The Enneagram in Therapy (Part 1): How to Use It With Care, Clarity, and Clinical Wisdom
Typology
What does it mean to use the Enneagram in therapy responsibly? In Part 1 of this two-part conversation on Typology, Anthony Skinner and I lay the groundwork for therapists, counselors, and coaches who want to responsibly integrate the Enneagram into clinical practice with wisdom and care. Together, we unpack what the Enneagram is—and what it isn’t—in the therapy room. It’s not a diagnosis. It’s not a substitute for evidence-based modalities. And it should never flatten complexity or bypass deeper trauma work. I also share practical wisdom from decades of work as a therapist,...
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The Future of Mental Health: Psychedelics, Trauma Recovery, and the Enneagram
Typology
There are conversations that stretch you a little. And then there are conversations that gently but firmly rearrange the furniture in your mind. This week, I sat down with Keith Kurlander and Will Van Derveer—co-founders of the Integrative Psychiatry Institute—to talk about something that’s generating a lot of curiosity and, let’s be honest, some anxiety: psychedelic-assisted therapy. Before you brace yourself, this isn’t a hype session. It’s a thoughtful, grounded conversation about trauma, the nervous system, and what happens when traditional therapy isn’t enough to reach the...
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When Therapy Speak Goes Too Far, with Joe Nucci
Typology
In this episode of Typology, I sit down with therapist and author Joe Nucci for a thoughtful, wide-ranging conversation about the Enneagram, mental health, and the growing misuse of therapeutic language in our culture. Joe—an Enneagram Three—shares his own journey with the Enneagram, the hidden shame dynamics of Threes, and how public success can quietly pull us toward performance instead of integrity. Together, we explore why tools like the Enneagram work best as maps, not MRIs—helpful for self-awareness and empathy, but dangerous when they turn into rigid labels. We also dig into...
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The Defender’s Way: How Enneagram Eights Can Build Cultures of Care Without Losing Power”
Typology
What happens when Enneagram Eight energy grows up, softens its edges, and learns to lead with both strength and soul? In this episode of Typology, Ian Morgan Cron sits down with restaurateur, entrepreneur, and conscious capitalism advocate Dan Simons, co-owner of Founding Farmers, for a wide-ranging, deeply human conversation about power, protection, and what it really means to build a culture of care. Dan is brand-new to the Enneagram—and quickly discovers he’s an Eight with a strong Nine wing, a compelling combination that blends moral clarity with empathy, decisiveness with nuance, and...
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Enneagram Six Wisdom: Songwriter Brad Warren on Anxiety, Humor, Faith, and Healing After Loss
Typology
What happens when the worst thing you’ve been afraid of actually happens—and you’re still standing? In this episode of Typology, I sit down with songwriter Brad Warren—an Enneagram Six, a man in long-term recovery, a husband, a father, and someone who has walked straight through unimaginable grief and come out the other side with humility, humor, and hard-won wisdom. Brad is the kind of person who tells the truth without posturing, who can laugh at himself without diminishing himself, and who understands—deeply—that fear doesn’t disappear just because you name it. But naming it...
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The Hidden Cost of Performance: Steve Cuss on Anxiety, the Enneagram Three, and Becoming Your True Self
Typology
What happens when the need to appear competent becomes the very thing that disconnects us from others—and from ourselves? In this deeply honest and surprisingly funny conversation, Ian welcomes author, speaker, and Enneagram Three, Steve Cuss for a wide-ranging dialogue on anxiety, performance, false self, and the quiet freedom that comes with becoming more human-sized. Drawing from Steve’s experience as a hospital chaplain, pastor, and leadership consultant, they explore why our most polished coping strategies often come from fear, how predictable patterns keep us stuck, and why anxiety...
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Jimmy Carter, the Enneagram, and the Life That Comes After Striving, with Andrew Greer
Typology
What if your most meaningful work begins after you stop striving to prove yourself? In this warm, wide-ranging conversation, I sit down with old friend, songwriter, filmmaker, and Enneagram Two Andrew Greer for a heartful exploration of loneliness, love, boundaries, creativity, and what it really means to live a good life. Andrew opens up about the hidden sadness behind the Enneagram Two’s gift for connection—the ache that often fuels the desire to help, anticipate, and care for others. Together, we unpack how pride, control, and fear of being a burden can quietly shape relationships,...
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Rediscover the Christmas Story You Thought You Knew, with AJ Sherrill (Replay)
Typology
This Christmas, we’re delighted to bring back one of our most beloved conversations with Enneagram Three, pastor, and author AJ Sherrill. In this replay, AJ joins me to revisit the Nativity story—not as the sentimental tale we often breeze past each year, but as a rich, multilayered narrative pulsing with mystery, courage, vulnerability, and divine surprise. AJ shares his own journey into spiritual direction, what it’s teaching him about listening, presence, and compassion, and how the Enneagram continues to shape his inner world. We explore why the season invites us to slow down, pay...
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Caring for Every Type at Christmas: A Holiday Conversation with Christina Wilcox (Replay)
Typology
With the holidays just around the corner, we’re bringing back a conversation that continues to deliver relational gold. Whether you heard it the first time or you’re discovering it now, this replay with author and Enneagram teacher Christina Wilcox offers a beautifully practical and deeply compassionate look at how the Enneagram can transform the way we show up for one another during the most emotionally charged season of the year. In this episode, Christina shares her journey of discovering herself as an Enneagram Six—along with the courage, clarity, and self-understanding that...
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Awakening in the Second Half: Jen Hatmaker on Loss, Love, and Letting Go
Typology
What happens when the life you built—carefully, faithfully, and publicly—splits down the middle in a single night? On this episode of Typology, I sit down with bestselling author and beloved cultural commentator Jen Hatmaker to talk about her stunning new memoir, Awake. Jen, an Enneagram Three with a courageous streak that can look a whole lot like an Eight, opens up about the “before-and-after date” that changed everything—July 11, 2020—when her 26-year marriage ended, and her whole world cracked open. Together, we explore what it means to wake up in midlife: to grief and...
info_outlineWhat happens when an Enneagram Two (or…maybe a Four?) takes a deep dive into the ache beneath our desire to be good, loved, and whole?
This week, I sit down with Heath Hardesty, pastor and author of All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus Is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World. What begins as a conversation about the Enneagram Two’s longing to help soon unfurls into an exploration of the soul — the ache for beauty, the mystery of shame, and what it means to live authentically before God.
Together we explore:
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The difference between helping and hiding
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Why our “ache” might actually be a form of divine homesickness
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How beauty, poetry, and the transcendent lead us toward wholeness
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What dies — and what’s reborn — as we grow older and surrender our false selves
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The sacred invitation to move from doing ministry to stewarding mystery
It’s equal parts theology, therapy, and literary love letter. Whether you’re a Two, a Four, or simply a human being trying to make sense of your inner world, this episode will remind you that becoming whole is less about striving and more about awakening.
🎙️ Listen now and discover the sacred ache that pulls us home.
ABOUT HEATH HARDESTY
Heath Hardesty is the author of All Things Together: How Apprenticeship to Jesus is the Way of Flourishing in a Fragmented World (Multnomah; 10/14/25). He serves as the lead pastor of Valley Community Church and is the founder of Inklings Coffee & Tea in the heart of downtown Pleasanton, California.
Heath grew up in a blue-collar home and was a plumber’s apprentice in Colorado before becoming a pastor on the edge of Silicon Valley where he, his wife, and four kids now reside.
He holds degrees in literature, leadership, biblical studies, and theology from the University of Colorado Boulder and Western Seminary in Portland. Visit him on IG@heathhardesty.