Transcript- Episode 143: Contracts, Crises, & the Cost of Survival: LA’s Hospitality Fight with Kurt Petersen, Co-President Unite Here Episode 143

Kurt Petersen [00:00:00]:

These Olympics are an opportunity where we can leverage lots of money from lots of different folks to try to build housing, to make a commitment for housing. And right now, as it stands, there's no vision to do that. But we think we need to turn the corner, turn it hard, and set in motion, you know, a path. And if we don't get what we want, well, 2028 is right around the corner. We're going to strike. We're going to disrupt. There's never been a strike during the Olympics. We're ready to do it if we don't get what we want.

 

Christina Barsi [00:00:27]:

The workforce landscape is rapidly changing and educators and their institutions need to keep up. Preparing students before they enter the workforce to make our communities and businesses stronger is at the core of getting an education. But we need to understand how to change and adjust so that we can begin to project where things are headed before we even get there. So how do we begin to predict the future?

 

Dr. Salvatrice Cummo [00:00:52]:

Hi, I'm Salvatrice Cummo, Vice President of Economic and Workforce Development at Pasadena City College and host of this podcast.

 

Christina Barsi [00:01:01]

And I'm Christina Barsi, producer and co-host of this podcast.

 

Dr. Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:04]:

And we are starting the conversation about the future of work. We'll explore topics like how education can partner with industry, how to be more equitable, and how to attain one of our highest goals, more internships and PCC Students in the workforce. We at Pasadena City College want to lead the charge in closing the gap between what our students are learning and what the demands of the workforce will be once they enter. This is a conversation that impacts all of us. You, the employers, the policymakers, the educational institutions, and the community as a whole.

 

Christina Barsi [00:01:38]:

We believe change happens when we work together. And it all starts with having a conversation. I'm Christina Barsi.

 

Dr. Salvatrice Cummo [00:01:46]:

And I'm Salvatrice Cummo. And this is the Future of Work. Hi, welcome back to the Future of Work podcast. I am your host, Dr. Salvatrice Cummo. Today we're diving into critical discussion about labor rights, crisis response and the future of hospitality workers in Los Angeles. Joining us is someone at the forefront of this fight, Kurt Peterson, Co-President of UNITE HERE Local 11. Kurt has been a fierce advocate for workers rights, organizing thousands of hospitality and service industry workers across Southern California and Arizona. He has played a key role in securing labor protections during crises like COVIDv19 pandemic. And now, in the wake of the devastating LA fires, he is leading efforts to ensure workers are not left behind. His work has been instrumental in passing right to return laws and fighting against corporate exploitation of vulnerable workers.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:02:47]:

Today we'll explore the impact of the recent LA fires on hospitality workers, how unions are fighting to protect employees in times of of crisis, and what major upcoming events mean for the future of labor rights in Los Angeles. Kurt, welcome to the Future of Work podcast. Thank you for being here.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:03:04]:

Thank you for having us on. We really appreciate it.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:03:06]:

Absolutely, absolutely. I think we're just going to get right into this conversation and I always like to begin with journey and how one got to where they are now. Before diving into some, you know, major topics that we will. In a minute, let's learn a little bit about you. If you could share a little bit about what led you to labor organizing and what has your journey with UNITE HERE Local 11 has been like.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:03:31]:

Yeah, I appreciate that I have the privilege of working with working people who are fighting to change their lives. And the moment that the light dawned on me that that's what I wanted to do was shortly after college, I was debating whether I was going to become a priest or not. I was dating someone at the time, was now my wife. So that didn't work out. But what attracted me in that vocation was liberation theology and, you know, the fight the preferential option for the poor and that, you know, Christ came down to liberate and help people struggle. So that was something that really moved me. And after I moved on from college and trying to figure out what to do, I did a little community organizing, which was great. And then I stumbled upon union organizing, starting with United Farm Workers in Washington State.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:04:22]:

And what I felt, and still feel, is that everyone has a common interest at work. They share the goal of being treated with dignity, earning more, having a say. And that's a little challenging to find in community organizing. Not to say that it's not incredibly valuable and important, but some people want streetlights, some people want, you know, liquor stores gone or whatever. So this really attracted me. I've been doing it for the last 30 years or so. I mean, I like to fight. I don't know where it came from, but I like being in struggle and I like winning probably too much more than I should.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:04:52]:

And I love watching people who walk through, you know, struggles and become stronger and stronger people. So, yeah, I've been doing for many, many years and about the last 30 years here in Los Angeles, there's always.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:05:04]:

Has to be a champion. And we definitely thank you for being that champion for our hospitality workers. And, you know, just thinking about the most recent devastation that we have faced as a county during the LA fires. Can you Tell a little bit about how have the LA fires affected hospitality service workers? I think part two to that would be, Kurt, you know, what are the biggest challenges that workers are facing right now?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:05:28]:

Yeah, unfortunately, as we've seen, you know, the combination of climate change and pandemics and financial downturns. I can remember 9/11, actually, when the buildings came down and tourism stopped and then we had the financial disaster, 2008, tourism stopped and then we had the pandemic and then the fires. There is this disasters that impact whether or not people are going to travel. And if they don't travel, our members and workers in the hospitality industry don't work. You have that in contrast to the city of Los Angeles, which is, you know, I would argue, the epicenter of tourism, given that it's, you know, we're going to have a number of mega events ending up at the Olympics. So you have on the one hand this extraordinary demand. At the same time, we have these horrible disasters and the fires are, you know, I just put it in context. We've seen this before, so we're prepared to react in ways that we weren't originally.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:06:21]:

And one of the biggest things is, you know, making sure people stay employed and making sure people keep their health insurance. That was even more important during the pandemic when overnight 90% of our members were out of work. And so health insurance during a pandemic became, you know, more than just essential. And the fires have had an impact on our members in terms of work. It doesn't look like we're going to have a. Well, I guess it remains to be seen how long term the dampening of tourism is going to be in our community. My guess is it will come back. It's not nearly as bad as the pandemic, but we're trying to keep people employed.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:06:56]:

We've had fights with employers. I mean, during the pandemic, I remember we had a fight with employer about closing down. They were in the zone to evacuate and they wouldn't do it because they wanted to keep the hotel full. And so, you know, there were moments like that, especially when the fires were heading down to Hollywood Hills. And then now we're in this period where, you know, workers aren't getting hours. Are they going to keep health insurance? That's really a big concern right now. It's not like the pandemic where there's just total loss of jobs. It's a little less severe.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:07:24]:

But nevertheless, it remains to be seen what comes, you know, in the midterm.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:07:28]:

Right. And thinking about the pandemic, there were certainly lessons learned across the board about many different things as it relates to operating business. Labor rights, labor exploitation. Do you feel specifically about labor exploitation? And COVID-19, and what that taught us are employers repeating the same mistakes. Now, do you see that happening now, or do you predict that it might?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:07:54]:

Without question. I mean, every single one of these disasters, and there's an author, Naomi Klein, who's written the Shock Doctrine, where employers and the right wing honestly uses these moments to push through policies or make changes. We're seeing it right now, frankly, in our country, where they otherwise might not do but for a catastrophe. And that's for sure true with employers. I don't care if you work as a writer or an actor or a teacher or a hotel worker. Employers have attempted every single time, and they certainly tried during the pandemic to have fewer workers do more work. Right. Cutting labor.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:08:28]:

If you look at the number of workers at a hotel over time, in 9/11, it dropped and it never came back up. After the financial catastrophe in 2008, it dropped and never came back. In the pandemic, we knew they were going to do it, and we have fought like crazy to stop them from doing it. I can't say that we've been wholly successful. But one thing, for example, that they tried to get away with, which, if you had asked me, I would have said no way, which was the elimination of daily room cleaning. I mean, people went to hotels before the pandemic expecting your room would be cleaned and your bed would be made. That was like one of the nice things that hotel. And during the pandemic, they tried to say, well, safety requires us not to clean the rooms.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:09:07]:

And then they tried to keep it, which was all about not safety or sanitation, but about cutting labor, less room attendants cleaning the rooms or those that had to clean them. When the rooms were finally vacated, the rooms were twice as difficult. So we ended up passing a bunch of policies all through the city, and we have them in our contract saying that mandatory daily room cleaning, because it was never about safety or sanitation. In fact, when you think about it, it's more sanitary when someone's in your room cleaning your room every day. It's also a safety issue. I mean, shortly before the pandemic, there was a horrible tragedy in Vegas where a man hoarded guns in a casino. You might remember this and wiped out. It was just horrible.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:09:47]:

And then the industry said, oh, my God, we got to go in a room every day because we got to make sure no one's Hoarding guns. Well, then the pandemic comes along, like, no, no, no, we don't need to go in every day because. But it was all about labor and saving labor. So, yes, the employers can't help themselves but to take advantage of these situations. And I think it's across the board, I think it's why workers are angry, because they saw it happen and that's why there was this mass resignation and that's why people are still pissed. Our members still are angry about it and they still in fights with the employer to get people back at work.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:15]:

Wow, I didn't know as to that gravity.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:10:18]:

Oh, it's horrible. Yeah. We've lost 20% of our membership, probably permanently because of this. And we're not the only one. You know, if you go in, there's many front desk agents. Did you wait longer there? Well, they got. Reconciliations are gone. Bell persons and valet, they've combined jobs.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:10:33]:

I can go on ird, which is called room service for folks, is pretty much gone everywhere now. They'll come up with reasons why every one of those things, you know, they have a rationale for, but at the end of the day, it's for them to have fewer people do more work or to cut labor. And that's the battle that we're, you know, nonstop inside our workplaces.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:10:50]:

And now we have our most recent crisis with these fires and employers that were affected by it. I mean, just listening to what you shared now and the impact from that, like the aftermath of that, both then and now, do you think that the hospitality industry has the ability to recover from crises like the ones that we're facing now and any future ones? I mean, it sounds like it's a slow recovery process, even from the pandemic.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:11:20]:

Yeah, I mean, no one's throwing a yard sale for the CEO of Hyatt, Marriott, or Hilton. So their stock prices are higher than they've ever been, higher than the pandemic. They have recovered. The industry has recovered. Yes, the fires, you know, were a blip and they came down and they'll but worldwide, nationally and regionally. And I mean, you go outside today, Salvatrice, and it's 74 and sunny in LA. It's the most beautiful place on earth. So tourism will survive and flourish.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:11:47]:

The question is, you know, at what cost to the workers who have, you know, put their blood, sweat and tears into making it profitable in our society? Unfortunately, they are beholden, they think, the employers, to their stock price or their shareholders or to their investors. And we, you know, our fight is to say no, you know, you also have a responsibility of the community and your responsibility, these workers. And you're not going to just work people to the bone. It just isn't going to happen. And, and workers are willing to fight. The beauty of this is that our members likewise, again, you know, you saw it during that union summer of strikes or whatever, across the board, everyone is willing to stand up and fight. My wife's a teacher. She's been on strike twice.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:12:24]:

I mean, it's just, I feel like we're at a good moment in terms of where workers are and what, you know, the anger they have and the willingness to risk their jobs in order to make things better. And same time, we have greed on a, you know, on a pace that we've never seen before.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:12:38]:

On that note, do you think that there are policies, I mean, you mentioned policies earlier, policies that are missing or are currently in the process that will affect how workers recover? I mean, the industry is recovering. Great. Sounds like, right. Yes, this is a blip, but sounds like everything is growing and moving, but now, you know, flipping the coin for the workers. Do policies need to be put in place for the recovery for the workers themselves?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:13:03]:

Yeah, I mean, it's hard because policies, no matter how careful you are in drafting them, they will always find the leak in the loophole. So, you know, the daily room cleaning mandatory law that we passed in a number of cities here, including Los Angeles, has worked. The other policy we're pushing and we're going to win is an Olympic wage for hospitality workers at the airport and at hotels for the city of Los Angeles, other municipalities, so that we link the Olympics to a living wage. We'll get to $30 an hour by 2028 for that group of workers. Problem with raising the wages, of course, is then they automatically find ways to cut workers. So ultimately, I think it is the union that does it because we're able to, you know, workers can take action on the floors, they can stop working if they think there's not enough, or they can slow stuff down and just not finish rooms or, or not finish their job when they're really well organized. And I think the strike is the weapon that we have and that we're gonna continue using in order to make sure that people aren't overworked.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:14:08]:

Right. And it sounds like to me too, that it's allowing for the industry to reexamine culture, work environment outside of policy and regulation and the right thing to do. But it sounds like they need to take a critical look at culture and Their organization and how they're structured and that the older models or the models pre pandemic and now, you know, yes, we recovered from it, are not going to work. And yes, they've cut costs, but it's not just about cutting labor. There's other things that need to take place. And I mean, you mentioned the Olympics and the other sporting events that are coming up soon, soon here. Makes me wonder, you know, do you think that LA is ready for that? Is this an economic opportunity for us and how do we benefit from it through the lens of workforce?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:15:01]:

And that's a great question and something we're wrestling with, and honestly it is. Our strategy is to use these mega events to move forward the agenda for working people. We settled all of our contracts in our hotels and, and the airports and at event centers to expire just before the Olympics in 2028. On the hotel side, the employers actually understood the value or the importance of that date because they actually offered us a couple more dollars an hour to expire in September of 2028, which would have been a couple months later. And our members rejected it unanimously. We're not going to take the money. We want to be there in 2028. So as it stands right now, unfortunately, and the fires clearly don't help it, the Olympics, at best, they'll do no harm.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:15:49]:

That is kind of the view that we have, and we think that's unfortunate. You know, la, I think, you know, made some major mistakes here. They, you know, the process for the Olympics and how it's going to be run has been subcontracted to LA28, which is run by a billionaire, and other billionaires, and they're raising money from billionaires, but they're in charge of operating it, not the city of Los Angeles. If they run a deficit, which they will, the city of Los Angeles is on the hook for hundreds of millions of dollars where there's no vision. I mean, when Eric Garcetti started this process, he was like, let's think about making this a solution for the unhoused and for our housing crisis. In fact, they actually said out loud in 2015 that we would build athletic housing, which they did do in Paris, that then would be converted into housing for working people in Los Angeles. That obviously never came to pass. So I think it's vapid of vision.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:16:43]:

It's opaque. And, you know, honestly, as we've seen with FIFA and IOC and the International Olympic Committee, it's oftentimes corrupt. And I think we're heading in that direction. So we, though Believe it should be much, much more. Do no harm or pray and hope it will get done and we won't be completely displaced. And, you know, whatever else bad happens, we think that there's time and we think there's a demand to make stuff much better for people. We think there should be a new deal for the Olympics that is transparent, that demands that workers, whether they're making garments for the athletes or work at the venues, either setting up or cooking food, are all union. And then finally, we think this needs to be about housing.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:17:22]:

We really do. Our last fight, we got our wages up to $35 an hour for a room attendant. They still can't afford to live in Los Angeles. These Olympics are an opportunity where we can leverage lots of money from lots of different folks to try to build housing, to make a commitment for housing. And right now, as it stands, there's no vision to do that. We're going to announce this new deal. We have a bunch of ideas, we have a bunch of support from coalition partners and other unions, and we think this can be transformative in a good way for working people in Los Angeles. But as it stands, it's headed down a path of will it even happen? Like you said, no one knows.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:17:57]:

But we think we need to turn the corner, turn it hard and set in motion, you know, a path. And if we don't get what we want, well, 2028's right around the corner. We're going to strike. We're going to disrupt. There's never been a strike during the Olympics. We're ready to do it if we don't get what we want.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:18:11]:

Well said. Well said. And you mentioned earlier the Olympic wage policy, you know, and preparations. And based on what you just shared now, are there other policies that are missing? Should we be considering anything else? Yes, you know, housing. I mean, your message was very clear. Kurt, do you think that there's policy that needs to be instituted with that effort? I mean, let's talk about that a little bit.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:18:35]:

Yeah, we think that another idea we had, and we put this on the table with our employers in 2023, they rebuffed it entirely, is increasing the transit occupancy tax. That's the, you know, when you get a hotel room and you look and it's, it's $200 and all of a sudden it comes out to be $350 at night. You're like, what just happened? Usually it's a combination of two things. One, it's the industry making up fees. Like, you know, suddenly they're charging you for the wireless, you know, as if that's something for $40 a night that they can get away with. We think that's not fair and wrong and they don't have a problem doing it, of course. And then secondly, though, it's a tax that most jurisdictions, including Los Angeles, charge as the guests for. It's called the transit occupancy tax.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:19:18]:

Our idea is, let's move out these extraneous fees that the industry has in there and instead increase the fee or the transit occupancy tax that LA charges to guests by 7% and maybe, maybe increase it or double it to 14%, say, or 15% during mega events when the super bowl shows up or when the World cup is here or when the Olympics are here. And our idea, would we use that money as a constant stream of pay and bill for workforce housing? We brought that up, as I said, a couple years ago. We were planning that that would have to go on the ballot, which we think we probably will try to do in a number of municipalities, because housing is a problem everywhere in our area. And so we think that's a policy that would provide a stream of revenue for housing because that's what we need more than anything right now.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:20:05]:

That's brilliant. That's a brilliant, brilliant, brilliant approach to it. I look forward to seeing how that transpires and, you know, just listening in and learning throughout that process. Shifting gears just a little bit. We talked a little bit about LA28, the Olympics, all that good stuff. And I think that there's a broader message because you touched upon very specific critical points for LA in light of the crisis, in light of the sporting events. But, Kurt, you have this opportunity to share a broader message to policymakers, employers and anyone who's listening right now. What do you want them to understand about labor rights in LA as it sits right now?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:20:51]:

Yeah. When we poll our members or do surveys, the number one, number two and number three response of need is housing. We can turn around and in 2028 and get $50 an hour. It's still not enough. Housing to us is a formula between making sure people make enough money to pay for housing, but also we need more housing. We think the employers and the industry and the Olympics are responsible for providing that housing. We need to get out of this notion that, no, it's only what's at the workplace. No, they're better off if workers have housing.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:21:28]:

The city is better off. I mean, our members live further and further. They live in places I haven't heard of. They live in California City. I can't believe people go, you know, apparently an hour and a half, two hours each way. I mean, we cannot continue this mess. And it's just not like saying, please, employers, help us. I mean, our goal is to struggle with them to extract this money.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:21:49]:

And it's gotta be billions of dollars. I mean, private equity, for example, which is, you know, a form of capital, the most current modern form. And they own practically everything. They own our hotels, they own journalism, they own housing. They're the largest owner of single family homes. I think a single owner in LA County. We need to have a struggle with them, with housing advocates and with our elected officials and with labor to extract from them, you know, billions of dollars. It's got to be billions with a B to pay for housing.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:22:20]:

There's no other way around this. The city will never, ever be able to do it on its own. In fact, the city's failing miserably. Are you familiar with, like, the numbers are kind of shocking on how many units were permitted last year in the city of Los Angeles?

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:22:34]:

I have not. Please share.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:22:36]:

Oh, my God. It's. We probably need, and I'm no expert, but people say we need 40 to 60,000 units housing built every year to get out of this. In 2020, there was 15,000 units of housing that was permitted. That was in 2020. 15,000 permit doesn't mean it'll get built, but it was permitted. Last year. In 2024, that number was 8,000 in the city of Los Angeles.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:22:59]:

And this is where we see the Olympics as an opportunity and all these mega events. We're going to be on stage, the city, the world's eyes on this. We need to demand from the, you know, the very wealthy, the billionaires and those corporations that they do their share to pay for housing. And it's going to be a struggle. They're not going to do it because of their own benevolence. So that when you ask me what it is, it starts with housing, it ends with housing. It's wages and it's production, some of it, you know, the city needs to get out of its own way. And there's something to this argument, but at the same time, we need to have more money to be able to build.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:23:30]:

Otherwise the city's gonna get worse. I don't care how. If we get the $50 an hour, as I said, for a room attendant, they still won't be able to live here. What good is that?

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:23:38]:

Right? And we're diverting the workforce elsewhere Especially because not only for existing industries, but even just the construction industry, when we think about housing, if we're not building at that capacity, where are builders building? Right? And we're diverting all that workforce. Kurt, I know we didn't really touch on this, but I am so inspired by your words and your message here today. Before I ask my final question that I ask all my guests, I wanted to ask you, this is how could we, as a body, as a system of community colleges, not just Pasadena City College, how could we be of service or of support to your organization?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:24:16]:

UNITE HERE Local 11. We have a website, and we have a bunch of fights. We are going to announce this new deal for the Olympics and Paralympics. And by the way, I made a mistake not saying Paralympics. They are an equal part of these Games and they're four extra weeks for the city, and they're just as important. So it's a new deal for the Olympics and Paralympics that we need support for that. It's about transparency, jobs and housing. It's all the things that, you know, this city should be demanding and fighting for.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:24:42]:

So we're going to announce that shortly with a couple hundred other groups, and we would love for, you know, your listeners to also join in. You'll be able to find that on our website. The last thing I'll kind of pitch is, you know, there's another struggle going on in the city of Santa Monica which relates to this in terms of, like, what should be our vision for housing and for the Olympics, and that is that the airport. There's an airport in San Santa Monica. You may or may not know that, but it's being decommissioned. And that will be 200 acres of land which right now is only allowed to be park. It can't be anything but park. It is the largest single piece of land on the west side.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:25:19]:

Of course, there should be a beautiful park there, but we think there ought to be housing as well and several thousand units. It's like the biggest possible place where we can build thousands of units of housing for police, for fire, for teachers, for room attendants. Right? This is what we should be doing anyway. That is going to happen. It's not a Pasadena thing, but by golly, this could be a transformative thing in the years to come. That airport becomes decommissioned in 28, and we hope to be able to be part of moving the city to build housing there as opposed to leaving it fallow and empty. So I say that to say there's opportunities. Like you have Altadena in your backyard.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:25:55]:

I don't know anything about Altadena, but God knows I know enough to know that we need to help. But whatever folks are thinking about there, about how to build more affordable housing, we need to get behind it. We want to stand with with you as well. So it's about solidarity at the end of the day. And that's what we all we have left.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:09]:

Thank you. What a beautiful, beautiful note to sunset our conversation. Kurt, this has been beautiful. Thank you. I foresee multiple conversations in the future. There's so much, so much more to discover and unpack. And you did mention the UNITE HERE Local 11 website. Are there other ways if our listener wanted to contact you? What is the best way to contact to be contacted? Or should we just directly send them to your site?

 

Kurt Petersen [00:26:34]:

Yeah, send them to our site. I wish I maybe can get something in, you know, an email or something like that that might be helpful, but we have a whole community organizing department that's led by one of our directors, so. And we do a lot of work in Pasadena, actually, so. Because we have hotels out there and the folks out there were just amazing during our strike. So we'll stay in touch. Thank you.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:26:52]:

All right, thank you very much. We'll be sure to enter those into the show notes. Kurt, thank you once again and we will see or talk to each other soon.

 

Kurt Petersen [00:27:00]:

Thank you so much, Salvatrice. I really appreciate it. Take care.

 

Salvatrice Cummo [00:27:03]:

You're welcome. Thank you for listening to the Future of Work podcast. Make sure you're subscribed on your favorite listening platform so you can easily get new episodes every Tuesday. You can reach out to us by clicking on the website link below in the show Notes to collaborate, partner or just chat about all things Future of Work. We'd love to connect with you. All of us here at the Future of Work and Pasadena City College wish you safety and wellness.