Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
Release Date: 09/16/2025
Ep. 257: Conversion therapy at the Supreme Court
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
FIRE’s Ronnie London and Conor Fitzpatrick join the show to discuss the Supreme Court’s oral argument in the conversion therapy case, the Pentagon’s new press rules, Indiana University’s censorship rampage, and where the situation stands with visa and green card holders who say things the feds don’t like. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Chiles v. Salazar, the conversion therapy case 30:03 The Pentagon’s new press rules 48:48 What the hell is going on at Indiana University? 55:38 Feds boot noncitizens for Charlie Kirk speech 01:05:02 Outro Enjoy listening to the...
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Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
We tackle ten common arguments against free speech. FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen are the co-authors of the new book, “War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—And Why They Fail.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:18 Book’s origins 04:25 Argument #1: Words are violence 20:27 Argument #2: Words are dangerous 25:09 Argument #3: Hate speech isn’t free speech 31:06 Argument #4: About shoutdowns 37:18 Argument #5: Free speech is outdated 45:41 Argument #6 Free speech is right-wing 50:14 Argument #7:...
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Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, “Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:17 Book origins 03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses 18:36 COVID’s impact for international students’ speech 22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation? 25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses 31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk 36:52 Sarah’s free speech inspirations: literature and people About the...
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Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel’s jokes? Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” to their stations. Joining us: , FCC Commissioner , FIRE General Counsel , FIRE Chief Counsel Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:46 What’s the FCC? 07:35 What’s the “public interest” standard? 14:20 What is the “fairness doctrine”? 25:21 What is the “broadcast hoax” rule? 28:55 What is “news distortion”? 35:31 Role...
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Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
FIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech" 02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"? 05:42 How have “hate speech” laws played out overseas? 07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's “hate speech” remarks 08:50 Are “fighting words,” “incitement,” and “true threats” free speech? 11:22 What about doxxing? 15:15...
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Ep. 252: America’s first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
We’re joined by award-winning author, , to discuss his book, . Slack focuses on the infamous , which sparked the first major controversy over freedom of speech in America. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro (including note about Charlie Kirk) 03:59 Book origins 12:05 What were the Alien and Sedition Acts? 16:00 Prosecutions under the Act and their free speech implications 25:35 Free speech during the Revolutionary era 28:14 Adams’ perspective on the Sedition Act 46:02 Was Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase a partisan hack? 53:57 Sedition Act fallout 01:01:02 Outro Read the transcript:...
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Ep. 251: Free speech and ‘the executive power’ with Advisory Opinions
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
What are the limits of presidential power? How many days has it been since President Trump’s TikTok ban moratorium went into place? What is the state of the conservative legal movement? And where did former FIRE president go on his first date? French and of the popular legal podcast “” join the show to answer these questions and discuss the few free speech issues where they disagree with FIRE. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:18 Origin story of “Advisory Opinions” 08:15 Disagreements between FIRE and AO 15:04 Why FIRE doesn’t editorialize on the content of speech 24:27 Limits of...
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Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
We know the First Amendment protects hate speech. But has it always done so? And how have civil rights groups responded when their members are the target of hate speech? University of Iowa Law Professor Samantha Barbas is the author of a new law review article, “.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:04 “The Birth of a Nation” movie controversy 12:44 Henry Ford’s anti-Semitic “Dearborn Independent” 22:41 American Jewish Committee’s “quarantining” solution 28:41 ACLU’s Eleanor Holmes Norton defending a racist in court 33:42 Racist Senate candidate J.B. Stoner 37:28 Neo-Nazis...
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Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
2025 has not been kind to Harvard. To date, the Trump administration , demanding violations of free speech, academic freedom, and institutional autonomy in return for restoring the funding. In response, Harvard , raising First Amendment claims. Helping us unpack all things Harvard are: , President Emeritus, professor (Harvard) & advisory council member (FIRE) , President & CEO (FIRE) Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:32 Harvard’s disputes with the Trump administration 08:29 The need for internal reforms at Harvard 42:50 Institutional neutrality debate 46:16 IHRA definition...
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Ep. 248: Commercial speech and the First Amendment
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
Imagine the government forcing you to label your all-natural milk product as “imitation.” Florida tried to make one dairy farm do just that, sparking a First Amendment question: Where’s the line between a business’s right to speak and protecting consumers from deception? In this episode, we explore how far free speech protections go for commercial speech with: , managing attorney (Institute for Justice) , chief counsel (FIRE) , Thomas M. Siebel senior fellow (Hoover Institution, Stanford) Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 05:03 What exactly is commercial speech? 08:25 The...
info_outlineFIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more.
Timestamps:
00:00 Intro
01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech"
02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"?
05:42 How have “hate speech” laws played out overseas?
07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's “hate speech” remarks
08:50 Are “fighting words,” “incitement,” and “true threats” free speech?
11:22 What about doxxing?
15:15 Is it free speech to celebrate or condone the assassination of Charlie Kirk?
21:52 The termination of k-12 and university faculty in response to their commentary on Kirk's assassination
28:40 Is there a law that might implicate the Discord users who had reason to be aware of malicious intentions the shooter had towards Kirk ahead of the assassination?
30:05 The agency of speakers and those hearing their speech under the incitement standard
31:14 What are the differences between the free speech rights of citizens and non-citizens?
36:20 Does a court filing by President Trump as an individual in the New York Times lawsuit open him up to being deposed about a wide range of behaviors and actions?
37:40 What is the Trump's administration's legal strategy with the New York Times lawsuit?
39:24 What is FIRE doing about private employees being fired for their political commentary?
46:50 What is Charlie Kirk's legacy on free speech?
50:04 What is the difference between the academic protections enjoyed by tenured and non-tenured faculty members?
52:05 Does FIRE trust the Supreme Court to protect free speech?
56:12 How can we prevent capitulation from The New York Times?
59:20 How can ordinary people safely express their opinions on social media and promote civil discourse?
Joining us:
Ronnie London, general counsel
Sarah McLaughlin, senior scholar, global expression
Aaron Terr, director of public advocacy