Choosing the Right Financial Advisor | Part One: Work with Someone You Trust
Release Date: 03/30/2023
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Hello and
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welcome to unfiltered Finance. I'm your host Tom romano.
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And thank you for joining us this episode today. We
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are talking about choosing the right financial advisor and
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I have the perfect guests for this topic
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joining us here today first and foremost Mike
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store who is a senior Regional director
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at symmetry Partners. I asked Mike to be
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on the podcast because he works with thousands of financial advisors across
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the country. He knows which ones
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are doing the appropriate job and due diligence and
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planning for their clients and the others who might be dare. I
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say fake it Mike faking it and of
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course a long time friend of mine Mr. Peter loponis
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who's a certified financial planner and financial advisor
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with Apollo wealth and happens to be
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my personal financial planner. So gentlemen, thank you both for joining
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us here today. You're welcome, Tom. Thanks Tom. Great to be here. I thought
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this was appropriate topic for us to discuss.
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you know coming out of the pandemic I travel a
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lot for business and I've been on many planes
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over the last few months and you know, whether it's an
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airport or
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Are sitting next to someone on a plane and just bring
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up some small talk and people understand
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that I'm working in the financial services a business.
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And the first question. I always get is got any
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tips. What should I be buying? What
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should I be selling? Right? It's a very common question and for
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years, my response has always been and I'm
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a firm believer of this is the best advice I can give anyone in
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that moment is to work with
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someone you trust financial planner financial
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advisor that's working in a fiduciary capacity. I
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have a number of reasons why I say that but
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Mike I'd love to hear it from your perspective. Why should
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investors people planning for
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retirement or for any other Financial need be working
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with a financial professional? That's a great question.
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I think you hit on it at the in your opening
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remarks Tom is that
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You know.
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Having traveled the country for many
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years working with a number of different types of advisors and meeting
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with clients at the same time, you know clients have
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different desperate needs in terms of when it
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comes to financial Financial advice so they can
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certainly learn about it on on a website if they
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want to but I found that especially the
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best advisors are working working with
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clients and from that
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perspective. I know who these advisors are.
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And I know they're doing a great job for their clients. And for me,
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the one thing that comes to mind besides everything
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else at a financial advisor does because I think about it in
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my own world is comfort and peace of mind, right? There's lots
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of different moving Parts when it comes to planning.
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And and what you're going to do with your money for the long term and even myself
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being in this business, I worry about am I making
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the right decisions? So I think a lot of it comes down
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to peace of mind and comfort. I think that that's high
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level. There's a lot of you can drill down from there
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but I think for most clients if you think about it, it's getting that
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pressure off of you and bringing a
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professional and to make sure that you're meeting your life goals, whatever those might
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be sure. No, absolutely. I think what I'm hearing you say, I
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hear things like planning and long-term and Peter
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I'll shift over to you. So
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what I'm hearing Mike say and I loved for you to plan
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on this when someone asks me got any tips,
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why is that the wrong question?
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well, I think
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the answer they're looking for everyone wants something
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that's exciting and and sexy that
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they can tell.
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Their friends. I think you've used the term water cooler alpha or
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Golf Course Alpha everyone thinks somehow because we're
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sitting here on the inside. We're insiders. We've
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got more information than than they do
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as as retail investors, but
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that's just not the case and and it's not about
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hitting that home run with the stock because
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if you're gonna be picking individual stocks, there's gonna
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be some home runs in there, but there's got to be some singles and
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doubles there's gonna be some losers too. It just
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it's gonna happen statistically, but when
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we talk about a plan and what
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it can do for you long term the sense of confidence
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that it's going to give you. That's what you really need. Hey, it's
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great to be able to say Jesus I bought in at this stock when when it
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was at 10 and it went to a hundred and in two years. It's a
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great story, but
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Is better to have a sense of confidence and comfort with your
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plan and with your financial outcomes, and that's why
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sitting down and taking the time to go through a plan with a
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cfp with someone who's a fiduciary is really in your
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best interest versus getting that that hot stock tip.
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Yeah, I would agree. The one thing that
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I always comes to mind when someone says got any tips the first
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thing I'm thinking well if I had some I wouldn't tell you I'd keep
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it all for myself, right? There's wildly more Capital
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to be to be earned when you keep those secrets to yourself right quick
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short story. Tom and
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Peter. My son is out in gainfully employed
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in the Working World now and he has a little bit of money and he
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asked me about a year ago a year and a half ago to Dad what
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stocks should I pick? And so I immediately opened
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up the Barron's journal and
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I just looked at the stocks to pick now I said, hey, you
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know, if you want to buy some technology, here's a bunch of Technology names. I said,
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you know, the market has been involved, but if you want to buy stocks, here's a
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couple of names that you can just
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Your portfolio. So of course he did that on my advice and
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then about a year later. He
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was blaming me because I'm the one that picked the stocks from in the
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stocks were Downs.
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I just thought that was kind of interesting because it I did
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exactly the opposite of what I should have said to him right in terms
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of how we should be approaching these but you know, this was play
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money for him. So I let him learn a little bit about what it
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really means to invest in those types of questions of the wrong questions,
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right as you just mentioned Peter and so I thought it was
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a really good it was a it was a learning moment for him to understand that
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you don't just pick stocks and they go up. Oh, absolutely and like
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I I actually I do that with with clients. I'll
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say to them.
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If you want to open up a small account and I
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use the term your Casino money. Hey, you got to go to
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the casino and sit there and maybe go out to dinner have a drink play the
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slot sit at a table if you lose a hundred or 200
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or $300.
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It was a night of entertainment you had a good time.
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I see take your Casino money and put it into an account and
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buy a couple of stocks and just it's it's
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good education for you. You might learn some valuable
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lessons, but you're gonna pay really close attention. Even
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if it's only five or 10 shares of a
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company and you'll you'll learn a lot for it. So I think there is certainly a
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value in that but with large sums of Money Retirement accounts
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brokerage accounts. Absolutely not none of
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this stock picking. It's got to be a low cost. Well Diversified portfolio.
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So I'm hearing you say it's okay to sit in a
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little bit.
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Any bit tiny bit? Absolutely. No, I didn't. You
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know, I like to play the market myself, but I'm only doing
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that with my my entertainment dollars not my
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long-term assets that that my family
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and I are going to need at some point in time. Right? So Peter
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you've been talking a lot about planning right and and
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I've been in this business for a long time as with you
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you and I've worked together for many many years. I've noticed
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the value proposition of financial advisor
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has changed right at one point. It was that
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stock picker many many years ago. So this
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day and age what what do
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you see as the value proposition to a financial advisor?
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In my opinion, it has to be the plan because that's
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where we've had success as a firm. I've
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had success as an advisor clients have had success
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following that advice and and really
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it's about the planning and that's the most
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valuable advice. I give to my clients. Hey, we're with
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a low cost. Well Diversified portfolio. We're going
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to get a market return the market for us
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taking risk. We will get a market return and my
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return will be no different than my clients because we invest in very similar
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similarly constructed portfolios, but
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really
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Whether we get an 8% return 9% 10%
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return long-term. It's really
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the plan.
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That is is going to drive all that and just because
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their portfolio is up a certain year that that's
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great and they like to see that.
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But again, the plan is going to say well geez, I
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know now I can retire at age 62. I'm
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going to take Social Security at 67 when
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I retire at 62.
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I'm going to be able to pay for my own health insurance until
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I hit MediCare at age 65. I mean, those are questions
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that aren't even related to a rate
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of return or a stock pick or any of that. They're planning
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questions, but they're extremely important to people the very
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comprehensive list of questions versus should you be in a
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60% stock 40% bomb for far beyond that
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correct? Correct, but it's it's about the the layers and
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the investment management risk reward asset
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allocation being allocated appropriately.
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According to your risk tolerance that's all part of it. But you
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do when I sit down with clients we talk about the
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performance we talk about what the markets have been doing and we really start
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to get into those those items Healthcare Medicare long
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term care gifting money to people grandchildren
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setting up a 529
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accounts. All those types of things. These
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are the goals and the things that are important to clients and they come
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through the planning process. Yeah, that's extremely valuable right life
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comes at you fast, and there's a number of instances in
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my personal life where I've leaned on you for things that
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are fun far beyond investable assets.
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So that's that's good. So what so far listeners out there.
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I mean you're looking for a financial professional that
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is planning focused.
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But also from a very comprehensive standpoint Beyond
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stocks bonds mutual funds Exchange Trade
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funds Etc.
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So let's one of the things that's a
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change gears a little bit.
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You know, there's over 300,000 financial advisors in
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the United States, right? The term
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fiduciary comes up quite a bit and I'm
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always surprised maybe I'm not as surprised
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as I once was that investors are don't
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necessarily understand that sometimes advisors are
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acting any fiduciary capacity and sometimes
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they are not before we
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jump into that.
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Explain to us Peter. What is a fiduciary? Well, it's
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it's the highest standard of care in in
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our industry. And I've sort of I've been on both
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sides of it. So I have to act in my
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clients best interest not only being affiliated with with a
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palette but also being a cfp and really
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what that comes down to at the end of the day
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is the type of
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Investment product. I'm going to refer to
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everything as a product that we put our clients into and
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I've got a really focus on the cost the level
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of care below a fiduciary. It's
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referred to as the suitability standard. Does that mean if I'm
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not a fiduciary? I'm doing something unethical absolutely not
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the last thing I want to do because I again I was there I've worked
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with clients where I was just doing by this suitability standard. I
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was not a fiduciary at the end of the
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day. I'm putting my clients into something that is putting more money back
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into their pocket meaning the fees
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and the costs associated with those products are
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much lower. We have
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no Front End Sales charges. We have no backend sales charges.
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So I said to clients that are that are coming on board.
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I will bend over backwards to make sure that you are happy but at some
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point if you don't realize the value
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of our services or you chose to go elsewhere, you
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can do that. You're going to be able to take what you have here and
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move that elsewhere. You're not going to be tied up for three or
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five or ten years. No surrender charges or big
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fees to go acting in their best interest and that helps
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to protect them. And I think it's extremely important that people
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need to ask
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Are you a fiduciary is your firm of fiduciary? And how
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do you work? So when?
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Investors are looking for a financial
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professional to work with right what I'm
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hearing someone the first things I should look for and they should ask about it potentially
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even get it in writing. Are you acting any fiduciary
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capacity? Are you acting in my best interest? Correct? They
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absolutely should and and interview multiple
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people Tom has
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been not only a great client. But I've worked
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with many of Tom's family members. Why because they come to Tom. Jeez
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Tom. I've got some questions. Who should I work with? Well talk
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to Peter. So if you have a friend or family member who you
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know works with an advisor ask for that that person's name.
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And if they will if you have a friend or family member they'll
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refer them over if they enjoy working with them. So I think that's a
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good place to start but interview them there's many checklists
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online and I think one of the things you want to ask about are
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you a fiduciary understand what that means and it's
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it's something important because there's
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plenty of us out. There aren't as many as probably there should
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be but there's plenty fiduc.
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He's out there for you to work with.
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Absolutely. You made a really good point. I was doing a little research.
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Knowing that we were going to have this.
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Talk today the three of us and you know,
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the number one way investors find their financial advisors through
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through referrals. Right number two is through
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you know online searches and things like that. So
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I think that's that's really important
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when you're looking for financial audience advisor talk to your family
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your friends people who have or may have similar Financial
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situations as you do but I
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think you know, the important thing. Is that the very good question. Are
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you acting and a fiduciary capacity at all times, right?
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We talked about the planning process one of the things I want to
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touch upon and Mike will turn to you is that sometimes giving
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good advice means saying no not giving
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the client what they're looking for. Right and
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I've seen advisors who act
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as more of a facilitator
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very high service level but whatever the client
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wants they they get what are some of the Perils of
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that?
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The Perils are that you become all
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things to all people and as I think
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Thomas you have famously said if everything's
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important nothing's important and
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I think from the perspective of advice that we work with
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it's it's you know
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when you when you think about that kind of cafeteria style
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service.
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It becomes very difficult to.
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Address clients needs concerns or
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fears because you know
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in terms of of investment investment advice,
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if you're if you've got clients that are in individual stocks
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and you have clients in Diversified portfolios, or they're in a more passive
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investment or they're in a tactical investment. You're constantly
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pivoting to try to answer questions to
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all these different constituencies within your practice what we
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find in our in our work is that you know advisors that
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have a philosophy advisors have a way that
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they approach the capital markets and how they construct portfolios I
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tend to do the best because their clients are like-minded and
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it keeps them in their seats even when markets are
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difficult. So having a
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Kind of a carte blanche or
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I like to say cafeteria style investment or at
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least offering makes it more difficult for you to keep your
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clients in line. I think over time and I think what I
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like like best about being at symmetries, we do have that investment philosophy. That's
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straightforward. It doesn't deviate and most
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of the advice that work with us tend to have
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that same philosophy. The interesting thing about that too is you notice
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when markets are fairly volatile which where this is really important
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is that you know investors that
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kind of adhere to similar investment
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strategy like symmetries is that they tend
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to have less gap between What markets are doing and what
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their Investments are doing because they tend to stay in their seats. They're not
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moving around behaviorally moving in and out of the market or moving in and
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out of Investments. And I think that's sometimes can be the
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the offshoot of having a strategy where
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you're just trying to be everything to everybody.
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I'm going to unpack use it a lot of really yeah, I get
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there. Sorry, but no. No, I just want to make sure our listeners get it to get
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some really really good insight there Mike. So first
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and foremost you talk about an investment philosophy
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and what I'm hearing you say is that we're talking
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about advice, right and if someone wants to
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give advice you have to have a stake in the ground.
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You have to have that place where your your view on
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how Capital markets work?
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And if you don't have that view you might fall into that
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facilitator capacity.
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The other thing that she said I'm glad you
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said it as you talked a lot about behavior and what I'm hearing you
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say is the study we've used many times the dial
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bar study for our listeners. Could you talk a little bit about what that dial bar
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research shows us sure is that it shows that the the investor
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over, you know?
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Many time periods. I mean they updated every year but it goes
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back a number of years and it looks at what investors
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do in terms of investing in
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the let's say the S&P 500 as an index versus what the
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index does and we find year in and year out that investors
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tend to underperform the
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index and the question always is Peter and you know this why
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and it's because they're holding period is
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tends to be I think it's less it used to be in the old days three
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three plus years now. It's three minus here. It's less
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than three years of holding period of time, which means they're
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Behaviorally trying to in some
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ways time the market and so what we
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try to do at least in as I talk
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to advisors is to try to educate them and educate clients as
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well that you know, we want to close that Gap we
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call that the the performance Gap right?
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There's a gap between what investments do and what the investor
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does right? We know this plenty of Dad out
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there to show that so how do we do that? Peter had talked about a little
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bit earlier is we look at things like, okay, what's important? How do
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we close that Gap? It comes from financial planning. It comes
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from portfolio selection, not necessarily portfolio
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management, but portfolio selection in terms
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of picking the right model of the right strategy for for clients
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education and communication with clients. I
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think those are great ways that we see that behavioral Gap
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closing through time and that and
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ends up being a an experience
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that clients will be with their advisors for a long time
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because you focus on the things that matter not the investment
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itself.
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a great computer
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You're the the man in the seat here. So talk
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to us a little about that. Right? I mean that dial bar study is
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pretty telling every year investors are underperforming.
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You focus on planning. How does planning help with the
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long-term thinking that is required for
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successful experience. It comes into
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Not only the planning but educating clients and
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communication and the example I'll use and we were
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all.
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working from back home during the the pandemic and
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the markets dropped about a
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third
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so about 33% in about a month's time thinking
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the numbers are 33% over 34 days 1/3.
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And we're sitting here stuck at home. We think the world is going
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to end and my message to my clients because
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it's the message of our firm message that I truly believe.
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And it wasn't easy.
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No, we're not doing anything this too shall
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pass.
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You know, this is the.com bubble. This
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is 911. This is the
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great financial crisis of 2008.
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It doesn't necessarily matter what the event
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is because everyone know Peter is a pandemic. It's different like you're
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right, but you're not it's the uncertainty and what
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lo and behold what happens after the
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market drops a third.
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In March February and to March it
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shoots back up. It comes roaring back why we
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had no vaccine. We still were unemployment had
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still not hit its peak because of
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all the you know, retail and entertainment losses
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that that took place in in this country and around the
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world. We still have this crazy election in front
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of us. There was still uncertainty but why why did it happen and I
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don't think there's necessarily an answer but the lesson learned
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is we stay in our seats regardless of what's going on because
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the markets have they've always come back and I
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believe any time we hit something.
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They'll come back again. We just don't know when so that
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experience because I I think
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you use the term staking in the stand or stake in the ground. That was my
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stake in the ground. And now as we went through all of this in
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2022 with all of the uncertainty and inflation and
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gas prices and all of that impacting
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the markets interest rates being increased.
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People said yeah, I remember what you said back during the
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pandemic. So yeah, okay that that makes sense. It's the
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messaging my messages consistent.
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And when people hear that, there's a sense of confidence like, you know what he was
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right last time. He'll probably be right this time, too.
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Fantastic, and I remember that Panda right that
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first quarter of 2020 was one of the top 10 worst
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quarters in the United States history going back to 1926. The
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second quarter of 2020 was one of the top 10
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best quarters the United States ever experienced going
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back. And and the funny thing is if we had
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been if we had moved our money out of we did
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not stay calm and we moved money out
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of the market in March. What would
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we have missed? When do we get back in? It's it's
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difficult. It's difficult to sit there
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when the market is dropping and say my gosh we have to do
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something but you're also playing the same game when you get out. It's like
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well if you get out, okay well, but then the market will eventually
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come back. Well, when do you get back in?
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And and and we just see long-term what the
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results are you're better off.
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Staying going dealing with the rollercoaster ride
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staying in your seat versus making rash decisions based
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upon fear and emotion Peter Michael. Thank you so much
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for joining us here today that concludes part one of our discussion
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on choosing the right financial advisor. I look
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forward to continuing the conversation at part two, and if you want to
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look at any of our previous unfiltered Finance podcasts, they're
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available wherever you might be getting your podcast today. So,
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thank you till next time bye-bye.
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Symmetry Partners LLC is an
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investment advisor firm registered with the Securities and
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