S6, Ep. 15: Religious objections and curriculum opt-outs: Oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor
Release Date: 05/29/2025
Best of: A report, a prayer vigil, and a somber anniversary: Remembering the January 6 attack
Respecting Religion
As Amanda’s sabbatical begins, we are revisiting previous episodes of the podcast. This week marked the 5th anniversary of the January 6 attack on the Capitol. In today’s episode of Respecting Religion, hear a conversation two years after the attack. Amanda and Holly share their reactions to the report released by the January 6 Select Committee at the end of 2022, including the lack of any mention of Christian nationalism and why that matters. They also discuss the importance of Christian leaders providing an alternative witness in 2023 to the Christian nationalism exhibited during the...
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S7, Ep. 08: ‘A vibrant and free civil society is core to religious liberty in our country’
Respecting Religion
In our last show of 2025, Amanda and Holly talk about some of the news from the past week – including an expansion of the travel ban, devastating attacks around the world, and an appearance by Amanda before Congress to talk about the importance of protecting civil society. Plus, get an update on the podcast’s plans for spring 2026 as Amanda embarks on her first sabbatical. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:33): Amanda’s most recent appearance before Congress You can hear Amanda’s opening testimony at 06:37 in this podcast. You can watch it online . Amanda and Holly...
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S7, Ep. 07: Religion in the military and the latest from Trump’s Religious Liberty Commission
Respecting Religion
The Trump administration created a “Religious Liberty Commission” in May, and it seems to be a mix of performative posturing and grievance airing, with some policy substance thrown in. Amanda and Holly discuss what this commission has – and hasn’t – done so far, and they look more closely at this week’s hearing on religion in the military. Littered with celebrities, many of the hearings are privileging certain religious views over others, often furthering “Christian nation” mythology and sharing general misinformation. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:33): What...
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S7, Ep. 06: Updates on Oak Flat, the Johnson Amendment, and efforts to post the Ten Commandments
Respecting Religion
Hear Amanda and Holly react live to some breaking developments in today’s Respecting Religion podcast. One day after new legislation was introduced in Congress to save sacred Indigenous land, they discuss the history of and need for the Save Oak Flat from Foreign Mining Act. Plus, they talk about a brand-new class action lawsuit in Texas trying to halt the unconstitutional posting of the Ten Commandments in classrooms, and they share an update on the latest court activity regarding efforts to protect the Johnson Amendment. This conversation aired live on social media on BJC’s...
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S7, Ep. 05: A religious freedom case flying under the radar: SCOTUS hears Landor v. Louisiana Dept. of Corrections
Respecting Religion
One religious freedom case at the Supreme Court isn’t getting the sort of attention as others, despite how it’s uniting groups that often disagree. So, why did the justices sound so skeptical in the courtroom? Amanda and Holly review this week’s oral arguments in Landor v. Louisiana Department of Corrections, which involves the remedy available to a man whose religious freedom rights were violated when he was in prison. The violation isn’t in question, so why is the remedy? Amanda and Holly review the details in this case, play audio from key moments in the courtroom, and...
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S7, Ep. 04: Criminalizing Mercy: Sanctuary and Government Repression of Migrant Justice
Respecting Religion
Today, we are bringing you a special presentation on the contested issue of “sanctuary,” which continues to cut into the immigration debates in our country. Dr. Sergio M. González traces the sanctuary movement to its roots in the 1980s and examines how we arrived at a moment where mercy is met with repression. This presentation was given on the campus of the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul, Minn., on Oct. 22, 2025, as part of BJC’s annual Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting...
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S7, Ep. 03: Why is the Johnson Amendment under attack again?
Respecting Religion
We hear a lot of misinformation about a long-standing part of the tax code that protects the nonprofit sector, and it’s newly under attack in a questionable manner. On this episode, Amanda and Holly discuss the Johnson Amendment, what it does and doesn’t do, and the concerning way the Trump administration is trying to undo it without going through a normal process. They also provide reminders of what all nonprofits – including houses of worship – can do without jeopardizing their 501(c)(3) status under that current law. It’s a curious case – politicians say no one wants this part...
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S7, Ep. 02: Amanda and Holly LIVE on peaceful protests, the impact of the government shutdown, and more
Respecting Religion
In this LIVE conversation, Amanda and Holly take a moment to catch up and review some of the recent news since last week’s program. They discuss how religious leaders have been engaging in peaceful protests of immigration raids, how the ongoing government shutdown is impacting court cases, a change in Oklahoma regarding Bible teaching in public schools, and more. This show first aired live on Thursday, October 23, at 11 a.m. Eastern Time on BJC’s YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram channels. SHOW NOTES: Do you want special emails about the show, including notifications...
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S7, Ep. 01: The Supreme Court in a new era
Respecting Religion
As the Supreme Court begins a new term, we can’t ignore what else is going on in our country – attacks on the rule of law, weaponization of the Department of Justice, the militarization of American cities, disruptive and chaotic immigration enforcement, and a government shutdown. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman are back for a new season of Respecting Religion to bring thoughtful conversations to these issues and more at the intersection of religion and the law. In the season 7 premiere, they focus on the current Supreme Court term, including a case with an egregious violation of a...
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Join us for season 7 of Respecting Religion
Respecting Religion
With attacks on the rule of law, the militarization of troops in American cities, and a new Supreme Court term starting up, there is no better time to tune in to Respecting Religion. Join Holly and Amanda as they return for a new season to share analysis, opportunities for action, and ways to make sense of issues at the intersection of religion and the law. Respecting Religion is available on your favorite podcasting platform, and now, for the first time, with video on YouTube! We'll see you on October 16 for the season 7 premiere of Respecting Religion! Subscribe today, and...
info_outlineA case with a thin record is raising plenty of questions at the Supreme Court. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the case of Mahmoud v. Taylor, which involves parents who want to opt their children out of public school curriculum they say conflicts with their religious beliefs. But, what’s the difference between expected exposure and unconstitutional coercion? Does age matter? What happens when opt-out options become too burdensome and overwhelming to accommodate? Amanda and Holly examine the issues in this case as well as the challenges for the school district and for the parents. They also share what the oral arguments revealed about the justices’ interest in the books and discussions outside of the courtroom.
SHOW NOTES
Segment 1 (starting at 01:50): Remembering Justice David Souter
Amanda and Holly released a live mini-episode on Tuesday, May 27, to review the Supreme Court decision in the religious charter school case, the voucher proposal in the budget reconciliation bill, and a court decision halting the dismantling of the Department of Education. Hear the episode at this link or in your podcast feed, or watch it on YouTube.
Amanda and Holly mention the other two church-state cases this term addressed in previous episodes:
- Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin in Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times
- Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond in Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools
BJC Executive Director Emeritus J. Brent Walker wrote a reflection piece on Justice David Souter when the justice retired in 2009: Walker reflects on Souter’s Supreme Court tenure
Amy Howe wrote a piece on Justice Souter for SCOTUSblog: David Souter, retired Supreme Court justice, dies at 85
Segment 2 (starting at 06:58): The facts (that we know) in the case and what’s at stake
BJC has a post on our website describing Mahmoud v. Taylor: In oral argument, U.S. Supreme Court wrestles with the limits of public school parents’ opt-out rights
The U.S. Supreme Court has a transcript of oral arguments and the audio recording of oral arguments in Mahmoud v. Taylor available on its website.
Segment 3 (starting 25:54): The two big substantive points from the oral argument
We played two clips from the oral argument in this segment:
- Justice Elena Kagan and Eric Baxter, who argued on behalf of the group of parents (the petitioners)
- Justice Samuel Alito and Eric Baxter
Amanda and Holly talked about the Texas Bible curriculum in episode 2 of this season: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools
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