So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast
So to Speak: The Free Speech Podcast takes an uncensored look at the world of free expression through the law, philosophy, and stories that define your right to free speech. Hosted by FIRE's Nico Perrino. New episodes post every other Thursday.
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Ep. 271: Minecraft, censorship, and threats to press freedom with Clayton Weimers
04/30/2026
Ep. 271: Minecraft, censorship, and threats to press freedom with Clayton Weimers
Editorial note: This conversation was recorded on Friday, April 24, the day before the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. Both Nico and Clayton attended the event, where a gunman breached security and opened fire before being apprehended. No one was seriously injured, but the incident serves as a reminder of the threats reporters can face in the course of their work. Since we recorded the conversation before the shooting, Nico and Clayton do not address it, but the incident underscores the stakes of their discussion. — In 2020, Reporters Without Borders launched the Uncensored Library, a virtual archive housed inside Minecraft, the world’s most popular computer game. It preserves the work of journalists who have faced censorship, imprisonment, exile, or even death. In countries where their reporting is banned, Minecraft itself is not, making the library a digital sanctuary for suppressed journalism that millions can still access. In March 2026, the project added a United States wing, reminding Americans that subtler, less direct threats to a free press happen everywhere – even at home. With today’s release of the and World Press Freedom Day approaching on May 3, we’re unpacking the state of press freedom with Clayton Weimers, the executive director of . . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:41 The state of press freedom in the United States 10:51 Trump administration’s threats to press freedom 14:16 and 22:55 Who is to blame for distrust in media? 27:58 Viewpoint diversity in the newsroom 32:15 The modern media ecosystem 40:27 What is RSF? 47:00 Freelance and independent journalism 49:11 Clayton’s background and more on Reporters Without Borders 51:25 Inside the Uncensored Library 01:01:59 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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FIRE Reacts: Comey, Kimmel, ABC & the FCC
04/29/2026
FIRE Reacts: Comey, Kimmel, ABC & the FCC
We break down the legal case against James Comey over an alleged “true threat” and how far the government can go in prosecuting speech. Plus, we examine renewed FCC pressure on ABC and Jimmy Kimmel. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:57 Does the DOJ have a viable case against James Comey? 04:51 “True threats” and Comey’s case 06:36 Threats against U.S. presidents and Watts v. United States 09:55 Was it a mistake for Comey to take down the “8647” seashell image? 11:18 Can the case be dismissed before it goes to trial? 12:38 Can Comey’s case be considered a selective prosecution? 13:23 Is the process itself a punishment? 15:29 Could prosecutors face consequences for bringing this case? 18:07 Examples of true threats 20:35 “True threat” versus “incitement to imminent lawless action” 22:53 Is it still a “true threat” if charges come a year later? 24:32 Can Comey recover his legal fees? 25:34 Do threats become more real in the wake of other active threats? 26:32 Does the First Amendment differ for speech about the president? 30:06 What’s going on with the FCC and ABC? 34:20 What do NRA v. Vullo and the FCC’s calls to fire Jimmy Kimmel have in common? 35:17 Why does broadcast licensing exist in the internet age? 36:51 Have past presidents historically influenced broadcast licensing? 38:33 Is the Fairness Doctrine still in effect? 40:30 What can ABC do if the FCC takes away their licenses? 42:40 Will ABC fight back? 46:01 Has broadcast media regulation always been a frustration for 1A advocates? 49:20 Humphrey’s Executor & content-based regulation 50:58 Is the FCC independent from the executive branch? 51:45 The past 18 months of FCC action 52:15 Outro Joining us: Conor Fitzpatrick, supervising senior attorney Aaron Terr, director of public advocacy Bob Corn-Revere, chief counsel
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Ep. 270: The fight for privacy and free speech in the surveillance age
04/23/2026
Ep. 270: The fight for privacy and free speech in the surveillance age
The early internet opened unprecedented avenues for speech, creativity, and connection without traditional gatekeepers. But it also raised civil liberties questions: Do our offline freedoms exist online? And if so, how far do they extend? Today, those questions are more urgent than ever. Advances in AI have given governments powerful new tools to track, monitor, and analyze our behavior, raising fundamental concerns about the future of free expression in the digital age. Today we are joined by Cindy Cohn, the executive director for the . She has spent thirty years as a civil liberties attorney specializing in digital rights, which she documents in her newly published memoir . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 05:17 Why write this book now? 09:11 Does privacy make free speech possible? 14:52 Code as speech: Bernstein v. United States 33:34 The Patriot Act and government spying 51:09 National security letters and Section 702 57:57 Who is Tony Coppolino? 01:06:06 Why EFF left X 01:11:05 What’s next for Cindy 01:13:56 Outro . Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 269: Is free speech declining worldwide?
04/10/2026
Ep. 269: Is free speech declining worldwide?
Free speech has long been a cornerstone of democratic society. But today, its principles face increasing pressure. Around the world, governments are expanding speech restrictions in the name of combating misinformation, hate speech, and extremism, while new technologies make it easier to monitor and control public discourse. Many free speech advocates warn that these efforts risk eroding democracy itself. Joining the show to discuss this “global free speech recession” is Jacob Mchangama, a senior fellow at FIRE and the founder and executive director of The Future of Free Speech at Vanderbilt University, and Jeff Kosseff, a senior fellow at The Future of Free Speech. Their new book is “.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:07 Why write this book? 04:40 Where free speech stands in America today 05:53 What is a “global free speech recession”? 11:22 Free speech’s high point and what changed 18:56 Election misinformation, disinformation, and the role of AI 34:40 The EU’s Digital Services Act and the UK’s Online Safety Act 40:00 Are democracies starting to adopt more restrictive speech laws? 43:52 Solutions to reversing the free speech recession 52:25 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 268: News and misinformation in early America
04/03/2026
Ep. 268: News and misinformation in early America
In 18th century America, news traveled slowly across the Atlantic. Newspapers reprinted secondhand reports, private letters, and unverified stories from abroad, leaving readers with multiple versions of reality. In a world educated by an unverifiable news cycle, how did misinformation shape early American life? To explore how news, rumor, and misrepresentation influenced the course of the American Revolution and the nation that followed, we are joined by Jordan Taylor, a historian of American history and the author of . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:05 How colonists got their news 08:28 Why foreign news dominated early newspapers 17:33 How colonial newspapers verified information 22:32 Did miscommunication help spark the Revolution? 29:57 The XYZ Affair and the Sedition Act 39:21 The First Amendment’s original meaning 44:34 Current day parallels 55:41 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 267: Social media = cigarettes?
04/01/2026
Ep. 267: Social media = cigarettes?
In March, juries in California and New Mexico delivered seminal verdicts holding Meta and YouTube liable for failing to protect young users from harm. Both verdicts found that the companies were negligent in the design or operation of their platforms and that each company knew their platforms could be dangerous when used by a minor. The courts found that the design elements of the platforms could be separated from the content hosted on the platforms, thus removing the need to consider the First Amendment or Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act. Joining us to break down the rulings and their possible free speech implications is Mike Masnick, CEO & founder of Techdirt & the Copia Institute. Masnick is the author of “.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:29 Why these verdicts scare the hell out of Mike 10:34 Are social media algorithms “addictive”? 21:45 Did Meta fail to protect kids? 30:37 The First Amendment and Section 230 43:13 Is social media the new Big Tobacco? 55:15 The role of parents in social media use 59:04: Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 266: How foreign censors target American speakers
03/19/2026
Ep. 266: How foreign censors target American speakers
Governments around the world have increasingly sought to regulate online speech well beyond their borders. If global platforms are forced to comply with the world’s most restrictive laws, whose speech standards win? And what happens to a free and open internet when governments apply their censorship rules across borders? Today we are joined by Preston Byrne, an attorney and expert in international law and emerging technologies. He has spent nearly two decades working at the intersection of law, tech, and policy, and he now serves as counsel to a coalition of internet publishing platforms suing the United Kingdom’s internet regulator. Follow him on and . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:15Preston’s background 16:46 What do foreign censorship laws actually target? 22:35 The UK’s Online Safety Act 29:39 Free speech cultures: US vs. UK 40:48 The GRANITE Act and protecting Americans from foreign censorship 1:01:15 Outro Don’t miss the free speech event of the year! Get your tickets and learn more about the Soapbox Conference . . Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 265: Anthropic, age verification laws, and press freedom
03/11/2026
Ep. 265: Anthropic, age verification laws, and press freedom
Several stories have put government power over speech and technology back in the spotlight. In this episode, we break down the Pentagon’s targeting of the AI company Anthropic, the push for government-mandated age verification technologies, and the Department of Justice’s raid on a Washington Post reporter’s home. We are joined by: Jennifer Huddleston, senior fellow in technology policy at the Cato Institute Mike Godwin, AI and privacy expert, first staff counsel at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, first full-time general counsel at Wikimedia, and author of two books on internet law and policy Greg Lukianoff, president and CEO of FIRE Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:19 The Pentagon vs. Anthropic? 22:40 The FTC, Congress, and age verification laws 48:15 Is it unusual for the DOJ to seize a reporter’s computer? 59:46 Outro Don’t miss the free speech event of the year! Get your tickets and learn more about the Soapbox Conference . Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 264: Anonymity from the founding to the digital age
02/25/2026
Ep. 264: Anonymity from the founding to the digital age
In the years leading up to the American Revolution, newspapers and pamphlets overflowed with essays signed “Publius,” “Brutus,” and “A Farmer.” Those arguments helped shape a nation, but the authors’ real names were nowhere to be found. Americans have long relied on anonymous speech to challenge the powerful, protect dissenters, and keep the focus on ideas rather than identities. That tradition has endured into America’s digital age, even as anonymous speech has become more controversial. To explore America’s history with anonymity, we are joined by Jeff Kosseff, a nonresident senior legal fellow at The Future of Free Speech and author of . Preorder his forthcoming book, . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:01 What is anonymity? 04:38 Anonymous speech in Colonial America 15:58 Does the First Amendment protect anonymity? 20:35 Anonymous speech in the Civil Rights Era 31:17 The internet and anonymity 35:44 Modern anonymity debates: DHS subpoenas, age verification, social media regulation, and VPN bans 51:53 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 263: Free speech in Trump 2.0
02/02/2026
Ep. 263: Free speech in Trump 2.0
One year into Trump 2.0, we examine the administration’s record on free speech and how it compares to the president’s campaign pledge to “bring back free speech to America.” We also discuss recent ICE protests, including the right to carry a gun and to film law enforcement, and what these encounters reveal about protest rights today. Today we are joined by: Clark Neily, senior vice president for legal studies at the Cato Institute Timothy Zick, professor of government and citizenship at William & Mary Law School and author of the new book Conor Fitzpatrick, supervising senior attorney at FIRE Zick is also the author of , , and . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:47 ICE protests: , filming police, and the right to carry a gun 13:30 How to hold law enforcement accountable 19:10 ’s arrest 23:27 Trump’s retribution politics and the “domestic terrorist” label 35:05 FCC pressure and attacks on the media 39:40 Free speech for noncitizens 53:49 Attacks on higher education 58:40 Trump 1.0 vs. Trump 2.0 01:02:25 What reforms are needed? 1:09:13 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 262: Escaping Iran
01/22/2026
Ep. 262: Escaping Iran
Recent protests in Iran have drawn renewed attention to dissent under the country’s authoritarian government. The demonstrations have been met with mass arrests, internet restrictions, and even accusations of murder. While large-scale demonstrations appear to have subsided for now, from Iran describes a tense calm, a heightened security presence, and widespread “disappointment and disillusionment” among Iranians. Today we are joined by Pouya Nikmand, an Iranian-born writer who escaped Iran at 18. He writes about how his experiences have shaped his understanding of expression, freedom, and belonging on his Substack, . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:17 What’s happening in Iran now? 10:47 What does life look like under an authoritarian regime? 20:33 Growing up in Iran 24:48 The influence of Western media in Iran 32:55 Escaping Iran 37:05 Life after escape 40:55 Being trafficked to Poland 54:45 Escaping captivity and coming to America 01:01:53 An immigrant’s perspective on US immigration 1:07:24 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 261: Thomas Paine’s rise and fall
01/15/2026
Ep. 261: Thomas Paine’s rise and fall
Thomas Paine arrived in America in 1774 with little to his name and a long record of personal failure behind him. Within a year, he wrote Common Sense, one of the most influential political pamphlets in history, helping to ignite the American Revolution and catapulting Paine into the American history hall of fame. But by the end of his life, he was widely reviled, politically isolated, and personally abandoned. Once celebrated as the voice of liberty, he died an outcast, mourned by only six people at his funeral. How does one man become the voice of the American Revolution and end up forgotten? To explore Paine’s complicated legacy, we are joined by Richard Bell, professor of history at the University of Maryland and author of . Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:41 Thomas Paine’s early life 10:32 Paine’s arrival in America 20:02 What did Paine argue in Common Sense? 25:11 Why Common Sense was so revolutionary 36:31 The American Crisis and the Revolutionary War 41:35 Why Paine returned to London and wrote The Rights of Man 49:19 Exile from Britain, imprisonment in France, and writing The Age of Reason 01:01:27 Why America turned its back on Paine 01:12:09 Paine’s final days 01:18:50 How should we understand Paine’s legacy today? 01:26:58 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 260: Remembering ‘free-thinking’ writer Nat Hentoff
12/19/2025
Ep. 260: Remembering ‘free-thinking’ writer Nat Hentoff
On January 7, 2017, The Associated Press announced that “Free-thinking author and columnist Nat Hentoff is dead at 91.” For well over 60 years, Hentoff was a one of America’s foremost public intellectuals and a familiar byline to free speech advocates and jazz aficionados. The First Amendment was a way of life for Nat Hentoff. He would have been 100 years old this year. To reflect on his life and legacy, we are joined by his son Nick Hentoff and filmmaker David Lewis, whose 2013 documentary, “,” explored Nat Hentoff’s embodiment of free expression as the defining characteristic of the individual. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 00:52 Who was Nat Hentoff 03:48 Nat’s early life & influences 18:20 Jazz, writing, & finding his voice 31:24 Free speech as a way of being 35:15 Being out of step: Controversy, courage, and consequences 41:56 Rage, compassion, & moral clarity 51:53 Nat Hentoff’s legacy of dissent 55:20 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions
12/10/2025
Ep. 259: FIRE answers your questions
Changes at the Pentagon, Charlie Kirk and cancel culture, free speech and misinformation, globalized censorship, Indiana University, how to support FIRE, and more! Timestamps: 00:00 Introductions 02:11 What is the Press Clause, and who does it apply to? 05:53 FIRE’s position on Oklahoma student grading incident 08:50 What does FIRE need from besides financial support? 15:59 and what they mean 19:44 What is the latest on the ? 22:08 What is FIRE’s view on the ? 24:50 What is the value of small donations? How can FIRE supporters volunteer? 29:21 Indiana University is good at football but 33:46 Are courts trending in a more speech-protective direction? 37:05 Charlie Kirk and cancel culture 39:20 Pro- and anti-Zionist speech and “hostile environment” harassment 43:48 Is “globalize the intifada” incitement? 45:07 How does FIRE distinguish between free speech and misinformation? 47:54 Can FIRE help supporters start ? 48:55 Free speech, artificial intelligence, and copyright/trademarks 51:51 The sordid legacy of 53:22 Staying hopeful amidst so much hypocrisy 55:32 Global speech platforms and censorship 58:14 Differences between FIRE and the ACLU? 59:34 Does FIRE have a Substack? (, , ) 1:00:03 Closing remarks. Joining us: Alisha Glennon, chief operating officer Nico Perrino, executive vice president Greg Lukianoff, president and ceo Will Creeley, legal director Become a paid subscriber today to receive invitations to future live webinars. If you became a FIRE Member through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 258: Donor disclosure and campaign finance at SCOTUS
11/25/2025
Ep. 258: Donor disclosure and campaign finance at SCOTUS
The Institute for Free Speech’s Bradley Smith and Brett Nolan join the show to discuss two upcoming Supreme Court arguments involving donor disclosure (First Choice Women’s Resource Centers, Inc. v. Platkin) and political party contributions to candidates (National Republican Senatorial Committee v. FEC). The conversation also explores the broader landscape for political speech and campaign regulation, what legal battles may be next for the Supreme Court, and how both guests found their way into First Amendment advocacy. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:32 02:39 Personal paths into free speech work 05:10 32:08 51:50 What’s next for campaign finance at SCOTUS? 54:58 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 257: Conversion therapy at the Supreme Court
11/13/2025
Ep. 257: Conversion therapy at the Supreme Court
FIRE’s Ronnie London and Conor Fitzpatrick join the show to discuss the Supreme Court’s oral argument in the conversion therapy case, the Pentagon’s new press rules, Indiana University’s censorship rampage, and where the situation stands with visa and green card holders who say things the feds don’t like. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:19 Chiles v. Salazar, the conversion therapy case 30:03 The Pentagon’s new press rules 48:48 What the hell is going on at Indiana University? 55:38 Feds boot noncitizens for Charlie Kirk speech 01:05:02 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today () and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech
10/30/2025
Ep. 256: Ten arguments against free speech
We tackle ten common arguments against free speech. FIRE President and CEO Greg Lukianoff and FIRE Senior Fellow and former ACLU President Nadine Strossen are the co-authors of the new book, “War on Words: 10 Arguments Against Free Speech—And Why They Fail.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:18 Book’s origins 04:25 Argument #1: Words are violence 20:27 Argument #2: Words are dangerous 25:09 Argument #3: Hate speech isn’t free speech 31:06 Argument #4: About shoutdowns 37:18 Argument #5: Free speech is outdated 45:41 Argument #6 Free speech is right-wing 50:14 Argument #7: About that crowded theater and marketplace of ideas 59:27 Argument #9: Misinformation and disinformation 01:03:53 Argument #8: Free speech protects power 01:09:30 Argument #10: About the Holocaust and Rwandan genocide 01:13:35 Outro Get the Book:Purchase Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today () and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy
10/15/2025
Ep. 255: Authoritarians in the Academy
FIRE Senior Scholar Sarah McLaughlin discusses her new book, “Authoritarians in the Academy: How the Internationalization of Higher Education and Borderless Censorship Threaten Free Speech.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:17 Book origins 03:38 How China censored speech on American campuses 18:36 COVID’s impact for international students’ speech 22:05 What is sensitivity exploitation? 25:35 Free speech at international satellite campuses 31:28 Attempted deportations of Mahmoud Khalil and Rümeysa Öztürk 36:52 Sarah’s free speech inspirations: literature and people About the Guest: Learn more about and her work. Get the Book: Purchase . Read the transcript here: Enjoy listening to the podcast? Donate to FIRE today () and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?
09/30/2025
Ep. 254: What is going on with the FCC?
What is the Federal Communications Commission, and why does its chairman think the agency can regulate Jimmy Kimmel’s jokes? Note: Shortly after recording this episode, Nexstar and Sinclair announced they would return “Jimmy Kimmel Live!” to their stations. Joining us: , FCC Commissioner , FIRE General Counsel , FIRE Chief Counsel Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:46 What’s the FCC? 07:35 What’s the “public interest” standard? 14:20 What is the “fairness doctrine”? 25:21 What is the “broadcast hoax” rule? 28:55 What is “news distortion”? 35:31 Role of network affiliates 41:15 What happens now? Read the transcript here: Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?
09/16/2025
Ep. 253: Pam Bondi says hate speech is not free speech — is she right?
FIRE staff also take your questions on Charlie Kirk's assassination, President Trump's lawsuit against The New York Times, cancel culture, and more. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:42 Attorney General Pam Bondi's comments that "hate speech" is distinct from "free speech" 02:23 Is it OK for the Department of Justice to target people for "hate speech"? 05:42 How have “hate speech” laws played out overseas? 07:19 President Trump's response to Pam Bondi's “hate speech” remarks 08:50 Are “fighting words,” “incitement,” and “true threats” free speech? 11:22 What about doxxing? 15:15 Is it free speech to celebrate or condone the assassination of Charlie Kirk? 21:52 The termination of k-12 and university faculty in response to their commentary on Kirk's assassination 28:40 Is there a law that might implicate the Discord users who had reason to be aware of malicious intentions the shooter had towards Kirk ahead of the assassination? 30:05 The agency of speakers and those hearing their speech under the incitement standard 31:14 What are the differences between the free speech rights of citizens and non-citizens? 36:20 Does a court filing by President Trump as an individual in the New York Times lawsuit open him up to being deposed about a wide range of behaviors and actions? 37:40 What is the Trump's administration's legal strategy with the New York Times lawsuit? 39:24 What is FIRE doing about private employees being fired for their political commentary? 46:50 What is Charlie Kirk's legacy on free speech? 50:04 What is the difference between the academic protections enjoyed by tenured and non-tenured faculty members? 52:05 Does FIRE trust the Supreme Court to protect free speech? 56:12 How can we prevent capitulation from The New York Times? 59:20 How can ordinary people safely express their opinions on social media and promote civil discourse? Joining us: Ronnie London, general counsel Sarah McLaughlin, senior scholar, global expression Aaron Terr, director of public advocacy
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Ep. 252: America’s first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798
09/15/2025
Ep. 252: America’s first free speech crisis — the Sedition Act of 1798
We’re joined by award-winning author, , to discuss his book, . Slack focuses on the infamous , which sparked the first major controversy over freedom of speech in America. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro (including note about Charlie Kirk) 03:59 Book origins 12:05 What were the Alien and Sedition Acts? 16:00 Prosecutions under the Act and their free speech implications 25:35 Free speech during the Revolutionary era 28:14 Adams’ perspective on the Sedition Act 46:02 Was Supreme Court Justice Samuel Chase a partisan hack? 53:57 Sedition Act fallout 01:01:02 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 251: Free speech and ‘the executive power’ with Advisory Opinions
09/04/2025
Ep. 251: Free speech and ‘the executive power’ with Advisory Opinions
What are the limits of presidential power? How many days has it been since President Trump’s TikTok ban moratorium went into place? What is the state of the conservative legal movement? And where did former FIRE president go on his first date? French and of the popular legal podcast “” join the show to answer these questions and discuss the few free speech issues where they disagree with FIRE. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:18 Origin story of “Advisory Opinions” 08:15 Disagreements between FIRE and AO 15:04 Why FIRE doesn’t editorialize on the content of speech 24:27 Limits of presidential power 43:30 Free speech, the dread of tyrants 51:01 The prosecution of political figures 58:01 Cracker Barrel 01:00:09 State of the conservative legal movement Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email .
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Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment
08/28/2025
Ep. 250: Civil rights, hate speech, and the First Amendment
We know the First Amendment protects hate speech. But has it always done so? And how have civil rights groups responded when their members are the target of hate speech? University of Iowa Law Professor Samantha Barbas is the author of a new law review article, “.” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 04:04 “The Birth of a Nation” movie controversy 12:44 Henry Ford’s anti-Semitic “Dearborn Independent” 22:41 American Jewish Committee’s “quarantining” solution 28:41 ACLU’s Eleanor Holmes Norton defending a racist in court 33:42 Racist Senate candidate J.B. Stoner 37:28 Neo-Nazis and Skokie 47:20 Why are college students afraid of saying “the wrong thing?” 52:31 Barbas’ favorite free speech literature 53:15 Barbas’ free speech hero Read the transcript here: . Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email . Show notes: (Barbas’ previous So to Speak appearance, July 29, 2021)
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Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers
08/12/2025
Ep. 249: FIRE Reacts — Where does Harvard go from here? With Larry Summers
2025 has not been kind to Harvard. To date, the Trump administration , demanding violations of free speech, academic freedom, and institutional autonomy in return for restoring the funding. In response, Harvard , raising First Amendment claims. Helping us unpack all things Harvard are: Larry Summers, President Emeritus, professor (Harvard) & advisory council member (FIRE) , President & CEO (FIRE) Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:32 Harvard’s disputes with the Trump administration 08:29 The need for internal reforms at Harvard 42:50 Institutional neutrality debate 46:16 IHRA definition of anti-Semitism 01:01:28 Latest update on potential Harvard-Trump administration settlement Read the transcript here: Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email . Show notes: by Greg Lukianoff & Nadine Strossen (2025)
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Ep. 248: Commercial speech and the First Amendment
08/06/2025
Ep. 248: Commercial speech and the First Amendment
Imagine the government forcing you to label your all-natural milk product as “imitation.” Florida tried to make one dairy farm do just that, sparking a First Amendment question: Where’s the line between a business’s right to speak and protecting consumers from deception? In this episode, we explore how far free speech protections go for commercial speech with: , managing attorney (Institute for Justice) , chief counsel (FIRE) , Thomas M. Siebel senior fellow (Hoover Institution, Stanford) Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 05:03 What exactly is commercial speech? 08:25 The evolution of commercial speech law 13:59 Early regulation of commercial speech 23:03 What is false or misleading commercial speech? 26:04 Controversial regulations of non-misleading commercial speech 37:35 Future of commercial speech regulations Read the transcript: Coming up: Live episode of So To Speak On Monday, August 11th at 4 p.m. Eastern Time, Nico will be speaking with former Treasury Secretary/Harvard University president, Larry Summers, and FIRE President/CEO, . They will discuss the Trump administration's campaign against elite universities, including Harvard, what outcomes we can expect from that campaign, and what those outcomes might mean for free speech, academic freedom, and university independence. Register for the livestream here: . Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email . Show notes: FIRE (2025) “” So to Speak repost via X
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Ep. 247: Justin Amash
07/24/2025
Ep. 247: Justin Amash
Throughout his career, former Congressman has been a strong advocate for freedom of speech, writing that “The value of free speech comes from encountering views that are unorthodox, uncommon, or unaccepted…Free speech is a barren concept if people are limited to expressing views already widely held.” In this special live episode, filmed in front of 200+ high schoolers attending FIRE’s Free Speech Forum at American University in Washington, D.C., Amash takes questions from the audience and discusses his upbringing, his political career, the state of American politics, and how the Constitution guided his work in Congress. Earlier this year, Congressman Amash FIRE’s Advisory Council. Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:30 Upbringing 06:21 Law school 13:15 Time in Congress 15:59 Why Amash publicly explained each of his votes 26:30 On being the first libertarian in Congress 30:57 Connection between his principles and free speech 33:10 Trump’s first impeachment 42:48 Dealing with pushback from constituents 46:03 Term limits for members of Congress? 55:25 How high schoolers can pursue a career in politics 59:45 Has there been a regression in First Amendment protections? 01:07:32 What Amash is up to now 01:08:06 Outro Read the transcript here: Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org.
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Ep. 246: Tech check — AI moratorium, Character AI lawsuit, FTC, Digital Services Act, and FSC v. Paxton
07/10/2025
Ep. 246: Tech check — AI moratorium, Character AI lawsuit, FTC, Digital Services Act, and FSC v. Paxton
We’re checking in on the latest news in tech and free speech. We cover the state AI regulation moratorium that failed in Congress, the ongoing Character A.I. lawsuit, the Federal Trade Commission’s consent decree with Omnicom and Interpublic Group, the European Union’s Digital Services Act, and what comes next after the Supreme Court’s Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton decision. Guests: — lead counsel for tech policy, FIRE — internet policy counsel, TechFreedom Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 02:38 State AI regulation moratorium fails in Congress 20:04 Character AI lawsuit 41:10 FTC, Omnicom x IPG merger, and Media Matters 56:09 Digital Services Act 01:02:43 FSC v. Paxton decision 01:10:49 Outro Read the transcript here: Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: “” Paul Sherman (2025) United States District Court (2025) FIRE (2025) “” Daphne Kelly (2021) “” FTC (2025)
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Ep. 245: The Supreme Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton
06/27/2025
Ep. 245: The Supreme Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton
FIRE staff responds to the Court's decision in Free Speech Coalition v. Paxton that addresses a Texas law requiring age verification for accessing certain sexual material online. Joining us: — Legal director — Chief counsel — General counsel Timestamps: 01:21 How the case wound up at the Supreme Court 06:57 Bob’s experience with arguing strict scrutiny in the courts 09:32 Ronnie’s perspective on the ruling 10:22 Brick + mortar stores vs. online sites 12:07 Has the Court established a new category of partially protected speech? 13:36 What speech is still subject to strict scrutiny after the ruling? 15:55 What does it mean to address the “work as a whole” in the internet context? 17:24 What modifications to the ruling, if any, would have satisfied FIRE? 18:06 What are the alternatives to address the internet’s risks toward minors? 20:16 For non-lawyer Americans, what is the best normative argument against the ruling? 22:38 Why is this ruling a “canary in the coal mine?” 23:36 How is age verification really about identity verification? 24:42 Why did the Court assume the need to protect children without citing any scientific findings in its ruling? 26:17 Does the ruling allow for more identity-based access barriers to lawful online speech? 28:04 Will Americans have to show ID to get into a public library? 29:30 Why does stare decisis seem to mean little to nothing to the Court? 32:08 Will there be a problem with selective enforcement of content-based restrictions on speech? 34:12 Could the ruling spark a patchwork of state laws that create digital borders? 36:26 Is there any other instance where the Court has used intermediate scrutiny in a First Amendment case? 37:29 Is the Court going to keep sweeping content-based statutes in the “incidental effect on speech” bucket? 38:14 Is sexual speech considered obscene? 40:33 How does the ruling affect adult content on mainstream social media platforms like Reddit and X? 43:27 Where does the ruling leave us on age verification laws? Read the transcript here: Show notes: - Supreme Court ruling: - FIRE statement on FSC v. Paxton ruling: - FIRE’s brief for the Fifth Circuit: - FIRE’s amicus brief in support of petitioners and reversal:
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Ep. 244: Censoring lawmakers, T-shirts, and seashells
06/05/2025
Ep. 244: Censoring lawmakers, T-shirts, and seashells
We discuss the Supreme Court backing Maine lawmaker Laurel Libby, NPR filing suit against Trump, a years-long dispute over a student wearing a “there are only two genders” shirt, the Secret Service investigation into James Comey, the latest on Harvard vs. Trump, and more. Guests: — chief counsel, FIRE — former senior counsel, Ballard Spahr Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 03:34 Censure of Rep. Libby 07:02 Supreme Court shadow docket 13:53 NPR lawsuit against Trump admin 19:07 Differences between NPR and Voice of America cases 30:50 Middle school student wearing “there are only two genders” shirt 48:54 Recent investigation into former FBI Director James Comey 55:46 Latest updates with Harvard and Trump 01:05:27 Outro Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: Lee Levine’s previous appearance on the show (2018) “” NBC (2025) “” NPR (2025) “” The White House (2025) Justia (2024) FIRE (1969) “” The New York Times (2025) “” Alan Garber (2025) (2025)
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Ep. 243: Heather Mac Donald on Trump and free speech
05/22/2025
Ep. 243: Heather Mac Donald on Trump and free speech
Heather Mac Donald discusses the Trump administration’s free speech record amidst its battles with higher ed, mainstream media, law firms, and more. Mac Donald is Thomas W. Smith Fellow at the Manhattan Institute. Her most recent book is “” Timestamps: 00:00 Intro 01:54 Mac Donald’s personal experience with being shouted down 05:34 Amy Wax, Carole Hooven, and other cancelled professors 11:04 Mac Donald’s support and concern on Trump’s free speech approach 23:41 Rümeysa Öztürk situation 32:08 The problems of campus bureaucracy 36:40 Trump’s executive orders on law firms 43:14 Trump’s attacks on AP News, CBS, ABC, Paramount, and other media companies 59:54 Outro . Enjoy listening to the podcast? and get exclusive content like member webinars, special episodes, and more. If you became a through a donation to FIRE at and would like access to Substack’s paid subscriber podcast feed, please email sotospeak@thefire.org. Show notes: “” (2025) Heather Mac Donald “” (2025) President Trump via Truth Social “” (2025) U.S. Department of State “” (2025) The New York Times “” (2024) Straight Arrow News
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