Transcript- Episode 124: The Need for Reform: Breaking Down the School-to-Prison Pipeline with Quan Huynh, Executive Director at Southern California at Defy Ventures Episode 124
Release Date: 07/23/2024
00:00:00 - Quan Huynh
Usually my pitch to an employer is like, look, I'm not here asking you to give a job to anybody. What I'm here asking you to do is do your round of interviews. Settle on the best possible candidate. If this candidate happens to have a background, one, either be willing to look past the criminal conviction, or two, be willing to bring them in and have a conversation with them and ask them about their prison journey. Ask them about their process of transformation. Ask them about their perspective.
00:00:31 - Christina Barsi
The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?
00:00:55 - Salvatrice Cummo
Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, vice president of economic and workforce development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.
00:01:04 - Christina Barsi
And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.
00:01:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
And we are starting the conversation about the Future of Work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC. Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.
00:01:42 - Christina Barsi
We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.
00:01:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the future of work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Doctor Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're diving into a critical and often overlooked issue, the school to prison pipeline and its profound impact on students. We've touched on this topic in a previous episode, but today we have a special guest who brings a unique and deeply personal perspective into the conversation. Our guest, Quan Hyun, has been described as a mighty warrior and a mountain of goodness. He is the best selling author of Sparrow in the Razor, Finding freedom from within while serving a life sentence. After spending 22 years in and out of correctional institutions, Quan was paroled from a life sentence in 2015. He quickly turned his life around, founding his first company, Jade Janitors, Inc. Just six months later, he now serves as the executive director of Defy Ventures in Southern California. Together, we'll explore his journey, his work with Defy Ventures, and his insights on the school to prison pipeline. We'll discuss how educational institutions, particularly community colleges, can play a pivotal role in interrupting this cycle and creating pathways for incarcerated individuals to reintegrate into society productively. I'm super psyched to have this conversation. Quan, how are you? Good morning.
00:03:21 - Quan Huynh
Good morning, Salvatrice. Thank you for having me.
00:03:23 - Salvatrice Cummo
You know, I always like to start off the conversation about one's journey, and so if it's okay with you, let's just get this started, and if you can share with us briefly your journey and what led you to where you are today.
00:03:37 - Quan Huynh
Sure. My journey. Okay. Well, I think as you referenced, I, formerly incarcerated, served about 22 years of my life in correctional institutions throughout California. I had a life sentence. I paroled in 2015 after the California parole board found that I was no longer a danger to what they felt, a danger to society. I can't remember the exact terminology they used, but it took me quite a while for the light to come on. And that's kind of what my book entails, is my journey for transformation and mindfulness and being able to realize that I can make an impact in the world.
00:04:16 - Quan Huynh
Briefly touching on it, I think it took about the 12th year of my life sentence when several things had happened, like a family member had passed away. I saw the picture of my niece for the first time as my brother's daughter, and it just took me back to childhood because she looked exactly like my little brother as a little kid.
00:04:34 - Quan Huynh
And it just took me back to childhood. How did my life end up like this? Am I supposed to die in here? One thing that did keep me busy in my prison helped me escape a lot were books, and I'm a huge bookworm, so I have this habit where I read a book. I get fascinated. If I really like it, then I go into the back, I read the acknowledgments, I see who influenced them, and I go down these rabbit trails and get into other books. And I've always been interested in entrepreneurship, so I can't remember what happened, but I was reading some books, which then led me down other rabbit trails. And right around that time, I became fascinated with books on the saints, in particular, stories about saints that had failed in some way in their life and then had gone on to create these amazing orders and began to, like, have this huge movement. And I just became fascinated with them, which then led to books on mindfulness, spirituality, and I would have to say it became like this perfect storm in my head, and there was one day on the prison yard.
00:05:34 - Quan Huynh
I remember it was early in the morning, and I asked myself, like, why do I have to view prison as punishment? Why can't I view this place as a place that I can remake myself even if I'm supposed to die in here? I think it was because there were stories about monks that I read that went into these monasteries, and then all these people just removed themselves. And I go, why do I have to view prison that way? I've just removed myself, and I could remake myself.
00:06:00 - Quan Huynh
And of course, you know, the answer comes back from the universe like you can. And I remember that moment very well. The sun was coming up over the hills. I could feel its warmth in the individual blades of grass. I could see the drops of dew. And up above me in the razor wire, I heard a sparrow chirping. And I tell everyone, like, you know, sparrows have probably been chirping my whole prison term. But that day, I heard it. And I would say that day is where my process of transformation began, where then I viewed, suddenly, I looked like, wait, these are just other men along on their journey.
00:06:36 - Quan Huynh
And I saw, like, each of us, some of them much further along than me, but some of them perhaps not even awakened. And I think the first thing I did was I realized, you know what? I'd like to check in to see with the therapist, because my father had died when I was a 13 year old boy, and I had never processed his death. And I realized, I think it's time for me to speak about my father and explore the trauma that that caused when he died from passing away from leukemia. So, yeah, 25 years after my father died is when I began the process of grieving his death. And then being the consummate bookworm, I became fascinated with, like, the grief and loss process, Elisabeth Kübler-Ross and all her writings and teachings. And then I realized, wait, there's, around me, there's all these men that are also suffering and unable to grieve, whether that's losing family members that have passed away or unable to grieve because their partners have left them, or even something seemingly innocuous as being transferred from one prison to another.
00:07:40 - Quan Huynh
But then they've lost friendships they've had for years or maybe decades and not able to process that. So I saw this huge need for men that needed healing. So I put together a syllabus, and I submitted it to the prison psychologist, and we were able to launch the prison's first ever grief and loss group.
00:07:57 - Quan Huynh
And it was inside that group that I first saw the opportunity for healing. And I saw firsthand, wait, I can help and make an impact. And that's where I suddenly felt alive. Then suddenly being the book where I started looking into books on group psychodynamics and how to facilitate groups and childhood development, and how does that contribute to someone's journey and life experience? And it just became all these things in my head where suddenly, here I am in some forgotten corner of the world, some discarded corner of the world that nobody knows about, nobody cares about. And I felt, I'm alive, and I'm facilitating groups and being involved with groups, and I'm making an impact regardless of just some forgotten corner of the world. And I felt alive in there. That is where I began. This is my true freedom. And that's I would have to describe for the next few years. I felt absolutely free, even though I was incarcerated with a life sentence.
00:08:49 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you for sharing that story and trusting us to share that story with us. I'm curious as to when that came over you and you changed your framework on where you were. You said I shouldn't look at it as a punishment, but rather a way to work on myself, an opportunity. Opportunity, that's right. So from there, you spent the rest of the time. I'm going to use the word rebuilding. Is that fair to say?
00:09:15 - Quan Huynh
Rebuilding? Finding. Yeah. Discovering, even just finding my true self.
00:09:20 - Salvatrice Cummo
When you got to the point of, I'm now out in the world, where did the journey go from there? What led you to your venture and where you are today?
00:09:31 - Quan Huynh
Well, I paroled in 2015. I was involved with this program inside called Defy Ventures. It's a career readiness, personal development entrepreneurship training program. This is before I became the executive director. I was involved as a graduate of the program, and they instill in this the entrepreneurial mindset. So six months after I had paroled, I saw an opportunity to create a janitorial cleaning company. I worked in the prison hospital, so I was part of a team where that's what we did. We did the blood borne pathogens. We did stripping the floors, cleaning the floor. So that experience gave me a good eye for detail, and so I knew how to run a team. And when I came home, I was working with my brother's real estate company under his license, because, you know, as someone that's formerly incarcerated, I couldn't get the licensing from the state of California.
00:10:25 - Quan Huynh
So I worked on his license, but I saw the building that where his office was, they didn't have a good janitorial cleaning company. And I found out that the building owner was looking for your company. So I remember that the Defy Ventures, they teach us, like, you introduce yourself, say, I'm the founder and CEO of, you know, your company.
00:10:41 - Quan Huynh
And I didn't have a company, but I made a building owner, was looking for a cleaning company. So I remember I got on to Godaddy and I was like, what? I'm going to name my company? And I looked up, I want it to be something sounding, like, valuable or like. So I like platinum janitors, gold janitors. All those domains were taken. And then I go, what about Jade janitors? Like Asians, we love the Jade stone to play on the jade and janitors. And I, oh, Jade Janitors is open. $9.99. So I purchased the domain, and then I emailed the building owner, and I told him, like, my name is Quan Huynh. I'm the founder and CEO of Jade Janitors. I had no company, no employees. I was like, I used to run a team at a hospital up in northern California, which is also true.
00:11:28 - Quan Huynh
I hear you're looking for cleaning services. How can we partner with you? And then he's like, send me your business license and certificate. And so, okay, what is this? So I had to ask a family member who had a business, and it's like, oh, you have to go to the county courthouse. I went to the county court warehouse that day, did my DBA. Then at the time, it was in the city of Fountain Valley. I got the business license. And I remember the clerk at the city of Fountain Valley laughed at me because I said, the name is Jade Janitors, and said, how many employees do you have? And I go, oh, it's just me.
00:11:59 - Quan Huynh
He's like, how's your name janitors when it's just you? And I said, because I'm going to hire people and there's going to be more than one person. So then it was that same day I sent the business license certificate to the building owner, and he asked, can you give me a copy of your insurance? And I'm like, what is this? So I had to get on Google, what is janitorial insurance? And I remember they said, you have to buy this policy.
00:12:24 - Quan Huynh
I think it was like $400 and I have to sign it and $80 a month. So I was like, okay, this is my first big gamble. It's a few hundred to get the license. Should I do this? And I go, you know what? I'm going to do it. I don't have a company. I don't have employee. I don't even have a contract. But I'm going to buy the insurance for the company.
00:12:39 - Quan Huynh
I bought the insurance. I sent it to him, and he asked me, can you give me a quote? And I, okay. I told myself, okay, well, it would probably take me about 3 hours to clean this. So I'll pay somebody 4 hours to clean this. This is what I will pay that person. These are the margins I want. And I sent the quote. Like, as I look back now, my quote was way too low, but I sent it. And then he says, can you guys start this Friday? And that's how I started my Jade Janitors company. I put somebody in, and it's still running to this day. We have six employees. Four of them are also formerly incarcerated. And I found one. My best workers by far. Those are my best workers. So that's how I started my company. And then I remember Defy Ventures expanded out here to Southern California in 2017. So it's about a year and a half after I had been home.
00:13:28 - Quan Huynh
I was working in real estate. We had also helped launch my family's restaurant from, like, a concept to, like, daily operation. So I was there and then. But when I found out Defy Ventures was coming down here to Southern California, and they were looking for a program manager, I said, you know what? I want to go back to how I felt in prison. The feeling of fulfillment and having a purpose. And so I left real estate and my family's restaurant to interview for that program manager position. At that time, like, people didn't agree, like, why would you take a pay cut, essentially, to go do this? But that was the best decision of my life at that moment by far. So I started as the program manager for our post release program to help men and women coming home. So that was really cool to be able to tell people, welcome home, welcome home. And where do you want to go? What do you want to build or what type of work you're looking for? And I got to build that.
00:14:22 - Quan Huynh
So over the years, my roles and responsibilities have just grown. And a couple years ago, I stepped into the role of Executive Director. So now I get to oversee our entire chapter here in Southern California, which now is the largest chapter nationally. So it's pretty cool. I still pinch myself when I wake up. I go, Quan. This is what I get to do for a living, right? Go back into prison and tell people I believe in them, and I get to tell people, "Welcome home." And then we get to advocate for my brothers and sisters that are still incarcerated and pave a way for them out here to try to make their journey easier.
00:14:56 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's beautiful. It sounds like it's aligning with your core, rather than, I mean, those adventures. The journey of entrepreneurship, of course, has its highs and lows, and it's very lonely. Obviously, it was very productive and lucrative and successful, but maybe it wasn't really kind of tying back to your core. As you were mentioning earlier about your journey of rebuild. It sounds like to me, with your role now with defy Ventures, you're aligning both, and it feels probably a little more solid, right? I mean, solid. I'm not talking about instability, but just solid in. It just feels good. It feels really good. And thank you. Thank you for sharing. I think we talk a lot about school to prison pipeline, and I want to kind of, like, shift into that topic a little more, because at previous episodes, we barely scratched the surface, Quan, like, right before we logged on here in this recording, I was sharing a little bit with you about what we stumbled across. And for me, this interview is impactful because it's not just research, but rather your perspective, which is invaluable. You can't put a price tag on this kind of thought and perspective. And so I'm really curious about, through your lens, as we think about this unspoken, I have to say, school to prison pipeline and raising awareness around it, how do you think it impacts the student? Not only the student journey, but society as a whole?
00:16:37 - Quan Huynh
Yeah, I remember my first arrest. I was still in high school, and then I came home, and I didn't have a high school diploma, and I was now trying to enter community college, and they asked me, where's your high school diploma? I felt very ashamed. There was a big stigma about being formally incarcerated. I didn't have a place to talk about it. Fortunately, I... the counselor I told at the time made me feel heard. Like, she was like, okay, it's okay. You know, let's just take these assessment tests. And my assessment tests, like, put me right into, you know, English 101. And I didn't have to take any remedial classes, but I think had that counselor not make me feel heard, I would have just like, okay, community colleges don't want me. So I think for the student as a whole, there's this shame and this stigma about somebody being incarcerated, even in school. I shared with you earlier as part of this group called Project Rebound. They were formed to specifically bring together higher education students at a school that are formally incarcerated. So they have a place to process and to share space and to just realize, oh, there's 30 of us here yet. I thought I was the only one that was formally incarcerated. So I remember that. And I think if, if we're asking about, like, how does that affect society as a whole, I think the question has to be like, just fundamentally, number one, do you believe in second chances or third chances or fourth chances? And then, number two, if someone has served their time, are we willing to accept them back to society? I think fundamentally everyone says, oh, yes, I do. But what are the barriers that we put up, whether that's for employment, whether that's for housing, fair chance lending, all of these things that we continue to put up for once somebody has done their time and or somebody that's been vindicated, what do we do to support them as a member of our community? If we look at it that way, those will be the two questions I would throw back on what people say about, yes, this school to prison pipeline.
00:18:39 - Salvatrice Cummo
Well, let's talk about that a little bit. So you said there's some significant barriers to this reentry, right. Like reentry into society. And there's critical issues that you see here and battle every day. Right? Like you're addressing these things every day. Let's spend some time with that quan, and let's talk about, I mean, you mentioned a few, right? You mentioned employment, housing. There's a couple of others. But let's spend some time discussing the critical issues that we should address not only as a system, but as a society. And how do we support that successful reentry. So even just taking, like, your own experience, when you said that counselor, thankfully there was that counselor that said, hey, you know, let me help you navigate this community college system. What are other things or what are other ways that we should be addressing these critical issues so that there is a successful, a higher success rate of in the reentry?
00:19:37 - Quan Huynh
Well, I think if we even want to roll back before the first arrest, let's just say, let's think about communities of color or impoverished communities where there is what they label a gang element. And then the police are already using these field identification cards to label people that grew up in these communities, that this is all they know. And they might not be part of this gang, but they're just growing up and this is their neighborhood, and they're already labeled at a young age as a gang member or something. And then how does that affect them in school where a teacher will write them off? This is a gang member where he might not be one or he maybe is one, but this is not an entrenched person. This is somebody that's only an associate. Or on a periphery, there's no addressing that component first, where, okay, this person is already set up to begin this pathway of going to prison eventually, because at this age, this person's already been written off because of this skin color or because of the community that they're coming from, because of the way they may look different. And then once they come home, like, let's just say even, for example, at the community college level, how many counselors are equipped or trained to even deal with somebody that may be formerly incarcerated or may have these gaps? Like, okay, so the person doesn't have a high school diploma. What does this mean? Or why? How do we still get them to enroll? Or I'm not sure if the education system itself is even set to deal with. And at any given moment, how many students, this unseen population on campus that you may not know about, and I would guess maybe ten to 15%, could be formerly incarcerated or were arrested at some point, maybe those numbers might be higher. This invisible population, how are they supported in a way to help them be successful?
00:21:26 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think that some of the challenges that we face as a community college system is the students identifying as formerly incarcerated.
00:21:35 - Quan Huynh
There is really no incentive for them to do that. Right. It's always been a barrier, like, say, to come home. Have you ever been convicted of a crime? You check, yes, you can't get a job. So, like, what if they think, are we setting it up? Like, have you ever been convicted of crime? And let's say the school system wants this to help them, but if they don't understand that, if there's no language to let them know, like, hey, we're actually looking to support this type of population, then why would they want to disclose if they think they're going to be punished for it?
00:22:03 - Salvatrice Cummo
Right. It goes back to what you were talking about earlier, like the stigma and this unspoken energy or attitude about it, right. And even entry into. We talk about that sentiment or that feeling within the community college system. But even when we talk about employment as an employer, how do I support reentry? Let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, we all have room for growth, so I'm going to start with that. We all have room for growth in all areas of how we support our students. This is one of those areas that we need to do better. Like, we have to be in this constant state of improvement, or else we're just a disservice to our student. But I want to spend some time about, you know, your perspective as an employer, how do we support the reentry? Because in employment, you and I both know that we have a box to check if we've been formally incarcerated or if we have a background check that we need to disclose. And oftentimes people are scared, right? Prospective employees are scared, and they're not going to check those boxes, because, again, to your point, it's more of a punishment than it is a redirect and support. So are there maybe employers that you've seen work with yourself? Right. As an employer working with formerly incarcerated, and how are we supporting that community and reentry? As a body of employers, what are some things that we could do together?
00:23:32 - Quan Huynh
There's several things here, I think. Okay, first of all, let's say employers, like, when I was on a panel at south by Southwest for tech founders that wanted to be involved with justice. And I think one of the first questions, like I asked, like the tech founders, is how many people on your leadership team, like your decision making team, have this lived experience? Like, if you're looking to solve a problem for a population that you really don't know nothing about, like, you're prescribing, like, okay, for the community college level, let's reexamine our own application process here at the college level and, or let's say some of the students that want to become student aides and things like that.
00:24:12 - Quan Huynh
Do we ask this question on there? How many of them are formerly incarcerated? I think a lot of the misperceptions around this is like, oh, they say, California said we have banned the box, so we can't ask that question anymore. Which is true, but yet it's always okay. We can't ask the question. Going in the loophole is the job offer pending a background check? And I have seen over and over again where our candidates, graduates of our program, have come home, done their time.
00:24:42 - Quan Huynh
They've done quite a bit of work on themselves. So they present well, they interview well, they get offered a job pending the background check, and then the employer will come back, rescinds the job offer. And then they cite something where attorneys get involved. They recite something where they say, okay, well, this is a liability issue. One of our graduates has been home. Specific example, he started working at Doordash before the pandemic. Five years. Five years. Now, one of their highest rated delivery drivers, they recently switched background check company. So this background check company, they do their annual background checks. His background check popped up from his conviction from over 30 years ago, and they fired him. They terminated him because of something that he was convicted of over 30 years ago. He's done his time.
00:25:28 - Quan Huynh
He's home, one of their highest rated drivers, and they say, oh, this is against our policies. This didn't come up. So then does he have recourse on that? Like, I think if we're talking about true systemic change, there has to be a concerted effort by everybody involved. How are we still punishing people that have already done their time? And, like, let's say an employer you're setting up, like, okay, let's be very intentional if, like, I've talked to some fair chance employment partners.
00:25:56 - Quan Huynh
Like, our work at DeFi is to bring in the business community with us, too. We have, like, these business pitch competitions, and that's where our volunteers come in and our program participants inside pitch a business, and they're judged shark tank style by volunteers. But I think we do this inside the prisons is because we believe that's where we could achieve true systems change, is what better community to help us achieve this than the business community? Once that can begin to explore fair chance hiring, explore their bylaws, really have the question, and I think really be willing to push back on their attorneys that come up with this catch all word liability.
00:26:38 - Quan Huynh
We have this conversation with potential employers all the time. Yes, it is very normal for you to be fearful. It is very normal for you to feel nervous. Usually my pitch to an employer is like, look, I'm not here asking you to give a job to anybody. What I'm here asking you to do is do your round of interviews, settle on the best possible candidate. If this candidate happens to have a background. One, either be willing to look past the criminal conviction, or two, be willing to bring them in and have a conversation with them and ask them about their prison journey.
00:27:10 - Quan Huynh
Ask them about their process of transformation, ask them about their perspective. And I tell them, like, if it is one of our graduates, I'm very certain that you will be very impressed about the internal work this person has done. And I would imagine you would be impressed with this person's dedication and loyalty to work. Like, you're getting a prime employee and you don't even know it.
00:27:32 - Quan Huynh
You're overlooking this population that has done quite a bit of work on themselves. I truly mean it when I say the four employees of mine that are formerly incarcerated are my best workers, way better than me. Just like putting somebody in, like, often, indeed resume, and I interview them, and there's no work ethic. Like, one of my friends, he owns a chain of restaurants, and he says, the people that he's interviewing nowadays. Sometimes he has to call them and beg them to even show up for an interview or on the day of their supposed to work. They don't even show up. They don't show up. And I'm telling him that would not happen with this population that I get to work with inside. They will show up and they will go above and beyond. But I think that's a lot of employers out there don't realize what they are overlooking if they just have a conversation with somebody that's formerly incarcerated, that has done their work while they were incarcerated.
00:28:25 - Quan Huynh
Like ask them about what certifications they had, ask them about what groups they might have joined, whether anger management, effective communication, like you're getting somebody that has done a lot of internal work, whereas contrast that with someone out here in the general population that never have had that opportunity or don't even realize, like doing that they don't have a. Or that they don't realize that they also have an anger problem, but they just were never incarcerated to have to deal with it.
00:28:51 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's right. That's right. It sounds like there's two things that need to happen simultaneously. It's a shift in policy, right. And educating around policy within the workforce and then also training employers how to ask the right questions and how to extract character. Because when we do hiring, yes, we're hiring on skill, but the majority of the time we don't hire just on skill. 90% of the time we're making our decision based on character. And so how do we extract one's character and what they've experienced to be able to apply to their skillset, right. And make that match? And that's what I'm hearing here is it sounds like the employers as well are nervous about it because a, they either don't know or they're speaking to the stigma, right. Or they're just responding, not speaking to, but responding to the stigma. But maybe they just don't know. They just simply don't know what to ask, how to ask those things that you just shared right now. Right. I mean, they probably just don't know. And I personally, just within our community college and the division of economic and workforce development were we have the beauty to work with the student, the employer and the business owners. I'm going to call it customer base. Our customer base, our participants, those are our stakeholders, students, faculty, the business community. And we're both inward facing and outward facing. So I personally, Quan, would be really delighted to unpack and explore what a partnership with Defy Ventures might look like, because I think there's a lot of work to be done. I mean, even just a simple conversation around training employers how to interview, right. Someone who has been formally incarcerated after they discover they've been formally incarcerated, based on their background check. What do we do? How are we doing this? So, curious about your thoughts around a partnership with the community college, not only to enhance their educational opportunities, but also, well, prepare them into the workforce. What might that look like? You know, what might a partnership look like with Defy Ventures and a community college, if that's of interest? Of course.
00:31:07 - Quan Huynh
Yeah, I would love to partner with local community college. I think one, number one, is just have warm referral partners. Let's say somebody coming home and is interested in a certain certification or going back to college. So there's that number one. Number two, I would love to be partners with a community college because, let's say, I imagine there's a population that was formerly incarcerated or that had been arrested at the community colleges that might not be seen or they might not even know about an opportunity with DeFi where they could join our virtual bootcamp program if they're interested in exploring entrepreneurship and coming together with a community that's also formerly incarcerated to build businesses. And then, of course, like partnerships with. Okay, if there's a way for DeFi and some local community colleges to go into grant funding together, partners on foundations that may have alignment with our work, and they want to explore, like, re entry and how can we make an impact in these communities? There's many opportunities.
00:32:08 - Salvatrice Cummo
I think if the door is open, Quan, I mean, I'd be happy to explore some of those things with you and defy ventures and see what's possible, because I think there's always space for support. There's always going to be space for support. And I think that the greater the connectivity among nonprofits, public entities like ours, and for profits, the more that we come together to be a support system, the greater the success rate. I think that we all know we do more together than alone, right? So do count us, do count on us to be a partner in your work and in your mission. But I wanted to just kind of shift gears just a little bit. Quan, like, this is the future of work podcast, right? And our role here is to not only talk about the future, occupations and projections and trends and things like that, but we also have to talk about the realities of preparing for the workforce. And this conversation was really helpful. I think there's more to be talked about and more to unpack, but the school to prison pipeline was a really important one for us. And I think, again, there's more to discuss here. But given this is a future of work podcast, I'd like for you to share with us what possibilities the future could hold if we made some important shifts to better support our formerly incarcerated workforce. What would be some important shifts that we would need to make to better support our formerly incarcerated workforce? For the future of work?
00:33:40 - Quan Huynh
I think we would have a much lower recidivism rate. We would have a community where people feel like embraced when they come home, instead of a community where they feel like they have to still hide or that they're not accepted and that they're outcasts in some way.
00:33:58 - Salvatrice Cummo
That's excellent. Excellent. You have shared so many wonderful thoughts and wonderful perspectives, and I genuinely look forward to working closely with you with defy ventures and partnering on some community college programming with you and you sharing with us. Right? Like, where do we need to be? What do we need to be talking about? How do we need to shift our programming? How do we need to shift our approaches? All those things. I'm thankful that you've made the time for us. I really, genuinely am. And I'm really looking forward to further having a conversation with you on what that might look like for us. And we can learn so much from you and defyventures, and I know that our listener has, too. And if they want to reach out to you, what's the best way that they can do that?
00:34:46 - Quan Huynh
They can find me on all social media. Just type my name Quan, and then just put an x in between Quan and Huynh. You can find me on all social media. They could find me right at https://www.defyventures.org/ if they want to learn more about our program and or if they want to join us in prison, I'd love to bring you into proximity with our program participants. Come find out our program and come see our work firsthand. I'd love to invite you and your team to come join us, too.
00:35:11 - Salvatrice Cummo
Fantastic. We'll definitely be there and we'll be sure to enter into the show notes, your social handles, and where our listener can find you and connect with you. But thank you. I will definitely accept your offer and we'll see each other soon, I'm sure, and we'll connect offline. But thank you once again, Quan. I really, genuinely appreciate your time and your expertise. We'll chat soon.
00:35:34 - Quan Huynh
Thank you.
00:35:35 - Salvatrice Cummo
Thank you. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate partner or just chat about all things future of work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.