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Making the Rubble Bounce in Montana

The Cyberlaw Podcast

Release Date: 12/05/2023

World on the Brink with Dmitri Alperovitch show art World on the Brink with Dmitri Alperovitch

The Cyberlaw Podcast

Okay, yes, I promised to take a hiatus after episode 500. Yet here it is a week later, and I'm releasing episode 501. Here's my excuse. I read and liked Dmitri Alperovitch's book, "World on the Brink: How America Can Beat China in the Race for the 21st Century."  I told him I wanted to do an interview about it. Then the interview got pushed into late April because that's when the book is actually coming out. So sue me. I'm back on hiatus. The conversation  in the episode begins with Dmitri's background in cybersecurity and geopolitics, beginning with his emigration from the Soviet...

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Who’s the Bigger Cybersecurity Risk – Microsoft or Open Source? show art Who’s the Bigger Cybersecurity Risk – Microsoft or Open Source?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

There’s a whiff of Auld Lang Syne about episode 500 of the Cyberlaw Podcast, since after this it will be going on hiatus for some time and maybe forever. (Okay, there will be an interview with Dmitri Alperovich about his forthcoming book, but the news commentary is done for now.) Perhaps it’s appropriate, then, for our two lead stories to revive a theme from the 90s – who’s better, Microsoft or Linux? Sadly for both, the current debate is over who’s worse, at least for cybersecurity.   Microsoft’s sins against cybersecurity are laid bare in , Paul Rosenzweig reports. ...

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Taking AI Existential Risk Seriously show art Taking AI Existential Risk Seriously

The Cyberlaw Podcast

This episode is notable not just for cyberlaw commentary, but for its imminent disappearance from these pages and from podcast playlists everywhere.  Having promised to take stock of the podcast when it reached episode 500, I’ve decided that I, the podcast, and the listeners all deserve a break.  So I’ll be taking one after the next episode.  No final decisions have been made, so don’t delete your subscription, but don’t expect a new episode any time soon.  It’s been a great run, from the dawn of the podcast age, through the ad-fueled podcast boom, which I...

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The Fourth Antitrust Shoe Drops, on Apple This Time show art The Fourth Antitrust Shoe Drops, on Apple This Time

The Cyberlaw Podcast

The Biden administration has been aggressively pursuing antitrust cases against Silicon Valley giants like Amazon, Google, and Facebook. This week it was Apple’s turn. The Justice Department (joined by several state AGs)  filed a accusing Apple of improperly monopolizing the market for “performance smartphones.” The market definition will be a weakness for the government throughout the case, but the complaint does a good job of identifying ways in which Apple has built a moat around its business without an obvious benefit for its customers.  The complaint focuses on Apple’s...

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Social Speech and the Supreme Court show art Social Speech and the Supreme Court

The Cyberlaw Podcast

The Supreme Court is getting a heavy serving of first amendment social media cases. Gus Hurwitz covers two that made the news last week. In the , Justice Barrett spoke for a unanimous court in spelling out the very factbound rules that determine when a public official may use a platform’s tools to suppress critics posting on his or her social media page.  Gus and I agree that this might mean a lot of litigation, unless public officials wise up and simply follow the Court’s broad hint: If you don’t want your page to be treated as official, simply say up top that it isn’t official....

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Preventing Sales of Personal Data to Adversary Nations show art Preventing Sales of Personal Data to Adversary Nations

The Cyberlaw Podcast

This bonus episode of the Cyberlaw Podcast focuses on the national security implications of sensitive personal information. Sales of personal data have been largely unregulated as the growth of adtech has turned personal data into a widely traded commodity. This, in turn, has produced a variety of policy proposals – comprehensive privacy regulation, a weird proposal from Sen. Wyden (D-OR) to ensure that the US governments cannot buy such data while China and Russia can, and most recently an Executive Order to prohibit or restrict commercial transactions affording China, Russia, and...

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The National Cybersecurity Strategy – How Does it Look After a Year? show art The National Cybersecurity Strategy – How Does it Look After a Year?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

Kemba Walden and Stewart revisit the National Cybersecurity Strategy a year later. Sultan Meghji examines the ransomware attack on Change Healthcare and its consequences. Brandon Pugh reminds us that even large companies like Google are not immune to having their intellectual property stolen. The group conducts a thorough analysis of a "public option" model for AI development. Brandon discusses the latest developments in personal data and child online protection. Lastly, Stewart inquires about Kemba's new position at Paladin Global Institute, following her departure from the role of Acting...

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Regulating personal data for national security show art Regulating personal data for national security

The Cyberlaw Podcast

The United States is in the process of rolling out a for personal data transfers. But the rulemaking is getting limited attention because it targets transfers to our rivals in the new Cold War – China, Russia, and their allies. old office is drafting the rules, explains the history of the initiative, which stems from endless Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States efforts to impose such controls on a company-by-company basis. Now, with an as the foundation, the Department of Justice has published an that promises what could be years of slow-motion regulation. Faced with a...

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Are AI models learning to generalize? show art Are AI models learning to generalize?

The Cyberlaw Podcast

We begin this episode with describing major progress in conversions. Amazon flagged its new model as having “emergent” capabilities in handling what had been serious problems – things like speaking with emotion, or conveying foreign phrases. The key is the size of the training set, but Amazon was able to spot the point at which more data led to unexpected skills. This leads Paul and me to speculate that training AI models to perform certain tasks eventually leads the model to learn “generalization” of its skills. If so, the more we train AI on a variety of tasks – chat,...

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Death, Taxes, and Data Regulation show art Death, Taxes, and Data Regulation

The Cyberlaw Podcast

On the latest episode of The Cyberlaw Podcast, guest host Brian Fleming, along with panelists and discuss the latest U.S. government efforts to protect sensitive personal data, including the and the restricting certain bulk sensitive data flows to China and other countries of concern. Nate and Brian then discuss before the April expiration and debate what to make of a recent . Gus and Jane then talk about the , as well as , in an effort to understand some broader difficulties facing internet-based ad and subscription revenue models. Nate considers the implications of in its war against...

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More Episodes

In this episode, Paul Stephan lays out the reasoning behind U.S. District Judge Donald W. Molloy’s decision enjoining Montana’s ban on TikTok. There are some plausible reasons for such an injunction, and the court adopts them. There are also less plausible and redundant grounds for an injunction, and the court adopts those as well. Asked to predict the future course of the litigation, Paul demurs. It will all depend, he thinks, on how the Supreme Court begins to sort out social media and the first amendment in the upcoming term. In the meantime, watch for bouncing rubble in the District of Montana courthouse. (Grudging credit for the graphics goes to Bing’s Image Creator, which refused to create the image until I attributed the bouncing rubble to a gas explosion. Way to discredit trust and safety, Bing!)

Jane Bambauer and Paul also help me make sense of the litigation between Meta and the FTC over children’s privacy and previous consent decrees. A recent judicial decision opened the door for the FTC to pursue modification of a prior FTC order – on the surprising ground that the order had not been incorporated into a judicial order. But that decision simply gave Meta a chance to make an existential constitutional challenge to the FTC’s fundamental organization, a challenge that Paul thinks the Supreme Court is bound to take seriously.

Maury Shenk and Paul analyze an “AI security by design” set of principles drafted by the U.K. and adopted by an ad hoc group of nations that pointedly split the EU’s membership and pulled in parts of the Global South. As diplomacy, it was a coup. As security policy, it’s mostly unsurprising. I complain that there’s little reason for special security rules to protect users of AI, since the threats are largely unformed, with Maury Pushing Back. What governments really seem to want is not security for users but  security from users, a paradigm that totally diverges from the direction of technology policy in past decades.

Maury, who requested listener comments on, his recent AI research, notes Meta’s divergent view on open source AI technology and offers his take on why the company’s path might be different from Google’s or Microsoft’s.

Jane and I are in accord in dissing California’s aggressive new AI rules, which appear to demand public notices every time a company uses spreadsheets containing personal data to make a business decision. I call it the most toxic fount of unanticipated tech liability since Illinois’s Biometric Information Privacy Act.

Maury, Jane and I explore the surprisingly complicated questions raised by Meta’s decision to offer an ad-free service for around $10 a month.

We explore what Paul calls the decline of global trade interdependence and the rise of a new mercantilism. Two cases in point: the U.S. decision not to trust the Saudis as partners in restricting China’s AI ambitions and China’s weirdly self-defeating announcement that it intends to be an unreliable source of graphite exports to the United States in future.

Jane and I puzzle over a rare and remarkable conservative victory in tech policy: the collapse of Biden administration efforts to warn social media about foreign election meddling. 

Finally, in quick hits,

  • I cover the latest effort to extend section 702 of FISA, if only for a short time.

  • Jane notes the difficulty faced by: Meta in trying to boot pedophiles off its platforms.

  • Maury and I predict that the EU’s IoT vulnerability reporting requirements will raise the cost of IoT.

  • I comment on the Canadian government’s deal with Google implementing the Online News Act

Download 484th Episode (mp3)

You can subscribe to The Cyberlaw Podcast using iTunes, Google Play, Spotify, Pocket Casts, or our RSS feed. As always, The Cyberlaw Podcast is open to feedback. Be sure to engage with @stewartbaker on Twitter. Send your questions, comments, and suggestions for topics or interviewees to [email protected]. Remember: If your suggested guest appears on the show, we will send you a highly coveted Cyberlaw Podcast mug! The views expressed in this podcast are those of the speakers and do not reflect the opinions of their institutions, clients, friends, families, or pets.