Transcript- Episode 138: Rebuilding After The LA Fires: A Comprehensive Guide to the SBA’s Disaster Support with Julie Clowes, Director, Los Angeles District Office, U.S. Small Business Administration Episode 138

00:00:00 - Julie Clowes

Even though you're not certain maybe how you want to utilize all these programs, I do say apply, get yourself into the queue, the application queue, and preserve the ability to tap into these resources beyond that March 10 deadline. With SBA's program, for example, if you decide you don't want the loan, at the end of the day, SBA offers you and you're like, you know, I think I can manage without it. That's okay. You can say, no. You can take a lesser amount than what SBA might offer you. But what I don't want people to do is get two months from now and say, gosh, I wish I would have applied.

 

00:00:38 - Christina Barsi

The workforce landscape is rapidly changing, and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?

 

00:01:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.

 

00:01:11 - Christina Barsi

And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.

 

00:01:15 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships, and PCC students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us, you, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.

 

00:01:49 - Christina Barsi

We believe change happens when we work together, and it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.

 

00:01:57 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi. Welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today, we are joined by Julie Clowes, Director of the U.S. Small Business Administration's Los Angeles District Office. Julie has spent 28 years at the SBA holding key leadership positions across Detroit, Washington, D.C., San Francisco, and now Los Angeles. She also has a legal background, having worked as an attorney in the SBA's Office of General Counsel for a decade. Julie has been instrumental in guiding small businesses through economic recovery, disaster relief, and funding programs to ensure sustainability during crises. Today, we'll be discussing how SBA is supporting businesses, homeowners, and communities in the wake of the recent LA fires, what financial assistance is available, how small businesses can rebuild, and what economic recovery looks like moving forward. Julie, welcome to the show.

 

00:03:03 - Julie Clowes

Thank you.

 

00:03:04 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Thanks for spending some time. I know that we. We are in the midst of lots of activities responding to the crisis here, but again, just thank you. The SBA has been instrumental in this process, and so to carve out time means quite a bit to us. So thank you.

 

00:03:20 - Julie Clowes

Oh, no, thank you. I appreciate the invitation.

 

00:03:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

You bet. You bet. So I think before we kind of get started on the SBA offerings and recovery, I think it's important that our listener understands a little bit about you and who you are. And so I posed this question. If you could tell us a little bit about your journey, how you got here, how did you come to work with the SBA, and what has kept you intrigued about staying with the SBA for nearly three decades?

 

00:03:49 - Julie Clowes

Thank you. I was asked this question once by one of my former supervisors, and I was like, it really was a lot of just luck as opposed to any sort of strategy. But no, I actually started working for the SBDC, the Small Business Development center, in grad school, and obviously, I know you have intimate knowledge of that program, and I had never heard of SBA before. When I was in school and working with the SBDC, which is a program of SBA, I got to learn all about the programs and services and working with the business owners one on one, and I discovered that I really loved it. I loved working with these men and women, seeing their passion, their commitment. I mean, you just want to. You cheer for them. You can't help but cheer for them. And it's so inspiring to me. And so it's really kind of what I love to do and talk about. I've been fortunate to have three very different careers inside of SBA, going from public affairs specialist to attorney, and now back on the field side to working with all of our programs and services delivery across the community. But it's really the small business owners that I meet that keep me inspired and keep me wanting to do this day in and day out.

 

00:05:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Thank you. I think that being on the field gives us just a different dose of reality. And I feel the same way, too. I'm just thinking about my own respective roles within the institution. Always outward facing, but nonetheless in my current role. Just like in your current role, being on the field, it's just where everything happens and it's for me, and I see it from you, too, is that's where your heart lies?

 

00:05:25 - Julie Clowes

It is. And it's you know, people always ask me, like, well, you could go be a consultant, make a lot of money. But because I see a lot of these people that don't have those kind of resources to pay for, you know, the top notch consultant firms and all of that. But they have such a great idea and they are really committed to seeing it through. And like, I love seeing that. I love being a part of that journey in some little way, shape or form. So that's really what has driven me to public service, because I love being able to provide that for people who might not otherwise have a way to afford it or be tapped into resources. And I'm sure you have the same kind of commitment.

 

00:06:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's right. That's right. We certainly do. And speaking of which, those who we serve are in quite a bit of pain. I'm just gonna call it that. That's the only word that comes to me right now. Both in economic injury as it relates to the aftermath of the Eaton fires, or just the fires in general across LA county, and then more economic injury than physical injury of the establishment of the business. And so before I ask you really about what are the offerings of the SBA, I think I want to spend a little bit of time around how these businesses can access the SBA assistance and what steps they need to take. And then I kind of want to transition to like, what's available.

 

00:06:43 - Julie Clowes

Yeah. So the district office, you know, we're here in good times and bad, and we have all of the resources available of SBA right now. So people can find out about this information in so many different ways. They can contact us here in the district, and we usually recommend they use our email box because we're often out on the road or somewhere else, and that's [email protected]. But we also have, if they're looking for disaster-specific assistance, we have the recovery centers that are propped up across LA County right now. And all of those centers have SBA representatives that can sit down and work with you one one-on-one if you want to apply for any of the assistance that we'll talk about in a little bit. And then another way people can reach us, especially if you're a business owner, is through our extensive network of resources that we have. We have business advisors in multiple programs and that again are spread out across the county, whether you're Small Business Development Centers, Women Business Centers, our SCORE mentors, and we have a Veteran Business Outreach Center. So if you stumble into any one of those or look those up or are already working with an advisor. They can certainly connect you with all of the resources of SBA as well. And then there's a good old-fashioned phone.

 

00:08:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Yeah.

 

00:08:04 - Julie Clowes

Which seems so old school now.

 

00:08:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Yeah, yeah. The SBA, until I got into this work of being a public servant, I didn't really recognize or understand all of what is available to our business community. And the SBA has an enormous amount of resources, those of which you just mentioned. Right. From a technical assistance provider through the SBDC, the Small Business Development Center, the Women's Business Center, the Veterans Centers, the score, all of those. That said, those are all entities so that our listener understands those are all entities that could help support our business owners to access loans. This is one of the things, one of many things that they assist with. So that said, these business centers or these technical assistance programs that assist our business owners in accessing the loans. Can you break down for us what are the three loans right now, disaster loan programs available, and how and who are they designed to help?

 

00:09:06 - Julie Clowes

Sure. So when it comes to the disaster assistance programs, we do have three different loan programs. And I tell people that just because we have business in our name, in the times of disaster, we're actually here to help everyone. So whether you're a homeowner, a renter, a business of any size, actually, or a private nonprofit organization, between our three programs, we do have something that can assist you. And if you are both a homeowner and a business owner that has been dually impacted, you know, you can combine these programs together as well to kind of help you with both on your home side and on your business side with your recovery journey. The three programs are all loan programs. And so for homeowners and renters, we do have a loan program that allows you to receive funds to help repair or replace disaster-damaged property. That includes real estate, but it also includes your personal property and then even includes things like automobiles. So homeowners can borrow up to $500,000 to help repair or replace their real estate. Then, for personal property, our loan limit is $100,000, and those can be combined. So it could be up to $600,000 for a homeowner. On the flip side, for businesses, we also offer a loan that will help them repair or replace their real estate if they own the building that their business is located in, but also anything inside the business. Right. So it can include inventory. If you have equipment or machinery, or just the fixtures and furniture, whatever it is that has been either damaged or completely destroyed, the program can assist. And this program will work. For businesses of any size and also for nonprofit organizations. We have a limit of $2 million on that program. And then the third piece for businesses, and this is only for small businesses and nonprofits, is our Economic Injury Disaster Loan, or EIDL. A lot of people heard about this program during the pandemic. Very popular then, this is working capital. So this is for businesses that they may have been directly impacted by the fire or they may not, but they have been impacted economically. There are dozens of reasons why a business anywhere in LA County could have been impacted as a result of the fires and the winds. Maybe you were fortunate enough to have your business remain intact, but your customers were maybe in the fire zone. So you've lost business, you've maybe had contracts that were canceled, your employees maybe were impacted, and that impacts your ability to operate normally. You know, lots of reasons. And so this is meant for those businesses that need. Think of it almost like a bridge loan, some working capital to help them get through their recovery period until we get to a place where they can start earning their normal revenue again or hopefully increase their revenue. So this loan helps them pay their ordinary business expenses. You know, whether you have a lease or a mortgage or utilities and inventory and, you know, employee salaries, etc.

 

00:12:11 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Oftentimes what we hear on the field is SBA does not apply to me because I'm an independent contractor or I'm a home based business and there's misconception about, and misinformation maybe that those individuals do not qualify for an SBA loan. You kind of already answered this question, but what do they need to know? What do independent contractors and home based businesses need to know about qualifying for aid from the SBA?

 

00:12:40 - Julie Clowes

The first thing I would tell people is please don't disqualify yourself. There's lots of nuances, right? Especially when it's coming to independent contractors. There's a lot of different questions. If you're an independent contractor, that SBA will ask you to kind of understand more about your role and how you're operating as an independent contractor. So it's not an automatic yes and it's not an automatic no. There's a lot of different factors we'll take take into consideration. So I do encourage people to go ahead and apply and then let SBA ask you the question so that we're able to make a determination on your eligibility. Please don't automatically think you won't qualify. And home based businesses are typically even easier to qualify because if you are operating as a business, it doesn't matter where you're based, whether you have a brick and mortar site or whether you're operating out of your home, whether you're engaged in ecosystem commerce, whether you know you're on the street selling goods and services, the business test is pretty easy. You know, if you're filing taxes as a Schedule C or LLC or any other form of business, you would qualify for this program. So if you have a unique scenario or an independent contractor, please don't hesitate to apply if you're interested in these programs and let SBA make that determination.

 

00:13:55 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

For, you know, sometimes when we think about these resources, they may not relate to us because for XY reasons. Might you be able to share real life examples of businesses that have leveraged the SBA programs and the outcomes and successes of that?

 

00:14:12 - Julie Clowes

You know, I've been in many parts of the country and seen different types of disasters. And I will say that the one theme or the thread that really helps these businesses through what impresses me is the resiliency of the community when things happen. Prior to this fire, the worst wildfire I had experienced personally was up in Northern California with the Tubbs fire in Santa Rosa. There were a lot of businesses that were impacted. Again, it's similar to what we have here in directly and indirectly. So lots of different needs. But there was one restaurant that I remember speaking, speaking with a bit, and they pretty much lost the restaurant in the fire and they really had to rebuild everything from ground up. And so they were thinking of creative ways to keep their business alive, to have some sort of revenue and to have some sort of presence even in the community. So they pivoted to a food truck and they were able to get a food truck and they were able to stay in the community and even assist feeding first responders and others that were in the community and helping them with their rebuilding and recovery process. And this kept them in the community. It kept their name visible. And they leveraged the business loan in order to help them rebuild. So insurance proceeds coupled with this loan enabled them to rebuild. And, you know, and actually they were a little bit excited. They got a whole brand new kitchen out of it because everything was modern, and all the appliances were modern and up to date. So that just even helped create some more efficiencies for them as they brought it back. And I think that, you know, food trucks didn't necessarily give them the same level of revenue as the brick-and-mortar business, but they did keep their name in the community. And so when they did, they were able to reopen. There was that excitement from the community that they were able to come back.

 

00:15:59 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Yeah, that's a really great story. I mean, especially, you know, a restaurant that naturally brings synergy within a community. When that's absent, it affects so many different people in so many different areas. And so the fact that they were able to recover in a way that was, you know, again, to your point. Yes, it wasn't a physical building, but they still were able to recover the business and bring the community back together.

 

00:16:23 - Julie Clowes

You know, not saying it was easy, but they just stuck with it. It always amazes me. I meet so many businesses where no matter how devastated or how impacted they may be, they are always looking at other people like, well, they're worse off, so I can help them. That just always sticks with me. And one of the reasons why I love small business.

 

00:16:42 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's right, yeah. I mean, the way the community fuses together to support one another is impressive. And none of this works just like us, right? As an institution, when we respond to anything within our community, we are always leaning on other agencies and other partners because this work cannot be done on its own. Right. Any work, any kind of recovery effort, any kind of assistance effort, any kind of response to whatever within our communities. And so what I'm curious about is what other agencies the SBA aligns with or leans on for support during times like this.

 

00:17:23 - Julie Clowes

Yeah, that's a great question. Because it really does take all of us to help, especially with fires and how devastating they are, and the fact that it does take time to rebuild the community, as we keep saying, it's a marathon, not a sprint. So immediately, with disasters, especially these presidentially declared disasters, SBA goes in with FEMA automatically. So FEMA has been kind of our primary partner in disasters for as long as I've been with the agency, at least. And the resources are complementary. Right. A lot of the FEMA assistance is targeted to the individual to take care of immediate needs like shelter, making sure you have access to food and the essentials that you need and can afford to get some of those things. And then SBA kind of comes in for the longer term recovery side. But in the meantime, too, there's lots of other agencies. When we look at longer-term recovery, we're not just looking at our federal agency partners, we're also looking at local government especially, and here of the county and the cities that are leading the efforts to help rebuild these communities. And I think as we get further into the recovery, we have these loan programs which are great, but we'll be looking at all of SBA? And how do all of the different programs and services come into play as we look at the longer-term recovery? Like, what can we utilize in six months, in a year, in two years? And, you know, encouraging some of the communities to think about leveraging some of the tools that we have as a way to help bring back those commercial corridors and really bring more business into the areas that were devastated. So I'm looking forward to having some of those conversations, whether it be about other financial assistance, whether they're leveraging our technical assistance providers, and then also looking at other opportunities through contracting and any of those means. So I think leveraging all of the assistance at SBA brings to the table to help the community rebound and support. And those conversations are starting already with county governments, with city governments, and even the state of California, if they may be able to bring additional resources to support their recovery as well.

 

00:19:31 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Do you think that there might need to be policy changes related to disaster prone areas in support of the small business community? You've gone through a multitude of disaster recovery efforts across the country, as you mentioned earlier. Just curious about policy changes.

 

00:19:51 - Julie Clowes

Yeah, I think this could be its own show altogether. Just as one question, and you know, there's a lot of differing opinions on this topic, and I will not ever claim that I am the expert on this area, but I think it's worth the conversations. And you know, the needs are different in different places around the country as well. I personally would like to see more emphasis on mitigation efforts and the building resiliency. The one thing and you know, the good times when things are calm, we all know it's important to prepare for when things aren't calm or things that may disrupt our business. We know that intellectually, but we're busy. Right. As a small business owner in particular, you wear so many hats, you're always busy and you're like, I'll get to it later, and then later never comes. So I would love to find ways that we can have more robust mitigation efforts and then also enhance the ability for these businesses to have the tools and resources to seriously plan for any sort of business disruption, whether it's from a natural disaster or whether it's cyber or any other things that could disrupt the business. So maybe it's not just disaster assistance, it's disruption.

 

00:21:01 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

I love that word. I really do. I don't shy away from it at all. And sometimes it's needed and sometimes I would even add calculated disruption. Right. You and I both know what we're Talking about. But it's necessary if we are truly invested in supporting and changing the trajectory of our small business community in a way that not only supports them now, but but also positions them for greater support in the future should anything happen. Right. As humans. Right. We have a tendency of being very reactive, and as organizations, we do, too. And so to have more of a proactive framework by which we support our small business community.

 

00:21:44 - Julie Clowes

Yes. Because I think it's trying to turn what we all know we should do into some very actionable resources for the businesses so that it's. And I think sometimes it's a little overwhelming to think about it, too. Right. And so how do we break that down? So it's a process that they can think through in a very reasonable way, but actually be ready for whenever something hits that you're not sitting there scrambling like, oh, my gosh, what do I do? What do I do? Like, no, I have a plan. I can enact this plan.

 

00:22:12 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's right. It is overwhelming, and we're feeling it right now. I mean, I'm certain that there may be listeners who have been impacted by the fire, which leads me to ask you, this is what is their first step they should take? Because I, as a practitioner, I'm overwhelmed. And I have access. Right. I have access to all the knowledge for a business owner. To your point earlier, you know, is so embedded within the work of the business that, quite frankly, doesn't have the time or the bandwidth to do a lot of that other proactive planning. But now are faced with this impact, what is the first step that they should be taking as it relates to support and help?

 

00:22:53 - Julie Clowes

Yes. For those impacted, I would say go ahead and apply for the assistance programs. All of the programs I can think of that are available right now do have a narrow window of eligibility of application. They all have expiration dates. With SBA's programs, for example, for the physical loans, March 10th is the actual deadline to apply. So my thought is, like, even though you're not certain maybe how you want to utilize all these programs, I do say apply, get yourself into the queue, the application queue, and preserve the ability to tap into these resources beyond that March 10 deadline. With SBA's program, for example, if you decide you don't want the loan, at the end of the day, SBA offers you, and you're like, you know, know, I think I can manage without it. That's okay. You can say no, and there'll be nothing punitive or negative that happens as a result of that. You can take A lesser amount than what SBA might offer you. But what I don't want people to do is get two months from now and say, gosh, I wish I would have applied and it's too late. So I will say, like, apply for the assistance, because try to get everything you might be eligible for, and then you can figure out how you want to best utilize those resources. But get in those cues, go through the applications. You know, a lot of the assistants, FEMA and SBA both have active programs right now. There are smaller ones that pop up from, like, the county of LA has a grant program they just launched. And there might be some that are industry specific. I've seen some trade associations and others that are offering assistance. I would say go ahead and apply. Don't disqualify yourself from anything. Apply for it all. And then when you get the results of those applications, you at least have the resources at your disposal, and you can decide how that's going to best help you rebuild your business.

 

00:24:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That is my golden takeaway from this entire conversation. I love the phrase you use: preserve your spot in the queue. See, that's something I didn't know.

 

00:24:55 - Julie Clowes

That's right, because we know there's lots of situations, so you get that approval and you can talk to SBA at that time to see, like, well, if I got a home loan, for example, or business loan, I know I can't rebuild tomorrow. Right. We still have to do debris removal and lots of steps. Utilities have to be reconnected. There's lots of things that have to happen. So talk to them about, how long can I let this money sit there before I draw it down? Because there's no point in drawing down the funds if you can't utilize them right away. So, yes, I would say tap into these resources. Make sure you're able to preserve your ability to utilize them should you want to later on when you maybe have more information and more data and you're in a better place to make those financial decisions. But don't lose out on the opportunities.

 

00:25:43 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's right. I love that. I love that. Listen, I know your schedule is really impacted, Julie, and this has been incredibly informative, and I know that our listener feels the same way. You've mentioned a few websites up in the beginning of the conversation. Tell us again where our listener can learn more about the SBA disaster loans and disaster support services, as well as other resources and services of the SBA. And then if they wanted to connect with you, what's the best way that they can?

 

00:26:12 - Julie Clowes

So the Website is very simple. SBA.gov, and for the disaster program, you will see there's actually a banner at the top of that website right now. So it'll take you right into the information on the California wildfires. So if you don't remember anything else, just remember SBA.gov but that also is the introduction to all of our programs and services. There's even a local assistance tab on there that you can drop in your zip code and it'll show you where the closest resources are to you, whether it's our district office, whether it's our SBDCs, our women business centers and the like. So that's a really easy way to find something close by you. And then to reach me and my team specifically, our email is probably best. It's a monitored box, so they'll get a fast response. And that is [email protected].

 

00:27:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Excellent. We'll be sure to put it in the show notes so that everyone has access. Julie, thank you so much. Again, your support has been instrumental for us at Pasadena City College and our community, not only in light of the disaster, but pre and post and everything in between. Like, I mean, you've just been an absolute gem to us and we don't take that for granted. We really don't. Thank you for all that you're doing and thank you for your time. And I know that our listener had some great takeaways. Thank you so much for joining us.

 

00:27:37 - Julie Clowes

Well, we appreciate your partnership. So thank you for helping us in all the capacities that you do and supporting, supporting the program so that we can support collectively the small business community.

 

00:27:48 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

You're welcome. It is our honor. Thank you so much. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.