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Will CISOs Have to Choose Between Getting Rich or Going to Jail?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

Release Date: 10/17/2023

World on the Brink with Dmitri Alperovitch show art World on the Brink with Dmitri Alperovitch

The Cyberlaw Podcast

Okay, yes, I promised to take a hiatus after episode 500. Yet here it is a week later, and I'm releasing episode 501. Here's my excuse. I read and liked Dmitri Alperovitch's book, "World on the Brink: How America Can Beat China in the Race for the 21st Century."  I told him I wanted to do an interview about it. Then the interview got pushed into late April because that's when the book is actually coming out. So sue me. I'm back on hiatus. The conversation  in the episode begins with Dmitri's background in cybersecurity and geopolitics, beginning with his emigration from the Soviet...

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Who’s the Bigger Cybersecurity Risk – Microsoft or Open Source? show art Who’s the Bigger Cybersecurity Risk – Microsoft or Open Source?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

There’s a whiff of Auld Lang Syne about episode 500 of the Cyberlaw Podcast, since after this it will be going on hiatus for some time and maybe forever. (Okay, there will be an interview with Dmitri Alperovich about his forthcoming book, but the news commentary is done for now.) Perhaps it’s appropriate, then, for our two lead stories to revive a theme from the 90s – who’s better, Microsoft or Linux? Sadly for both, the current debate is over who’s worse, at least for cybersecurity.   Microsoft’s sins against cybersecurity are laid bare in , Paul Rosenzweig reports. ...

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Taking AI Existential Risk Seriously show art Taking AI Existential Risk Seriously

The Cyberlaw Podcast

This episode is notable not just for cyberlaw commentary, but for its imminent disappearance from these pages and from podcast playlists everywhere.  Having promised to take stock of the podcast when it reached episode 500, I’ve decided that I, the podcast, and the listeners all deserve a break.  So I’ll be taking one after the next episode.  No final decisions have been made, so don’t delete your subscription, but don’t expect a new episode any time soon.  It’s been a great run, from the dawn of the podcast age, through the ad-fueled podcast boom, which I...

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The Fourth Antitrust Shoe Drops, on Apple This Time show art The Fourth Antitrust Shoe Drops, on Apple This Time

The Cyberlaw Podcast

The Biden administration has been aggressively pursuing antitrust cases against Silicon Valley giants like Amazon, Google, and Facebook. This week it was Apple’s turn. The Justice Department (joined by several state AGs)  filed a accusing Apple of improperly monopolizing the market for “performance smartphones.” The market definition will be a weakness for the government throughout the case, but the complaint does a good job of identifying ways in which Apple has built a moat around its business without an obvious benefit for its customers.  The complaint focuses on Apple’s...

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Social Speech and the Supreme Court show art Social Speech and the Supreme Court

The Cyberlaw Podcast

The Supreme Court is getting a heavy serving of first amendment social media cases. Gus Hurwitz covers two that made the news last week. In the , Justice Barrett spoke for a unanimous court in spelling out the very factbound rules that determine when a public official may use a platform’s tools to suppress critics posting on his or her social media page.  Gus and I agree that this might mean a lot of litigation, unless public officials wise up and simply follow the Court’s broad hint: If you don’t want your page to be treated as official, simply say up top that it isn’t official....

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Preventing Sales of Personal Data to Adversary Nations show art Preventing Sales of Personal Data to Adversary Nations

The Cyberlaw Podcast

This bonus episode of the Cyberlaw Podcast focuses on the national security implications of sensitive personal information. Sales of personal data have been largely unregulated as the growth of adtech has turned personal data into a widely traded commodity. This, in turn, has produced a variety of policy proposals – comprehensive privacy regulation, a weird proposal from Sen. Wyden (D-OR) to ensure that the US governments cannot buy such data while China and Russia can, and most recently an Executive Order to prohibit or restrict commercial transactions affording China, Russia, and...

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The National Cybersecurity Strategy – How Does it Look After a Year? show art The National Cybersecurity Strategy – How Does it Look After a Year?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

Kemba Walden and Stewart revisit the National Cybersecurity Strategy a year later. Sultan Meghji examines the ransomware attack on Change Healthcare and its consequences. Brandon Pugh reminds us that even large companies like Google are not immune to having their intellectual property stolen. The group conducts a thorough analysis of a "public option" model for AI development. Brandon discusses the latest developments in personal data and child online protection. Lastly, Stewart inquires about Kemba's new position at Paladin Global Institute, following her departure from the role of Acting...

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Regulating personal data for national security show art Regulating personal data for national security

The Cyberlaw Podcast

The United States is in the process of rolling out a for personal data transfers. But the rulemaking is getting limited attention because it targets transfers to our rivals in the new Cold War – China, Russia, and their allies. old office is drafting the rules, explains the history of the initiative, which stems from endless Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States efforts to impose such controls on a company-by-company basis. Now, with an as the foundation, the Department of Justice has published an that promises what could be years of slow-motion regulation. Faced with a...

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Are AI models learning to generalize? show art Are AI models learning to generalize?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

We begin this episode with describing major progress in conversions. Amazon flagged its new model as having “emergent” capabilities in handling what had been serious problems – things like speaking with emotion, or conveying foreign phrases. The key is the size of the training set, but Amazon was able to spot the point at which more data led to unexpected skills. This leads Paul and me to speculate that training AI models to perform certain tasks eventually leads the model to learn “generalization” of its skills. If so, the more we train AI on a variety of tasks – chat,...

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Death, Taxes, and Data Regulation show art Death, Taxes, and Data Regulation

The Cyberlaw Podcast

On the latest episode of The Cyberlaw Podcast, guest host Brian Fleming, along with panelists and discuss the latest U.S. government efforts to protect sensitive personal data, including the and the restricting certain bulk sensitive data flows to China and other countries of concern. Nate and Brian then discuss before the April expiration and debate what to make of a recent . Gus and Jane then talk about the , as well as , in an effort to understand some broader difficulties facing internet-based ad and subscription revenue models. Nate considers the implications of in its war against...

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More Episodes

This episode of the Cyberlaw Podcast delves into a False Claims Act lawsuit against Penn State University by a former CIO to one of its research units. The lawsuit alleges that Penn State faked security documents in filings with the Defense Department. Because it’s a so-called qui tam case, Tyler Evans explains, the plaintiff could recover a portion of any funds repaid by Penn State. If the employee was complicit in a scheme to mislead DoD, the False Claims Act isn’t limited to civil cases like this one; the Justice Department can pursue criminal sanctions too–although Tyler notes that, so far, Justice has been slow to take that step.

In other news, Jeffery Atik and I try to make sense of a New York Times story about Chinese bitcoin miners setting up shop near a Microsoft data center and a DoD base. The reporter seems sure that the Chinese miners are doing something suspicious, but it’s not clear exactly what the problem is.

California Governor Gavin Newsom (D) is widely believed to be positioning himself for a Presidential run, maybe as early as next year. In that effort, he’s been able to milk the Sacramento Effect, in which California adopts legislation that more or less requires the country to follow its lead. One such law is the DELETE (Data Elimination and Limiting Extensive Tracking and Exchange) Act, which, Jim Dempsey reports, would require all data brokers to delete the personal data of anyone who makes a request to a centralized California agency. This will be bad news for most data brokers, and good news for the biggest digital ad companies like Google and Amazon, since those companies acquire their data directly from their customers and not through purchase. 

Another California law that could have similar national impact bans social media from “aiding or abetting” child abuse. This framing is borrowed from FOSTA (Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act)/SESTA (Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act), a federal law that prohibited aiding and abetting sex trafficking and led to the demise of sex classified ads and the publications they supported around the country. 

I cover the overdetermined collapse of EPA’s effort to impose cybersecurity regulation on the nation’s water systems. I predict we won’t see an improvement in water system cybersecurity without new legislation.

Justin lays out how badly the Senate is fracturing over regulation of AI. Jeffery and I puzzle over the Commerce Department’s decision to allow South Korean DRAM makers to keep using U.S. technology in their Chinese foundries. 

Jim lays out the unedifying history of Congressional and administration efforts to bring a hammer down on TikTok while Jeffery evaluates the prospects for Utah’s lawsuit against TikTok based on a claim that the  app has a harmful impact on children. 

Finally, in what looks like good news about AI transparency, Jeffery covers Anthropic’s research showing that–sometimes–it’s possible to identify the features that an AI model is relying upon, showing how the model weights features like law talk or reliance on spreadsheet data. It’s a long way from there to understanding how the model makes its recommendations, but Anthropic thinks we’ve moved from needing more science to needing more engineering. 

Download 477th Episode (mp3)

You can subscribe to The Cyberlaw Podcast using iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Pocket Casts, or our RSS feed. As always, The Cyberlaw Podcast is open to feedback. Be sure to engage with @stewartbaker on Twitter. Send your questions, comments, and suggestions for topics or interviewees to [email protected]. Remember: If your suggested guest appears on the show, we will send you a highly coveted Cyberlaw Podcast mug! The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not reflect the opinions of their institutions, clients, friends, families, or pets.