Episode 509: The War on Winsomeness & Interfaith Cooperation with Eboo Patel
Release Date: 05/18/2022
706: The Second Slap plus Leah Libresco Sargeant
The Holy Post
We’ve all heard the stories of people raised within American evangelicalism who became disillusioned because of abuse, scandals, or political idolatry. Some migrated to more progressive church traditions while others deconstructed their faith entirely. Joshua Harris, made famous for his seminal purity culture book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye,” was in the latter category. Harris now says he is emerging from “a season of overcorrection,” having seen the “bully energy” in progressive spaces, and that he is curious about Jesus again. Then, Katilyn talks to feminist author Leah Libresco...
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705: Minnesota, Civil Rights, & Contagious Courage with Justin Giboney
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The country is on edge after another protester was killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye look at how different Christian journalists and media outlets are covering, or not covering, the story, and what protests against ICE share in common with the Civil Rights movement, and how they’re different. Speaking of the Civil Rights era, Justin Giboney is back to discuss his new book, “Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around.” He believes too much of the American church and our politics has been captivated by the culture war, and learning from the example of the Black church,...
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704: Love is All We Need + Moderate Churches with Ryan Burge
The Holy Post
Over the last 30 years, the number of Americans who say they highly value patriotism, religion, community, and family has dropped dramatically. At the same time, the number of Americans who care about making more money has gone up. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye discuss David Brooks’ new article about the culture’s shift toward autonomy and away from loving attachments, and how Christians can begin rebuilding their social muscles. Sociologist and former pastor, Ryan Burge, is back to discuss why the political polarization of Christianity is hurting both the church and democracy. Also this week,...
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703: Hobbes vs Locke & Faith vs Politics with Senator Raphael Warnock
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Tensions have flared around the country after the fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE agent in Minneapolis, and the Department of Homeland Security has rolled out a new slogan as it defends the lethal action: “One of Ours, All of Yours.” Is the Trump administration declaring civil war on Americans? Then, two seventeenth-century philosophers, Hobbes and Locke, help us understand the divide in our politics today, but Kaitlyn explains why Christians should be hesitant to embrace either. Skye talks with Senator Raphael Warnock (D-Georgia) about his dual roles as both a senator and a pastor,...
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702: Venezuela, Vanilla Ice, & the Church’s Anxious Nerves with Sara Billups
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The new year began with a successful U.S. military operation to capture Venezuela’s president. But the mission killed approximately 80 people and is being condemned by some American and international leaders as illegal. Esau McCaulley joins Phil and Skye this week to discuss the fallout from the operation. Was it legal? Was it moral? And what does it reveal about Trump’s vision of America? Kaitlyn talks with author Sara Billups about her new book, “Nervous System,” and how our age of anxiety is affecting Christians and the whole church. Also this week—the Trump administration...
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Bothsidesism Isn’t What You Think
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Holy Post Media is no stranger to accusations of both-sidesism. Skye and Kaitlyn talk about why they believe pointing it out on both sides isn’t simple equivocation or conflict-avoidance, but instead a responsibility… depending on the context. Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this Episode: 0:00 - Intro 0:58 - Theme Song 1:18 - Defining Both-Sidesism 8:40 - Sponsor - Sponsor - Poncho - If you’ve been looking for the perfect shirt—something breathable, fits great, feels even better, and stands out in a good way—give Poncho a try. Get $10 off your...
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701: Mailbag! Decompressing, Demonology, & Dreams for 2026
The Holy Post
We’ve reached the end of 2025, so we thought it’s a good time to answer questions from the Holy Post community. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn cover a wide assortment of issues, from how they decompress after a difficult podcast, and how they pick which politicians to interview, to their favorite movies, and who is best at changing a tire. They also tackle theological questions about the nature of grace, the limitations we will still have in the new creation, and why demons may not be fallen angels. They also give their predictions for 2026. Along the way, Phil has weird ideas about hair, Skye...
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700: What Every Christian Can Learn from A.A. with John Ortberg
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Last weekend was filled with terrible news, including a mass shooting in Australia, another at Brown University, and the murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. Mike Erre joins Phil and Skye to discuss these events and why rediscovering the biblical practice of lament is better than just “thoughts and prayers.” The Catholic Church has taken a nuanced and principled position on the deportation of immigrants. Why do evangelicals find that so difficult? Then John Ortberg talks with Skye about his latest book, which applies the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous to Christian spiritual formation....
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699: The Limits of Liberalism & Punishing Immigrants with Matthew Soerens
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Two writers from the New York Times say the liberal values that have flooded our culture with online gambling, pornography, and cannabis have backfired, but secular progressives, like Ezra Klein, admit that they don’t have a framework for explaining why. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the benefits and limitations of liberalism as a political and social philosophy, and why those on the left are increasingly aware of their need for religion. Matthew Soerens from World Relief is back to discuss why the Trump administration’s immigration policies are so different in his second term, how the...
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698: De-Christianizing America & Re-Christianizing Advent with Rich Villodas
The Holy Post
The government of Israel has been criticized for building fences in Gaza and the West Bank, but now it’s geofencing American churches. Will its plan reverse the decline of evangelical support for the Jewish state? Donald Trump says he’s making the country more Christian, but data shows his immigration policy favors secular immigrants and rejects Christians. Rich Villodas is back to talk about his new book for Advent, “Waiting for Jesus.” He says we should use this season to resist consumerism, commercialism, and Christian culturalism. Also this week, a giant flightless parrot has...
info_outlineDespite the uproar over the leaked Supreme Court decision overturning Roe, it turns out 80 percent of Americans have a nuanced view of the issue. Phil, Skye, and Christian discuss responses to last week’s show and ask why are we nuanced about some moral issues and absolutist about others. Then, conservative Christians are attacking Tim Keller for his winsome, non-partisan approach to Christianity. They say winsomeness may have worked in the past, but now the culture war is so dangerous that we need a more aggressive and offensive approach. Are they right? Skye interviews Eboo Patel, the founder and president of Interfaith America, about his new book “We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy.” Patel, a Muslim-American, talks about the transformative role Christianity had on his calling, why interfaith cooperation is essential, and what concerns him about the current culture of activism in America. Plus, scientists discover the Mariah Carey of jellyfish.
“Christian Asks” Patreon Bonus: https://www.patreon.com/posts/66555715/
News Segment
0:00 - Intro and updates
Christian’s documentary - https://thegirlwhoworefreedom.com
3:29 - News of the Butt
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bloody-belly-comb-jelly-pooping_n_625e59f1e4b066ecde16f302
10:03 - Responses to last week’s show
17:03 - Nuance versus absolutism
28:55 - Tim Keller and the war on winsomeness55:26 - Holy Post Patreon
http://patreon.com/holypost
Interview with Eboo Patel“We Need to Build: Field Notes for Diverse Democracy” - https://amzn.to/3MquyqO
Interfaith America - https://www.interfaithamerica.org57:30 - Eboo Patel - intro
59:20 - Background and calling
1:14:13 - Culture of activism in America
1:26:45 - Interfaith cooperation1:31:49 - CreditsResources and articles mentioned in news segment:
ProGrace: prograce.orgHoly Post Episode 254: Rethinking Our Response to Abortion with Angie Weszely - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLa-rjvjAtk“America’s Abortion Quandry,” Pew Research Center - https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2022/05/06/americas-abortion-quandary/“Why the Past 10 Years of American Life Have Been Uniquely Stupid” by Jonathan Haidt - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2022/05/social-media-democracy-trust-babel/629369/Tim Keller Twitter thread - https://mobile.twitter.com/timkellernyc/status/1520107742110834699James Wood, “How I Evolved on Tim Keller” - https://www.firstthings.com/web-exclusives/2022/05/how-i-evolved-on-tim-kellerSamuel D. James, “Is it Time to Move Past Tim Keller?” - https://samueldjames.substack.com/p/is-it-time-to-move-past-tim-keller?s=rDavid French, “A Critique of Tim Keller Reveals the Moral Devolution of the New Christian Right” https://frenchpress.thedispatch.com/p/a-critique-of-tim-keller-reveals?s=rRod Dreher, “Tim Keller & Myxomatosis Christians” - https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/tim-keller-david-french-myxomatosis-christians/
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