Good works aren't bad when they're seen as the goal of salvation, not its ground. The goal, because it's worthwhile to want to worship God and to obey him by doing good works." "Keep walking on that journey knowing that God all along the way has already prepared good works for you to do because he loves you and because this is our opportunity to worship him together in everything that we do." "When we are performing this work for God, he assures our faith. He refreshes us in it. He exhausts us in the best possible way so that we might love him more, cherish him more, encourage one another more, and really come to understand his character more forthrightly." Full Transcript [00:00:08] Jesse Schwamb: Keep walking on that journey knowing that God all along the way has already prepared good works for you to do because he loves you and because this is our opportunity to worship him together and everything that we do. [00:00:32] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 459 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse, and this is the podcast where the tulip never wilts. Hey, brothers and sisters. [00:00:48] Recap of Previous Episode [00:00:48] Jesse Schwamb: So in this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, this solo episode, I'm gonna wrap up a conversation that Tony and I just had in the last episode and set us up, wet Your Appetite for a whole brand new series. [00:01:03] Jesse Schwamb: That's gonna be starting in the next episode. So you find yourself bookended by two really great things. One, a great conversation we just had about the Christian and work. Are there jobs that really Christians shouldn't have? Because it takes us away from what it means to serve the Lord vocationally, as strange as that sounds. [00:01:22] Jesse Schwamb: So if you didn't hear that, you're gonna wanna go check that out before you listen to me, wrap all of us up right now. In fact, here's what you should do. Stop everything you're doing, unless it's operating a vehicle or a backhoe. Power those things down. Get off the side of the road, then go to reformed and you can find all of the episodes living out there that we've ever recorded, including the one from last week, and I believe will be greatly blessed by hanging out with some of those conversations. [00:01:49] Jesse Schwamb: So go and do that first. [00:01:51] The Christian's Work and Retirement [00:01:51] Jesse Schwamb: On this episode, I'm gonna talk a little bit as a follow up about. Does the Christian's work ever cease? Is there a time, because we just spoke about vocational work and work for which we're remunerated, where once that goes away, what happens next? Is it a different kind of work? [00:02:07] Jesse Schwamb: Is it no work? Should we be the kind of people that are trying to pursue an end to that remunerated work as quick as possible? Is that okay? What happens if we can't be compensated for our work anymore? What happens? We're gonna reason from the scriptures a little bit more about work, our calling and all of that by way of vocation. [00:02:26] Jesse Schwamb: And part of this conversation has actually come from a larger conversation. So one of the greatest and best things about this podcast, something I wanna boast in right now, because it has nothing to do with Tony or me, and that is. There are lots of people listening, brothers and sisters from all over the world who gathered together and debrief. [00:02:47] Jesse Schwamb: Talk about the episodes, hang out and talk about life, share funny stories, share prayer requests, support one another. And you can do that by joining our little group on a messaging app called Telegram. So in fact, here's the second thing you should do. If you go to T Me Reform Brotherhood one more time, T Me Back slash Reform Brotherhood, slap that bad boy in your favorite browser, and that'll give you a link to our little corner of this messaging app. [00:03:13] Jesse Schwamb: And there's a channel within that app just to talk about. The various episodes as a way of interacting with all of us, and as a result of the episode that we recorded last about this idea of vocational work and calling, how does that all come together? Brother Joshua posed an excellent question, which is in part the reason for the conversation I'm about to have with you all, and that is what happens. [00:03:33] Jesse Schwamb: When we retire, or what happens when we desire to set aside sufficient resources if we can, so that we can get to that place as soon as possible. What then what about work or what if we have to care for a sick, sick, loved one? Or what if we have to come and take responsibility for our family in a different or unique way that takes us away from work where we're not being paid for things in the same way anymore? [00:03:52] Jesse Schwamb: What happens then? So we are going to get to all of that on this little brief little episode that's gonna sit in between the end of our conversation on work and the beginning of our brand new series, which, you know, you want me to tell you what it is, but I'm not gonna do it. It's just not gonna happen on this episode. [00:04:09] Jesse Schwamb: So you're just gonna have to sit in that anticipation waiting. Waiting for it to come next week, but for now, let's talk a little bit more about work. [00:04:17] Good Works and Salvation [00:04:17] Jesse Schwamb: And let me start with a, a phrase that's like so obvious, but you can say it with me if you want, because we have to agree on this. At least that good works aren't bad. [00:04:27] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, good works aren't bad. They're good. By definition it seems like self-reinforcing. And as Christians, we should want to do those good works. Now, I haven't said what the good works are, haven't even explained really. Although we, Tony and I talked about this before, how they really fit into that pattern and that normative behavior of the Christian life. [00:04:44] Jesse Schwamb: But can we just agree that if the Bible is saying there are good works for us to do, then they must be good. And they must be there for a purpose. They must be there for a reason and we can't debate that. Just because we're not saved according to our works doesn't mean that we shouldn't be concerned about pursuing a life of joyful obedience to God's word. [00:05:01] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, this is why Jesus like emphatically states in the gospel. If you love me, you'll keep my commandments in obedience. However frail it is. However much we stumble, however feeble we are in actually executing it is our evidence. Our love for God and for his son Jesus Christ. So far from undermining the gospel of grace, good works are the perfect compliment to the gospel, and this is why good works are good. [00:05:29] Jesse Schwamb: So to be clear, good works are bad when they're seen as the basis of salvation. And I think if you've been with us for any length of time or you're familiar with the reform. Theological movement. If you've been steeped in the scriptures, you're gonna find that kind of compulsion, that pull that says like, well, I understand that when I use my good works as a means of somehow Meritoriously earning my salvation, they cease to be good. [00:05:54] Jesse Schwamb: This is why, of course, Jonathan Edwards called Good works of this nature, only glittering sin because they're, they have no power to redeem. They have no power to save. They have no power to. Transition yourself into some kind of a righteous sense or rubric. It's impossible. They will not do that. They do not serve that purpose. [00:06:12] Jesse Schwamb: A person is not saved by works, but by God's grace through faith in Christ. [00:06:17] The Role of Good Works in Christian Life [00:06:17] Jesse Schwamb: So this is the time where we have to love ones. Go to Ephesians chapter two. It's impossible for me to continue without at least sharing this good news. If you need to hear this again, and this may be a well rehearsed verse or a well rehearsed writing from the Apostle Paul to you, but I ask that you hear it again. [00:06:32] Jesse Schwamb: If you can with these ears that are unstopped, that are almost fresh with excitement for this really good news, this is what Paul writes to the church and Ephesus for. By grace, you have been saved through faith and that not of yourselves. It is the gift of God, not as a result of works so that no one may boast. [00:06:51] Jesse Schwamb: For we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them. I mean, there's so much there that is. Lovely and refreshing. And freeing. It's not works righteousness, it's not meritorious. Salvation is clearly not of our own doing. It's not the result of these works, even the faith through which we receive salvation is a gracious, gracious gift from God. [00:07:21] Jesse Schwamb: So what a just burden taken off of our shoulders. The mantle has been removed from us. To somehow even equate or think that, well, if I have a good day and I've done a lot for God, he must love me more. I must be more ingratiated towards him, even if I have the sense that. I feel closer to him. Hopefully that closeness is the sense of joy and obedience. [00:07:40] Jesse Schwamb: And now where we get the sense that, well, because I've done something for God, he ought to do something for me or me more favorably disposed towards me. All of that is nonsense and that way just. Total foolishness and madness lies. Instead, when we turn that into our rejoicing first for the faith itself by which we receive from God, that grants us access to this great salvation. [00:08:02] Jesse Schwamb: When we see that as a gift first, then all of this other mongering for responsibility and trying to placate through the things that we can do and having this sense of guilt in our minds about what we should have done or what we did not accomplish, or even if in our own obedience toward Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit, we've fallen short. [00:08:20] Jesse Schwamb: We can still find there is this gift for us and the gift of salvation is ours in Christ through faith, not by works. It's very, very clear in what Paul writes to the church here as fallen creatures, even our best efforts are completely laced with sin. This also is, by the way, a really great kindness of God that we can never really be contrite enough in our coming before him and, and even in our humility, we probably can never be humble enough. [00:08:47] Jesse Schwamb: So the fact that God accepts because of Christ us into the family of God without having to put upon us this burden that you must be sorry enough for your sin, or you're not repentant enough, you haven't expressed the severe and necessary amount of contrition to really placate and understand that you have cosmically committed treason against the all powerful God of the universe. [00:09:13] Jesse Schwamb: Who could stand underneath that kind of weight. And the answer is no one, but by the grace of God through Jesus. So it's amazing. That when we start to think about work, what we find is that God is first doing all of the work in us, and we see that the first work is not our work, but his work, the secondary work, this means of obedience, of showing, our gratitude of expressing praise and worship. [00:09:37] Jesse Schwamb: Must, I think, necessarily be manifest in work that is labor of some kind, because God has first expressed himself in that kind of labor. And second, he's given it to us to do as an experience into his very being and his character, but also in service to him and to those who are around us. I promise I'm getting to all of this good stuff about what does this practically mean, but all this I think is so necessary for us. [00:10:02] Jesse Schwamb: To really set the proper understanding for what it means to have good work to do and to do this work. So these good works provide no basis for boasting because they're utterly worthless to save. They have worth in other ways, but it just turns out they're worthless In this way. It's a bit like if you take your, take your, whatever your domestic currency is, whatever the currency you, you transact in, I live and hang out in the United States, so my currency is the US dollar. [00:10:24] Jesse Schwamb: If I take a bunch of dollars with me and I go travel almost anywhere else in the world. There's a small chance they'll be accepted. And I realize I've picked the wrong currency for this metaphor at this point, but if I let, let's say, let's just pick a different one. Let's say that you live in Zimbabwe or you just happen to have a bunch of Zimbabwean dollars hanging out in your pocket. [00:10:42] Jesse Schwamb: I'm sure some of you do, and you take that currency and you come to the United States and you wanna go buy something, those dollars will not work. They just won't work. Nobody will accept them. They're worthless. They're without value. Now, do they have value? In a certain sense, of course they do. In that domestic currency, in that homeland they do. [00:10:59] Jesse Schwamb: And in the same way, though, of course, slightly different here, our works are these expression of. Obedience of love for God. But the minute we try to exchange them for salvation, what we're gonna find is God says that's worthless here. And it again, is a fool's errand to build your entire life on some kinda system or belief that says, what I'm doing is earning these dollars, making these good works, performing these things. [00:11:22] Jesse Schwamb: So I'll have gathered to myself all of this currency, which I'm then going to use to buy my salvation now, I think even in my own ears, that sounds ridiculous to say, and yet so many of us. Get caught up in that. And if we don't get caught up in whole, we sometimes get caught up in it peace wise, because again, we have a sense that, well, if I've been a particularly good Christian today, doesn't that mean that God is more happy with me? [00:11:45] Jesse Schwamb: And Paul says, no, you have been saved as a gift of God. It is his gracious act that through faith you have been given salvation, and that faith was not of your own. That itself as well was a gift. It's gift upon gift upon gift. And so even the work itself is shaped. By the sense that all that God gives us and him doing all the verbs is his gifting. [00:12:09] Jesse Schwamb: So good works are gonna provide no basis for boasting because they are worthless to save. And the only foundation for salvation is Christ, we're saved by his works, not ours. If you're looking for that good, that first, that perfect work, the thing that you could latch onto, the thing that you would say this, I'm gonna hang my hat. [00:12:27] Jesse Schwamb: And all of my life on the work that you're looking for is not the one that you can accomplish. It is the one...
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Sacred Priorities: Rethinking Christian Influence in Career and Calling
08/29/2025
Sacred Priorities: Rethinking Christian Influence in Career and Calling
In this thought-provoking episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony and Jesse explore the complex relationship between Christian vocation and professional ambition. Moving beyond the obvious prohibition of inherently sinful professions, they examine whether certain legitimate careers might still be inappropriate for Christians if they compromise our responsibilities to family and church. The hosts challenge the common assumption that Christians should seek maximum worldly influence, suggesting instead that faithfulness in our threefold calling—to work, family, and church—should guide our vocational choices. Drawing on Reformed theology's rich understanding of vocation, they offer practical wisdom for believers navigating career decisions and workplace responsibilities while maintaining spiritual priorities in a culture that often glorifies professional success at any cost. Key Takeaways Vocation is threefold: A proper understanding of Christian vocation includes responsibilities to our work, our families, and our church—not just our careers. Lord's Day conflicts: Professions that regularly prevent church attendance and Lord's Day observance may be inappropriate for Christians, regardless of their potential for influence or impact. Family obligations: Scripture teaches that Christians who neglect family responsibilities are "worse than unbelievers" (1 Tim. 5:8), suggesting that careers demanding excessive time away from family may be problematic. Christian influence vs. gospel proclamation: We must distinguish between transforming culture through worldly influence versus the actual proclamation of the gospel, which can happen at any level of employment. Sacrifice is expected: Following Christ often requires sacrificing career advancement, prestige, or financial gain to fulfill our primary callings. Priority check: When considering job opportunities, Christians should evaluate church options in a new location with the same care they give to schools, housing, and other community factors. God calls us to faithfulness: Our primary calling is to faithfulness in our responsibilities, not necessarily to positions of maximum influence or cultural power. Balancing the Threefold Calling The hosts challenge the idea that Christians should prioritize career advancement and influence above all else. They argue that vocation in the Reformed tradition encompasses more than just our paid work—it includes our responsibilities to family and church as well. This means that even if a career opportunity seems beneficial for "kingdom influence," we must evaluate whether it allows us to fulfill our other God-given duties. Tony points out that while some professions clearly contradict Christian ethics, others may subtly undermine our ability to be faithful in all areas of life. A high-powered executive role might provide platforms for influence but could require such time commitments that family relationships suffer or regular Lord's Day worship becomes impossible. As Jesse observes, "vocation is fundamentally God's doing," not simply about finding personal fulfillment or maximizing impact. This framework helps believers evaluate career choices more holistically. The Question of Christian Influence A central question emerges throughout the episode: Should Christians pursue positions of maximum influence to advance kingdom values? While this idea sounds appealing, the hosts suggest it often masks a "theology of glory" rather than embracing the "theology of the cross." Jesse notes that "God doesn't call us to necessarily have outside impact. What he's calling us to is faithfulness." They distinguish between the transformative power of the gospel—which can be proclaimed regardless of position—and other ways of transforming culture through worldly influence. Tony explains that "whether you're the janitor of the hospital or whether you're the CEO of the hospital, the gospel is the same and your role in proclaiming the gospel is the same." This perspective challenges Christians to reconsider whether pursuing leadership positions always aligns with God's calling, especially when such roles might compromise other spiritual obligations. The hosts argue that faithfulness in ordinary circumstances, not exceptional influence, should be our primary aim. Quotes "Would it be great if the CEO of a major Fortune 500 company could be a Christian? Yeah. That would be kind of cool. But if the trade-off is that person has to sacrifice their genuine Christian convictions, that's not worth it." - Tony Arsenal "I do think we have to sit back and ask, is that the calling? So that we're pursuing what is our vocation, not just our potential... I think there is a real temptation to somehow say like, what we need to do is to infiltrate in all the places. And I think what we mean by that is that things here will be better." - Jesse Schwamb "I think the Bible is clearer about a person who is taken away from their home more than is reasonable and more than is healthy for their family, or a Christian who never is able to worship on the Lord's day... than it is on something like identity politics and some of the tangential ways that might cause a person to need to compromise a little bit at a high level." - Tony Arsenal Practical Applications The hosts suggest several practical considerations for Christians evaluating career opportunities: Will this job regularly prevent Lord's Day worship? Does it require sacrificing time with family beyond what's reasonable? Could you negotiate Sabbath observance with potential employers? When relocating, evaluate church options with the same care given to schools and housing Consider whether a lower-paying job that allows faithfulness in all areas might be better than a higher-paying one that doesn't Full Transcript [00:00:00] Introduction and Episode Overview [00:00:08] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 458 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. [00:00:16] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast where even your work is unto the glory of God. Hey brother. Hey [00:00:24] Jesse Schwamb: brother. You know that's right. It [00:00:26] Tony Arsenal: is. That's why I said it. [00:00:28] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it was. That's a great way to open. We, I think from time to time come back to the topic of work and we've got a great, I think, conversation in the queue for this particular episode. [00:00:39] Jesse Schwamb: Now it's gonna sound maybe on the face. Right off the top here. Familiar. So of course, like we've talked before, how scripture makes it clear that Christians are to be salt and light in the world. And we've talked, I think, at length about, well, how exactly do we carry out that? And though we know that we're not saved by our good works. [00:00:57] Jesse Schwamb: Again, the Bible teaches very clearly that God expects good works from Christians, that that is in fact what he saves us to do. Again, we're not saved by those good works, but the question I think still remains, and we're gonna come to it in this conversation about what exactly does he want us to do and where does he want us to do it. [00:01:13] Jesse Schwamb: So in other words, we know that according to scripture, God providentially, governs and cares for his entire creation. So how does that play out in human society given the reality of sin? So we're gonna get to topics like. Well, should Christians be in every line of work? Is that the ideal? Are there jobs or positions or responsibilities that seemingly may not be obvious that Christians really shouldn't be a part of? [00:01:37] Jesse Schwamb: Because it takes them too far afield, maybe from the responsibilities that God gives us holistically to think of our calling is and our families and our churches in our work. So it's a bit more nuanced play of a conversation we had before, but hopefully something that's gonna have all kinds of practicality wrapped around it. [00:01:55] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. So that's what's coming. [00:01:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I'm stoked. I think this is gonna be a good conversation and I think I, I think this is one of those topics where like there's a lot of different angles to come at it from, right? We talk about vocation and work, and we've had those conversations before, and I think other shows and other venues have had that conversation before. [00:02:15] Tony Arsenal: I don't think that I've encountered a conversation really to this like angle of it. So I'm looking forward to this. [00:02:23] Jesse Schwamb: Me too. It's gonna be great. And of course, before we get to all that goodness, all that greatness, which I'm sure is about to transpire shortly and will be of course the definitive conversation, the one to end all to, I guess both to your point, bring it into the world. [00:02:36] Jesse Schwamb: Then to shut it down because we'll have accomplished both ends in just a single hour. [00:02:41] Affirmations and Denials [00:02:41] Jesse Schwamb: Before we get to that, let's do some affirming or denying. This is the part of our conversation where you and I always pick one thing either that we're affirming with and kind of the tradition of the reformed faith, where we take something that's undervalued or something that excites us, we think has great merit or worth, and we put out into the world and say, we're standing behind this thing, or conversely, we deny against it in that same kind of tradition by saying, this thing is overvalued, not worth it. [00:03:05] Jesse Schwamb: Not our jam. So in our tradition, I ask you are you affirming with something or are you not against something? [00:03:11] Tony Arsenal: I'm affirming with something specific that will lead to something general. So, okay. [00:03:16] Exploring AI in Learning [00:03:16] Tony Arsenal: I mentioned a couple weeks ago that I've been playing around with Google Gemini, which is Google's AI platform. [00:03:22] Tony Arsenal: And uh, I've been using it in a sort of interesting way. So Google has, uh, Gemini has these things called gems, which are basically like predefined personalities or predefined. I dunno, like instructions. So they have one gem that is a learning guide where basically you can give it a topic and it will, it will deliver mini lectures, give you quizzes, you can prompt it. [00:03:46] Tony Arsenal: So like I can paste in, um, you know, I can take in Lagos, I can paste a copy of the Bible, like a chapter of the Bible into the learning guide. It'll summarize it, it'll ask me questions. It'll basically gimme many lectures on it. Um, that's the specific thing. This is such a cool technology. And in my mind, this is really where AI is strong, is that you can take large sections of text and it will summarize it and synthesize it into a very usable format. [00:04:14] Tony Arsenal: Um, so what I've been doing, like I said, is I'll read, I'll read a, a chunk of text from whatever it is I'm reading, and then I'll copy and paste that entire chunk of text if it's an electronic text into the learning. Learning guide module and ask it to act as like a seminary lecturer and quiz me on the content. [00:04:33] Tony Arsenal: Um, which really helps to solidify the content I'm reading rather than just passing my eyes over it. I'm actually, um, processing it and retaining it more. I think you could probably do something similar with just about any AI platform if you had the right kind of prompt, which is where the general one comes in. [00:04:50] Tony Arsenal: And I would encourage you, listener to think a little bit about how you might utilize this, because I think we all read lots and lots of things. Our, our, um, particular audience tends to be a little bookish, and so I'm sure we're all reading things as we go, but I'm not sure we're always processing things in the most effective way. [00:05:07] Tony Arsenal: So think a little bit about like how you might use something like chat, GPT, which is available for free, or Claude, which is available for free to do this kind of like. Almost like simulated classroom lecture. Um, and I know there are some questions about ai. Like I, I heard an argument that ai, when you're generating content is, is a sort of form of sophisticated, uh, plagiarism, which I'm not sure I buy it, but I understand the argument. [00:05:33] Tony Arsenal: This is something very different where you're really just using the, using the AI to synthesize and summarize text and sort of spit it back to you in a new format. Um, you're not trying to generate anything new. You're not trying to create anything. That you're gonna publish or anything like that. It's really just a, a form of synthesis. [00:05:49] Tony Arsenal: So I've really found this to be super beneficial. Um, I'm having a really great time at it. I'm, I'm using it for language studies, so I'm reading through mount's basics, biblical Greek. And I'll copy and paste the whole chapter in, ask it to act as a lecturer, and it will walk me through the chapter. It'll stop to do quizzes. [00:06:08] Tony Arsenal: It'll drill me on vocab as I'm going. And then when, when I up, the instruction I get is, don't move forward until you are convinced that I've mastered the content. And so when I get something wrong, it goes back and makes me redo it. So it continues to iterate until it's, until the AI has. Synthesize that I have mastered the content, and then it asks me to provide the next chapter. [00:06:30] Tony Arsenal: So it's a cool technology. It's a, it's a sort of novel use for the technology. Um, again, Google has built in modules that do this, but I think you could probably use chat, GPT or Claude or Orrock or whatever AI model you're using to accomplish the same goal. [00:06:45] Jesse Schwamb: There's no doubt that AI is great for like building study notes, helping you create space, repetition, all those like little hacks that we have long talked about. [00:06:53] Jesse Schwamb: And this provides it to you in a really bespoke course customized way, but it gets you involved. I'm with you if you wanna do this the old fashioned way. I'll go back to something I I've affirmed with before and that's this very famous book originally authored in the 1940s called How to Read a Book by Mor Mortimer, j Adler, and that is an exercise. [00:07:13] Jesse Schwamb: Helping you do some of that stuff in real time as well. Yeah, so I think there'd be a lovely compliment to say you're reading actively and then you get to test immediately that active reading by way of using ai. So even before, like, maybe even just jumping to like, well, let me read it, but I'm, I'm gonna trust that AI's gonna really kind of supplement me or fill in the gaps and just gimme what I need to know. [00:07:33] Jesse Schwamb: Trying to do that in real time. Pausing in your reading. Again, kind of studying as you go along, thinking out loud through what you've just read and then saying, alright, now test me is a great way to, 'cause who wants to like read stuff unless you can remember this stuff and then unless you can apply it, right? [00:07:48] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. So it's such a joy to be able to read things and then to remember. And if you haven't had that experience yet, I like your affirmation. I think this is a great way to test it out. [00:07:56] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, just to maybe flesh this out. So I, I asked it to, and I'm, I'm doing this sort of as an experiment just to see how it works, but also just 'cause it's, it's useful. [00:08:06] Tony Arsenal: I asked it to act as a seminary lecturer and I copied and paste the entire first chapter of the Westminster Confession. And rather than split it up by section and actually combined paragraphs that were. Um, related to each other. So it combined the list of Bible, uh, books, and then the chapter on apocrypha and gave me some like lectures. [00:08:25] Tony Arsenal: But here's what it said about, um, about chapter 10. It says, paragraph 10, declares the supreme judge can be no other than the Holy Spirit speaking scripture. This is the ultimate outworking of sola Scripture, means that every other authority is lesser authority that must submit to the judgment of the word of God. [00:08:42] Tony Arsenal: This includes decrees of church counsels. Opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, private spirits. It goes on for a little while longer. Then it says, I will give you a brief final quiz covering the whole of chapter one, and it asks questions like A historian makes the following claim. The Bible only has authority. [00:08:59] Tony Arsenal: It does because influential councils in the early church, like the Council of Carthage officially voted on which books would be included in the cannon. The church therefore gave the Bible its authority drawing from your knowledge of paragraphs three, uh, three, four, and five. Provide a two-part critique of the historian statement. [00:09:16] Tony Arsenal: Which then I had to type it out. It critiqued, um, it analyzed my answer. Um, I happened to get that question right. I did at one point think maybe this is actually just like finding a way to say everything that I say is right. So I purposely put a wrong answer in and it did identify that the answer was wrong, and then it made me go back and revisit that content. [00:09:35] Tony Arsenal: So it's very, it's a very cool use case. I'm glad that Google kind of built this in. They have all sorts of other gems. If you have, if you have a way to get access to Google Gemini, um. It's not the best AI for everything, but it's got, it's pretty versatile. It's got a lot of utility, so check it out. [00:09:53] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, that sounds great. [00:09:53] Jesse Schwamb: Again, there's all kinds of fun things I think we could be using AI for to help us be better learners or to really enjoy our interaction with data and information more. Yeah. It is a really great way to conversationally help you to learn something, and that's what makes it so much better. It stands way far apart from, again, just leading, just reading or just creating flashcards or even just, just creating study notes, but that back and forth to test you on something, even if it's just like casual knowledge that you can really want to internalize. [00:10:21] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. I found that to be super valuable. Again, like, man, if you're a learner, if you're a reader, if you're a human being, what an amazing time to live in the world where data is so prevalent, but it's increasingly being brought into a place where we can put our arms around it in a way in which we're trying to really understand it. [00:10:38] Jesse Schwamb: You know, I think about how we used to search for something, I mean. Used to like this that like, that wasn't like last year. You know what I mean? Like we just go on to our, your favorite search engine. Type in a topic or maybe type in even a specific question. And at best you'd have to sort through this litany, this plethora, this morass of all these links about articles that may pertain to what you asked. [00:10:58] Jesse Schwamb: Or maybe they pertain to it generally, but not really specifically. Yeah. The specificity with which you can have a conversational interaction that engenders knowledge is wild. I mean, I really think that is like the huge play of ai. Just lean into it and enjoy it. [00:11:12] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. Jesse, what are you affirming or denying tonight? [00:11:16] Nasal Spray Affirmation [00:11:16] Jesse Schwamb: I'm going a totally different direction. It's an affirmation, but I'm taking it from my ears, nose, nose, and throat doctor who affirmed this to me, so I might be totally late on this. There are very few things that I can say like somebody's recommended to me or affirm. It's been like absolute game changer, like just drop dead from the first moment I used it or employed the thing that it just changed everything. [00:11:38] Jesse Schwamb: This is one of those things. Which maybe I've just already oversold, but...
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Pop Culture and Piety: Living for God in a Media-Saturated World
08/22/2025
Pop Culture and Piety: Living for God in a Media-Saturated World
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb dive deep into the intersection of pop culture, entertainment, and the Christian life. They explore how Christians can engage with leisure and media in a way that glorifies God, applying biblical principles like those found in 1 Corinthians 10:31 and Ecclesiastes 3. The hosts emphasize the importance of balancing Christian liberty and holiness, while also recognizing the practical role of rest and recreation in human flourishing. Through personal anecdotes and theological insights, they provide listeners with a framework for discerning entertainment choices, encouraging believers to enjoy God’s good gifts without compromising their faith. Key Takeaways: Entertainment is a Gift from God: Leisure and entertainment, when approached rightly, are part of God’s common grace meant to refresh and restore us. Biblical Principles for Consumption: 1 Corinthians 10:31 reminds Christians that all activities, including entertainment, should glorify God. If an activity cannot do so, it may be unlawful. Christian Liberty and Prudence: Decisions about pop culture often fall under the domain of Christian liberty, constrained by wisdom and prudence rather than legalistic rules. The Importance of Rest: Rest is not just about recharging for productivity; it is a God-given means of worship and human flourishing in its own right. Guarding Against Sinful Influences: Christians should be cautious of consuming media that promotes sin, as it can subtly shape their worldview and lead them astray. Personal Convictions and Context Matter: What is permissible for one believer may not be wise or beneficial for another, depending on individual struggles and contexts. Recreation Should Point Back to God: Whether through beauty, creativity, or storytelling, entertainment can lead Christians to worship God when consumed with discernment. Entertainment as a Gift from God Tony and Jesse emphasize that entertainment, when properly enjoyed, is a part of God’s common grace. This means that activities like watching a movie, playing a video game, or reading a novel are not inherently sinful but can serve as vehicles for rest and refreshment. Drawing from Ecclesiastes 3, they highlight that God has ordained seasons for both work and rest. True rest, they argue, is not about escaping responsibilities but about enjoying God’s gifts in ways that glorify Him and restore our energy to serve others. When approached with discernment, even "secular" forms of entertainment can reflect God’s creativity and goodness. Applying Biblical Principles to Entertainment The hosts discuss how 1 Corinthians 10:31 provides a litmus test for media consumption: "Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God." This principle challenges believers to ask whether their entertainment choices align with God’s glory. For example, content that promotes or glamorizes sin—whether through violence, sexual immorality, or blasphemy—should give Christians pause. However, they also note that some depictions of sin in fiction can serve a redemptive purpose, such as illustrating the consequences of sin or the beauty of redemption. The key is to thoughtfully evaluate whether the media being consumed inclines the heart toward holiness or pulls it away from God. Christian Liberty and Prudence Tony and Jesse stress the importance of Christian liberty in deciding on entertainment choices, while cautioning against legalism. They explain that Christian liberty does not mean a license to sin but rather the freedom to make God-honoring decisions in areas where Scripture does not provide explicit commands. Prudence and wisdom must guide these decisions. For instance, a particular TV show or game may be permissible for one believer but harmful for another, depending on their personal struggles or circumstances. This underscores the need for self-awareness and reliance on the Holy Spirit to discern what is spiritually beneficial. Quotes: "Whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God. If we cannot glorify God in an activity, it’s likely unlawful for us as Christians." – Jesse Schwamb "Recreation is not just about recharging for productivity; it has its own value in glorifying God and enjoying His good gifts." – Tony Arsenal "Every story worth telling reflects, in some way, the greatest story ever told: redemption through Christ." – Jesse Schwamb Full Transcript: [00:00:30] Introduction and Episode Overview [00:00:30] Jesse Schwamb: Welcome to episode 457 of The Reformed Brotherhood. I'm Jesse. [00:00:37] Tony Arsenal: And I'm Tony. And this is the podcast where sound doctrine meets brotherly love. Hey brother. [00:00:44] Jesse Schwamb: Hey brother. So we're in a whole series of little one-off conversations, all kinds of things that just pop into our head, or we've had on a list somewhere that we thought, you know what? [00:00:55] Jesse Schwamb: Someday we should talk about that. And I think we've got another great. Conversation coming up on this episode, we're gonna get into a little bit about how Christians should interact with and consume pop culture maybe, and especially things like entertainment. And I know that there are gonna be people out there thinking, wow, these guys are gonna do what reform people always do. [00:01:15] Jesse Schwamb: They're just gonna come out into their lawn, they're gonna shake their fists angrily at the sky, they're gonna yell at the birds. It might not be that way, loved ones, but you're gonna have to wait. We're gonna talk about it. It's gonna be good. We're gonna get after it. We all do it. Everybody loves a bit of a to consume pop culture. [00:01:31] Jesse Schwamb: Is it possible it might be somewhat of a gift that God has given us? Who knows? Maybe it is, maybe it's not, but we'll get to that. But first, let's affirm with or denying against something in the world. So what have you got for us on this episode, Tony? [00:01:45] Tony's Frustrating Customer Service Experience [00:01:45] Tony Arsenal: I'm gonna keep mine super short. It was a frustrating customer service experience, uh, that I had today. [00:01:52] Tony Arsenal: In general, I, I have, uh, Comcast or Xfinity Internet in general. I'm actually very pleased. Their service. Um, I, I actually find them to be responsive. Um, I've managed to get a decent price. I don't have Comcast television, so that's probably part of it. Um, but I, my cable modem. Slash router, which I've had, I don't know, probably for like eight years. [00:02:13] Tony Arsenal: Um, it finally died, so I bit the bullet and bought a brand new one. And those man, those things have gotten expensive and um, you know, it's supposed to be a super easy installation. You plug it in, you do the little thing on the app and it didn't work. So I had to connect with customer service through the app, and. [00:02:30] Tony Arsenal: It seemed like everything was going fine. And then all of a sudden I get a link in my text message and the lady who's chatting with me on the thing says, well just, just scroll down and click on where it says accept and then hit okay. And I was like, that seems sketchy. So I read it and she was, she had sent me a link to change my internet service. [00:02:51] Tony Arsenal: Uh, she was giving me a 90, an $80 promotional price for the first year. Uh, but then it went up to $140 after the first year. Wow. So I went back to the chat app and I said, I'm sorry, I, I must have miscommunicated something. I don't need to change my service. I just need to activate my modem. She said, oh, no, no, you're not changing your service. [00:03:11] Tony Arsenal: And I said, no, I, I definitely am. She goes, let me explain this to you. And she went through and tried, like, she went through and she's like, your speed is this and you're paying this. And I said, and I said, with all due respect, I'm not stupid. I can see that you're trying to change my service and I'm just not interested. [00:03:27] Tony Arsenal: And I had to fight with her for like 10 minutes before I finally said, just activate my modem, please. I'm not interested. Full stop. So I, I guess I'm just denying. I get, I get it. Like, you gotta try to upsell. I used to be in sales. I don't have any problem with you trying to upsell. I, I don't even necessarily have a problem with you trying to be clever and like, you know, intentional about how you upsell. [00:03:48] Tony Arsenal: Like there are ways that you can do that without being deceptive. This was just deceptive. So I'm not denying Comcast. I'm pleased with my service. I'm denying this particular person and this really just underhanded tactic. It was really, really upsetting. I mean, [00:04:02] Jesse Schwamb: there is nothing like good customer service, right? [00:04:04] Jesse Schwamb: I mean, the converse of that is what a blessing it is, and it's kind of a lesson to all of us and how we treat one another. That is whether we're providing the service or we ourselves are consuming it. It is just such a blessing. It's like so easy and so light when you get somebody who really wants to help you. [00:04:21] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And. You know, I would not have changed my service, but I can imagine that somebody who was looking and was interested, if she had just said straightforwardly, like your internet that you have is far slower than the modem that you're, you're installing, right? Um, we can get you a faster internet speed and give you a, a large discount for the first year. [00:04:42] Tony Arsenal: Are you interested in that? I think a good portion of people would just say yes. Even if they didn't think it through, they would just say, oh yeah, sure. Faster speed, less money. They, they wouldn't think it through. That's not deceptive. If you present an option, honestly, to a consumer and they take it and they didn't understand the terms, that's not deception. [00:04:58] Tony Arsenal: That's on them as the consumer for not thinking through what they're purchasing. This was just straight out, like, don't read it, just click on it, it's fine. Totally underhanded, deceptive. Um, and, and you know, I work in. Sort of a kind of customer service and I just can't imagine ever doing something that shady and calling it customer service. [00:05:15] Tony Arsenal: I was, I was very disappointed. [00:05:17] Jesse Schwamb: But I mean, everybody has customers, right? Yeah. Everybody has somebody they're responsible to, and everybody has people to whom they should be responsible in the kind of care. Whatever you provide to somebody, whether it's your family, it's in your church, it's in your job, so, right. [00:05:30] Jesse Schwamb: I like that. It's a good reminder because again, there's nothing like walking away from experience and being like, wow, that was so easy, or that person was so good to help me. Yeah. Or like they really got me to the end that I was looking for and they did it and I felt better afterwards than I did before I called. [00:05:43] Jesse Schwamb: That should be like our goal, like what does great look like in every interaction that we can have with somebody. [00:05:48] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Jesse, what are you affirming or denying tonight? [00:05:52] Jesse's Affirmation: The Plana App for Plant Care [00:05:52] Jesse Schwamb: I'm going back to the app. Well, and by that was a really weird saying of just, I'm gonna affirm with another app. So I really love a good house plant, but I'm no good at the house plants. [00:06:02] Jesse Schwamb: I really like the way they look. It's a lot of pressure with house plans. Maybe people feel this way. Maybe you've not purchased a house plant or been like, I can't be that person. So here's something that I can confirm with for you. Loved one, it's a app called Plana. It's a Swedish plant care app, and it's designed to help both like novice people like me and I guess really experienced plant owners keep their house and garden plants healthy, which I know sounds super boring, but hear me out on this. [00:06:27] Jesse Schwamb: This is what's cool about this. It offers smart, personalized care reminders for things like watering, fertilizing, misting, repotting, and it has all these things where if you, there's paid subscription for this as well, which I do not have, but I looked at all the options. There's some super cool things like you can use your phone to sense where your plan is sitting, how much light it's getting to really tell you, is this the right spot for my plant? [00:06:49] Jesse Schwamb: Because you know, like some plants are like, we need partial sunlight and partial shade and afternoon sun and direct sun, and you need to water me, but not too much and not so often, but just the right amount. It's a lot of pressure. So it's got all these fun features in it, including like an AI doctor. So you can take a look or a picture of your plant rather, and not only will it describe what plants you have, of course, but it will help you say like, Hey, this thing is not healthy. [00:07:08] Jesse Schwamb: Here's what you should do. So the plant app is, might be your foray into feeling more confident about having some greenery in your house. [00:07:16] Tony Arsenal: Yeah, I, um, I could kill a plastic plant. I could kill like a fake plant, uh, without trying, uh, but I might check this out. You, you've seen my, my home. You've been here? [00:07:26] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Um, my, my house is, it's a, a mobile home and so it's, it's just one long line and it's situated like almost directly east, west. So I get direct sunlight over the top of the house pretty much the entire day. And we have really beautiful, um. Violet cone plants and some other like lilies on one end of the house, um, that the previous owner planted. [00:07:46] Tony Arsenal: They're very beautiful, but um, they just get baked in the sun and there's gotta be something that can be done to sort of help them through this. Maybe it's more water or something like that. So maybe I'll check this out and see if that can help. 'cause they're not, they're not doing great. Um, they, they didn't bloom very well this year. [00:08:00] Tony Arsenal: Mm-hmm. And I'm, I'm wondering if it might be, I dunno, it's been kind of dry, um, this part of the year, more than usual, so I'll check that out. That sounds like a good recommendation. There's a couple of different apps. This one sounds good. [00:08:10] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, it's, there's certainly a lot of stuff that you can get free in it. [00:08:14] Jesse Schwamb: Of course, they want to upsell you like you just talked about. They're, no, no, they're no Comcast, but they definitely would like you to purchase all their other features, and I bet for the right person, it's totally worth it. But I feel so much more confident now. Mainly just the watering. If you surprised how like much pressure. [00:08:30] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah, like aloe plants and also I'm learning the names of my plants finally, which makes me feel more connected. This, this is, listen, this is like the app to help you take dominion in your house over house plants, which sounds like the lowest form of taking dominion, but honestly still shows how complex and complicated life can be and how God has made everything in this really wonderful way. [00:08:52] Jesse Schwamb: So I'm feeling more empowered to love my plants and to hopefully keep them growing. I was gonna say for generations, but I doubt that I'll be passing on links, plants for generations, but hopefully getting just lots more greenery into our living spaces, which is always super fun. [00:09:06] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. I, I, um, I would like to have more plants, but I just, with between toddlers and dogs and my ability to kill anything green that is in my home, uh, I don't think it would be good. [00:09:19] Tony Arsenal: That's your, your sister who is My wife does a good job with plants, but even the, yeah, she does, even, even that the plants die just because they're around me. I'm not sure what it is. I have like a, I hear it, listen, an aura of some sort that just kills plants. [00:09:32] Discussing Christians and Pop Culture [00:09:32] Jesse Schwamb: It's, it's difficult sometimes to grow in soil, which is, I, one of the things I presume Christians often feel like when they're in the culture and when, mm-hmm. [00:09:41] Jesse Schwamb: Do. Do you like that segue? We're so good with this. I do. And when you are consuming, let me say pop culture, or you find yourself in a place where you want entertainment and you want to rest, and I think if you're a Christian for any length of time, you start to ask yourself, okay, so what's my place in all of this? [00:09:59] Jesse Schwamb: And what's interesting when I thought about this topic, which you graciously put forward for us, was that I think several times we've mentioned kind of cultural things often in the affirmation and denial section. Yeah. Where we've. Maybe come hard alongside something and said, this seems good. And other times we've definitely said, this seems very, very bad. [00:10:17] Jesse Schwamb: Yeah. But we've never really had just a pretty honest conversation about, okay, so how does the Christian discern, what is the Christian's role in making that discernment? And how can we, like our house plants grow and flourish in that kind of environment to such a degree that we are actually bearing fruit by the power of the Holy Spirit. [00:10:36] Jesse Schwamb: And yet, of course, separate. From that culture in which we still find ourselves. [00:10:41] Tony Arsenal: Yeah. Yeah. And I, you know, I think it bears saying, um, much of popular culture, media, whatever it might be, a lot of it is going to be a matter of Christian prudence and liberty. And I think it's important to say that because I think, you know, we'll talk about, we'll probably talk about like principles we use to try to determine whether we, you know, individually or, or whatever. [00:11:04] Tony Arsenal: We're going to watch something or listen to something, but. The, the Bible doesn't say like thou shalt, and I'm gonna say this example, and it's a little bit ironic because this is actually a show that I think is pretty black and white. But it, it's not like the Bible says, thou shalt not watch Game of Thrones. [00:11:20] Tony Arsenal: Right. Um. Right. Like thou shalt not. Listen to, I don't know who the kids are listening to. Britney Spears like tells you when The last time I listened to popular music was, is Britney Spears is the name on my mind. But like thou shalt not listen to, I dunno, Paramore, I don't know name. Name your pop culture band. [00:11:37] Tony Arsenal: The Bible doesn't give us explicit instructions about specific bands. Movies, shows, insert, pop, you know, novels, whatever it might be. It does give us some wisdom principles. And then of course, there's God's moral law, uh, but even God's moral law does not. Necessarily apply directly to every pop culture choice we might make. [00:12:04] Tony Arsenal: So I'm sure Jesse and I don't have identical opinions. I'm gonna guess that our thoughts are probably pretty close just because, you know, we're influenced by the same people and we, we are running in the same broader theological circles, but they're probably not identical. There are probably things that Jesse would watch that I'd go, oh, I don't know if that's such a great thing for me. [00:12:22] Tony Arsenal: And there's probably things I would feel comfortable with that Jesse might say, eh, I'm not so sure about that. This is usually a matter of Christian liberty constrained by Christian prudence and wisdom. So before we get into any of the nitty gritty or any specific talk of anything particular, I wanna get that out there because yes, we have to be wise, we have to. [00:12:44] Tony Arsenal: Apply God's law, but we are not able to bind other people's conscience and...
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Remembering God's Faithfulness
08/15/2025
Remembering God's Faithfulness
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal and Jesse Schwamb delve into the profound significance of sharing personal testimonies as a way to reflect on God’s providence and glorify His work in our lives. Through their own faith journeys—Tony’s teenage conversion and Jesse’s early life in a faithful Christian household—they explore the transformative power of the gospel and the beauty of childlike faith. Along the way, they discuss how testimonies encourage others, strengthen the church, and remind us of God’s unchanging faithfulness across every stage of life. Whether you’re reflecting on your own story of grace or seeking ways to minister to others, this episode offers practical insights and encouragement to live out the gospel in word and deed. Key Takeaways Testimonies Reveal God’s Faithfulness: Sharing personal stories of how God has worked in our lives reminds us and others of His providence and sovereignty. The Gospel and Testimonies Are Distinct: While testimonies are powerful, they are not the gospel itself but a witness to how the gospel has transformed individual lives. The Role of Childlike Faith: Faith does not require deep knowledge or sophistication; even a child can grasp the gospel’s profound truth and respond in faith. The Importance of Remembering: Reflecting on God’s past faithfulness strengthens our trust in His future promises, especially during challenging seasons. Ministering to the Next Generation: Teaching children the gospel and nurturing their faith lays a foundation for lifelong discipleship and spiritual growth. Testimonies Create Shared Connections: Sharing faith stories fosters community and builds relational “ruts” that guide others toward faith in Christ. Encouragement to Share Regularly: Believers should be proactive in sharing their testimonies with others as an act of worship and witness. Testimonies Reveal God’s Faithfulness Tony and Jesse emphasize that testimonies serve as a powerful reminder of God’s providential hand in the lives of His people. Looking back on our spiritual journeys allows us to see the intricate ways God has orchestrated events for His glory and our good. As Tony reflects, even the smallest moments of conviction, growth, or change are evidence of God’s unchanging faithfulness. Sharing these stories not only strengthens our faith but also encourages others by showing them that God remains active and present in the lives of His people. The Role of Childlike Faith Jesse highlights the beauty of childlike faith, noting that faith does not require theological sophistication but a simple trust in Jesus. He recounts the profound blessing of growing up in a Christian home where faith was modeled daily. This early exposure to the gospel, combined with the work of the Holy Spirit, laid a foundation for lifelong spiritual growth. Jesse’s story reminds us that God’s grace works powerfully in the lives of children, and nurturing their faith is a vital responsibility of parents, teachers, and the church. Ministering to the Next Generation The hosts passionately discuss the importance of ministering to children, emphasizing the eternal impact of teaching them the gospel. Jesse points to the compounding blessings of early faith, while Tony reflects on how small seeds of spiritual truth planted in childhood can grow into lifelong faithfulness. They call on parents, teachers, and church members to pray for and invest in the next generation, trusting that God can use even simple acts of faithfulness to draw children to Himself. Quotes "There was never a time I did not know the name of Jesus. That is such an underrated blessing and gift." – Jesse Schwamb "Testimonies are not the gospel, but they are a witness to the gospel's power in our lives." – Tony Arsenal "Faith is something so simple. It’s a small faith that can lay hold of a great and big Savior." – Jesse Schwamb
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Law, Gospel, and the Righteousness of God
08/08/2025
Law, Gospel, and the Righteousness of God
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb takes listeners on a deep theological journey into the distinction between law and gospel. Drawing from Martin Luther's theological insights, Jesse explores how these two words from God—the law and the gospel—reveal His righteousness and intersect with Christian living. He reflects on the ways the law exposes sin and reveals the justice of God, while the gospel offers the good news of salvation through Jesus Christ. This timely discussion emphasizes the importance of understanding how God's law and gospel work in harmony to declare His glory and transform lives. Jesse unpacks the theology of the cross versus the theology of glory, highlighting how the gospel is scandalously counterintuitive, displaying God’s power through weakness and Christ’s ultimate act of obedience—His death on the cross. Through thought-provoking metaphors and personal reflections, he illustrates how the law's demands drive us to despair but ultimately point us to the gospel, where we find redemption and freedom in Christ. The episode also delves into the transformative power of the gospel, contrasting it with the law's inability to save. Jesse encourages listeners to consider how the gospel empowers obedience, not as a means of earning righteousness, but as a response to the righteousness imputed to us by Christ. This episode is rich in theological depth and practical application, providing a framework for understanding God’s justice, mercy, and love.
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The Cross and True Christian Power
08/01/2025
The Cross and True Christian Power
In this episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony dive deep into Martin Luther's contrasting theological concepts: the Theology of Glory and the Theology of the Cross. Beginning with a reflection on how the Theology of Glory prioritizes human strength, reason, and achievement, they explore how this perspective can mislead Christians into seeking God through displays of power and visible success. Instead, they emphasize that Luther's Theology of the Cross reveals God's power most profoundly in weakness, suffering, and humility. The conversation highlights how the Theology of Glory often leads to arrogance, misplaced priorities, and a misunderstanding of God's nature and work in the world. Drawing from Scripture, the hosts demonstrate how the Gospel flips the world's values upside down, showing that true Christian power lies in self-sacrifice, service, and dependence on Christ. They also discuss contemporary examples of how the Theology of Glory manifests in modern Christian movements, including megachurch culture, prosperity theology, and even personal pride within small church leadership. Jesse and Tony challenge listeners to examine their own lives and ministries in light of the Theology of the Cross. They encourage believers to adopt an attitude of humility, servanthood, and dependence on God's grace, rather than striving for worldly success or recognition. This episode is a timely reminder that the Christian life is not about glory as the world defines it, but about finding strength in weakness and victory in the cross of Christ. Key Points: Theology of Glory vs. Theology of the Cross: Luther's framework contrasts human-centered religion, which seeks God in power and success, with the Gospel's revelation of God through weakness and suffering. Modern Examples of the Theology of Glory: Prosperity theology, megachurch culture, and some expressions of Christian nationalism illustrate how this mindset persists today. The Power of Humility and Weakness: The Theology of the Cross calls Christians to embrace servanthood and suffering as reflections of Christ's work on the cross. Scriptural Foundations: The hosts reference key Scriptures, such as Philippians 2 and Luke 10, to show how God's kingdom operates differently from human expectations. Practical Applications: Listeners are encouraged to reflect on their own lives and avoid the pitfalls of pride and self-reliance, instead embracing a Christ-centered approach to faith and ministry. Questions for Reflection: How does the Theology of Glory manifest in your own life or church context? In what ways does the Theology of the Cross challenge your understanding of power and success? How can you cultivate humility and servanthood in your daily walk with Christ? Are there areas in your life where you tend to rely on human wisdom or strength instead of God's grace? How does understanding God's power in weakness bring comfort and transformation to your faith? Citations: John Calvin, Commentary on the Gospel According to John, trans. William Pringle, vol. 1 (Bellingham: Logos Bible Software, 2010), .
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Theology of the Cross and Suffering
07/23/2025
Theology of the Cross and Suffering
In this episode of Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony delve into Martin Luther's concept of the Theology of the Cross, a foundational idea in Reformation theology. Rooted in the Heidelberg Disputation of 1518, this theological framework challenges believers to see God's power and purpose in human suffering and weakness. The hosts explore how the cross is the ultimate revelation of God's nature, subverting traditional human expectations of power and glory. The discussion highlights the stark contrast between the Theology of the Cross and what Luther termed the Theology of Glory. The former calls Christians to understand God’s work through suffering and apparent defeat, as exemplified in Christ's crucifixion. Jesse and Tony argue that this paradigm is not only essential for understanding the gospel but also deeply relevant to the modern Christian experience, especially in a culture increasingly drawn to triumphalism and worldly notions of success. This episode is a call to reflect on how suffering shapes the Christian life. The hosts explore how trials and hardships are not merely obstacles but divinely ordained means of sanctification. They underscore the importance of embracing weakness as a pathway to experiencing God’s strength and grace, offering both theological depth and practical encouragement for listeners facing difficulties. Key Points: The Theology of the Cross Explained: Luther’s concept emphasizes that God’s power is revealed through weakness, and His blessings often come disguised as suffering. The cross is central to understanding this paradoxical truth. Relevance for Modern Christians: The episode critiques contemporary triumphalism and discusses how cultural notions of power and success can distort biblical theology. The Theology of the Cross serves as a corrective, calling believers to embrace humility and dependence on God. Suffering as a Means of Sanctification: Jesse and Tony explore how trials are not signs of God’s absence but opportunities for spiritual growth and deeper communion with Christ, who himself suffered for humanity. Luther’s Historical Context: The discussion provides background on the Heidelberg Disputation and how it laid the groundwork for Protestant theology, emphasizing the importance of distinguishing between human merit and divine grace. Questions for Reflection: How does the Theology of the Cross challenge your understanding of God’s power and blessings? In what ways have you seen God use suffering in your life to draw you closer to Him? How can Christians balance engagement with cultural and political movements while maintaining a biblical perspective on weakness and humility? What practical steps can you take to embrace suffering as a means of sanctification without minimizing its difficulty?
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Self-Examination in the Christian Life
07/09/2025
Self-Examination in the Christian Life
In this episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony delve into the crucial Christian discipline of self-examination. Grounding their discussion in Scriptures like Psalm 139:23-24 and 2 Corinthians 13:5, they explore what it means to test and examine oneself in the faith. They emphasize that self-examination is not about undermining assurance but rather about deepening a believer’s trust in Christ while fostering spiritual growth and humility. The conversation highlights the necessity of prayer as the starting point for self-examination. Jesse and Tony remind listeners that asking God to search and reveal the state of one’s heart is an act of worship and dependence. They also discuss the difference between examining oneself scholastically (assessing knowledge of the faith) and testing oneself by comparing one’s life against the standard of Christ. Both are vital to a vibrant and gospel-centered Christian life. Listeners are encouraged to embrace self-examination as a regular and joyful practice that leads to assurance and maturity in Christ. Far from being an exercise in despair, self-examination is presented as a means to greater dependence on the finished work of Christ and a deeper appreciation of the Holy Spirit’s role in illuminating sin and pointing believers to their Savior. Key Points: The Biblical Call to Self-Examination The discussion begins with an exploration of Psalm 139 and 2 Corinthians 13:5, where Scripture commands believers to examine their hearts and test their faith. This practice is necessary for spiritual growth and assurance in Christ. Self-Examination as a Spiritual Discipline Jesse and Tony underscore the importance of self-examination as a regular practice, not just for addressing sin but also for recognizing God’s work in one’s life. They emphasize starting this process with prayer, asking God to reveal both sin and righteousness. The Role of the Holy Spirit in Self-Examination The Holy Spirit plays a vital role in guiding believers through the process of self-examination. He convicts of sin, assures of righteousness, and leads believers to deeper dependence on Christ. Balancing Conviction and Assurance The hosts caution against the danger of turning self-examination into morbid introspection. Instead, they encourage listeners to see it as a hopeful practice that strengthens faith and magnifies Christ’s finished work. Questions for Reflection: How often do you take time to examine your heart and motives before God? What role does prayer play in your self-examination process? Are there areas in your life where you see Christ working but haven’t taken time to reflect on and thank Him for? How can you balance conviction of sin with assurance in Christ during self-reflection? What Scriptures encourage you to test and examine your faith?
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Demons and the Sovereignty of God
07/02/2025
Demons and the Sovereignty of God
In this episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony delve into the topic of demons and spiritual warfare, exploring what the Bible teaches about these spiritual entities and their activity in the world. The conversation begins with an examination of Job 1, where Satan appears in the heavenly court to accuse Job, demonstrating how God’s sovereignty encompasses even the actions of the devil and his demons. The discussion emphasizes that while demons are real and dangerous, they operate under the ultimate authority of God, who uses even their actions to fulfill His purposes. The hosts also discuss the role of Christ's death and resurrection in fundamentally altering the influence and power of Satan and his demons. Drawing from Revelation 20, they explain how Christ’s victory has “bound” Satan, limiting his ability to deceive the nations and opening the way for the Gospel to spread to all people. This pivotal event in redemptive history marks a shift in the spiritual realm, giving Christians the confidence to stand firm against spiritual opposition, knowing that the ultimate victory has already been won in Christ. Additionally, Jesse and Tony reflect on various Biblical accounts of demonic activity, such as the demoniac at Gennesaret and the failed exorcism by the seven sons of Sceva in Acts 19. These stories highlight the power of Jesus’ name, the reality of spiritual warfare, and the dangers of invoking Christ’s authority without true faith. The episode concludes with a call to Christians to prepare for spiritual battles through Scripture, prayer, and reliance on the power of Christ. Key Points: The Sovereignty of God Over Demons: The story of Job reveals that even Satan's actions are under God’s control, serving His divine purposes. The Binding of Satan: Revelation 20 teaches that Christ's death and resurrection have limited Satan’s ability to deceive the nations, enabling the spread of the Gospel. Biblical Accounts of Demonic Activity: Stories like the demoniac at Gennesaret and the seven sons of Sceva illustrate the power and authority of Christ over demons. Practical Lessons for Christians: Believers are called to stand firm in faith, armed with Scripture, and confident in Christ’s ultimate victory over evil forces. Questions for Reflection: How does Job 1 demonstrate God’s sovereignty over Satan and his actions? What does Revelation 20 teach us about the impact of Christ’s resurrection on Satan’s power? Why is it important for Christians to rely on true faith and not superficial invocations of Jesus’ name in spiritual battles? How can Biblical accounts of demonic activity help us better understand the nature of spiritual warfare today? What practical steps can Christians take to prepare for spiritual opposition?
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Understanding Spiritual Battles in Daily Life
06/25/2025
Understanding Spiritual Battles in Daily Life
In this episode of Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb and Tony Arsenal tackle the often-overlooked topic of spiritual warfare, focusing on the biblical truths about angels and demons. The discussion begins by affirming the reality of Satan and his demons as active agents in the world, working to oppose God and deceive humanity. Drawing from both Scripture and personal experiences, the hosts emphasize the importance of being aware of the spiritual battles that Christians face daily and how these confrontations are a central part of our spiritual journey. The conversation highlights the need for a balanced approach to understanding demonic activity—avoiding both sensationalism and denial. Jesse and Tony explore the biblical descriptions of angels and demons, noting their similarities and differences while pointing out the limitations of demonic power under God’s sovereignty. They also discuss how demons often operate through deception, appearing in forms meant to confuse or distract, and how believers can recognize and resist these schemes. This episode encourages Christians to take spiritual warfare seriously by relying on the supremacy of Christ, equipping themselves with the armor of God, and remaining vigilant against the enemy's tactics. Whether you're new to the concept of spiritual warfare or looking to deepen your understanding, this conversation offers practical insights and theological depth to help you stay rooted in faith. Key Points: The Reality of Spiritual Warfare: Satan and demons are real, active forces working to oppose God and deceive humanity. Christians must take this reality seriously while remaining grounded in Christ's supremacy. Biblical Perspective on Angels and Demons: Angels and demons share the same origin as created beings, but their purposes and moral alignments differ significantly. Demons often use deception to lead people astray. Practical Steps for Spiritual Readiness: Christians are called to be vigilant, equipping themselves with the armor of God and staying rooted in Scripture to recognize and combat demonic influence. Questions for Reflection: How does understanding the biblical reality of angels and demons change the way you view spiritual warfare? What steps can you take to better equip yourself for spiritual battles in your daily life? In what ways can the church help believers remain aware of and prepared for the reality of spiritual warfare?
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The Lord’s Day and Its Significance
06/18/2025
The Lord’s Day and Its Significance
In this engaging episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb and Tony Arsenal dive into the rich theological and practical significance of the Sabbath in Reformed theology. They begin by discussing the dual aspects of the Sabbath as a creation ordinance and a ceremonial practice, explaining how it is both a moral obligation for all humanity and a type that pointed forward to Christ's redemptive work. The hosts emphasize that the Sabbath is a blessing, not a burden, designed for rest, worship, and spiritual renewal. The conversation explores how the Sabbath transitions from the seventh day in the Old Testament to the first day, the Lord’s Day, in the New Testament. This shift highlights its fulfillment in Christ’s resurrection, which establishes a new rhythm of worship and rest for Christians. The hosts also tackle the complex issue of Sabbath observance in persecuted regions, addressing how believers might navigate the challenges of gathering for worship in secrecy or under threat. Throughout the episode, Jesse and Tony reflect on why the Sabbath remains vital in the Christian life. They emphasize that while Christ is our ultimate rest, the weekly observance of the Lord’s Day continues to foster spiritual growth, communal worship, and reliance on God’s provision. The discussion is punctuated with practical insights, theological clarity, and a pastoral heart for the global church. Key Points: The Sabbath as a Creation Ordinance: The Sabbath was established at creation as a perpetual moral obligation for all humanity, commemorating God’s work in creation and providing a rhythm of rest and worship. The Sabbath’s Fulfillment in Christ: As a ceremonial law, the Sabbath pointed forward to Christ’s redemptive work, which fulfills the deeper rest and reconciliation it symbolizes. The Transition to the Lord’s Day: Following Christ’s resurrection, the Sabbath shifted to the first day of the week, reflecting the new creation in Christ and the church’s ongoing commitment to gather and worship. Sabbath Observance in Persecuted Regions: The hosts thoughtfully consider how Christians in areas of persecution might navigate the challenges of gathering for worship, emphasizing the importance of wisdom, humility, and reliance on God’s providence. The Sabbath as a Blessing, Not a Burden: The weekly observance of the Lord’s Day is an opportunity for spiritual renewal, worship, and rest, reminding believers to trust in God’s provision and fully rest in Christ. Questions for Reflection: Why is the Sabbath considered a moral obligation for all humanity, and how does it reflect God’s character? How does the shift from the seventh day to the first day (the Lord’s Day) enhance our understanding of Christ’s work in redemption? In what ways can Christians balance rest and worship on the Sabbath to experience its full blessing? How should Christians in persecuted regions approach Sabbath observance while navigating safety concerns? What practical steps can you take to make the Sabbath a meaningful day of rest and worship in your life?
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Capturing Knowledge That Glorifies God
06/11/2025
Capturing Knowledge That Glorifies God
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Tony Arsenal takes listeners on a deep dive into the art and purpose of effective note-taking, particularly within the context of Christian living and theological study. With Jesse absent for this episode, Tony explores practical techniques to help Christians retain, process, and apply what they read, whether it be from Scripture, theological works, or even secular writings. Highlighting his own personal process, Tony emphasizes the importance of reading with intention and grounding all study in the ultimate goal of glorifying God and enjoying Him forever. The episode details Tony’s structured note-taking process, which includes reading with a clear purpose, capturing highlights, organizing thoughts systematically, and reviewing and reusing notes for practical outcomes. He emphasizes the importance of using tools that work for the individual, whether digital platforms like Obsidian markdown or analog methods like commonplace books. The central theme throughout is that note-taking is not just about acquiring knowledge, but about using that knowledge to reflect God’s glory in everyday life. Tony also ties the practice of note-taking to theological principles, referencing the Westminster Catechism’s teaching that every action should aim to glorify God. He challenges listeners to examine their own study habits and consider how they can better use what they learn to serve their families, churches, and communities. Whether through teaching Sunday school, sharing the faith with children, or preparing sermons, the episode demonstrates how intentional note-taking can enhance spiritual growth and equip believers for ministry. Key Points: The Purpose of Note-Taking: Note-taking is not an end in itself but a means to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. It helps Christians reflect on and apply what they learn in practical ways. Tony’s Note-Taking Process: A step-by-step guide that includes reading with intention, highlighting key insights, organizing notes with tags, and reviewing them regularly for reuse. Tools and Techniques: Recommendations for using tools like Obsidian markdown or analog methods, emphasizing flexibility and personalization in developing a system that works. Practical Applications: The importance of using notes for teaching, sermon preparation, family devotions, and theological discussions, making knowledge actionable and impactful. Theological Foundations: Connecting note-taking to the broader Christian life, including meditating on Scripture and theological works as a means of sanctification. Questions for Reflection: How does your current note-taking process help you retain and apply what you read? In what ways can you ensure that your study habits glorify God and enhance your enjoyment of Him? What tools or methods could you adopt to make your note-taking more effective and organized? How can you use what you learn to serve your church, family, or community more effectively? What intentions or goals should you set before starting your next reading or study session?
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Christian Unity in Action
06/04/2025
Christian Unity in Action
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony explore Paul’s letter to Philemon, unpacking its rich theological and practical implications. At the heart of the discussion is Paul’s appeal for Onesimus, a runaway slave who has become a Christian. Paul’s letter serves as a vivid demonstration of how the gospel transforms relationships, highlighting the themes of forgiveness, restitution, and reconciliation. The hosts reflect on the radical nature of grace, which not only calls for the restoration of broken relationships but also compels believers to go above and beyond in their love and service to one another. Jesse and Tony dive into the profound theological principles embedded in Paul’s words, including substitutionary atonement and the unity of believers in Christ. They explore how Paul’s appeal models the gospel itself, showcasing Christ’s substitution on behalf of sinners. The letter is not just a personal plea but also a public call to let the grace of Christ reshape every aspect of Christian conduct and community. This episode challenges listeners to consider how their own relationships and interactions reflect the gospel’s transformative power. The discussion also touches on practical applications of Christian unity, such as church membership and the unique bonds between believers. The hosts examine what it means to live out the radical call to Christian fellowship in everyday life, from supporting fellow believers in times of need to fostering harmony in the church. With humor, depth, and compelling insights, this episode encourages listeners to embrace the scandalously generous grace of God in all their relationships. Key Points: Paul’s Letter to Philemon as a Model of Gospel Transformation Paul’s appeal for Onesimus reflects key gospel principles such as forgiveness, reconciliation, and substitution, illustrating how the gospel reshapes relationships and communities. The Radical Unity of Believers The episode highlights the unity of Christians as a reflection of the unity found in the Trinity. This unity has profound implications for how believers treat one another in both personal and public spheres. Restitution and Responsibility in Christian Conduct Jesse and Tony discuss Paul’s emphasis on restitution, noting that conversion does not erase past wrongs but increases the believer’s responsibility to make things right in light of the gospel. Practical Implications of Christian Fellowship The hosts explore how the biblical call to Christian unity should impact relationships in various contexts, including church membership, workplace dynamics, and neighborly interactions. The Scandal of Grace Grace is presented as a radical and scandalous force that calls believers to love, forgive, and restore relationships in ways that mirror Christ’s love for His people. Questions for Reflection: How does Paul’s appeal for Onesimus challenge your understanding of forgiveness and restitution? In what ways can you reflect the unity of believers in your relationships with fellow Christians? How does the concept of substitutionary atonement impact the way you view your responsibilities toward others? Are there areas in your life where you struggle to extend grace or reconciliation to others? How can your involvement in your local church reflect the radical unity and love described in Paul’s letter to Philemon?
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From Slave to Brother
05/28/2025
From Slave to Brother
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb and Tony Arsenal delve into the letter of Philemon, focusing on the transformative power of the gospel in relationships. They examine Paul’s heartfelt appeal to Philemon on behalf of Onesimus, a slave who has become a believer and is now returning as a brother in Christ. The discussion reflects on the profound theological implications of forgiveness, reconciliation, and Christian unity, as well as the way the gospel subverts societal roles while upholding spiritual kinship. Jesse and Tony explore the delicate yet powerful language Paul employs in his letter, highlighting how he appeals to Philemon’s faith and love to guide his actions. Paul's request challenges Philemon to see Onesimus not just as a slave but as a beloved brother, emphasizing the radical equality that the gospel brings to all believers. The hosts unpack the layered dynamics of this relationship, showing how it serves as a practical application of the theology outlined in Colossians. The conversation also touches on the broader implications of living out the gospel in everyday relationships. Through Paul's example, believers are encouraged to prioritize love, forgiveness, and humility, embodying the transformative work of Christ in their interactions with others. This episode offers rich insights into how theology intersects with daily life, challenging listeners to reflect on their own relationships in light of the gospel. Key Points: Paul's appeal to Philemon demonstrates a balance between authority and love, showcasing how Christian leaders can guide others in faith. The gospel transforms relationships, breaking down societal barriers and emphasizing spiritual equality among believers. Forgiveness and reconciliation are central themes, as Paul challenges Philemon to welcome Onesimus back not as a slave but as a beloved brother in Christ. Questions for Reflection: How does the gospel challenge societal roles and transform relationships in your life? What can we learn from Paul’s approach to addressing sensitive and difficult situations with love and tact? How does recognizing the spiritual equality of all believers impact your interactions within the church and beyond?
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The Fellowship of Faith
05/21/2025
The Fellowship of Faith
In this episode, Jesse and Tony dive into the letter of Philemon, exploring its rich themes of forgiveness, reconciliation, and Christian unity. As a follow-up to their study of Colossians, this episode highlights how the gospel transforms relationships and challenges believers to live out their faith in practical ways. Paul’s appeal to Philemon serves as a powerful example of applying theology to real-life situations, emphasizing the importance of love and mutual partnership in faith. The discussion unpacks Paul’s unique rhetorical approach in addressing Philemon. Instead of commanding him, Paul appeals to him out of love, trusting in his faith and Christian maturity to guide his response to Onesimus, a former slave. Jesse and Tony also reflect on the deeper implications of Christian fellowship, or "koinonia," as a bond that transcends social and cultural divisions, uniting believers in Christ. The episode challenges listeners to consider how they live out the gospel in their own relationships and communities. By highlighting the practical application of Paul’s teachings, Jesse and Tony encourage believers to reflect on their own love, unity, and willingness to forgive and reconcile. Key Points: The Fellowship of Faith: Paul emphasizes the shared bond of faith, or "koinonia," between himself, Philemon, and Onesimus, which serves as the foundation for his appeal. Paul’s Rhetorical Approach: Rather than commanding Philemon, Paul appeals to him for love’s sake, trusting his Christian character and maturity to guide his response. Living Out the Gospel: The letter challenges believers to reflect on how they demonstrate forgiveness, reconciliation, and unity within their own relationships and communities. Questions for Reflection: How does the concept of "koinonia" challenge your understanding of Christian fellowship and community? In what ways can you practice forgiveness and reconciliation in your relationships, as Paul encourages Philemon to do? What does it mean to live out the gospel in practical ways within your own sphere of influence?
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Lessons from Paul’s Closing Words
05/14/2025
Lessons from Paul’s Closing Words
n this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony dive into the final verses of Colossians 4, reflecting on Paul’s closing words and the rich theological and practical insights they offer. The discussion begins by addressing the significance of these often-overlooked sections of scripture, emphasizing their God-breathed purpose and the enduring lessons they provide for the church today. Paul's ministry partners, including Tychicus, Onesimus, and Luke, take center stage as Jesse and Tony explore how God uses ordinary people to accomplish extraordinary purposes in His kingdom. The conversation also highlights the theme of reconciliation, particularly through Onesimus' story, as Paul sends him back to Colossae, urging the church to embody the gospel by welcoming him with grace. This practical application of theology reminds listeners that the gospel transforms relationships and calls believers to live out Christlike love in their communities. Jesse and Tony also unpack the broader implications of Paul’s instruction to share the letter with the Laodiceans, underscoring the importance of scripture’s universal application across time and culture. As the episode wraps up, the hosts reflect on the unity and encouragement found in Paul’s words, reminding listeners of the value of every member of the body of Christ. They also prepare for their upcoming exploration of Philemon, which continues the story of Onesimus and offers further insight into living out faith in real-world situations. This episode is a rich blend of theology, practical wisdom, and encouragement for believers seeking to grow in their understanding of scripture and community. Key Points: The Significance of Paul’s Final Words: Paul’s closing remarks in Colossians 4, though seemingly mundane, reveal God’s interest in the details of ministry and the importance of community within the church. God Uses Ordinary People: The episode highlights Paul’s ministry partners, showing how God works through ordinary individuals like Tychicus, Onesimus, and Luke to advance His kingdom. Reconciliation in Action: The story of Onesimus demonstrates the transformative power of the gospel, as Paul encourages the Colossian church to welcome him back with grace and forgiveness. Universal Relevance of Scripture: Paul’s instruction to share the letter with the Laodiceans emphasizes the broader application of scripture beyond its immediate audience, affirming its value for all believers. Practical Theology and Community: Jesse and Tony discuss the importance of living out theological truths in everyday life, particularly in fostering unity and encouragement within the church. Questions for Reflection: How does Paul’s inclusion of specific names and details in his letters inspire you to see God’s work in the “ordinary” aspects of ministry? What lessons can we learn from Onesimus’ story about reconciliation and living out the gospel in challenging situations? How can we as believers ensure that our churches reflect the unity and diversity seen in Paul’s ministry team? Why is it important to view scripture as universally applicable, and how does this perspective affect how we read and apply the Bible today? In what ways can you, like Paul’s ministry partners, support and encourage others in your church or community?
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Prayer as the Christian’s Lifeline
05/07/2025
Prayer as the Christian’s Lifeline
In this episode of the Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony dive into Colossians 4:2–6, unpacking its rich themes of persistent prayer, evangelism, and the importance of gracious communication. They explore Paul's exhortation to the Colossian church, focusing on how prayer, wisdom, and speech are integral to a Christian's life and witness. The conversation emphasizes that prayer is not merely an action but a defining characteristic of the Christian life, reflecting the believer's intimacy with God and reliance on His grace. The hosts examine Paul's request for prayers that his proclamation of the gospel might be clear and effective, noting that clarity is essential in ensuring the message of Christ is understood fully by its hearers. They also discuss the relationship between wise conduct, gracious speech, and the ability to answer others with the truth of the gospel. The importance of integrating faith into everyday interactions is highlighted, particularly when engaging with non-believers in ways that reflect Christ's love and wisdom. The episode also delves into how Christians can faithfully live out their faith in a world of challenges, particularly on platforms like social media, where speech often lacks grace and wisdom. Jesse and Tony remind listeners of the high calling to let their words always be seasoned with salt, ensuring that every interaction serves as an opportunity to glorify God and share the gospel. Key Points: Persistent Prayer as a Lifeline: Christians are called to devote themselves to prayer, not just as an occasional act but as a continuous lifestyle that reflects intimacy with God. Clarity in Gospel Proclamation: Paul’s request for prayer highlights the importance of presenting the gospel clearly and cogently, ensuring its full understanding by hearers. Gracious Speech and Wise Conduct: Walking in wisdom and letting speech be gracious and seasoned with salt are essential for effective evangelism and maintaining a Christian witness. Faith in Everyday Interactions: Integrating faith into daily life involves speaking and acting in ways that reflect Christ’s love and wisdom, especially in challenging environments like social media. Questions for Reflection: How does your prayer life reflect your relationship with God, and in what ways can it become more consistent and intentional? In what areas of your life can you work to make your speech more gracious and seasoned with salt? How can you integrate faith into your daily interactions with non-believers in a way that reflects Christ’s love and wisdom? Are there specific people or ministries you can commit to praying for, as Paul asks the Colossians to pray for him?
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Understanding Christian Household Ethics
04/30/2025
Understanding Christian Household Ethics
In this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse Schwamb dives deep into the rich and challenging teachings of Colossians 3:18–4:1 on Christian household ethics. With Tony absent, Jesse takes the reins to explore the revolutionary and countercultural aspects of Paul's instructions to wives, husbands, children, and slaves. He emphasizes how these teachings, though often misunderstood or misapplied, are deeply rooted in the lordship of Christ and the call for submission, love, and service within the family structure. Jesse begins by highlighting the groundbreaking nature of Paul's acknowledgment of women, children, and slaves in a societal context where these groups often held little to no value. Paul’s direct address to these groups affirms their inherent worth as image-bearers of God. Jesse also challenges listeners to see how Paul's instructions to men, particularly husbands and fathers, subvert the cultural norms of the time by calling them to love and serve their families sacrificially, rather than exercising dominance. The discussion extends to the broader implications of Paul's teaching, focusing on how Christ's lordship should permeate every aspect of family life. Jesse draws attention to the transformative power of living out these principles in modern Christian households, urging listeners to embrace submission and service not as burdens, but as acts of worship and reverence for Christ. Key Points: Paul’s Revolutionary Address to Marginalized Groups: Paul affirms the value of women, children, and slaves by addressing them directly, which was unprecedented in the cultural context of the Roman Empire. The Call for Husbands to Love and Serve: Paul challenges traditional male authority by instructing husbands and fathers to lead with love and avoid harshness, reflecting Christ’s sacrificial love. Christ-Centered Family Dynamics: All family relationships are to be oriented around Christ’s lordship, emphasizing submission and service as acts of worship. The Surprising Ethics of Slavery: While acknowledging the existence of slavery in the Roman world, Paul subverts its norms by reminding masters of their accountability to their own Master in heaven. Questions for Reflection: How does Paul’s affirmation of marginalized groups in Colossians challenge societal norms, both in his time and today? In what ways does the call for husbands to love their wives mirror Christ’s love for the Church? How can we ensure that Christ remains at the center of our family relationships and everyday interactions? What does submission look like in a modern Christian household, and how can it reflect reverence for Christ?
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Singing Together as a Spiritual Discipline
04/23/2025
Singing Together as a Spiritual Discipline
n this episode of The Reformed Brotherhood, Jesse and Tony delve into Colossians 3:16–17, exploring the essential role of singing in Christian worship. They discuss how singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs is both a command and a spiritual discipline for believers, emphasizing its importance in teaching gospel truths and fostering mutual edification within the body of Christ. Singing is not merely an individual act of worship but a communal practice that unites the church in shared faith and gratitude. The hosts reflect on the transformative power of music in worship, emphasizing its role in shaping Christian character and relationships. They explore how singing serves as a means of mutual instruction, allowing believers to proclaim gospel truths to one another while glorifying God. Jesse and Tony also highlight the need for congregants, particularly men, to actively participate in worship through singing, modeling obedience and devotion for their families and fellow believers. Additionally, the conversation touches on how the act of singing transcends generational and cultural boundaries, bringing together believers of all ages and backgrounds. The hosts underscore the unique power of music to unite the church, deepen spiritual formation, and prepare hearts for eternal worship around the throne of God. Key Points: The Command to Sing Singing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs is a biblical command for all believers, rooted in passages like Colossians 3:16–17 and Ephesians 5. This act of worship is not optional but central to the Christian life. Singing as Mutual Instruction Worship through singing serves as a means of teaching and admonishing one another in gospel truths. It is a communal act that fosters spiritual growth and unity among believers. The Role of Men in Worship Jesse and Tony discuss the importance of men leading by example in worship, particularly through singing, to encourage their families and the congregation to participate wholeheartedly. Music’s Power to Unite and Transform Singing in worship transcends individual preferences and abilities, uniting believers of all ages and backgrounds in a shared expression of faith and gratitude to God. Practical Encouragement for Worship Participation The hosts encourage listeners to prioritize singing in both corporate worship and family settings, reminding them that even imperfect voices glorify God and edify the church. Questions for Reflection: How does your personal approach to singing in worship align with the biblical command to sing psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs? In what ways can congregational singing foster unity and mutual edification in your church? How can you encourage those around you, especially within your family, to participate in worship through singing? What steps can you take to incorporate doctrinally sound music into your daily life and family worship?
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