Can Real Estate Investing Actually be Passive? With Travis Watts | EP160

Travis Watts is the director of investor education at Ashcroft Capital and a multi-family apartment investor. He has been investing in real estate since 2009 in multi-family, single-family, and vacation rentals. Mr. Watts dedicates his time to educating others who are looking to be more "hands-off" in Real Estate.

 

In this episode, we talked about:

• Travis’s Bio & Background
• Passive vs Active Investing
• Transition Into a Full-Time Passive Investing
• Deal Vetting
• Geography of Deals
• Finding Real Estate Deals
• Investment Philosophy

 

Useful links:

https://info.ashcroftcapital.com/travis

Transcriptions:

Jesse (0s): Welcome to the working capital real estate podcast. My name's Jessica Galley And. on this show, we discuss all things real estate with investors and experts in a variety of industries that impact real estate. Whether you're looking at your first investment or raising your first fund, join me and let's build that portfolio one square foot at a time. My name's Jesse Rega and you're listening to working capital. My guest today is Travis Watts. Travis is a full-time investor, Passive income advocate, public speaker, and the director of investor education at Ashcroft Ashcroft Capital.

 

He dedicates his time to educating investors who are looking to be when it comes to real estate investing. Travis, welcome back.

 

Travis (42s): Hey, Jesse. So glad to be here. Thanks for the invite back.

 

Jesse (45s): Not a problem at all. It's great to see you again. We've chatted before on working capital for those listeners that wanna see the, that first conversation, I was pretty wide ranged in terms of the topics, but you know, like most returning guests we have on a lot has happened over the last couple years. So we thought we'd kind of have you back on, talk about what you're doing currently and your take on on where we're currently at in the real estate cycle. So before we kick it off, for those that didn't hear the first episode, maybe you could give a little bit of a background for listeners to what you do and how you got into, into the world of real estate.

 

Travis (1m 25s): Sure, yeah, happy to. So humble beginnings, you know, wasn't raised by an investor minded family, not a real estate background at all, but reading some of the books a lot of us have read. The Rich Dad Poor Dad type stuff, kind of was my gateway drug into learning about Passive income and financial freedom, things like that. So, started out with single family homes, did flips, did vacation rentals, you know, had roommates, just was trying to pull every string I could early on with a low budget on how I could make more money. And then I kind of shied away from doing as much of the buy low sell high strategy.

 

And I really started to hone in on Passive income. So in recent years I've been a full-time limited partner, mostly in multifamily, private placements with many different operators, of course, Ashcroft Capital and Joe Fearless as well. And you know, I'm just a guy who, you know, came from nothing in terms of, you know, being handed anything or, or again, coming from a family of this. And once I realized what Passive income did in my own life and how it can truly free up your time, how it can give you more options in your life, it was a complete game changer.

 

And so I dedicated the rest of my time from that point to trying to help others, trying to explain this, simplify it. So I've launched a couple different podcasts over the years. Passive Investor Tips is my current one under the best ever brand. And I just make these short episodes five to seven minutes. I try to consolidate as much as I can into quick snippets to help people. And then I'm on podcasts like yours and I'm writing and blogging out there, and I just wanna open up an underserved niche, which is a private placement Investing, and B, not many people talking about Passive income.

 

So that's what my passion is, that's a quick background and that's what I do to, to help others.

 

Jesse (3m 11s): That's great. And for those that if you've been kind of under a rock in terms of real estate investing, Joe Fearless website, I mean you just Google it, you'll see a number of resources from him. He kind of wrote what's known in our circles as like the Bible of multifamily. It's a massive book on Investing. In terms of the, the Passive nature, I always find this kind of fascinating from the standpoint that people go into real estate a lot of times because they expect it to be a Passive investment. And what one person's definition of Passive is very different than another person.

 

So maybe just from, you know, 30,000 feet on Passive Investing, what do you consider Passive and where do you see people kind of mixing in, you know, what we would consider really an operator as opposed to a purely Passive investor?

 

Travis (3m 59s): Yeah, I think you hit on a great point. As I mentioned, I started with single family homes, don don't know. If I was so focused on whether it was gonna be active or Passive, that really wasn't my concern at that time. But as many hope it, you know, to be Passive, when you start acquiring that property, 5, 6, 7, 8, you start to realize you kind of gotta make a decision at some point. Are you going to be, you know, a real estate professional, maybe a, you know, a full-time landlord, or are you gonna work a career, you know, and then have investments on the side? And that was kind of the threshold I hit because I used to work in oil and gas, a hundred hour work weeks, 14 hour days, and I'm trying to do all this real estate on the side and scale it up with, you know, one or two properties a year.

 

And I just completely, you know, hit that threshold in about six and a half years. And I'm like, man, this is not for me anyway, this was not scalable, even with property management companies, I was still having to make a lot of active decisions. First of all, finding the properties, underwriting 'em, showing up to closings, understanding the markets and how they shift and how they change. And then, you know, making decisions. Do I repair that roof? Do I replace that roof? Do I paint the house? Do I refinance right now? So you, you can't help but say there's a, there, there's a lot of active components to owning, you know, your own individual real estate.

 

So my definition to answer your question about what is Passive, this could pertain to real estate or any other asset or business. If you do not materially participate in the actual business itself, then you would be Passive as an investor in it. So it could be as simple as owning some stocks. Maybe you own Apple or Microsoft stock. That doesn't mean you're active with the company, it doesn't mean you work for the company. You, you just wanna be a Passive investor. You just wanna share in the profits and let the team do their thing.

 

And so that's what I found to be the best strategy as you start to acquire more and more capital to free up your time so that you can spend your active time on what it is you wanna do. And there's nothing wrong with being active in Real, Estate or being a general partner or flipping houses or being a wholesaler, if that's what you like to do, if that's truly your skillset, your passion, your desire, nothing wrong with that. But for me, owning my own real estate was really a pain point. It was really a headache, it was really a hassle. I didn't have the skillset, I didn't have the background, I couldn't compete with the people that were 20, 30 years into it.

 

And, and me being this naive newbie that kind of hit a, a market dip at the right time.

 

Jesse (6m 24s): I think the, the nature of the, the conversation of Passive versus active too, it, it, in a lot of ways it can hinder or really stop progress in Investing in general. A lot of times people get a few investment properties and they get kind of a stale taste in their mouth after a couple bad experiences. you know, even for people that have been successful, oftentimes maybe it's moving to multifamily where you can make a, a re a real argument that it's less stressful having a hundred tenants than it is having two tenants in, in a lot of ways in, in that you're dealing with a lot of emotional one-on-one conversations.

 

You don't have enough to necessitate prop property management or asset management. And then you have a lot of times in those cases, a hundred percent vacancy when somebody leaves. So, you know, there is that argument. But to get to that scaled place, oftentimes you, you deal with a lot of this and I think a lot of investors bow out after a few bad experiences on the operating end.

 

Travis (7m 22s): That's a great point. And statistically, what is it, three failures for the average person, they call it quits, right? And so it doesn't take much to get there when you're doing your own properties. you know, I had properties where I was cash flow and a few hundred bucks a month, and all of a sudden, you know, the, the H V A C system goes out and there's 5,000 outta your pocket, there went a whole year of cash flow or you know, tenant quits paying rent. That's the obvious one. I've had tenants destroy properties. I'm not trying to make horror stories out of it. I, I made, you know, great money too in my active deals.

 

But it really is, it takes a lot of perseverance, let's just put it that way and time.

 

Jesse (7m 59s): A hundred percent. And I think you've touched on something too where your definition is not material materially participating in the active business or the, the operations of the business. And you know, oftentimes depending on the country or state, there's legal definitions, you know, in terms of limited partner that you cannot participate or you lose your, your limited liability status. So it's not necessarily just a, you know, a a definition, just have a definition. Oftentimes there is a, there's kind of a legal structure in place and those definitions are important.

 

Travis (8m 30s): A hundred percent man. Yeah, it's just my Philosophy was kind of, if I can't beat 'em, join 'em, I guess, you know, there's always gonna be people that are, are better than you at any particular thing. So it's just why not profit share with them in their journey. And so, yeah, made a lot of sense in my case. Anyway.

 

Jesse (8m 47s): So for those that, you know, say they've been Investing in Real, Estate just on, you know, your typical active end, whether it's smaller, single family commercial or, or you know, multi res, how do, how have you seen people make that transition or, or foray into Passive Investing? Because a lot of times we see is people that have earned a decent amount of income where they can put 50 or a hundred thousand, 150, whatever the minimum is, say, for a certain fund or asset into a Passive investment.

 

What, what's that transition or what does that process look like for your clients?

 

Travis (9m 24s): Well, the first thing I'd point out is there's not many people that are like myself and a few others here in the industry that are literally full-time Passive investors. Meaning that every investment I have, I'm an lp, I've, I've never been a gp, I'm not looking to become one. That kind of thing. Most of our clients are what, what we're talking about here, it's the, it's the typical story that they bought a property themselves, maybe two, maybe three. They like 'em, there's pros and cons, they understand that, but they also know that if they had 20 of those, they don't want that.

 

And so I use my dad as a good example. He got up to eight properties on his own single family and decided I wanna retire and I don't want to have 20 properties. I I like my eight and they're paid off and it's all good. But he, he transitioned at that point into becoming a limited partner in syndications. And now it's a, it's a limitless opportunity. Anytime he has liquidity or a sale or refinance or whatever, he can just do another syndication investment. And another, and another, and another. I'll tell you, it's not much harder to have, you know, two syndication deals under your belt as an LP versus say 50 of them.

 

It's, it's still very Passive if you choose to make it that way.

 

Jesse (10m 35s): So in terms of the Vetting or the questions that you're typically asking when you're getting into a Passive deal, 'cause often people will say, well, okay, if you grant the fact that we're gonna trust people, operators that are smarter than us know what they're doing, you also have to, you know, know how to vet them. So what's your approach to that?

 

Travis (10m 54s): Yeah, I do. I'll answer that absolutely. But I want to point out that the foundation to this answer is one of the best things about being a limited partner is no matter where you live in the world, you can invest wherever you want. Okay? So like back when I had all these properties, single family all in Colorado, I lived in Colorado and I started to get scared about natural disaster risk or political risk. What if Colorado says, Hey, we got a 10% state income tax, now all of a sudden All, right? People are gonna move out in droves.

 

I'm gonna have a hundred percent of my portfolio right there in the heat of it. And so I never want that. And it's a beautiful thing to be able to, to spread out. Now what I do in my approach is I start with my goals first, and I recommend people do that. So what is your actual long-term goal? It doesn't have to be the complete end goal, but maybe a five year goal, maybe a 10 year goal. Are you looking to build up more Passive income to create a backstop for your active income or maybe to retire? Or do you want a certain amount of net worth?

 

Maybe you want $2 million net worth by the time you retire, whatever it is, I start there and then I start looking at what types of investments could potentially move me towards those goals. And so what I like is kind of a, a 50 50 hybrid, I'm gonna put my money in something that pays me on a monthly basis. So there's my Passive income, but also has the potential for equity upside if we buy low and sell high, I still like that strategy. I just don't do it full-time. There's no investment that I've ever made, well, not ever recently made where it's just solely buy low, sell high with zero cash flow.

 

But that just fits my risk profile, my goals and objectives. That doesn't mean it's right for anybody listening to this episode. So first, identify what it is you're trying to do. Try not to just make a number goal, like 10,000 a month Passive income. Ask yourself the real why questions, why do you want 10,000 a month Passive income? What would that mean for you? What would you do with the money? Put your kids through college, retire early, quit your job, vacation more. You gotta really know what you're after. And you gotta put some emotional thought towards that because I can tell you firsthand, if you just say 10,000 a month Passive income and you get up to seven and we have a nasty recession and, and you start going downhill, you're very likely to give up on that goal and just settle for less and say, well, maybe, maybe I'm, my goal is now six and and I'll settle on that.

 

So you gotta tie it to like, I'll fail my kids if I don't put 'em through college, you know, if I don't meet this goal and then you're not gonna give up on your family. So that's a little piece of advice. Now for the technicals to your question, I look for a solid track record. I look for reputable groups. you know, I started Investing with Ashcroft years before I came on board to, to help 'em out with investor relations and education and all that kind of stuff. I wanted more of a transparent, you know, look into the company so to speak, so that I knew where I was placing my money and I could learn the business that way.

 

And then, you know, just conservative underwriting, conservative projections, you gotta start to learn your criteria. You mentioned Joe's book earlier, the best ever apartment syndication book. It's about 400 pages, but it can help you identify your criteria. Do you like value add business plans? Do you like new development? you know, do you like core assets or core plus or opportunistic? There's a lot of jargon to learn in this industry, but for me, I like Sunbelt markets right now. And for the last, you know, seven years or so, it's where people are moving, it's where companies are relocating to.

 

But with that in mind, markets change. you know, we just saw Phoenix go through kind of a big boom and a little bit of a bust right now, so there's opportunistic times to get in and out. And so it's just kind of like writing down your criteria once you understand it and can identify with it. And then just trying to check off as many boxes as you can. And I rarely get a hundred percent of my criteria met on any given deal, but if I can get 70 to 80% there, then I feel good about moving forward with that particular group.

 

Jesse (14m 48s): Yeah, and it's, it's kind of, it's cool that you, you mentioned the geographic diver diversification, where I find with Passive investments, especially on the, if you're on the LP side, you can really spread yourself or di diversify yourself, whether it's like you said geographically or it's the, the type, you know, maybe you're doing value add in this area, you're doing a buy and hold in this area. In terms of the initial kind of outreach and basically finding the investors that you want to invest with are, are you typically networking in your home state or is it something where you, you know, you, you talk to somebody like yourself and it's, you know, maybe word of mouth in terms of finding these operators.

 

How do you, how do you typically go about that? Especially for somebody that's kind of breaking into Investing or is moving from operating some rental properties to somebody who's gonna take Passive Investing on the LP side more seriously?

 

Travis (15m 42s): That's a great question and I'm a big believer in, you know, your network is your net worth. And I started with just simple, easy, low hanging fruit sources, like getting on Google and typing in, you know, syndication groups and making phone calls. And then it led to local real estate meetup groups and trying to meet people face to face, which gave me such a better indication of who these people were and what they were doing. And then I just started branching out more and more from there. I would go tour properties with different groups and then I would do national conferences and now I speak at national conferences.

 

So it's kind of a win-win because I'm there to, you know, help educate on this topic, but I'm also there to network and learn. And I'd say I've found about 60%, maybe even 70% of all the operators that I've ever worked with through face-to-face contact. So the more you can get out there and the more you can network, the better off you'll be. And another key, if you want to kind of just get right to the point and circumvent some time is find other people. I've always been a big believer in this, find people doing what it is you wanna do and just make them your mentor Whether, you have to pay them Whether, you just have a quick 15 minute call, maybe once a month.

 

Pick their brain. Who are you Investing with? What, you know, how, what's your experience been? you know, who would you recommend? Testimonials go a long way in this industry and if I can get, you know, five, six testimonials lined up for a particular group and they all happen to be positive and you know, they got the track record and all the rest, I'll probably invest with them.

 

Jesse (17m 12s): Do you make a, any distinction in terms of Investing with an operator that invest in asset specific deals as opposed to creating funds? you know, are you agnostic or do you prefer one over the other?

 

Travis (17m 25s): It's funny, if you listen to some of my earlier content, when I first started doing podcasting and speaking, I had the opposite point of view. And the, the parallel I'll draw for your audience is it's kind of like imagine the stock market, okay? You can either go handpick stocks you think are gonna do great and outperform, or you can just buy the s and p 500 index or some other equivalent index, right? So at first I'm thinking, hey, I know how this works and I can, I can pick a good deal and then come to find out that three or four of those didn't do so hot, right? I didn't lose money thankfully, but they certainly didn't hit the projections that we were all hoping for.

 

And so I became more of a fan over time into the fund model, even before Ashcroft moved into the funds, I had no idea they were gonna make that transition. But it gives you broader diversification, right? You can still put in that minimum investment or that 50 K, but now you could be invested in four different properties and not just have to pick one. And then you're outta capital and you just have to hope and pray that that deal works out. It's not always the fault of the operator. It could be, you know, again, natural disaster risk, the it, there could be a, a fire, there could be a flood, there could be a hurricane, a tornado, a blizzard, snowstorm, who knows.

 

So I don't like to put too much into any one deal. I don't care if it's a fund or an individual deal, but, you know, at the end of the day I still do both. I do mostly funds nowadays if, if anyone caress to know that. But it's a personal preference.

 

Jesse (18m 49s): Okay, fair enough. And now we've talked a little bit about the last year or two. Been unprecedented, unprecedented time, lots of ch lots has changed. I, I want to get your take on if your Investment Philosophy has changed or, or you've pivoted within the last few years as a result of the kind of, you know, you wouldn't call it your typical business cycle. We've been forced into certain things and other things have been put on hold. So I guess generally speaking, since the last time we spoke, has there been any light bulb moments or things that you've changed?

 

you know, in terms of the investments?

 

Travis (19m 24s): You know, I'll, I'll start by sharing this. My general Philosophy is that I'm a dollar cost averaging guy because I love real estate and I intend to be in it for the long haul and I don't try to pretend to be able to time markets. I remember talking to syndicators one in particular that's very experienced 20 plus year track record in 2015. I'm like, please put me on your deal list. I wanna see what you're doing, I'd like to participate with you. And he's like, Travis, we're gonna have the biggest meltdown you've ever seen in your life in 2016. I, I expect everything to implode and just blow up.

 

And it kind of freaked me out. But again, that wasn't my belief or Philosophy, so I'm like, All, right? I'll do a little bit of Investing. Now maybe that happens, maybe not, and it didn't, right? So thankfully those deals did exceptionally well. And the thing is, what we're seeing right now is that, you know, the Fed went historically aggressive with interest rates through 22 and continues here in 23. That is a negative correlation to the pricing of real estate. you know, especially in commercial. 'cause commercial has shorter debt terms compared to single family folks with 30 year terms, things like that.

 

So what we're seeing as a result is, is anywhere between a 20 and maybe a 25% price discount relative to previous pricings or a cap rate reversion from maybe a four cap to a five cap, or a five and a half cap or something like that. So all it really means is right now is an opportunity to kind of buy the dip again, back to the dollar cost averaging Philosophy. So it's the same thing for the folks that buy into the Philosophy of buy the s and p 500 index and sometimes the market's up and sometimes the market's down, and you're gonna get kind of that average cost over the long haul.

 

That's my Philosophy as well. So I don't know, is it gonna get worse or go further? Maybe, maybe not, but at least we're getting 20, 25% off right now, which was the same opportunity that you had if you were a stock investor in 22 when the market had declined 20 to 25% at whatever point that was October of last year. So, and again, will the stock market retest that and go back down, don don't know, but at least you know that it's, you know, historically making all time highs every, you know, so often or whatnot, and you just have to factor in being an investor that there's market cycles, you know, every 10 years or so we're gonna go through a pullback.

 

It's just what happens. So if you're not comfortable with that, it, it may not be a suitable investment.

 

Jesse (21m 48s): Yeah, I think we've talked a quite a bit about this lately in terms of, you know, the buying at the bottom is, it's pretty much impossible. You're, you look for indicators and I think we are entering a phase where we're gonna look five, four or five years from now, we're gonna look that this is somewhat of the beginning of the end in terms of the low point in the cycle and where the buying opportunities might be from now for the next two years. Who really knows. But like you're saying, if you're, if you're incrementally buying during that period, then you look back four or five years and that you dollar cost at average because you bought through the, through, you know, what you call the dip.

 

And that's really all you can, you can do, you know, don don't think anybody on this podcast or certainly myself is gonna just have more knowledge than anybody else and be able to buy at the perfect time and then, you know, reap the benefits of that. There's

 

Travis (22m 36s): A lot of opportunity costs to consider. And I look at that too when I'm Vetting deals and I'm looking at cash flow, I'm not that guy that says a anymore. Let me be clear. I was this guy in the beginning to say, Hey, this deal says 8% cash flow and this deal says 6% cash flow, I'm gonna go with the eight. You have to factor in different things. Like, you know, do they pay monthly? Do they pay quarterly? When did the distribution start? And you'll see in the structuring sometimes that, hey, we're gonna pay you 8%, but it's gonna be six months before we start distributions.

 

Well guess what? It's now a 4% return. Right? Yeah. Or, or the thought of like, oh, I think the market's going to implode and sorry, my son's knocking on my door over here. Yeah, no problem. The market's gonna implode, so I'm gonna sit on the sidelines for two or three years and wait it out. Well, it, we may to your point, be very well nearing out a bottom and it's going up from here. Who knows?

 

Jesse (23m 27s): Yeah, I think it's just, it's one of those things where you, you get, you educate yourself, at least for me, I like looking at the history of, of the cycles in our industry and you look for the certain indicators and then you're as prudent as you possibly can be. I think one thing that you mentioned when you said natural disasters is, you know, the way I look at even the lockdown, so we had somewhat of a natural disaster in, in the form of, you know, something pretty, pretty horrifying globally. And I think the, the way that we deal with that going forward I think may be a little bit different in terms of our underwriting.

 

So to the que back to the question on if the Philosophy has changed, we've looked at a lot of investors that somewhat a a lot of them through no fault of their own, are now having to do capital calls depending if, if you were a value add business. And during that, the period over the last couple years, you know, you didn't have fixed rate debt where you had to go back to your investors. What, what are your thoughts on, you know, let's, let's take it from the perspective as of an lp. you know, you have investors that are ask asking for a, I guess in this case, a cash in refinance, asking investors to commit larger capital to certain deals.

 

Do you have an opinion on, you know, what, what is adequate or what reasons you would say do that? And what reasons you would say, you know, avoid that?

 

Travis (24m 47s): Yeah, I think generally speaking, no syndication group wants to have a capital call ever. And, and you certainly don't want that on your track record. And now that becomes kind of a question that you know, investors are going to ask every year moving forward for the rest of your career. Have you ever done a capital call and why and how and what happened? So no one wants to deal with that. So what happens is, you know, interest rates were what, you know, 3% loans is what a lot of people were getting and now they're what, 7% loans. So that's just a crazy debacle, right?

 

So it can, it can suck all the cash flow out of these properties. So you do a, either a capital call and say, give us more money so we can restructure this debt and save the deal and keep moving forward. Or you could pause distributions and say, you know, we're gonna save up some cash reserves here so that we can restructure our debt or buy another interest rate cap or something like that. Or if you're completely nearing the end of the, the deal as in, you know, you finished renovating it and the value add business plan, there may be enough equity to go ahead and exit it profitably and just give investors some kind of equity return, but just maybe not what you originally projected.

 

But then again, that goes on your permanent track record. It's like, why did that deal only do 10% and all your other deals did 20%, you know, i r r So you gotta answer to that. So these are really tough questions and what I've seen in my own portfolio, because I'm I'm invested among a lot of different operators, again, is mostly it's been pause distributions in my particular case, which if I were a general partner and we could pull it off using that strategy, that's what, that's what I would do personally. But it all depends when your debt's coming up and, and how much, what nobody anticipated Jesse and everybody listening is that these, a lot of people had this floating rate debt, but then they thought, okay, we'll be conservative and we'll buy a two year interest rate cap at 200 basis points above our loan as a worst case scenario.

 

And if you go back and you actually look at what people were, the economists were forecasting for interest rates, it was nowhere near what actually happened. So who could have really known, right, it's kind of a crappy situation, but what no one knew is on one of these properties, maybe you bought that interest rate cap for a hundred thousand dollars for two years, well now it's trading at a million dollars. you know, so now the lender's like, hey, we need enough escrows here, you know, to cover a, a million dollar repurchase of another cap.

 

And that's what caught so many operators off guard. And so how do you come up with a million dollars on the spot if it's not just sitting in the account? In most cases it's not just doing that. So again, capital call, pausing distributions, doing some kind of other injection of capital or, or selling the property. I mean, are are your options?

 

Jesse (27m 35s): Yeah, fair enough. Not, not too many, you know, not too many good options, but I think you deal with the situations as they come and, you know, we've talked about this with a couple podcasts ago and that you just wanna make sure that if your investors are asking for a capital call, that you're very clear on what they're doing with this, this cash and that there's, there's a clear plan as to what's going on here. Is it just to break even or is it, you know, we're gonna get out of this and this is, you know, this is the roadmap.

 

Travis (28m 4s): Yep. A hundred percent tough call. I don't envy gps. But again, I mean, you, you could, the investors that may be upset by it, which I mean, to be honest, who's not upset by pause distributions. I mean, I'm a person that lives on cashflow and, you know, probably seven of my deals are paused. That's not a a, a favorable thing. But you gotta put it in perspective because, you know, I own some REITs, some real estate investment trust in my brokerage account and they're sitting at 30, 35% loss right now. So, you know, you gotta, or or they've slashed their dividend in half or whatever's happened.

 

So it's not like anybody's immune when the Federal Reserve brings interest rates up more than double, the economy is impacted. And the scary part is it's a delayed effect. And, and the fact that they went so fast and so quick last year especially, we haven't seen the full repercussions in my opinion. And we're just starting to see them as these commercial deals come up for renewing their debt. And so there's gonna be some distress, but I don't think it'll be anything like a 2008 kind of crisis.

 

It's just going to be a setback and who knows how long it lasts a year or two years. But eventually you and I know, and hopefully your listeners know, there's such a, a, a lack of affordable housing for people in America by, by the tune of millions. And even though we're getting new inventory coming to market, we are still millions behind and there's such strong demand for this asset class. So it's all in kind of how you can structure your, your deals right now.

 

Jesse (29m 38s): Yep. That makes sense. We could talk for another half hour just on the opportunities and outlook right now. I wanna be mindful of the times. So Travis for individuals that you wanna get in contact with you or have any questions regarding real estate investing, Passive, Investing, where can we send them?

 

Travis (29m 56s): Yeah, so for everybody out there, don, don't care if you're brand new. I don't care if you're accredited or not, or you're 70 years old or you're 18, you can go Ashcroft capital.com/ Travis and jump on my calendar. I'm happy to have a, a 15 minute call, no obligation, no upsell, and just help you out, point you in the right direction or provide any resources that I can to help you.

 

Jesse (30m 19s): My guest today has been Travis Watts, Travis, thanks for being part of working capital.

 

Travis (30m 24s): Thanks Jesse. Thanks everyone.

 

Jesse (30m 25s): Thank you so much for listening to Working Capital. The Real, Estate Podcast. I'm your host, Jesse Fragale. If you like the episode, head on to iTunes and leave us a five star review and share on social media. It really helps us out. If you have any questions, feel free to reach out to me on Instagram. Jesse Fragale, F R A G A L E. Have a good one. Take care.