Respecting Religion

What's at stake for faith freedom for all in our world today? Join the conversation on religion and the law, including the most significant cases concerning religion and religious liberty at the U.S. Supreme Court and the continuing impact of Christian nationalism. As lawyers and people of faith, BJC Executive Director Amanda Tyler and General Counsel Holly Hollman think these topics deserve respectful conversation -- something that we don’t always hear in the public square or our social media feeds.

S6, Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools 05/15/2025

S6, Ep. 14: The blockbuster SCOTUS case over religious charter schools The most consequential church-state case of this Supreme Court term involves whether the government could – or even must – fund religious charter schools. Amanda and Holly examine key moments in the oral arguments from Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond, playing clips from the courtroom and looking at how the justices may apply recent precedent to shape future law. As BJC noted in the brief we filed, if the government funds religious charter schools, it will drag our government deeper into questions it is unfit to answer on matters of doctrine and church composition. That’s not government neutrality toward religion – that’s religious preference repackaged as educational choice. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 01:53): Developments since our previous show Amanda and Holly talked about the Catholic Charities/Wisconsin case in episode 12: We released our episode with Melissa Rogers to coincide with the first 100 days of the Trump administration. It is episode 13 of season 6: President Donald Trump issued and he on the same day establishing the Religious Liberty Commission. The American Bar Association has a You can to read President Donald Trump’s proclamation on “Loyalty Day and Law Day.” The Respecting Religion podcast won a 2025 “Best in Class” award from the Religion Communicators Council’s DeRose-Hinkhouse Awards for our episode titled: “” from season 5. Segment 2 (starting at 09:51): Oral arguments in Oklahoma Statewide Charter School Board, et al. v. Drummond Holly mentioned this article from The Washington Post by Justin Jouvenal and Laura Meckler that provides an overview of the case: Holly and Amanda discussed these cases as they worked their way through the courts in episode 16 of season 5: BJC filed an amicus brief in Oklahoma v. Drummond, along with other Christian organizations as well as Jewish, Muslim and interfaith groups. . We played four clips in this segment from the oral arguments in Oklahoma v. Drummond. You can visit the Supreme Court’s website for a and an. Clip #1: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson & Solicitor General John Sauer Clip #2: Chief Justice John Roberts Clip #3: Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson Clip #4: Justice Elena Kagan & Michael McGinley Amanda and Holly mentioned three decisions authored by Chief Justice John Roberts that developed a new way of understanding the Free Exercise Clause. They are: (2017) (2020) (2022) Holly’s 2017 column on the Trinity Lutheran decision is titled “.” Segment 3 (starting 37:12): What do we expect? We played one clip from the oral argument in this segment: The opening statement of Greg Garre, who argued the case for the attorney general of Oklahoma. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/36577675

S6, Ep. 13: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good 04/30/2025

S6, Ep. 13: Active citizenship: A conversation with Melissa Rogers about promoting religious freedom and the common good Melissa Rogers joins the podcast for a conversation about how each of us can take steps to promote religious freedom and the common good in the United States today. After leading the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations, she shares her inside perspective on government, where we are right now, and how people can truly make an impact. Our religious freedom protects everyone’s right to bring their faith to the public square, and you won’t want to miss this conversation about opportunities we have as Americans to engage government at all levels and express ourselves in the face of injustice. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The genius of our constitutional protections for religious freedom Melissa Rogers served as the executive director of the White House Office of Faith-based and Neighborhood Partnerships in the Obama and Biden administrations. You can . She is the author of , published in 2019. She has been on two earlier BJC podcasts: Respecting Religion, S2, Ep. 06: (2020) The Dangers of Christian Nationalism series, episode 9: (2019), alongside Rabbi David Saperstein. You also can . NOTE: On April 21, we released a special podcast episode recorded at the same time as this conversation, focusing on the case of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law. Segment 2 (starting at 10:09): Our current moment as a country Here are links with more information from this portion of the conversation: Melissa discussed the work of the federal government to protect places of worship. is a helpful resource on this topic from the CISA (the Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency of the Department of Homeland Security). She also mentioned the Biden-Harris administration’s work on countering hate. One example is the United We Stand Summit in 2022: Taking Action to Prevent and Address Hate-Fueled Violence and Foster Unity. , or In addition, the Biden-Harris administration released the in 2023, and the U.S. National Strategy to in 2024. Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at . Segment 3 (starting 16:52): Practical ways to take action Here are a few resources and organizations to connect with if you are interested in responding to governmental actions, including by sharing information about their impact on you or your community: DOGE cuts: with the Center for American Progress Article published by The Century Foundation: by Mark Zuckerman, Julie Su, Lauren McFerran, Gayle Goldin, Rachel West, Chiquita Brooks-LaSure, Ruth Friedman, Carole Johnson, Viviann Anguiano, Kayla Patrick and Loredana Valtierra Information on various lawsuits challenging governmental actions: Melissa mentioned the lawsuit challenging the recission of the “sensitive locations” guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit , which is being led by . Another lawsuit on sensitive locations is also being pursued by a group led by . You can find more information about this and other pending lawsuits here: Resource on how to protect democracy: Interested in calling your congressional representatives about issues you care about? Here’s how you can find their contact information: Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/36373720

Special Episode: Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia and the rule of law 04/21/2025

S6, Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times 04/17/2025

S6, Ep. 12: Back to SCOTUS: Regular business in disturbing times There has been no shortage of news from all three branches of government in Washington, D.C., but one thing hasn’t changed: the U.S. Supreme Court continues to be interested in religious liberty cases. On today’s show, Amanda and Holly review the recent oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin, which focuses on a religious exemption in the state’s unemployment compensation laws. There are big questions being asked in this case, such as where one draws the lines, how can “religion” be defined, and what is meant – exactly – by the term “proselytization.” Plus, Holly and Amanda take a moment to step back and talk about the current attacks we are seeing on the rule of law in our country. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): Current state of the courts and various attacks on the rule of law There are three church-state cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term: Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (Oral arguments were March 31) Mahmoud v. Taylor (oral arguments will be April 22) Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond (oral arguments will be April 30) Segment 2 (starting at 08:00): Oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Visit the website of the U.S. Supreme Court and of the oral arguments in Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin. We played a clip from the oral arguments between Justice Neil Gorsuch and Colin Roth, who argued the case as the assistant attorney general for the state of Wisconsin. You can read the exchange beginning on page 81 . Holly and Amanda mentioned the 2021 case of Fulton v. Philadelphia. Read more . Read Amy Howe’s coverage of the Catholic Charities case for SCOTUSblog: Read Adam Liptak’s coverage for the New York Times: Segment 3 (starting 26:48): Decision thoughts and what’s ahead Amanda mentioned the upcoming Oklahoma v. Drummond case. BJC filed a brief in that case, and you can . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/36204845

S6, Ep. 11: African Americans and Religious Freedom 03/20/2025

S6, Ep. 11: African Americans and Religious Freedom African Americans’ knowledge traditions, religious practices, political cultures and ideas are rich resources that facilitate new concepts of religious freedom. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Dr. Sabrina E. Dent and Dr. Corey D. B. Walker join Amanda and Holly to discuss the book they co-edited, African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. It’s a collection of essays that provide novel interpretations of religious freedom informed by African American experiences, which are essential for a full public discourse about the topic. First released in the days before the January 6, 2021, attack on the Capitol, the second edition includes a new preface addressing the need for religious freedom to undergo a deep interrogation in our perilous times. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Introducing the book and the conversations it inspires Dr. Sabrina E. Dent is the director of the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation. Learn more about her . Dr. Corey D. B. Walker is the dean of the Wake Forest University School of Divinity, Wake Forest Professor of the Humanities, and director of the Program in African American Studies. Learn more about him . The second edition of is now available, free to all. Dr. Dent mentioned the religious freedom course with students from religious graduate schools at historically Black colleges and universities that began many of these conversations. Read about that in this 2019 article by Adelle Banks for Religion News Service: Learn more and read the text of David Walker’s Appeal to the Coloured Citizens of the World on the . The Columbia Law School Law, Rights & Religion Project released the Black Religious Liberty Curriculum in 2024. You can see the 12-part video series and access the curriculum . Segment 2 (starting at 18:51): Pushback and barriers to expanding the narrative You can or of the book African Americans and Religious Freedom. . Segment 3 (starting 31:01): The launch event on February 28 You can watch a recording of the Feb. 28 event celebrating the re-release of the book . The Rev. William Lamar IV talked with NPR about the ruling that gave his church the copyright of the Proud Boys. Learn more about the BJC Center for Faith, Justice and Reconciliation on our website at Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/35792565

S6, Ep. 10: March Madness: Department of Education, school vouchers, and a Supreme Court preview 03/13/2025

S6, Ep. 10: March Madness: Department of Education, school vouchers, and a Supreme Court preview Actions and rumors of actions in Washington, D.C., are continuing to dominate the news cycle and keep people on edge. On this episode of Respecting Religion, Amanda and Holly discuss the devastation of dismantling the Department of Education and the problematic push for a nationwide school voucher program. They also look at the latest in the battle between faith communities and the Trump administration to protect sensitive locations from immigration raids, and they preview the three religious liberty cases on the Supreme Court’s docket this term. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Federal school vouchers, shutting down the Department of Education, and a potential new travel ban Holly mentioned this story on the school voucher proposals by Laura Meckler for The Washington Post: If you want to contact your representatives in Washington about the trouble with school voucher programs, . Amanda mentioned this story from Inside Higher Education about potential plans to shut down the Department of Education: After we recorded this episode, the administration began gutting the Department of Education through layoffs instead of an executive order. Amanda released a statement calling it a “reckless move,” which. We also sent out an alert about the issue to the members of BJC’s email list, and it included a form they can use to contact their members of Congress about the problems with shutting down the Department of Education. . Sign up for BJC’s email updates for immediate alerts when there are ways to take action: The New York Times previews the possible new travel ban in this article: . BJC consistently called out the dangers of the travel ban during the first Trump administration, on Jan. 27, 2017. Segment 2 (starting at 16:26): Sensitive locations and calling on Congress to do their job There are two current lawsuits challenging the administration’s guidance on sensitive locations. In from Quaker congregations, a Sikh temple and the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, the judge issued an injunction on February 24 that blocks immigration officials from entering their houses of worship to conduct immigration enforcement operations. Holly mentioned a new bill in Congress called . You are invited to join Faithful Witness Wednesdays throughout the month of March, as people of faith gather on the Capitol grounds to call on Congress to take action. Sign up for or the Mach 26 events, which are organized by Sojourners and the Washington Interfaith Staff Community. Amanda spoke at the March 5 Faithful Witness Wednesday – you can and . Segment 3 (starting 25:35): Three religious liberty cases headed to SCOTUS Amanda and Holly mentioned the emergency order from the Supreme Court to re-start payments for aid work that had been completed. Read more in this story by Justin Jouvenal, Annie Gowen and Ann E. Marimow for The Washington Post: Amanda and Holly mentioned three religious liberty cases that the Supreme Court will hear this term: Catholic Charities Bureau v. Wisconsin Labor & Industry Review Commission (March 31) The consolidated cases of Oklahoma Virtual Charter School Board v. Drummond and St. Isidore of Seville Catholic Virtual School v. Drummond (April 30) Mahmoud v. Taylor (April 22) Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/35674040

S6, Ep. 09: Threats to religious freedom from the Trump administration and a look at the growing resistance 02/13/2025

S6, Ep. 09: Threats to religious freedom from the Trump administration and a look at the growing resistance In our second show of the second Trump administration, Amanda and Holly run through a list of recent events that point to a gross misunderstanding of what “religious freedom” means. They review the policy announcements made during the National Prayer Breakfast – including the creation of a task force to “eradicate anti-Christian bias” – and they look at how this administration’s accusations and actions are limiting the religious freedom of several Christian groups who serve others. They also discuss the growing resistance, including court challenges and two opportunities for action to share your views with Congress and the Trump administration. In the final segment, Amanda and Holly share how BJC is celebrating Black History Month with a special invitation. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): The National Prayer Breakfast and an anti-Chrisitan bias task force Listen to Amanda and Holly’s previous conversations on the National Prayer Breakfast in the following episodes: beginning at 28:44 into that first episode of this podcast series. , exploring the many questions it raises and how it differs from the National Day of Prayer. After the second event tied to the National Prayer Breakfast, President Trump released an and to the office. On the same day, he released an . Amanda posted her reaction to that action . In her , Amanda spoke about the need to acknowledge and address violence and rhetoric directed against religious minorities in the U.S. and abroad. Segment 2 (starting at 14:29): Executive order on education, lawsuits on immigration, and the rescinding of the sensitive locations memo President Trump released an executive order titled “” and BJC shared our concerns in a about how such an act would undermine religious freedom. The Cooperative Baptist Fellowship joined the lawsuit filed by Quaker congregations challenging the removal of the “sensitive locations” guidance as a violation of religious freedom protections under the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (RFRA). Read more about the lawsuit After we recorded this podcast, another lawsuit was filed by a number of religious denominations and organizations, including two supporting bodies of BJC: Fellowship Southwest and Convención Bautista Hispana de Texas. . Segment 3 (starting 24:10): Attacks on faith-based service providers and two opportunities for action For more on the comments from Elon Musk, Mike Flynn and Vice President JD Vance targeting religious groups, read this article by Michelle Boorstein for The Washington Post: “” is the title of the op-ed published by Religion News Service, written by Amanda alongside Aaron Dorfman from A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy and Jennifer Walker Thomas from Mormon Women for Ethical Government. TWO ACTION STEPS YOU CAN TAKE IN THIS TIME: calling on Congress and President Trump to provide necessary oversight to the Department of Government Efficiency, ensuring that the freedom for religious organizations to practice and honor their faith is not infringed upon by government action. It is organized by BJC, Mormon Women for Ethical Government, and A More Perfect Union: The Jewish Partnership for Democracy. to oppose House Resolution 59, which could condemn a sermon by Bishop Mariann Budde as a “distorted message.” No one has to agree with her message to oppose this resolution, which wrongly indicates that the government should decide what is acceptable in matters of religion. We have a simple form you can use to send your own message. We sent information about those two opportunities for action to people in our community who receive emails. If you would like to receive them, visit to sign up for our email list! Amanda and Holly discussed the U.S. v. Skrmetti case in . Segment 4 (starting 31:39): Celebrating Black History Month Throughout , BJC is sharing stories and insight on our and channels. Here are a few recent videos: INVITATION: You are invited to a special livestream event on Friday, February 28, which will re-launch the book African Americans and Religious Freedom: New Perspectives for Congregations and Communities. to learn more about the book and ! Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/35270465

S6, Ep. 08: Ten Commandments and Trump’s first week 01/30/2025

S6, Ep. 08: Ten Commandments and Trump’s first week In this week’s show, Amanda and Holly discuss the problems with government mandates to post the Ten Commandments in classrooms, focusing on a case out of Louisiana. BJC and other Christian groups filed a brief in that case to explain why, as Christians, we oppose the Louisiana law and how the government’s decision to choose a religious text to display in a public school setting not only cheapens our faith but also puts the government in a role it is not called to play. Plus, Amanda and Holly talk through President Donald Trump’s first week back in the White House, sharing where they saw concerning signs for religion and religious liberty. SHOW NOTESSegment 1 (starting at 00:38): President Trump’s first week back and backlash to a sermon Amanda and Holly talked about ways to handle a constant influx of news and the dangers of “God saved me” rhetoric when others died in the episode after the 2024 election: Amanda wrote a piece for Bloomberg Opinion about the backlash to Bishop Mariann Budde’s sermon at the service of unity and what it teaches us about religious freedom: Learn more about the two new religious liberty cases to be heard by the U.S. Supreme Court in this piece on our website: Amanda and Holly discussed the issues with religious charter schools in 2024: Read more about the lawsuit filed by a group of Quaker congregations opposing raids in churches on religious freedom grounds in this article by Bernie Pazanowski for Bloomberg Law: Segment 2 (starting at 14:21): Louisiana’s mandate to post the Ten Commandments in classrooms Read the brief from BJC and other Chrisitan groups in Roake v. Brumley . Learn more about the case in this post on our website: Holly and Amanda discussed the Kennedy v. Bremerton decision and its abandonment of the Lemon test in this episode in 2022: Holly and Amanda discussed the Ten Commandments on two episodes in 2023 when a bill was being discussed in Texas: Segment 3 (starting 29:53): Oral arguments and what’s next Hear last week’s oral arguments in this case at the 5th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/35082065

S6, Ep. 07: Jimmy Carter: Baptist, president, servant leader 01/16/2025

S6, Ep. 07: Jimmy Carter: Baptist, president, servant leader President Jimmy Carter introduced millions of people to what it means to be a Baptist. In this episode, Amanda and Holly reflect on what he meant to our country and to both of them, as fellow Baptists, as well as his impact on faith freedom for all. They share how he is a shining example of the diversity of Baptists in our country as well as what it looks like to live out one’s faith freely and fully without forcing it on others. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): A look back at the life of Jimmy Carter and his funeral service The New York Times has an extensive obituary on President Jimmy Carter, which you can read online: You can watch a recording of President Carter’s funeral on the YouTube channel of the Washington National Cathedral: Holly mentioned an article from The Washington Post titled “One chance to get this right, a look behind the prep for Carter’s funeral.” It is available online under the title “.” Holly mentioned speaking with Paul Baxley, the executive coordinator of the , who attended the service. CBF is the denominational home of President Carter’s church, . Segment 2 (starting at 12:41): Carter as a Baptist: Commitment, divisions, and the New Baptist Covenant Amanda’s piece honoring President Carter in TIME magazine is available online: Amanda read comments from President Carter in 1979, saying he thought the government should “stay out of the prayer business.” You can read the archived article on the website of The New York Times: Amanda was quoted during a conversation on Jimmy Carter’s faith between Jason DeRose and Ailsa Chang on NPR’s All Things Considered, which also included a quote from the Rev. Dr. Martin Marty in 1976: For more on the history of the New Baptist Covenant, read this 2022 story by Mark Wingfield for Baptist News Global: Amanda mentioned this story in The Washington Post about First Baptist Church of the City of Washington, D.C., which is the church where both she and President Carter were once members: Segment 3 (starting 24:26): Carter’s legacy and example for where we are today Amanda read President Carter’s comments from a 1977 press conference on the separation of church and state. You can read the transcript on the website of The New York Times: You can see the never-before-released video of Amanda and BJC Executive Director Emeritus Brent Walker honoring Jimmy Carter . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/34881385

S6, Ep. 06: Oral arguments in U.S. v. Skrmetti: Medical care for transgender youth and the Equal Protection Clause 12/19/2024

S6, Ep. 06: Oral arguments in U.S. v. Skrmetti: Medical care for transgender youth and the Equal Protection Clause A Supreme Court case on medical care for transgender youth could have major ramifications – not only for children who have gender dysphoria and their families but also for how other statutes are reviewed under the Equal Protection Clause. In this episode, Amanda and Holly examine the oral arguments in U.S. v. Skrmetti, breaking down key moments in the heated courtroom exchanges, examining the specific constitutional question in this case, and discussing the broader implications of the possible ruling. While the specific question in this case involves the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and not the Religion Clauses of the First Amendment, religion and religious arguments often loom large in cases that involve sexual orientation or gender identity. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): The stakes of Skrmetti and the specific question presented For more on the atmosphere surrounding the case, read this piece from Mark Walsh for SCOTUSblog: for more information on the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment. Segment 2 (starting at 07:17): The heated oral arguments The U.S. Supreme Court heard U.S. v. Skrmetti on Dec. 4, 2024. The Supreme Court’s website has links to or . We played four clips from the courtroom: The opening argument of Elizabeth Prelogar, Solicitor General of the United States (from 00:00:10 in the oral argument) A question and statement from Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (from 01:41:25 in the oral argument) The opening argument of Matthew Rice, Solicitor General for the state of Tennessee (from at 01:45:26 in the oral argument) An exchange between Matthew Rice and Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson (from 02:10:17 in the oral argument) Holly mentioned the Bostock v. Clayton County decision from 2020, which interpreted Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 to prohibit employment discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity. Holly and Amanda discussed the decision in episode 17 of season 1, titled “” Segment 3 (starting 39:57): Thank you to our listeners Our most-listened to episode in 2024 was episode 21 of season 5, titled “” Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. Your gift to BJC is tax-deductible, and you can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/34530490

S6, Ep. 05: Secularization and the fracturing of the American left w/ John Compton, Angela Parker, and David Gushee 12/05/2024

S6, Ep. 05: Secularization and the fracturing of the American left w/ John Compton, Angela Parker, and David Gushee Today’s episode brings you a special presentation on the politics of secularization, featuring a presentation from Dr. John Compton and responses from Rev. Dr. David Gushee and Rev. Dr. Angela Parker. Given the week after the 2024 presidential election, the lecture and responses explore how rising secularism contributes to the growth of political extremism, how flagging participation in faith traditions correlates to diminishing civic engagement, and the importance of taking a holistic approach to the various issues undermining democracy and dividing progressive movements. Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Today’s episode Dr. John Compton was the speaker for the 20th annual Walter B. and Kay W. Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State, presenting three lectures on the politics of secularization Nov. 13-14 on the campuses of Mercer University in Atlanta and Macon, Ga. To watch each of the three presentations in their entirety, click on the titles below: Lecture 1: Lecture 2: Lecture 3: (featured in this podcast, including responses from Rev. Dr. Parker and Rev. Dr. Gushee) You can also in BJC’s winter 2024 magazine, Report from the Capital. Segment 2 (starting at 03:18): Dr. John Compton A professor of political science and chair of the political science department at Chapman University in Orange, Calif., Dr. Compton’s lectures focused on the theme of the politics of secularization. Read more about Dr. Compton . Segment 3 (starting 36:13): Response from Rev. Dr. David Gushee Rev. Dr. David P. Gushee is Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics at Mercer University, Chair of Christian Social Ethics at Vrije Universiteit (“Free University”) Amsterdam, and Senior Research Fellow at the International Baptist Theological Study Centre. Learn more about him or on at Mercer University’s McAfee School of Theology. Segment 4 (starting 45:24): Response from Rev. Dr. Angela Parker Rev. Dr. Angela N. Parker is associate professor of New Testament and Greek at Mercer University’s McAfee School of Theology. In her research, Dr. Parker merges Womanist thought and postcolonial theory while reading biblical texts. Read more about Dr. Parker on . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/34301545

S6, Ep. 04: Election Day 2024: What happened and where do we go from here 11/21/2024

S6, Ep. 04: Election Day 2024: What happened and where do we go from here Now that Election Day 2024 is in the rearview mirror, what did we learn? Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at the results and what they might mean for our country and the protection of faith freedom for all. They discuss where we saw religion used on the campaign trail, what we might expect to see in the next four years under a second Trump administration, and ways all of us can make a significant difference in local communities. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Did Americans vote for authoritarianism when they voted for Trump? Holly mentioned being in Georgia after the elections for BJC’s Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and Separation of Church and State. You can learn more about the presentations from Dr. John Compton during that event, focused on the politics of secularization, on our website at . Amanda mentioned her current book tour for How to End Christian Nationalism. Her last stop in 2024 will be in Richmond, Va., this weekend, but she will be back on the road in 2025. Visit for details and ways to order the book. Segment 2 (starting at 13:42): Where did we see religion and Christian nationalism in the closing days of the campaign and its aftermath? to watch remarks from President-elect Donald Trump on election night, and to watch Vice President Kamala Harris’ concession speech on election night, both via C-SPAN. For more on the January 6 attack on the Capitol, read the report itiled “,” created by BJC and the Freedom From Religion Foundation. Amanda sent an email to the BJC community after the election. You can read it on Baptist News Global: If you want to receive emails from BJC, you can sign up on our website: Amanda mentioned being in Austin, Texas, on Monday to testify against the troubling Bible-infused curriculum proposed for Texas public schools. For the latest, read this article by Troy Closson for The New York Times: . Amanada and Holly discussed the issues with this curriculum in episode 2 of season 6: . We want to hear from you! If you want to connect us with an organization doing good work in your community, contact , BJC’s community partnership manager, at . An organization does not need to be devoted to countering Christian nationalism, even if that might be the outcome of the work they are doing. If you are in North Texas and want to get involved in the North Texas Organizing Project, contact at . Segment 3 (starting 32:51): Good news about school voucher initiatives Don Byrd wrote an article for BJC’s website about the rejection of school vouchers in Kentucky, Nebraska, and Colorado: For more discussion on the problems with school vouchers, listen to and of season 5. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/34078416

S6, Ep. 03: On the road with ‘How to End Christian Nationalism’ 11/07/2024

S6, Ep. 02: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools 10/31/2024

S6, Ep. 02: Oklahoma and Texas try to force Bible teaching in public schools We continue to see bold attempts by people who espouse Christian nationalism to influence our youngest population, and news this summer out of Oklahoma and Texas show two troubling examples. In this episode, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman talk about the edict from Ryan Walters in Oklahoma to mandate having the Bible in public schools – alongside our nation’s founding documents – and the new proposed curriculum in Texas that strangely uses religious beliefs as fact in lessons for students as young as kindergarten. Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): How does Christian nationalism impact public schools? BJC has several resources for issues at the intersection of religion in public schools. , including from BJC and classic resources that include and . Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at . Holly and Amanda discussed Christian nationalism in the public schools in . Segment 2 (starting at 05:39): Oklahoma created a Bible mandate … and you’ll never guess which Bible perfectly fit the requirements! (actually, you probably will guess immediately) Read the original edict from Ryan Walters , and read the guidance released later . Amanda and Holly read from this article by Jennifer Palmer, Paul Monies and Heather Warlickand for The Oklahoman: In October of this year, Oklahoma amended its requirement for Bibles in classrooms to no longer require the Bible to include U.S. historical documents. Read more in this article by Ken Miller for the Associated Press: Segment 3 (starting 21:32): Troubling Texas curriculum Amanda mentioned this article by By Linda Jacobson for The 74 which broke the story: Read more about the September day of action in Texas in this article from BJC’s Report from the Capital magazine: Amanda shares more about her experience with the curriculum in her column for the magazine: If you live in Texas, there is still time to contact your State Board of Education member about this troubling curriculum before their November vote. to find out who represents you, and scroll to the bottom of for tips on crafting your email. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/33705547

S6, Ep. 01: The Supreme Court is back … and so are we 10/17/2024

S6, Ep. 01: The Supreme Court is back … and so are we To kick off season 6 of Respecting Religion, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman take stock of the Supreme Court. There is no religion case on the docket – yet – for this term, but there are several cases that do impact religion. They review the most important things we saw out of last year’s term – from the “Trump docket” to the abortion cases – and they talk about how the Rahimi decision about a gun regulation illustrates the trouble with the Court’s new “history and tradition” test. Plus, this is the last episode before the release of Amanda’s book How to End Christian Nationalism, and they preview the upcoming book tour and how you can participate. Segment 1 (starting at 00:37): Back together after a tumultuous summer Amanda talked with Ava Kofman for her feature article in the New York Times Magazine: Amanda mentioned an article by Russell Gold for Texas Monthly, titled Segment 2 (starting at 08:02): The Supreme Court is back, but why are people still talking about the past term? Amanda and Holly mentioned the upcoming case of U.S. v. Skrmetti, which will examine gender-affirming care. They talked about previous cases involving the definition of “sex” in Episode 17 of season 1, titled “” Amanda and Holly discussed the intersection of religion and the law in the two abortion cases in Episode 28 of season 5, titled “.” Read Holly’s column in BJC’s fall magazine, which discusses the impact of the Rahimi case: Amanda and Holly discussed the Supreme Court’s obsession with history in the context of legislative prayer in the Greece v. Galloway decision in Episode 3 of season 5, titled “” Segment 3 (starting 37:37): Come see Amanda in a city near you! How to End Christian Nationalism is the new book by Amanda Tyler. It releases on October 22, and you can pre-order it now , your , or anywhere you buy books. Visit for more information on the book and on the book tour, which includes stops in California, Minnesota, Oklahoma, North Carolina, Virginia, Texas, and more. Learn more about BJC’s Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign at . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/33499357

S5, Ep. 30: Season finale 05/23/2024

S5, Ep. 30: Season finale As the weather heats up, so does the pace of Supreme Court decisions. On our season 5 finale of Respecting Religion, Amanda and Holly recap some recent decisions and discuss what we can expect in the next month. Religion is still at play in several cases, even if religious legal statutes aren’t the questions being considered. Plus, they look at some recent statements from Supreme Court justices during extracurricular activities and share what those reveal about the justices themselves and the work at the Court, including a rare – and surprising – statement one justice gave directly to the media. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:51): Recent Supreme Court actions Amanda and Holly discussed the two Supreme Court cases dealing with abortion rights in episode 28 of this season: to read the Washington Post article tracking big cases this Supreme Court term. The case upholding the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau (CFPB) is called Consumer Financial Protection Bureau v. Community Financial Services Association of America, Limited. Amanda and Holly mentioned two articles about it: Amy Howe’s piece for SCOTUSblog: Steve Vladeck’s piece for One First: The Louisiana voting map decision comes from the consolidated cases of Robinson v. Callais and Landry v. Callais. Read Amy Howe’s coverage for SCOTUSblog: Read Steve Vladeck’s piece for One First: Segment 2 (starting at 09:07): Justices on the stump: Shocking statements and unlikely pairings Amanda and Holly mentioned recent reporting on appearances by justices of the Supreme Court. The articles they referred to are: by Adam Liptak for The New York Times by Abbie VanSickle for The New York Times by Adam Liptak for The New York Times by Ann E. Marimow for The Washington Post According to reports discussed in this show, Justice Kavanaugh mentioned that the school prayer cases are settled law. School District of Abington Township v. Schempp (1963) and Engel v. Vitale (1962) are commonly called the “school prayer cases,” with the decisions in those cases finding government-sponsored religious exercises unconstitutional in public schools, providing protection for the religious liberty rights of all students. Learn more piece by Holly Hollman. Amanda and Holly discussed by Jodi Kantor that the American flag outside of Justice Samuel Alito’s home was flown upside down in the days before the inauguration of President Joe Biden. After we recorded this episode, new reporting revealed Justice Alito’s summer house displayed the “Appeal to Heaven” flag in 2023. Read more in this New York Times story by Jodi Kantor, Aric Toler, and Julie Tate: To watch the iCivics event featuring Justice Sonia Sotomayor and Justice Amy Coney Barrett, . Segment 3 (starting 26:58): A reading recommendation Amanda’s book is called How to End Christian Nationalism, and it will be released October 22 from Broadleaf Books. to pre-order the book. Learn more about the work of the Christians Against Christian Nationalism campaign by . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/31433117

S5, Ep. 29: LGBTQ rights and religious freedom 05/16/2024

S5, Ep. 29: LGBTQ rights and religious freedom LGBTQ rights and religious freedom are often pitted against one another, but they are not mutually exclusive. This episode of Respecting Religion looks at the recent decision by the United Methodist Church to repeal its ban on LGBTQ clergy and same-sex weddings as well as the broader conversation. Holly Hollman is joined by guest co-host Guthrie Graves-Fitzsimmons, BJC Communications Director. He shares some of his personal story, then he and Holly reflect on work bridging differences between LGBTQ rights advocacy and religious groups that oppose LGBTQ protections. They highlight the Respect for Marriage Act as one hallmark of bipartisan consensus building that achieves civil rights protections and safeguards religious liberty. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 1:23): The changing landscape of LGBTQ rights and religious freedom Learn more about Guthrie Graves-Fitzimmons . Find more resources on religious liberty and the LGBTQ community . For in-depth information about public opinion on LGBTQ rights among different religious groups, visit the Public Religion Research Institute’s website . Segment 2 (starting at 5:20): The United Methodist Church lifts ban on LGBTQ clergy Read coverage from Ruth Graham of The New York Times: : “Why United Methodists’ historic vote means so much to gay Christians like me.” Segment 3 (starting 16:33): Bridging differences Holly and Guthrie discussed the 2020 Brookings Institution report by E.J. Dionne Jr. and Melissa Rogers. Respecting Religion has devoted several episodes to the topics discussed in this episode. Listen to for more on the Respect for Marriage Act, for more on 303 Creative v. Elenis, and for more on Bostock v. Clayton County. Read more about BJC’s reaction to the Obergefell decision in 2015 in this column from Holly Hollman: . You can also access a with frequently asked questions about the decision. Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/31339647

S5, Ep. 28: Conscience protections in SCOTUS abortion cases 05/09/2024

S5, Ep. 28: Conscience protections in SCOTUS abortion cases How do religion and religious freedom arguments interact with cases about abortion access? The legal landscape here is beyond complex, and in this episode, Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at how conscience protections were discussed in two recent Supreme Court cases about abortion. There is a deepening religion and policy conversation in our country, and they discuss how that conversation is reflected in these oral arguments – from Church Amendments to the doctrine of preemption. SHOW NOTES Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): U.S. Food and Drug Administration v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine Amanda and Holly discussed state laws after the Dobbs decision two weeks ago – in episode 26 of season 5: Learn more about the Arizona legislature’s repeal of the 1864 law in this article by Stacey Barchenger and Ray Stern in the Arizona Republic: Learn more about the 6-week ban on abortions in Florida in this article by Stephanie Colombini for NPR: We played a series of clips from the oral arguments in U.S. Food and Drug Administration v. Alliance for Hippocratic Medicine, which the Supreme Court heard on March 26, 2024. You can hear the audio . The clips we played featured: Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar (from 00:00:48 into the arguments) Justice Brett Kavanaugh and Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar (from 00:28:31 into the arguments) Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Solicitor General Elizabeth Prelogar (from 00:29:11 into the argument) Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson and Attorney Erin Hawley (from 01:16:40 into the argument) Read an overview of conscience protections from the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Segment 2 (starting at 19:26): Moyle v. United States Moyle v. United States is a consolidated case with Idaho v. United States. “EMTALA” stands for “Emergency Medical Treatment and Labor Act.” Read what the American Medical Association says about the case and EMTALA . We played a series of clips from the oral arguments in Moyle v. United States, which the Supreme Court heard on April 24, 2024. You can hear the audio . The clips we played featured: Justice Elena Kagan and Attorney Joshua Turner (from 00:06:09 into the argument) Attorney Joshua Turner and Justice Elena Kagan (from 00:08:02 into the argument) Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Attorney Joshua Turner (from 00:23:54 into the argument) Justice Amy Coney Barrett and Attorney Joshua Turner (from 00:48:43 into the argument) Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/31213037

S5, Ep. 27: 100 episodes and 100,000 downloads 05/02/2024

S5, Ep. 26: Archaic laws and new theories emerge from state abortion debates 04/25/2024

S5, Ep. 25: The crisis in teaching constitutional law 04/18/2024

S5, Ep. 24: Race, religion and citizenship 04/11/2024

S5, Ep. 24: Race, religion and citizenship Hear excerpts from a special event we organized at the University of Southern California on race, religion and citizenship in this episode of Respecting Religion. The Rev. Dr. Joseph Evans and the Rev. Dr. Christopher The brought their unique experiences and expertise to a conversation on religious and racial identity, moderated by the Rev. Dr. Najuma Smith-Pollard. Hear their insights about a theology of democracy, their experiences with racism, how to identify authoritarianism, and what lessons Scripture has for our current climate. Segment 1 (starting at 00:35): The event on race, religion and citizenship The and the were the speakers for this year’s edition of our annual Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures, titled “Whose country is it anyway?” held April 2 on the campus of the University of Southern California. Their conversation was moderated by the Rev. . Click on each name to read more about them and their impressive credentials. Listen to the entire program . The event was in partnership with USC’s Office of Religious & Spiritual Life, the USC Center for Religion and Civic Culture, and Berkeley School of Theology. Learn more about BJC’s annual series at. Segment 2 (starting at 1:45): A theology of democracy, experiences of racism, and a new understanding of The New Colossus Rev. Dr. The mentioned “warmth of other suns,” giving credit to how Isabel Wilkerson uses the phrase. She is the author of the book . Rev. Dr. The mentioned “The New Colossus,” the poem by Emma Lazarus that is inscribed on a plaque in the pedestal of the Statue of Liberty. You can read it . Segment 3 (starting at 12:29): Authoritarianism and lessons from Scripture Rev. Dr. Evans mentioned Walter Wink, a theologian who discussed how power structures resist our need for transformation. Learn more about him in . Segment 4 (starting at 18:27): Politics and access to power Dr. Catherine Brekus delivered the 2023 Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lecture, which focused on the myth of American “chosenness.” Hear it in of season 4, and listen to the panel that followed it on . Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/30786053

S5, Ep. 23: The Bible doesn’t need Trump’s endorsement 04/04/2024

S5, Ep. 22: Spring break and religious holidays 03/28/2024

S5, Ep. 21: But … is it Christian nationalism? 03/21/2024

S5, Ep. 20: Attending the State of the Union 03/14/2024

S5, Ep. 19: Still smarting over Obergefell, Justice Alito calls for a new case 03/07/2024

S5, Ep. 18: A chief justice or chief theologian for Alabama? 02/29/2024

S5, Ep. 17: The presidency and Christian nationalism 02/22/2024

S5, Ep. 17: The presidency and Christian nationalism Presidents have made broad appeals to our country without dividing along religious belief throughout American history. Amanda Tyler and Holly Hollman look at presidential leadership and talk about how our country’s founding documents set up our system of government that does not create a “Christian nation” in any sort of legal sense – rather, it ensures freedom of religion and freedom from a state establishment of religion. They also talk about why people like to claim we are a “Christian nation” and the reasons that is a problematic statement. Segment 1 (starting at 00:38): Religious freedom at the founding Learn more about the celebration of the holiday known as Washington’s Birthday . Amanda and Holly mentioned this article by Peter Smith for the Associated Press: . He also wrote . Amanda mentioned a book she is writing that will come out later this year, which is titled . Watch Holly’s video answering the question “Is America a Christian nation?” . The Rev. Jennifer Hawks wrote this piece about Article VI for Baptist News Global: Amanda spoke with historian Steven Green in 2019 for this episode of our podcast series on the dangers of Christian nationalism: Michael Meyerson is the author of . You can read more about his 2014 lectures – given for the Walter B. and Kay W. Shurden Lectures on Religious Liberty and the Separation of Church and State – . The BJC Fellows Program is open to all young professionals interested in deepening their historical, legal and theological understanding of religious liberty. The deadline to apply for the 2024 class is March 1 – visit to learn more and apply. Segment 2 (starting at 24:21): Words from previous presidents to visit BJC’s website page with a few quotes from Founders, presidents, and Baptists about the relationship between church and state. The quotes include links or citations to the original source material. Segment 3 (starting at 33:20): What now? Respecting Religion is made possible by BJC’s generous donors. You can support these conversations . /episode/index/show/respectingreligion/id/30066918

S5, Ep. 16: The trouble with *religious* charter schools 02/15/2024

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