Transcript- Episode 142: Championing Women Entrepreneurs in Male-Dominated Industries with Corinne Goble, CEO of Association of Women's Business Centers Episode 142

00:00:00 - Corinne Goble

Let's look for the opportunities to become more efficient, to become like leaner, meaner businesses. Leaner, meaner organizations that support those businesses so that we can weather the storm and so that on the other side of it we're stronger and can really look back on this as something like, okay, well, that was an opportunity and now we're better for it.

 

00:00:27 - Christina Barsi

The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?

 

00:00:52 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.

 

00:01:01 - Christina Barsi

And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co host of this podcast.

 

00:01:04 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.

 

00:01:38 - Christina Barsi

We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.

 

00:01:46 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're joined by Corinne Goble, the CEO of the Association of Women's Business Centers, AWBC. Since taking the helm in 2019, Corinne has worked to enhance the AWBC's sustainability and capacity, particularly during the pandemic when she led efforts to secure critical funding for women entrepreneurs through the CARES Act. Under her leadership, the AWBC supported over 145 Women's Business Centers, helping small businesses navigate challenges like access to capital, digital skills, and international trade. In today's conversation, we'll explore the tools and strategies that are helping women entrepreneurs thrive, especially in the context of shifting economic realities. We'll discuss navigating challenges like access to capital, the importance of non-traditional funding sources, and how educational institutions can better equip future leaders to succeed in the evolving workforce. Corinne, welcome.

 

00:03:04 - Corinne Goble

Well, thank you so much. It's great to be here.

 

00:03:06 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. You know, I'm going to dive right in, if that's okay. You know, you have spent years working with women entrepreneurs and small businesses, and you have an interesting path. I'd like if you could please share what inspired you to pursue this path and how did it shape the work that you do today?

 

00:03:26 - Corinne Goble

Working in this space with entrepreneurs, I don't get a chance to really tell the story about how I got here. And it's not glamorous at all. It's kind of a painful story. I grew up in a really difficult situation or circumstances where my dad, who passed away in 2019. My dad was a biker, like a motorcycle gang member leader. He was the vice president of a gang, and he and my mom met riding motorcycles and were major, like, party animals. And so this is not the typical entrepreneurship story, but I suspect they learned about earning money and selling product in a very illegal way. And it turned out that through a couple of circumstances, and I won't belabor the story accidentally, my parents started a business because my dad worked at a taxi company, and they started transporting envelopes from the local airport. And the taxi company said, "We don't want to be moving product. We want to move only people." So my dad left the company with a bunch of customers. And by the way, here's a hack. The best way to start a business is if you already have customers. Like, that's lesson number one. I've learned from this story. But my dad was not running the company well. He was more interested in watching soap operas in the afternoon, turning off the phones where the customers will be calling. And it frustrated my mom, and so she ended up kicking him out of the company. And my mom, she not only built what became a multi-million dollar company, she ran it really well. And she modeled for me what entrepreneurship was, and I think what made it more impactful to me, she did this in a man's world, in a trucking, like, western Michigan environment. And I got to see what being strong because you're good at what you do really looks like.

 

00:05:20 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's a beautiful story. I know you were saying, like, it's not the most traditional way of starting the entrepreneurial journey, but nonetheless, it's a journey, right? Everyone's journey is different. And you seen it firsthand. You extracted all of the beauties and not-so-good things about entrepreneurship because it is rocky, right? I mean, we don't. It's not a glamorous endeavor. It takes a lot of sweat equity and time, perseverance, and resilience. An organization like ours is to nurture, assist, navigate, and guide entrepreneurs, which leads me to ask you about your perspective on organizations or individuals who are interested in supporting women entrepreneurs in overcoming their largest challenge, which you and I both know is typically access to capital. What would be, you know, in your perspective, the first step for either organizations or individuals looking to better support our women entrepreneurs?

 

00:06:22 - Corinne Goble

Well, I love this question because I think it has to start with those organizations do need to understand the challenges of the specific target audience. Like not all women-owned businesses have the same needs. I mean a startup needs very different things and the way they're going to come into capital is going to look very different. Service sector versus consumer products looks very different. More advanced businesses, like stage two or larger, also have different challenges and need different things. So it starts with first understanding what type of businesses are we looking at, where in the spectrum are they and what types of capital are appropriate. You know, we lump all the funding together, like, oh, it's all capital. Well, there's debt capital, there's equity capital. Not all business owners have the same appetite for the same kind of risk or want to dilute their company's ownership by giving away a piece of the company just to get money in the door. And yet other business owners don't necessarily feel comfortable bringing on a loan. They don't want to look at something they have to pay back. What I will say is it's just as important for a business to get access to capital as it is that they get the right kind of capital. You know, again, as those organizations that are out there to assist, those entrepreneurs need to understand those business needs. They also have to really understand the ecosystem around capital. There's crowdfunding. You know, you've got your gofundmes, your angel links, lots of really unique and interesting capital options. And we can really spend a lot of time as entrepreneurs or the organizations helping them, kind of spinning our wheels, maybe pursuing the wrong type if we're not really well informed, and kind of already know how to do a good match. And so I think it starts there and then it's understanding once we've identified what's the right capital for that business owner, what's all required. The worst thing we can do, in my opinion, is send someone into a lender or a capital provider ill-prepared because they're going to be embarrassed, and it's going to really hurt their confidence. And once it hurts their confidence, that's going to hurt their desire, their appetite to go back again and ask for that capital. So really making sure they're well prepared for that type of capital so that if they go in and they do get a no, they know they were still prepared and they're much more likely to go back, you know, and take another bite at the apple and setting expectations with them too that, hey, it's really common to get no's and you just have to be persevering until you can get that yes. So hope that's helpful.

 

00:09:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

It is. It absolutely is. It also makes me think about how access to capital, I appreciate the way you broke it down as to what type of capital that's critical and important. And it's also a turning point. You know, access to capital, depending on the capital type, is always a turning point for businesses, good, bad, or indifferent. Right. Because we've seen it all. The other turning point that I was thinking about was the pandemic, right? And how the pandemic was massive is not a strong enough word, right? When we think about turning points for many businesses, including the Women's Business Centers. So I wanted to kind of just shift a little bit. When we think about turning points, how did the response of the AWBC during the COVID crisis reshape your vision for the future of Women's Business Centers and the association?

 

00:10:01 - Corinne Goble

The first thing is that we are not smarter than everyone else. We got a little bit lucky, and we had smart people around us. You know, some people aren't really familiar with history or don't remember the timeline, but in January, this is when Congress started talking about the CARES Act. And if you remember, in January, there really felt like at the time that there were only like rumors of cases popping up. And here we had Congress contemplating a billion-dollar funding package in response to a pandemic we weren't even in yet. And, and I am embarrassed to say, when our government affairs team said we're talking to Congress about writing in funding for Women's Business Centers, I kind of laughed, like, why are we even talking about this? But sure, go ahead. You have my approval. Ask for the funding. Well, let me tell you what, that was pivotal because it turned into funding for Women's Business Centers at a level that we had never seen before. And that lesson of bringing extra dollars into the women's business center showed them what they were capable of with now that they had more resources. So at a time when the world was really suffering, we had more resources than we'd ever had and we made a bigger impact than we'd ever had. So lots of lessons to learn out of that. But the other thing I think that we have to keep in mind is that when we're going through a crisis, and I'm particularly thinking about the small business owners. I mean, Main Street was the first, you know, to be fully impacted, obviously, besides the health aspect. Right. But like in our economy, it's Main Street that got hit. It's your small stores, retail stores, that got closed. You could still go to Home Depot, but you couldn't go to your local hardware store or local retail. So there had to be some real serious reprogramming and retooling and efficiency that had to come to bear. And if we would have known on day one how long we were having to endure this, we might have even approached it a little bit differently. But now we've all been through this crisis in our lifetime. And so I really think that that helps us be ready and hopefully be more resilient and prepared for the next whatever that crisis looks like. So I think the lesson that we need to take out of that is like, let's look for the opportunities to become more efficient, to become like leaner, meaner businesses. Leaner, meaner organizations that support those businesses so that we can weather the storm and so that on the other side of it we're stronger and can really look back on this as something like, okay, well that was an opportunity and now we're better for it.

 

00:12:44 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Exactly. And I kind of want to expand a little bit, though, on the role of the Women's Business Centers, because we talked about, you know, navigating difficult financial times with access to capital and types. Then we also talked about, well, not really talked about, but kind of embedded in that is government policy changes. And we saw a lot of that actually during the pandemic as well. And we're going to continue to see it as we move forward in the future, expand a little bit for me on the role that Women's Business Centers play in that space.

 

00:13:14 - Corinne Goble

Well, I really am not exaggerating when I tell you Women's Business Centers were the lifeline for many of these businesses. No one else, I mean, I have data to share that no one else was there for those women owned businesses. And Women's Business Centers were, I recall, several, several days and nights where like, I would be working late and I was pulling together information for congress on different resources and things like that. And, and I'd want to double check a phone number to be sure the number I'm providing is the Right number. I'd be dialing this number at 11:00 Eastern Time, and a women's business center would pick up the phone at 11pm that's amazing. I saw in the service they were providing that way. But then to hear the stories from the entrepreneurs that said, had it not been for the women's business center that told me about PPP, I'm not kidding you. I met a woman-owned business in Watsonville, California last week, had the luxury to go there, visit some Women's Business Centers, and to participate in an event. And this beautiful Mexican restaurant owner, she said, we were in the middle of the pandemic, and I never even knew about PPP until Carmen @ El Pajaro told me about it. And she said, we applied and we got round one and it was forgiven. And then we got round two and it was forgiven. And she said, had it not been for PPP, my business wouldn't be in existence. Like that, the business owner didn't have the time to research. She had no idea about those resources. Her banker wasn't calling her like my banker called me and said, “Where’s your PPP application? I need you to get it in.” And so had it not been, you know, Women's Business Center, so many of our businesses wouldn't have even survived.

 

00:14:53 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Yeah, it underscores the value, the importance, the need, the everything that, you know, supporting entrepreneurship comes in various shapes and sizes and through associations. But what you said just moments ago, you said there was literally no one a seat, women owned businesses. That really struck me. I hadn't thought about it through that lens. I hadn't seen it through that lens until you just said it right now. And it's like, she's right, she's right. The Women's Business Centers were the only ones really stepping up and providing the services needed to not only access to capital, technical services, but also a support mechanism, a support group to kind of work through and talk through things in a way that maybe other spaces didn't provide. So I really appreciate you sharing that with me because when we start to cultivate and nurture like our future entrepreneurs, I can't help but think about all of what you just said and what approach should we be using so that our future entrepreneurs have the ability to navigate, you know, their digital skills funding in global markets. Right. And so my question to you now would be like, what are some key shifts in how women in business should be approaching digital skills funding in global markets as we start to cultivate this new era of entrepreneurs?

 

00:16:15 - Corinne Goble

So, I have a day to answer this, right? Like you're giving me like a good 12 or 24 hours to do like a long response because there's so much in it. I mean, when we talk about digital, like then it brings about cybersecurity and AI and all of the things you have to be able to navigate. There are so many, like potholes, if not landmines in that world that there's no way to give comprehensive advice right in a little, in a nice cute sound bite. And so you really have to surround yourself with the experts who can guide you through and anticipate where those landmines are, anticipate those speed bumps. Nobody wants to hit them. You really want to be able to move around them in the most efficient way possible. That sounds like it could be expensive. And you know, just to kind of echo back to the previous question, the Women's Business Centers don't cost that kind of money, but can help with referrals and can help build that support mechanism around you for the type of advice that you actually need. It's always makes me almost sad when I'm talking to a room of women owned businesses and they say over and over again, I didn't know all of these resources were here for us. I didn't know that all of this was available. Well, you need to ask your women's business center because they can point you in the right direction. Let's just talk about digital for a second. There's no way you can be expected as a business owner to know and understand all of the cybersecurity risks associated with your website, especially if it's e-commerce, and even more so if you need to be compliant with the European Union standards, et cetera. Why would you spend your time, your valuable time becoming an expert in all of those areas when there are people out there who can very quickly get you what you need and it meets those requirements. So we as women in particular tend to trust people. And then once we've sort of like forged that trust, we never second-guess, we never check back up on them. And so this is like, if we could highlight some things, I want to say this is one of them right here. It's like, do your homework and make sure your experts really are experts. Maybe they started out really great, but like you want to come back and check their work later, and when you get solicitations. So let's say we're talking about an IT firm. You've got an IT firm or consultant that helps you with your e-commerce site. You've been rocking and rolling great for five years and everything's wonderful. You know, you're getting solicitations from someone else, and rather than just saying no, say, audit what we've got and tell me everything my current IT provider is doing wrong so that I can go back and check their work. It doesn't mean you're about to go fire them. It just means you need to know if they're really, you know, what they're doing for you. And, I would say with your accountant and your taxes, do the same thing. If you're doing international trade, there's so much with customs work. Any kind of consultants that you're bringing on board, if they're really important and integral to your business and they're a key part of your risk mitigation, they need to be someone you can double-check and check their work.

 

00:19:28 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Right. And feel comfortable in doing so, and them not being threatened by it either.

 

00:19:32 - Corinne Goble

You're not saying you don't trust them. You're just saying, I value my business, and I need to make sure that I'm getting what I need for what I'm paying.

 

00:19:38 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's right. Yeah. Thank you for that. I want to shift gears just a little bit. I would really like to hear your perspective around education and workforce, because in this space of entrepreneurship, naturally, we are embedding ourselves and being influencers within the workforce space. Naturally. But I want to talk about those two together. The workforce landscape and community colleges. So, considering those two and how they're evolving, how can schools help create pathways for women, especially in traditionally male-dominated industries?

 

00:20:17 - Corinne Goble

Well, I have experience in this, and this may be shocking to you, so before I came to AWBC, I actually worked for an international car company. And I had the best job there. I spent 10 years there. And one of my roles was to be the corporate philanthropist. And in that role, I had the opportunity to serve on a high school-level charter school. It's a so public charter college and career academy in Georgia. This is not the kind of species of school that's available everywhere, I realized. But it gave me a unique perspective about these technical pathways in how we're getting students into the places where the workforce is needed. Right. And a college and career academy is designed really to feed students into those community colleges and technical schools. I also at that time served on the Technical College System of Georgia foundation board. So I also had that perspective to share. But whether it's high school or at the technical college area, I think the important part there is to really be Open and promoting the programs in a way that's appealing to everyone. And of course, including women. Obviously, what we tend to see is the recruiting, the culture, the materials, everything seems to be targeting the existing audience. What's speaking to the male-dominated students instead of women? So women need to see themselves. They need to see themselves in the recruiting and in the materials. So if you're trying to recruit women, then send a woman in. I've got a really great example. A good friend of mine she's one of my best friends in North Dakota. She's actually a trained mechanical engineer, and she was helping their school in recruiting engineers in Bismarck. She actually did a demonstration about how a beauty tool works. Instead of talking about, like some other, you know, like a piston. If we want to talk about engineering, then let's talk about something that our audience is interested in and use that example. If we want to bring women in, then bring it in in a way that they'd be interested. A woman might not be as interested in the way a piston operates. And so I think it's kind of common sense. Like if we want to create a space for women, then let's talk about things that women care about, and let's have women in those conversations, and let's put women at the table. We had a woman CEO at the College and Career Academy, and it made all the difference. When they first launched that academy, we had zero women in the mechatronics program. And when I left that board, 50% of our students in mechatronics were women. And it's because a woman knows how to bring women in. So putting women in those leadership positions really helped. I'm not sure if that got to all the aspects of that question that you wanted.

 

00:23:09 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Yeah, no, it really did. I mean, I always think about community colleges and technical schools working together, those that are hyper-focused on the specific trade, and of course, community colleges that have breadth of career technical educational programs. And you know, we're always looking for ways to kind of help create additional pathways for women and in these very prominent male-dominated industries. And the example you gave was just perfect. Yes, it makes total sense. And sometimes we don't even think about common sense. Right. Like we're trying to find this magic potion. It's like, well, hello, let's just get back to the core of basics.

 

00:23:44 - Corinne Goble

We have to look at high school, too. We can't just in a vacuum examine where we are and say, well, we're failing. Because the number of women in these community college or technical college classes, women aren't represented in these classes. Well, we are feeding them from the high schools. What's happening there are math teachers supporting girls in their classes? Are they telling their students that they think they have great potential in the areas of where they're interested? Are math teachers, and this is just a question, right? Like, are the math teachers in high school telling those female students, wow, you're really great at this? It doesn't take much to just say something like that to give that woman the confidence that she could pursue something, you know, in a math or technical field.

 

00:24:31 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Right, right. And you mentioned leadership at the tail end. You said also preparing women for leadership roles. And so let's sit there for a minute. Specifically, what do you think are some kind of like fundamental shifts that need to happen both from an academic perspective and an industry perspective? What needs to happen to ensure that women are well equipped for leadership roles in the future, whether it's a male dominated industry or not?

 

00:24:58 - Corinne Goble

I don't have a perfect answer to this question. It's one I ask myself a lot. And I don't know if it's just I'm narcissistic, but I think about myself as a leader and I wonder, like, am I well equipped to be in the role that I'm in with the challenges that I face, with what I really want us to accomplish as an organization and as a community, Am I the right person here? And I don't even necessarily. I mean, I'm confident and I feel good about the work we're doing. But I sometimes wonder if I'm not so sure I fit the bill. What is it that makes for a great leader? What I have boiled it down to, at least lately, and maybe my answer will change over the years, is that I have a willingness to step out whether or not I think I'm perfect at what I do. Like when AWBC put out the call for their CEO, I raised my hand and I said, put me in, I want in. It doesn't mean I think I'm the best. It just means I want to do this job, I want to be in this leadership role. And when I look around the room, I'm seeing more and more women also being willing to raise their hand and say put themselves in. I think we just need a lot more of that. We need more women and more feeling confident and feeling like they might not know how to do the job, but they're willing to give it a try. They may not be perfect, but they're going to do it anyway. And whether that's in politics or, you know, applying for jobs. Like, we know that women are less likely to apply for a position if they don't meet 80% of the stated qualification requirements than a man would be. And we just tend to think we have to be perfect at it in order for us, you know, to want to go try and do it. So I don't know if we have all of the skills. Your question was, are we well equipped? Are we ready? I don't know. But can we raise our hands and just try? Can we put ourselves out there and just go do it? Like, even if it's not perfect, I.

 

00:26:58 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Think you're onto something. What I took from your response was, first, you're not narcissistic. By self reflecting, you're being very, as women are very critical of ourselves and our role and what we do. But I want to kind of shift that a little bit because I'm hearing it as well, and I tell that to myself, too. And I'd like our listener to know that that's okay. It's okay to look inward. And I think that what you're saying is, like, look, I'm looking inward. I'm reflecting. I want to be the best leader that I possibly can. And so I want to give you kudos. I want to make it positive. It's certainly not a narcissistic approach at all, Corinne, but, you know, I think you're onto something. When we say, let's raise our hands, it's about creating space by which we are all an ecosystem, Right? Anyone that rises through the ranks of leadership, we're naturally competitive. It's been my experience. I don't have any data behind that, but we are naturally competitive. And so if we create environments and ecosystem by which women are supporting more women, I feel like that would be a core shift. I think that that's what you're saying too, right? Like, yes, individually, we're raising our hands, but we're also saying, let's create ecosystems within the arena of leadership, regardless of the industry that allows for women to support women in the these roles. Yeah, that was a golden piece that I took out as well. I mean, there was so many golden moments in this conversation, but that was a big one for me. Which leads me to ask you what would be one piece of advice you would give to women entrepreneurs who are just starting or struggling to scale with their business now? This is a big one. I know, I know there's more than.

 

00:28:36 - Corinne Goble

One, but I'm giving you two. You're getting a two-for-one. Deal. You're getting a two-for-one.

 

00:28:41 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's fair. Yep.

 

00:28:42 - Corinne Goble

The one thing is don't be afraid of funding, you know, and I don't know if the loan is the right thing for you either. But the biggest mistake I hear women-owned businesses make is that they weren't bold enough, soon enough. You know, these are successful women businesses I'm talking about. Look back and say, what's the regret? I wasn't bold enough, soon enough. And so, you know, if this is what you're going to do, do it. That would be the one thing. And that could be getting that loan. It's often funding-related. But the second piece of advice, your two-for-one deal here, it's the bail team. And if you haven't heard of your bail team, and this is good if you're in business or not, just everyone needs a bail team because if you get into trouble, you've got to have someone who can bail you out. But bail's an acronym, and B is having a banker that you can text with that can give you good advice. It doesn't have to be your banker where your bank accounts are, but a banker friend. But having an accountant friend, an insurance agent friend, and a lawyer friend. So your bail team, if you don't have a bail team, get a bail team and hire for your bail team, tell people, hey, how's business? Going great. But I'm really looking for the A in my bail team. Like, do you know of any accountants who just want to be friends that I can just ask for? Just like not to do my taxes for free, but just someone I can ask for kind of like advice. That's your bail team. Get one.

 

00:30:03 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

I love that. That's excellent. And I would, you know, I'm going to just throw a plug because, might as well, Women's Business Centers can be part of that bail team.

 

00:30:14 - Corinne Goble

That's absolutely right. They could maybe fill in for a number. They have consultants that are a letter that could fill in for a letter or help you find one, too.

 

00:30:21 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

That's right. That's right. Thank you so much. This has been beautiful. I really appreciate your time, Corinne. I know there's a lot that we're juggling at the current moment, and for you to take the time to share your words of wisdom means a lot to me and a lot to our listeners. And so if they'd like to connect with you, what is the best way that they can and engage with the AWBC?

 

00:30:43 - Corinne Goble

Well, I hope this is going to be easy. We at AWBC knew that it would be confusing for small businesses to go to our association website and navigate it because it was designed for Women's Business Centers. So we created a program, Hope2Women, where you can find us as a small business owner. That's like the right front door. You'll feel better when you come to us through that. So Hope2Women is H O P E the number two women.org, and I think it's cute. But Hope stands for helping others by promoting entrepreneurship to women. So you can request assistance or connect with us directly there. You can always look me up on LinkedIn as well.

 

00:31:23 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Excellent. Thank you so much, Corinne. We'll be sure to put those in the show notes until next time. Thank you so, so very, very much. I know that you and I will be connected throughout our journey as a women's business center host here at Pasadena. We thank you. We thank you very much for your expertise and the access to the network.

 

00:31:40 - Corinne Goble

My pleasure. Thanks for having me.

 

00:31:45 - Dr. Salvatrice Cummo

Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you subscribe on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the Show Notes to collaborate, partner, or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.