558: Saddleback vs the SBC & Misusing the Marriage Metaphor with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
Release Date: 03/29/2023
696: Transcending Our Political Divisions & Labels with Andy Beshear
The Holy Post
Mike Erre joins Phil and Skye to discuss a New York Times column by David Brooks. He says America’s divisions will only heal when we abandon shallow labels and war metaphors, and instead see one another as fellow pilgrims on a journey. America’s Catholic bishops issue a stern rebuke of the Trump administration’s dehumanizing rhetoric and policies, which makes Phil wonder why evangelical leaders can’t do the same. Then, Skye talks to Kentucky’s Democratic governor, Andy Beshear, about why he’s so popular in a state that Donald Trump won by 30 points, and how his party can begin to...
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695: Analyzing the Blue Wave & Why the Church Still Matters with Carmen Joy Imes
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The Democratic Party swept the off-cycle elections last week, but this isn’t the first blue wave we’ve seen in the Trump era. Phil, Skye, and Kaitlyn discuss what it means and the significance of New York City electing a Muslim, democratic socialist as mayor. Does Mamdani represent the death of New York, and possibly America, as one Baptist leader claims? Old Testament scholar Carmen Imes is back to discuss why she hasn’t given up on the church, and we shouldn’t either. Her new book is “Becoming God’s Family: Why the Church Still Matters.” Also this week—how social media is...
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French Friday: The Nazi Rot on the Right
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Open Nazi rhetoric is gaining traction on the right, and the response from conservative institutions has been inconsistent at best. Skye and David trace the roots of the problem, the incentives that fueled it, and the late-breaking backlash that may signal a tipping point. They also look at ICE’s increasingly aggressive “Kavanaugh stops,” the risks of expanding executive power, and why election integrity could be threatened when extremism and state authority begin to reinforce each other. Want the full episode? Go to The SkyePod feed to hear it now!
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694: Why Don’t We Take Church Unity Seriously? with N.T. Wright
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A new survey finds that moderately religious Americans are the most likely to say that they see dead people. Which raises a question—why are the non-religious and the very religious less likely to report encounters with the departed? New York Times columnist Ezra Klein says that by over-emphasizing inclusivity, the Democratic Party has ironically become less inclusive. And Ryan Burge looks at the numbers behind the party’s growing “God problem.” Will the Democrats ever figure out how to compete against MAGA? New Testament scholar N.T. Wright is back to discuss his latest book, “The...
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693: Holy Post LIVE from Chicago 2025
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This week is Halloween, and on this special episode recorded with a live audience, the Holy Post hosts discuss why our culture isn’t afraid of monsters and demons anymore. How did all of our pop culture heroes and villains become morally ambiguous? Also, would communal living solve our loneliness epidemic? Kaitlyn is all for it, but Skye isn’t so sure. Also this week—audience Q&A, Phil, Skye, Kaitlyn, and Esau play a game of true confessions, and Phil’s favorite news segment comes full circle. Holy Post Plus: Ad-Free Version of this Episode: Bonus Question: 0:00 -...
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692: Vertical vs. Horizontal Morality & Rediscovering Confession with Jamin Goggin
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A recent article tries to explain why so many politically active Christians behave unchristianly in the public square by differentiating “vertical” and “horizontal” sources of morality. The Holy Post crew examines the argument and finds it weak. Has MAGA ignited a revival in the U.S.? David French says we may be confusing a political revolution for a spiritual revival. Jamin Goggin joins Skye to discuss recovering the practice of confession in our churches. Goggin says it should start with pastors. Also this week—man does not live by 1200-year-old bread alone. 0:00 - Show...
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691: The Antichrist, Illiberalism, & Why Gen Z Accepts Political Violence with Elizabeth Neumann
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In a series of invitation-only, off-the-record lectures about Christianity, technology billionaire Peter Thiel said the antichrist is trying to regulate technology and billionaires. Which raises the question—Why do we always remake Christ in our image and the antichrist in our enemies’? Gen Z is making conservative Christianity more angry, intolerant, and illiberal. What’s fueling the younger generation's interest in religious fundamentalism? Counter-terrorism expert Elizabeth Neumann is back to discuss the rising acceptance of political violence among young adults and why she expects...
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690: Flying Bishops, Evangelical Ignorance, & Slow Theology with A.J. Swoboda & Nijay Gupta
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For the first time ever, the U.K. has appointed a woman as the Archbishop of Canterbury to lead the global Anglican Communion. Kaitlyn, Skye, and Mike Erre discuss the implications of appointment and how Anglicans use “flying bishops” to maintain unity over divisive theological issues. Are there lessons here for other divided Christian communities? The latest “State of Theology” report shows a shocking number of evangelicals hold contradictory beliefs. Why are evangelical churches so bad at teaching the Bible and theology? Kaitlyn talks with A.J. Swoboda and Nijay Gupta, co-authors of...
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689: The Rapture, Repentance, & Redefining the Good Life with Grace Hamman
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After a South African pastor claimed that Christ would come for his church on September 23, TikTok became rapture obsessed. Mike Erre joins Skye and Kaitlyn to discuss our ongoing fixation with this bad theology, why people get caught up in rapture predictions, and how it damages the credibility of the faith. Kaitlyn talks to Medieval scholar, Grace Hamman, about her new book, “Asks of Old Paths.” Hamman says Medieval literature is rich in wisdom for modern Christians on how to define a good life, using the language of virtues and vices. Also this week—a secular writer examines the...
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688: The MAGA Contradiction & Educational Injustice with Terence Lester
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The memorial service for Charlie Kirk revealed a deep contradiction with the MAGA movement. Kirk’s widow was cheered when she forgave his assassin and modeled Jesus’ command to love your enemies. But the crowd also cheered when Stephen Miller and President Trump dehumanized their opponents and expressed hatred for their enemies. Esau McCaulley joins Phil and Skye to discuss the tension between Christian love and pagan power. Also this week, Dr. Terence Lester tells his inspiring story in his new book, “From Dropout to Doctorate,” and how he’s working both spiritually and systemically...
info_outlineDescription: Rick Warren, the founder and former pastor of Saddleback Church, is speaking out after his church was ejected from the Southern Baptist Convention for ordaining women. Phil explains how the SBC went from being accepting of female leaders, to opposing them, to kicking out churches that depart even slightly on the issue. Then, Kaitlyn talks with Dr. Beth Felker Jones and Dr. Amy Peeler about Joshua Butler’s controversial article comparing the gospel to marital sex. They explain what his article gets fundamentally wrong about the New Testament’s marriage metaphor. Plus, a new study finds evangelicals are the least liked religious group in America, except by evangelicals who think they’re great. And someone is anonymously leaving their mark on Broadway.
Patreon Bonus: Bonus Interview with Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671682
Patreon Bonus: Listener Question
https://www.patreon.com/posts/80671892
Holy Post merch store - https://www.holypost.com/shop
0:00 - Intro
2:45 - Theme Song
3:55 - News of the Butt
9:03 - Evangelicals loved by Evangelicals, but not anyone else
14:14 - SBC history around women ordination
26:49 - Denny Burke’s response to Rick Warren
46:14 - Guest Interview - Beth Felker Jones & Amy Peeler
53:47 - Can marriage and sex point us to God?
59:29 - Interpreting the marriage metaphor in Ephesians 5
1::03:11 - Flaws of the giver, receiver framework
1:18:59 - End Credits
Links mentioned in news segment:
Fan poops in aisle near Hillary and Chelsea Clinton at Broadway show
https://pagesix.com/2023/03/20/fan-poops-in-aisle-near-hillary-and-chelsea-clinton-at-show/
Evangelicals Are the Most Beloved US Faith Group Among Evangelicals
The Southern Baptist Convention’s coming ‘Great Ejection’ https://religionnews.com/2023/03/22/the-southern-baptist-conventions-coming-great-ejection/
Rick Warren Has Done the SBC a Great Service
https://www.dennyburk.com/rick-warren-has-done-the-sbc-a-great-service/
Other resources:
The Bible’s Marriage Metaphor Doesn’t Belong In the Bedroom by Amy Peeler
Protestant bodies, Protestant bedrooms, & our furious need for a theology thereof by Beth Felker Jones
https://bethfelkerjones.substack.com/p/protestant-bodies-protestant-bedrooms
Faithful: A Theology of Sex by Beth Felker Jones
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