558: Saddleback vs the SBC & Misusing the Marriage Metaphor with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
Release Date: 03/29/2023
706: The Second Slap plus Leah Libresco Sargeant
The Holy Post
We’ve all heard the stories of people raised within American evangelicalism who became disillusioned because of abuse, scandals, or political idolatry. Some migrated to more progressive church traditions while others deconstructed their faith entirely. Joshua Harris, made famous for his seminal purity culture book “I Kissed Dating Goodbye,” was in the latter category. Harris now says he is emerging from “a season of overcorrection,” having seen the “bully energy” in progressive spaces, and that he is curious about Jesus again. Then, Katilyn talks to feminist author Leah Libresco...
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705: Minnesota, Civil Rights, & Contagious Courage with Justin Giboney
The Holy Post
The country is on edge after another protester was killed by ICE officers in Minneapolis. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye look at how different Christian journalists and media outlets are covering, or not covering, the story, and what protests against ICE share in common with the Civil Rights movement, and how they’re different. Speaking of the Civil Rights era, Justin Giboney is back to discuss his new book, “Don’t Let Nobody Turn You Around.” He believes too much of the American church and our politics has been captivated by the culture war, and learning from the example of the Black church,...
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704: Love is All We Need + Moderate Churches with Ryan Burge
The Holy Post
Over the last 30 years, the number of Americans who say they highly value patriotism, religion, community, and family has dropped dramatically. At the same time, the number of Americans who care about making more money has gone up. Phil, Kaitlyn, and Skye discuss David Brooks’ new article about the culture’s shift toward autonomy and away from loving attachments, and how Christians can begin rebuilding their social muscles. Sociologist and former pastor, Ryan Burge, is back to discuss why the political polarization of Christianity is hurting both the church and democracy. Also this week,...
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703: Hobbes vs Locke & Faith vs Politics with Senator Raphael Warnock
The Holy Post
Tensions have flared around the country after the fatal shooting of Renee Good by an ICE agent in Minneapolis, and the Department of Homeland Security has rolled out a new slogan as it defends the lethal action: “One of Ours, All of Yours.” Is the Trump administration declaring civil war on Americans? Then, two seventeenth-century philosophers, Hobbes and Locke, help us understand the divide in our politics today, but Kaitlyn explains why Christians should be hesitant to embrace either. Skye talks with Senator Raphael Warnock (D-Georgia) about his dual roles as both a senator and a pastor,...
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702: Venezuela, Vanilla Ice, & the Church’s Anxious Nerves with Sara Billups
The Holy Post
The new year began with a successful U.S. military operation to capture Venezuela’s president. But the mission killed approximately 80 people and is being condemned by some American and international leaders as illegal. Esau McCaulley joins Phil and Skye this week to discuss the fallout from the operation. Was it legal? Was it moral? And what does it reveal about Trump’s vision of America? Kaitlyn talks with author Sara Billups about her new book, “Nervous System,” and how our age of anxiety is affecting Christians and the whole church. Also this week—the Trump administration...
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Bothsidesism Isn’t What You Think
The Holy Post
Holy Post Media is no stranger to accusations of both-sidesism. Skye and Kaitlyn talk about why they believe pointing it out on both sides isn’t simple equivocation or conflict-avoidance, but instead a responsibility… depending on the context. Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this Episode: 0:00 - Intro 0:58 - Theme Song 1:18 - Defining Both-Sidesism 8:40 - Sponsor - Sponsor - Poncho - If you’ve been looking for the perfect shirt—something breathable, fits great, feels even better, and stands out in a good way—give Poncho a try. Get $10 off your...
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701: Mailbag! Decompressing, Demonology, & Dreams for 2026
The Holy Post
We’ve reached the end of 2025, so we thought it’s a good time to answer questions from the Holy Post community. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn cover a wide assortment of issues, from how they decompress after a difficult podcast, and how they pick which politicians to interview, to their favorite movies, and who is best at changing a tire. They also tackle theological questions about the nature of grace, the limitations we will still have in the new creation, and why demons may not be fallen angels. They also give their predictions for 2026. Along the way, Phil has weird ideas about hair, Skye...
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700: What Every Christian Can Learn from A.A. with John Ortberg
The Holy Post
Last weekend was filled with terrible news, including a mass shooting in Australia, another at Brown University, and the murder of Rob Reiner and his wife. Mike Erre joins Phil and Skye to discuss these events and why rediscovering the biblical practice of lament is better than just “thoughts and prayers.” The Catholic Church has taken a nuanced and principled position on the deportation of immigrants. Why do evangelicals find that so difficult? Then John Ortberg talks with Skye about his latest book, which applies the 12 Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous to Christian spiritual formation....
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699: The Limits of Liberalism & Punishing Immigrants with Matthew Soerens
The Holy Post
Two writers from the New York Times say the liberal values that have flooded our culture with online gambling, pornography, and cannabis have backfired, but secular progressives, like Ezra Klein, admit that they don’t have a framework for explaining why. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss the benefits and limitations of liberalism as a political and social philosophy, and why those on the left are increasingly aware of their need for religion. Matthew Soerens from World Relief is back to discuss why the Trump administration’s immigration policies are so different in his second term, how the...
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698: De-Christianizing America & Re-Christianizing Advent with Rich Villodas
The Holy Post
The government of Israel has been criticized for building fences in Gaza and the West Bank, but now it’s geofencing American churches. Will its plan reverse the decline of evangelical support for the Jewish state? Donald Trump says he’s making the country more Christian, but data shows his immigration policy favors secular immigrants and rejects Christians. Rich Villodas is back to talk about his new book for Advent, “Waiting for Jesus.” He says we should use this season to resist consumerism, commercialism, and Christian culturalism. Also this week, a giant flightless parrot has...
info_outlineDescription: Rick Warren, the founder and former pastor of Saddleback Church, is speaking out after his church was ejected from the Southern Baptist Convention for ordaining women. Phil explains how the SBC went from being accepting of female leaders, to opposing them, to kicking out churches that depart even slightly on the issue. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Dr. Beth Felker Jones and Dr. Amy Peeler about Joshua Butler’s controversial article comparing the gospel to marital sex. They explain what his article gets fundamentally wrong about the New Testament’s marriage metaphor. Plus, a new study finds evangelicals are the least liked religious group in America, except by evangelicals who think they’re great. And someone is anonymously leaving their mark on Broadway.
Patreon Bonus: Bonus Interview with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671682
Patreon Bonus: Listener Question
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671892
Holy Post merch store - https://www.holypost.com/shop
0:00 - Intro
2:45 - Theme Song
3:55 - News of the Butt
9:03 - Evangelicals loved by Evangelicals, but not anyone else
14:14 - SBC history around women ordination
26:49 - Denny Burke’s response to Rick Warren
46:14 - Guest Interview - Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
53:47 - Can marriage and sex point us to God?
59:29 - Interpreting the marriage metaphor in Ephesians 5
1::03:11 - Flaws of the giver, receiver framework
1:18:59 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Fan poops in aisle near Hillary and Chelsea Clinton at Broadway show
https://pagesix.com/2023/03/20/fan-poops-in-aisle-near-hillary-and-chelsea-clinton-at-show/
Evangelicals Are the Most Beloved US Faith Group Among Evangelicals
The Southern Baptist Convention’s coming ‘Great Ejection’ https://religionnews.com/2023/03/22/the-southern-baptist-conventions-coming-great-ejection/
Rick Warren Has Done the SBC a Great Service
https://www.dennyburk.com/rick-warren-has-done-the-sbc-a-great-service/
Other resources:
The Bible’s Marriage Metaphor Doesn’t Belong In the Bedroom by Amy Peeler
Protestant bodies, Protestant bedrooms, & our furious need for a theology thereof by Beth Felker Jones
https://bethfelkerjones.substack.com/p/protestant-bodies-protestant-bedrooms
Faithful: A Theology of Sex by Beth Felker Jones
Holy Post website: https://www.holypost.com/
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