260: Myths, Groups & Outdoor Mental Health: Brant Evans on Ancient Wisdom in Modern Therapy
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Release Date: 02/04/2025
262: The Evolution of Outdoor Therapy Research: Dr. Tucker & Dr. Norton on the Outdoor Research Collaborative for Health, Wellbeing, and Experiential Engagement
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this episode Will talks with Dr. Anita Tucker and Dr. Christine Norton about the transformation of the Outdoor Behavioral Healthcare Research Center into the newly established at the University of New Hampshire. The ORC's mission is to expand research efforts beyond wilderness therapy to encompass a wider array of outdoor-based mental health interventions, including community-based programs, trauma-informed practices, and experiential engagement. Dr. Tucker and Dr. Norton explain how the ORC is creating a more inclusive research environment by incorporating diverse voices, including former...
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261: Can AI Be Your Outdoor Therapist? A Real-World Experiment in Mental Health & Nature
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
Want to listen to an outdoor therapy session? In this episode Will embarks on a personal experiment inspired by Reid Hoffman’s new book, Superagency. After reading about AI’s potential role in mental health, Will decided to test whether an AI chatbot could function as a real-time outdoor mental health counselor. While hiking and skiing in the backcountry, he engaged in a structured conversations with an AI therapist he named “Diane,” trained in cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) and recorded it. The session provided insights into processing emotions, adjusting to life...
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260: Myths, Groups & Outdoor Mental Health: Brant Evans on Ancient Wisdom in Modern Therapy
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
What can ancient myths teach us about group dynamics, leadership, and mental health? In this episode Will sits down with Brant Evans (pen name Brant Elwood), co-author of , to explore how timeless stories offer powerful insights into modern therapy and leadership. Drawing from his experiences as a wilderness therapy field guide, an executive director in recovery programs, and now a therapeutic consultant at , Brant shares how archetypal narratives help us understand the unconscious forces shaping group behavior. Will and Brant discuss the evolving landscape of wilderness therapy, the impact of...
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259: The Stop Institutional Child Abuse Act: What It Means for Outdoor Behavioral Health
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this Will speaks with Derek Daley, the incoming president of the National Association of Therapeutic Schools and Programs (NATSAP), about the transformative implications of the Stop Institutional Child Abuse Act (SICAA) for outdoor behavioral health. This federal legislation focuses on increasing oversight, transparency, and accountability within youth treatment programs, aiming to establish national standards for ethical care and safety. Daley explains that the next two years will involve data collection and evaluation to guide future regulations, with NATSAP actively engaging policymakers...
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258: From Survival Skills to Life Skills: John Tobias on Red Cedar Transitions
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this episode Will talks with John Tobias, founder of Red Cedar Transitions. John shares his journey from working at Boulder Outdoor Survival School to Aspen Achievement Academy and other wilderness therapy programs to establishing in Asheville, North Carolina. He discusses the evolution of his career, blending wilderness therapy, coaching, and psychotherapy, and highlights the flexibility and individualized approach of Red Cedar’s community-based model. John emphasizes the importance of supporting young adults as they navigate transitions, providing them with tools for independence while...
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256: Inside Elements: New Models, Neurodiverse Focus, and the Future of Wilderness Therapy
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this episode Will talks with John Karren, co-founder of . John reflects on how Elements has evolved over its 17-year history, moving from a strictly nomadic wilderness model to more flexible, tailored programs, including a new “Eclipse” option designed for neurodiverse adolescents. He explains the behind-the-scenes decisions that led them to integrate adventure activities, introduce heated tents, and adopt family-centric approaches, all while maintaining a commitment to the transformative power of the outdoors. John also discusses the critical role of collaboration with partners and...
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255: Hell Camp: Teen Nightmare – Exploring Wilderness Therapy’s Complicated Past
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this special episode Will takes a deep dive into the Netflix documentary Hell Camp: Teen Nightmare, which explores the infamous Challenger Foundation—a adolescent wilderness therapy program in the late 1980s that became a cautionary tale of abuse and unethical practices. Will reflects on the emotional impact of the film, the human cost of profit-driven models, and the ripple effects of Challenger’s abusive culture on the broader field of wilderness therapy. Drawing on his extensive research and writings, he examines how the program's legacy continues to shape the evolution of ethical...
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254: From Wilderness to Evolution: How True North Transformed Its Therapeutic Model
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this episode Will reconnects with Mod Barefoot Maves, who last appeared on the podcast just before the pandemic in February 2020. Mod shares the remarkable evolution of the Vermont-based program formerly known as True North Wilderness, which recently changed its name to . She discusses the thoughtful, incremental shift away from a nomadic wilderness therapy to a fully residential model, as well as the decision to focus solely on serving young adults rather than adolescents. Mod explains how this evolution reflects the changing needs and preferences of their clients, who increasingly seek...
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253: Navigating Change in Wilderness Therapy: Insights from Andrew Taylor
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this episode Will reconnects with Andrew Taylor, founder of in Costa Rica and the podcast's very first guest in 2018. Andrew shares the significant developments at Pure Life over the past six years, including how the COVID-19 pandemic forced a one-year suspension of operations due to Costa Rica closing its borders. This pause led to transformative changes such as enhanced pre-program communication with students, the introduction of academic credits, and the expansion to include adolescent groups. Andrew emphasizes the importance of informed consent and willingness among participants,...
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252: After Open Sky: How Danny Frazer is Shaping the Future with Gain the Ridge
Stories from the Field: Mental Health and the Outdoors
In this episode Will engages in a profound conversation with Danny Frazer, co-founder of the former Open Sky Wilderness Therapy program and founder of . Danny shares his journey into the field of wilderness therapy, beginning as an intern at Galena Ridge and progressing to roles at Aspen Achievement Academy. He reflects on the audacious vision that led to the founding of Open Sky in 2006, highlighting how they integrated innovative practices like yoga, meditation, naturopathic medicine, and extensive family involvement—elements that were revolutionary at the time. Danny discusses his...
info_outlineWhat can ancient myths teach us about group dynamics, leadership, and mental health? In this episode Will sits down with Brant Evans (pen name Brant Elwood), co-author of Gods, Heroes, and Groups, to explore how timeless stories offer powerful insights into modern therapy and leadership. Drawing from his experiences as a wilderness therapy field guide, an executive director in recovery programs, and now a therapeutic consultant at Stucker, Smith, and Weatherly, Brant shares how archetypal narratives help us understand the unconscious forces shaping group behavior.
Will and Brant discuss the evolving landscape of wilderness therapy, the impact of social media on mental health treatment, and how lessons from mythology can guide therapists, leaders, and individuals in navigating complex interpersonal dynamics. Whether you're a clinician, a leader, or simply interested in the intersection of psychology and storytelling, this episode provides a fascinating look at how ancient wisdom remains deeply relevant today.
Brant’s book, God’s, Heroes, and Groups is available on Amazon.
Our podcast underwriter is White Mountain Adventure Institute-(WMAI.org)