Jewelry Journey Podcast
Every day, people surround us wearing art, history, and culture, but we usually don’t pay attention. Most people think about jewelry as an afterthought or accessory. But jewelry can tell a larger story, one reflecting the connection between contemporary culture and that of yesteryear. Is jewelry clothing, art, status symbol, or something more? The jewelry world seems to be hidden in plain sight and little understood. The Jewelry Journey podcast explores the many aspects of jewelry and its status as art. We talk with those who live and breathe this form of adornment: makers, dealers, gallerists, academics collectors and more. The goal is to elevate the conversation beyond Etsy or big diamonds and see jewelry in a new light, so that we can appreciate the little pieces of wonder that float by each day.
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Episode 225: In Memory of Sharon Berman: How Her Passion Fueled the Jewelry Journey Podcast
11/08/2024
Episode 225: In Memory of Sharon Berman: How Her Passion Fueled the Jewelry Journey Podcast
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Sharon’s own jewelry journey began and how her family is preserving her exceptional collection. Who Sharon considers her most memorable guests and which insights stuck with her over the years. What prompted Sharon to travel the world to study jewelry, and what she learned during her decades of studying the art form. Sharon’s tips for new podcasters on how to create a show with longevity. How you can share your memories of Sharon and continue to connect with the Jewelry Journey community. About Sharon Berman Sharon Berman is managing principal of Berbay Marketing & Public Relations, specializing in working with professionals to create the visibility and credibility that fuel revenue growth. After 20 years of positioning lawyers and other trusted advisors as experts, Sharon launched Arts and Jewelry and expanded her scope to include professionals in the decorative arts and jewelry fields. A passionate jewelry collector, Sharon is studying for her GIA Graduate Gemology diploma. She is on the Board of Art Jewelry Forum, and is a member of the Association for the Study of Jewelry & Related Arts, American Society of Jewelry Historians, Society of Jewellery Historians and Society of North American Goldsmiths. Sharon writes and speaks frequently about business development and marketing for professionals. She has been a speaker at the Antique & Estate Jewelry Conference (“Jewelry Camp”). Sharon earned her undergraduate degree at UCLA and her MBA at USC. Additional Links to Articles About Sharon and Her Life: For donations in lieu of flowers, please follow the next link to Simms Mann program at UCLA, which was important to Sharon and Jonathan: Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone! Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. Jonathan: In fact, it's not going to be Sharon today. I'm Jonathan Kramer, known to some as Mr. Sharon Berman, and I'll open this podcast with some news, not unexpected in some quarters. Sharon passed away in August 2024 from the long-term effects of cancer. Sharon lived a long and productive life. Even after her cancer diagnosis some nine years ago and her prognosis that she would only live for five years, she soldiered through, did an amazing job of prolonging her life, and in some important ways, did that through this Jewelry Journey Podcast. In the podcast you're about to hear, Sharon's jewelry journey is going to be the subject. My youngest daughter, Aleah Kramer, is interviewing Sharon. This interview took place a couple of months before Sharon's passing. It's going to be the same thing you've heard before about a person's jewelry journey, but it's going to be very personal to Sharon. Sharon's jewelry journey with me began 32 plus years ago when we were dating each other, and it was very clear that we were going to get married. Sharon made it very clear that I should not bother to buy her an engagement ring and that she would take care of that herself. That was very typical of the Sharon I would come to know and love and typical of her approach to jewelry. She didn't want to leave it to me to pick out her engagement ring and just said to me, “Don't worry about that.” She ended up ordering some diamonds to evaluate from Empire State Jewelers in the Empire State Building. I remember that. She picked out the stone she liked, and she picked out the setting that she wanted it to be and had it constructed. That should have told me three decades ago that I was with a very special woman who knew her taste in jewelry and wasn't going to be sidetracked in that. That was actually the beginning of my jewelry journey with Sharon. Her jewelry journey has been one of passion and pleasure, and she's become quite the well-known person, even before she began this series of podcasts. I'm amazingly proud of what she's accomplished in terms of her own jewelry journey, and I have to say she's had an exquisite palate in the selecting and enjoyment of jewelry. She didn't just buy jewelry to collect it. She wore her jewelry all the time. It was a source of pleasure, and it made her feel comfortable. Her jewelry was a source of comfort for her. She would find these incredible makers and go out and interview them and purchase their goods. She really supported emerging artists. That was one of the gateways to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She wanted to share that enthusiasm for the up-and-coming makers with people that she talked with all the time. The more she talked to people, the more people said, “You know what? You should do a podcast and share this.” That's how the Jewelry Journey Podcast really started, some 225-ish episodes ago. We're going to leave the podcast up for people to listen to and hopefully enjoy and learn from. It will be a good and honorable tribute to Sharon's jewelry journey to do that. With that, I'm going to let Aleah do the magic of editing here. She's been the editor of these podcasts and has done an amazing job pulling all of this together. I am deeply grateful for her participation in the podcast and, more importantly, the fact that she and Sharon were really partners in this jewelry journey. I am indebted to Sharon for really opening Aleah's eyes to the jewelry journey. Aleah has become an exquisite collector and has gotten as much joy out of collecting as Sharon. With that, we’ll go to the podcast that Sharon talks about her jewelry journey, and then I'll come back at the end to close this out. Sharon: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey. I'm your host, Sharon Berman, and today we have a bit of a different episode. I have a few announcements to make, and then I'm going to share some of my jewelry journey. To help me with that, I'm going to introduce Aleah Kramer. First, thank you all for listening. If this is your first time, a big welcome. If you are familiar with this podcast, welcome back. I'm sorry to report that we suddenly lost several gems in the jewelry world. One of them is Cookie Lewis, who I can't say had a defined role, but she was my best friend. I've known her for 30 years and have been very friendly for the past 20 years, and she really got me into jewelry. Cookie was a very nice person, but I think anybody who knew her for any length of time would say she's a tough cookie. She had definite opinions that were difficult to change. I wouldn't always listen, but I knew she knew her stuff. I saw salespeople who would look at her when she contradicted them. They would look at her like, “Lady, you don't know what you're talking about,” but they'd go back and ask, and sure enough, she was right. Then they would take something out of one case and put it in another. She knew her stones and could always identify the flaws in stones much better than I could, despite all the study I've done. Cookie Lewis will be missed. The next gem that we lost is Robert Allen. Robert did our transcriptions. Robert did transcriptions for me for eight to 10 years, but for the Jewelry Journey since its inception. He had great analytical skills, as did Cookie, but they were both creative in their different ways. In my experience, I've found that people who are good at analysis aren't really the best people for creative endeavors. I thought they both could look outside of their analytical areas and look at the creative aspects of their profession. For instance, every year about Christmas time, Robert Allen would call me with a different idea. "Hey Sharon, I was thinking, what do you think of this?" Then he'd go into it. I can't tell you that I always accepted them or implemented them, but I thought it was really nice that he thought about it. I'll miss that. Our new co-host has been involved in the podcast for a long time but behind the scenes. Now she's coming out of the shadows. Her name is Aleah Kramer, and she's been a producer, an editor, a transcriber, and a pinch hitter. She's also my stepdaughter. She's also joined me on several voyages that I've gone on for the Jewelry Journey, and I would say that is really her métier. She knows it very well, art jewelry. Aleah: Thank you so much, Sharon. That was such a lovely introduction. Hi, everybody. My name is Aleah Kramer, and I am so excited that we're going to share some of your jewelry journey today. Sharon, you always ask your guests a few important questions, and I've always wondered what your answers to these questions are. I wanted to ask you, how did you first become interested in jewelry? Sharon: I think I first became interested in jewelry because I liked jewelry, but really it was Cookie Lewis who drew me into jewelry. She introduced me to estate jewelry, and from there I was off and running. Aleah: What are some of your favorite types of jewelry? Sharon: I like contemporary jewelry, some art jewelry. I used to like it a lot more. And estate jewelry of any kind. By estate jewelry, I mean used jewelry. That's how most people would define it. Aleah: I often hear you ask your guests about collecting and what defines a collector. What do you define as a collector? Sharon: That's a hard-to-answer question. I've been asked that before. I still don't have a good answer. What is a collector? A collector can be somebody who has three or more of the same kind of piece, three or more pieces by the same named jeweler or the same named maker. I really don't have a definition, and here I'm asking everybody who comes on what they define as a collector. Somebody told me they thought they were a really good shepherd of jewelry, and I thought that was interesting. I'm not sure that really fits the bill, but it was interesting to hear. What do you define as a collector, Aleah? Aleah: Oh, I'm too early in the biz to have any definitions. I'm interested in exploring all of the avenues and creating some definitions, but I am definitely not defining anything yet. Sharon: Okay, I think that's very smart. Aleah: Do you have a favorite piece of jewelry? I know you have a beautiful and extensive collection. Do you have a favorite piece of jewelry or a favorite artist? Sharon: Well, I have maybe one or two pieces by named artists, Cartier, that sort of thing. But I don't collect Cartier. The name people, I might have one piece, not because I was collecting or gathering them together. Not, “Oh, I have a piece by A, now I want a piece by B or C.” They just came to me, or I liked them. I don't have a favorite piece, except I would say there is a person in France who does beautiful, large rings. I happen to like statement jewelry. It has to be large, and it has to make a statement. It has to be a statement piece. Her name is Sylvie Corbelin, and she's represented here by Lionel Geneste. We just did a podcast with him. I'm probably butchering his name, but he represents her. She is a very talented and creative person. Aleah: She makes some really exquisite jewelry with high-end materials, such beautiful gold and such beautiful gemstones. They end up looking like paintings and works of art that you can wear on your finger or on your neck or as earrings. Sharon: It's a good way to describe it. Some of it is just very pretty! Pretty and unusual. Aleah: How long have you been a part of Art Jewelry Forum? Sharon: For about 10 years or more, but I was involved for maybe a couple of years. I'm not currently involved. I just look at what they have and the people they have on. Aleah: How did you get involved? How did you find them? Sharon: I found them because I was looking for ways to travel and learn about jewelry. When I found them, I didn't even know what art jewelry was, and I wasn't that interested. But when I saw that they were traveling, I was really interested. That's how I got involved. Aleah: What specifically about traveling to see jewelry interested you? Sharon: Because I like to travel and because there are very few places you can learn about jewelry by traveling. You know yourself there are only a few places. I could name them on one hand. I don't even need one hand. Aleah: How do you feel about the jewelry market in L.A.? Sharon: The jewelry market in L.A. is one-sided, and that's why I like to travel. Art jewelry really started out in Sweden, in Scandinavian countries, in the Netherlands. Here you don't see art jewelry. Here, I think it's very blingy, shiny. It has to catch your attention, and that makes sense. But it's not the kind I like. Aleah: Let's talk about the trips. About how many trips have you been on? Sharon: About seven or eight. Aleah: Do you remember the first trip that you took? Sharon: Well, you just reminded me. Abroad or with them? Aleah: Let’s start with abroad trips, and then even national trips that you’ve done in America with Art Jewelry Forum. Sharon: Well, I think some of the most memorable trips—we went to some places I never thought we would be, like Estonia. The Netherlands is de rigueur, but Estonia, I was really surprised I was ever there. Where else did we go? Aleah: Do you remember the trips to Germany for Schmuck? Sharon: That's right. We took several trips to Germany because Schmuck is there. That's the name of it. Schmuck means jewelry in German, and it's the largest market for jewelry. Art jewelry is displayed there. People go one year, they skip a year, then they go another year, so that's where we went. I came across a sweater. It was an art jeweler sweater, but it was a sweater I got there. I thought, “Gee, I forgot I had this.” That was a lot of fun. That's what I found with Art Jewelry Forum. If you travel a lot, you've seen things they’re showing. Aleah: What inspired you to start the Jewelry Journey Podcast in 2019? Sharon: I'd been thinking about it for a long time, and I thought, “What better time than the present?” I wasn't sure what I was going to do with it, but I thought, “Just start it and see where it takes you.” Aleah: What were some of the key goals or motivations when you launched the podcast? Sharon: I'm thinking about that. Just to study jewelry in more depth. That was one of my key goals. I like talking and thinking about jewelry. That was another key goal. It gave me an excuse to talk to a lot of the jewelers I knew who wouldn’t talk to me. They were friendly, but they wouldn't necessarily talk to me unless I was asking them questions. Aleah: That's a really interesting answer. I hadn't thought about that as well. Sometimes when you're just talking to them, they're not that open. But when you get them into a podcast setting, they really do open up. You have really asked some interesting questions of people. Thank you for that answer. I’m really interested in that. In the 220 plus episodes that you've done, what have been some of the most memorable or impactful stories that you've covered? Sharon: I don't know if I have any that are so impactful, except one came from a jeweler. He said that the most important thing you have to remember when you're selling jewelry online is what the return policy is. I thought, “Well, he's really right.” I've never forgotten that. That's probably the only thing I haven't forgotten. Aleah: That’s a very important thing not to forget! Sharon: Yeah, but I think he's right. It was a good point. Aleah: What are some of the most important trends or developments you've observed in the jewelry industry over the past four years? Sharon: I would say, and I think a lot of people would agree with me, is probably the use of lab-grown diamonds becoming more accepted. They are a lot more accepted. Today I would look at them a second time in my jewelry. If somebody showed me a lab-grown diamond several years ago, I wasn't interested, but they've become a lot more acceptable in the past few years. Aleah: Which episodes or topics have resonated the most with you and with your listeners? I think you've really been impacted by cataloging. Sharon: Aleah, I think that’s a very good point in that I've spent the past—what I thought was going to be three weeks—six months working with somebody to catalog my jewelry. Aleah and I tried various means. We tried Excel, and we tried all these different ways that were supposed to help you catalog your jewelry. I think we settled on one called Collector Systems. I resisted because that has a subscription of about $1,000 a year, but it's the best one. The best one I could find, at least. I do have to give credit to Mara, who helped me do it. She also helped Aleah do it. When she asked how long I thought it would take, I really thought it was going to take three weeks, but it took forever. I had more than I thought, and we try and keep it up to date. Aleah: It's absolutely been a fun challenge. Sharon: When I'm going to sleep at night, I think, “Oh, I have to tell Mara that I sold that, or I gave it away or I acquired this, so we keep it up to date.” I'm usually behind the ball when it comes to that. Aleah: What have been some of the biggest challenges that you've faced in producing a weekly podcast about jewelry? Sharon: I haven't been able to think that far ahead. We've talked about starting a newsletter. I've wanted to be a few weeks ahead so I could announce things in the newsletter, but I've never been able to get more than a couple weeks ahead of what's coming up to let the listener know and to let the person that I'm interviewing know. By the time I contact them and they get back to me, which sometimes could be several weeks and occasionally it's been several months, it takes a lot longer. The thing that takes the most time on any podcast is the amount of time it takes. It's always lovely to get answers right away, but it doesn't happen that often. Aleah: Which guests or interviews stand out as being particularly insightful and eye-opening for you? Sharon: I have to think about that. I partially answered that question. It was Jeff Russak at Lawrence Jeffrey Estate Jewelers who told me what I needed to know about selling jewelry online. Besides that, Robert Lee Morris was a very interesting episode. There are a lot of episodes where I was told the person didn't have a lot to say, so they said they would stay within the half hour or 20 minutes or whatever, and an hour in I'd have to stop them because they were still going, and I hadn't said anything. They were very interesting, nonetheless. Aleah: How do you go about finding and selecting the guests you feature on your show? Sharon: Sometimes they come directly to me, which in the beginning really surprised me. Now they regularly come to me. If I read a name in the jewelry trades or in the newspaper, I'll circle it and pursue them. It's as simple as that. I may not know anything about them except that they're in the jewelry business, and I'll work on finding out more about them. I would say those are the two main ways. I think it's two main ways, they come to me, or I go after them. Aleah: In your opinion, what are the most exciting or innovative areas of art and contemporary jewelry? Sharon: I've recently learned that the Art Deco period was followed on the heels of Retro jewelry, and I like both periods. I like some art jewelry, but not all. There was a time when I liked all art jewelry, but I found that I really don't. I'm very particular about art jewelry. Contemporary jewelry is contemporary jewelry. If it's not one of those categories, I think it's contemporary jewelry. Aleah: I think that answered part of my next question, because I was going to ask how has the podcast helped expand your knowledge and appreciation of jewelry? Obviously, there are so many things you learn by just talking to so many people. Sharon: There's a lot I've learned and a lot you do learn. There's so much to learn. Aleah: What advice would you give to someone looking to start their own specialty podcast? Sharon: This isn't the first...
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Episode 224 Part 2: How Jennifer Merchant Continues the Tradition of Op Art in her Jewelry
06/07/2024
Episode 224 Part 2: How Jennifer Merchant Continues the Tradition of Op Art in her Jewelry
What you’ll learn in this episode: Jennifer’s unique process of layering acrylic and art images, and how she discovered her signature technique. Why the most important thing a young artist can do is find their voice. Why Jennifer rarely uses images her customers request in her jewelry. How Jennifer’s work ties into the history of pop and op art. Why Jennifer sees other art jewelers as inspiration, not competition. About Jennifer Merchant: Jennifer Merchant is a studio t based in Minneapolis, MN. She graduated with a BFA in Metals and Jewelry from the Savannah College of Art and Design. She is a full-time artist showcasing her work in galleries, museums and exhibitions. Her work has been published in several national magazines such as American Craft, Ornament and Delta Sky Magazine. Merchant is best known for her innovative layered acrylic process in which images and prints are layered between solid acrylic. Her work is graphic with clean lines and modern aesthetic. Pieces confound viewers, appearing transparent from one angle of view while showcasing bold patterns and colors from another. Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional resources: Transcript: Like the op and pop art that inspires it, Jennifer Merchant’s jewelry challenges your eye. Clear from some angles and bold and colorful from others, the jewelry is created by layering acrylic with images from art books. Jennifer joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she developed her technique; how she chooses the images in her jewelry; and why art jewelers need to work together to push the discipline forward. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, my guest is Jennifer Merchant. Jennifer was also a guest several years ago. She thought she would be a metalsmith but segued to acrylic jewelry, which is what she has become known for: creative and innovative acrylic jewelry such as necklaces, bracelets, earrings and brooches. They have eye-catching graphics embedded in them. I was also surprised to learn that hand carving is sometimes involved. Welcome back. When you left college, did you know you were going to have your own business? Jennifer: Not right away. I think it took me about five years to really get the confidence together to start my own business. I definitely spent that first five years after graduation very lost and not really sure what in the heck I was going to do with my jewelry degree, especially because I went to school in Savannah, Georgia. That's where I made all my art connections and jewelry connections. Moving back to Minneapolis, I was off on my own. I didn't have a community at that point. It definitely was a number of years of wondering, “How am I going to end up using this degree that cost me so much money?” I had been waiting tables and was increasingly unhappy because I knew I had something different to offer the world. I ended up getting fired from a job. I had been speaking with a friend at work who had another friend that was putting on an art show. She had told me about it because she knew I was an artist. I remember getting fired from the job and calling her up right away, like, “I think I want to do that art show because I need to try to make some money.” It went okay, and it inspired me to say, “Jewelry is something you can do and make a living with. Let's give this a shot.” I had to move back home with my mom for a couple of years and cut my expenses way down, because I wasn't going to take out another loan to start a business. I built it very small, very scrappy. I had a second bedroom in my mom's house where I had my workshop, and I started from there doing little local events. That's where it all started. Sharon: Wow. What's the biggest piece of advice you can give to somebody who's just starting out? Jennifer: I would say when you're just starting out, really try to find your voice. Sharon: What do you do? What does one do when they find their voice? For instance, some people have found the voice, but they're homemakers or they work in an office. What do you do when you find your voice? Jennifer: I think once you know what you want to say, the next step is finding out who wants to hear it. And that is a very hard step, finding your niche and finding your people that resonate with your voice. I think the only way to really do that is to get yourself out there, get your work out there. I think with the Internet now and how accessible online stuff is, it might be a little easier to get yourself out there through social media, through the Internet, than maybe it was years ago when you had to have a physical presence out in the world. People can start by getting their work out there online and hopefully seeing who is interested, who connects with it, and then finding places in the real, outside world to continue that process and eventually find your market. Sharon: Do you have people who come to you with the image they want to include already? Jennifer: Not very often. I've had people ask me about that, but I think ultimately, I have to be drawn to the image specifically in order to be able to incorporate it in a piece. I did have a client that had a specific art piece she wanted in a bracelet for her daughter. That I was able to do because I resonated with the work and it was something that worked well within the form of jewelry. I've also had requests where someone wants family mementos or something encased in the acrylic. That's a very cool, sentimental thing, but visually, it doesn't really work with my aesthetic as well. I'm not going to do something just because I get asked for it. I also have to be drawn to it enough in order to go through with it, because it is a labor-intensive process and it is an art of passion. If I'm not super excited about the thing I'm making, it's probably not going to turn out that great either. I have tried to do things early on in my career specifically for a client that just didn't quite work out. We weren't on the same page. I think as you get more into it, you figure out the types of things you can push the boundaries on and the types of things that you can't. When someone's request is something that you can do and make them happy with, and when it's just not something that'll work out, you know. Sharon: That's interesting. So if somebody brought you their wedding photo, it depends on whether you like the wedding dress or something like that. Jennifer: Or if it has enough visual interest. I think the thing that makes my work successful is the images that I do use are interesting within a small scale of jewelry, and not all images can do that. I work with a lot of op art and pop art, and there's a lot of visual interest going on in a small space. With a photograph or something more sentimental, that's not always the case. It just wouldn't look as cool as they think it's going to. Sharon: I've seen comic books used in your work. How did you come to that? Jennifer: All of the things in my work that look like comic books are actually Roy Lichtenstein pieces. His pop art was inspired by comics, and he reimagined them into huge canvases and paintings. My jewelry does something similar, where I take Roy Lichtenstein's work and images and collect tons of books and rip out those pages and put that in my jewelry. It feels kind of meta. I've actually met some of his descendants and collectors and friends over the years, and a lot of them assure me that he would really appreciate what I'm doing with his work. It's a very similar idea as to how he repurposed art and things that he saw into something new and different. Sharon: That’s interesting. I didn't know that. Did you study art history in college as you were studying jewelry and metal and all that? Jennifer: Yeah, art history is definitely part of your Bachelor of Fine Arts degree. It wasn't always my favorite class because the art history classes were about art that was ancient and a lot of religious art and that sort of thing. I think I had one class where it was modern art in the 20th century, which, of course, is the most interesting to me. But that art history background definitely sparked some interest in different art movements and art periods. Art Deco is a very favorite design motif of mine. As I was talking about earlier, I'm very inspired by pop art and op art. I think art history plays a huge role. I never thought at the time when I was in school that I would end up studying more about art history and specific artists and doing that kind of research, but it is really important to my work now. Sharon: Can you explain what the difference between pop art and op art is? Jennifer: Sure. With pop art, everyone knows Roy Lichtenstein and Warhol. They took popular things or everyday objects like a soup can and made them stylized and put them in the context of fine art as this kind of ridiculous thing. Op art deals with optical properties. A lot of op art is very linear. It kind of tricks your eye. It looks like it's moving, but it's a static image. Funny enough, when I started working with op art, I was actually collecting those optical illusions books for kids. There'd be very few usable images in there, but there'd be a few black and white, scintillating-looking, squiggly-lined spirals or something like that. That sparked my interest in optical art and looking it up outside of the context of those silly books for kids. I found out this is a whole art movement, and there are artists like Richard Anuszkiewicz and Victor Vasarely and Bridget Riley that pioneered this in the 60s, when it really became a thing. I just find it so fascinating. But it's kind of funny that my two art movements that I use a lot in my work are pop and op. Like, who knew? Sharon: Do you ever use any other kind besides those? You say you like Art Deco. I don't know what you’d use for an image, but I guess you could use an Art Deco image. Jennifer: I think with Art Deco I am more inspired by the overall forms of pieces or the shapes. I like the ideas. I like the repetitive nature of Art Deco. They went from Art Nouveau, where it was all crazy and ornate, and then Art Deco kind of simplified things. It was a little more streamlined. I really like that. I think I carry those design principles through my work, not as much the direct visuals. Although if I could find great books with Art Deco prints of patterns or wallpapers or whatever, I’d love to use those. I just haven't quite found the right image sources yet for that. Finding pop art and op art books has been pretty easy for me, and the images are just so striking, so that's why I’ve gravitated towards those. I'm open to other types of art and other artists. I just haven't moved on yet from the things I am working on. I can only focus on so many things at a time, but I could see myself doing some collections using Rothko paintings or Gerhard Richter with those interesting images, Jackson Pollock with the splashes. Those kinds of things I could see being very interesting within the context of layered acrylic. It just depends on where my book collection takes me. Sharon: So, if we're looking at used books at a used bookstore, we should keep our eyes open for interesting things that could be used as interesting prints. Jennifer: Yeah. I actually buy so many of my books online because physical shops only have so many things, and what I'm looking for is so specific. The art sections are usually kind of small, so I've ended up finding a lot of online retailers. I've gotten pretty good at being able to figure out whether a book is going to be visually interesting based on the online listing. I will even look at the size of the book, if they list dimensions, to give me ideas. If it seems like a good coffee table art book with lots of pictures, that's what I'm trying to find. Something with lots of great images. Sharon: It sounds like people would be very interested in your leftovers. Jennifer: I have a whole shelf of these books that are like little skeletons. You can see the sections where I've really gone to town ripping pages out, and then other sections that are left. There's plenty of things I leave in the book that I think are amazing, but they just aren't going to work for jewelry. Yeah, I've got a lot of skeleton books on my shelf. I keep them. I can't get rid of them. Sharon: I like that, skeleton books. Once again, it’s a Herculean task, the whole thing of starting your own business. Would you say that there is somebody that inspired you and keeps inspiring you? Jennifer: I wouldn't say it's a specific person. I think after that initial, tiny show that I did trying to sell my work, I think the most inspiring thing was seeing the other artists and seeing people that were making a living doing their work. I think that's what's really inspiring to me, finally meeting other people that were already doing what I wanted to do and realizing, “Wow, this is a viable career path.” There's not a lot of artists in my family, so no one really had any advice to give me back in the day. They weren't necessarily unsupportive, but they didn't really know how to encourage my art, either. It's been very helpful getting out there and seeing people that are doing things and just being inspired. Different artists and different people inspire me for very different reasons. Some artists, their work is the thing that inspires you, and other artists have such a great work ethic or a really creative way of marketing. I try to keep my eyes and ears open all the time, and I let inspirations muddle around in my brain. And then one day some other thing will trigger an idea. You just never know. I try to always be open. Sharon: I'm surprised; I usually see you at shows where there are a lot of other art jewelers, which is what I categorize you as. I see art jewelers, makers a lot. I'm thinking of New York City Jewelry Week, which is where I saw you once or twice. The last time I saw you, I wasn't able to say hello. I would think you'd be more—well, maybe it's the way I am, but I'd be more envious or competitive seeing all the other art jewelers, as opposed to finding inspiration. Jennifer: I don't know. I don't think of it as a competition in any way. I think it helps me a lot because my work is so different from everyone else's, so there isn't a super direct comparison. I think maybe for some other types of jewelers it might be a little different because there is more of a direct comparison with their aesthetic or their materials. In that respect, there isn't really competition. I used to be a lot more of a competitive person, but as I've gotten older and been in the business long enough and met all different artists, you just see that it's so much more about passion and drive. You can be successful doing just about anything if you're willing to put the work in. I’ve met so many different people with so many different types of jewelry and art, and they're successful in radically different ways. Even if some other artist is successful in a way that will never work for me, I still love learning about what they're doing. Even if it doesn't directly apply to me, there's something in that lesson, in listening to them and their story that might click something for me in an indirect manner. So, I really do try to be open and inspired by everyone, and I definitely don't see it as competition. I think it's great seeing more and more art jewelers getting work out there, making things that are big and bold and wild and weird materials. The more of it that's out there, the better for all of us, because then the consumer or the client is seeing more of it out in the world. Then when they come across my work, it might not seem as weird or as off putting. They might get it a little bit faster and a little bit easier because of all the other people that came before me and all the people that are alongside me. I think working together as a community, being inspired by each other, helping each other be successful, that can only help all of us. Sharon: Do you think when people first see your art, they don't think of it as jewelry because it doesn't have diamonds or emeralds? Do they think of it as a throw away, in a way? Jennifer: Oh, yeah. I've had the gamut of reactions to my work, and it really depends on the setting it’s in as well as how people respond to it. There are definitely people out there that, to them, jewelry is diamonds and gold, and that's fine. I might not be able to change their mind. Other people see the work and, right away, think it looks cool. Maybe they didn't even know it was a bracelet, but they were drawn to it. Then when they find out it's an actual wearable piece, they're even more blown away. You never know what kind of reaction you're going to get from people. I've definitely had to do a lot of educating on my process and the materials because when someone sees a plastic necklace that costs $2,000, they kind of scratch their heads, like, “What is going on here?” And then I tell them all about the process and all the different steps and all the different things that went into it. Sometimes you win people over, and sometimes they're like, “Why bother?” I just try to pay more attention to the people that are won over and interested. If they're not, that's fine. I know my work is not for everyone, and I'm okay with that. Sharon: That’s an interesting philosophy. You’ve given me a different perspective as well on your jewelry. Thank you for being here today, Jennifer. Jennifer: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. It's been a pleasure. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 224 Part 1: How Jennifer Merchant Continues the Tradition of Op Art in her Jewelry
06/05/2024
Episode 224 Part 1: How Jennifer Merchant Continues the Tradition of Op Art in her Jewelry
What you’ll learn in this episode: Jennifer’s unique process of layering acrylic and art images, and how she discovered her signature technique. Why the most important thing a young artist can do is find their voice. Why Jennifer rarely uses images her customers request in her jewelry. How Jennifer’s work ties into the history of pop and op art. Why Jennifer sees other art jewelers as inspiration, not competition. About Jennifer Merchant: Jennifer Merchant is a studio t based in Minneapolis, MN. She graduated with a BFA in Metals and Jewelry from the Savannah College of Art and Design. She is a full-time artist showcasing her work in galleries, museums and exhibitions. Her work has been published in several national magazines such as American Craft, Ornament and Delta Sky Magazine. Merchant is best known for her innovative layered acrylic process in which images and prints are layered between solid acrylic. Her work is graphic with clean lines and modern aesthetic. Pieces confound viewers, appearing transparent from one angle of view while showcasing bold patterns and colors from another. Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional resources: Transcript: Like the op and pop art that inspires it, Jennifer Merchant’s jewelry challenges your eye. Clear from some angles and bold and colorful from others, the jewelry is created by layering acrylic with images from art books. Jennifer joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she developed her technique; how she chooses the images in her jewelry; and why art jewelers need to work together to push the discipline forward. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, my guest is Jennifer Merchant. Jennifer was also a guest several years ago. She thought she would be a metalsmith but segued to acrylic jewelry, which is what she has become known for: creative and innovative acrylic jewelry such as necklaces, bracelets, earrings and brooches. They have eye-catching graphics embedded in them. I was also surprised to learn that hand carving is sometimes involved. Jennifer exhibits all over the country. She's been an active member of SNAG, the Society of North American Goldsmiths. She is also a member of other major jewelry organizations. Jennifer is going to tell us all about why she has chosen this route and her process in general. Jennifer, welcome to the program. Jennifer: Thank you so much for having me, Sharon. Sharon: I'm glad to have you. Why did you start working with acrylics? Jennifer: I actually started working with acrylic while I was still in college at the Savannah College of Art and Design studying metalsmithing and jewelry. Our professor gave us little chunks of acrylic one day, probably with the thought of using it for die forms. But I decided, “Hey, you can cut and sculpt this very similarly to working with waxes for lost wax casting.” I liked the immediacy of the acrylic, that once you carved it and sculpted it and polished it, it was a finished piece. It had a lot of really cool optical properties. So, I always kept it on the back burner as an interesting material. Then when I graduated from college and I moved back to my hometown of Minneapolis, I didn't have the tools and equipment to keep working with metal. So, I kind of fell into, “Hey, there was that acrylic I worked with a couple of times in school. It was very interesting. Let's see what we can do with that,” because it was cheap, and I could cut it with simple tools. I started experimenting with it from there. Sharon: And you make all sorts of jewelry with it. Do you know when you start out that you'll be making a necklace or a bracelet with the pieces you have, or do they talk to you as you put them together? Jennifer: I make pieces both ways. Sometimes I'll design a piece very specifically and have an idea and a picture in my mind of what I'm making. But then there's other times, especially when I'm working with the scraps that are left over from pieces that I've made in the past. A lot of those scraps are still very interesting, and they'll be in weird shapes. Those will speak to me, and I'll create something new and different with some of those. I kind of work both ways. Sharon: I know you're in a lot of stores and galleries. Do stores tell you what to do, or do you just say, “Here it is, do you like it”? Jennifer: I'm more of a, “Here's what I've been making. Let me know which ones you like.” I think sometimes it's important to follow your own inspirations. People tend to be drawn to the things that I'm most excited to make. That being said, some galleries have different clientele bases with different price points, so they’ll tell me, “Hey, these pieces were working really well.” I'll take some feedback. But ultimately, I focus on making the things that I'm drawn to. Sharon: Do you have a studio inside your home or do you have a place that you go? Jennifer: For years I did have a studio outside of my home that I really loved, but a few years ago my husband and I bought a home, and I decided to move my jewelry practice into my home. So, now I work from home. But who knows, maybe in the future I'll expand a little bit and have another space in addition outside the home. It can be kind of a challenge working at home sometimes, but I've done both. I like working both ways, so we'll see what the future has for me. Sharon: Do you have assistants who work with you? Jennifer: I've had assistants in the past. I don't anymore. I scaled my business way back during COVID and took a breather to reevaluate what I'm doing and where my motivations are. I'm only just beginning to build it back. At this point, I don't work with anyone, but hopefully in the future I can find someone to help out with some of the production. It's a little challenging to find an assistant because my process is very unique. It's not something that people know how to do, so there's a lot of training involved. When I do work with people, it takes quite a while to get somebody that can help finish pieces to the quality standards that my galleries and clients expect. Sharon: When you were reevaluating things, what did you decide? Did your method change during COVID? Jennifer: I think things just slowed way down during COVID. 2020, honestly, it was going to be my year. I had a couple of really big events planned, one of which I got to do because it was in February, but the rest all moved online. There was such a lull in events and things to participate in. I had started questioning what my motivations are, because you really have to love what you're doing in order to be an artist as a profession. We had bought a house and were settling in. I've just been taking the last few years to figure out life so I can bring my A-game to my business again. Sharon: Did you stop production because you were doing it yourself during COVID? Jennifer: I did slow way down on production. If I had a client that was interested in something, or if I had an online event or that kind of thing, that would motivate me to produce some new pieces. But there were just fewer things going on to spark that creation. I have a harder time making things just because. I like to have an outside influence, like a show that's coming up or events that are going to happen and people are going to see my pieces. When I don't know when those things are going on, I have a little bit of a harder time. I think that is why during COVID, everything slowed down for me especially. But it also gave me a lot of time to think about what I want out of my business and where I want to go. And in May, I'll be launching my first web shop where you can actually buy my pieces directly from me. Sharon: Wow. I know that's a Herculean task. Jennifer: For me personally, the web shop is an extra big step because all of my pieces, even my production work, is one of a kind because of the images I'm using within my jewelry. They're all found images from art books and other sources. So, even if it's the same shape, like the marquee hoop earring, no two are going to be the exact same. So, every time I list a piece online for sale, I have to photograph each and every single one of them. It's taken a long time to get some of those things down where I could do it quickly enough and efficiently enough to be able to post all of these pieces with the right listings. It's a lot more work than having a design where you can put a picture of it and sell 25 of them. It's been a daunting thing to tackle. Sharon: Did you have to wait until you were efficient at photographing and making them so you could just churn them out? Jennifer: My work is very difficult to photograph because it is clear and transparent from some angles, and then it's bright and colorful from others. It's also very reflective. So, trying to photograph it cleanly and communicate the piece in a single image is very difficult. My work tends to resonate more from multiple angles. It has taken years to figure out the best way to represent these pieces in an image or two. Sharon: The online shop, do you think it's your most valuable social media outlet? Is there one? What do you think that is? Jennifer: For me, I'm not huge on social media. Instagram, I think, is the most fun. It's very image forward, which is something I really enjoy. Definitely, as I launch my website, I will be on social media a lot more to market. I think up until now I've mostly worked with galleries and shops or done specific events, so I haven't cultivated my online audience as much. I'm excited to explore that new chapter and get more into it and see what I can do from my home. That way in the future, when something happens where in-person events may not be happening as much, I can still have a connection to my audience. I've been getting asked for years, “Where can I find your pieces?” Because everything is one of a kind, if it's at a gallery in California, someone in Georgia is going to have a hard time getting their hands on it. I think it'll be really nice having my own shop so that people can have one destination to go, as well as all of the others, to be able to have that access. Sharon: How did you start getting galleries and stores interested in you? Jennifer: I have been contacted by most of the places that I work with. Earlier in my career, I did a lot more events and shows and I was able to meet gallery owners. Also, early on in my career, I met some of the people that work for the American Craft Council, which is based in Minneapolis. When they saw a local Minneapolis artist at a show in Chicago and met me and thought my work was cool, they were like, “You're in our city. Let's invite her to some events.” They really took me under their wing and wrote about my work and got me out there. I got a lot of contacts just from people seeing the articles that they had posted. For me, it's been a lot of just doing what I do, and because my work is so unique and different, people that it resonates with will remember and contact me, like, “Hey, we've never seen anything like this. Let's try it out at our gallery.” I've been very fortunate in that way, where I haven't really had to go out on my own, cold calling and trying to get appointments and that sort of thing. I just try to make really interesting work, get it out there as much as I can, and then hope that it snowballs from there. So far, that's been working for me. Sharon: Wow. I think it's great that you didn't have to cold call and that people were interested in your stuff, which is very unusual. I don't know anybody who does anything like that. So, you’re very lucky. Jennifer: I'm very lucky that it worked out for me because I can be a little socially awkward with the cold calling and things like that. That was never my favorite part of the business. I am fortunate that my work speaks for itself. It's kind of a love it or hate it thing, which can be its own challenge, but it's definitely unique enough where when people see it, if they're interested, they will hunt me down and ask me about it. That's been very nice. Sharon: If an outlet wants more than one, maybe they want five bracelets, do you tell them right away that you can make the five bracelets, but they’ll all have different graphics? Jennifer: Yeah. I did a couple wholesale shows a while ago where it was that challenge of, “Well, here's a design, but they're all going to be different, and you're not really going to know until you get them.” I think most people that are interested in my work like that one-of-a-kind nature of it. That's part of the interest, so they trust me. If they get pieces that maybe that imagery doesn't speak to them or their clientele, we'll talk about it and I can swap it out, get them some prints and patterns that they like better. It's kind of a back-and-forth process. And the longer I work with a gallery or a person, the more I get to know what works there. Then I can tailor my offerings to them for what works. Sharon: Where do you find your images and the pictures that you put in your jewelry? Jennifer: When I first started, I was using magazines because they were readily available, fairly inexpensive, and that's how I started this whole process of layered acrylic. But the paper in those is not very good quality and the pictures fade. It's also a challenge to find enough usable content. So, then I started purchasing art books. I would become interested in a specific artist and start collecting books about their work, and those books always had a lot of really amazing images. They're printed on really nice paper with good quality inks, and they're much more successful layering than magazines. Now I exclusively use books. I've become somewhat of a rare and vintage book collector. It's a really fun part of my job, hunting down these different books, figuring out artists that inspire me to start collecting things about their work and then finding really cool images. If there's a particular book that has a lot of really great images that I like, I will start looking for other copies of it. There are certain books about Roy Lichtenstein's work. There’s one about posters that has a catalog in the back with all these smaller thumbnail images, and they're so great for making earrings, things like that. I must've bought that book like 10 times. So, that's where I get my images. It's all purchased materials like books that I then rip up and cut up and put in between the acrylic. Sharon: Well, you answered the question. I was going to ask you if you cut the books up or what you do. You also mentioned that magazines got you going with layered acrylic. Can you tell us about that? Jennifer: When I was younger, I subscribed to all kinds of fashion magazines and fun things, and I would keep them after reading them. I had shelves and shelves of magazines. When I first started working with acrylic, I had this idea that acrylic has pretty cool visual properties, optical properties, and when you put images underneath it, it looks so interesting. That's when I started going through my fashion magazines, lots of issues of Vogue. I would see cool prints on dresses and things like that, and I would rip those pages out and try to fit the prints and things that were in there within my jewelry designs. That's how I got started with the whole thing. It was just cheap materials I already had. Sharon: What are your sales policies? Do you accept returns? If I'm a client and you give me something and I say, “No, that's not what I want,” do you accept returns? What do you do? Jennifer: Yeah, I do accept returns. I think it depends. If it's a piece that already existed and they buy it and it just didn't work out, or it doesn't fit quite right or it wasn't what they were expecting, absolutely. It becomes a little more of a gray area when it's a custom piece, when someone wants specific imagery and this and that. That tends to be a little more delicate. That being said, I want people to keep my jewelry because they love it, not because they're trapped. So, even a custom order, if it doesn't come out quite as they were expecting, I try to work with people to either make it right or try something new. Some of the events that I do, it's a museum show where they're handling the sales and they're getting a commission, I'm getting a commission from the sale. Even though I'm selling to the customer directly, because it goes through the museum, usually it's an all-sales-are-final type situation, just because of the nature of the commissions and if they've already paid me and then the person changes their mind. It depends on the venue through which I'm selling the work. I would say most times, yes, returns are acceptable within a certain time frame, but there are certain instances where they are final sale. But even in that situation—I had a client come a couple of years later to a show, and she had this ring. I decided, “You know what? It's a really cool ring. Let's swap it out.” She wanted a pendant. I like to be a little flexible. Like I said, I want people to have my jewelry because they love it, not because they're forced to keep it. Sharon: I'm curious; in your studio, do you have pets that keep you company? Jennifer: I do. I've got a dog and a cat. My cat, Shackleton, likes to work with me. I have two workspaces in my home. Downstairs is the shop, the studio, and then upstairs I have an office where I do the bonding and the image gathering and looking through layouts. The cat, Shackleton, likes to hang out upstairs in the office and sit on all my papers and be in the way, but be very cute. Then my dog, her name's Sophia. She tends to stay out of the studio because it's loud and dusty. She'll come in the office and hang out, too, sometimes. But I don't know. She kind of does her own thing. She lets me work. Sharon: Well, it sounds like nice company. Do you make more than one piece at a time? All the pieces and extras, let's say, do you put them in a closet and then pull them out if somebody wants them? What do you do? Jennifer: I definitely always have some inventory on hand. I think as far as when I'm making pieces, as I was saying earlier, I tend to make when I have an event or I'm preparing for something coming up. Then I'll usually go above and beyond and make extra just to have. Also, because my pieces are one of a kind and the imagery is different on each earring, each ring, each bracelet, I will make more than I know I'm going to need or sell at a specific time, mostly to have options for my clients, because all the pieces are different and have different images. You never know what someone's going to be drawn to. It's especially difficult with things that have a size, like a ring or a bracelet. Then I make tons of them because you have to have lots of options. With those kinds of things, I'll take a lot more custom orders because someone will see something in person that they love, but it's not their size. I do my best to recreate things for people. I don't generally remake things with the exact same images because usually it's impossible, but I will do my best to get something with a similar aesthetic or feeling for people. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 223 Part 2: How Gabriela Sierra Made the Jump from Packaging Design to Jewelry Design
05/31/2024
Episode 223 Part 2: How Gabriela Sierra Made the Jump from Packaging Design to Jewelry Design
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Gabriela produces jewelry in Mexico, manages her business from Montreal, and sells her jewelry worldwide. Gabriela’s favorite stone to work with, and how she chooses and sources gems for her colorful jewelry. How moving from Mexico to Canada (and experiencing seasons for the first time) influenced Gabriela’s work. What it means for jewelry to be slow made. Why COVID prompted Gabriela to transition from packaging design to jewelry design, and how she overcame her hesitation to call herself a jewelry maker. About Gabriela Sierra Gaby, designer and creator of Gabriela Sierra jewelry, is anything but a minimalist. Unafraid of color, she plays with bold shapes, textures and asymmetry. Her meticulously crafted pieces are meant to be conversation starters. With a background in Industrial Design followed by a variety of courses at Alchimia Contemporary Jewellery School, Gabriela Sierra merges design and fashion to create unique sculptural jewelry. The brand seeks to reflect the spirit of the slowmade process (quality over quantity). Founded in 2021, Gabriela Sierra is committed to good design by focusing on quality materials and the revaluation of craftsmanship. Her work has been shown at different worldwide exhibitions: "Todo es Diseño" Queretaro, Mexico 2021 "The Fab" Milano Jewelry Week 2022 "Cluster Contemporary Jewelry", London 2022 "The Earring Show", Vancouver, Canada 2023 "Earrings Galore 2023 - 2024", United States Additional Resources: Photos available on Transcript: Expertly combining bold colors and shapes in her jewelry, it’s clear that Gabriela Sierra has an eye for design. Beginning her career in furniture and packaging design, Gabriela made her lifelong dream of becoming a jewelry maker come true in 2021, when she opened Gabriela Sierra Jewelry. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how her upbringing in Mexico and her current home in Montreal influence her work; why her business follows “slow made” principles; and how she became more confident about calling herself a jewelry designer. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, I'm talking with Gabriela Sierra of Gabriela Sierra Jewelry. Welcome back. So, everything might not be handcrafted, but you have chosen those individual stones to go together or the kind of stone to work with. For instance, will you choose a faceted stone to work with? Could you have a combination of a faceted stone with a cabochon with a smooth curve? Gabriela: Yes. I already have some designs before combining these different types of cuts. Yes, for sure. I'm not like, “I'm just going to work with cabochon and that's it.” No. I think t I'm open to work with different kinds of cuts. I like to work with cuts that are not the traditional ones. I just create new cuts and new cuts, and then as I mentioned, I make an order with my suppliers to have a sample to see if it really works, because in my mind everything works perfectly. I need to see the real thing physically, here with me in my hands, to see if everything is okay. Sharon: Do you go to the Tucson Show in Arizona to choose stones? Gabriela: No, I haven’t had a chance to go. I see the videos and I see that all the jewelers I follow go there. I do wish to go there, but I just recently received my American visa. That was one of the reasons why I didn't go to the Tucson Show. But I would love to have the opportunity to go. Maybe next year. For sure, I want to go. Next year it's easier. Here in Montreal there's also a gem show, a smaller version. It was last year. I think it's here every year. I went there last year, and it was very good. Of course, to a new person it's just huge. There are a lot of suppliers from everywhere, from every part of the world, so I really wanted to go. Sharon: How do you decide if it's a good quality stone versus one that's not as good? Is it just by eye, or do you look through a loupe? Gabriela: I don't have a lot of knowledge. I’m not trained to really recognize if a stone is a very good quality stone. I think I just need to love the stone and see that it’s without any breakage, it's not with a hole or some kind of damage. I need to love the stone, and it needs to be a good cut in my opinion. I'm not an expert gemologist, so I cannot tell if it's perfectly cut. I just need to see the stone and if it's love at first sight. If I love the stone, it's perfect. Sharon: Does it have to fit a certain bezel or do you make the bezel to fit the stone? Most of your gems seem to be bezel set. Gabriela: At the beginning, when I first chose the stones and then designed, yes, I based my design on the gemstone. I created the bezel around it. But after that, when I had a clear concept, I designed first and then chose the stone. When I order the stones, they need to be the size that I need because I cannot change the design. But yes, basically all my gemstones are with a bezel. Sharon: Do you have a studio outside your home, or a place inside your apartment or home where you design your jewelry? Gabriela: In Mexico, my studio is in my house in Querétaro. Querétaro is the city where I live. It's in my house. The first floor is all my studio. Now Samantha is working there. But now here in Montréal, last year, last October, I found a place that rents a space for jewelers. I'm a resident there and I work from there. I have all the necessary things because it's an atelier. The atelier is called Artéfact. A lot of jewelers from Montreal rent their space and work there to create their pieces. Sharon: Can you go any time, or do you have to sign up for certain times? Gabriela: No, because I'm a resident, I can go if I want to go. During the night I can go. Any time I want. They give classes there also, but it doesn't matter if they are giving classes. I can go whenever I want. In Montreal it’s a little bit different. It's difficult to have a studio in your house or apartment. You need a permit because you’re working with gas, with fire, with chemicals. It’s different. In Mexico we don't need permits to have a gas tank in our house. Here it’s a little bit different. Sharon: Do you ever get nervous working with fire and chemicals? Does that make you nervous? Gabriela: At the beginning, yes. Yes, of course. Because you’re working with gas, if you're not careful enough, there could be an accident. Also, because my studio is in my house, I was worried at the beginning that I needed to be very careful because this is my house. My husband lives here. My stuff is here. So, yeah, I need to be careful. I was nervous at the beginning because I was working with fire. But you just need to follow the steps. That's it. If you work carefully and follow the precautions, you are good. Sharon: And you have a pet. Do they keep you company in the studio? Where do they keep you company? Gabriela: Yes, I have a dog. Her name is Jude Right now, she is in Mexico, but I will bring her here very soon because I miss her so much. She was the one reminding me every day, “Hey, Gabi, it's time to go home. I'm hungry. Let's go home.” Home for her was the second floor of our house. I miss her so much. It's more than love for me and for my husband. Sharon: Does she comfort you? If you're having a bad day with the stones, do you get comfort from her? Gabriela: Yes. I don't know what dogs have, but they know if you are feeling bad or you are sad or you are happy. They just know. She approaches every time I feel bad or sad, or I break a bezel or I break a gemstone. She knows. Also because I scream a lot and I'm saying bad words. Sharon: I want to talk to you a little bit about starting the business, deciding to start the business and keeping it going. You're newer in your making journey than some of the people I've talked to on the podcast. What made you decide that it was time to leave? Gabriela: Well, COVID hit, and I think for many people, it was a time to reflect, and I reflected and reevaluated my path. That was the moment that I decided to quit my job as a packaging specialist. It was hard. A lot of people called me crazy because it was a very difficult time, but I was so sure. I don't know what COVID had at that particular time but it gave me a signal or something that I wasn't in the right place. That particular time was hard, but it gave me the strength to start my jewelry business and start to set up my studio. During COVID, I took some classes to refresh the techniques that I had learned years before at Alchimia to start making jewelry. I learned a lot of techniques, but the years passed, and I needed a refresh. But it was hard. I’m not going to lie; it was really hard. Because I was new, I was scared. I was afraid of failure. In my mind, I was thinking, “Who is going to buy my jewelry? Who is going to like my jewelry? How will I pay all my bills.?” All those questions started to appear in my mind. You asked me a question about how I introduce myself, and I told you that I felt comfortable to say I was a jewelry maker a year ago. I had a lot of insecurity. I wasn't sure that I was a jewelry maker because I wasn't prepared in a jewelry school. I didn't have the proper school, I didn't have a proper education for being a jeweler. It was tough at the beginning, but then my work started to get noticed, to get exposed, and I had the opportunity to be in different exhibitions. I think the trust grew from there, and I feel more and more comfortable calling myself a jewelry maker now. Sharon: What is your distribution? How do people hear about you? Do people place orders at shows, or do you exhibit all over the world? Gabriela: Mainly my clients buy the pieces from my webpage. I also have my pieces in some stores in Mexico City. Right now, I have some of my pieces in Vancouver in a gallery. For exhibitions, they could have been bought during the exhibitions, but the exhibition is just for a couple of days, and those exhibitions were one or two years ago. The other one was two years ago. The last one is actually right now. It's Earrings Galore. The last place this exhibition was in was Mexico City, actually. Before that, Earrings Galore was in New York City at New York City Jewelry Week. Sharon: You exhibited there. Do you have to go into galleries? Are you a salesperson? Are you the salesperson, or do you put the jewelry out and people can decide what they're doing? Gabriela: Well, I'm the one who gets all the customers’ messages and everything, but in the exhibitions, I cannot go to every single one of them, so I just send the pieces and there’s a person there in charge of showing the pieces and selling the pieces. Sharon: Do you ever have to go to galleries and sell your stuff? You mentioned these stores in Mexico City that have your things. Did you have to show it yourself? Did they see your pieces and like them beforehand without knowing you? How did it work? Gabriela: For example, that one in Mexico City, I couldn't be there because I was here in Montreal. So, they could go to the exhibition and see my pieces there and try them on, see if they like them or not, but I couldn't be there. I wish I could have, but I couldn't. I want to go and attend different expositions or craft fairs. I want to start doing those, probably next year or at the end of this year. Sharon: Who buys your jewelry? Who buys your earrings? Do men buy them for women? Do women buy them for themselves? Gabriela: My main customers are from the U.S., actually. And most of my customers, the majority are women. A few of them are men. Actually, they are the ones who message me first through my Instagram account and ask me, “My wife really likes these earrings. She's showing me these earrings, but I don't know if she is going to wear them. Can you tell me if they are too big or too heavy? Can you show me pictures or a video wearing them?” Sometimes I can do that because if you message me through my Instagram account, I'm the one who answers every single message. Maybe I can take a little bit long to answer back, but for sure you will get an answer. Sharon: You mentioned COVID. Did that affect taking classes? Were you doing it through Zoom? Did it affect your business? How did you do it? Gabriela: During COVID, yeah. Mexico had a lot of restrictions, but during COVID, I went to my friend's studio. She is an amazing jeweler also. She was giving classes to a small group of people. We were three people per class, with distance between each other. So, yes, we had the classes in person. I basically didn't sell during the first year of COVID because in that year I was still working in packaging. The second year of COVID, I was almost ready. My studio was almost ready. I just started to show my work on my Instagram account, but I had just 20 followers or something. It was just the beginning. I really can’t tell you if COVID affected me as a brand because I was just beginning. Sharon: What kind of brand were you after? Give us some buzzwords about your brand. Are you high end? Are you for everyone? Tell us a little bit about your jewelry. Gabriela: Yes, of course. As I mentioned, I really like bold colors and shapes. I love to work with asymmetry and statement pieces. I love when my clients tell me that someone stopped and asked her, “I love your earrings! Where did you buy them?” I love them to be conversation starters. The main focus or the reason that I wake up every morning to make these pieces is to make people smile just looking at my pieces. I love to play with color. Bold colors, bold shapes, big earrings. Sharon: You consider your jewelry a conversation starter. Is the way that people hear about your earrings, let’s say, by word of mouth? Tell us a little bit about that. Gabriela: At the beginning when I started, my first customers were people from my city in Querétaro because I started to pay for some announcements, just in my city or in Mexico City. I started first with friends and family, as a normal startup or business that just starts. Then the word spread a little bit. Then it was like, “My friend Blanca told me about you and I love her earrings. Can you show me your earrings?” At that particular time, I didn't have a web page. I just had my Instagram account. So, with WhatsApp, I would send them some pictures of the pieces that I had at that particular moment, some videos of me wearing them. Also, if they wanted, because it was COVID still, I’d invite them to my studio to see the earrings in person. Right now, because my journey started on Instagram, boutiques got in touch with me to ask for my pieces. Then the clients grew because I had pieces in Mexico City or in Guadalajara. Then I started to learn about a little bit of marketing, making advertisements on Instagram or Facebook to show my pieces to markets out there in the United States and Europe and Japan. It was amazing for me to see how Instagram helped me grow my business, to show my pieces in Japan or New Zealand or Europe. For me, it was amazing because I didn't think my pieces would go there and people from there were going to like my pieces. Sharon: I could see how that would be exciting. Well, we wish you the best and that your business keeps going. Thank you very much. Gabriela: Thank you so much, Sharon. Thank you so much for this opportunity and for your invitation. I really appreciate it. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 223 Part 1: How Gabriela Sierra Made the Jump from Packaging Design to Jewelry Design
05/29/2024
Episode 223 Part 1: How Gabriela Sierra Made the Jump from Packaging Design to Jewelry Design
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Gabriela produces jewelry in Mexico, manages her business from Montreal, and sells her jewelry worldwide. Gabriela’s favorite stone to work with, and how she chooses and sources gems for her colorful jewelry. How moving from Mexico to Canada (and experiencing seasons for the first time) influenced Gabriela’s work. What it means for jewelry to be slow made. Why COVID prompted Gabriela to transition from packaging design to jewelry design, and how she overcame her hesitation to call herself a jewelry maker. About Gabriela Sierra Gaby, designer and creator of Gabriela Sierra jewelry, is anything but a minimalist. Unafraid of color, she plays with bold shapes, textures and asymmetry. Her meticulously crafted pieces are meant to be conversation starters. With a background in Industrial Design followed by a variety of courses at Alchimia Contemporary Jewellery School, Gabriela Sierra merges design and fashion to create unique sculptural jewelry. The brand seeks to reflect the spirit of the slowmade process (quality over quantity). Founded in 2021, Gabriela Sierra is committed to good design by focusing on quality materials and the revaluation of craftsmanship. Her work has been shown at different worldwide exhibitions: "Todo es Diseño" Queretaro, Mexico 2021 "The Fab" Milano Jewelry Week 2022 "Cluster Contemporary Jewelry", London 2022 "The Earring Show", Vancouver, Canada 2023 "Earrings Galore 2023 - 2024", United States Additional Resources: Photos available on Transcript: Expertly combining bold colors and shapes in her jewelry, it’s clear that Gabriela Sierra has an eye for design. Beginning her career in furniture and packaging design, Gabriela made her lifelong dream of becoming a jewelry maker come true in 2021, when she opened Gabriela Sierra Jewelry. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how her upbringing in Mexico and her current home in Montreal influence her work; why her business follows “slow made” principles; and how she became more confident about calling herself a jewelry designer. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, I'm talking with Gabriela Sierra of Gabriela Sierra Jewelry. Her Mexican heritage shines through because of the bold colors in her jewelry. You will immediately see that when you look at her jewelry. I'm talking to her today, and she's in Canada, where she travels. She specializes in earrings. She uses recycled silver, and the stones she uses come from small, independent mines or mines that are located in Mexico. She believes in slow made. Her jewelry is meticulously crafted, and she does not have any inventory on hand. Almost everything is made to order at somebody’s request. Today, Gabriela will tell us about her business and how it works. Gabriela, welcome to the program. Gabriela: I'm so excited to be here, Sharon. Thank you so much for inviting me. Sharon: Can you tell us how you decided on jewelry as a profession? Gabriela: Yes, sure. Well, I have always been drawn to jewelry since I was a kid. I was influenced by my mom and my grandmother. I remember her presence was always announced by the clicking of her bangles and her bold earrings. I studied industrial design, and during university I took a jewelry class. That experience started everything, just initiated my passion. Basically, it started from that. I knew at that particular moment that I needed to find further training, so after I finished university, I took a four-month course at Alchimia Contemporary Jewelry School. I had an amazing time there, and also the teachers were absolutely wonderful. However, it took me some time to find the courage to start my own brand, which I did eventually, after eight years. Now I'm here. Sharon: So, you studied industrial design before? Gabriela: Yeah. Sharon: Your passion for jewelry must have been underlying, and the industrial design really brought it out. So, after eight years, you decided to start your own brand. During most of that time, were you making different kinds of jewelry? Gabriela: No, actually, when I came back to Mexico after taking the course at Alchimia, I was so afraid of failure. That's why I didn't start my own brand at that particular time. In my mind, it was better to find a normal job. So, during those eight years, I worked as a designer for furniture. I also specialized as a packaging engineer or packaging specialist. Basically, I wasn't working in jewelry those eight years. Sharon: But you were working in design, right? Gabriela: Yeah. Sharon: Did your background help you in all of this? Does industrial design help? Gabriela: Yes, of course. I think yeah, absolutely. Since the first job that I had, designing furniture, I actually like all the stripped elements. I take a lot of influence and ideas from what I see outside. You can actually see a few of my designs being an idea of a light bulb, for example. I think it helped a lot. Also talking about packaging, especially the job that I had, it helped me a lot to understand a little bit of marketing and, of course, packaging. It gave me a big picture to understand a little bit more, not just the design part, but everything else, all the different areas involving the launch of a product. Sharon: I'm sure you do a whole range of jewelry, but right now you seem to focus more on earrings. Is that true? And, if so, why? Gabriela: Right now, yes, my main focus is on earrings. A month ago I started creating rings, a series of rings. But yes, I love earrings and my main focus is earrings. Why? The earrings are easier—not to create, but rings need to be sized. For me and in my experience, it’s easier to make earrings for everyone. Rings need to be sized, so it's not for everyone. Sharon: Do you think you'll stick with earrings? Do you think you'll branch out from earrings to other things or stick with earrings? Gabriela: No, I think I will start creating other things later on. Right now, I will create the series of rings. After that, I will probably start with some necklaces. But for sure, I will start doing things differently. I’m from Mexico, but right now, I've been living in Montreal since last August. I came from another country and I’m learning about the culture here. Also, because I’m an atelier, I’m opening a new studio here in Montreal. I’m getting to know new artists and learning about them and their techniques. I think that travel helps a lot to create new things, just absorbing everything. So, I'm sure I'm going to create different things in the future, not just the earrings. Sharon: Do you have ideas that you think about when you travel or see when you’re in Montreal? Does it give you ideas for different kinds of jewelry? Gabriela: Yes, actually, my rings. I have made just three of them. I want to make 10. The concept behind the rings is winter. This is the first winter that I spent here in Montreal. What's beautiful is that it was the first time I saw snow. For me, it was beautiful. It was a big change. And it wasn’t just beautiful, it was also very hard. I wanted to encapsulate this snow in these rings. They are quartz. They're carbon quartz, but the inside is similar to snow. What I wanted to create there was the idea of encapsulating snow, encapsulating that particular moment that I saw the snow on the street. They are big, they are bold. Yeah, they're big. Sharon: Do you like the snow? Can you find it in Mexico, like in the mountains or somewhere? Gabriela: Yes, you can find snow in Mexico, probably in the mountains or in the north of Mexico, like very close to the United States. But it’s not like here. The winter in Montreal is very tough. I think once we were -16 Celsius, so it’s very hard. Sharon: Why do you manufacture in Mexico? I assume it's less expensive to manufacture there. Gabriela: Well, my studio remains in Querétaro. My partner, Samantha, is in charge of making the pieces that can be replicated there. I'm the one in charge of overseas, making sure everything runs smoothly in Querétaro. Here, I work and make the one-of-a-kind pieces. Basically, most of the pieces are shipped from Querétaro. The silver is from Mexico. Most of the stones are from Mexico also. The pieces that I make here, most of the stones are from here or the United States. These particular pieces are shipped from here because I made them here. Sharon: How do you decide which stones in which colors? You seem to flip, using the same color but a different combination, and some are totally different. Gabriela: I think at the beginning when I didn't have a clear concept, I let the stones guide me through the combinations of the pieces. But after that, now that I have a clearer concept, I design first and then I pick the gemstones. Mexico is a country with a lot of gemstones, so I have a wide variety to choose from. I didn't have any problem finding beautiful gemstones there. But yeah, at the beginning, the stones basically guided me. I designed pieces based on the stone and the shape of the stone, then I created the pieces. Now, I’ve had more time designing and creating jewelry, so I first create the design and then decide which stone will be better with the design and the concept. Sharon: When you say the stones guided you, do the stones ever talk to you and tell you what they should be or what they should be combined with? Gabriela: Yes, absolutely. It's funny, but yes. It is something that I used to say. “The earnings are like this this because they told me they needed to be combined with this stone in this particular shape in this particular order.” Yeah, the stones talk to me a lot. It was more at the beginning, but now they just say, “Okay, I like your design, so yes, we can go together.” Sharon: Do they ever say, “No, that's not right,” or “I don't like this”? Gabriela: Yes, they do. For example, I first design a piece. Then I send the drawing to my supplier or different suppliers. I receive a sample, and then I see it with the silver, and I try them and finish that prototype. I need to see if they are good together, and sometimes it’s just not right. It feels not right. Maybe those stones don’t want to be next to the silver or this particular stone. I don't know. But yeah, totally. Sharon: So you use different suppliers for stones? Gabriela: Yes. In Mexico, as I previously said, we have a lot of options, and I have great connections with local suppliers here. The first one, the main one was Don Guille he was the first lapidary that I worked with. Sharon: I'm sorry; is that a company name or a person's name? Gabriela: I'm sorry. I called him by his nickname. His name is Guillermo. Sharon: Okay. That's where you got your first stones from? Gabriela: Yeah. He passed away, and now his son and grandsons continue his craft. I also have other suppliers in San Miguel. I also have one from India, Naseem. I also get some gemstones from India. Those three are my main suppliers. Now I'm here in Montreal and I am finding new ones because I prefer to work with the stones that are close to me in Canada. I also have a lot of gemstones in the United States. Sharon: Do you have a favorite stone? Gabriela: Yes, I have one. I don't know if you know this gemstone. The name of this gemstone is cotton candy agate. This particular gemstone is from Mexico. I love the color of this gemstone because it reminds me of a cherry blossom. It's a very soft pastel pink. That is my favorite gemstone, but I love all types of jaspers. I love gemstones with a lot of personality and different patterns and different colors. Actually, the first one that I mentioned, the cotton candy agate, most of my first designs and pieces were with this gemstone. I created a collection with this one. Sharon: You use a lot of silver. Have you ever used a different metal? Gabriela: No. All my pieces are made with silver until last week, because I finished a ring and I incorporated copper. But that's the only piece that I incorporated copper. I'm just experimenting to see how it looks, how I work with this new material, because I hadn’t worked with copper before. Mainly all the pieces that you see on my webpage are with silver, 10.50 silver. Sharon: Going back to the cotton candy stone, the pale pink stone, tell us about working with something like that. Is it easier to work with? Gabriela: That particular gemstone is easy to work with. The only difficult thing is that it's not easy to find. It’s from Mexico, but it's not easy to find that particular gemstone. That's why I have a few gemstones and that particular agate, but I'm saving them for the future because I haven’t found more of this gemstone. Sharon: Do you get other stones or other pink stones? Is Mexico the only place that you can find them? Can you find them in the United States or in Canada also? Gabriela: Yes, you can find it in the United States, but they are from Mexico. There are suppliers that bought this particular item from Mexico. But yes, you can find it in the United States on Etsy or Facebook, Instagram, different suppliers. But this particular gemstone is from Mexico and that's it. You're not going to find it anywhere else. Sharon: Wow. So, they sell it to people in the States here. You're in Canada right now. Do you have any idea where you'll settle with your jewelry? Will you continue to work in Canada or move again? Gabriela: Right now, I’m in Canada because my husband is studying a master’s here. Our idea or the main objective is to stay here in Canada. We love this city, Montreal. We have been here every year since four years ago. We love the culture, we love the weather, we love all the activities that are here. The main thing that we love here is that we can see the difference between seasons. In Mexico, it's not that easy to see the difference between seasons. Mexico has very good weather. I'm not saying that. It’s just that you can’t differentiate between seasons, because mainly the entire year is the same temperature. It doesn't change a lot. But yeah, we want to stay here. We'll see. I hope we can stay here. Sharon: As the seasons change the way you mentioned it, do they influence the stones? Do you make different kinds of jewelry in winter than in summer? Gabriela: Yes, for sure. Right now, I haven't created new collections here because I just recently found a studio to work. I found it last October. I started to create collections a year ago when I was in Mexico, and I created three because of the change of seasons. Depending on the seasons, I try to look for particular colors of the gemstones. Maybe because it's summer, I'm looking for more vibrant colors. In autumn it’s more earth colors. Also, when it's winter in Mexico, I try to make smaller earrings instead of bigger because during winter you are wearing scarves. In my mind it’s easier to wear smaller ones than big ones during winter. Sharon: How do you introduce yourself? Do you introduce yourself as a jewelry designer? How do you describe yourself? Gabriela: I always introduce myself as a jewelry maker, even though I also think I'm a jewelry designer. I think they go hand in hand. I think recently, in the last year and a half, I felt comfortable introducing myself as a jewelry designer. Sharon: Jewelry designer, okay. What do you consider a collection? Is it the colors? Is it a number of pieces? What is a collection made of? Gabriela: The collection that I created last year was my first one. So, for me, collection was a seasonal collection. I try to focus on the seasonal relevance at that particular time. I was inspired by the things during that particular season. For example, the one I created during summer was the candy collection. I created a collection of earrings resembling candies because they had vibrant colors, big statement earrings. Sharon: When do you make those? It must be hard in winter to be thinking about summer jewelry, or in summer to be thinking about winter jewelry. That's when you're making the collection, right? Not in the season, but before the season. Gabriela: Yeah, a little bit before. Just a little bit. I will admit that I’m not super organized. Sometimes I start making the rings or the collections just a couple of weeks before, so I’m seeing them in the middle of the season. Sharon: So, it's right before. What are you designing now? What colors are you thinking about now as spring is going into summer? I don't know how it is in Montreal, but here it's really spring. If it started snowing, would you think of different colors? If you're already working on the spring collection and suddenly it starts snowing, for instance. Gabriela: I'm a little bit behind, actually. I haven't finished the series of rings that I mentioned before, and for those rings the concept is winter. Right now I’m working with those. But at the same time in Mexico, Samantha is working on a collection for the web page with pieces that can be replicated. She's working with bold colors because spring is coming. We're working on new designs. Actually, this week, she is making some prototypes that I just made. I need to see them and approve them in order to continue with the real production for these pieces. But they're going to be with bold colors. We are both working with glass and some jaspers, and also with carbon quartz. Sharon: This is for production, but what were you describing by saying that you don't have a lot of inventory? That it’s one of a kind? Gabriela: Well, we don't have a lot of inventory. The pieces that you see on our website are the pieces that we have in stock, and that's it. But those pieces that are not part of the one of a kind section, we can replicate them. The ones you are seeing on our web page are the ones we have available at the moment. If a client buys this piece right now, I need to make a new one in order to sell this new piece. Sharon: Do you ever reject a prototype and say, “I decided I don't want green. I want red in it”? You reject the prototype, you’re saying yes. Gabriela: Yeah. If I don't like it, yes, of course. I just reject it and try again. I iterate a lot until I find the right combination, the right size, the right color, everything. Sharon: What do you mean by slow made? I've heard the term, but how do you define it? Gabriela: For me, slow made is quality over quantity. It's attention to detail. Pieces are made to order, as I mentioned before. We don’t carry excessive inventory. We take our time to create each piece and to see that every piece is made at the right quality. Everything needs to be on point. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 222 Part 2: How Terhi Tolvanen Captures Nature in Her Jewelry
05/03/2024
Episode 222 Part 2: How Terhi Tolvanen Captures Nature in Her Jewelry
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Terhi’s work changed as she moved from Finland to Amsterdam to France How the weather influenced Terhi’s recent exhibition at Ornamentum Gallery How jewelry can help us explore the relationship between man and nature Why Terhi creates her work on a mannequin, and how she lets materials tell her what they want to be Why love is the most important thing an artist can put in their work About Terhi Tolvanen Currently based in the French countryside, Terhi Tolvanen was born in Helsinki, Finland (1968). Following studies at the Lahti Design Institute, Finland, and the Gerrit Rietveld Academy, NL, Tolvanen earned a Master’s Degree in Jewelry at the Sandberg Institute, Amsterdam, NL. Tolvanen’s works can be found in numerous distinguished private and public collections worldwide, including the Swiss National Museum, the Victoria & Albert Museum (London, UK) the Dallas Museum of Art (TX- USA) among others. Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com: Additional Resources Transcript: Terhi Tolvanen’s jewelry isn’t made of gold or diamonds, but in its own way, it’s just as precious. The Finnish jeweler uses natural materials like wood, raw minerals and shells to create jewelry that not only looks beautiful, but challenges viewers to reflect on the world around them. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how her daily walks shape her work; how living in Amsterdam and rural France have changed her jewelry over the years; and her advice for emerging artists. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. We're so glad you're here today. I'd never heard of our guest, Terhi Tolvanen, before. I don't know how I missed her jewelry because I like large, statement-type pieces, and that's what many of Terhi's pieces are. I was really taken with them. Welcome back. So, it’s finding things in nature that you put together in what you call a sculpture. Terhi: Yeah, sculpture, jewelry. I do really make jewelry, but it's also all these wonderful materials that I manage to find. I'm also talking about, for example, light and movement. How do the trees, for example, move in the wind? This can be a big inspiration. Or an early summer rain, which gives a certain kind of light and color to things. I also have very many pieces where I'm talking about the metamorphosis of a flower, opening and being in full flower and then in the end fading away. The circle of life. I'm very fond of moss also, which I find very beautiful. It also talks about time because moss is growing very slowly, and it takes over places that have not been really taken care of. What is taken care of? There are cultures, like in Japan, where they think moss is very important and beautiful. They pour sour milk over stone so that moss would grow better. Whereas in Europe the moss is taken away. They have pieces where, for example, it's a moss collection. I made my own moss, or I make my own mushrooms, which are also very fascinating. Sharon: So, nature is where you get most of your inspiration from. From the things around you that other people might overlook? Terhi: Yes, it's that. Yes, I think so. The starting point is a little bit in this experience that I had when I moved to Amsterdam. In Finland, it's so normal for everybody to have nature around, and it's so very normal to go to the forest and to be able to pick berries and mushrooms and walk around. When I moved to Amsterdam, I realized that this is not at all the case over there. Everything is planted. Nothing is wild. Even the forest is planted, and you should not touch anything. So, the nature experience is totally, totally different. This was not really shocking to me, but I found it very interesting at the time. I think it’s really a human need to be in touch with nature, and in a city situation, it starts on the balconies. The very first pieces I made after school were about flowerpots and balconies where people are creating their own nature spaces in a mini way. I found that very interesting. When one has a little bit more space, this becomes a garden, and there are all different kinds of gardens, very well taken care of or very wild gardens. I'm also very fond of all different garden wood. The best material for me is, for example, this curly hazelnut that has been pruned for many years, which makes it curl even more. This human interaction has been there already long before I get to this material in my hands. There are all kinds of fascinating situations with these thoughts. Sharon: Are people surprised when they look at your work, like, “What is this? This isn't jewelry. There’s no diamonds or gold.” What is their reaction? Terhi: Yeah, sometimes. I don't have so many new people around that I get to hear this kind of remark. But yeah, sometimes it happens like, “Really? It's very big and it must be very heavy.” They find it very strange that branches can make a necklace. I have the feeling that the big question is “But where is the value?” It’s easier to see the value when it's precious metal and shiny stones. Sharon: How do you introduce yourself to people who don't know you? If people ask what you do, what do you tell them? Terhi: I say I'm a jewelry artist, and then I have to explain. I say I’m a jewelry artist making contemporary jewelry because there are so many different types of jewelry. I have to explain that I'm selling my work through galleries and that there are collectors and museums buying, like it was any other art discipline like painting or sculpture. This explains the best, I think, the way I do work. Otherwise, a remark I get very often is, “The Christmas market is very nice in that little town. Maybe this would be interesting for you.” Then I have to explain that I don't make pieces in series. My pieces are always unique pieces. I make some variations, but I never really copy a piece. There are some exceptions to the rule, but I haven't done it many times. Sharon: You’re in many prestigious museums around the world. That must give you a lot of credibility when you're talking to people. Terhi: Yes, of course. This is really fantastic, that my work is valued. It's very good for motivation, and, of course, it gives status. It's fantastic to be appreciated in my work. It's quite important. I would say it's very important for me, yes. Sharon: It keeps you going. The first time a museum wanted to collect your work, did they come to you? Did they see it at a show? What happened? Terhi: The museums and collectors are buying from the galleries, so I am not in direct contact with them. With the years, I have gotten to meet some of my collectors. I have quite a few in the U.S., and this is very far away. So, there are some I have never met in person. I would say I’ve met more in Europe at the openings. It's very nice and important to be there for my own openings and especially to meet people. Sharon: Were you excited or inspired when you heard the museum bought your first piece or your second piece? Did it keep you going? Terhi: Yes, absolutely. Yes. I have quite a good list now. I have a couple of museums I would like to have my pieces also, so I still have work to do. Sharon: You mentioned that you're very busy in the studio right now. What are you working on? Terhi: Yes, I'm always very busy. The whole year is a rhythm with solo exhibitions. For quite some years now, there’s a solo exhibition in one of my galleries every year. Then I have galleries that go regularly to fairs, and I try to have some new pieces for them. Right now, I'm finishing pieces for the Pearl Exhibition at Noel Guyomarc'h in Montreal. The Pearl Exhibition is touring now in several galleries, and then each gallery is asking other artists to participate. Noel asked me, among others. Then I'm also preparing some pieces for an art fair in Amsterdam. I'm also almost done with a customer order from Ornamentum Gallery. Sharon: Would you say the market for jewelry is growing in France, or is it remaining stable? Terhi: Well, it's quite stable, I would say, for quite some time now, which means in practice that I can't really work with any new galleries on a steady basis. I do participate in group exhibitions, of course, but I have four galleries now that I work with, and they wait all the time for new pieces. So, I'm full in work all the time. Sharon: That’s a nice position to be in. At what point do the stones talk to you to say, “I'm going to be a necklace,” or I should be a ring or a bracelet”? Terhi: Yeah, absolutely the materials talk to me. I'm a very materialistic maker in that sense. The materials are extremely important for me. This was already the case from the beginning. I'm only getting better in it, I think, and a little bit quicker. The way it goes is that I often let the wood—the branches that have certain shapes, I let them decide what shape the necklace would be. They tell me how they would be. There is a way in this puzzle work that when they are arranged in the best way, they also talk about movement or waves or so on. The same thing with stones. For example, when I have a mineral, I carefully choose which side of this mineral I show, which is the front side, because there are differences. The back side is maybe not so nice. The color is maybe better from a certain angle. A lot also decides where I need to place the stones. For example, labradorite is very dependent on the light falling on the stone. When it is looked at from a certain direction, it gives this very strong blue and green light in the stone. This is why I turn them around. Because jewelry pieces are three dimensional when they’re worn, I'm making my pieces on the mannequin. When I'm moving around my mannequin, I’m taking care that the stones are having light from all sides of the piece. It cannot be only from the front because a jewelry piece is never looked at only from the front. I let the material decide a lot. With time I have learned to see. I'm really looking for certain qualities in the material. There are certain stones that absolutely need to be a ring because the stone is the most beautiful or spectacular or gives its best when it’s placed on the hand, where one can look at it and turn it around a little bit. Sharon: Now, you've been doing this for about 20 years at least. What would you say to people who are just starting out? What would you tell emerging artists? Terhi: I would tell them that when making, they have to give all the love they have to their work. This means that one needs to try to do his or her best every time because one cannot cheat on that. When you put all your soul and all the love you have into your piece, then it becomes a good piece. Love means it’s a good work because all artists are responsible for the quality of their work. In today's world, where there are so many objects, so many things that we don't need, what justifies the fact that art needs to exist? We have to do our best to make only really good pieces. This is possible when you give a lot of love. How do I know if my piece is ready and good? I, myself, find the piece really having a presence. Sharon: So, that's what emerging artists or all artists should work towards. Terhi: Yes, I think this is very important. With time, when they manage to concentrate on this question, at the same time, the technical skills and everything around it will develop as well. Sharon: Well, thank you very much for talking with us today, Terhi. I hope we have a chance to do it again in the future. Terhi: Thank you so much, Sharon, for having me. It was great. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 222 Part 1: How Terhi Tolvanen Captures Nature in Her Jewelry
05/01/2024
Episode 222 Part 1: How Terhi Tolvanen Captures Nature in Her Jewelry
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Terhi’s work changed as she moved from Finland to Amsterdam to France How the weather influenced Terhi’s recent exhibition at Ornamentum Gallery How jewelry can help us explore the relationship between man and nature Why Terhi creates her work on a mannequin, and how she lets materials tell her what they want to be Why love is the most important thing an artist can put in their work About Terhi Tolvanen Currently based in the French countryside, Terhi Tolvanen was born in Helsinki, Finland (1968). Following studies at the Lahti Design Institute, Finland, and the Gerrit Rietveld Academy, NL, Tolvanen earned a Master’s Degree in Jewelry at the Sandberg Institute, Amsterdam, NL. Tolvanen’s works can be found in numerous distinguished private and public collections worldwide, including the Swiss National Museum, the Victoria & Albert Museum (London, UK) the Dallas Museum of Art (TX- USA) among others. Photos available on TheJewelryJourney.com: Additional Resources Transcript: Terhi Tolvanen’s jewelry isn’t made of gold or diamonds, but in its own way, it’s just as precious. The Finnish jeweler uses natural materials like wood, raw minerals and shells to create jewelry that not only looks beautiful, but challenges viewers to reflect on the world around them. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how her daily walks shape her work; how living in Amsterdam and rural France have changed her jewelry over the years; and her advice for emerging artists. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. We're so glad you're here today. I'd never heard of our guest, Terhi Tolvanen, before. I'll let her pronounce the name in Finnish. I don't know how I missed her jewelry because I like large, statement-type pieces, and that's what many of Terhi's pieces are. I was really taken with them. She uses a lot of materials found in nature, integrated with stones that we might see in other jewelry. Her work can be found in many prestigious museums around the world. She herself has studied in several countries, growing and perfecting her work. Today, we will learn a lot about Terhi and the inspiration and ideas you will find all around her. Welcome to the podcast, Terhi. Terhi: Thank you so much, Sharon, for inviting me. It's great to be talking with you. Sharon: I'm so glad that we have the chance to talk. Can you tell us why you moved from Finland to Amsterdam to France? Can you tell us how the materials varied in each area? Terhi: I moved away from Finland. Originally, I was supposed to be going away for only one year, but after technical school, I was missing quite a lot to learn more about the reasons why to make things. At the time in Finland, there was no possibility to continue. That's why I started looking elsewhere. I ended up then studying in Rietveld Academy in Amsterdam, in the Netherlands, and I totally fell in love with the school. The one year I was supposed to stay became six years. After four years, I also did a master course over there, and after school I stayed because it was great. I fell in love with jewelry. There were galleries, there were events, there were colleagues, there were things happening. During the school years, I made a lot of friends, and I found a place to stay and all that. Now for about 10 years, I've been in France. I moved to France because of love. I fell in love. Sharon: Love, okay. And did you find materials different in each area? Terhi: The materials, yeah, of course. Moving to France has changed the accessibility to my materials totally, because I moved to the countryside from the city. This meant that I was able to use more and more branches that I could collect and find a little bit everywhere. And I’ve continued what I started doing already in the Netherlands for finding all my minerals and stones. I would go to mineral fairs. Now that I'm in France, I go to Paris. Sharon: Are there are a lot of materials in Paris? Do you find things to work with? Terhi: There is a quite good mineral fair once a year, in the beginning of December. I almost always have to wait one year if I want to have something or find the same thing again or find new material. When I do that, I have to count that I have enough for working for one year. I buy a lot and I don't always use everything. Sometimes it can even take up to five years before I really know what I want to do with certain minerals, but this is always very exciting for me. I'm a very big fan of minerals and stones in any shape and color and format. I have used a lot of rough minerals that I would cut just a little bit so that the dimensions would fit on a piece. For about three or four years, I've also been buying some cut stones. When I still lived in Amsterdam, I used to work with a stone cutter who would cut stones especially for me, and that was a very good cooperation. Since then, he has stopped working a little bit in that way. But he would save me things the normal goldsmiths wouldn't want to buy. He learned very quickly that was interesting for me. Mainly it was things that were a little bit different, a little bit less perfect than a traditional goldsmith would want to use. Sharon: How long have you been a maker? Did you choose it later or did you choose it when you were young? Terhi: I have been a maker since my graduation from the Sandberg Instituut. The master course in Amsterdam is called Sandberg Instituut. I graduated from there in 1999, and I had my first solo show in 2000. Of course, it took a little time to get going. But now it's 24 years ago. It’s long. Sharon: And you knew when you graduated that you wanted to be a maker or a jeweler. That's what you wanted to do professionally. Terhi: Yes. I was asking this question a lot while studying. When I started studying in Amsterdam, I was absolutely convinced that I don't want to be an artist and I don't want to make jewelry. But I thought, “Never mind. I will be able to learn a lot of important things anyway at school.” This meant that during a lot of school years, I was trying all kinds of different things. I was drawing a lot, I was making objects, I was working a lot with textiles, sort of half- clothes, half-sculpture pieces. And then at one moment towards the end of the master course, when it really became a reality that soon I will have to get out of the school and go into the real world, I really decided, “Okay, I will make jewelry,” because my conclusion, after all these school years, was that that's the thing I can do the best. So, I really chose it. Also, because of the situation at the time in the Netherlands, it was possible to ask for working grants for jewelry arts. I had some very good school friends that were very much encouraging me to take the jewelry direction. So, yes, it was a very conscious decision at the time, and I have not regretted it. Sharon: It was long periods when you were in a country. You said you were in Amsterdam for six years. Did you teach? I don't know, maybe I have that wrong. Terhi: No, not there. I was there for school for six years altogether. Also, I stayed for the reason that it was cheaper to work at school than rent a studio. When I graduated from the Instituut, I stayed in Amsterdam because it was, work wise, very exciting to stay there. I had a job on the site. Then later I got a working grant. I had a nice studio, so I stayed in Amsterdam until 2013 when I moved to France. Sharon: I have to ask if you knew the languages before you came to each country. Well, English in Amsterdam works. What languages do you speak? Terhi: I'm multilingual. in Amsterdam I decided that I would like to learn Dutch because I thought it is very important for the quality of life. I managed to learn Dutch, so I speak Dutch quite fluently. At school it was a lot in English, of course. I speak Finnish, Dutch, English, and now in France, people don't speak so much English, so I really had to learn French. I had already studied French during all my school time in Finland, so I had a base for that, but I couldn't speak it so well. Now, of course, with all the years, I have learned to speak French. I'm teaching now in France at ENSAD Limoges, the École Nationale Supérieure d'Art et de Design, which is one of the national art schools. I'm teaching in French. Sharon: As you learned each language, did your works change? Did it make it easier to work or harder? Did you see a change in your work? Terhi: Well, living abroad, it's often lost in translation, of course. To know a language very well, you need to also understand the mentality and the culture of each country. I don't know if it's so much the language that's influencing the work. It's more the physical fact being in a certain place with certain surroundings. Of course, for me nature is very important. It's a richness, the language is. Definitely, yes. Sharon: Your most recent exhibition, I don't know if you had another one since then, but last summer you were at Ornamentum Gallery. Your work was shown at Ornamentum Gallery, which is in Massachusetts, I think. Terhi: It’s in Hudson, New York. Sharon: Okay. I couldn't remember. Hudson, New York. The exhibit was called Moderate to Southwest Winds. What does that mean in jewelry? What did you think it meant? Terhi: I chose the title. It's a weather forecast. It's taken out of a weather forecast. I chose that because while working for that show, I realized that what is really making the rhythm of my work and my thinking is the weather. I go out every morning for a walk, and this is a very important moment for me depending on the face in the work. Either I try to just empty my mind and observe things in nature. I look at colors and light and shapes and textures. Or, when I'm a little bit further in the work, then the moment of walking is very nice for finding solutions, so I'm working in my head. And, of course, what is then very important is the weather. If it's nice weather, if the sun is shining, if it's raining, if it's the spring or the winter. In wintertime, there is not so much light, so I have to wait for the light to be able to go out. This is totally deciding the rhythm of my day. As I also wrote at the time for the text of the exhibition, all my life I've been following the weather forecast. I check every morning what kind of weather it's going to be. I plan my day. If it's raining in the morning, I will go and do my walk in the afternoon and so on. This is something that I learned from my grandfather in Finland who had a little summer cottage on a little island. It's important to know what kind of weather it is, if it was safe to take the boat to the mainland or not. This is a kind of habit. It's sort of a daily ritual for me. I was also thinking that as the weather is the factor that is so important, I can also say that what was a little bit different for this exhibition was that the theme was a little bit more general. I let myself have the freedom of not deciding so tightly the theme that I'm working on. During COVID, I had put aside all kinds of different plans, all kinds of pieces that I wanted to make but I was not able to make at the time. I also had some materials that they had put on the site especially for the show at Ornamentum. I decided to make the show in that way, that I will make all these pieces that were waiting to be made. I found that, like the weather, the circumstances of the situation led to that conclusion somewhat and what I could say. Sharon: How did COVID affect you and your work? Terhi: I found it a very, very difficult time. I didn't stop working totally, but I was not able to really make my big pieces. It was quite military like, I would say. How to explain? The French system was very strict. To go out, you had to sign a paper and you had to tell what you were going to do, and you had one hour to do that. If you would not be back at home on time, then you would get fined. There was a very efficient fear campaign on television and so on. It felt very uncertain, and I'm sure this was the case for everybody. It took away a lot of the safe feeling which is necessary to be able to really dive into a big work. In a way, the time was cut in small moments when it was possible to create. Ever since I started working, I think the COVID year was really the first year that I didn't have so much production. Sharon: Were you allowed to go out to your studio? Is your studio in your home or is it separate? Terhi: At the time, I had a studio in a little town close to home. When they announced that the lockdown is going to come, I moved the most important things from my studio to my home so then I didn't have to go. This would have been possible. I could have signed the paper and said, “I’m going to my work,” but I felt better working at home. Also, being in the countryside, it was more free to go out. It was an isolated house at the time. I have moved since, but it was much easier to be there than in a city situation. I'm glad I did it. I moved my goldsmithing bench and my main tools and my main materials. Sharon: You moved them home? Terhi: Yeah, I had a little room at home to be able to work. Sharon: What did you want them to learn from the exhibition? Let's say your show at Ornamentum was the first time they were seeing your work or contemporary jewelry. What did you want them to learn by looking at it? Terhi: I'm very concerned about wearability in my work. This gives the scale. For somebody who is not so acquainted with contemporary jewelry, a lot of times people find it very big. I like to say that my work is sculpture. Then one could say that it's wearable sculpture. I'm also, first of all, talking about nature since the beginning. I'm working on the same theme in a way for about 20 years. I never changed because there are always new things. What I want to really put in the front—this is a little bit of a French saying, sorry—is that nature is very precious, and there are a lot of very beautiful things to see. How to put it very simply? I just want to show that it's very special. There are a lot of little things you can see when one walks in the forest. It’s worthwhile to really look. This sounds a little bit like no explanation because there are so many factors. But I'm talking about a dialog between man and nature. I'm talking about respect towards nature. I'm talking about this kind of eagerness to control nature, and the nature is fighting back so this dialog is never ending. Of course, today this is a topic that is more actual than ever. There are so many wonderful things. It's amazing, I think. I mean, just the mineral world. It's amazing what nature can make. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 221 Part 2: Suzanne Martinez’s Tips for Finding the Best Quality Antique Jewelry
04/19/2024
Episode 221 Part 2: Suzanne Martinez’s Tips for Finding the Best Quality Antique Jewelry
What you’ll learn in this episode: How to use Antique Jewelry University to identify maker’s marks and find out when your jewelry was made. Why access to more (and better) information has made interest in antique jewelry explode. What characteristics Suzanne looks for when evaluating antique jewelry. Why buyers should beware of lab-grown diamonds in vintage jewelry. Why modern diamonds and manufacturing techniques can’t compare to the materials and skills used by jewelers in the past. About Suzanne Martinez Suzanne Martinez is the co-owner of Lang Antiques, a San Francisco-based shop that offers the largest collection of fine vintage engagement rings and antique jewels to be found under one roof. She is a highly credentialed senior gemologist, jewelry appraiser, jewelry historian and the curator for Lang’s collection. She actively buys from sellers all over the world. Suzanne is also the founder of Lang’s Antique Jewelry University. Suzanne started collecting rocks and minerals as a child, and by the time she was 13 knew that the jewelry world was her passion. For fun she makes enameled jewelry and studies natural history and Latin American cultural anthropology. Images courtesy of Lang Antique & Estate Jewelry available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional resources: Lang Antique and Estate Jewelry is the prime destination for vintage jewelry lovers, but you don’t have to be in San Francisco to take advantage of the store’s services. Lang ships jewelry globally and offers Antique Jewelry University, a completely free online guide to maker’s marks and jewelry history. Jewelry historian and Lang co-owner Suzanne Martinez joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Lang curates its huge collection of antique engagement rings; the history of Antique Jewelry University; and what she looks for when evaluating an antique piece. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, we're talking with Suzanne Martinez of Lang Antiques in San Francisco. Welcome back. Do you manufacture yourselves? Does Lang manufacture? Suzanne: We have what we call our Lange line. Sometimes a piece of jewelry will come in and it's worn out. It doesn't have another livelihood, so we can't guarantee it to a customer. I'm talking about a ring in particular. We have, probably for more than 20 years, been making hand-fabricated rings that are in the style of or influenced by a real ring design. They're very similar to the older pieces, and we hand fabricate them. In the last few years, we've had a greater demand. People don't want to pay for the cost of having a ring hand fabricated like the originals. It's very expensive when a mounting costs more than the diamond you're setting in it, and that's not unusual. So, we have done some work with partners that do CAD that have helped us create our designs in CAD, but we do very little of that. 90% of what we do, if we're going to take an old stone and remake a ring out of it, is hand fabricated. We try and stick to the tenets of the old jewelry that we sell. Sharon: Do people come in and say, “Can you repolish this stone?” Maybe they have an old ring, a vintage ring, and the stone is beat up but they want it repolished. Suzanne: That's a really good question. The stones that get beat up are things that are not a diamond. You have to be pretty hard on a diamond to beat it up or to chip it. But sapphires, if they've been worn for 15, 20 years even, they're going to have some abrasions on them. When we buy a piece of jewelry, that’s one of the things we do. We will remove those stones and repolish them before we resell them. But as far as a customer coming in with their own personal collection, we don't have an in-house lapidary, so we don't do that. There are people that specialize in and help people refurbish like that, but it's not something we offer because we don't do it in-house. Sharon: Was your business affected by COVID? Suzanne: It was actually positively affected. I think people had more time. We know they had more time at home, and I think people did a lot more screen time. We had a lot more visitors to our website, and people got very excited about antique jewelry, especially colored stones and things they could wear on a Zoom call so people could see their jewelry, like a pair of earrings or a pendant. Business increased because of that, which was very good. I think the awareness grew. People found out about antique jewelry more. Look at Instagram. Instagram is different than it was three years ago, but there were a lot of people spending a lot of time on Instagram and other social media and just watching, because it's eye candy. People come to our website for the same reason. Who doesn't like to look at beautiful jewelry? I just told this story to a customer that came in yesterday. It just came to mind. We used to keep our jewelry in our window. We used to have probably a thousand pieces in the window, tons of jewelry just packed in. I'd watch people walk by. They'd stop in the window, and then they'd walk away with a big smile on their face because jewelry makes people happy. It's beautiful. I think people gained an appreciation during that time period. Sharon: Did you see an increase in sales because people didn't have things to spend the money on? Suzanne: Well, they weren't traveling. They weren't going out to eat, so they were buying jewelry. We were lucky because part of our business is an e-commerce business, and it's something we've done for a long time. I think some of the jewelers that didn't have that ability to interact with their clients in the same way probably didn't gain from it. But it was good for our business. Sharon: When you had a thousand pieces or a lot of jewelry in the window, did you take it out every night? Suzanne: Oh yeah, every single piece. We had our windows designed so they were modular, so you could take a whole tray of jewelry out and put it on carts and take it to our walls to sell it. We made it work because if you had to take out one at a time, that would take you another couple of hours. Sharon: Do you have local people, people in San Francisco or in Northern California, who come to the store just to look at the window or to look and see what's new? Suzanne: It's really interesting, because when people come into our store, they're either going to have an appointment or we're a destination. They know who we are before they come. They might be coming to see what's new. They might be coming because they have a particular piece of jewelry they want to look at, and sometimes it's just part of their trip to San Francisco. They always come to Lang. Sharon: Do you sell things besides rings, or is it all rings or mostly rings? Suzanne: No, I would say rings are probably half of what we sell, colored stone and diamond rings, then all other kinds of jewelry. People wear brooches still, believe it or not. We sell a lot of pins and brooches. You don't see people wearing them as much, but we're bringing that back. We like them. They're beautiful, small forms of art, you know? Sharon: I was intrigued because you used the word collectors. I looked at the store and it was all rings. As I was scrolling through, it seemed like one on every two pages was something that wasn't a ring. Suzanne: Well, you have to filter, just like any website you're on. We have filters set up so that you can choose how you look at different jewelry. If you want to look at rings, if you want to dive in and just look at sapphire rings, if you want to look at Art Deco sapphire rings, you can do all of those things. You can look at all of our jewelry in one page, which is a few thousand pieces that are online. That's kind of an ominous task. So, filtering is a good way to use our website to find what you're looking for, or just to look. Like I said, it's eye candy. Sharon: How often do you get things that might not be a ring that you would put on the website or people come to the store to see? Suzanne: If you watch our What's New page, you'll see that we sell more things and post more things that are not rings. Rings are maybe 30 to 40% of what we put on our website. There are pendants, earrings, brooches, necklaces, a little bit of everything. Sharon: In reading the description of your store, that it’s world renowned, it seems like you have everything related to vintage engagement rings or vintage rings. Suzanne: That is what we're known for. We have over 800 diamond rings. That's a large collection of vintage diamond rings. We've curated our collection very carefully over the years. People buy from Lang because all of our rings have been fully restored. For example, the prongs are not worn down anymore. We will replace and put new prongs on the ring. If the diamond has a small chip, we remove the diamond and we'll repair the chip before we put it back in. All of our diamonds of one carat or larger, we send to the GIA for a lab report. We do a lot of work to make sure that the ring we're selling has all the necessary information for a customer to make a decision on whether they want to buy it. When you look at an antique diamond, it has a different kind of beauty than a modern round brilliant. Most antique diamonds have a little bit of color to them. They are a J or a K color very commonly, and you have to kind of throw out the standard of the modern round brilliant-cut because you can't compare them. An old diamond has a different way of reacting with light. It breaks the light up into spectral colors more. It's just a playful, beautiful diamond, so it doesn't look like every other round brilliant-cut diamond. Each one is hand cut and unique. To me, that's a starting point of what makes an antique ring so special. Then you get the way that the ring is manufactured. They're hand fabricated, and die striking is a very high-quality way of making a ring. It started because platinum was an expensive metal in the past. Now its price per ounce is less than gold. It's still harder to work in, but it was always the most expensive metal. It was always 10 times the cost of gold. Because of this, up until 1920, there were no white metals other than silver. White gold hadn't been patented. It was patented probably in 1918, 1919, but it didn't get into manufacturing techniques until 1920. If you see somebody that says it's a Victorian piece of jewelry and it's white gold, that is the wrong description. There is no way. There was no white gold manufacturing in the 19th century. 1920 is the demarcating line. After that, they were able to offer white metal jewelry, which was popular in Art Deco, black and white jewelry. This could be offered to people because they were die striking white gold instead of hand fabricating platinum. It still was a high-quality product, but they were using the less expensive white gold versus the platinum. It also justified using a quarter carat diamond, whereas to hand fabricate a platinum ring with a quarter carat, you don't see that. Well, of what survived. That would be a rarity, to see something under a half carat. Sharon: Do you have to explain this to a couple that comes in looking for a ring with a modern diamond that was a third of the price or half the price? Suzanne: Usually, people that are already interested in vintage and antique, older rings, they're coming for a different reason. They've already decided this is what they want. They're not saying, “Well, why shouldn't I buy a round brilliant-cut diamond?” But we answer all their questions, and not everybody needs to do a deep dive. If you're someone who has no background in the jewelry business, to tell them about 1920 and die striking and all that, that may be a little too much information for them. We have it and we're there to give it to them, but we let the customer guide their own journey and ask the questions. We find it's a lot easier for them to manage. Does that make sense? Sharon: Yeah. Suzanne: And just to clarify another thing, the man doesn't come in and buy the ring that often. The man and the woman come in together. It's very common for that. And we have women coming in together and men coming in together. We have all kinds of couples that are buying antique and vintage jewelry. Sharon: I know how detailed it can be to look at a vintage and everything you're talking about. I can see myself saying, “Enough already. That's all I need to know.” So, you're a jewelry historian. The Antique Jewelry University was already somewhat started by Christie Romero, but what motivated you to continue to develop it into such an in-depth resource? Suzanne: Something that I have always done for myself personally, for my staff, with the GIA alumni, it's all continuing education. Whenever I go to the Tucson Gem and Mineral Show, I go to as many educational presentations as possible. I've been involved with the GIA Alumni for over 30 years. We bring speakers to our local chapter and continue their education and elevate people so they know more. There are so many topics as far as jewelry is concerned that it's just fascinating. You have gem cutters, you have people that manufacture, you have jewelers. What's your design process? There are so many ways to learn. We have miners that come and speak to us and talk about their journey into the earth and how they extract certain kinds of gems. That's just barely scratching the surface. Continuing education is so important to me personally. In order for me to buy jewelry and understand it, I had to learn. How is anyone else going to understand my process so they are confident to buy from Lang? It's all part and parcel. It's all education. Someone comes in and, like you said, we do educate them to the degree that they want to be educated. All this information is free. Antique Jewelry University, we've never charged for it. We have more than one full-time staff person working on AJU every day. It's something that we do to give back to our community. It’s very important to me. Sharon: How do you promote it? How do you let people know about it? Jewelry organizations I’ve been in, we know about it, but how do you let the larger world know it's available? Suzanne: It's kind of an organic process. We share it with our customers in every way we can. I usually speak at least once a year. I'll speak somewhere, or I will go to a conference and set up a table. My partner in doing this is Starla Turner. We have a table, we'll bring different rings, we'll have a card on each ring and say, “Here's a loupe. Look at it, and this is what you're going to look for.” Then we have Antique Jewelry University running on a computer, and we have a big poster. We want people to know about it, but most of the people that use it are in the trade. How do you educate somebody as to what they are buying? Is it authentic? That is a hard thing to do with the public because they don't have the basic knowledge to start with. So, Antique Jewelry University has many levels. You could be a novice and you just want to come in and find out when a piece was made. My grandmother gave me a locket. When do you think that locket was made? There's a place for you to find out that information. Then if you want to dive a little deeper, you can. What's the history of lockets? Or someone who is a historian themselves, they might want to add to the knowledge they have, or share with us the knowledge they have to help us create a deeper knowledge base on a particular topic. Think of it as tiered information. We have people come to us, whether they’re shopping on our website, or they've found out about us through Instagram or Facebook or Pinterest and they want to find out more information, they go to Antique Jewelry University. Sharon: Could I come to your store and have your staff look at a piece of jewelry and tell me what they think it is? Suzanne: Absolutely. That's half the fun of coming to Lang. You get to really look at these pieces. It's kind of like a museum. You get to look at pieces and they’re for sale. You can touch them. You can have someone tell you about them. It's fun. It's really fun. Sharon: Why did you continue it after Christie passed away? Suzanne: Christie just did the timeline. That's what she started. I did the glossary of terms, and she gifted that to us before she died. We included that. I had already started the glossary. I met Christie. The two of us became friends. I call her one of my people. This is why you go to jewelry shows. This is why you go to gem shows. These are your people that understand and have the same passion that you do. She was very passionate. I was really grateful that she was in my life and that we had this part of our journey together. Sharon: And you just continued adding to it when she wasn't available to do it. Suzanne: Yeah. Christie passed about 20 years ago. We've been adding content to Antique Jewelry University since the day we started. I think it launched in 2020ish. That’s when we launched the website. Sharon: Did you ever think it would be such a resource or so big? Suzanne: Oh, no. It just kind of unfolded. At first it was just, how do you share a library? Let's just add some things so that people have a resource to find out about what they're buying. It was more for our customers. Then we realized there's a huge community out there, whether they're customers or not, and we all benefit from each other. We're a community of people, and everyone that works at Lang is passionate about jewelry. I have gemologists on staff that are just—my friend Starla I was talking about, she's a black belt gemologist. We have Mary, who is an incredible historian that continues to write articles for Antique Jewelry University. The head of our marketing is Nicole Corsini, and she's a gemologist as well as, if you pick up the phone and want to talk to her about a piece of jewelry that you're interested in buying, she will tell you everything about it because she's got the history. She understands marketing and how to present information to you. Everybody has something that they are special in as well as the passion. When you shop at Lang, you're shopping with passionate people that just love what they do. I'm very, very blessed to have all these people. It's a really special organization. Sharon: It seems like it. I didn't know it was so extensive. I knew of Lang and the Antique Jewelry University, but I didn't realize it was so in-depth and extensive. Suzanne, thank you for being here today. We really enjoyed it. We learned a lot. thank you very much. Suzanne: It was my pleasure. Thank you for inviting me. Thank you, Sharon. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 221 Part 1: Suzanne Martinez’s Tips for Finding the Best Quality Antique Jewelry
04/17/2024
Episode 221 Part 1: Suzanne Martinez’s Tips for Finding the Best Quality Antique Jewelry
What you’ll learn in this episode: How to use Antique Jewelry University to identify maker’s marks and find out when your jewelry was made. Why access to more (and better) information has made interest in antique jewelry explode. What characteristics Suzanne looks for when evaluating antique jewelry. Why buyers should beware of lab-grown diamonds in vintage jewelry. Why modern diamonds and manufacturing techniques can’t compare to the materials and skills used by jewelers in the past. About Suzanne Martinez Suzanne Martinez is the co-owner of Lang Antiques, a San Francisco-based shop that offers the largest collection of fine vintage engagement rings and antique jewels to be found under one roof. She is a highly credentialed senior gemologist, jewelry appraiser, jewelry historian and the curator for Lang’s collection. She actively buys from sellers all over the world. Suzanne is also the founder of Lang’s Antique Jewelry University. Suzanne started collecting rocks and minerals as a child, and by the time she was 13 knew that the jewelry world was her passion. For fun she makes enameled jewelry and studies natural history and Latin American cultural anthropology. Images courtesy of Lang Antique & Estate Jewelry available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional resources: Lang Antique and Estate Jewelry is the prime destination for vintage jewelry lovers, but you don’t have to be in San Francisco to take advantage of the store’s services. Lang ships jewelry globally and offers Antique Jewelry University, a completely free online guide to maker’s marks and jewelry history. Jewelry historian and Lang co-owner Suzanne Martinez joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Lang curates its huge collection of antique engagement rings; the history of Antique Jewelry University; and what she looks for when evaluating an antique piece. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, we're talking with Suzanne Martinez of Lang Antiques in San Francisco. I should say that's where the brick and mortar is, but they sell all over the world. Lang Antiques is the country's, if not the world's, largest purveyor of vintage engagement rings. They have an unparalleled collection. Suzanne herself is a jewelry historian, among other things. Lang Antiques has developed an online Antique Jewelry University. Researchers from all over the world use this as a resource to research the history of a piece of jewelry. If you're interested in jewelry, then this makes a very good read. I was looking at it last night again, and I didn't have any piece of jewelry in mind, but it was very interesting to read. I’ve heard Suzanne give a talk at ASJRA, another major jewelry organization, and I’ve heard Suzanne give talks identifying a piece of jewelry, and she goes into tremendous detail. There's no way that you could not look at a piece of jewelry and know what you should be looking for. She'll tell us more about Antique Jewelry University. She'll also tell us how over the years, the store has become world renowned. They have done this by developing an unparalleled collection of jewelry, a reputation for professional expertise, and the longevity of this jewelry store. Suzanne, welcome to the program. Suzanne: I'm happy to be here. Good morning. Sharon: Can you tell us where the Lang in Lang Antiques and Estate Jewelry comes from? Suzanne: We bought the store from Jarmilla Lang in 1991. She was the original owner of the store and a jewelry historian herself way before her time. She had worked in Europe in museums, so she had this breadth of knowledge of decorative arts and jewelry that she brought to San Francisco with her when she opened this store. Sharon: Wow. There aren’t any certificates as a jewelry historian. It’s just knowledge, right? Knowledge and other people saying, “Well, you're a jewelry historian.” I presume you're a gemologist also. You look at so many rings. That’s very interesting. What do you say to those who would never buy a piece of jewelry online because they have to feel it and see it and all of that? Suzanne: Like you said, I am a gemologist and I have been for 45 years. Part of the gemological training is learning how to be forensic with what you’re looking at. Whether it's a gemstone or a piece of jewelry, if you are buying from someone who is knowledgeable enough to understand what they're looking at and share that information with you, that gives a huge degree of trust. I think that's one thing that stands out for Lang. We have a really good understanding of whether it’s a real piece of antique jewelry. How is it made? Why is this design important? Who else made this design popular over time and why? We like to give tidbits of history with every piece we sell. I do call myself a jewelry historian, but by no means do I know everything. I have a library. I haven't read every single book in my library. However, if a piece comes in and I look at it, I know which book to look for to find a reference about it. And there are many jewelry historians that I look up to. It's a community. Sharon: If I see a piece of jewelry on your website and I want to know more about it, or I want to know if I can trust this outfit If I don't know it, do I call you or send you the piece? Can you explain the process? Suzanne: If you want to know more about your own piece of jewelry, that's why we have Antique Jewelry University. It's a place where you can do your own research. We have a huge database of hallmarks because one thing that we probably get the most inquiries about is, “Who made this piece of jewelry? Here's the mark I have.” We refer them to this database we have because it's pretty impressive. Auction houses and appraisers and people all over use that database. Every piece of jewelry we have with a maker's mark, we do our best to research it. It’s not always easy. It’s not always possible. Then we photograph it, and we include it on our website. We try and add a little snippet about who the jeweler was, where they were located, and what years they did their manufacturing. You have to match when a piece was made because some there are false marks, too. If a piece of jewelry is marked 585, which is the percentage for 14-karat gold, it was not made in the 19th century. They didn't mark jewelry like that. There is that forensic bit, too. Hopefully we can help people down that path. We call it the jewelry journey. We do. It’s finding out when their jewelry was made. If they want to find out more about a piece of jewelry we have on our website that they might be interested in buying, we invite inquiries. We talk to them over the phone or by email, whatever they're comfortable with, and try and satisfy all their questions about it and add information as well. Sharon: Did you develop the online Antique Jewelry University yourself? Suzanne: When we started our website, that was back in 1998. We were kind of early adapters. There were no e-commerce platforms at that time, so we developed our own e-commerce platform. By the early 2000s, we were actually selling online. When we launched our website, Antique Jewelry University was a 1000-word glossary. I had been collecting terms. Christie Romero was an incredible jewelry historian. She was here in Southern California, and she taught jewelry history. I don't remember which college it was down there, but she would put on symposiums and bring speakers in. Anyway, incredible woman. She started a glossary of terms and a timeline that, when she passed—unfortunately, she's no longer with us—she gifted to Antique Jewelry University. So, between her information and my glossary of terms, we started Antique Jewelry University and just built upon it. Sharon: Do you continue to build upon it if you see a new term or something you haven't included before? Suzanne: Absolutely. We are always researching. We have a woman who does a lot of our writing. Her name is Mary Borchert, and that is her job, just doing research. We have quite a library of reference books, so everything that we put on Antique Jewelry University is fully referenced. We notate that at the bottom of all our articles as well. We're not just copying it from somewhere else on the internet, which a lot of people do, and a lot of people copy Antique Jewelry University. That can be a compliment, but at the same time, we do all of our own work. Sharon: That's impressive, considering how in-depth it is. Just look at it online. Why do you think that the interest in antique jewelry has grown so much in the past few years? Suzanne: I think there's a lot of transparency. A lot of people are able to access information because of the advent of social media. Just think of all the people that are sharing their own personal information. We are on all the different social media channels as well, and I've seen them grow. If you have an interest in a particular type, like Art Nouveau jewelry, you can find Art Nouveau jewelers that have Instagram or Pinterest and look at beautiful jewelry and learn about it. In the past, when I started as a jeweler, if you didn't have a library, there was no place to go. You went to a museum, and that's where you found your information. Now I think it's a rich time for people to access information. I think we also visually see antique and vintage jewelry worn on the red carpet, at the Met Gala, and we see jewelry that is inspired by antique jewelry. You have famous houses. Everybody knows who Cartier is. You have the most beautiful antique Cartier jewelry, and then you have people that have copied it. That's a big tribute, but you don't always know if it’s a Cartier or it isn’t. That's why it's important who you buy it from. But at the same time, it's permeated everything, antique and vintage styles. Whether it's somebody creating something new with a nod to something vintage or it's truly vintage, I think it's just what people see today. It's massive. Sharon: Your selection of engagement rings is massive. Have you seen that grow in the past few years, the interest and the couples coming in and wanting to see your vintage only? Suzanne: Because that's what we specialize in—we specialize in antique diamonds, so our vintage and antique jewelry is why people come to buy from us. They understand that it’s socially responsible, it’s recycled. That's one of the reasons they buy it. They also want a little bit of history. They want something that no one else has, something very unique. They want something that has a beautiful design and is executed in a way that jewelry isn't executed today. You get a beautiful Edwardian jewel, no one can make a piece of jewelry like that in today's world. They just don't. The jewelry today is made on CAD. Very few jewelers are hand fabricators or can fabricate something that delicate. If you want the real deal, you're going to shop at a store like Lang. Sharon: What happens if you get a call from somebody outside of the U.S. or even on the other side of the U.S. that wants a piece? They want a vintage engagement ring, but they can't come to the store. What do you do? Suzanne: Actually, more of our customers are outside of our store and shop just online because we have jewelry that no one else has. Where are they going to find it if they don't find it from a store like Lang? We have a very large selection. It's not unusual for a customer to narrow their choice down to two or three. Sometimes we just send them all three and they can try them on in the comfort of their own home. They have a period of time which they can return them. We make it work. Sharon: I thought it was really interesting that you had that, the one, two, three. Maybe it's the person who writes about the antique jewelry. The one, two, three of what you look for to know more about a piece of jewelry. That was like first looking at the hallmarks. I looked at it last night but I don’t remember what’s next. Suzanne: For a private individual, when they're trying to identify their own jewelry, style is really important. But for an individual, if you have family history and you know that piece was your grandmother's, at least you have a date within which to start. If you're just out in the world and you identify a piece of jewelry that you love but you don't really know how old it is, that's a little more difficult. How do you know it doesn't match the type of manufacturing techniques that were done when, say, an Art Nouveau piece of jewelry was made, versus something that is made today in the Art Nouveau style? That is something that's a little harder. That's why you need to rely on an appraiser, someone to help you with that. But when I personally look at a piece of jewelry, how I select a piece of jewelry for our store, style is really important. Good design is always good design. Bad design is obvious, and it just doesn't make a great piece of jewelry. The techniques of manufacture have to be right. It has to be in excellent condition. There's a lot of things that I look at that go in the background, that not everybody sees when they look at a piece. They see a beautiful piece of jewelry when they're shopping, but the backstory is it has to be in excellent condition. It has to be correct. Lang is very careful about letting people know when, for example, cufflinks have been out of style for quite some time, and a lot of the cufflinks that were made circa 1900 to 1930 are small. They're very small. They're really too small for men to wear. Men don't wear them, and they're very delicate. What we do is convert them to earrings. We make the most beautiful earrings out of these cufflinks that otherwise would lose their livelihood, and we've been very successful with doing that. But we tell people these were converted from a pair of earrings, whether it's Art Nouveau or an Art Deco cuff link. Those are the kinds of things that if we make a change, we tell people about it. Sharon: If somebody wants to sell jewelry to you or to another place, let's say they take their family collection and show it to you, or they take it out of the safe deposit box and decide they want the jewelry to be out in the world, what do you say? Have you ever turned people away? Suzanne: Absolutely. What if something was made in the last 25 years and its value is gold? It's something that is mass produced and there's lots and lots of them made and it's not in style anymore. It deserves to be recycled into something more beautiful again. In all pieces, it's back to that design, quality, authenticity and condition. Those are the things that I look for. I wish I could say I could buy every single piece that comes through my door, but realistically we have a large collection. Let's say right now I have 30 hardstone cameos. If someone brought me a hardstone cameo today, I would have to make sure that it exceeded my current collection to add it to my collection, or it has to be something that I feel customers are buying right now. The market goes up and down. Retro is a little soft right now. I like it. It's beautiful. The designs are gorgeous, but I'm not adding to our retro collection because we have a pretty extensive retro collection right now. Those are the kinds of things where sometimes I will say no. But usually individual, one-of-a-kind pieces of jewelry, that's what we're looking for. Sharon: Can you recognize if something is one of a kind when it’s presented to you? I know you think about things and what you have, but do you research the piece? Do you look at it under the microscope? Suzanne: Some pieces definitely need to be researched, but most pieces are jewelry where maybe more than one of them has been made. In our diamond ring collection, for example, during the 1920s and 1930s, a lot of those rings were die struck. They were made in a die and many of them were made, but very few survive. In all my years of buying and selling vintage engagement rings and antique engagement rings, maybe I've seen a handful that were the same as one I had already seen. That’s because the piece may be struck on a die, but then its hand pierced, its hand finished. There may be a garland or small milgrain, or it may have small diamonds added to it and this one doesn't have diamonds added to it. Each one has a handprint of a person on it, the work master or the person that does the engraving or the setter. Each one has its own imprint, so they still tend to look one of a kind. But knowing the underlying structure of something is still one of the ways we determine when it was made. You know when you see a die struck ring, that's the period of time within which it was made. Sharon: Do people bring lab-grown diamonds in? I know they're not vintage, but do you ever see lab-grown diamonds? Suzanne: I think the secondary market for lab grown diamonds hasn’t really hit yet because they've only been super popular in the marketplace for three years. That's about it. And their prices have already plummeted on the retail marketplace. It’s not something we would ever buy because they’re not old, but it is something that we have to be careful of, and I think people have to be careful of. I have heard of jewelers that are buying low quality synthetic diamonds. They're buying a round brilliant and they’re recutting it to European standard because they have inclusions and might have some off color, then they're putting them in an old mounting. People that buy scrap end up with lots and lots of mountings, and sometimes they just resell them on the secondary market through dealers. So, here you have the possibility of someone setting a synthetic diamond recut as an antique diamond into an old mounting, so buyer beware. That's one of my dilemmas, too, that I have to be very careful about. I would never want to buy that. That's when the microscope comes in handy, and that's when we use outside laboratories like the Gemological Institute of America to check the stones before we buy them, just to make sure they are correct. In our laboratory, we don't have all the equipment necessary to confirm that it is 100% synthetic or not. We have separation techniques, but a larger laboratory is able to do a lot more than we can. Sharon: A lot of these lab-grown diamonds have inscriptions and numbers or something that identifies it. Do you look for anything like that? Suzanne: If the GIA has looked at that diamond, they always inscribe them. But a diamond cutter can polish that off in a matter of 10 minutes. If you do see it, great, but it's not something that we've even seen. We don't buy round brilliant-cut diamonds. We've never bought round brilliant-cut diamonds. That's not what we buy and sell. Because we specialize in the older ones, like I said, I'm very careful about what I buy and I'm on the lookout for these supposed recuts. We know they're out there for smaller diamonds because we see them in reproductions, the European cuts and single cuts. Primarily the European cuts are cut with what we call an open culet. Instead of coming to a point on the bottom, they have a facet there, and the facets in the contemporary cuts for small diamonds have a really big open facet. That's a generalization, but it's one of those things. If you see all the other characteristics that make you think it's not an old ring and you see those stones and they're perfectly calibrated, you can kind of say, “Yes, that's a reproduction, and this is why.” Sharon: Do you or people who work at the store go out to trade shows or antique jewelry shows and look for merchandise to resell? Suzanne: That's one of the things I do. Most of the jewelry that we buy and sell comes right in our door. People send me a picture of it and we strike up a...
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Episode 220 Part 2: Secrets from a Jewelry Brand Strategist: How Lionel Geneste Gets Jewelry Brands on the Map
03/22/2024
Episode 220 Part 2: Secrets from a Jewelry Brand Strategist: How Lionel Geneste Gets Jewelry Brands on the Map
What you’ll learn in this episode: Why working with jewelry designers is part business, part therapy. Why the jewelry industry is picking up its pace to match the fashion industry, and why this trend might backfire. Why customer feedback on comfort and wearability is essential for jewelry brands. How Lionel defines success for his jewelry clients. What caused so many fashion houses to develop fine jewelry lines in the last few years, and what this trend means for the industry. About Lionel Geneste Lionel Geneste is a fashion and luxury industry veteran, having worked for John Hardy, Givenchy, Catherine Malandrino and Randolph Duke in various capacities, from global marketing to communications and merchandising. He is also the founder of the gift-giving service b.Sophisticated. Born in Tehran to French parents, Geneste grew up as a modern nomad: Cairo, Istanbul, Lagos, Beirut, Paris are just a few places he once called home. And so he acquired an eclectic eye, at an early age, for the refined and urbane—only further encouraged by his clotheshorse mother and her like-minded friends. Additional Resources Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: How does an independent jewelry brand get noticed? For some lucky jewelers, the secret is Lionel Geneste. Lionel is a jewelry strategist and advisor who has launched iconic brands, shown new collections at Paris couture week, and gotten small jewelry artists into top stores. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how the jewelry industry compares to the fashion industry; the trends, opportunities and challenges jewelers are facing today; and how he chooses his clients (and why he has to believe in their work). Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, I'm talking with Lionel Geneste. He's an independent strategist in the jewelry industry. He does this after 15 years in fashion, so he knows fashion and jewelry. Welcome back. Let’s say people haven't seen the lines of these jewels or the independent jewelers that you represent. Do they say, “Oh, I haven't seen this. I want it for my store”? Lionel: Right. They do that. Everybody has access to everything pretty much now, with Instagram or even stores posting on their websites. I tend to have a collection or a certain number of pieces with me, and then I distribute it amongst the stores I work with. I still give the list of everything I have within the U.S. So, if a client has seen something and it's not within their store, I will send it to them to present to the client. It's very interesting. Once the client knows the brand, they really go for it. They dig into the Instagram to see other pieces. I think you have to be very fluid and flexible, and you have to be able to move around your jewelry if you want to accommodate your plan. Sharon: What are the first things you advise people, your new clients, on? Is it to get involved with social media? Lionel: I know we all hear the stories of people selling off Instagram. I think the brick and mortar is still—at a certain level, we're talking about jewelry. It’s different below $8,000. It's very rare when someone buys it from a website. Even a website like Moda Operandi, for example, if there is a piece— Sharon: Which one? Lionel: Moda Operandi. It's a website that was launched on the idea of doing trunk shows on there. For example, they will very often ask for the piece to be sent so they can show it to their clients. It's rare that they buy it directly off the website. I think for pieces that are $500 to $2,000, maybe $3,000, but above a certain price, the clients want to see it, feel it. Sharon: And touch it. When you look for new clients, what do you look for? What would you consider new? Would you consider if the way they make it is new? Lionel: There are there a few things. If I take them, for example, Mike Joseph is very interesting. He has great technique. The jewelry is going to be well made. He made this entire collection of flowers in titanium, but he used the reverse side of titanium to have it as a matte finish, as opposed to a very glossy one. I think with this collection, when he was at couture, he won two prizes. So, I think he is both innovative and has great technique. Vishal, I like his take on traditional Indian jewelry, which has a lot of gold and stones, but he makes it much more sleek. The thing is not to see the metal. I don’t know if you’re familiar with the portrait cut. Sharon: No, I’m not. Lionel: The portrait cut is a slab of diamond. It's the Maharaja who built the Taj Mahal who actually asked his jeweler to do this type of slab of diamonds to put on top of their portraits so it would bring a shine to the miniature. So, it's a technique, and Vishal does rings and earrings. I think that's an interesting new way. I'm always looking for people who bring something new to the table. Sharon: You mentioned the perspective. How could their perspective be new? When you talk to other art jewelers, sometimes you look at a piece and it looks normal, then they tell you the stories behind it and you understand it better. Lionel: True. You can always try to understand the story. When you see Vishal make some of these pieces, I think you almost don't need the explanation. You see that there is something new there. I'm not saying it's wrong to try to have the story behind it, but I kind of like when—I’ve had numerous jewelers come in. They're coming to me and showing me things, and the thing I hear the most is, “I couldn't find this on the market.” And I look at the pieces, and I'm like, “I can bring you in 10 stores when there's exactly the same thing.” And I think, “No.” Sharon: So it's their technique with the materials they use. Lionel: The technique, the material, the inspiration. With Vishal it’s the reinterpretation of traditional Indian jewelry, but it's still very modern and light. Sylvie has more inspiration from literature or drawings. She goes to museums to find her inspiration. Sharon: I was just thinking, do you represent people who are goldsmiths themselves making the jewelry, as opposed to them designing it and they have a goldsmith make it? Lionel: Mike and Vishal have their own factories, so they are really following from the beginning, from the start. Sylvie has an atelier. She draws. Sharon: Were you a maker of jewelry? Lionel: No. Never. I’ve always liked jewelry, but I was never a jewelry maker. Sharon: Have you learned over the years how something is made? Lionel: Yes. I've learned more about the stones. I’ve learned more about the techniques. It's important to sell something, as you said earlier, to bring the most information. People are really curious today about how it’s made and the story behind it. Sharon: No matter who your client is, are they interested in the way it's made? Do they ask you questions? Lionel: There are different profiles. People who just respond to the look of it are not curious, and it depends on the jewelry itself. With Vishal, because of this new way and this new cut of diamond, people are asking. It's always interesting to get the background on it because there is a new historical background. Mike, for example, with his flowers connection, people were really intrigued by the use of titanium and how it was not used traditionally. So, yes, you get questions on that. Sharon: How often do you see something new that you haven't seen before? Is it once a year? Lionel: It's rare, actually, when you see people who are bringing something really new, a new proposal. Some people are doing stuff in a great way. Not everything has to be groundbreaking, and I get that. I go to couture every year, so I kind of scout, but just for myself. I like to see what's going on. That's not where I'm going to have a new client or anything. It's interesting to me to see what's new. Sometimes I see someone, and I refer them to all the stores, saying, “You should go and see that brand. It’s really cool. It's new.” Sharon: Do you advise a store to go look at the different jewelry? Lionel: Yeah, I would, even if I don’t work with them. I think stores appreciate that I do that. I think the one thing I'm known for is taking on brands that are different and unique. When I point out someone that I think is great, they will listen. Sharon: Do you only work with people who work in gold or emeralds? You mentioned John Hardy. He only works in silver. Lionel: No. For John Hardy, I went for the one-of-a-kind collection that was very stone oriented. No, I don't. The next big thing I did, I worked with Hearts on Fire, which was kind of relaunching and just hired a new designer. That was very interesting, to work with a big company. The idea of bringing this new designer on and kind of starting from scratch was an interesting thing. We worked on opening different stores and more classic, more bridal. That was an interesting strategy to implement. Sharon: Did you advise them of a designer or did you walk in and they introduced you to a new designer? Lionel: They already had the designer in mind, so we looked at the collection. They asked me about their archive and what I thought they should bring back on. I think my background with fashion and jewelry always interests people because they know I still have a foot in the fashion industry in a way. Sharon: If somebody is in the fashion industry now, can they segue? How can they segue to doing what you're doing if they got tired of fashion? Lionel: I think I know people who did the transition from fashion to jewelry. In the end, it’s the same actors. In the press and the stores, it's the same people, except for the jewelry stores. But if you talk about all the concept stores that carry jewelry as well, it's easy to do. It's the same work, basically. Sharon: So, they wouldn't be getting away from that. Do you do pop-ups? They have become popular here. Lionel: They do. I don't necessarily do pop-ups. They call it differently. For example, Vishal did something at Bergdorf called the Residency. We were in for three months, and it was very successful. It is now going to be permanent for Vishal. We’ll be at Bergdorf all the time. I think the model of trunk shows is a bit overused. It's kind of difficult to make typical trunk shows today. Again, in a certain world, once you’re at a certain price point, some stores are doing a lot of them, and it's the same people that you're soliciting over and over. There's only so much you can do. Sharon: With Vishal, what do you consider successful? You said he was successful in this residency. Was that Vishal? Lionel: Vishal. The brand is called VAK. Sharon: What was successful? What was the purpose of the residency? Lionel: The jewelry is very well-made. It's a beautiful product and not terribly expensive. I think the proposal is that the value is great, and it was new. It's a new look. The salespeople were excited about it, and I think they really reached out to their clients. That's what made it successful in the end. Sharon: You say now he's there permanently. Lionel: Yes. Sharon: He has what, a cabinet? Lionel: Yeah, a vitrine. There’s a vitrine now in the salon. Sharon: Do you ever have to pay to have prominence? Lionel: No. Sharon: What are your favorite things to sell? Lionel: I like two things. I like rings, and I like earrings. Sylvie Corbelin has a quote that I always liked. She’ll say that earrings are a gift for the other. You don't see it on yourself, but it's the people who see you, see the earrings. My mother, for example, would never go out without earrings. She would put on a pair of earrings to match, and it was for her to feel dressed. She didn’t feel that she was dressed if she was not wearing earrings. And I like big cocktail rings. Sharon: What kind of jewelry do you like for men? Do you like bracelets or necklaces? Lionel: I do like bracelets for men or a nice pinky ring, I guess. Sharon: I was surprised. I went out to lunch with somebody who had what I consider a fabulous necklace, but I would never consider it for a man. He got so many comments on it. Lionel: I’m sure. A lot of guys now are buying diamond pieces. I think there’s a way to wear it that’s chic. Sharon: How long have you been in the jewelry business? Lionel: 18 years. Sharon: It's a long time. What changes have you seen over that time? Lionel: A lot of jewelry coming. A lot more jewelry. Sharon: Really? Lionel: Yeah. You see all the brands. Now the big trend—I was just saying yesterday, Prada is launching fine jewelry. Saint Laurent has launched fine jewelry. There’s Dolce & Gabbana, Gucci. Everybody's betting on jewelry being the moneymaker. I think the biggest growth we can see right now is men's. Men are buying jewelry. Sharon: Would you say there are a lot more independent jewelers today than there were? Lionel: Not only independent, but also all the houses are launching their own lines. Clothing houses, like Prada is launching a line. Saint Laurent is launching a line. Dior did it 20 years ago, but everybody's hopping on the jewelry train. Sharon: Why do you think that is? Lionel: I think there is a real interest again for jewelry. A wider interest than just buying, but as an investment. I think also during Covid, jewelry kind of proved to be Covid-proof. I think a lot of people got the idea that jewelry was the next big thing, because it's true that 2021 was an extraordinary year for jewelry. However, I don't think it's really a trend. I think it was at the moment, and we've seen since that the numbers have been down. The money that women would put in clothes and handbags and shoes, they were not going out, so that money went to jewelry, which was great. But I think it was instant. It was not necessarily a trend. Sharon: Did your business go up because of Covid? Lionel: Huge. We saw a huge difference. Sharon And you've seen it go down or be flat? Lionel: Go down and then flat. But go down, definitely. Sharon: When you take on new clients, do they have to be making a certain amount? What do they have to have? What criteria do you use? Lionel: Well, yes, I make sure they have enough finance to launch a business and to make it start. First of all, you need to have at least three or four years in front of you. There's no instant success. However, I'm always conservative in their growth. I'm not going to ask them to put out a lot of pieces. I think it's always about opening two or three key stores that are generating enough buzz as marketing, if you will, to help grow. But try not to overflow the market. Sharon: What if they’re independent and making things you usually don’t represent, but you think there's something there, an innovation or a passion? Maybe they make pieces that sell for $3,000 or $5,000. That's their niche. Would you take somebody like them on? Lionel: Yeah, I do. All the jewelers I work with, the price point starts at $5,000, $6,000. Sharon: I won't even ask you how much it goes up to. Thank you so much for being here today. Lionel: Thank you. Sharon: I feel like I roped you in from a plane ride or something. Lionel: No, no. Thank you so much. Thank you so much for having me. Sharon: Thank you for being here. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 220 Part 1: Secrets from a Jewelry Brand Strategist: How Lionel Geneste Gets Jewelry Brands on the Map
03/20/2024
Episode 220 Part 1: Secrets from a Jewelry Brand Strategist: How Lionel Geneste Gets Jewelry Brands on the Map
What you’ll learn in this episode: Why working with jewelry designers is part business, part therapy. Why the jewelry industry is picking up its pace to match the fashion industry, and why this trend might backfire. Why customer feedback on comfort and wearability is essential for jewelry brands. How Lionel defines success for his jewelry clients. What caused so many fashion houses to develop fine jewelry lines in the last few years, and what this trend means for the industry. About Lionel Geneste Lionel Geneste is a fashion and luxury industry veteran, having worked for John Hardy, Givenchy, Catherine Malandrino and Randolph Duke in various capacities, from global marketing to communications and merchandising. He is also the founder of the gift-giving service b.Sophisticated. Born in Tehran to French parents, Geneste grew up as a modern nomad: Cairo, Istanbul, Lagos, Beirut, Paris are just a few places he once called home. And so he acquired an eclectic eye, at an early age, for the refined and urbane—only further encouraged by his clotheshorse mother and her like-minded friends. Additional Resources Photos Available on Transcript: How does an independent jewelry brand get noticed? For some lucky jewelers, the secret is Lionel Geneste. Lionel is a jewelry strategist and advisor who has launched iconic brands, shown new collections at Paris couture week, and gotten small jewelry artists into top stores. He joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how the jewelry industry compares to the fashion industry; the trends, opportunities and challenges jewelers are facing today; and how he chooses his clients (and why he has to believe in their work). Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, I'm talking with Lionel Geneste. He's an independent strategist in the jewelry industry. He does this after 15 years in fashion, so he knows fashion and jewelry. He's multi-lingual, and he represents many people abroad in the U.S., which is very, very unusual. In fact, I met him through an independent jeweler, and I thought he had such an interesting background I wanted to talk to him more. Lionel, welcome to the program. Lionel: Sharon, good morning. Thank you for having me. Sharon: I'm really glad to have you. How did you come into this business? Lionel: Well, I was in the fashion industry, then a friend of mine was taking over John Hardy. We're talking about 2006 or 2007. They were launching a one-of-a-kind collection, and they brought me on board to launch that collection and to develop it and then basically to do all the PR for John Hardy in general. Sharon: I'm not familiar with John Hardy. Is it fashion? Go ahead. Lionel: John Hardy is this company that does mostly silver. They're based in Bali. All their ateliers are in Bali and they have a big office in New York. John Hardy himself wanted to do a collection for his wife, which would be only one of a kind. That’s when we started that collection called Cinta, which means love in Balinese. People were noticing these rings, and the people from Neiman Marcus noticed them and asked if we could develop them into a full collection, which we did. I’d been more in fashion, in the couture world, and I thought I could do something. Basically, the ladies that were willing to wait for four months for a dress are also willing to have one-of-a-kind jewelry or even preorder them. Sharon: You know, when you tell me who it is, I remember who John Hardy is, but I haven't seen his jewelry for a while. It's around. So, those are your clients? Are they mostly women? Do you represent any men? Lionel: Yeah. These were the clients. The idea at the beginning, when I developed it, is I would do dinners in Paris during the couture shows, and we would present the jewelry. That was pretty much how it all started. If you look at it now, all the jewelry houses are doing presentations during the couture shows. A couple of weeks ago it was in Paris and everybody from Boucheron, Dior etc., presented their collection. It’s on the same calendar. From then on, when I left John Hardy, I started a company with a business partner. The idea was that we were giving our clients not only the PR aspect and marketing, but also the business, because I was well versed in the business side as well. It was a kind of a one stop shop. Sharon: I'm not familiar with the couture shows. Does the jewelry have a separate presentation? Lionel: Yeah. The couture shows, it’s like when the houses like Valentino, Dior, Chanel, it’s all their shows that are only one of a kind. There are very strict rules that are enacted by the Chambre de Commerce in Paris. You have to have a number of atelier, you have to have a number of people working in the atelier, it's all handmade, etc. There was a parallel with the ladies buying those clothes that are much more expensive than ready to wear and the jewelry industry, and I think everybody made the same link between those. Now, these shows are every year in January and July. The houses like Boucheron, Chanel, Chaumet, all of them hold presentations and invite the press, but also invite clients at the same time. Sharon: So, they show their most expensive jewelry. Lionel: Yes. It’s really the high jewelry collections that are shown there. Sharon: Is there somebody showing them, presenting them, or is it just come and look and see? Lionel: No, they are usually elaborate with more and more, actually. Everything is an experience. More and more they're doing elaborate dinners. For example, Boucheron at the Place Vendôme has dedicated the last floor to a big dining room, and there's also a suite. The best clients can come stay at Boucheron and stay in the building. The view on Place Vendôme is beautiful. So, now it's more a presentation with the designer himself or herself inviting their best customer, or hoping to get the best customer. Sharon: Do you invite these customers? Lionel: I used to do that a lot. I haven't done it in a year. Usually, I work with younger designers or independent and smaller designers, so I don't have the same budget. But usually what I do is I find a new, typical French bistro. I used to do it the night before the shows to make it something very informal, but still presenting the collection in a different format. Sharon: Is that how people found you? They come to these dinners? Lionel: When we talk about clients, there are two different kinds of clients. There are my clients who are the jewelers that I represent, and then I'm talking about clients who are the people who buy the jewelry. Basically, it's word of mouth. When I work with jewelers, some stores recommend me to other brands. Some clients know about someone who's launching a new brand and they refer me. That's really where I enter the competition. I make a proposal, and it’s more about that and referrals. Sharon: Do you advise the high-end buyers of jewelry? Do you advise them? You say you have two kinds of clients. Lionel: Yeah, I have some clients that are collectors. Not everyone is always looking for newness or paying attention to that. So, yes, I do advise them on what I think is a young designer that’s upcoming, and if they're serious about their collection, I think they should have a piece of that person in their collection. I launched Emmanuel Tarpin, for example, and at the time everybody wanted his earrings to be part of their collection. Sharon: Who did you say? Lionel: Emmanuel Tarpin. He's been having a lot of press lately. He's launched a collection of orchids. I don't work with them anymore, but I launched him at the beginning. Sharon: Do you have to like the people that you work with? Lionel: Absolutely. I do have to like the product. I couldn't sell something that I don't believe in. Sharon: Do you ever work with men? Do they come to you for advice? Lionel: They do. However, I find most men—no, I do, actually. I have some men that come, or they are strongly recommended by their wives. A lot of my clients are women who buy for themselves. Sharon: Okay, so they find out about you through word of mouth, or do you advertise? Lionel: But also, I do work with stores. Some of my jewelers are in stores such as Just One Eye in Los Angeles, Cayen in Carmel, Mayfair Rocks in East Hampton. I choose strategically the partnerships and in places where I know we're going to find the right client. Sharon: I bet your clients, they’re abroad and you represent them in the states. Lionel: Yes. Some of them I represent worldwide. I represent them also in Europe, in London and Paris. At the moment for my clients, I work with Sylvie Corbelin. That's how we met, you and I. Sylvie is based in Paris. I work with a brand that’s new-ish called Mike Joseph, and it was a big success at couture last year. He is based in Bangkok. Then I represent Vishal Anil Kothari, who is based in Mumbai. It's kind of a take on traditional Indian jewelry but with a much lighter frame. They use portrait-cut diamonds, emeralds. Sharon: Do people find out about you? It seems like everybody is not finding out about you through shows or their friends. Lionel: You know, friends, clients, stores, owners. They see how I work with them and recommend me to other people. I have younger friends in the industry that just started their business and ask me for advice. They recommend me or hire me. Sharon: You travel a lot because you have addresses in New York, L.A., Paris. Lionel: I was based in New York for 20 years. I moved to L.A. six years ago. I still go to New York quite often. Sharon: But you were born in Paris or in France? Lionel: I'm French. My parents traveled a lot, so I was born a bit by accident in Tehran, in Iran. But I'm French. I studied in France. Sharon: Do you feel stretched? When I try and get hold of you, I wonder where in the world you’re going to be reading this or calling from. Lionel: No, I like traveling. I think it's interesting. I find it very interesting to meet the clients. You were asking me earlier about feedback and if I give the designer I work with advice. I don't give them advice. I think they all have a strong point of view and they are not influenced by trends. However, I do give them feedback from clients. I think it's always interesting to see. Do they find the jewelry comfortable? Are the earrings too heavy? It's always interesting to see. When you work for a designer, for a woman like Sylvie, Sylvie wears her own jewelry, so she knows if it's comfortable or not. That's always interesting. Mike Joseph tells me that he always has his sister try jewelry on and even live in it for a few days before he puts it in production. Sharon: Do they tell you if it's too heavy? Lionel: Sometimes they do. They do give feedback. Yesterday we were presenting some new sketches to a store, and some stones were kind of sticking out. The first question the store manager asked was, “Is it going to snag clothes?” The answer is they had to remake that and polish the edges so it would not catch on clothes. Sharon: You were presenting sketches of the jewelry? Lionel: Yes. I was showing jewelry to a store, showing the new collection. Kind of a preview of what we're going to do for couture. I wanted to get a sense. It's always interesting. You were asking me when I take on the client, do I have to like it? I do have to like it, but I also usually show it to one or two editors that I trust or a few store owners to see what their reaction is to it as well. It can’t be only my personal things, so it's always interesting to hear what other people have said. Sharon: Do magazine fashion editors come to you to find jewelry? Lionel: Yes, they do. They’ll ask me what I have, if I have anything new and interesting. I do like to work with more individuals. I always try to bring something interesting. You were asking how I choose the designers I work with. It's difficult today to find people who really bring something new, so I'm always looking for that. Someone who has already come up with a new invention or brings something to the world of jewelry. Sharon: Do you work with them to expand? They’re independent and they grow. Do you help them when they launch a chain? Do they outgrow you, let's say? Lionel: No, and I actually, I do like that. I like to be at the beginning, helping them find everything from their voice, how to place themselves, where to place them within the market, price point. What exists already on the market? After I work with them for five or six years, and if they really grow, I like to push them out and hire a real agent. In general, the brands I work with, we try to keep it exclusive, to not have it in every store. It's very organic. We're not pushing. With strategy, I prefer to go within stores where you're going in what we call deep, like bringing 15 to 20 pieces to really show the depth of the work of the designer, rather than just five or six pieces just to have a presence, which to me doesn't really serve the purpose. Sharon: Do you advise the jewelry stores you're bringing jewelry to on how to display it or things like that? Lionel: Yeah. Some stores have a strong vision about how to do it, but yes, I will. I would ask them to take on some pieces that I find are really representative of the work, and if the pieces are not there I think it doesn't give the right image of the designer. I would try to push, even if they could be slightly reluctant in the beginning. I think some key pieces are important. Going back to Sylvie, snakes are an important part of her design. If I go into a store, I need to have some of these pieces because they're an important symbol of hers. Sharon: So, you would advise the store owner how to show it off, how to get it right. Lionel: Yes. Right. Sharon: What skills do you think you need to be successful? If somebody wants to do what you do, how would they be successful? Lionel: When you work with designers, it’s part business, part therapy. I think you really have to listen to them. That’s the important part, because you can't be totally at odds with what they're feeling and pushing for something they don't believe in. It's a dance, and it’s about listening to each other. I think the relationship with the designer is really what makes it successful. Mike Joseph, Vishal, Sylvie, we've been working together for eight years, so we know each other really well now. I think that's important. Sharon: When you said therapist, what does the therapy involve? Lionel: Designers, or the good designers, are really artists. You have to listen to what they're saying, what they feel. You have to be careful about bringing the commercial part in. You also have to respect what they're designing. So, it's a dance. Sometimes a feeling of rejection can exist, so you have to work with that as well. Sharon: You were in fashion first. What kind of experience does someone in fashion have to have to go into jewelry? Lionel: It’s little bit the same world, I think. You have to have a sense of aesthetics, and you have to like it as well. You don’t go into jewelry if you don’t like jewelry. But the transition from fashion to jewelry is pretty seamless. Sharon: Do you see a difference in the fashion world and the jewelry world? Lionel: I think there used to be a bigger difference in the sense that fashion was very fast-paced and jewelry was not. But I think jewelry is getting into that pace as well, where the designer wants to present two collections a year. So, we're getting a bit on the fashion calendar in that sense. Sharon: The jewelers, if they have a presentation, I have a visual picture of them lugging their cases and setting up. Lionel: Right. I think now people are presenting two collections a year. That used to be a fashion thing. I'm not sure it's the way to go. I don’t think you sell jewelry in the same way you sell clothes. It takes more time. I’ve witnessed clients being disappointed because there was a collection they liked, and then the collection is gone. I think that doesn't leave enough time for people to act upon something they don't necessarily want to buy within a month or two. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 219 Part 2: Power, Politics and Jewelry: Marta Costa Reis on the Second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial
03/15/2024
Episode 219 Part 2: Power, Politics and Jewelry: Marta Costa Reis on the Second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial
What you’ll learn in this episode: What to expect at the second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and tips for attending. How Portugal’s 48-year authoritarian regime and the Carnation Revolution continue to influence Portuguese artists and jewelers today. Why jewelry is so closely linked to power and politics. How artists can use masterclasses and workshops to refocus their work. How Marta is working to promote Portugal’s art jewelry scene. About Marta Costa Reis Marta Costa Reis started studying jewelry in 2004, as a hobby, in parallel with other professional activities. She dedicated herself fully to this work in 2014. Costa Reis completed the jewelry course at Ar.Co – Centro de Arte e Comunicacção Visual, in Lisbon, and the Advanced Visual Arts Course at the same school, in addition to workshops with renowned teachers including Iris Eichenberg, Ruudt Peters, Lisa Walker, and Eija Mustonen, among others. In addition to being a jewelry artist, Costa Reis teaches jewelry history at Ar.Co, writes about jewelry, and curates exhibitions. She also serves as artistic director of the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and as a board member of Art Jewelry Forum. Additional Resources: Photos Available on Transcript: How does jewelry symbolize power, and where do jewelry and politics intersect? That’s the central question that Marta Costa Reis and her fellow curators, artists and speakers will explore at this year’s Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. Marta joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why this year’s theme is so timely; how Portugal’s turbulent political history influences jewelry today; and how to plan your trip to make the most of the biennial. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, we're going to be talking about the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. I am talking with Marta Costa Reis, who is going to tell us all about it. Welcome back. Sharon: Are you a maker? Marta: I am a maker. Sharon: Have you been developing jewelry that's linked to power? Marta: Actually, not so much. My themes are a bit more, maybe spiritual is the word. I don't know. I'm interested in themes that revolve around time and our connection to time and what is behind us. It's quite different, but this was already the theme of the first biennial. We have to move on and have different themes. Of course, I couldn't do work myself for this biennial. I don't have the time or the mindset to be making at this time. I'm fully focused on the biennial. Sharon: I was noticing you have several curators. How did you choose the curators of different seminars and exhibits? How did you choose them? Marta: I can speak, for instance, about the main show that is called Madrugada, daybreak. The main title. I wanted someone that was not a Portuguese person so we don't stay too closed in our own bubble. I wanted someone from another country but who could understand what happened here. Mònica Gaspar is Spanish. Besides being an amazing intellectual and teacher and writer and very knowledgeable about jewelry and design, being Spanish, they had a similar process as ours. They also had a very long dictatorship, and at almost the same time as we did, they became a democracy. So, she could understand more or less the same events. That was important, to have someone with that experience of changing from the dictatorship into a democracy. We spoke last year Schmuck in Munich about it, and she was interested, but she has a lot of work, so it took a little while to convince her. It's because we are a team and we can share the work that were able to do it and Mònica is able to do it. Patrícia Domingues is the other curator. She's Portuguese, but she's younger than we are. Sharon: Who is that? Marta: Patrícia Domingues. She recently had a show in Brooklyn. I can write it down for you later, maybe afterwards. Sharon: Okay. Patrícia. How do you spell the last name? Marta: Domingues, D-O-M-I-N-G-U-E-S. I think I got it right. I know how to spell it, but sometimes saying it in English is more difficult. She has been living abroad for a quite a long time, but she's Portuguese, so she has a perspective that is both an insider but also an outsider. I wanted that very much, someone that is not closed here in our little bubble. She's she recently finished a Ph.D. She's younger. She's very much in contact with everything that is being reflected about jewelry in the world right now. I think they are amazing curators, and they bring a lot to the biennial and to the show. I am there as well not only because I enjoy it, but I wanted to help out with the work, sending the invitations and keeping track of everything so that everything goes smoothly. We are a very small organization, and we do a lot of it ourselves on a voluntary basis. We have to take different jobs in this process. But I'm happy they joined us, and I'm very happy to be working with them on this show. Sharon: Are you the main curator? Is there a main curator who chose the other ones? Marta: Yes, that is me. I am the main curator for the whole biennial. Then there is a team and we discuss. We basically invited Mònica and Patrícia and they agreed. The other shows, for instance, the tiara show is curated by Catarina Silva, who is also the head of the jewelry department at ARCO. I'm also taking care of, it's called Jewels for Democracy. That's the show that I mentioned about the women being honored. There's a lot of people involved, but it's quite smooth. Sharon: Somebody has to keep everything moving and coordinate. How are you promoting the show in Portugal and in general? Anything? Marta: We will start promoting now. We have the two shows in April. We did the launch last November for the whole biennial. We try to be active on Instagram. Not so much on Facebook, but mainly on Instagram. We will start a more intense campaign. We have a professional communications person that will take care of this. We will start a more intense communication campaign very soon. We have it in two parts, so we are focusing on April. Then we'll have the other show in May, and then it's the end of June. It will be in different parts. We will also announce the masterclasses very soon. I haven't mentioned the masterclasses yet. That's what I was forgetting. There will be two masterclasses, one with Lin Cheung and one with Manuel Vilhena from the 22nd to 26th of June. We'll open the registrations very, very soon. This week we'll open the registration. You'll start seeing more about it, and we will promote it in different venues. I did an interview for SMCK Magazine, the European magazine about jewelry. It just came out in their last issue. I did it in October or at the end of September, but it just came out. So, we're doing a number of things, but it will become more intense at the end of this month, in February. We will reinforce the communication and the advertising. Sharon: How long are the shows in the biennial? Does it go through the summer, or is there an ending point or beginning point? Marta: The main thing is that in the last week of June, everything will be open. The shows in the Royal Treasure Museum, the shows at the Design Museum, the colloquium, the schools, the masterclasses, the students, the galleries. Everything will be open in that last week of June. That will be the right moment to come to Lisbon. That's when we are concentrating everything. On the 30th of June, the two shows at the Royal Treasure Museum will close, but the show at MUDE, the Design Museum, will continue until the end of September, so it will go through the summer. Sharon: Why do you call it a masterclass? Who's teaching it and what are they teaching? Marta: It's Lin Cheung. She's from the UK. Manuel Vilhena is a quite well-known Portuguese artist and amazing teacher as well. It's five days. I'm not sure how to differentiate between a workshop and a masterclass, which I guess is a workshop with the masters, and they are masters. They are some of the top teachers I know. I did a small course with Manuel Vilhena a few years ago. Not yet with Lin, but I know they are amazing teachers. I'm sure everyone who comes will enjoy it. Last biennial, we also had masterclasses, one with Caroline Broadhead and the other with Christoph Zellweger. They are very interesting moments of sharing and learning and deepening your understanding of your own work, not just for students but for artists in every moment of their careers. It's super interesting to be able to have these few days to stop and look at what you do, what you want to do next with very good teachers like they are. This can be a very special moment. For a long time, I did as many workshops and masterclasses as I could, and it was so great. Sharon: The people who teach the classes, do they vet the people coming, or can anybody who wants to come into the class and take it? Marta: There is a small vetting process, but basically you send a CV and your motivation, not even a letter, but a few words of why you want to do these classes. That will be the vetting process. But it's pretty much open to everyone in every stage of their education or career. Sharon: The exhibits and going to galleries, are there charges? Are they free? What is the story with that? Marta: To visit the galleries, some of the venues will be free. The museums have tickets, but most of the venues that are not museums are free. Sharon: MUDE is the design museum that just opened. Marta: Yes. It opened a while ago, but it was under renovation for a long time. It's the only museum in Portugal that has a contemporary jewelry collection. They have been building a collection, and hopefully it will grow. They also have lots of fashion and all kinds of product and graphic design. It's a very interesting collection, very interesting building. They haven't opened yet. We will be one of the first shows. The first temporary show after the renovation will be this one. Sharon: Wow. Marta: Yeah, it's exciting. Sharon: Do you think there'll be a triennial? Marta: Hopefully we'll do the next one. I have a few ideas. I cannot say yet, but yes. I like to start thinking about the next one while still doing this one. If the team wants to, if we get the support we need, for sure there will be another one. Sharon: Now for somebody who wants—I started thinking of myself and other people, but members of the audience, if there somebody who wants to come alone, who wants to come to Portugal alone to see the exhibit, where do they stay? You said the end of June is the best time to come. Marta: The last week of June, yes. Sharon: Okay, and they stay at a hotel? Marta: Lisbon is a wonderful, very safe and, I think, easy to navigate town. We don't have a special hotel to recommend, but you can reach out to us and we can help give some suggestions. Stay in a hotel, you will get your program, tell us you are coming. We will try as much as possible to help you out. If you want to organize a group, we can help organize the group as well. But it's easy. Uber goes everywhere, taxis go everywhere, you have the subway, you have buses, you can walk, bike. There are all kinds of ways to travel in town. It's not very big. We're not always able to do it, but many of the events, the venues, will be quite close. There will be a few groups in different locations, but you can visit a lot of things by foot that will be very close by. I think it will be very easy to come even if you're alone. Sharon: Okay. As long as I have you, tell us about the market for art jewelry in Portugal. Has it grown? Do people care about it? Marta: I think like almost everywhere else, it's a specialist market that certain people enjoy a lot. Actually, it's not very known by everyone. Most people, when you say jewelry, think about more traditional, more commercial jewelry. Like everywhere, there's a way to go, I think. But there is a group of interested people. There's certainly very interesting artists. We've had contemporary jewelry, art jewelry being done and presented in shows here since the 60s. We've had a school, the specialized school in Lisbon, since the 70s. We have two galleries. One of them just turned 25. The other I think even more, maybe 30. So, we have had the market for a long time. Now, of course, it's a little bit slow, but I think that happened everywhere with the recent crisis. But it exists, and it's been here for over 40 years, 50 years now. Like everywhere else, it's a continuous work, but people love it. Many people love it. I think it will never stop being interesting and important to a number of us. Sharon: Okay. Go ahead, if there's anything else you wanted to say. Marta: About the market, that's basically it. It's an issue, and also what we wanted to promote. That's why we did the biennial, to help people see there's a lot more jewelry than the ones they're used to in the traditional way. That's part of the reason we're doing this, not just for ourselves or the ones who already know what jewelry content actually is all about, but for the ones who don't and might be interested in knowing. Getting the beautiful works that are done out there and reaching out to more people, that's it. Sharon: Okay. I'm trying to read my handwriting here. I was reading your information last night again, but let's see. The cost, the people and most of the stuff is in English as well as Portuguese. Marta: Yes, everything will be translated. The colloquium will be in English. Everyone will speak English at the colloquium, and in the museums you will have English. Everything will be translated. Our website is translated. Our Instagram, not all is translated, but because it translates automatically, it's not even an issue anymore, I think. But yes, usually you will always have Portuguese and English, except the colloquium that will be fully in English. It will be quite easy for everyone. English is indeed the common language for almost everything, so we just assume. In Portugal everyone speaks English more or less. Sharon: Do they learn it in school? Marta: Yes, yes. In school, movies. The movies are not dubbed. They are in the original English, so we are used to listening to English from when we are very young. It becomes a very common language. Sharon: That's interesting. We'll have the Instagram and the website listed when we post this. Marta: Okay, great. Going back, if people want to travel to Lisbon, if they by chance come before June, they will still have very interesting things to see besides the program of the biennial. There are the galleries that will have shows in Lisbon. There's Galeria Reverso and Galeria Tereza Seabra. They both will have shows as they usually have. In April and May, if you visit Portugal, come, because there will be jewelry to be seen. If you plan to come for the biennial, June is a very exciting month. The city is beautiful. It's when there are flowers, there's green, there's the sun. People are just happy in June, everywhere I guess. Sharon: How is the weather then? Is it hot? Marta: No, it's warm. June is still quite good. End of July, August is maybe a bit too much, but June usually is still quite good. I won't say the number because I would say it in Celsius so it doesn't mean anything, and I don't know how to say it in Fahrenheit. I won't say a number for the temperature, but it's really nice. The best thing is that the evenings are warm. That's the best, when in the evening it's still warm and it's nice outside. That's June. Sharon: Are there a lot of people in the streets still when it's warm outside and warm in the evenings? I know you don't live in the center. Marta: Yes, people will go out. As I said, in June you have traditional parties. The patron saint of Lisbon, his day is in June. From there, you have many, many parties. People go outside, they will eat outside. There will be concerts outside, there will be movies outside, everything will be outside and it will be very nice. Sharon: I hope that we can all go. I have here the official name is the Second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial, right? Marta: Exactly. Sharon: What is the theme once more again? Marta: The theme is political jewelry and jewelry of power. Sharon: Okay. And PIN is involved with this also? PIN is the art jewelry— Marta: PIN is the Portuguese Contemporary Jewelry Association, and it's the organizer of the biennial. Sharon: Reading through this information I was ready to book my flight. It looks wonderful. Marta: Yes. I'm happy you come. But surely, if people want to come, reach out to us. If you write to us through Instagram, the website, it will be easy to reach out to us, and we will help in any way. If you want to come, we can help make it happen in the easiest way possible for you. We're happy to have you and everyone who wants to come. Sharon: Well, thank you very much for telling us about it. Marta: Thank you for having me and helping us tell our story. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 219 Part 1: Power, Politics and Jewelry: Marta Costa Reis on the Second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial
03/13/2024
Episode 219 Part 1: Power, Politics and Jewelry: Marta Costa Reis on the Second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial
What you’ll learn in this episode: What to expect at the second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and tips for attending. How Portugal’s 48-year authoritarian regime and the Carnation Revolution continue to influence Portuguese artists and jewelers today. Why jewelry is so closely linked to power and politics. How artists can use masterclasses and workshops to refocus their work. How Marta is working to promote Portugal’s art jewelry scene. About Marta Costa Reis Marta Costa Reis started studying jewelry in 2004, as a hobby, in parallel with other professional activities. She dedicated herself fully to this work in 2014. Costa Reis completed the jewelry course at Ar.Co – Centro de Arte e Comunicacção Visual, in Lisbon, and the Advanced Visual Arts Course at the same school, in addition to workshops with renowned teachers including Iris Eichenberg, Ruudt Peters, Lisa Walker, and Eija Mustonen, among others. In addition to being a jewelry artist, Costa Reis teaches jewelry history at Ar.Co, writes about jewelry, and curates exhibitions. She also serves as artistic director of the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial and as a board member of Art Jewelry Forum. Additional Resources: Photos Available on Transcript: How does jewelry symbolize power, and where do jewelry and politics intersect? That’s the central question that Marta Costa Reis and her fellow curators, artists and speakers will explore at this year’s Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. Marta joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why this year’s theme is so timely; how Portugal’s turbulent political history influences jewelry today; and how to plan your trip to make the most of the biennial. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, we're going to be talking about the Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. I am talking with Marta Costa Reis, who is going to tell us all about it. I met Marta about eight to 5 years ago at the first biennial in Lisbon, Portugal. One of the goals was to gather together examples and information about the history of modern Portugal and the jewelry that's associated with it. When we think of Portuguese jewelry, we don't automatically think of art jewelry. But it has a history of more than several decades about the work that's been going on and art jewelry in general. The second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial is coming up this summer in Lisbon. The last one was held in Lisbon, too. Marta Costa Rice is going to be telling us about this biennial and what to expect this summer in Lisbon. There will be a lot going on in many venues. There is the exhibition at MUDE, which is a very well-known Portuguese design museum. There's an international symposium with people coming from all over the world to discuss the theme of the exhibition, which I'll let Marta tell you about. A lot is taking place at many of the galleries. One of the key exhibits is taking place at the Royal Treasure Museum. But I don't want to steal Marta's spotlight. Today, she'll tell us all about the second Contemporary Jewelry Biennial in Portugal. Marta, welcome to the program. Marta: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me and for this very nice introduction. So, where should I start? I don't even know. There's so much to tell. I'm currently organizing the second Lisbon Contemporary Jewelry Biennial. I do it as a new chairwoman of PIN, which is a Portuguese contemporary jewelry association. Sharon: PIN, P-I-N? Marta: PIN, yes. PIN has existed now for 20 years. It will be 20 years this September. It was created to organize quite a big event. At the time, Cristina Filipe was one of the founders and was the chairwoman for a very long time. Of course, you know her by the Susan Beach Grant. She received the first Susan Beech Grant for Mid-Career Artists, and that allowed us to publish a book which came from Cristina's Ph.D. about Portuguese jewelry, contemporary jewelry in Portugal. That time, when the book was published, that's when she had traveled to Portugal and we met. We had this challenge for ourselves, saying that if we managed to do a good program to present interesting shows, good visits, we could be able to do a biennial. That's its inspiration, this trip, how all this came to happen. Of course, the timing for the first biennial—we called it the AJF trip. It was like year zero, the pilot episode. The first biennial happened in the middle of the pandemic, so we were never sure that we really would be able to make it happen because there was still a lot of restrictions. But luckily it happened in September 2021, when people were able to travel a little bit. Then we managed to have a huge number of artists and collectors and interesting people. The theme was about the pandemic. It was jewelry of protection and connecting contemporary objects, contemporary jewelry of protection in the 21st century with very old relics and sacred objects that were shown together in an exhibition in a museum here in Lisbon. Of course, we did call it the biennial to force ourselves to do the second one. Sharon: I wanted to ask, what does biennial mean, literally? Marta: It's supposed to be every two years. That that's what it means. It's supposed to happen every two years. Of course, it's a little bit more than two years now. It's two years and a half between the first one and the second one. But because we have this idea to always have as a theme for the biennial something that is happening in the world at the moment. The first one was the pandemic. Now in Portugal 2024, we will have this very important event, which is the 50th anniversary of our revolution when we became a democratic country. I don't know if people are aware that we had an authoritarian regime for 48 years, and it happened in 1974. It was a very smooth revolution. Let's just say that, because it happened without almost any gun being shot. Of course, it took a little while. The Democratic constitution was approved a bit later, but that is the fundamental moment when we became a democratic country or started to become a democratic country. It happened 50 years ago now, so it's really a whole new generation, a whole new world, and we want to celebrate that. Jewelry, of course, has a lot to do with power or representations of power. There is also in contemporary jewelry a lot of political work. Many artists do work that is political or can be read in a political way. We wanted to consider those issues, jewelry of power and political jewelry. That's basically the idea of how it came about. Sharon: Why is it called the Carnation Revolution? Marta: That's an amazing story, actually. It happened because literally a woman that had some red carnations in her hands started to put carnations, the flowers, in the guns of the soldiers. Some of the most famous images of the revolution are soldiers with the flowers in their guns. It represents a lot of things, namely that the guns were not being shot. They were holding flowers. It happened by accident. It's suggested that this lady, apparently one of the soldiers asked her for a cigarette. She said she didn't have cigarettes, but she had a flower, and she put the flower in his gun. And then people started to replicate the gesture. Until today, the red carnation--there were also white carnations, but basically the red carnation is still very much a symbol of that movement, that revolution, and it took the name. For us, thinking about that, the gesture she had is also very much a gesture of adornment, the gesture of adorning that gun with the flower. So, we wanted to pick up on that and what it could mean. Sharon: How is jewelry linked to power? Marta: You have that example, for instance, in the Royal Treasure Museum that you mentioned, which shows the jewelry of the national treasure, jewels that belonged to the state—well, to the crown, basically. Some of them were private jewelry worn by kings and queens. Some of them are more royal estate jewelry. Basically, it's that representation of the power that it can show and the time when diamonds and precious stones and even precious metals were not used by everyone. It showed how powerful a person was, how important or how close to the eye of power. It's the idea of a crown or a tiara, of a whole set of diamonds, but also all the objects that you can put on your body, like the jeweled swords and things like that. Jewelry indeed has a lot to say about power, how you show yourself as a person of power or representing a situation of power, being a king or queen or someone with a very high responsibility. That connection always existed. This museum is brand new. It will be two years ago in June. This jewelry was not accessible. It was not shown for a very long time. It was only in a temporary exhibition, so it's an excellent opportunity to see these pieces that are absolutely incredible. Although many were lost and sold, they're still a very nice collection. Sharon: So, a biennial can be anything, theoretically. Every 10 years, it could be trucks. It could be jewelry, but it could be a biennial about anything, right? Marta: We tried to connect it to things that are ongoing in the world at the moment. For 2024, our main motivation with this event was that we knew it would happen in Portugal. There will be a lot of other moments of celebration of democracy, basically. That that's what the celebration is all about. But if you look at the world at large, it's also very topical, this issue and the themes. It's something that people can relate to at the present moment, not just Portuguese. That's what we thought could be interesting, to see how our jewelers, our artists, are connecting to the world at the present and what they have to say about it through their work, through jewelry. Sharon: How did you get involved in it? Marta: I don't know. It's probably a personality trait. I like to get involved in things. I like this tendency to be of service to something larger than myself. I became involved first with PIN because in my previous professional life, I used to—I was not a lawyer, but I studied law, so I worked with law. I started to be involved with PIN about some situations that were happening with laws that were changing that affected jewelry. So, I started to cooperate with them on that issue. Then I was very much involved in AJF's first visit to Lisbon, and then in the organization of the first biennial. Sharon: AJF means—I want everybody to understand that AJF means Art Jewelry Forum. Marta: Art Jewelry Forum, yes. So, I was the person helping in Portugal. There were others, but I was one of them. I got very much involved in the first biennial and then Cristina wanted to leave and not do the second one. She was very tired and wanted to move on to something else. I said, "Okay, but we did this biennial. We need to try to do the second one." That's what happened. And I said, "Okay, I'll try to take over and do the second biennial." That's what happened. That's my mission at the moment at this organization, the Portuguese Association for Contemporary Jewelry, to do the second biennial, and from then on let's see how many more we can do. Sharon: I noticed that she wasn't on the list of speakers. Are you giving any kind of prize or a grant like Cristina received 10 years ago to do her book? Marta: No. The program is two exhibitions in the Royal Treasure Museum. One of the exhibitions will be contemporary jewelers doing work to honor a woman of their choice that had a role in the democratic transition, so a woman that was especially hurt by the dictatorship or was especially involved in the democracy. Many of them are artists because we also had censorship and artists could not be free in their work. Many of the women the jewelers chose to honor are artists. A few of them even had to leave Portugal and move to other countries to be able to do their work. But not only do we have anonymous women, we have some politicians. We had one of the first women prime ministers in Europe, so she will be honored as well. There are a few other women that people felt needed some recognition or wanted to give them their recognition. In 1974, when the revolution happened, many of the actors were men because it was done by military men, and all the politicians were men. A few women started showing up afterwards. But before the end of our dictatorship, women had no representation at all in the public space. They were mostly shown as accessories. Good woman, good wife, good cook, but that's all. Only after 1974 did women start to have their own representation as professionals in other things besides being wives. We couldn't even travel to other countries without the husband's permission or have bank accounts or things like that. When I was born, that was still the reality in my country. It's not 200 years ago. It's very, very close to us. That's also why it's important to show those who have not lived through that that an authoritarian regime is a terrible thing. So, we are honoring these women. We have another show of contemporary tiaras by a contemporary artist that will be shown next to the crown jewels. That will be an interesting contrast. These two shows will open in April. So, from April to the end of June, you can see contemporary jewelry in the Royal Treasure Museum, which will also be a first. It's a very endearing project, and there have been great, great partners. Then in May, a show by the contemporary artist Teresa Milheiro will open as well. It's sort of an anthological show, but not only. She always had political themes in her work, so that's one of the reasons why she was chosen to do this solo. Then in the last week of June, between 24th and 30th of June, there will be an immensity of shows. The big show at MUDE that is curated by myself, Mònica Gaspar and Patrícia Domingues is an international collective show with artists from many different parts of the world. Not all parts of the world, because in many countries you still don't have a lot of contemporary jewelry. But we're doing our best to have it as broad as possible. There will be what we call parallel events, which are shows organized by artists, collectives and students that are doing shows at the same time in Lisbon. There's the colloquium with international speakers from many parts of the world. The colloquium will be in English. It will also be accessible online for anyone who wants to stay at home and still be able to accompany that. It will also be about political jewelry and politics and politics of jewelry and power. This will still be the main themes. There will be a show with schools from different countries, a meeting of the students and then an exhibition. The educational part is very present. I'm sure I'm forgetting a lot of things or there are things I didn't say yet. There will be what you call a jewelry room with galleries from different countries. Galleries are still, and hopefully will be for a long time, a very important part of the jewelry world, so we want them to be present as well and show their artists and their choices. The last week of June will be absolutely filled with contemporary jewelry in Lisbon. Plus it's an amazing month. It's the best month in Lisbon. There are parties on the streets. It's the best. Sharon: Do the galleries choose what to show that's linked to this theme? What is the official theme? Marta: There is a title, which is Madrugada. That means daybreak. This title is inspired by a very beautiful poem by a Portuguese poet, Sophia de Mello Breyner. It's very short, but basically it says this is a new dawn after a very long, dark night. It's a poem about the revolution. She loosely calls it a new dawn. This is the theme. We asked the galleries to bring work that is connected to theme, to political jewelry, and we also asked them to present a Portuguese artist. Some of them already have Portuguese artists in their midst, in their group of selected artists, and some don't. What we want is for galleries to have a look at the national, Portuguese artists, and make their choice. That way, our Portuguese artists get more representation or more presence and maybe a little more representation in other countries. Sharon: You mentioned the educational piece of the shows and symposia. What do you have planned, and what are the topics? Are they in English? Marta: They are in English. The symposium is in English. I can give you some examples. We will have, for instance, and this could be interesting for you, the artist Cindi Strauss will speak about themes from the book she published recently on American jewelry in the 60s and 70s and the counterculture. She will be there. We will also have a Brazilian researcher called Dionea Rocha Watt, and she will speak about jewelry of power, like the jewelry that Imelda Marcos owns, or the jewelry from the recent scandal with the former Brazilian President Bolsonaro, who sold some jewelry he received, and other representations and connections between jewelry and power. But we will also have, for instance, Rosa Maria Mota, who will speak about traditional Portuguese jewelry. It was used by popular woman from the countryside that bought as much gold jewelry as possible as a way to preserve their finances and their power. It's the connection between traditional gold jewelry and women power. Things like that. It's always around politics and policy and power and jewelry. Hopefully it will be very interesting. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 218 Part 2: Gina D’Onofrio’s Tips for Choosing a Qualified Independent Appraiser
03/08/2024
Episode 218 Part 2: Gina D’Onofrio’s Tips for Choosing a Qualified Independent Appraiser
\ Transcript: Auctions, appraisals, and the professionals who perform them are some of the most misunderstood elements of the jewelry industry. That’s exactly why Gina D’Onofrio, independent appraiser and Co-Director of Fine Jewelry at Heritage Auctions, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She discussed what a consigner can expect when selling jewelry with an auction house; how appraisers come up with values (and why they might change); and how consumers can protect themselves by asking their appraiser the right questions. Read the episode transcript here. What you’ll learn in this episode: What questions to ask appraisers and auction houses before selling your jewelry. What education and networking opportunities an aspiring appraiser should seek out. Why an appraisal includes multiple values, and why those values will change depending on the reason for the appraisal. What the process of selling jewelry with an auction house is like, and why you might choose an auction house over selling online or to a store. What a qualified appraiser will look for while inspecting a piece of jewelry. About Gina D'Onofrio With work in the retail, auction and manufacturing sectors of the jewelry industry since 1989, Gina D'Onofrio's experience encompasses jewelry design and production, appraisals, buying and selling of contemporary, antique and period jewelry, sales and management. Gina operates an independent gemological laboratory, appraisal service and consulting firm and has been catering to private individuals, banks, trusts, non-profit organizations, insurance companies, legal firms and the jewelry trade in the greater Los Angeles area. Gina received her Master Gemologist Appraiser® designation, upon completion of appraisal studies, written and practical examinations and peer appraisal report review with the American Society of Appraisers. In addition, she was awarded the Certified Master Appraiser designation with the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers. In 2013 Gina received Los Angeles Magazine's coveted "Best in LA" award for her Jewelry Appraisal Services. She conducts presentations and entertaining speeches about appraisal and jewelry related topics to private and corporate groups in Los Angeles and throughout the USA. Photos Available on Additional Resources: Transcript: Auctions, appraisals, and the professionals who perform them are some of the most misunderstood elements of the jewelry industry. That’s exactly why Gina D’Onofrio, independent appraiser and Co-Director of Fine Jewelry at Heritage Auctions, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She discussed what a consigner can expect when selling jewelry with an auction house; how appraisers come up with values (and why they might change); and how consumers can protect themselves by asking their appraiser the right questions. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, I am glad to welcome back Gina D'Onofrio, an appraiser who just returned from being an independent appraiser. She returned to the auction house Heritage as co-director of jewelry. She was also on the podcast in the very beginning, and it's good to have her on again. Welcome back. If you become a certain kind of appraiser, let's say real estate or antique jewelry or I'll call it regular jewelry, how do you continue your education in those areas? What do you do if you're a real estate appraiser and you want to be an expert, or an antique expert? What would you do to continue education in that area? Gina: You mentioned real estate. So, you mean you're appraising houses and all of a sudden you want to appraise antique jewelry? Sharon: No, if you're in a particular area, is what I mean. You work in jewelry. What do you do to further your education besides going to the conferences, handling the jewelry? Are there other things you can do to further your education in those areas? In that area, I should say. Gina: If you're working in jewelry, you're basically filling all the educational holes that you might have. When you say you work in jewelry, if you work for a contemporary jeweler, then you need to have more exposure to vintage jewelry. If it's vice versa, maybe you're working with antique and estate jewelry and you're not as exposed to what present day Tiffany and Company and Cartier and Van Cleef & Arpels are doing, then you have to self-educate and gain more exposure to that kind of jewelry. As a jewelry appraiser, anything can cross your desk. Quite often, I might receive a collection that belongs to somebody, and she may have something that she bought last week and she may have something that her great-grandmother owned and she has inherited. You need to be able to recognize and evaluate and appraise both pieces. So, you do need a very well-rounded education. Sharon: You raised the point of Cartier and David Webb and the high-end pieces that designers make, but not everything you see is going to be that. As you said, there's the piece that the grandmother passes down. Heritage, I presume, isn't all Cartier. What do you do then? What do you do if a piece comes across your desk and it's not a Cartier or it's not a David Webb? Do you look at a David Webb as the benchmark and then go from there? Gina: No, you don't, because a piece that has no stamp or signature doesn't necessarily mean that it's not a fine piece. That's where having an understanding of jewelry manufacturing is critical. You do need to gain an education on how a piece of jewelry is made. GIA is teaching a class called jewelry forensics. In that class, they teach appraisers and other members of the industry how to look at a piece and recognize how it was fabricated. Was it made entirely by hand? Was it made by carving a wax and casting it? Was it made via CAD/CAM design and 3D printing? Was made by using a die struck method? These are all different methods of producing a piece of jewelry, and as an appraiser you need to have an education in that so when you're holding that piece of jewelry in your hand, A) you recognize how it was made, and B) you recognize the quality of the workmanship. That plays into the value of the piece. For example, you might have a piece of jewelry, and you recognize that it was made entirely by hand. A great deal of time and effort has gone into making it, and the workmanship is excellent. Flawless, in fact. That is going to inform you as to what it would cost to replace that piece if your client wants to insure it for another piece that has been made entirely by hand. Or, you might look at a piece that is mass produced using CAD/CAM and 3D printing, but it's a piece that's not finished very well. It's poorly made, and the setting work is very poor, too. In fact, some of the stones are a little bit loose because they weren't set properly, or perhaps they're not straight in the piece. That's going to tell you that it's a mass-produced piece. If it's not signed, you're going to be looking at other mass-produced pieces of the same type of lower quality in order to determine what it would cost to replace that piece. Understanding production is really important. Sharon: Can you be an appraiser without having this background of manufacturing and that sort of thing? Could you be an appraiser? Gina: You can. I'm really sad to say that there is no licensing of jewelry appraisers. There is no regulation, no government regulation. We self-regulate. That's why if you want to become a professional appraiser and you want to be the best appraiser you can be, you should join an organization that gives you excellent education and network with other very experienced appraisers who can help guide you in the right direction to get the education that you need. Unfortunately, anybody can appraise jewelry and nobody can stop you. As a consumer, it's best to look for an appraiser that has reached the highest level they can possibly attain within an appraisal organization that requires their members to requalify every five years. The International Society of Appraisers has a requalification program. So does the American Society of Appraisers. They do require their members to requalify every five years. Then you have the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers that have different strata of membership, different tiers of membership, so look for an appraiser within that organization that has successfully completed the Certified Master Appraiser program, the CMA, and at the very least is a certified appraiser. Someone who has sat for the exams. Sharon: What is requalification? Is that a test on paper or a computer, or is it just that you came to class? Gina: It varies. It depends on which organization. I failed to mention the American Gem Society, I apologize. They also have an Independent Gemologist Appraiser program. For requalification, you have to attend a minimum amount of education every year. You have to prove you have done that. There is also an exam you have to take as well. Sharon: You answered one of the questions I had, which is what you would ask somebody you want to be an appraiser for you. What would you ask them to know if they're good or not? What should I ask? What would somebody in the public ask if they're looking for an appraiser? Gina: Yes. Everything that I just told you. Make sure that they have reached the highest designation they can within those appraisal organizations. Sharon: I took some antique jewelry to an appraiser not knowing that they did all kinds of jewelry, but they weren't an expert in antiques. Was there any way to suss that out in advance? Gina: That's a great question, Sharon. That's tricky. As I mentioned earlier, I feel that it's difficult to get a formal education in jewelry history today, so you are getting it piecemeal from wherever you can, which is why I developed my courses. There is no way to look at an appraiser and have them prove to you that they are a specialist in antique and period jewelry. Unfortunately, that's something that comes by way of reputation. You may have to ask, "How did you become proficient?" You may have to just ask them to explain that to you. It's a tricky one. As a consumer, I'm not quite sure how that could be proven. Sharon: What would you suggest the public ask if you want to know if an appraiser is credentialed, a credible appraiser? Gina: You ask them what level of certification, what designation, they have achieved within their appraisal organization. Are they a member of the ASA, the NAJA, the ISA, the AGS? If they are a member—you could be a member and not attain any education. You could be a candidate member, or you could just simply be a member. Ask them, "What education have you completed with these organizations? Are you designated? What is your designation? What is your experience with antique and period jewelry? Are you proficient with that type of jewelry?" Just outright ask them to show you what their education and designation is. Most appraisers who have achieved this level of education and designation have spent a great deal of time attaining it and are proud of what they've achieved, and they usually put up on their website for everybody to see. But if they haven't done that, you can ask them for their professional profiles so you can read through what they've achieved, and you can even check it. You can call those appraisal organizations to see if the information you've been provided is true and accurate. Sharon: I'm thinking about something you said earlier. If somebody says to me, "I don't have a formal education in this, but I've handled a million and one pieces in this era, and I can tell right away if it's fake or not and who made it," what do you say to that? Gina: That's quite possible. Absolutely. Then that makes them a connoisseur and a specialist in antique and period jewelry. But are they an appraiser? Do they have an education in appraisal report writing? Can they write that appraisal report for you? That's the other part. That's the other side of the coin. That's the other thing they have to have to be an appraiser. Otherwise, they're an expert in that period of jewelry, but they're not necessarily an appraiser. Sharon: That's interesting. When I thought about being an appraiser myself, it was the report writing that scared me off. That's very detailed and very scientific in a way. Very precise. Gina: Yes, and that education is something that you can study. Sharon: Okay. I think I'll pass. Gina: You almost looked like you were considering it, Sharon. Sharon: No, I think I've heard too much about the classes for the report writing and how they're pretty onerous, in a in a good way. Gina: They're fascinating. I highly recommend it. Anyone out there who is writing appraisal reports and doesn't have a foundation in appraisal report writing from one of the major organizations, I really suggest that you go out and get that education. You'll be amazed at what you'll learn. It's going to make you even better at what you do. Sharon: Why would you say it makes you better at what you do? Gina: This education is written by appraisers, not just one appraiser, but collaborative groups of appraisers who have been immersed in that profession for many, many years. They have learned the best approaches and the pitfalls. They have studied the government requirements. They may have had a lot of experience in appraising for litigation, and this collective information has been formally put into a course. It's only going to help you as an appraiser. It's going to help you avoid ending up in court or possibly being disqualified as an appraiser for the IRS because you did not follow the proper procedures. If you know what pitfalls to avoid and how to arrive at a more informed opinion of value, it's only going to make your appraisal a better product for the person that's using it. Sharon: That makes a lot of sense. I keep going back to Antiques Roadshow. They talk about the auction value and the retail value and the insurance value. It drives me crazy because you see the glassy-eyed look in somebody's eyes. I want to say, "Didn't you hear what they said?" Gina: As an appraiser and as a specialist for an auction house, this is the biggest problem. This is the biggest obstacle for a private individual, understanding that there is not just one value. There are multiple values for the same piece of jewelry. It just depends on the market. It depends on whether it's the auction market, whether it is the liquidation market, or whether it is the retail market or whether it is the antique and estate jewelry market. Is it being sold as a brand-new piece? Is it being sold as a pre-owned piece in a retail scenario? Is it a custom-made designer piece? The same piece of jewelry could have various values depending on what you need that information for. Sharon: I wonder, you talked about this handmade piece. Is there a replacement? Yes, there's an insurance value, but could you find a replacement somewhere in the market? Gina: That's a great question. You know what? Appraisal organizations, we all have forums, email chat groups where we ask each other questions and use the collaborative brain trust of your peers to help you solve a problem, and a problem came up today. There was a photograph of a bracelet that was posted by a professional appraiser. This appraiser recognized the designer. The designer and the manufacturer—they are one in the same—was a French designer called Georges Lenfant. He was a manufacturer of chains, particularly beautifully constructed chains and bracelets, and he manufactured for all the major jewelry houses, Van Cleef & Arpels, Cartier, goodness me, so many of them. He was very active in the 50s and the 60s and the 70s. He had his own trademark that he would put inside a piece, but he didn't sign it. The piece was often signed with the jewelry house, Cartier, and then it had the Georges Lenfant stamp inside the piece. He was a French maker. I tell you all of this to explain that today, when pieces of jewelry come to market made by this particular maker, there is an extra layer of interest and value because these pieces are so beautifully made. This appraiser posted a piece of jewelry by this maker. This is one of those pieces that wasn't signed by a major jewelry house, but the appraiser was very good and was able to recognize that it was the Georges Lenfant trademark and posed the question, "Can anybody tell me where I can find examples of this piece so I can arrive at an opinion of replacement value?" It was a 1970s bracelet made by this French maker. Where would you replace a 1970s piece made by this maker? It would be with somebody who typically sells vintage jewelry, high-end vintage jewelry. That should have been the answer to this question. Unfortunately, one of the answers provided was, "Contact the manufacturer and ask them what they would charge you to make it today." It's not being made today, not that particular piece. It's a vintage piece by a collectible maker. I guess that's a very long example to your question. You need to determine, is this a piece that's typically being made today, or is this a vintage piece that has collectible value? Do you recognize who the maker is? Is there a stamp inside there? Is there some way you can look this up? If you can't look it up, who do you go to? How do you find out? You need to know to ask all these questions. All this happens by networking with your peers, by attending appraisal conferences, by self-educating, and by handling a lot of this jewelry. Sharon: Do you have a favorite period that you like to appraise, or a favorite stone that you are more partial to? Gina: Oh, boy. Gosh. Well, my focus is 20th century jewelry. I have no favorites. I love all periods of jewelry, but because I am very much immersed these days in jewelry from 1930 to 2000, which I feel is an area of education that is not being covered enough, I tend to focus on 20th century jewelry and preferably the latter half. Sharon: I can understand. How do you bring the jewelry in, and what do you do with it once you have it? Gina: A typical day as a consignment director at Heritage Auctions. Well, that varies from day to day, but if you're talking about the consignment process, I could be going to visit with a client. It could be in his or her home. I could be looking at the jewelry and studying the jewelry and learning about the history behind the piece from the owner. Based on that information and based on the collection, I could be coming up with estimate ranges of what the piece of jewelry may sell for at auction. At that point, the owner of the jewelry may consign it to the auction house, at which point I take the jewelry with me and it goes through the auction process. It gets shipped to headquarters, where it is professionally photographed. If there are any repairs that need to be done, it's done at that point. If lab reports need to be obtained, they are submitted to the labs for grading reports or gem origin identification reports. Then they go through the cataloging process, where the pieces are tested,...
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Episode 218 Part 1: Gina D’Onofrio’s Tips for Choosing a Qualified Independent Appraiser
03/06/2024
Episode 218 Part 1: Gina D’Onofrio’s Tips for Choosing a Qualified Independent Appraiser
What you’ll learn in this episode: What questions to ask appraisers and auction houses before selling your jewelry. What education and networking opportunities an aspiring appraiser should seek out. Why an appraisal includes multiple values, and why those values will change depending on the reason for the appraisal. What the process of selling jewelry with an auction house is like, and why you might choose an auction house over selling online or to a store. What a qualified appraiser will look for while inspecting a piece of jewelry. About Gina D'Onofrio With work in the retail, auction and manufacturing sectors of the jewelry industry since 1989, Gina D'Onofrio's experience encompasses jewelry design and production, appraisals, buying and selling of contemporary, antique and period jewelry, sales and management. Gina operates an independent gemological laboratory, appraisal service and consulting firm and has been catering to private individuals, banks, trusts, non-profit organizations, insurance companies, legal firms and the jewelry trade in the greater Los Angeles area. Gina received her Master Gemologist Appraiser® designation, upon completion of appraisal studies, written and practical examinations and peer appraisal report review with the American Society of Appraisers. In addition, she was awarded the Certified Master Appraiser designation with the National Association of Jewelry Appraisers. In 2013 Gina received Los Angeles Magazine's coveted "Best in LA" award for her Jewelry Appraisal Services. She conducts presentations and entertaining speeches about appraisal and jewelry related topics to private and corporate groups in Los Angeles and throughout the USA. Photos Available on Additional Resources: Transcript: Auctions, appraisals, and the professionals who perform them are some of the most misunderstood elements of the jewelry industry. That’s exactly why Gina D’Onofrio, independent appraiser and Co-Director of Fine Jewelry at Heritage Auctions, joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast. She discussed what a consigner can expect when selling jewelry with an auction house; how appraisers come up with values (and why they might change); and how consumers can protect themselves by asking their appraiser the right questions. Read the episode transcript here. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. Today, I am glad to welcome back Gina D'Onofrio, an appraiser who just returned from being an independent appraiser. She returned to the auction house Heritage as co-director of jewelry. She was also on the podcast in the very beginning, and it's good to have her on again. I got to know Gina when she was head of the western arm of the Association of Jewelry Historians, a volunteer position. I got to know her further when she was an independent appraiser. She recently returned to Heritage Auction House as co-director of the jewelry department. Why did she return to Heritage? That's one of the things she'll be sharing with us as she tells her story. Gina will also be describing why she chose to become an appraiser and what the job entails on a day-to-day basis. She'll tell us how she deals with the dual challenges of not only bringing in jewelry to appraise, but nurturing relationships that make clients keep coming back to her with jewelry. Gina, welcome to the podcast. Gina: Thank you so much. It's such a pleasure to be back, Sharon. Great to talk to you again. Sharon: I'm so glad that you are on the show again. Now, my first question is if I describe to you a piece of jewelry and you've never held it or seen it or anything, but I tell you it's this many years old and it's these stones, if it has stones, can you tell me how much you think it would be worth? Gina: Well, appraising a piece of jewelry that I can't actually see and evaluate and hold in my hand to determine the different value characteristics it might have, it would be flippant of me to give you a value. I think it would be unfair, because you may describe it to me based on your knowledge of the piece or based on what somebody has told you about the piece. If I hold it in my hand, I might see something totally different. I may have a different opinion. For example, you may say that someone told you it was an Art Deco brooch, that it was 1920s, and it was a sapphire and diamond piece. If I had a chance to look at it, I might determine that the sapphire was laboratory grown rather than natural, because they were producing sapphires in a lab in the 1920s. You may not have that piece of information. You may have part of it, that it's a sapphire, but you may not have the rest. So, for me to arrive at a value based on your description, it's just incomplete. It wouldn't be fair. Sharon: Could you tell if a sapphire was lab grown or if it was natural if you just looked at it without a loupe or without a microscope? Gina: No, not without a loupe. Definitely not. Sometimes I can determine with a loupe, depending on the sapphire and the nature of the inclusions it may or may not have. But I would have to say that nine times out of 10, I need that microscope to separate the lab grown from the natural. In fact, I was doing a lot of that today. I have a collection of pieces from a dealer, and they need me to tell them if it's laboratory grown or natural. Most of the pieces they have provided to me are circa 1920 through to 1940, and about 70% of them are lab grown. Sharon: That's interesting. One would think that they're mostly all the same. They're all lab grown or they're all natural, or most of them are one or the other. Gina: Yes, one would think. In fact, one of the pieces had both in the one piece. It had square calibre cut sapphires in the piece, and some of them were natural and some of them were lab grown. They were selected not for the value of the sapphires. They were selected so that they were all uniform in color. At the time, I have no doubt that those lab-grown sapphires were much more expensive than they are today, just like I imagine lab-grown diamonds will be 20 years from now. Right now, they are falling rapidly in price. I imagine in the future we'll be looking at those lab-grown diamonds just like we're looking at lab-grown sapphires that were produced in the early 20th century. Sharon: That's interesting. Like this dealer, if I have several pieces of jewelry that I want to sell or I want to auction off, should I make the rounds of auctioneers and see what the best deal is, or should I choose the one I like, the auctioneer that I jibe with the most? Gina: That's an interesting question. There's a lot of depends there. It depends on the piece that you have. Some auction houses will only take a certain price point and above in order for them to bring your piece to a successful sale. So, already, your piece may or may not be suitable for some auction houses. The second part of your question, I think, is very important because the market is going to do what it's going to do. If the auction house is one of the more reputable, top-tier auction houses—Heritage Auctions is definitely one of them. If they are going to be putting the proper marketing behind your piece, professional photography, if they have an international bidding audience, then after that, it's going to be important to know that you have a comfortable relationship with the representative of that auction house and that they are going to be your advocate, because it's not just the estimate. In fact, the estimate is probably the very least important thing about your piece if you were going to be selling it at auction. What's more important is what are they going to do for you? Are they going to represent your piece properly? Do they have the right audience for your piece? How many photographs of the piece are going to be taken? Is it going to be up for a public preview? Is it a traveling preview that your piece is going to be placed in? There are many aspects to this that need to be discussed with you as the consignor. Then also, what fees are you going to be charged? There's a lot of ifs. I wish I could give you a more direct answer, but if you were going to me, for example, at Heritage Auctions, I'm going to be exploring all those options with you so that you can make an informed decision. Sharon: On the Antiques Roadshow, they say very often, "In a well-marketed auction, this would be X-Y-Z price." To me, a well-marketed auction is one that has to advertise. I'd see ads. That's it. What would you consider a well-marketed auction piece or auction? Gina: Well, Sharon, coming from you, I think that's an excellent question since you are a marketing extraordinaire. These days, marketing is very different, isn't it? We're looking at more the digital aspect of marketing, because so many of us are online now, just like you and I are right now. Being online for marketing is what type of social media presence do you have? What type of email marketing do you have? Also, what is your bidding audience for marketing? How are you able to reach them? Through email, or are you just relying on more conventional forms of auction marketing, be it print advertising or be it public previews? I think in this present market, it's good to have a balance of both. But I am finding that digital marketing is becoming more and more critical. Sharon: I would believe that. I'm curious, what are the fees involved? Is it the buyer who pays the fees or the auction house that pays the fees to the buyer? I never understood that. Gina: Again, it depends. As far as the consignor goes, if you have the Hope Diamond, then I imagine that the buyer will have no fees to pay. It is such a highly coveted piece that everybody would be very competitive to have that on the cover of their auction catalog. But in the auction world, with most auction houses, both the buyer and the seller are paying fees. This is how the auction house survives. The fees are going to vary depending on the consignment. How many pieces are you consigning? What is the value of the pieces that you're consigning? That is going to vary. On the buyer end, the fees are very much locked in. I have to tell you, I don't join Heritage Auctions again for another two weeks, so I don't have the most current buyer's fees. But I believe that it is around 25%, give or take, up until a certain amount. Above that, the buyer's premium starts to go down in price. It's tiered depending on the value of the piece, the hammer price of the piece that you are purchasing. Sharon: Can you negotiate? Let's say you do have the Hope Diamond. What is negotiable? How many pieces you are putting in, but how much you're getting for each piece or reserved prices? Gina: As a consignor? Sharon: Yes. Gina: Fees can be negotiable if you have something important. If it's a lot of work to sell a piece, and by that I mean if you have 100 pieces that are probably going to auction for $1,000 or less, then you will probably pay the full rate because it's a lot of work to sell all those individual pieces for the amount of money that the auction house will receive. It really depends on what you have. But if you have something very important with important provenance like the Hope Diamond, then that's definitely negotiable. As far as reserves go, reserves are something that the specialist should really set for you. That is something they will suggest to you. You may or may not agree with them, but at the end of the day, once you arrive at an agreed reserve, then that goes into your contract. That is contractual. Sharon: Can you explain to everybody to make sure we're all on the same page, what is the reserve, what's a consigner, and what's the opposite? Gina: Yes, the language. The consignor is the person that owns the jewelry. They are the person that is loaning the jewelry to the auction house to give them the opportunity to sell it on behalf of the consignor. So, the consignor owns the piece. The reserve is the absolute minimum that the piece will hammer for, and hammer means the final bid, the highest bid that someone will pay for at auction. That is the absolute minimum that it will go for at auction. That is the reserve. It is also the opening bid for Heritage Auctions. For example, let's say a piece has an auction estimate of $1,500 to $2,500, and I may suggest to you that the reserve for that piece should be $1,000. The opening bid, the minimum is $1,000, so the bidding begins at that amount. If nobody else bids on that piece except for one person who has bid the reserve, $1,000, that is the price it will hammer for. That is the final sale. Does that make sense? Sharon: It makes sense. I was wondering how long somebody has to pull the piece back, as they say. If they have the feeling they won't like what the hammer price is, can they pull it back? Gina: The reserve, that $1,000 for that piece is in their written contract. And in the written contract, they have agreed to allow the auction house to take it through to completion. By the time it is photographed, cataloged, shipped, insured, marketed, the auction house has invested a certain amount of money in that piece. So, if there is a contract, if there is an agreement for the auction house to try and sell this on behalf of the consignor, they have to be allowed to take it through to completion. That is why it is in the contract, because the auction house is investing money in the piece. Sharon: That makes a lot of sense. Jumping subjects, in jewelry you can do a lot of different things. Why did you decide to become an appraiser? You could have done a lot of things with a GIA, a gemological degree. Why did you decide to become an appraiser? Gina: That's a great question. For me, I didn't initially plan on becoming an appraiser. I worked in different areas of the jewelry industry. I got my Gemological Diploma. I graduated in 1992. I got my FGA. I worked in retail and then I worked in design. At the time, I was also doing appraisals in Australia. We call them valuations. I was a valuer, but that was something that I did part time. I did what was required at the time. Then I worked for an antiques dealer and was involved in buying and selling of antique and estate jewelry. Then I worked for a manufacturer assisting in the production of jewelry. I worked in different areas of the jewelry industry. Many years later I decided to open my own business, and that business was going to be doing custom design work because I was able to draw, do renderings and was very good with production. The other half of my business was going to be appraisals. I was doing both, and the business pretty much decided for me what I was going to do full time. After I was established, I realized that there was such a demand for an independent appraiser that I had to stop jewelry designing and just focus on the appraisal aspect of it. Sharon: Why an independent appraiser? I would think that if you go to an auction house, I would like to think it's an independent appraisal. If the appraiser works for the auction house, whether or not they do, it would still be an independent appraisal. Is that true or not? Gina: Well, to answer that question, we probably need to back up a little bit and define what an appraisal is. An appraisal is a researched opinion of value. In order for me to arrive at a researched opinion of value, I need to know what you, the client, want to do with the information. Are you purchasing insurance for your piece? If that's the case, we need to appraise your piece for what it would cost for you to walk into a store that typically sells that piece of jewelry. We research that market. We research all the stores that typically sell your jewelry. The most common price is what I would appraise it for. If you are selling that exact same piece of jewelry, that ends up being a different value. So, I have to understand what you want to do with that information. If you, as a private individual, want to sell your piece of jewelry, your options are to sell it at auction, to sell it directly to a dealer or a store that sells pre-owned jewelry, or you could put it online on eBay or one of the online auction platforms yourself as a private individual. In all cases, there is a cost to selling that we have to factor in, and we also have to research what pieces like yours have recently sold at auction. We look at the most common price to arrive at an opinion of resale value. That value is going to be different to what you would pay for it in a retail store. Sharon: You reminded me that earlier today I happened to be looking at an estate jewelry site and they said, "You can consign your jewelry with us." I thought that was interesting. I wonder, do they pay more for it? Where would we get the most for it? Is there a rule of thumb? Gina: Well, again, it depends. What type of marketing, what type of audience do they have, what type of track record do they have? I really can't speak to the online vendor you're referring to because I don't know who it is. But basically, you want to sell your jewelry with the company or the platform that has the biggest audience and the best track record, and the ones that are going to do the most in the form of marketing for your piece. And then also you have to look at the cost of selling and take all that into consideration. Who is going to represent your piece in the best possible way? Sharon: What was the process that you had to go through to become an appraiser once you decided that's what you wanted to do, plus the rendering and the custom design? What did you have to do? Gina: For me, my skill set is a culmination of having worked in different areas of the industry. Everything that I had done up until the point where I started to appraise independently assisted me in being able to evaluate a piece. Aside from that, having a Gemological Diploma, having experience in different areas of the jewelry industry, having handled thousands and thousands of antique and period pieces of jewelry, having worked for a manufacturer and understanding the process of manufacturing jewelry, understanding the difference between a handmade piece versus a cast, mass produced piece. My past experience helped me with all of that. That's one side of appraisal education, hands-on experience. The other side is understanding how to write an appraisal report and appraisal theory, which is some of what I was trying to describe to you earlier with some of the questions you posed. For example, understanding the difference between resale value, liquidation value, fair market value, writing an appraisal for the IRS, writing an appraisal as an expert witness for settling a dispute in court. This is all education that you can gain by attending classes with an appraisal organization. Reputable appraisal organizations have what we call principles of value. They teach classes on writing appraisal reports for different reasons. You also need to have a solid foundation in jewelry history. Unfortunately, there's no one path to gaining education in jewelry history. It's something that you acquire through various appraisal conferences and appraisal organizations. It is ongoing. I myself found that there was a serious need for education in...
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Episode 217 Part 2: Cara Croninger’s Creativity Lives on in Her Daughter, Musician Saudia Young
03/01/2024
Episode 217 Part 2: Cara Croninger’s Creativity Lives on in Her Daughter, Musician Saudia Young
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Saudia is preserving her mom Cara Croninger’s legacy Why Cara Croninger’s resin and plastic jewelry was—and still is—groundbreaking How Cara Croninger refined her jewelry making process, and why she didn’t want her pieces to be perfect What it was like to grow up in an artistic family in the heyday of New York’s art jewelry scene How Saudia’s mom and dad influenced her music career today About Saudia Young Saudia Young is a New York City-born actress/singer and storyteller in theater and film. Born on the Lower East Side and brought up between Tribeca and LA, Young explores the notion of home, love, justice, and identity through her art. The recently repatriated artist lived in Berlin, Germany, for a long chapter of performing, writing, and producing. The Ameripolitan Awards 2023 Female Rockabilly Singer nominee released her 7" single ‘Noir Rockabilly Blues,’ produced by Lars Vegas-DE and featuring 'The Wobble' on the A and Iggy Pop’s 'Lust for Life' on the B side, in 2017, followed up by her 12” debut ‘Unlovable’ in 2018. The LP was recorded live at Berlin, Germany’s legendary Lightning Recorders. Young founded a Dark Kabarett and a Rockabilly Noir Blues band in Berlin, co-created the Lost Cabaret and the Schwarze Liste Kabarett theater projects and wrote and produced the award-winning short film The Gallery. While in Berlin, she was cast in the lead voice-over role of Oskar in School for Vampires (the English version of the Hahn Film cartoon series). Young co-wrote and performed the solo show Sneaker Revolution and is currently writing a theater/film piece about her actor father, Otis Young, and sculptor/designer mom Cara Croninger. Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Transcript: To jewelry lovers, Cara Croninger was a groundbreaking artist whose work was shown at iconic galleries Artwear and Sculpture to Wear. To musician and actress Saudia Young, she was just mom. Today, Saudia is working to preserve her mother’s legacy and secure her place in art jewelry history. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Cara made her pioneering resin jewelry; how Cara’s work evolved with the times; and why Saudia thinks of her mom every time she performs. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, we’re speaking to my guest, Saudia Young, who is located in Philadelphia. She has an interesting background. Her mother was a very well-known jeweler, and her father was an actor. She was born in New York and grew up between New York and Los Angeles. Welcome back. Were you aware she was doing this? Were you aware that she went to different galleries, that she didn’t have a sales rep when you were growing up? Were you aware of this? Saudia: Yeah, of course. There was one point in the 90s where she had a showroom. Tony Goldman and Janet Goldman had a showroom called Fragments, and she was in the showroom for some years. She had different reps throughout her life. Ten Thousand Things was a store. They still exist, and they have incredibly beautiful work. For a while in the Meatpacking District, they had a nice cadre of artists, and my mom was one of the artists. They also did wholesale for her. So, they represented her work to other people. Sharon: I have a few pieces, just a smattering, but do you have a lot of her work? Do you have an archive of her work? Saudia: Oh, yeah. That’s part of what I’ve been dealing with. My sister and I have our own personal collections. Throughout the years, my mom collected the best pieces of each group and gave us our personal collections. Then I have basically all the work she left behind when she passed away. I’ve been trying to organize that. There was a big section of it shown at the Aspen Art Museum two years ago for about a year. Jonathan Burger had a show called The Store. My mom’s jewelry and sculptures were in one show. That was really exciting, to have both together. Actually, 14 small sculptures sold during that show and, fingers crossed, about seven pieces will be donated to an institution. I’m not going to say which one. That takes a long time. Right now, there are pieces that are actively being sold. Lisa Berman—not a family member, just the same last name—from Sculpture to Wear sold some of my mom’s work at her first gallery. She also helped sell some pieces when I came out and was trying to figure out what to do and how to secure the legacy, meaning literally a storage space to hold everything. It's a big responsibility. Sharon: You’re referring to Lisa Berman. Saudia: Yeah, who is not your blood relation but of the same name. Obviously, she introduced us and was part of the first interview. She’s consulted with me. She’s another one of the angels. There’s a whole host of people who are still in awe of my mom’s work and in support and cheerleading. It includes Robert Lee Morris. I’m still trying to figure out what to do with the work to secure the legacy. It is being sold at Studio Hop in Providence, Rhode Island. That’s introducing the work to some people who have not seen it before. It's introducing it to a new audience, which is really nice. Jussara Lee, who used to sell it in Manhattan and is now in Connecticut, has been selling it. Other than that, I have an Artwork Archive website for her so people can see the work. I’m not selling it from that website, but there is a section of it that’s still being sold. Then there’s a section I’m holding in case I can get it accepted into an institution. Sharon: I remember a few years ago, I fell in love with a bracelet and I didn’t end up getting it. I think it was the first time I ever heard of her, and I thought it was so neat. Saudia: Yeah, it sold a lot of work. They stopped selling after she passed away. They also had a hard time. Everybody is just recovering now from Covid. A lot of people had a very hard time in the past few years. Some stores closed and sales went down. There were several stores who were carrying her work who have closed since Covid. Sharon: What did you do to make it through Covid and to have money come in? Saudia: I cried. I don’t know. I did whatever I could. I was going back and forth between Germany and here. There was a grant in Germany—actually, it wasn’t a grant; it was a loan—but there was a Covid loan they were giving to artists in Germany. Here, I went on unemployment for a while and then I went off it, whatever I could. We all did what we could to survive. Sharon: That’s very true. I know there were different things we had to do. I agree with you that people are just coming out of it now. Saudia: And now we have two wars, so it’s like, “Great, thank you.” Can’t catch a break. Sharon: Which is worse? I don’t know. I guess if you’re in the field over there, it’s worse. Saudia: Yeah. Sharon: A lot worse. How does it feel to have a mother who’s mentioned by people you don’t know? You say you’re the daughter and all of a sudden, they say, “Oh, I love your mom,” or “I love her jewelry.” Saudia: What do you mean? How does it feel? Sharon: Yeah. If I said, “Oh, I have a really neat bracelet,” and the person says, “I’ve not heard of that person,” how does it feel? Saudia: First of all, a young man—he’s probably my age. It’s so funny I still think of myself as a teenager. Timothy Reukauf is a stylist. He’s another angel who introduced me to the manager and owner of Screaming Mimis Vintage clothing and jewelry store in New York. When I brought the work, because they brought the work to a vintage show, and they’re showing the work and trying to sell it, she was so enthusiastic and happy and excited. It was nice because it’s an extension of my mom, and I miss my mom. I feel like it’s that, as opposed to anything ego-based. It’s more emotional—now you’re going to get me emotional. But it’s nice to know because I really miss her, and when I hear people loving her work, it’s heartening. It’s heart filling. Sharon: That’s a good word, heart-filling. I’ve heard different things. It’s Croninger with a hard g. I’ve heard that as Croninger with a soft g. Which one is it? Saudia: Oh lord, that’s a good one. It’s Cara Croninger with a hard g, but people have called her Croninger with a soft g. People have called her Cara. She’s even called herself Cara, but it’s Cara Lee. Her Michigan name was Cara Lee Croninger, but it depends on who you are. Are you Dutch? Are you German? Are you from New Jersey? Sharon: Did she support your career as an artist? Saudia: Do you mean my dreaming? Yeah, she supported me being a dreaming, silly person, definitely. She put me in dance school. She always thought I should be a painter, actually. She’d say, “You should be a painter,” because I had a natural ability to draw and to work with my hands. After being a child laborer with her, I could make things. But all jokes aside, she was very supportive of me being an artist or whatever it was that I wanted to be, political activist or artist. My sister was an architect. She was very supportive of that. She was beloved by a lot of the young artists who were around Dumbo, our friends, our extended family. She was a positive influence, a positive auntie, elder, second mom, to a lot of people. Sharon: It sounds like it. Saudia: Yeah. I shared her as a mom figure with a lot of people. Sharon: Tell us more about your singing. Do you think of her when you sing? Saudia: Yeah, I think of her with whatever I do, for sure. There’s one song—I think you wrote it down on the question list—It Don’t Mean a Thing (If It Ain’t Got that Swing), doo wop, doo wop, doo wop, doo wop. I think it was Louis Armstrong. She was working on some kind of saying or branding because she was really into the earrings having a nice swing. She coined it when I was helping her make them. The holes had to be big enough so the lyre could be comfortable enough so the earrings could swing. She incorporated that into some of her branding. But yeah, I listened to a lot of music growing up. She was very into Judy Collins and Kurt Weill, a wild range. She dated one of the Clancy Brothers—they were very into folk music in the 60s—and my dad and her were into soul and Otis Redding and Taj Mahal and Bonnie Raitt. I’m wandering, but yes. Sharon: What years was she most popular? It seems like she had a real high. Saudia: I think the 80s. The minute she started doing the resin stuff, she went into Sculpture to Wear, which was a very prestigious gallery. I’d say the early 70s through the 80s. Then Artwear closed and she was on her own. She did really well in the 90s as well. She was pretty prolific, but I think the 80s were the time when there were tons and tons of fashion articles and fashion shoots with all the supermodels of that time. Sharon: Talk about wandering, because I’m looking at my list of questions. Tell us how you were involved in making her jewelry. You told us a little bit, but did you ever cut the hearts? Saudia: The hearts were made in molds. She created molds and poured, and then we would open the rubber molds. I would help sand. I would help drill holes. I can drill a hole. I would help with polishing. Like I said, I would help with finishing work and stringing cords on the hearts. Trying to influence her businesswise, she was not having it. Sharon: Would she say, “That color doesn’t look better in the green. It looks better in the purple,” or something that? Saudia: No, not really because once something is poured, it’s a done deal. That would be like, after you’ve made 500 brownies, saying, “I wish we had blueberry muffins.” It’s too late now. Sharon: She could say, “Well, you can have it then, and I’ll try and sell the purple one,” or something. Saudia: No, the work was too labor-intensive. Once things were made, you really needed to get them out there. They were like donuts in a way. You need to get them out so they don’t go stale. Keep the energy, keep them moving. The only thing she was conflicted about was pricing. There was a point in jewelry where everything—remember when the Y necklaces came out? Everything was really tiny. There was a point where it was trendy to have really tiny jewelry, and that freaked her out because her work was so big and sculptural. She would get freaked out about that kind of stuff. The editors loved her work because it was big and you could see it. It went incredibly with beautiful clothes like Issey Miyake and these avant garde designers. The tiny stuff, you can’t see it in an editorial. It’s so funny; you’ll have a cover article and it’ll be like, “Earrings by whomever,” and I’m like, “Where are they? What earrings?” Sharon: That’s interesting. Miyake or Yohji Yamamoto, they’re high-end, but they’ve become very—they’re not that valued anymore. Saudia: Now they’re mainstream, yeah. Sharon: Do you think your mother’s jewelry would be considered avant garde today? Saudia: Yeah, it still is in a way because of the designs and the fact that it was really handmade. She was making her own work. Maybe Lisa would call that studio jewelry. She was in her studio making it herself. She did have a short relationship with a company in Japan where they were making work that would only be sold there. It was fine, but you could really see the difference and feel the difference. It wasn’t Cara. It wasn’t special, unfortunately. We’re grateful that they did it, that she had that relationship and that we could go to Japan and travel there. That was awesome. So, I think she was avant garde as an artist. I don’t agree that Yohji is no longer avant garde. His designs are so beautiful. He’s really focused on craftsmanship, having amazing makers creating his work. In a way that is avant garde, as opposed to crap being made. You know what I mean? Sharon: You’re right, 100%. Saudia: In a factory. Sharon: I can’t think of another one, but there are a lot of designers whose work you can’t afford—I’m talking about clothing—who have developed their own less expensive lines. Saudia: Yeah. I remember when they would call it the junior line, and it would be for the younger kids. It would be lighter and cheaper and faster and funnier and all that. Now there are lots of layers of that, but you have these throwaway clothes being made by companies like H&M and so forth. Sharon: Do you think she would fit in, like she’d make a smaller version of something that she made large? Saudia: She did do some smaller things when she was working with the Japanese company. That led her into making some tiny silver hearts and medium-size silver. Then she had to do her big pieces. She could not let go of her love affair with big, sculptural pieces. I think she was conflicted about the McDonaldizing of fashion and accessories. Of course, she wanted to put food on the table, but she was really conscious of the environment. Even though she was working in plastics, she was very conscious of workers and workers’ rights. Where does something come from? How is it made, and what’s the impact of it being made? Sharon: It sounds like she carried that through the 80s, into the 90s, into today. Saudia: Definitely. She definitely had something to do with me being political, her and my father. She was very righteous. Sharon: I know you do cabaret and rockabilly. What else do you do? What do you sing? Saudia: My main focus is mental health. It’s a really hard time right now, I feel, but I think it’s actually a good time to continue to do the rockabilly, but to circle back to the dark cabaret I was doing before the rockabilly. So, I’m working on that. I’m working with a few musicians here in Philly, and I have some shows with musicians in other parts of the country. For Thanksgiving, I’m going to be in Illinois with Patrick Jones and 3 On The Tree. It’s a band. We’re going to do a rockabilly Thanksgiving tour. Then in March, I’ll be in California, in Orange County. Sharon: Doing what? Saudia: Doing rockabilly with The Hi-Jivers and Abby Girl. In Orange County, we’re going to do just a rockabilly R&B show. Then in April, I’ll be with Viva Las Vegas again, which is a rockabilly weekend. I’ll do an R&B show and rockabilly. In between, I’m just trying to stay sane, make a living, take care of my mom’s work, tell her story. I’m supposedly writing a story about my mom and my dad, sort of a solo show. I don’t know if it’s a solo show or a documentary, but it’s about their relationship as an interracial couple in the 60s and an interracial artist couple. Sharon: That’ll be very interesting Saudia: They were both known as being difficult people, but most artists are in a way. It takes a lot of energy to do that work, so you can ruffle a lot of feathers. So, that’s what I’m doing. Sharon: I hope I’ll get to meet you then. Thank you so much. This was very interesting. Saudia: Thank you so much. Sharon: Thank you. Well will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey. She would always think about, “What am I going to pour?” It might be a ruby red, which was really popular and beautiful. One of the most popular pours, I think I said in the last interview, was the black and white, where she would have black and white and it would come out in a striped formation. Then she would pour into her different molds, the bangles, the C cuffs, the earrings. Just as important as the colors were the processes. For the slice earrings, she would pour the layers so it would be striped into a block like a loaf of bread, a small, little, long brownie. Then she would slice it on a bandsaw and you would get to see the stripes. Part of her process was the actual cutting, carving, sanding to get the shapes, and then making the decision whether she was going to have them polished or matte without polish. Sharon: A mask? Saudia: Matte, sorry. What the finish would be. If she had faceted bangles or hearts or whatever, she was very aware of not making anything perfect. She used the fact that it had scratches to show the layers of work and to show that it’s made by a human. It wasn’t something that needed to be absolutely perfect. She was very into wabi sabi, the Japanese art of the imperfect. She loved wavy shapes and asymmetry in her designs. Sharon: Who did the selling for the first years, when you were getting it off the ground? Saudia: I was a kid, so I wasn’t going to get it off the ground. I was just eating the food she was putting in the refrigerator. When she first started with the leatherwork, she was just going around to different boutiques in the Village or whatever and selling them, either having them buy it straight out or on consignment. I think one of the worker’s galleries was the original Sculpture to Wear. That was near where MAD Museum is right now. I’m forgetting the name of the hotel. That was one of her galleries. I’m sure there were other stores I don’t know about....
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Episode 217 Part 1: Cara Croninger’s Creativity Lives on in Her Daughter, Musician Saudia Young
02/28/2024
Episode 217 Part 1: Cara Croninger’s Creativity Lives on in Her Daughter, Musician Saudia Young
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Saudia is preserving her mom Cara Croninger’s legacy Why Cara Croninger’s resin and plastic jewelry was—and still is—groundbreaking How Cara Croninger refined her jewelry making process, and why she didn’t want her pieces to be perfect What it was like to grow up in an artistic family in the heyday of New York’s art jewelry scene How Saudia’s mom and dad influenced her music career today About Saudia Young Saudia Young is a New York City-born actress/singer and storyteller in theater and film. Born on the Lower East Side and brought up between Tribeca and LA, Young explores the notion of home, love, justice, and identity through her art. The recently repatriated artist lived in Berlin, Germany, for a long chapter of performing, writing, and producing. The Ameripolitan Awards 2023 Female Rockabilly Singer nominee released her 7" single ‘Noir Rockabilly Blues,’ produced by Lars Vegas-DE and featuring 'The Wobble' on the A and Iggy Pop’s 'Lust for Life' on the B side, in 2017, followed up by her 12” debut ‘Unlovable’ in 2018. The LP was recorded live at Berlin, Germany’s legendary Lightning Recorders. Young founded a Dark Kabarett and a Rockabilly Noir Blues band in Berlin, co-created the Lost Cabaret and the Schwarze Liste Kabarett theater projects and wrote and produced the award-winning short film The Gallery. While in Berlin, she was cast in the lead voice-over role of Oskar in School for Vampires (the English version of the Hahn Film cartoon series). Young co-wrote and performed the solo show Sneaker Revolution and is currently writing a theater/film piece about her actor father, Otis Young, and sculptor/designer mom Cara Croninger. Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Additional Resources: Transcript: To jewelry lovers, Cara Croninger was a groundbreaking artist whose work was shown at iconic galleries Artwear and Sculpture to Wear. To musician and actress Saudia Young, she was just mom. Today, Saudia is working to preserve her mother’s legacy and secure her place in art jewelry history. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how Cara made her pioneering resin jewelry; how Cara’s work evolved with the times; and why Saudia thinks of her mom every time she performs. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week. Today, we’re speaking to my guest, Saudia Young, who is located in Philadelphia. She has an interesting background. Her mother was a very well-known jeweler, and her father was an actor. She was born in New York and grew up between New York and Los Angeles. She is New York material. You will be surprised to hear that she developed a career as an actress, a writer and a singer. She’s described as having a whisky voice, and I think that’s true, a caramel whisky voice. She was a nominee in 2023. Saudia: Thank you so much for having me. I’m really glad to come on to your show for the second time. It was the Ameripolitan Music Awards. I was simply nominated for female rockabilly singer. There are lots of different categories and full bands. Jane Rose won for the rockabilly female singer that year. They’re moving on, but it was very exciting to come after 15 years in Germany to participate in that. I’ve met a lot of awesome people because of that. Sharon: I know you’ve lived in several places, but I didn’t know for 15 years, you say, in Berlin? Saudia: Yes. Sharon: Wow! Now you’re in Philadelphia this evening. Saudia: Yes. Sharon: Is that your home? Saudia: It is for now. It’s where my sister lives. I have a sister from my mother and my father. He had other children, so that’s why I clarify that. I’m spending some time with my sister. I’ve been back and forth in the States since my mom passed in 2019. I’m honestly trying to figure out where I’m going to live. It’s not clear because of Covid and my mom passing, but it’s been a lot. Sharon: 15 years being in one place. Saudia: Yeah, so I’m here for now. I feel like I can’t commit to saying this is my home. It’s like, “Let’s see what it brings. Let’s see what happens.” It’s great to hang out with my sister. I’m close to my mom’s work, which is stored now in Hackensack, New Jersey. I moved it from New York. My mom’s work has had more of a tour than I have. Sharon: Cara Croninger is your mom’s name. Even though she passed—I’m very sorry to hear that—she’s still very well-known. She has an exhibit in the Smithsonian? Saudia: No, it’s simply her papers, photographs, articles, fashion editorials. As you know, she bridged fashion and art. She was in both worlds. She had a toe or a foot or whatever in both worlds, so she has been accepted into the Archives of American Art at the Smithsonian. That means they have letters, her correspondence to other artists and gallerists and whomever, any type of reviews, sketches, all her boxes of papers and some photographs. It’s an honor. It was sad to let that go, but it’s also awesome because that means it’s helping to secure her legacy. It will eventually be uploaded digitally so people will be able to look at it. You can go into the archives and look up different artists and see their papers. For example, one of my favorite things were letters from Floriana Frassetto, who founded Mummenschanz and was one of her best friends. She always wrote these beautiful letters to her. She would call her Cara Mia. She was Swiss-Italian. So, it’s just that, showing the ephemeral items in her life. Sharon: You’ve been on this program before. You were among our first guests— Saudia: Yeah. Sharon: If you want to listen to it, it’s on TheJewelryJourney.com. We’re so glad to have you back again. Saudia: Thank you. Sharon: Tell me why your mom’s jewelry was different. What was the breakthrough? Why are they keeping her papers? Saudia: I think because of that bridge. She wasn’t craft. She came as a sculptor. Her jewelry was made of acrylic and polyester resin, although she did work in other materials like metals. She started off painting, but the work was always very sculptural and almost avant garde. It went from very organic and indigenous and African influenced to futuristic. It was solidly in the art world, but also solidly in the fashion world when she was with Robert Lee Morris’ gallery, Artwear, and before that, Sculpture to Wear. Artwear blew up and it was very, very popular in the press and in fashion magazines. All the top models were wearing it. People like Iman would come to the gallery openings. It was part of that whole exciting time in the 80s in New York, seeping a little bit into the 90s, but mostly in the 80s. It was in the late 70s and throughout the 80s that they had their heyday. There were other artists in this gallery that are now working and very well-known, like Ted Muehling, Robert Lee Morris himself. Carol Motty, may she rest in peace, was a very, very good friend of my mom. She worked in silicone. Sharon: I’m sorry. I don’t know her. Saudia: Carol Motty. She did wild, neon-colored, awesome pieces in silicone rubber. She was unique in that it literally was a bridge of art and fashion. That’s what she built. I think that was her significance. In terms of the materials, the pieces cost anywhere from $40 to $4,000 or more. She raised the level of this material, which is plastic resin and acrylic, polyester resin, to a very high level. It would get the same price that silver and gold and gemstone jewels would get because of the beauty, the workmanship, that she put into it. The work is known for having this sensual beauty. A lot of the pieces have a wonderful weight. They have a talisman magic to them. People often will collect the pieces. You even collected some pieces. Sharon: Yeah, I did. I love them. Saudia: It’s kind of magic. She herself as a person was a beautiful, down-to-earth, but funny and effervescent person. People loved meeting her. They loved collecting the work. Sharon: What was the role you and your sister played? Saudia: We were her daughters. We did help make work. There were points where we learned how to do the finishing work. We never did the pouring, creating the pigments or the molds, but we could help with finishing. We’d be her child laborers and work on the sanding machine or polishing or drilling holes or what have you. We were able to do finishing work. Because we grew up with it, we understood the shapes and her style, but even growing up with it, there was always some kind of tension. She would say, “That’s your style. That’s not mine.” It wasn’t easy because it was so organic and very unique. That made it hard for her to have people work for her. Sharon: When you would attend these parties or an opening night at the galleries, did you know who the celebrities of the day were? Were you aware? Saudia: Yeah, I was in my early 20s or so. At one point, my sister and I both worked at Artwear. We were both looking forward to working with Robert. That was always really fun. Even the artists were celebrities to us because they were so talented and vivacious and positive. I knew a lot of the models, the supermodels, Pat Cleveland and whomever, but since my dad was an actor, I grew up already having certain people in my life. I was trained for that to be not that big of a deal because I just grew up in that. When my parents met, they were in the Village in the 60s. James Baldwin was a good friend of my dad, and he was allegedly my godfather. It was a smaller world in a way. Definitely, the 60s and even the 80s feel like a more innocent time than now for some reason. I met different celebrities just on my own, and you felt like they were New Yorkers. I knew Jean-Michel Basquiat and I was like, “He’s just a kid.” I had no clue. Sharon: Wow! So, this wasn’t a new milieu to you. You knew the big names—I would call them big names—who would come over for dinner. They were around you. Saudia: Yeah, but it wasn’t—now we’re going back even before Artwear. It was normal to me. I didn’t notice it. It was just part of being a kid in New York, a kid of artists. You know what I mean? Sharon: But your mother was making this jewelry that I would call groundbreaking. Today we look at it and go, “Oh, it’s a piece of plastic,” but it was groundbreaking then. Saudia: Yeah, it was definitely groundbreaking. I think it still is because there are few people who can work in it, like Patricia von Musulin, who’s an amazing artist who works with acrylics. There are some people who can work with it. There’s Alexis Bittar, who borrowed a lot of designs from my mom. There are people who can work with it and it’s beautiful, but often you see stuff that’s mass produced overseas. It doesn’t have a good feeling; it just feels cheap. Her work still has this magic weight to it. But as I said, as kids, we didn’t know. It was just, “My mom’s an artist. She’s working at her studio making her stuff.” Sharon: Was her studio a separate place or was it where you lived? Saudia: She had many different studios. She had a shared space in Gowanus in Brooklyn, a huge foundry that had 80-foot ceilings that she shared with approximately five other artists. Now, I’m jumping back and forth with timelines. I’m not great with timelines. She had a studio in Dumbo, Brooklyn, at 68 Jay, which was a 2,000-square-foot, awesome studio that she lived in illegally. Our formative years when we were little were on the Lower East Side, but we lived in Tribeca when it was still very industrial. We first started off on Washington Street in an apartment. I think it was a three-bedroom apartment that I recently got to visit again, which was amazing. She cordoned off a little section of that Astor studio, and then what happened? O.K., when we were at Washington Street, she was able to be one of the resident artists in the Clocktower, which was a studio project where Alanna Heiss was organizing unusual spaces for artists to either create their work or show their work. My mom was one of several artists who were in the Clocktower. That’s where she actually met the artist who showed her how to work with plastics. I don’t know what his name was. Sharon: So, she wasn’t working with plastic until she met these people? Saudia: Yeah. She started off painting and doing leatherwork, painting on leather, sewing leather bags, fringe work, Japanese-style obi belts. That’s what she started doing first in terms of accessories and crafts. Sharon: Did your friends know she was a big name, let’s say? Saudia: No, we were all pretty clueless. A lot of our friends were kids of painters. We related to them as workers, like this is what they did for their work. My mom was the lady who made great bread. She made homemade bread, and she made great chicken. People would come over and eat. She was a very social person. We had extended family members, but I don’t think my friends thought of her as that famous, not really. Sharon: I was going to ask you why she wouldn’t let you pour, but that made her work. That’s her name. Saudia: I didn’t have any desire to pour. As a teenagers, at 18? No desire. I was off doing my own thing. I had my own ways of expressing and my own life. That was her thing. Sharon: What colors did she like? I’ve seen some pieces, but I know she had a whole range. Saudia: She worked in an amazing array of colors. She loved vibrant primary colors. She also worked in colors that were more organic, that were reminiscent of ivory or amber. She would do pours. I think we spoke about this. She would do a pour about once a year. It was always a big deal for her to get the emotional wherewithal to do a pour. Also, I think she was aware of the toxicity. She only wanted to pour during the summer, when the windows could be open and the heat would help the plastic pour faster.
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Episode 213: Special Announcement! Article about The Jewelry Journey & Other Jewelry Podcasts by Melanie Abrams released in The New York Times.
01/18/2024
Episode 213: Special Announcement! Article about The Jewelry Journey & Other Jewelry Podcasts by Melanie Abrams released in The New York Times.
Link to article: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey podcast. We are thrilled to announce an article on the Jewelry Journey podcast from writer Melanie Abrams released in the New York Times. The article is linked in the show notes, our website, and even Instagram. So please help us take the jewelry journey even farther by sharing, liking and commenting on the article. Hopefully in the coming months I will have some of the other hosts from the article so that we can learn more about their adoration of adornments. Thank you again for listening.Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 216 Part 2: How Esther De Beaucé Helps Artists Create Their First “Mini Masterpieces”
12/21/2023
Episode 216 Part 2: How Esther De Beaucé Helps Artists Create Their First “Mini Masterpieces”
What you’ll learn in this episode: Why artist jewelry is more than just miniature versions of larger work The history of artist jewelry, and how Esther is helping its story continue How Esther helps artists with their first forays into jewelry, and why making jewelry can be a fruitful challenge for fine artists Why an artist’s first idea for a piece of jewelry is often not their best Why artist jewelry collectors must be brave About Esther de Beaucé Esther de Beaucé is the founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, France. MiniMasterpiece is a gallery entirely dedicated to contemporary artists, designers and architects’ jewelry. The gallery is an invitation given to those who usually never design jewelry because their work evolves on a more monumental scale (i.e. sculptures). Esther’s passion is to convince those artists to change the scale of their work and accompany them in that new field of wearable art. She has collaborated with acclaimed contemporary artists such as Phillip King, Bernar Venet, Andres Serrano, Lee Ufan, Jean-Luc Moulène, and Pablo Reinoso. A graduate of Brown University, Esther previously co-owned the gallery Schirman & de Beaucé in Paris, dedicated to young artists of contemporary art. Photos available on Additional Resources: Transcript: For gallerist Esther de Beaucé, artist jewelry isn’t completely art or completely contemporary jewelry. It’s in a niche all its own—and that’s what makes it fascinating. As founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, she helps fine artists translate their art into jewelry, creating something entirely new rather than a smaller version of their typical work. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she challenges artists to think about their work differently; how interest in artist jewelry has evolved over the years; and why artist jewelry collectors are so open minded. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven't heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. I don't remember how I found out about Esther de Beaucé’s gallery in Paris. It is tucked back in the corner with other galleries. Welcome back. Do you have collectors, people who like a certain artist or piece they've found in your gallery, and then they come back and look for others, or you send them a postcard telling them, “We're having a show of that artist,” or something like that? Esther: Yes. I have shows at the gallery as well, maybe for a year. Most of the time they are solo shows. I like solo shows a lot because it's like for art, when when you have a solo show, you're surrounded by several pieces of work. You are emerging into their body of work. It's more interesting to me than having one piece by that artist and another piece by another artist. I like solo shows a lot, but solo shows are not easy to make because it means that obviously the artist had several ideas. It takes a lot of time to organize a solo show, but I try to make solo shows most of the time. I invite all my collectors to these shows. It's always difficult to know what's going to happen between a collector and a piece of jewelry, what connection is going to operate at that time. Sometimes collectors choose or fall for an object, and they don't know the artist who's behind it, but they really fall for an object. I really like that idea. Sometimes collectors are very close to an artist, and they have several pieces of that artist in their homes. When they realize that artist has also made a piece of jewelry, then of course they're going to be interested in it. Most of the jewels I have at the gallery, I hope they speak for themselves. You were asking me about collectors and jewelry. Sharon: You answered the question. But do have people who only collect, let's say, Pablo Picasso's jewelry or something that? Esther: Yeah, of course. Some women only wear silver or only wear gold or only wear rings or never wear any brooches. I try to remember all that so I can show them what they like. But I also enjoy presenting them with other things, too, because it's always interesting to make discoveries. And the collectors of artist jewelry are very open-minded people. It takes a lot of, I wouldn't say courage, but it takes a lot of personality to wear something that is different from common jewelry. You have to be strong because you're going to attract looks, and sometimes you have to speak about what you're wearing and answer people's reactions. Sometimes other people can be very narrow-minded, and you have to assume what you chose and what you wear on your body. So, this type of collector, they're very interesting to welcome. What I mean is that even though they have their taste, they are easy to counsel as well because they have that curiosity. They want to learn, and they want to see so much. So, they are very interesting people. Sharon: Do they go on to start liking the artist's other things, their paintings or drawings, after they started with the jewelry? Esther: Yes, of course. I have a lot of jewels at the gallery, but I also have a lot of books, and those books help me explain the artist's work at large. Often, when I can, I try to offer a book to accompany the jewel to give them more background on the artist. Yeah, definitely. Sharon: Do you make jewelry yourself? Did you ever make jewelry yourself? Esther: No. Never. Maybe as a kid playing with leaves and flowers, but that's it. Or pasta. Sharon: What did you study? When you were in the States, did you think about opening a gallery in France? Esther: No, I studied anthropology. I really wanted to work as an anthropologist, but it didn't happen. After that first art experience that ended in 2012, I wanted a new project working with artists. I had seen the year before, in 2011, a great artist jewelry show at the MAD in New York. That was actually my mother's collection of artist jewelry. I went to New York for her opening, and it was the first time that I saw her collection in the museum environment, and I was so impressed. I started thinking of a new project for myself, and this show in New York was really—how would you say— Sharon: Eye opening. Esther: That's it. Eye opening and a decision-making moment. And as I came back to Paris, I started really talking about it and organizing my professional life to make it possible. Sharon: That's interesting. When you said your mother was a collector, I thought, “Well, she must have started early, before anybody was wearing it or knew about it.” Today, more and more people know about it, but then she probably didn't have a lot of friends who were collecting the same thing. Esther: Yeah, for sure. That show was 12 years ago, but she started collecting artist jewelry 40 years ago. There are few women in the world who have done the same thing. There are few. It's a large and important collection. She focused on that in a professional way. Sharon: When you said that you thought it was a more active field in the 60s and 70s and then it sort of died down, why do you think that was? Esther: It's a matter of different elements. I think it was in 1969, there was a great show at the MOMA in New York on artist jewelry that’s never happened since. You also had great artists, jewelry editors at that time in Italy. You had GianCarlo Montebello, who was a goldsmith and an editor, and he worked with fantastic artists like Fontana and the Pomodoro brothers. Montebello made fantastic pieces. In the south of France, you had François Hugo, who was a very important goldsmith as well. He's the one who made all the jewelry by Max Ernst and Man Ray and Picasso and Dorothea Tanning. Sometimes it's just a matter of a few people. They really made the artist jewelry world very active at the time, but then they stopped and did something else, so it went quiet again. Hopefully, it's getting more intense now, but you need people behind it. Once these people do something else, then it dies a little bit. And then you have a new generation of editors and it starts again. Sharon: By editor you also mean curator, right? It's a curator. Esther: Also, yeah. By editor I mean what I do personally, but what also has been done by Luisa Guinness or Elisabetta Cipriani or Marina Filippini, those active editors, meaning you invite artists to make jewelry pieces. This is what I called editor. This is what I do. Sharon: Do you only wear art jewelry that you have in your gallery or that an artist has made, or do you wear “normal” jewelry? Esther: It might sound weird to you, but I'm a low-key person. I'm a discreet person. When I'm at the gallery every day, I choose a piece of work and I wear it all day in the gallery with an immense pleasure. But when I go out, when I go to a dinner party or visit a show, I don't wear jewelry. It might sound funny, but I wouldn't want people to think I am always promoting what I do and my work. Imagine a regular art dealer. He wouldn't go to an art fair or to a to a dinner party carrying with him a painting or a sculpture. When I go out wearing a jewel from the gallery, I feel like I'm still working, and I don't like that idea. I don't want people to imagine that I'm always trying to sell jewelry. So, in dinner parties, I'm very often the only woman not wearing any piece of jewelry, which is very stupid. But yeah, this is me. Sharon: That's interesting. Has anybody ever stopped you on the street and said, “That’s a really interesting necklace you have on”? Esther: Yeah, but not very often because when you see me on the street, I don't have it on me. Of course, on special occasions I do, but I mostly wear artist jewelry in the gallery, and it's a great pleasure to do so. I change every day and wear several of them because it's very important for people to see those jewels on the body. A piece of jewelry on the body is very different from a photo of a jewel. You really need to see how it goes on the neck or on the finger. It really makes it alive. So, to see me with artist jewelry, you have to come to the gallery. If you see me on the street, you would not really see any artist jewelry on me. I was telling you about collectors and how they are strong-minded, and I’m probably more shy. Sharon: Well, based on the collection in your gallery, I wouldn't call you shy. I'm curious, when you get dressed in the morning, do you walk to the gallery without anything on and then you put something on when you come to the gallery? Esther: Well, I have my clothes on, obviously, but I choose clothing that will fit the best with jewelry. I have funny pants and funny shoes, but I always have black or white tops. When you have too much information on a sweater or shirt, sometimes it draws away the attention from the jewel. So, this is something I pay attention to in the morning. This is why I have funny shoes but not funny outfits too much. Sharon: How do you describe what you do if somebody says, “Well, what do you do?” when you're at a party? Esther: I have a neighbor who's a great contemporary art gallerist, and he was introducing me to a friend of his a few days ago at an art fair. He said, “This is Esther, and she’s doing the most rare job in the art world.” And I was like, “This is an interesting way of putting what I'm doing.” It's true that I am part of the art scene, yet it's such a tiny niche. This is how he saw and how he described my job. But I would say that what I do is invite those who never make jewelry because they are sculptors, and I ask these people, who are not jewelry specialists, to make a jewelry piece for the gallery. This is how I like to speak of my job. Otherwise, I say that I'm an artist jewelry editor, but then sometimes you have to give more explanations than just those three words. It doesn't explain well enough. So, to make it more clear, I usually say that I invite those who never make jewelry. Sharon: Do you consider yourself part of the art scene or jewelry? Are you part of the art world or the jewelry world? Esther: It’s a tricky question. I'm part of the two, but the artists I work with are not part of the jewelry world. Obviously, they are a part of the art world, and through our collaboration, I bring them to the jewelry world. But I would say I’m maybe 80% from the art world and 20% from the jewelry world. I think artist jewelry is very interesting because it offers a new perspective on jewelry and contemporary jewelry. Because the artists I work with have nothing to do with jewelry, most of the time they're going to bring something new to the jewelry world, new ideas, new possibility. This is what makes it very interesting for the jewelry world. At the same time, I think the invitation I make to those artists is also both a challenge and recreation time. It has to be fun and it has to be, for them, a means to work with new material like silver and gold. It's a new experience for them. The invitation also has to feed them, in the way that it has to bring them something new and challenging. Otherwise, it's not interesting for them. I really try to value that new experience for them. Sharon: That's interesting what you're saying. Do you have to say some of that? Do you have to convince some of the artists that it will be interesting for them? Esther: When I invite them, I say all those things. I don't even wait for them to need me to convince them. I say it all at once, that my invitation is full of all these aspects. Of course, it's going to be difficult for them to find a good idea, yet I'm here to accompany them, and the goldsmiths that I chose and that I work with are extraordinary people. It's a great gift that I give to artists, to be able to work with these people, because they are fantastic goldsmiths and very interesting people to work with. Sharon: Do any of the artists ever call you and say, “Esther, I just don't have an idea. I don't know what to do. I've drawn 14 things, and I just don't like them.” What do you do then? Esther: Yeah, of course. It happens. Sometimes they need a little more time. I don't put any pressure on them. When they're ready, they're ready. Sometimes when they are very focused on an idea that I don't believe too much in, I make a prototype just so that I can show them the prototype and explain to them why I don't think it's strong enough. Sometimes they have to see it for real. This is sometimes something that I do. Okay, you really want to make this? I am going to show you what it looks like, and then we can continue our conversation. Sharon: Did you ever consider, before you started this or when you were thinking about what to do after the other gallery, did you think about selling a different kind of jewelry? Esther: No, I'm very busy with the jewels already. There are many contemporary jewelers that come to me, and sometimes I really fall for their work because there are many great contemporary jewelers. But I try to restrain myself. Sometimes I buy a piece for my own pleasure. But the gallery’s story is something different, and I try to remain on that path because there is still a lot to do on it. I want to focus on that story for now. Sharon: So, you're saying if somebody comes in and shows you something that you don’t think is on the path, let’s say, you might buy it for yourself. You might like it. Esther: Of course, it has happened. Yeah, it has happened. But I have to tell you that I spend all my money on producing the artist jewels, because I produce myself. I pay the goldsmith who's going to work with the artist, so this is taking a lot of the gallery's budget. I don't have that much money left for buying other kinds of jewelry. But it has happened that I do. Sharon: Does the artist sign the piece? Do you both sign it, or do you sign it? Esther: No, no, no, I never sign. It's the artist's signature on it, of course. On certificates, I just add that it has been edited by Galerie MiniMasterpiece. Sharon: How did you come up with the name of the gallery, MiniMasterpiece? Esther: It was a conversation with my mother and my stepfather. We were looking for a name, and we wanted it to be linked to the art world more than the jewelry world. MiniMasterpiece is not a bad name. It is a reference to masterpieces, so to art. It has the mini, obviously, so it's a small work of art. But who knows? Maybe in the future I will find another name. But for now, it's this one. Sharon: It's a great name. I was just wondering how you came up with it. Mini seems very American, or very English and not very French. That's all. That’s why I'm asking. Esther: Actually, masterpiece is obviously an English name, because we would say in French chef-d'œuvre. But mini is something that is used in French also. Sharon: Okay. So, the contemporary jewelry. I might do really interesting contemporary jewelry. I don't, but let's say I do, but I don't do pictures and drawings. Esther: Well, then you're not really what I'm interested in, because I like the idea that there is a movement from another body of work, and a movement from that body of work to jewelry. I like working with non-specialists. I think it makes projects very interesting. To me, this is the story I want to tell, those rare moments when a piece of jewelry is going to be possible for those artists. It's not their specialty. They're not doing this all the time. It remains rare. It's just from time to time. I like that idea. Sharon: Have they come to you and said, “I want to put gems in this piece,” or has an artist who's making the jewelry said, “I want to put gems”? Esther: No, very, very rarely because to them, gems are very linked to classic jewelry, to contemporary jewelry, and they don't want to use the same vocabulary. They are more into material and shapes and volumes than in gems. Sharon: Have you ever had the artists come in and describe their work? Do the artists come to the solo shows that you have and describe the work they do? Esther: Yeah, during the opening, of course all artists are present. Or if we make a special appointments, of course. Sharon: So, the artist says, “Yes, I want to make the jewelry for you.” What's the next step? Esther: The next step is them finding the good idea. Once they have ideas, we start the conversation and we discuss what's feasible, what's not feasible. We keep a few ideas, and then we go to the goldsmith and we discuss with them what's possible. Slowly it builds up. The first thing is the idea. Sharon: You come to the goldsmith or silversmith to say, “The artist is thinking about doing a loop. Can you do that?” Esther: No, we go to the goldsmith with a prototype or a maquette. The piece is there already. It's not in silver, it's not in gold, but it exists. Sharon: Do they ever look at you in surprise, the goldsmith? Esther: Yes, obviously, but after 12 years, less and less. They're like, “It's going to be very difficult, but it's going to work out.” They are less and less surprised. They know me now, and they know the artist. Sharon: A few last stray questions. Did you open in the courtyard where you are? Did you open the gallery where you are? Have you moved locations? Esther: No, I have been here the whole time. Sharon: And what would you say keeps your attention about jewelry, or artist jewelry, after doing it for so long? Esther: I think my motivation and my love is still very strong, and maybe stronger and stronger because the artists themselves have new ideas very often. So, the story continues, and I also invite new artists. I have all these parallel collaborations, so it's very enriching for me. Also, the relationship I have with collectors is very nice and very interesting because I am also...
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Episode 216 Part 1: How Esther De Beaucé Helps Artists Create Their First “Mini Masterpieces”
12/19/2023
Episode 216 Part 1: How Esther De Beaucé Helps Artists Create Their First “Mini Masterpieces”
What you’ll learn in this episode: Why artist jewelry is more than just miniature versions of larger work The history of artist jewelry, and how Esther is helping its story continue How Esther helps artists with their first forays into jewelry, and why making jewelry can be a fruitful challenge for fine artists Why an artist’s first idea for a piece of jewelry is often not their best Why artist jewelry collectors must be brave About Esther de Beaucé Esther de Beaucé is the founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, France. MiniMasterpiece is a gallery entirely dedicated to contemporary artists, designers and architects’ jewelry. The gallery is an invitation given to those who usually never design jewelry because their work evolves on a more monumental scale (i.e. sculptures). Esther’s passion is to convince those artists to change the scale of their work and accompany them in that new field of wearable art. She has collaborated with acclaimed contemporary artists such as Phillip King, Bernar Venet, Andres Serrano, Lee Ufan, Jean-Luc Moulène, and Pablo Reinoso. A graduate of Brown University, Esther previously co-owned the gallery Schirman & de Beaucé in Paris, dedicated to young artists of contemporary art. Photos available on Additional Resources: Transcript: For gallerist Esther de Beaucé, artist jewelry isn’t completely art or completely contemporary jewelry. It’s in a niche all its own—and that’s what makes it fascinating. As founder and owner of Galerie MiniMasterpiece in Paris, she helps fine artists translate their art into jewelry, creating something entirely new rather than a smaller version of their typical work. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she challenges artists to think about their work differently; how interest in artist jewelry has evolved over the years; and why artist jewelry collectors are so open minded. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Welcome to the Jewelry Journey, exploring the hidden world of art around you. Because every piece of art has a story, and jewelry is no exception. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it's released later this week. I don't remember how I found out about Esther de Beaucé’s gallery in Paris. It is tucked back in the corner with other galleries. I don't know, unless you are looking for it, if you would find it easily. It was an intentional destination for me both times I've been there. It is very hard to find. I was determined that I was going to find it, and after a little bit of time I did find it. It is a very cozy and comfortable gallery, and Esther herself is easy to talk to. The gallery specializes in jewelry designed by artists. Some are French, some are Italian, and I'm sure there are others. The prices are very reasonable compared with other shops with jewelry by artists where you find a pretentious atmosphere. Esther speaks English flawlessly, having attended Brown College, and she has been on the podcast before, many moons ago. I'll let her tell you the rest of the story. Esther, welcome to the program. Esther: Hello, Sharon. Thank you for having me today. Sharon: I'm so glad to have you. So, why did you choose to sell jewelry by artists? Esther: I wanted to work with artists, contemporary artists, because before MiniMasterpiece, I had a first gallery also in Paris, working with young artists on paintings and sculptures and drawings. That gallery had to end, and my obsession was continuing working with artists because I really enjoyed that, that work, but I had to find another way. There are many art galleries in Paris, and I wanted to find a more special way to work with them. I knew of artist jewelry, and there aren’t many places in the world and in Paris, either, for artist jewelry. So, this is how I started. Sorry, I think I said enough. Sharon: No, please, go ahead. Esther: So, at first, it was more for the pleasure of working with artists than that of making jewelry. After 12 years, I became very fond of jewelry, of course. I wouldn't say exactly the same thing, but back in time, 12 years ago, it was really my love for artists. Sharon: It was your love for artists. How was it changing from the drawings and the paintings and all of that to jewelry? Was it natural? Was it different? Esther: Yeah, it's a challenge for them, of course, when I invite them to think of their work at a different scale. They have to think of the body, which most of the time they never do because when you make a sculpture or a painting or a photograph, obviously it's not to be worn. But this time it was a big challenge for them and also for me, because 12 years ago I knew little about jewelry making itself. We both had to learn. It was a challenge for them, and it was also a challenge for me. But I knew that it was possible because it's a story that goes back in time for about a century now, with Picasso and Calder and Giacometti, all those great visual artists who made a few wearable art pieces on the side of their main activity. Sharon: Was it scary for you to start asking artists if they would do their jewelry, if they would make jewelry? Esther: I started asking those artists I knew personally because they were family friends, or I had worked with them in the past with that former gallery I had. So, I didn't take many risks the first year. Then I got more brave and I started to ask other artists. I only ask those artists where I like the work. I am a big fan of their monumental work. They are mostly sculptors. It's because I like their sculpture, but I think of inviting them to make a sculpture to wear. Sharon: Do they look at you funny, like, “What are you talking about?” Or, “I don't understand what you mean”? Esther: Most of them understand the idea. I've had several artists say no, but not that many. Sometimes they even thought about making a jewelry piece but never had the occasion to do so because they need to be surrounded by the good people. Very often they need to be accompanied by a goldsmith because they haven’t mastered the work of gold or silver, so they need help on that matter. But once you invite them and tell them about that great story and how many artists have worked on that subject in the past, and that you can take them to the right goldsmiths that can help them understand their project, then it's much easier for them to accept. Sharon: And have they ever rejected you and just said, “Forget it. That's weird”? Esther: Yeah, of course they have. Sometimes it's because they don't get a good idea. Finding the right idea is not that easy. Sometimes they don't have time. Sometimes it's not a good time for them to spend some energy on that project. And of course, I understand that perfectly. In very, very, very few cases, sometimes they don't take jewelry very seriously. They have that image of jewelry being something not serious. But there are many artists I can invite, and those who don't want to play with me, it's no big deal. Sharon: Do you leave it to them to decide if it's a bracelet or a ring or a necklace or what they're going to make? Esther: Yes, of course. I open possibilities for them as wide as they want at the beginning. Then once they have ideas, we talk. Once it gets more precise, if they are going to make only one piece of jewelry, sometimes I advise them to think of a ring or a necklace because they are the most iconic type of jewels. If they have several ideas, then why not add a bracelet or earrings? But if they have to make only one, I usually recommend them to make a necklace. Also, because a necklace leaves more volume and space for them to express themselves. Sometimes it's very difficult for them to condense their work into a very tiny piece. A necklace is bigger. Sharon: What do you say to them if they say, “Esther, I'm a sculptor. I don't know how to make this small”? What do you say? Esther: I say that what I'm interested in is the DNA of their work. An idea has no size. Basically, it would be the same as making a very large sculpture. But when they are invited by a museum or a gallery, they are given a space to make. Sometimes they make a sculpture especially for that space, a museum or a gallery. I just tell them, “Well, this time you have to make a piece of a sculpture for the body.” It is just another way of thinking, and artists like to be challenged. It's a very big challenge for them, but they are very often excited by that challenge. Sharon: Are they doing other things? Are they making the jewelry for your gallery, and they’re working on a sculpture or painting at the same time? It might be a different subject, but I'm wondering. Esther: Yes. I think they're on different topics at the same time. Also, when they have to think of making a wearable sculpture, sometimes it helps them to think of a new idea for a monumental work. This is something they have said to me on various occasions, that going from big to small and then back to big is also interesting for them. Sometimes it has an impact on how they think big afterwards. Sharon: You're located in the antique district in Paris, right? Esther: Yes. Not only antiques. It's called the Carré Rive Gauche. It's a very special geography because it's like a square with about six streets. It's very unique in the world because in that square you have about 120 galleries and antique shops of different specialties. You have contemporary art, you have antiques, you have Chinese art, African art, glass works, silver works. It's very unique to have such a strong—how would you say that—density of art shops. It’s not like—you know the Marais? The Marais is another district that is very focused on contemporary design and contemporary art. Carré Rive Gauche and Saint-Germain-des-Prés reunites a wider range of art galleries, and I really like that mix. I feel very comfortable in that. It's a very enriching environment. Sharon: From the beginning did you know that was where you wanted to be? Esther: Yes, because it's the neighborhood where I grew up, and I'd never had a professional project in that area. And it’s a lovely neighborhood. I love it. A lot of tourists as well still go to Saint-Germain-des-Prés. There aren't many places for rent, and sometimes they are very expensive. This is also why I'm in a courtyard, where you have to find your way through. But once you've been here for the first time, then it's easy to come back. There are many courtyards like this in Paris, and it's also the Parisian charm of finding the remote places. I like that idea. Sharon: It is very charming, and the Parisian charm is both in your gallery and the courtyard around it. Do you get people stumbling in? Tourists or French people who are just wandering around who find the gallery? Esther: Yes, of course. I have a sign on the street also. There are actually three different galleries in the courtyard, so we have a sign on the street with the name of the galleries. The large doors are open all day long, and there are many plants. I have random people coming very often, for sure. Sharon: When did you become attracted to jewelry? Esther: As a kid, because my mother is a great collector of artist jewelry, and I learned a lot from her. Since I was a kid, I've seen her wearing those weird pieces of jewelry that were artist jewelry only, no stones, no diamonds, only artist jewelry. That was very different from my friends’ mothers, obviously. So, it was very natural to me, but I never imagined myself being a professional in that area because it was hers. But I found a way of making it mine because she's a collector and I’m an editor. I make new projects. Sometimes when she likes them, she gets them for her collection, but not always. So, I found a way of having my own role in artist jewelry different from hers. But I was really fed by her passion as a kid. Sharon: Did you think you were going to draw or paint professionally? What did you imagine yourself doing? Esther: No, I have no artistic talent myself. I really love working with artists and I'm the person next to them, but I have no desire to create myself. Even after 12 years of MiniMasterpiece, I have no desire to make jewelry myself. Artists come up with such great ideas all the time that I really don't have to think about this myself. But they need me for other things, so I'm happy to take care of all the rest. Sharon: When you say they need you for other things, I was thinking you are creative. You couldn't guide them, right? Esther: Yes, but I don't have the idea. I know how to make their ideas grow and make it possible, but it's really their work. The starting point is their work and their idea. I make it possible after that. Sharon: Who decides if it is going to be a limited edition and there are only a few? Who decides how many there are going to be? Esther: It's a tricky question. I discuss it with the artist, and we take into consideration the costs of their making, obviously. Sometimes it's a series of unique pieces. I've done that on several occasions. So, it's not really an edition; it's a series of 10 unique pieces, for example. Most of the time we make 10 or 12 different numbers of the same piece to stick to what is commonly made in sculptures. So, most of the jewels from the gallery run in an edition of 10 or 12 pieces. Sharon: You started to say that 30, though, is the limit to call it a limited edition, right? Esther: Yes, 30 is the maximum for us to call it an original piece of work. Most of the time after 30, it's not an original piece of work. I don't know how you would call it, but it would be just a regular edition. It's very rare that I go above 30. It has happened in the past, because sometimes museum shops call me for a special edition if they have a show of that artist running and they want to have a piece of jewelry in their shops. This is a very special project for me, and in that case, we make a larger edition. But this is very site specific. Sharon: How do you find the artists? Do you go to parties to look for them? Do you go to galleries? How do you find them? Esther: I go to art shows and exhibitions for the most time. When I find an artist whose work I like very much, then I try to find a way to contact him or her. But the first thing for me is to grasp and understand and like their work. After that, I try to find a possible way to get in contact with them. Sharon: Do they ever approach you first? Esther: Yes, it has happened, of course. There's a great Chinese sculptor in France called Wang Keping, with whom I've had the chance to work for the past four years. I met him at an art fair, and it was a great encounter because he's a fabulous man and a fantastic artist. It was a great, almost random encounter. Sharon: But he came to you. You looked at his work and liked his work, and he came to you? Esther: Yes. I was about to go to him, and then we met and he also wanted to discuss with me. So it was a random encounter, and it ended very well. Sharon: What is the overall state of artist jewelry—well, there are two questions—and art jewelry in France? Esther: What's the difference for you between artist jewelry and art jewelry? Sharon: That's an interesting question. I guess artist jewelry is by somebody who, it isn’t their primary medium. They do painting and sculpture, and once in a while they do a pin or a ring or whatever. And the other is jewelers who do different jewelry. Esther: Yeah. It's their specialty. Making jewelry is their specialty. Sharon: Yes. Esther: So, you would call that art jewelry? Sharon: Yes. Esther: Okay. Sharon: I would call both art jewelry. But the artist jewelry— Esther: Yes. Well, I know of art jewelry, but not as well as artist jewelry, obviously, because only artist jewelry is my specialty. So, I wouldn't be able to speak of art jewelry as well. For artist jewelry, I think it's getting better because there are more editors working on the subject and inviting new artists, so it's more dynamic. It seems that in the 60s and in the 70s, the market for artist jewelry in France and in the world was more dynamic than in the 80s, in the 90s, in the early 2000s. For the past 15 years, maybe, it's getting more dynamic because new editors have started working on the subject. Museum shows have also taken place thanks to great collectors that are organizing shows on their collections. Books also have come out. So, slowly, I think it's getting more dynamic. But still, it's a story that needs to be explained more, and a lot of people don't know about it yet. So, it's also our mission to explain that story and to tell and to show. I think it's also the case for art jewelry. There aren't that many galleries and places in Paris that sell art jewels. I'm looking forward to the years to come because I believe it's going to get more and more dynamic. Sharon: Are the people who come, who assemble on your gallery, are they coming because they think, “Oh, it's jewelry. I want to look at diamonds and pearls,” and you have to explain what it is? Esther: Yes, all the time. All the time. Sometimes I talk for five, 10 minutes explaining the concept of the gallery, and they look at me and say, “Oh, so you are making the jewelry.” And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, no. I’m not making the jewelry. I invite those who never make jewelry, and I ask them for a special project for the gallery. So, it takes a lot of energy explaining. Of course, some people know of that story, so it makes it easier for me. But I also like the challenge of getting that story more well-known and convincing women and men that this is also part of the jewelry world. It's not because the piece of jewelry doesn't have stones or diamonds that it's not worth it. Then we talk about value and what makes a jewel precious or not precious. So, it leads to interesting conversation. But it takes a lot of my time explaining that. Sharon: You said something I have to think about because I'm not sure I’ve thought about it, and that is that artist jewelry is part of the jewelry world. Esther: Of course. Sharon: Yeah. If you had asked me 10 minutes ago, I would have said yes, but I really would have had to think about it. Esther: It’s contemporary jewelry, and contemporary jewelry has different compartments. I don't know how you would say that, but a small part of contemporary jewelry is that of artist jewelry, because it's being made today. So, for me, it's definitely part of it. Sharon: Do you ever have shows, meaning you take your gallery, the artist jewelry, and you cart it somewhere and show it? Do you put it out for people to look at? Esther: You mean outside the gallery? Sharon: Yeah. Esther: Yes. Several times a year I try to be in fairs. I've never shown in a jewelry fair because I've always want to place the jewelry in a design or contemporary art background. So, I always try to show in design or art fairs, which is not always easy because there aren't that many art fairs, for example, that leave space for art jewelry. So, it's a tricky thing for me, to find a good place outside of the gallery to show that kind of jewelry. Although artist jewelry is part of art jewelry and contemporary jewelry at large, it's a bit different. I’m trying to connect it. I want the connection with the art and design world to be very strong, more than that of jewelry at large. I want to place it into an art environment as much as possible, so also for fairs. Sharon: What if you don't like the first drawing or the first couple of drawings of something that an artist shows you for a ring, let's say, or a bracelet? What do you do? Esther: If I don't like it, it's very often because it doesn't look like them. It's not connected well enough to their work, to what they are. Sometimes the first idea they...
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Episode 215 Part 2: The Freedom of Art Jewelry with Gallerist Ilona Schwippel
12/14/2023
Episode 215 Part 2: The Freedom of Art Jewelry with Gallerist Ilona Schwippel
What you’ll learn in this episode: How studying and apprenticing abroad helped Ilona push the limits of her work How objects carry memories, and why that can influence someone’s desire to buy a vintage piece Why the most important thing a gallerist can do is choose pieces that resonate with them How art jewelry galleries create a channel of communication from artist to wearer to observer Why jewelry artists have more freedom that other types of artists About Ilona Schwippel Ilona Schwippel has run the gallery Viceversa, in Lausanne, Switzerland, with her husband Christian Balmer for 20 years. She holds a bachelor in product design, jewelry and accessories from the High School of Arts and Design (HEAD) in Geneva and a diploma in luxury creations and artistic crafts from the University of Geneva. Since 2017, Ilona has lectured at the University of Applied Science, in Lucerne, in the XS Schmuck department. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript Gallerists have a unique position in the jewelry world as the connectors between artist and wearer—and Ilona Schwippel holds sacred this responsibility. As co-owner of jewelry gallery Viceversa in Lausanne, Switzerland, she is always looking for the pieces that resonate with her and her clients. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why jewelry carries the memories of its previous owners; why jewelry gives artists more freedom than any other medium; and how giving context to a piece can change a customer’s perception of it—for better or worse. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. I went on Art Jewelry Forum’s trip to Switzerland to find Swiss jewelers that I didn’t know about. Art Jewelry Forum has an international trip every year, and they’re usually very interesting and very good. There I met Ilona Schwippel and her partner, Christian, who are owners of the gallery Viceversa. Welcome back. If you see somebody who is interested and keeps looking at the piece, they keep coming back and looking at it, let’s say, do you then explain what the artist was trying to do? Ilona: If I have the chance, which I think is great and I really appreciate, I tell him the first time, or I tell that person my idea and the context of the piece at the very beginning. It depends on the person sometimes, how open they are at the moment to see what kind of discussion, what kind of dialogue we can have, whether the person wants to hear it or not. This is always very unpredictable. Sharon: Do you think art jewelry tells a deeper story than other kinds of jewelry? Ilona: I think so. Yes, absolutely. I also think that a piece of contemporary jewelry tells a very different story to the observer once its worn. It’s a different kind of communication. Sharon: It’s interesting. It’s probably true that once it’s worn, it tells a different story. Do you concentrate on certain artists? Do they have to be known? Are they up-and-comers? Any particular kind of artist? Ilona: We have both. Next spring, for example, we will prepare an exhibition with Karl Fritsch. We’ve been working with him for many, many years. Maybe it’s the third or fourth solo exhibition that we’ve done with him. It’s always incredible how he continues to surprise us by only making rings. This is really incredible. Sharon: Karl Fritsch? Ilona: Karl Fritsch. For instance, sometimes he works with already existing jewelry, and he interferes; he changes the piece in my eyes. He doesn’t only change the aspect of the piece by enhancing it or by improving the design in a humoristic way, the way they improve the design of very classical pieces with fantastic design. Some of them have just been turning the piece into something else, and they said it was like improving the piece. With Karl Fritsch, I think he is somewhere else. What I think is really interesting and very touching is that he changes it. For example, he takes an existing ring—each ring has a story. Each ring has its pedigree in terms of ownership. Sometimes you know; sometimes you don’t. Some people want to know; some people absolutely don’t want to know. What I think is interesting in his work is he takes this ancient piece, for example, and he changes the path of this ring. It doesn’t continue its way of living from owner to owner in a straight way. He takes a very sharp, radical turn. All of a sudden, it’s not only the piece that changes; it’s many things. The definition of the owner changes. I think that’s a very interesting part of his work. Sharon: I’m surprised to hear people don’t want to hear what it was originally and what it means today. Why wouldn’t people want to know? Do you have any idea? Ilona: Maybe they’re just more comfortable with something unknown than to know the stories. They would like to wear the piece, but they don’t want to carry the story of the piece or the story of the ancient owner with them. I think there is a very strong relationship between the owner and jewelry. Some pieces are really marked by the story of the ancient owner. It’s something personal. There’s this German-Vietnamese philosopher who is talking about objects. They are a souvenir of people, of situations. That’s where he says it’s a dramatic difference between data and tangible objects. I think objects really have the capacity to carry on memories, and I can understand that not everybody is comfortable with that. I think this is an incredible quality of jewelry. Sharon: If somebody comes to you and they want to exhibit or have their pieces in the gallery, does it matter to you if nobody has ever heard of them if you like the piece? Ilona: If you like the work, yes. The distinction between pieces of work—as a gallery, we like to build up a long-term relationship with the artists. We love following the work, seeing the evolution of the artist and seeing the new work in relation to the pieces that were there before. If you see only one piece, it’s difficult to read, and it’s difficult to talk about the universe. I think it’s always exciting and important to see the universe, to have a body of work. Not just single pieces, but a body of work that tells a story. Then, if the person is known or unknown, it doesn’t matter. It’s about the quality and the content of this body of work. Sharon: So, if they want to exhibit in your gallery but they only bring one work or one piece, you tell them to come back and show four or five so you get the connection. Ilona: Yeah, and it’s also to know about the artist’s aim, about the content of the pieces, to feel the intention of the artist, why he or she did these pieces. Why do these pieces exist? Why was it important to create them? Why do they have to exist? Sharon: Has it changed your mind when they bring one piece and you think, “Oh, well, that’s not so great,” but then they bring four or five and it’s the connection you see? Ilona: Yes, absolutely. You can really see a story and also see it more in depth. With one piece, it’s more difficult to see the depth of the intention. If it’s only one piece, it’s less evident, maybe. Sharon: You operate the gallery with your husband. Do you have a division of labor? Do you look at the pieces and he writes the catalogue? Ilona: A lot of things we do together. This gallery is something really personal. It’s also incredible that each gallery you visit is so different from the other. It reflects the passion of each gallerist. I think it’s important that Christian and I work together. There are many questions we have to discuss, to talk about the artist, about the pieces and the exhibitions we would like to build up. Inside, we do some tasks separately for sure, but a lot of decisions we have to make together. It’s very enriching to have discussions about artists’ work that we don’t agree on. This is very interesting. Sharon: Can you walk into different galleries and feel a different—I don’t know what to call it—an air, a different feeling when you go into different galleries? Some of them are passionate and some are more utilitarian, let’s say. Can you tell? Ilona: I think so, yes. I think it really reflects the gallerist who made this choice. I think it’s important that you see that. It’s not important that you see the difference, but it is important that the choice of the pieces and the works of the artists is something authentic with the gallerist. Sharon: I guess I skipped a question. I wanted to ask why you like art jewelry. Ilona: Good question. I think I’m fascinated with the power that pieces have, the power of this non-personal communication. I think there are two aspects. On the one hand, I am aware as a wearer, so I want to make these pieces on my body communicate to the person in front of me. It’s like being a team with this piece of art. We have the same bond; we have the same message to give. On the other hand, as a gallerist, you have a different view of the piece. There, I see more of a connection to the artist, and I leave it open as to whom it will talk to, who is going to fall in love with it. Sometimes it’s myself. I think it is the content, and it’s something essential in communication. Sharon: Have you seen a piece that you might want to put in your gallery, but you don’t wear it yourself? Ilona: Yes and no. Sharon: It just doesn’t communicate what you want it to communicate. Ilona: Yes. There are pieces I really love, but I don’t feel this connection when I wear it. I guess this just happens. I think this is healthy. Sharon: But some other people might still see a connection. Ilona: Absolutely. Sharon: Have you ever worked in another gallery? Ilona: I did work at one when I was in Lisbon. I worked in the gallery at Artefacto3. At the time, it was Tereza Seabra that ran the gallery. Sharon: Was there a difference in the air or in the feeling of the gallery compared to your gallery? Ilona: It’s hard to say because at the time, I didn’t have any other experience with galleries, with contemporary jewelry galleries especially. But it was different, and I think that’s important. I think that’s something very important, these differences. Sharon: When you say contemporary jewelry galleries, it makes me think that in Europe or Switzerland, there are more contemporary jewelry galleries. There are very few in the States. They exist, but there are very few. I wonder if there are more in Europe. I don’t know. Would you say that in the time you studied art jewelry, the market has grown in Europe? Ilona: I think so. I think it’s also due to the schools. They are very active in communicating. The students are studying the works at the museums that collect, that show the connections, that have exhibitions or design exhibitions where they mix objects and jewelry. I see this as a precious education to make contemporary jewelry become more known by a larger public. Sharon: Are they doing that on purpose? Ilona: I think they choose the pieces because they have to be in the exhibition with the content they want to communicate and the pertinence of the piece. Maybe the side effect is that it is an education, that there is educational value in it, but I don’t think this is the first purpose. If we talk about education, it might be a principal purpose when they organize workshops, lectures, guided tours, meeting artists at roundtable discussions, something like that. This is actively finetuned. It keeps the discussion lively and brings people together to talk about these subjects and about this not-very-much-known field. Sharon: When you talk about it, it sounds very exciting. What is it that’s kept your attention on art jewelry over the years? Ilona: I think it captures the questions that come from society. If it seems that society is worried about something, they can communicate with the pieces. It’s a very lively art. I think it’s also something exceptional and precious, the freedom that jewelry artists have. They can really do the piece. Most of them can make the piece from the very first moment to the very last moment. So many are capable of finishing the piece all by themselves, which means during the thinking and creation process, they continue to evaluate. I think this is an enormous freedom, and this freedom also gives them a place for really absurd and surrealist things that you would never dream about in the field of jewelry. Jewelry is performance. It is linked so much to the body; it’s linked so much to the lively body, to the vivid communication that is part of the daily performance we do. Sharon: That is very interesting. Ilona, thank you very much for taking the time to talk with us and to let us know about art jewelry in Switzerland. Ilona: I’m very happy that we had the chance to talk and that you were curious about our gallery. We were really happy to talk to you in Switzerland. It was great to feel your enthusiasm and this energy you have. Thank you very much. Sharon: Thank you. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 215 Part 1: The Freedom of Art Jewelry with Gallerist Ilona Schwippel
12/12/2023
Episode 215 Part 1: The Freedom of Art Jewelry with Gallerist Ilona Schwippel
What you’ll learn in this episode: How studying and apprenticing abroad helped Ilona push the limits of her work How objects carry memories, and why that can influence someone’s desire to buy a vintage piece Why the most important thing a gallerist can do is choose pieces that resonate with them How art jewelry galleries create a channel of communication from artist to wearer to observer Why jewelry artists have more freedom that other types of artists About Ilona Schwippel Ilona Schwippel has run the gallery Viceversa, in Lausanne, Switzerland, with her husband Christian Balmer for 20 years. She holds a bachelor in product design, jewelry and accessories from the High School of Arts and Design (HEAD) in Geneva and a diploma in luxury creations and artistic crafts from the University of Geneva. Since 2017, Ilona has lectured at the University of Applied Science, in Lucerne, in the XS Schmuck department. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript Gallerists have a unique position in the jewelry world as the connectors between artist and wearer—and Ilona Schwippel holds sacred this responsibility. As co-owner of jewelry gallery Viceversa in Lausanne, Switzerland, she is always looking for the pieces that resonate with her and her clients. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why jewelry carries the memories of its previous owners; why jewelry gives artists more freedom than any other medium; and how giving context to a piece can change a customer’s perception of it—for better or worse. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week. Many of you know that I went on Art Jewelry Forum’s trip to Switzerland to find Swiss jewelers that I didn’t know about. Art Jewelry Forum has an international trip every year, and they’re usually very interesting and very good. There I met Ilona Schwippel and her partner, Christian, who are owners of the gallery Viceversa. The gallery has a mix of up-and-comers as well as those who are familiar names. They’re located in the center of Lausanne. It’s a great place to be located because there’s a lot of foot traffic. People must stop in the store never having heard of it, but they are attracted by the windows. I was really taken with the name of the gallery, which is Viceversa, and thought about what it could mean. Since I couldn’t come up with anything on my own, I’ll let Ilona tell you. Ilona, welcome to the podcast. Ilona: Hi Sharon. Thank you so much for this wonderful invitation. Sharon: I’m glad you’re here. Ilona: Actually, to explain the name, I have to talk about the story of Viceversa gallery. Christian Balmer —actually my husband; we’re married—opened a small gallery in 1991. A couple of years later, in 1998, with a colleague, they opened a new store, a new gallery. All of a sudden, there existed these two stores. It was like vice versa—one of them in the other store. That’s why when I’m talking about organizing and summing up this whole project, each of them came up with the word, vice versa and vice versa. So, they stuck to the name and selected it for the new gallery. I came to Lausanne. We had met a couple of years before. At the time, I was still living in Lisbon. I’m a jewelry maker, and I had an internship, a practice, in Tel Aviv with an Israeli jewelry maker. During a show we had in Basel, Christian came as a visitor, and that’s how we met. It was a professional meeting. Sharon: I was surprised because in reading about it, the name of the gallery had been around for a long time, it seemed. Ilona: Yes, this year in November, in three weeks, we will celebrate 25 years of the galleries. Sharon: Wow! It’s a hallmark. There are not many galleries that can say that. So, you’re married. My next question was why did you and Christian decide to have the gallery together, your own art gallery? You are married. You studied in Lisbon? Ilona: I did an apprenticeship. I started doing an apprenticeship in jewelry making with a master, as you can do in many places. It’s quite usual to do that. Also, in order to find my own way of working, of thinking, of seeing things, I wanted to go abroad and feel the edges, feel the limits, and go beyond them. I had chosen Lisbon to experience this new context and to work there as an independent jewelry maker and designer. Since there is a very good school, I had the chance to participate in several workshops. It was my first contact with contemporary jewelry at the time. Once in a while, I had questions that I didn’t find the answers to. I was seeking dialogues. So, I saw in a magazine at the time an article about this Israeli jewelry maker, and I thought, “Well, these are the forms, the look he puts on jewelry and on the wearer.” I think it really taught me, even at that point. So, I got in contact with her. I did an internship with her for three months, and that’s when we prepared the exhibition. At the exhibition, they were paying her a visit. Sharon: You said that was your first contact with contemporary jewelry, in Lisbon? Ilona: Yeah, I would say so. I had a wonderful master to follow through my apprenticeship, very extraordinary pieces, only one-of-a-kind pieces. That was something completely spectacular and very generous. He is a wonderful person. I’m very grateful that I could work with him, that I could have this first contact with jewelry with him. But if you have such a strong master, it’s really important to find your own way of working, your own way of seeking, of questioning, to have your critical eye on your own work. It was important to me to go abroad and do something completely different, to jump into the cold water and to find my own task. Sharon: Were you able to do that in going abroad? Ilona: I guess so, yes. It was great. It was a wonderful time there, very special. It was the first time I was really imposing some limits or—how do you say—subjects and restrictions. I gave myself restrictions in my work to make it go to the essence of what I wanted to do, where I wanted to go while working, just getting step-by-step closer to what I really seek. Sharon: Up until that time, did you look at antique jewelry, vintage jewelry, other kinds of jewelry? Ilona: Yes, I did. I always thought it was really beautiful and touching, the care that was put into these incredible pieces and what they represented, not only for the person who wore it, but also for the people who saw it. It has this important symbolism, this important status, and this non-verbal communication to really tell things about yourself and your status with pieces. I needed this freedom that jewelry can offer, or that the material and the body can offer, to seek something else. I thought it was beautiful and I appreciated it, but it was not really an inspiration. For example, my master, when I did the apprenticeship, was working with incredible stones. It was very spectacular and colorful and joyful. To find my own way, and so I didn’t continue doing his work, I restricted myself by saying, “Don’t do pieces with stones. No stones.” That was maybe my first restriction. Sharon: So, you didn’t do anything with stones until now. Ilona: Yes. Sharon: Did he use a lot of stones? Ilona: Yeah, incredible. It’s very colorful, exceptional stones. Like many stone cutters, like the most knowing ones, the most famous ones, they have with the most exceptional stones, first of all. His studio designed the very best stones, and then they went to other places. So, it was really old and very big. Sharon: Do you show the stuff your master does in the gallery? Ilona: Quite a while ago, we did a group exhibition and he was invited. He participated, and that was really nice. Sharon: Do you have different kinds of exhibitions of jewelers that you didn’t know before you picked them for your exhibitions? Ilona: Yeah. For example, for the 25th anniversary, we worked with five great artists of 25 years, five very exceptional artists. The first man is Sigurd Bronger, a Norwegian artist, who had a solo show at the in Munich in the spring of 2024. So, they were very excited that he’s in the show. He’s from Norway. Katrin Feulner from Germany, and a Korean artist, Ji Hee Hong, also someone we never worked with before. Eric Loubser from South Africa is the only we’ve already worked with. In 2021, we organized a big double exhibition which was called Tangible Dialogue with 11 Japanese artists that are based in Japan. These 11 artists showed their work here in Lausanne. That was a wonderful, great exhibition. It was a very nice event. The year after, 11 Swiss jewelry artists were showing their work in Tokyo. So, we had this double exhibition, and that was where we had the first contact with Shinji Nakaba. So, we’re really happy that he’s in the show for 25 years now. Sharon: Wow! What were your trepidations? Were you nervous about having people in the show that you hadn’t worked with before? Ilona: That’s a very good question. It’s very exciting. We are really looking forward to setting up the show and organizing everything and then celebrating. Once you get the parcel and open it, it’s always this incredible discovery. If it’s the first time you’ve worked with somebody and you discover the piece, if it’s the first time you’ve touched it, you can see that it’s round and see the volume and the details, it’s always a very special moment. It’s very emotional. Sharon: How do you find all these people? Ilona: Schmuck in Munich. We’re so lucky, and I guess the whole jewelry world is so lucky, that it exists with such great enthusiasm and this great dynamic, and also this incredible quality. I think this is something very exceptional. Then we go see exhibitions abroad, like in Paris, to have a look at jewelry. This is always interesting to see artists that are not yet known, to discover talents. I think also that AJF is a great platform to discover, to get information. It is really fantastic. Yeah, there are different channels. Sharon: Do you have to go out to find these people or do they come to you? Ilona: Both. Sharon: Both? How do they come to you, with photos? Ilona: Either they come directly to the gallery or they email us, or we know each other. They talk to us in Munich. Different ways exist, but I would say mostly it’s by email because people are informed. They inform themselves; they read. Also, there’s Instagram. It’s the same, either Instagram or email. Sharon: That’s interesting, Instagram. Did you have a slowdown during Covid? I don’t know how it was in Switzerland. Ilona: Yes, we did. We had a shutdown twice. This was the first lockdown we had. We had moved into our new place and had our first exhibition to celebrate this new gallery, which was the exhibition with these 11 wonderful Japanese artists. Then a couple of weeks together, boom, it was a lockdown. It was really hard. Even though we couldn’t open the gallery, we came every day. Of course, there was a lot of email and things to do, but I had the impression that without the clients, without these people passionate about art jewelry, that the pieces were all orphans. They needed us to look at them and touch them, to manipulate them. That was a very strong feeling. So, we came and started to organize the next exhibition. It was also to have the artists keep believing in it. Yeah, it was really terrible. Sharon: How do you decide which exhibitions you’re going to have? Ilona: What is really important for us is always the fact that we have to be touched by the work. It’s a great pleasure for us to show this work, and we really look forward to proudly presenting it to our public. I think it’s a very important point to believe in the work and to be able to transmit that to the visitors. I see our work as governance. I see it as the link between the artist and the person that will fall in love with the piece. Without us, they might not meet. We can also give peace. We talk about the pieces; we talk about the artists. We give people peace to read the piece, to find details, to read the details of the piece and to see it in a certain context that was wanted by the artist. I think it’s important to have this emotional contact. Sharon: We didn’t have that much time to spend at your gallery. Do you think there are pieces that people like, but you tell them what the artist meant, and they look at it in a totally different way? Somebody once said they have to meet the artist first, which I don’t believe in, but they said that. I have to like the piece. That’s important to me, but if somebody explained what they were trying to say, that might be different. Ilona: I guess so. Every artwork, if you have the title or you see it in a certain context, like an exhibition with a theme or a subject, then you look differently at the piece. You read it differently. I think it can change the perception in both ways. It can make you more open towards the piece. It can also repulse you, because maybe it’s a story or a context that is not what you feel comfortable with. So, both ways exist. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out.
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Episode 214 Part 2: How Jewelry Artist Gabi Veit Experiments with a Simple Object: The Spoon
12/07/2023
Episode 214 Part 2: How Jewelry Artist Gabi Veit Experiments with a Simple Object: The Spoon
What you’ll learn in this episode: What triggered Gabi’s obsession with spoons Why the most elementary shapes are the perfect canvas for exploration How Gabi uses wax to create her pieces Why Gabi never polishes the spoons she creates, and why there is beauty in imperfection Why there is no time limit to study and make jewelry About Gabi Veit Gabi Veit is an Italian artist and jewelry designer with a passion for spoons. She lives and works in Bozen/Südtirol/Italia and in Aesch/Zürich/Switzerland. Having grown up in South Tyrol, she creates jewelry that celebrates the rough and jagged shapes and outlines of her home country’s rocks and mountains. Her unique spoons surprise the beholder with unusual shapes borrowed from plant life. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: A spoon is one of the most basic objects we have: a line and a circle, designed for everyday use. In this simplicity, jewelry artist Gabi Veit saw a world of possibilities. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she started making spoons; why no two of her spoons are alike, even in a set; and why she is living proof that it’s never too late to study jewelry and design. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Gabi Veit’s work is definitely different than any other you will encounter. She makes jewelry, yes, but for the past few years, she has been very taken with spoons. It’s for a variety of reasons that I will let her tell you about. Welcome back. Does the museum advertise your work? Do they promote it? Gabi: Yes, they do. It’s not only my work in this case. There are 50 other artists who are showing their work. This exhibition is made to show the clients, the people, what’s happening now, what artisans and artists are doing at this moment. There are museums for applied art which are doing this. It’s a nice, ambient atmosphere there. Sharon: Do you ever feel a little envious of what other people are doing? Do you look at their work and think, “I should try that”? Gabi: It’s very interesting. Maybe because I started so late. I started with jewelry when I was 40. When I entered into this exhibition, when I had the possibility to have this exhibition, it was more, “Oh look, what does she do?” I’m in a wonderland when I’m exhibiting with colleagues, and I’m happy to have the opportunity to be part of this community. I’m more happy than envious. No, I’m not envious. I’m not an envious woman, I think. Sharon: You don’t seem like you are. You were in advertising and graphic design before this. What made you decide to go into jewelry? Gabi: I always wear jewelry. I always loved jewelry. When I was 26, I was always thinking about doing an apprenticeship in my region, but they said, “No, you are 26. You are too old to do that.” I believed I was too old, and I did my work. I also founded a theater in my hometown. I was completely—how can say it—I was most happy with my life. There were so many nice things going on in my life that I somehow forgot this wish. Then this wish came again, and I started giving workshops. I was thinking, “Oh, I need to know more. I need to learn the techniques.” So, I went to Florence. I was there for three years at Alchimia to study contemporary jewelry. Sharon: When you say you gave workshops, did you give workshops in design or jewelry? Gabi: I was a student of workshops. Sharon: Oh, O.K. Gabi: Now, I give workshops, but then I was the student. Sharon: I read that in 2016, you gave a workshop in Edinburgh with two other Italians. Gabi: No, this was a symposium. We were invited. Maria Garza, Gigi Mariani and I were invited to go to Edinburgh to meet other artists and to work together for one week. It was an interesting experience for all of us. Then we worked for a year at home, and then we made an exhibition about our experience. Sharon: What was interesting about the experience? What was interesting to you? Gabi: For me, it was very interesting that we went to the sea on the first day together. I noticed all the others were familiar with the waves and the sea. I had a lot of respect for the water, and I was also noticing that the water was bringing something. It was bringing shells and also garbage. You can stay there and the water brings you treasures, but if you grow up in the mountains, treasures are never floating directly on your feet. When you are in the mountains, you have to climb them. When you go down, you have to do it by yourself. I was like, “Oh, wow! There is another way to get inspiration.” Sharon: Did you make some spoons from that idea? Gabi: I made spoons out of shells I found there. Sharon: What did they get out of it? What do you think they saw, Gigi Mariani and the other person? Gabi: It was not the first moment, but it was a very intense moment for us Italians that the sea was also bringing refugees and dead refugees. Gigi and Maria Garza were dealing with these arguments, with these dead bodies and with these people who have the hope to get a better life that sometimes die in the sea. That was their way to look at the sea in this moment. Sharon: You also make bowls. Two bowls of jewelry, I mean. Gabi: Yeah. Sharon: Do your bowls ever go with the spoons? Do you make a set? Gabi: I’ve never made a set until now. They are good to combine, but I never did it as a combination from the moment I started. Sharon: Has anybody that collects your things ever commissioned you and said, “I want five spoons and six bowls,” like a dinner set? Gabi: No, that would be so nice. Please, if I received that, I would like to do that. Sharon: You would do it? Gabi: Yes, sure. That’s very interesting. Maybe I can tell the person that the pieces I make are not always the same. If you say, “I want to have 12 spoons,” they are not completely the same. Maybe they are a family, but like in a family, there are different characters. My work is all about unique pieces and not multiples. Sharon: Do you ever tell people when they say, “What should I do with this? Do you hang it around your neck or a belt or something?” Do they hang it on a wall? Gabi: Yes, there are a lot of people who say, “Oh, it’s so nice, this spoon. It could be a brooch.” Then I say, “No, sorry, that’s not a brooch, it’s a spoon. If you want to have this as a brooch, I would make it again, not in a spoony way, but in a brooch way. So, it becomes a real brooch, not only an object with—" Sharon: A pin or something. Gabi: Yeah. The spoon is born as a spoon. A spoon is a spoon is a spoon. There are people who put my spoons on the table only to look at them, but also on the wall. That happens. Sharon: Do you have to hold yourself back if you think, “Well, I should polish it more.” A lot of your stuff is oxidized or it’s rough. Do you think, “I should polish it to make it shine”? Gabi: I never polish. I really don’t polish, never, never. I know that in tableware, traditional spoons are shiny. But when they are made out of silver or sterling silver, they never could stay this shiny because they will oxidize anyhow. It’s impossible to get silver always in the same color and always shiny. I don’t want to go against the material. I like this Japanese idea of beauty, wabi-sabi, where the beauty is not made out of a perfect thing, but it’s made when an object is used, when an object maybe has an error, when an object oxidizes or has a part which is more shiny on one side. I really like this way to treat my work. Sharon: Did you study in Japan? Gabi: No. I would like to go to Japan. Sharon: I know you’ve studied at different places. Where else have you studied besides Switzerland and Italy? Gabi: I never studied in Switzerland. I studied graphic design in Austria. I studied graphic design also in Venice, in Italy, and then in Florence. I was not in other countries. In Germany, I did some workshops, but no other studies. Sharon: When people ask you to do workshops, do they want you to show how to do the spoons? Gabi: They are interested in working with wax, which I show them. There are so many different ways to treat wax. When the outcome is a spoon, I’m happy, but when the outcome is—I don’t know—a necklace part, a ring or an object, that’s also O.K. The participants of my workshop come with different ideas, and this is what I like. Maybe they are intrigued by my spoons or by my jewelry pieces, but it’s about their language and not about my language. Sharon: Have you ever inspired somebody who has been told they were too old to do it, and then they went on and did it anyway because you went against the grain? Do you ever meet anybody who was told they’re too old to change fields—or not to change fields, but to do this and you’ve inspired them? You’ve said, “No, that’s not true.” Gabi: I always say to everyone, “It’s not true.” I think you can do everything when you want. It doesn’t need to be radical. It can be an hour a day or an hour a week. You can achieve change or achieve things in many different ways. Sharon: Why do you say that a spoon is a subject of experimentation and interaction? You’ve said that. Why is that? Gabi: For me, the spoon is a big field of experimentation. There are moments when I’m having a hike or a walk and I see a spoon everywhere. Somehow, a tree is a spoon formally. It’s about my imagination and what I can see in whatever I watch. I also think the spoon theme is not finished. It never finishes because there are so many possibilities. Maybe that could be an explanation. Then, for me, spoons are needed for cooking and scooping and eating. Eating in itself is an interaction and communication. I think the best way to talk to each other is to sit around the table and eat together. I’m sure there is at least one spoon. Sharon: That’s true. What’s the largest? Have you ever made a spoon for a tureen, something large? Gabi: I’ve made very small pieces, like three centimeters, and also very big ones like, 30 centimeters. Sharon: What was your attraction initially to the spoon you were designing and advertising? What did you see in the spoon? Gabi: I think it’s a very simple tool. Maybe it’s one of our first tools that humankind uses. Somehow, our hand is the bowl and our arm is the handle. We have our own spoons with us, but when it’s too hot or too cold, we need a tool. I think from the beginning, people did their own tools, their own spoons. This is so primary, so easy, so simple, which I love very much. Sharon: Is that what keeps you going? That the spoon, the art jewelry, is never finished? You use a different spoon for everything. Gabi: Yeah, I think so. I would never do a fork, and I would never do a knife. That’s not interesting for me. The spoon somehow is more interesting. Sharon: That’s interesting. I didn’t even think of a different tool for you. Would a fork be too difficult? Gabi: I would find a way to do it, but I’m not interested. I think this simple form attracts me much more than the spikey tree or the five spikes of a fork. I don’t know. It’s not so inspiring for me. Sharon: Gabi, thank you for being here today and for explaining. It’s a whole table of spoons, and they’re really unusual. I really appreciate your being here today. Gabi: Thank you very much. Sharon: Thank you. Well will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 214 Part 1: How Jewelry Artist Gabi Veit Experiments with a Simple Object: The Spoon
12/05/2023
Episode 214 Part 1: How Jewelry Artist Gabi Veit Experiments with a Simple Object: The Spoon
What you’ll learn in this episode: What triggered Gabi’s obsession with spoons Why the most elementary shapes are the perfect canvas for exploration How Gabi uses wax to create her pieces Why Gabi never polishes the spoons she creates, and why there is beauty in imperfection Why there is no time limit to study and make jewelry About Gabi Veit Gabi Veit is an Italian artist and jewelry designer with a passion for spoons. She lives and works in Bozen/Südtirol/Italia and in Aesch/Zürich/Switzerland. Having grown up in South Tyrol, she creates jewelry that celebrates the rough and jagged shapes and outlines of her home country’s rocks and mountains. Her unique spoons surprise the beholder with unusual shapes borrowed from plant life. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: A spoon is one of the most basic objects we have: a line and a circle, designed for everyday use. In this simplicity, jewelry artist Gabi Veit saw a world of possibilities. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how she started making spoons; why no two of her spoons are alike, even in a set; and why she is living proof that it’s never too late to study jewelry and design. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week. Gabi Veit’s work is definitely different than any other you will encounter. She makes jewelry, yes, but for the past few years, she has been very taken with spoons. It’s for a variety of reasons that I will let her tell you about. She grew up in an area which I would call rough, in that the landscape is rough. It is filled with jagged edges, which I think you will see in her jewelry and spoons. Her work also calls on the organic with branches and leaves incorporated in her work. Gabi also has an unusual perspective on the world. She’s the first person to show me a PowerPoint without having a PowerPoint, which is very interesting and creative. Gabi, welcome to the podcast. Gabi: Thank you very much for having me. Sharon: I’m so glad you’re here. Gabi is talking to us from Switzerland, right? Gabi: Yeah. Sharon: I’m not familiar with the Dolomites. You were born there and you return on a regular basis. Can you tell me about them and how they influenced your jewelry? Gabi: Yes, I’m sitting in Switzerland now, but my home base—I was born in Italy, in the Dolomites. I grew up in the outskirts of Bolzano, which is a city with 100,000 inhabitants. The mountains surround the city completely. If you wanted to, you could take three different cable cars to go up to the mountains. I saw mountains every day, always, and we went hiking every weekend. Somehow the mountains for me, the Dolomites, are my home. They symbolize vastness and mightiness. They are powerful and dangerous somehow, but they are also cozy for me. I am familiar with these mountains. Sharon: Did you have to take cable cars most places you went, let’s say to school or the grocery store? Gabi: No, the city is down at 250 meters. My city is very hot in the summer, so to escape this heat, you take a cable car and go up 1,000 meters in 12 minutes. Then you are in a nice, warm but not hot area with forest and with animals. The city is like a city, but it’s surrounded by mountains, and these mountains are very near. You can’t not see them, so I am used to orienting myself by looking at the mountains. I know one is in the east; the other is in the north. I’m completely lost when I don’t have mountains around. Sharon: Can you tell us what influenced your development of spoons? It’s so unusual. Gabi: Not really. The spoon thing started with—I have two stories. One is that I like to eat and I like to cook, so you need a spoon at least. You need more than one spoon to eat and cook. The other story is that I was in South America. After this trip, I showed a friend my treasures that I brought with me, and she said, “Oh, you are collecting spoons now.” I denied it, but she replied, “But look, there are seven spoons, and seven spoons is a collection.” So, I started to be interested in the spoon as an object, and I started to collect the spoons. Now I have more than 800 pieces. I started as a collector, not as a maker. I was looking everywhere for spoons: at the market, at the flea market. My collection of spoons is out of wood and metal and plastics and glass and bone and horns. It’s so interesting to see how spoons are used. They have holes when you need to take olives out of the salamoia. They are big or small. It depends on the purpose. That was my entrance into the spoon world. Sharon: You said that it’s very simple. It’s an elementary shape. What makes your spoons so unusual? What’s different about your spoons? Gabi: I think when I started to do spoons, I was not aware that my spoons were special. I was driven first to understand how I can do spoons. Normally, when I don’t know where or how to start, I start with a restriction. As I like to eat, as I told you, and as I also like to observe people, I noticed that people have different behaviors when they eat. Someone eats very fast; the other looks more at the plate of his neighbor and not at his plate. I was thinking that maybe I should start doing spoons for people that have strange behaviors. As I grew up in an area where Catholicism was very strong, for me, it was simple to think about the seven deadly sins, because they concentrate all behaviors in seven ways. So, I started to explore these seven sins. I was driven by finding a solution for a spoon which doesn’t help you eat well somehow. I think when someone wants it all and wants it all now, maybe you don’t eat very well; you don’t have the pleasure to eat. I did this research for one year. I did a lot of forms which were not completely perfect for this aim, but they were beautiful. That was the starting point to get a lot of different forms. For sure, there is a second very important thing for me. That’s nature. So, on the one side is the behavior of people, and on the other side there is nature, which I also observe a lot. As I grew up in a plant nursery, I am very familiar with growing and with how a plant finds its way to get its fruits somehow. Maybe I’ve been observing plants since I was a child. Sharon: But there are spoons that have leaves; they have twigs; they have all kinds of natural things. Gabi: Yeah, they have. It’s all looking. I can also explain, as you said before, the spoon is a very simple tool. It’s made of one line and one circle. The circle is the bowl and the line is the handle, but nobody tells me that a circle has to be round or a line has to be straight. When I started to think about this, I was able to make a lot of variation. This is also a way to start from a very simple form. It’s easier to find a lot of variations. Sharon: Have you made a spoon with a square or a different kind of bowl? Gabi: Yeah. Sharon: Did you develop these theories from the beginning of making spoons, or did they come to you as you were developing spoons? Gabi: Both. Somehow by observing a spoon, observing how I take it in my hand and how I put it in my mouth, every day I do research on the spoon. There are theories I read and there are experiences I made. That’s a long process because I started collecting in 2001 and started making in 2006. So, there is a long experience in dealing with this tool. Sharon: I read somewhere that you incorporate stones in everything. Is that true? Gabi: Not really. If you mean a precious stone, I don’t use stones. I don’t use precious stones. When I go for a walk, I always pick up stones. I’m happy to see a nice stone, but maybe in my jewelry, I make my own stones. Sharon: In your necklaces and your rings, you make your own stones. What do you mean? Gabi: I normally work with wax. This is my main material. When I work with wax, I can form it in different ways. I can cut; I can carve it. Somehow, I carve my stones. I cut my stones, but afterwards they are cast in metal. There are only two stones I use in my jewelry. One is the garnet from my region, which I incorporate in my jewelry. For two or three years I have used rough diamonds for my jewelry, not for my spoons. My spoons are always without stones, but the jewelry has these two stones sometimes. Sharon: The garnets from the Dolomite region, are they red? Are they green? Gabi: They are red. Sharon: I didn’t see any stones in any of your work that you showed. Gabi: I did a collection. The name is Rose Garden. In my hometown, you look at the mountain of the Dolomites, the name of which is Rose Garden. When the sun goes down in the evening, it becomes pink. There is an old legend that a king lived there in this rose garden, and that he kidnapped a princess because he was in love with her. He wanted to have her in his palace, but she didn’t want to, so he kidnapped her. Her brother and other knights found her only because they knew he had a rose garden. The rose garden somehow gave them the direction and they were able to liberate her. The king was so mad about his rose garden that he said, “You will never bloom again, neither by day nor by night,” but he forgot the morning and the evening. So, these mountain blooms glow really pinkish in the evening. It’s beautiful. Somehow the garnets I found in my region in South Tyrol, they also have this red shine. So, I called this collection Rose Garden. Sharon: If you pick up a regular stone, a rock stone, do you come home and throw it in a drawer and say, “Maybe I’ll use it someday”? Or do you have an idea? Gabi: Not yet. There are some collections based on the form of a stone, maybe. You can see that. But in this moment, I’m not so into these stones, I think. But it’s also true that next year on, I want to do a new collection, and I have no idea where it will go. So, maybe our talk brings me to the stones. I don’t know. Sharon: Can you make your own stones? Do you ever make a stone out of wax? Gabi: Yeah. There are different possibilities to make stones. Sharon: What do people use your spoons for? Gabi: My spoons are not spoons for the mouth. They are spoons to take sugar from a bowl and to put it in your cappuccino, your tea. My spoons are used for seeds, for pepper, for chili, for all these things you take from one bowl to your plate or to your bowl. I have one client, one collector, who has a different spoon for every use. He doesn’t buy the spoon he likes. When he comes to my exhibition, I notice quickly which spoon he likes most, but only until the moment he knows for which purpose he can use it, he won’t buy it. He always finds a purpose, and that’s very good for him. Sharon: Do you know because he’s happier or he smiles? How do you know he found the one he likes? Gabi: It’s very interesting. He’s very silent. He looks and watches for five minutes, 10 minutes, and then he takes one spoon and another. I notice when he finds one or when he falls in love somehow. It’s really nice to observe that. Sharon: Where do you share your spoons? At your workspace, or do you take them on the road? Gabi: I take them on the road. Normally, I create exhibitions in museums. There are some museums in Germany, in Leipzig and in Hamburg, where there are fairs in the museum, very nicely created. There I show my work. Sharon: That’s interesting. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out.
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Episode 213 Part 2: The Inspiration Behind Esther Brinkmann’s Shapeshifting Rings
12/01/2023
Episode 213 Part 2: The Inspiration Behind Esther Brinkmann’s Shapeshifting Rings
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Esther’s experiences in China and India continue to influence her work today Why different materials have different meanings, and how that impacts the wearer Why the relationship between a jewelry artist and a customer is particularly special and intimate How wearing jewelry influences the way we move through the world The most important qualities a jewelry teacher should have About Esther Brinkmann Esther Brinkmann is an independent jewelry maker living and working in Switzerland. Her work has been exhibited in galleries throughout the world and is held in the collections of the National Museum of Switzerland, Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, Museo Internazionale delle Arti Applicate Oggi (MIAAO) in Torino, and the V&A in London. She established the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD) in Geneva, the first jewelry education program of its kind in the country. Additional Resources: Esther’s Esther’s Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Jewelry artist Esther Brinkmann makes her rings with intention, considering everything from the meaning of the material used to the way the shape of the ring will change how the wearer moves their hands. She has passed this perspective down to hundreds of students at the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD), the jewelry program she founded in Geneva. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how living in China and India made her question her identity and influenced her work; why many of her rings are designed to fit different sized hands; and what makes the relationship between artist and wearer so special. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. I recently went to Switzerland with Art Jewelry Forum. One of the afternoons we had was at Esther Brinkmann’s home. It was a very memorable lunch and afternoon. We got to see her studio, and on top of that, we had an unforgettable luncheon cooked by her husband, Warner. Welcome back. Do you think you were taken by the design, the motifs and everything, because you’re a designer? For instance, would I be taken by it? Esther: You would be marveled by all these beautiful things, and you would love to buy these things, but maybe you would not have the desire to do your own designs, whereas I immediately got the desire to introduce these new inspirations. I was really stimulated to introduce these things in my own designs and to evolve to develop new ideas. Sharon: For those of us that were interested in the enamel rings, I think you said we had to be careful if we dropped them or banged them. They were like glass. Esther: Yeah, enamel is a glass-like material. It certainly it is not the best idea to make rings with enamel, but I could not resist. As I love rings, I just had to do a few of those rings. This was a period when I did realize maybe 20 of those rings, but they are difficult to sell because they are difficult to wear. You have deal with them very carefully. Sharon: What other jewelry did you make while you were there? Esther: In India, besides these enamel rings, besides this collaboration, I also started to do pieces with some stones. I discovered, for instance, the polki diamond in India. You can find it only in India. It’s a diamond; let’s say it is not the best quality. It’s a piece of diamond with many, many cracks. They split it into very thin plates, very roughly faceted, not as we have the idea of a diamond with many, many facets. It is a very flat stone with a lot of cracks. It looks like broken ice or something like that. I love this kind of diamond. I started to make rings with that. I also started to purchase a number of not very precious stones, like peridots or topaz, etc. I started to introduce stones as a color element in rings especially. Sharon: They call them polki diamonds? How would you spell that? Esther: P-O-L-K-I. This might be the Hindi word for this specific diamond, but when you put it on Google, you can find it. Sharon: That’s interesting. From what you’re describing, it’s what we consider Indian diamonds. Along with the monograph that was put out by Arnoldsche for some of your exhibits, you also have a book that just came out about your jewelry. Esther: Yes. Sharon: A lot of it describes jewelry provoking feelings or provoking people. Could you talk about that a little? How do you see it provoking people? Esther: I think this is the main reason why I am so interested in jewelry, because jewelry is something I create. I make a piece that has a relationship to a body, to a person. I don’t know who the person wearing my piece will be. That depends on my practice. I work with galleries, but I create a piece with the idea that another person will choose it, and this person will wear it. This person will be like an ambassador of what I have created. This person will adopt what I have created for herself. She or he will wear it and show it, will translate it to others around her or him. That is a very special thing, a very special relationship between an artist and a customer or a collector. When you buy a sculpture, the sculpture will have a relationship to a space, to your garden or your living room, but a piece of jewelry is something very intimate. When a collector buys something I have created, it’s not mine anymore. I am absolutely comfortable and very at ease with this idea, to give this away. What I know and what makes it so rich is that this person will adopt something and use it as an intimate mirror of her thoughts, of her emotions, of her mind, of her attitude. I think this is a very special thing. The piece of jewelry influences our gestures, especially the big rings. They influence our gestures. They influence our body language. We experience our body in a different way when we wear a piece of jewelry. Sharon: Any piece or are you talking about larger, significant pieces? Esther: No, any piece, any. I’m talking now about any piece. Sharon: Oh, wow! That’s something to think about. You mentioned that you make the rings in gold and jade and silver. Do they have different meanings, the different materials? Esther: Absolutely. I think any material has its own meaning. Of course, gold, silver and jade are so-called precious materials. They are considered by everybody as precious. I like them not because they are considered precious worldwide, but I like to work with them because of other qualities. For instance, gold and silver are very plastic materials. You can hammer volumes out of a flat sheet of gold or silver. You cannot do this with a simple hammer and iron, for instance, but gold and silver have these plastic qualities. Then, of course, the color is a very important aspect. The weight of silver is very tender. Yellow gold is much stronger. I also know that silver is linked in many, many cultures to the moon and the feminine, and gold is linked to the sun and to the male aspect in us. Whether we know it or not, it is like an ancestral knowing that is within us and that we can feel. That’s also why different people are attracted by different materials. Not everybody likes to wear gold. Not everybody is able to have a big ring made of gold because it’s a statement you make. Sharon: Do you think you’re influenced in these thoughts by your living abroad or living in different cultures? Esther: I think so, yes. Of course, I learned a lot. For instance, jade has a strong symbolic meaning in China and for the Chinese culture. It’s a very strong material, which we may not understand immediately, only if we learn about it. I think living in other areas of the world, you become sensitive to how different materials are used. As a person who likes to transform material into something, into an object, or to transform very simple materials like a thread or a string into something precious, into something which has a specific character, it gives you another relationship to different materials. I choose my materials very consciously by what I want to transmit as a feeling. Sharon: Would you call yourself a jeweler? Esther: Yes, absolutely. I’m a jewelry maker, yes. Sharon: I guess a jewelry maker is different than a jeweler. I have my own understanding of what a jeweler is. You’re a jewelry maker. Esther: I have to say English is not my language. I might not make the difference between jeweler and jewelry maker. I know the difference between a jewelry maker and a designer. I’m not a designer because I make things myself. I create and I make. I realize things myself. So, I’m not a designer. I don’t consider myself a designer. Sharon: What possessed you to start a whole department in Geneva, a jewelry department at the university there? Esther: That was a very happy, glad circumstance. It was in the beginning of 1980. Switzerland joined the European Space for Higher Education. Art schools and schools for applied arts were things then, not universities. They had no universities for art. In the beginning of 1980, we joined the European Space for Higher Education. At the school where I studied between 1974 and 1978, and where I started to teach in 1982, we, the teachers, were asked to make a proposal for a new education program. At that time, I was already very active as an independent jewelry maker. I could participate in international exhibitions, and I absolutely wanted to open a department for experimental and art jewelry in Geneva because we didn’t have that. We had this excellent program for luxury jewelry. That is what I learned. For four years, I had this education for luxury jewelry, and I thought it was the time in Switzerland, and especially in the French-speaking part of Switzerland. In this very luxurious environment, we needed something breaking this up. This is another idea of what luxury can be. It’s not only luxury and precious metals and very expensive stones; it can be something very different. That is the environment where I could start this jewelry design department at the school in Geneva, which is now called the School for Applied Arts, which has the same status as a university. Sharon: As a university, did you first study basic university courses? Esther: I was never in a university. I just knew them from my colleagues I met when we exhibited. I knew the Rietveld Academy. I knew the RCA in London. I knew Otto Künzli in Munich. I had this dream of doing something like that in Geneva, and I was given the opportunity and the confidence to start and create this department. It was a very lucky situation. I am a very lucky person in general. Sharon: Well, you must be a good teacher because there are people all over that I met who said, “Oh, I studied with Esther Brinkmann.” You must be a good teacher. They wouldn’t have chosen this, would they? Esther: I’m very much able to transmit my passion. I’m also able to support young people to find their own way, to express ideas, to find their own materials and, maybe the most important, to find the energy to develop and to not give up, to stay with an idea and to follow your intuition, to give you the skills and the force to realize something until satisfaction. This is a very, very important thing. Everybody has ideas; everybody can have excellent ideas, but you have to have the energy and the endurance to follow your way and follow your idea until materializing something to achieve a piece. That is something you need support for. I think that is a very important thing the teacher has to give, to transmit to her students. Sharon: Was there a competition or was there stress in choosing you? Were they going to choose somebody for this position? Esther: No, there was nobody. There were different people to propose different programs. I had a colleague who also proposed a program for watch design. We had a very small department for watch design open at that time, but nothing in the field of creative jewelry. Sharon: Creative jewelry being contemporary too? Esther: Yes, being contemporary jewelry. Sharon: Tell us about the Magpies. We’ll finish with that. What about the Magpies? Esther: I met the Magpies more or less at the same period. I met Theresa, who was the founder of this club called the Magpies. It was a small group of friends, of women. They were just fond of jewelry, although not of contemporary jewelry at that time. Two or three of them were involved in archaeology. They were fond of tribal jewelry, of jewelry from the Middle East. They were just interested in jewelry. When I met them, I could introduce them to contemporary jewelry. Since then, they were very supportive of my students as a group of women who were just enthusiastic and following what we were doing and also, of course, buying work, which is always very important. That’s how we kept going in parallel together until now. What happened is that I would say in the last 15 years, this group has become less and less active because the women are getting elderly. They stopped organizing activities. Only recently a group of younger people are starting this group of collectors again and trying to organize activities around this topic. It depends always on people and privileged relationships that we can have with collectors, but also galleries. It’s the same with students. People can stimulate each other to excellence, to create things and to do activities which they would not do when they are alone. Sharon: Do you see that happening with Magpies? Do these stimulate? Esther: The fact that we were friends and that I could include them in our activities at the department, I think that was a very stimulating period of time for them. Somehow with my successors, it did not happen in that same way. But it seems that now, with the new generation at the school in Geneva, they are trying again to create this link and this relationship with collectors. They might succeed. I think so. It’s about transmitting your passion, and it’s about exchanging ideas. It’s about generosity from one part, and the other that makes things can make things happen. Sharon: You certainly have made things happen. Thank you for being with us today. I greatly, greatly appreciate it. Esther: Thank you for having me, and thank you for giving me the opportunity to talk about all this. Thanks. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 213 Part 1: The Inspiration Behind Esther Brinkmann’s Shapeshifting Rings
11/29/2023
Episode 213 Part 1: The Inspiration Behind Esther Brinkmann’s Shapeshifting Rings
What you’ll learn in this episode: How Esther’s experiences in China and India continue to influence her work today Why different materials have different meanings, and how that impacts the wearer Why the relationship between a jewelry artist and a customer is particularly special and intimate How wearing jewelry influences the way we move through the world The most important qualities a jewelry teacher should have About Esther Brinkmann Esther Brinkmann is an independent jewelry maker living and working in Switzerland. Her work has been exhibited in galleries throughout the world and is held in the collections of the National Museum of Switzerland, Musée des Arts Décoratifs in Paris, Museo Internazionale delle Arti Applicate Oggi (MIAAO) in Torino, and the V&A in London. She established the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD) in Geneva, the first jewelry education program of its kind in the country. Additional Resources: Esther’s Esther’s Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Jewelry artist Esther Brinkmann makes her rings with intention, considering everything from the meaning of the material used to the way the shape of the ring will change how the wearer moves their hands. She has passed this perspective down to hundreds of students at the Haute École d’Art et de Design (HEAD), the jewelry program she founded in Geneva. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about how living in China and India made her question her identity and influenced her work; why many of her rings are designed to fit different sized hands; and what makes the relationship between artist and wearer so special. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week. I recently went to Switzerland with Art Jewelry Forum. One of the afternoons we had was at Esther Brinkmann’s home. It was a very memorable lunch and afternoon. We got to see her studio, and on top of that, we had an unforgettable luncheon cooked by her husband, Warner. Esther’s work is very well known, although it’s not known so much here. It is found in prestigious museums. She was influenced by culture, especially in India and China, where she lived for more than 20 years with her diplomat husband. We also met a collectors’ club, the Magpies, which you’ll hear about. She’ll talk more about her philosophy and her jewelry. Esther, welcome to the podcast. Esther: Thank you very much, Sharon, for inviting me to talk about my practice as an artist and as an educator. Thank you. Sharon: You’re welcome. I’m glad you’re here. I was going to ask you why you think there are only certain areas of the world where your jewelry is known. For instance, I don’t think it’s known here. I don’t know it. I haven’t seen the jewelry here. If somebody said to me, “It’s an Esther Brinkmann piece,” I wouldn’t know what that meant. Esther: That’s a difficult question. I guess it’s because I have never been collaborating with an American gallery, although I think I have a few pieces in American collections. My focus was, for many years, on European countries. As you were saying, we were living in China and India for 10 years, so I could show my work in those two countries. But America, it was a little bit far away, I think. Sharon: Do you have more work in China and India and Europe than other places? I guess I’m asking that about China and India. Is your work more well-known there? Esther: China and India are huge countries with numbers and numbers and millions and millions of people. I’m not very known in those two countries, but I am known in different universities, in different cities, as an ambassador for jewelry. When I was living in China and in India, I was given the opportunity to have a lot of lectures and workshops with students there, so I could introduce this idea, which was quite a western idea of artisan jewelry. In India as in China, it was not at all a topic. Sharon: The lectures or conferences you had, was it because you were part of a school? Was it just private? Esther: No, it was because when we lived in those two countries, I contacted different universities that had jewelry departments or fashion departments, design departments, and I offered to give lectures and workshops about art jewelry. I was welcomed with open arms. Sharon: So, you basically made your niche, I want to say. You created it. You weren’t asked, but you created it. Esther: I would not say I created it, but I participated, and I stimulated young people in those two countries to go into individual creative and experimental jewelry. Things happen also because there is something in the air. The time was right to do that, and they were interested in it. Sharon: If you had come 20 or 10 years earlier, would they have been interested? Esther: I don’t think so. Sharon: Your favorite piece, the one most written about, is a ring that’s a double ring. It’s not made of two rings, but it’s comprised of two rings. Esther: Yes. Sharon: How did that come about? Esther: That came in the early 80s, when I started as an independent jewelry maker. It was the trend at that time. All of us tried to make multiple pieces. That means a big number of pieces, inexpensive pieces, for everybody. At that time, I had the idea of a ring. It was made of an industrially made aluminum tube with an incision on top where I introduced a rubber ring. This ring could regulate the size of the inner hole. I realized that I created this ring for a functional reason. Many people could wear the same ring and they filled the same space more or less. At that time, I suddenly realized how interesting it is to have a ring with space around the finger. I focused on this concept, on this idea, and developed many different other shapes from then on. That’s how the double ring came, a ring which is too big for your finger and a second ring which is open. The tubular ring is open and leaves space around the finger, and you fit in a second, smaller ring which holds the thing on your finger. That is quite complicated to explain. Sharon: I didn’t understand the big ring was supposed to be big and the little ring— Esther: The big ring is too large for your finger. The smaller ring inside fits and is held back on your finger. It’s an aesthetic decision, but it’s also functional because the bigger ring can be worn again by many different sizes of hands because the smaller ring fits inside. I can adapt to different sizes. Sharon: Do you have blanks you use, where you cut and these rings are this size and these rings are this size? Esther: With the many years of experience I have, I know more or less the range of sizes of rings and fingers. I know, for instance, that women in China usually have very small hands and fingers, whereas in Holland, women have much bigger hands. Also in America, you have bigger hands and taller people. I don’t send very, very small rings to Holland, for instance. This is the experience of many, many years. So, you get a feeling for what range of sizes is fitting to different women. Sharon: Why do you think it is that different nationalities have different size hands? Esther: I think it’s not about nationalities; it’s about the body shape. Sharon: I tried on one of your rings which actually fits. You could slip a ring underneath it. I was surprised because I have large hands and mostly, they don’t fit me. I was really surprised. You started making those rings when? Esther: I started around 1985, something like that. That makes a long period of time. Sharon: What did you do with the rings or the jewelry when you were in China? Did you just keep on? Esther: In the beginning, I was a little bit lost, not in translation, but lost in this very different culture. I had many, many experiences of being the alien within a huge group of other people. That was a very special experience for me. That’s when I had the idea to create this series of brooches called “Red Face and Double.” That was really a Chinese idea. I would not have had this idea elsewhere. I had the idea of the “Red Face” because I was wondering, “How do these people perceive me? How do they see me? I see them like this and like that, and they are looking at me; they are staring at me. Who am I for these people?” Also, I didn’t know anymore exactly who I was. There were a lot of questions. That’s how I started to draw these faces. I thought, “It’s a brooch; it’s like wearing another face of mine.” It’s like showing that I’m not a person who is only one. I am multiple. With different people, I might be a different person. I think that is a reality. It depends on with whom we are. We are different people. Luckily, we are not like a stone or something which would not change. That’s how I got the idea of those brooches wearing another face. Sharon: Do you think people understood what you were trying to do? Esther: I think so. I think they could feel that it has something to do with who we are and how we see each other, how we look at the world, how flexible we are or what our competences to adapt in certain circumstances are, etc. What was certainly surprising for them was to see that you could express such ideas in a piece of jewelry. That was completely new for them. That was something very—not disturbing, but it was somehow questioning them. Sharon: Did anybody ever say to you, “That’s unusual,” or “That is really making me think twice,” or anything like that? Esther: Many people said it is unusual. I had a lovely experience with a very young student. They came to see my first exhibition in Guangzhou in the south of China. I explained to them about this idea of having another face on me, and she said, “But you know, you are new here. I’ve lived in Guangzhou for 20 years and I have never had this idea.” So, I said to her, “Yeah, you see the fact that I am a foreigner here. I am a person who is in a new surrounding, in a new environment, so I have a new perception of myself. I have also so many emotions, so many things that I discover every day and every instant.” Sharon: Did you continue to make the rings while you were there? Esther: Yes, of course, I continued to make the rings, but I introduced a new material. I started to work with jade. I was very much fascinated by this very Chinese stone there. You can see it everywhere. It’s a very popular stone. I was really fond of starting to work with and realizing pieces with jade. The second thing is, in doing so, I could start to collaborate with Chinese craftspeople, which is an interesting way to get into another culture, by doing things together, developing things together. Not only observing or being a consumer of artifacts, but sharing knowledge, sharing skills, sharing ideas and concepts is extremely enriching. That was a fabulous experience. Sharon: Did you make the rings out of just jade or other things? Esther: I made the models and then I got them carved by Chinese craftspeople. I couldn’t have done this myself. I don’t have the skill for that. Sharon: How did you communicate with these people? Esther: By bringing them a model. The first time I went to one of these carving studios with a drawing. I went with a translator. I could not speak Chinese in the beginning at all, so I went with a translator, and he said, “Oh, no, I cannot do this.” It was a very simple shape. They are able to carve Buddhas and cabbage and absolutely crazy, very complex forms and shapes, and he said, “Oh, no, I cannot do this,” and I said, “O.K., I have to find another way to communicate.” So, I went home, and I made the ring of wood. I went back and asked him, “Could you please copy this ring for me in jade?” and he said, “Of course, no problem.” Sharon: The same person? Esther: The same person. It was just the way to communicate. When he saw the drawing, he was not sure he was able to interpret the right thing, whereas with the model, he could measure. He could copy exactly the same thing. It wasn’t a problem anymore. Sharon: Did you produce a few in jade? Esther: Yes, I produced a few in jade. It’s getting dark here, Sharon. Sharon: O.K., all right, I’m sorry. Esther: No, that’s why I turned on the lights, so you could see me again. Sharon: Yes, I can see you. How long ago did you start making rings on a continuous basis? Esther: 35, 40 years. It’s a long time. Sharon: Can you tell us about your experience with the rings in India? Esther: When we arrived in India, the first impressions that I got were the fabulous world of colors and patterns on textiles, on temples, on saris. Wherever you look, you will see fabulous combinations of colors and ornaments, motifs and patterns, flowers, birds and things like that. I thought, “This is the moment for me to try to introduce motifs and decorations to my very simple shapes.” So, I started to draw flowers and birds influenced by these jewelry pieces from the Mughal Period, which I find absolutely fantastic. I was lucky to find an enamel master, a skilled craftsman in Rajasthan, in Jaipur, who could realize my rings. I made the metal ring gold or silver. I drew the pattern on it, the motif, and he realized the enamel. Sharon: Was there any problem in communicating with them? Esther: There were many problems because our temperaments are completely different. Of course, our sense of aesthetics is also different. In the beginning, he said, “Esther, I will draw you things in a better way. I can do this for you. I can make much better motifs than what you are drawing,” and I said, “This is not the deal we did. I have my own ideas. I don’t want to make Indian jewelry. I make my own jewelry, and I want you to realize, with your fantastic skill, the best enamel I can get.” It also took some time to discuss and to find how to communicate. In the end, it worked very well, but it worked very well because I went to his studio. I stayed a few days there; I worked together with him. I could not work with him from this distance now from Switzerland. That would not be possible. Sharon: We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out.
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Episode 212 Part 2 Inside Appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s Extensive Jewelry Library
11/17/2023
Episode 212 Part 2 Inside Appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s Extensive Jewelry Library
What you’ll learn in this episode: Which essential jewelry books you should have in your library Why books are so much more reliable than internet research when it comes to gemstones and jewelry Why the Renaissance opened up a new world of adornment An overview of the periods of jewelry and how they overlapped and influenced one another How cultural turning points, like World War II and the South African diamond rush, influenced what materials were used during different time periods About Jo Ellen Cole Jo Ellen Cole is the owner of Cole Appraisal Services and the director of fine jewelry at Abell Auctions. She earned her Graduate Gemologist Diploma at the Gemological Institute of America in Santa Monica and successfully passed the prestigious Gemological Association of Great Britain’s FGA examinations. Additional resources: Gemological and Jewelry Books for a Professional Library: GEMOLOGICAL IDENTIFICATION BOOKS Gemstones: Their Sources, Descriptions and Identification, Webster, Robert Gem Testing, Anderson, Basil Handbook of Gemstone Identification, Liddicoat Jr., Richard T. Gem and Ornamental Materials of Organic Origin, Pedersen, Maggie Campbell Gemstones of the World, Schumann, Walter Photoatlas of Inclusions in Gemstones, Vols. 1, 2 and 3, Gubelin, Edward and Koivula, John Color Encyclopedia of Gemstones, Arem, Joel The Spectroscope and Gemmology, Anderson, Basil and Payne, James, edited by Mitchell, R. Keith GENERAL REFERENCE Gemology, An Annotated Bibliography, Sinkankas, John The Complete Handbook for Gemstone Weight Estimation, Carmona, Charles Dictionary of Gems and Gemology, Shipley, Robert The Jewelers Manual, Liddicoat Jr., Richard T. and Copeland, Lawrence L. Gemstone and Mineral Data Book, Sinkankas, John DIAMONDS Diamonds, Bruton, Eric Diamond Cutting: Complete Guide to Cutting Diamonds, Watermeyer, Basil Famous Diamonds, Balfour, Ian Hardness 10, Vleeschdrager, Eddy Diamond Handbook, Newman, Renee Laboratory Grown Diamonds, Simic, Dusan and Deljanin, Branko Fluorescence as a Tool for Diamond Origin Identification – A Guide, Chapman, John, Deljanin, Branko and Spyromilios, George PEARLS Book of the Pearl, Kunz, George F. and Stevenson, Charles Hugh Pearls, Strack, Elizabeth Beyond Price, Donkin, R.A. JADE Jade, A Gemmologist’s Guide, Hughes, Richard Jade For You, Ng, John Y. and Root, Edmund COLORED STONES Ruby and Sapphire, Hughes, Richard Emerald and Other Beryls, Sinkankas, John Opal Identification and Value, Downing, Paul JEWELRY HISTORY Brilliant Effects, Pointon, Marcia Understanding Jewelry, Bennett, David, and Mascetti, Daniella Jewelry in America, Fales, Margha Gandy Victorian Jewellery, Flowers, Margaret Transcript: In appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s opinion, the best thing a jewelry lover can have is a well-stocked library. Information on gems and jewelry abounds online today, but much of that information is incorrect. For that reason, Jo Ellen—a Graduate Gemologist who also passed Gem-A’s FGA examination—turns to books when she has a question about a specific piece, hallmark or stone. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to share which books she recommends for every jewelry interest; how jewelry trends shifted over the years due to cultural forces; and how to quickly identify the characteristics of different jewelry periods. Read the episode transcript here.
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Episode 212 Part 1: Inside Appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s Extensive Jewelry Library
11/15/2023
Episode 212 Part 1: Inside Appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s Extensive Jewelry Library
What you’ll learn in this episode: Which essential jewelry books you should have in your library Why books are so much more reliable than internet research when it comes to gemstones and jewelry Why the Renaissance opened up a new world of adornment An overview of the periods of jewelry and how they overlapped and influenced one another How cultural turning points, like World War II and the South African diamond rush, influenced what materials were used during different time periods About Jo Ellen Cole Jo Ellen Cole is the owner of Cole Appraisal Services and the director of fine jewelry at Abell Auctions. She earned her Graduate Gemologist Diploma at the Gemological Institute of America in Santa Monica and successfully passed the prestigious Gemological Association of Great Britain’s FGA examinations. Additional resources: Gemological and Jewelry Books for a Professional Library: GEMOLOGICAL IDENTIFICATION BOOKS Gemstones: Their Sources, Descriptions and Identification, Webster, Robert Gem Testing, Anderson, Basil Handbook of Gemstone Identification, Liddicoat Jr., Richard T. Gem and Ornamental Materials of Organic Origin, Pedersen, Maggie Campbell Gemstones of the World, Schumann, Walter Photoatlas of Inclusions in Gemstones, Vols. 1, 2 and 3, Gubelin, Edward and Koivula, John Color Encyclopedia of Gemstones, Arem, Joel The Spectroscope and Gemmology, Anderson, Basil and Payne, James, edited by Mitchell, R. Keith GENERAL REFERENCE Gemology, An Annotated Bibliography, Sinkankas, John The Complete Handbook for Gemstone Weight Estimation, Carmona, Charles Dictionary of Gems and Gemology, Shipley, Robert The Jewelers Manual, Liddicoat Jr., Richard T. and Copeland, Lawrence L. Gemstone and Mineral Data Book, Sinkankas, John DIAMONDS Diamonds, Bruton, Eric Diamond Cutting: Complete Guide to Cutting Diamonds, Watermeyer, Basil Famous Diamonds, Balfour, Ian Hardness 10, Vleeschdrager, Eddy Diamond Handbook, Newman, Renee Laboratory Grown Diamonds, Simic, Dusan and Deljanin, Branko Fluorescence as a Tool for Diamond Origin Identification – A Guide, Chapman, John, Deljanin, Branko and Spyromilios, George PEARLS Book of the Pearl, Kunz, George F. and Stevenson, Charles Hugh Pearls, Strack, Elizabeth Beyond Price, Donkin, R.A. JADE Jade, A Gemmologist’s Guide, Hughes, Richard Jade For You, Ng, John Y. and Root, Edmund COLORED STONES Ruby and Sapphire, Hughes, Richard Emerald and Other Beryls, Sinkankas, John Opal Identification and Value, Downing, Paul JEWELRY HISTORY Brilliant Effects, Pointon, Marcia Understanding Jewelry, Bennett, David, and Mascetti, Daniella Jewelry in America, Fales, Margha Gandy Victorian Jewellery, Flowers, Margaret Transcript: In appraiser Jo Ellen Cole’s opinion, the best thing a jewelry lover can have is a well-stocked library. Information on gems and jewelry abounds online today, but much of that information is incorrect. For that reason, Jo Ellen—a Graduate Gemologist who also passed Gem-A’s FGA examination—turns to books when she has a question about a specific piece, hallmark or stone. She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to share which books she recommends for every jewelry interest; how jewelry trends shifted over the years due to cultural forces; and how to quickly identify the characteristics of different jewelry periods. Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week. I met Jo Ellen about six or seven years ago when I was studying for the GG, or the Graduate Gemology degree. In order to pass it, I needed to identify about 18 stones and get them all right, and I only had three chances to do that. This was daunting to me because I’m not a science person; I’m not a math person or anything. I wasn’t working with the stones. I wasn’t working in a jewelry store, so I really didn’t have the opportunity to handle the stones. I called another appraiser, Charlie Carmona, whom we’ve had on this podcast, and asked him for a recommendation for a tutor. I thought it was a pretty weird recommendation that I was asking for, but he immediately recommended Jo Ellen, and I never looked back. She’s been a great tutor. It was a few years ago, but she helped me a lot. She knows a lot about jewelry, and not just jewelry, but I find her extremely knowledgeable about vintage and antique pieces. I have talked to and been to enough appraisers to know that this is its own specialty. She’s also been helpful when it comes to directing me to researchers for whatever I need. She pointed me in the right direction. Today, she’s going to share with us the books that she thinks will help us with our jewelry journey. Jo Ellen, welcome to the program. Jo Ellen: Thank you so much for having me. I’m happy to be here. Sharon: I’m so glad that you deigned to be on. Now, tell us, with a GG, which is part of the GIA, you can do a lot of things. So, why did you go into appraisal as opposed to other things? Jo Ellen: Well, I found that I was lacking in salesmanship abilities, to say the least. I’m just not a salesperson, but I love to categorize; I love to research. Appraising seemed to fit that bill very well. Plus, when I realized that I was not good at sales, I met Charles Carmona, whom you mentioned before, at American Society of Appraisers—no, it was the AGA. I can’t remember what that stands for, but it was a meeting. I met him, and a couple of years later, he asked me to work with him and I jumped on it. It was a wonderful experience. He’s still my mentor. He’s so knowledgeable and knows so much about appraising. I always feel comfortable talking to him about any problem I might encounter. He’s been very instrumental. Sharon: And a big name in the L.A. market, I would say. Jo Ellen: He’s really gone worldwide. He has three laboratories in China and Thailand as well. Sharon: I didn’t realize that. Jo Ellen: Yeah, he’s really opened up his market. He also leads a lot of traveling groups and things. He’s very well-known. Sharon: I knew he was well-known in Los Angeles, but I didn’t know he was that well-known around the world. Jo Ellen: Having factories in Africa, he’s been around doing a lot of different things. Sharon: I’ve stopped purchasing books when it comes to novels or something like that. I just listen to them. Why should I purchase a book as opposed to listening online when it comes to jewelry? Why should I purchase a jewelry book? Jo Ellen: What I’ve noticed is that when I go online to research prices of jewelry, which I do often, I find that a lot of the information I find is not correct. I think part of the reason for that is because it’s so easy to list something online. It gets your name out there, so people do that. However, they don’t always double check their information. There’s a lot of misinformation out there. Whereas in a book, it takes a lot longer to set it up, edit it, make sure everything’s proper. I’ve been able to count on the information coming from books a lot better than I have been from online sources. However, I must say there is certainly a good reason to look online as well. Some of the information is very good. It’s just that, personally, I feel more comfortable with a book form. Then, you can revisit that if you need to. It’s easier to find. Sharon: Do you have to know if it’s right or wrong before you look at a book? Jo Ellen: You have to figure that out on your own. But generally, if you have a good background in terms of knowledge of gems and gemology and antique jewelry from reading through books, a lot of times, you’ll find that information is incorrect when you go online. Sharon: I know instances where I’ve found incorrect information about pearls or something like that. I wouldn’t say I’m any kind of expert, but I know it’s incorrect. Jo Ellen: Yeah. Sharon: Can you tell us quickly what you do every day? What does an appraiser do every day? Jo Ellen: If I’m not reviewing a book for a gemological publication like The Gemologist or Gems & Gemology, which doesn’t do book reviews anymore—but a lot of times, I’m asked by people in the industry to review new books. So, I do that a lot, which involves going over the book line by line and figuring out what I think is proper and what isn’t, or what is clear and what is not. I do that a lot. I also work at a local auctioneer two days a week, at Abell Auctions, as their fine jewelry director. I’m constantly cataloguing things and looking for prices on things, always encountering something unusual there. You get things from all over the world, and people like to use that venue as a way to sell their items. If I’m not doing that, I’m actually going to people’s localities to appraise their jewelry for them, either for insurance purposes or for estate purposes if somebody has passed or wants to set up a trust. I do that a lot, but a lot of my days are spent doing what I love, which is reading. Sharon: You sound pretty conscientious to look at a book that closely when you’re writing a book review. Jo Ellen: For me, it’s really important to get it right. Generally, most books, even if I don’t particularly like them, I can at least validate that their information is correct. I did have one book about a year-and-a-half ago that was just so egregious in its information I had to give it a bad review, which I’ve never done before. I called up the editor the week before it was due and said, “Why are you even covering this book? It’s so awful.” He asked why, and I started pointing out little things. He was like, “Oh,” but he published the review anyhow. I didn’t feel great about it because I don’t like to slam people for things, but it was just so awful I had to point it out. Sharon: So, we should do our own reading, both online and with books. Jo Ellen: Absolutely. Sharon: Let’s talk about a book or books and talk about the history. If you want to learn about the history of jewelry through the ages, what would you look at? Jo Ellen: There are a couple of really good books. When you write a book, it seems like the best formula is always to start at the beginning and take them through the ages. That’s what they do with jewelry history. Usually, they’ll start with prehistoric jewelry and how jewelry first came to be—it’s one of the oldest things that humans have done that marks them as humans—and then it goes through medieval times and Renaissance, and then to Georgian and Victorian and Arts and Crafts or the Aesthetic Period, and then through Art Nouveau and Art Deco and Retro and on up to modern jewelry for today. That’s usually how a book on jewelry history is set up. There are couple of really good ones out there that encapsulate what you need to know in terms of jewelry history. Sharon: Before you tell us that, I wanted to tell our listeners that we will have all this information on the website. Yes, take notes, but you don’t have to write everything down; it’ll be on our website. Jo Ellen: Yeah, I created a list of things that you can look for. One of the main books I recommend for overall jewelry history is a book called “Understanding Jewelry.” It’s by David Bennett and Daniela Mascetti, who were both cataloguers at Sotheby’s for many years and very knowledgeable in their field. It really helps to set up all those different ages of jewelry and gives wonderful examples and photographs. It’s a picture book as well as an informative book, but all the information they offer has always been spot-on. I’ve learned so much from that book. It’s one that I would definitely recommend. Sharon: I’ve probably seen it in every jewelry office that has books. I see that book. Jo Ellen: It’s a great book. It really is. Another good one that’s much simpler and has more pictures is a book called “Warman’s Jewelry.” Sharon: Warman’s? Jo Ellen: Yeah, W-A-R-M-A-N. The second edition was actually written by a good friend of mine, Christie Romero, who has since passed on. She used to be on the Antiques Roadshow. You’d see her on Antiques Roadshow a lot, a very knowledgeable woman. She had started her journey by traveling down to Mexico and learning all about Mexican silver and then just expanded from there. She used to give classes on jewelry at Valley College in Los Angeles. She just knew how to present things in such a way that it was very easy to assimilate that information. It has tons and tons of pictures. It also has a jewelry timeline. It’s very thorough for being such an easily read book. There are even some prices in there, I think. It’s now an older book, and I think there have been other editions that have been written since hers, but I always liked hers because I’m familiar with it. So, that’s another good one that I would offer. Sharon: What about a book if we want to be more specific, like Georgian or Victorian jewelry? It’s funny that when you say prehistoric, you could take many of the prehistoric pieces and wear them today and nobody would know the difference. But it seems to jump then to Renaissance. Jo Ellen: Because it has to do with the Dark Ages. A lot of it is about human history and civilization. During the Dark Ages, people were in such terrible shape as a civilization, they didn’t have time to decorate themselves, so they usually used items from the past. There wasn’t a lot of information coming out between, let’s say, the 5th and 13th centuries. Then things started rolling again once society got more stabilized. Sharon: Is there a particular book we should look at if we want to pick up where society picked up? Let’s say Georgian. Jo Ellen: There’s a really good book on jewels of the Renaissance by Yvonne Hackenbroch. It’s quite a tome. It’s big, and it goes through the history of civilization as well as jewelry. It talks about the light occurring in the beginning of the Renaissance, when people started realizing there’s more to life than just eating and sleeping and staying alive. You can decorate yourself. You can show your social status by what you wear, some of it being jewelry. That’s a very good book for the Renaissance period. There’s also another Renaissance book called “Renaissance Jewels and Jeweled Objects: From the Melvin Gutman Collection” by Parker Lesley. It shows wonderful examples of Renaissance-oriented jewelry. There’s one called the Hope Pearl Jewel. It’s this big, baroque pearl that’s decorated as the body of a man. It’s very well known. It demonstrates jewels like that. Sharon: From there, does it continue to Georgian and Victorian? Jo Ellen: Yeah, there’s a really good book, “Georgian Jewelry 1714-1830,” by Ginny Redington and Tom Dawes with Olivia Collings. It’s great because I had never seen a book specifically on Georgian jewelry. It’s not glamorous jewelry because the techniques weren’t there. It’s just that people wanted to adorn themselves to help their social status. It’s very collectable today. People collect Georgian jewelry all the time. It goes through the period before Queen Victoria took the throne and clarifies a lot of things. And, again, the information is spot-on. I’ve never had a problem with these books. When I go to confirm that information, I’ve never had a problem with it. Sharon: I don’t collect Georgian jewelry, but I do know it’s very hard to find. Jo Ellen: Yeah, it is, but it shows up at different auctions, sometimes in the most unusual places. Even at Abell Auctions you’ll see it. People just hold onto these things. A lot of Georgian jewelry isn’t available anymore because people would melt down those items to make new items in a newer fashion, such as a Victorian fashion. They would take the stones out, melt down the metals and then either recast them or remake them in some way into a newer-looking form. That’s why you don’t see a lot of Georgian jewelry anymore. Sharon: How about Victorian jewelry? There seems to be a lot of it. Jo Ellen: There’s a lot of Victorian jewelry. Even though people also did it then, where they would melt things down and make a new piece out of older pieces, there is a lot of Victorian jewelry because Queen Victoria, whom that period is named after, wore a lot of jewelry. She was a big jewelry person. She loved jewelry and she used it for sentimental reasons to give imagery, to bestow favor on people. So, there’s a lot of it around because people would want to copy her. Everybody started doing that. You’ll have mourning jewelry from Victorian times. A lot of historical things happened during her reign, such as the finding of diamonds in South Africa, which changed the diamond market forever. Before then, there were diamonds from Brazil, primarily, or India, but they’re very hard to come by and very, very expensive. Once they opened up the diamond fields in South Africa, you started getting a lot more diamond jewelry. Sharon: By mourning, you mean if somebody dies? Jo Ellen: Yeah. A lot of times, when someone would die, they would leave a certain amount of money in their will to make mourning rings or pendants for their friends and family to remember them by. So, you have this memento mori-type jewelry which has its own collecting base. People collect their little pendants, which are like little baskets with a little enamel skeleton inside, little rings that say the man or woman’s name written around the inside of the band, all sorts of things like that. It’s kind of sweet because, when you think about it, jewelry is one of the few art forms that’s worn close to the body. It makes it more sentimental. Sharon: And the diamonds from South Africa, were they different than the other diamonds, besides being less expensive? Jo Ellen: The thing with Brazilian diamonds in particular is that they had what they call a lot of knots in them, where their crystals grow into crystals. You would have these harder-to-polish areas. With African diamonds, it’s such a pure form that they’re easier to polish. They didn’t take as much time to polish, and they didn’t break on the wheel the way that some of the Brazilian diamonds would break. Sharon: They used those diamonds in Victorian jewelry? Jo Ellen: They did. Sharon: What books should we look at if we want to learn about Victorian jewelry? Jo Ellen: There is a wonderful book—in fact, I used to know an antique dealer that used to give out these books to his clients because they were wonderfully organized. There’s a book called “Victorian Jewelry” by Margaret Flower, and it goes through the different phases of Victorian jewelry. There’s an early, a mid and a late phase. What she does is describe exactly what you can see during each of the phases, what types of jewelry. It’s very interesting, and it gives you an overall picture of how things came to be during that time period. It’s really nicely done. There’s a much larger book I’m still reading because it’s so big. It’s called “Jewelry in the Age of Queen Victoria” by Charlotte Gere and Judy Rudoe. That also has a lot of very specific information on different types of jewelry, the makers during that time. What’s interesting is you’ll see the same authors over and over again because these people really use it. It’s their way to...
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Episode 211 Part 2: Canadian Artist Colette Harmon on How Her Over-the-Top Jewelry Got its Start
11/10/2023
Episode 211 Part 2: Canadian Artist Colette Harmon on How Her Over-the-Top Jewelry Got its Start
What you’ll learn in this episode: What the difference between an artist and a designer is The barriers that can make it difficult for solo jewelry artists to enter the retail market, and how Colette overcame them What Colette has discovered about her creative process by working with George Brown College psychology students on a research project Why it’s important for artists to avoid looking at trends in stores and on social media too frequently How a spontaneous haircut sparked Colette’s creativity and paved the way for her future business About Colette Harmon Colette Harmon’s one-of-a-kind accessories are a dazzling blend of crystal, mixed metals and semi-precious stones. With an appreciation for meticulous craftsmanship, the metal meshing and intricate beadwork in each of her statement pieces are an audacious departure from mainstream minimalism. Born in Sisters Village, Guyana, Colette studied fashion design in Toronto before apprenticing as a belt and handbag designer for a leather goods manufacturer. Harmon soon founded her own eponymous label, whose name became synonymous with maximalist glamour. Harmon’s modern approach to vintage flair has earned her a devoted following of customers, fans and fashion stylists from across North America. Her pieces have been sold in Saks Fifth Avenue and Holt Renfrew Canada, and her work has been featured in Elle Canada, Flare, Martha Stewart Weddings and Nylon. She currently focusses on one-of-a-kind couture creations for select clientele. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Colette Harmon has seen many trends come and go over the course of her career, but she has never let that influence her work. She has always found an audience for her one-of-a-kind jewelry, even when her hallmark maximalism is supposedly “out.” She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why she defines herself as an artist; how she nurtures her creative vision; and how her job as a leather accessories designer led to jewelry (and how that experience may come full circle in the near future). Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the second part of a two-part episode. If you haven’t heard part one, please head to TheJewelryJourney.com. Today, my guest is Colette Harmon, who is speaking to us from Canada. Toronto to be more specific. I have to say I’ve never met her, and I’ve never seen her jewelry in person, but it’s my kind of jewelry. It’s over-the-top kind of jewelry. You may have seen it on a celebrity on the stage or screen, but if you’ve seen it, you’d remember it. Welcome back. Do people bring the dresses? Do they bring the materials or some things? Colette: Yeah, sometimes they do. If they bring the actual garment, then I can see how the neckline falls and how the piece of jewelry would sit on the dress. Sharon: Has somebody, a client or a stylist, ever come and tried the dress on and you just didn’t like the dress? Forget the necklace; you just didn’t like the dress on them. Colette: Oh yeah, but if they’re wearing it, I can’t say, “I don’t like your dress.” Yeah, there have been people who have. Sharon: You told us that you like the fact that people like your stuff, that’s pleasing to you. Colette: Mm-hmm. Sharon: What are some of the bigger obstacles you’ve encountered besides sales, let’s say? Colette: In terms of? Sharon: In terms of anything. Being in the business, what are some of the obstacles? Colette: I mentioned before I found wholesaling difficult. Being a small business, I found that doing wholesale was challenging at times. Just being a one-woman show can be tough at times. There were times when I had people helping me, but often when you’re creating—as I’m working with the students at George Brown, it was difficult to tell someone because I don’t sketch. I create as I’m going. They are helping me create these pieces, but it’s difficult to tell someone what you’re creating if it’s in your head. A lot of times I might say to them, “O.K., do this this way,” and then they start doing it, and then I see something else and they have to undo it. It’s easier for me to create the original piece and then have someone duplicate it, as opposed to having people helping me create something. Sharon: You said the college is George Brown. That’s the university? Colette: Yeah, it’s a college here in Toronto. They’re doing a case study of me where they’re studying my creative process and documenting how I create. Sharon: What’s the first step they documented of you creating? Colette: The first session was just an interview of me and my background. The piece that we’re working on now—I brought a bunch of materials. I had no idea what I was going to do with them. So, they’re watching how I work and how I put things together. They’re asking me questions as I go on, like why did I do this? They’re documenting how I go from start to finish, if that makes any sense. Sharon: Are they talking to a lot of creative people? Colette: I think what happened was Leah saw my work on Instagram. I’m not sure how she found me. She found me on Instagram, but I’m not sure how she found my work on Instagram. She was really inspired. In her words, she said she was blown away by my pieces. Because we’re both in Toronto and she’s been in fashion for a number of years, she wondered why she didn’t know who I was. So, she contacted me and I went to see her. She asked me to bring some of my pieces, so I did. Then she came up with this idea and approached the college for a grant. There’s myself, her, and two students she recruited, and they’re documenting my creative process. Like I said, there really isn’t a creative process. I feel like—what’s that word when they say that—people will find out I’m a fraud because there really isn’t a creative process. I can make it sound more than what it is, but I just play. I think everybody has a gift, and my gift is just the way I put things together. There isn’t anything technical. Sharon: Can you tell us more about what you see the end product being with these students? Colette: That’s the thing; I have no idea. I could send you a picture of the piece I’m creating now. I can tell you a little bit about that, but it would be— Sharon: I’ll talk to you after the podcast about what we need for pictures. I want my listeners to know that usually I have a picture of somebody, even though I only post the audio, but I don’t even know what Colette looks like. Colette: Oh, I can send you a picture. Sharon: Are you the exotic-looking one in the ads? Colette: In the ads? Which ads? Sharon: The ads for the website, let’s say. Colette: On my website? Sharon: Are you the model? Do you have a model? Colette: Sometimes I model. I’m not sure which images you’re referring to, but I think there are one or two images of me on the website. There are a couple of me on Instagram. I wouldn’t call myself a model, but I do model my jewelry on occasion. A number of the images of myself were taken by a friend of mine, a photographer whose name is Michael Chambers. I’ve done some work with him over the years. I wouldn’t call myself a model, but I have modeled my jewelry. I have a shaved head, and I can tell you the story about that. My cousin worked in a hair salon. One day I was visiting, and there was a gentleman there; his name was Stephan. He had this beautiful, long, curly blond hair. He looked at me one day and said, “You know, I’m going to shave your head.” I was young, and when you’re young and crazy, I said, “O.K.” So, he took a straight razor—I would never do it again with a straight razor—and shaved my head. Then we did a photoshoot where he made bird’s nests out of—I couldn’t even remember what it was made out of. I think maybe feathers and all these different, crazy things, and he put them on my bald head and we did this photoshoot. But I didn’t like it because I was young, and I was wearing a lot of hairpieces. Hair was very important to me and to everyone, so I didn’t like it. I don’t know if I told him I didn’t like it, but I was like, “Oh god, what did I do?” I remember I came home, and my mom was like, “Why did you do that?” Everywhere I went, everyone hated it. This was a time when there were no bald women around. It was before social media. I didn’t know that in Africa there are tons of women like that, but you didn’t see any bald women around. I remember I would be walking by, and I would hear people whisper, “Maybe she has cancer.” A lot of people didn’t like it because it was such a drastic change from what I looked like before. Now all of a sudden, you have no hair. But I kept it for spite. Just because people didn’t like it, I thought, “I’m going to keep it.” I think I would shave it every week, like once a week or something. The more I did it, the more I liked it. Now that I’m saying it, I think that played a role with the jewelry because I would have this bald head, so the jewelry became more elaborate. Stephan saw it. My logo is now my head, like a silhouette. The silhouette of my head is my actual logo. I think he saw something I didn’t see. Do you know what I mean? A friend of mine designed my logo. He took a picture of my shadow against the wall with the bald head. Then he took a picture of my jewelry and scanned it onto the image of the head. I would never change that. I think it’s such a beautiful logo. I love my bald head, and I think it really works with the jewelry. It's so striking, for a lack of a better word. But I always remember after I did it, for years my mother kept saying, “Why don’t you grow your hair?” Then one day she looked at me and said, “You know what? I think of all the hair styles you’ve ever had, that suits you the most.” I do have a nice-shaped head, if I can say so myself, but everybody always compliments me on my—I can’t remember what your question was. I went off into a tangent, but I think you asked me. I don’t think of myself as exotic, but I think other people might use that word. Sharon: The model on the website is Black. You’re Black, right? Colette: Yeah, I can’t remember what’s on there. I think there are a couple of images of Black models on there. I think there are one or two of me on there with a shaved head, and then there are a couple on Instagram. Sharon: You’re Black though, right? Colette: I am a Black woman, yes. Sharon: Do you sell a lot through Instagram? You mentioned it several times. Colette: Do I sell a lot on Instagram? Sharon: Mm-hmm. Colette: No, I never pursued doing sales on Instagram. That’s why I was thinking of creating a collection of simple pieces like belts and bags, where I could sell online through social media. I find that the pieces I do, you have to try them on. If you’re not able to try it on, I think a lot of things would end up coming back just because you have to be able to see the scale. I’ve never had a problem with returns. In all the years I’ve been doing this, I think I’ve only had one piece returned. It was a charm bracelet. It was a woman in one of the eastern states. She saw it in a magazine. She ordered it, and she sent it back because it was too big for her. She wasn’t used to wearing that. It’s a lot. You have to try it on. That’s why I was thinking of doing some simpler pieces where I could sell in volume if some pieces come back, if one or two are returned. But I think the pieces I create now, a lot of them would end up coming back just because you need to try them on. Sharon: I never thought about that before, that if you don’t have hair, you need something else. You need the jewelry. You need something to replace it in a sense, to draw the eye. Colette: I don’t think you have to, but I think it works well with the jewelry. It’s like a blank canvas. There is no distraction. Your eye goes straight to it. I have necklaces. I have a preference when I create. If it’s a line, I always start off with the necklace, and then I create pieces that go with that. It always starts off as an elaborate neckpiece. Then I might simplify it or do some more simple pieces that are very similar: earrings or bracelets, a belt, maybe a beaded belt or a chainmail belt or something. But for me, it always starts with the neck. I used to wear earrings a lot when I was younger, but I haven’t worn earrings in years. Now, I mainly wear necklaces. I don’t like things on my hands, only because I work with my hands and I don’t really like things on my hands. It’s mostly neck pieces. I do a lot of belts, beaded and chain belts. A lot of the pieces I create in general are very versatile, where you can wear it on your neck or you can wear it on your waist. There are pieces I have that you can wear as a shawl; you can wear as a necklace; you can wrap it on your waist and wear it as a belt. A lot of the pieces I do are versatile. You can wear them many different ways. I do that purposely. I always try to create pieces that you can wear in multiple ways. Sharon: I’m surprised to hear that. What I have seen are the photos that are online, which are just repetitions of what’s on your website. Were you influenced by the baldness? I went through a period where I was bald, but I had people come up and say— Colette: You did? Sharon: Yeah, I did. People came up to me and they would say, “Oh, I wish I had the guts to do that.” Do they come up and say that to you or anything? Colette: Not so much anymore. You see it now everywhere, whereas when I was doing it, when I started, there was hardly anyone. Now, nobody even notices. People just walk by, whereas when I first did it, people would actually stop and stare. Now nobody cares because you see bald women everywhere, especially on social media. There are bald women. You see it quite a bit. For how long did you wear your hair bald? Sharon: Probably for a year, a year-and-a-half maybe. Colette: What made you decide to do that? Sharon: Well, basically I was going through chemotherapy and I lost my hair, but it really made me understand how important hair was to a woman or a man, what you did with it and all that. I hadn’t thought about it. Colette: Right, I think hair is important to a lot of people. People think, “Well, why would you shave it?” but I’ve never really cared about what people think about anything. As long as I like something, I don’t care. Your thoughts are your thoughts. I don’t mean you specifically, but whatever. Your thoughts are your thoughts and what you think about me is—why should I worry about what someone thinks about me? I’ve never really cared about what people say or think about how I look or about my appearance. Sharon: It’s interesting. I think most people think, “What will somebody else think if I do A, B, C or if I wear—?” Colette: Yeah, I think so too. I think as I got older, when I stopped caring about what other people thought, it was probably at the age of 16. I remember if I went shopping with friends, if you’re trying something on and they say they don’t like it, I was like, “Well, I’m going to get it just because you don’t like it.” If I like something, it doesn’t matter to me who likes it or who doesn’t like it. Sharon: I suppose you have to be that way with your jewelry. Your jewelry is gorgeous, but— Colette: It’s not for everyone. Sharon: Exactly. Colette: It’s not for everyone. There are a lot of people who think that’s gaudy. Maybe it is gaudy, but I like it. I don’t really care what people think. Sharon: It is an acquired taste. I flipped over it because I happen to like big, bold things, but there are some people who like delicate things. Colette: Who like delicate things, exactly. A lot of times, people will come to me and say, “Why do you do stuff like this?” People are always giving you advice, “Why don’t you do this?” and “Why don’t you look at this person and do what they’re doing?” Why would I do that? That’s her and I’m me. I have to be me. Why would I look at someone and imitate what they’re doing? For me, I always have to be true to myself. I have to create what is in me. I think that’s what makes us all unique; we’re all different. I find a lot of times, everybody’s trying to create or do what everyone else is doing. The last time I was out in the shops, it was maybe a couple of years ago. We have a mall here called Yorkdale. I was at Yorkdale Mall. I don’t know if you’re familiar with that. It’s a high-end department store here in Canada. I’m looking, and there was—I can’t remember the names, but I’ll just say there was a Gucci chain bracelet. Then I would go somewhere else, and it was Yves Saint Laurent, but it was the exact same bracelet. It was just a different label. I’m not joking. It was the exact same. I don’t understand that. I find everybody, even with jewelry, it’s all the same. I don’t know if it still is because I haven’t really looked at anything, but it’s all the same. I’ve heard people say that to me too, that when they’re out, everything looks the same, like no one is different. I guess something sells, so everybody does it. There’s some jewelry, I think it’s Tiffany that does it. I don’t know what it’s called, but it’s links and it has balls on the end. It’s a chain link at Tiffany. I think Tiffany did it originally, but I see that everywhere, even high-end designers with the same link they just copied from Tiffany. I think, “Why not just create your own?” Anyway, I guess if something sells, everybody does it. Sharon: We’re going full circle to why you’re an artist and not a designer, why you call yourself an artist. I really appreciate your being with us today. I hope we can do this again. Thank you very much, Colette. Colette: Thank you so much for having me, Sharon. It was a pleasure. Thank you. Sharon: It was great. We will have photos posted on the website. Please head to TheJewelryJourney.com to check them out. Thank you again for listening. Please leave us a rating and review so we can help others start their own jewelry journey.
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Episode 211 Part 1: Canadian Artist Colette Harmon on How Her Over-the-Top Jewelry Got its Start
11/08/2023
Episode 211 Part 1: Canadian Artist Colette Harmon on How Her Over-the-Top Jewelry Got its Start
What you’ll learn in this episode: What the difference between an artist and a designer is The barriers that can make it difficult for solo jewelry artists to enter the retail market, and how Colette overcame them What Colette has discovered about her creative process by working with George Brown College psychology students on a research project Why it’s important for artists to avoid looking at trends in stores and on social media too frequently How a spontaneous haircut sparked Colette’s creativity and paved the way for her future business About Colette Harmon Colette Harmon’s one-of-a-kind accessories are a dazzling blend of crystal, mixed metals and semi-precious stones. With an appreciation for meticulous craftsmanship, the metal meshing and intricate beadwork in each of her statement pieces are an audacious departure from mainstream minimalism. Born in Sisters Village, Guyana, Colette studied fashion design in Toronto before apprenticing as a belt and handbag designer for a leather goods manufacturer. Harmon soon founded her own eponymous label, whose name became synonymous with maximalist glamour. Harmon’s modern approach to vintage flair has earned her a devoted following of customers, fans and fashion stylists from across North America. Her pieces have been sold in Saks Fifth Avenue and Holt Renfrew Canada, and her work has been featured in Elle Canada, Flare, Martha Stewart Weddings and Nylon. She currently focusses on one-of-a-kind couture creations for select clientele. Additional Resources: Photos Available on TheJewelryJourney.com Transcript: Colette Harmon has seen many trends come and go over the course of her career, but she has never let that influence her work. She has always found an audience for her one-of-a-kind jewelry, even when her hallmark maximalism is supposedly “out.” She joined the Jewelry Journey Podcast to talk about why she defines herself as an artist; how she nurtures her creative vision; and how her job as a leather accessories designer led to jewelry (and how that experience may come full circle in the near future). Read the episode transcript here. Sharon: Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Jewelry Journey Podcast. This is the first part of a two-part episode. Please make sure you subscribe so you can hear part two as soon as it’s released later this week. Today, my guest is Colette Harmon, who is speaking to us from Canada. Toronto to be more specific. I have to say I’ve never met her, and I’ve never seen her jewelry in person, but it’s my kind of jewelry. It’s over-the-top kind of jewelry. You may have seen it on a celebrity on the stage or screen, but if you’ve seen it, you’d remember it. I couldn’t find a lot of information about Colette, so I’m going to let her tell you her story. Colette, welcome to the program. Colette: Thank you so much, Sharon. It’s a pleasure to be here. Sharon: I’m so glad to have you. It took us a while to connect, to actually make this happen. Are you a designer? How do you refer to yourself? A Canadian designer? Colette: That’s a good question. I don’t think of myself as Canadian, but I am a Canadian designer. I think of myself more as an artist as opposed to a designer. To me, a designer is someone who—can I start again? Sharon: Yes. Colette: Let me start again. To me, a designer is someone who creates things that can be worn by the masses, who is able to distill things and make them very simple so that everyone can wear them. Like you said, I’m more over the top. I don’t think about the masses. I create for myself. I create things that I, myself, would wear. I don’t really think about it, and I don’t really want the masses to wear my pieces. I want them to be unique. Maybe not one-of-a-kind, but limited editions. I don’t want to see my pieces everywhere on everybody. When you’re creating things that will be liked and appreciated by many, many people, it becomes distilled and watered down. To me, it loses its soul and its energy. Others might not think that, but that’s how I think of myself. Sharon: I just wanted to ask you, you’re from Guyana. Am I saying that right? Guyana? Colette: From Guyana, yes. I was born in a little place called Sisters Village, Guyana. Sharon: When did you come over here? Were you young or a child? Colette: I came at the age of five. I came with my parents, my mom and my dad. I have two brothers. Sharon: So, you came with your family. Colette: Yes. Sharon: And when did you start designing jewelry or other things? Colette: At a young age. I think I got my creativity from my mother. My mother was very creative. She was very musical. She sewed. She sang. She played piano. She was very creative. I think that’s where my creativity comes from. As a child, I was always drawing. I was very much in my head and my own little world as a child. I was always drawing and creating different things. I studied clothing design and thought I would be a fashion designer, a clothing designer. How I ended up in jewelry was, when I graduated from school, there was a job advertised. I went to a school called Seneca College in Toronto. When I graduated, there was a job in the paper for an accessory designer; it was a belt designer. I had taken a course in college—I think it was just one semester—an accessory-making course. So, when I graduated, I saw the ad and thought, “I can make those.” So, I applied and got the job. I did that for about a year, year-and-a-half. Then I left that job and started creating my own belts and handbags. One day I was doing a market show, and somebody asked me if I could make a pair of earrings to go with a belt they had purchased. I didn’t know anything about jewelry, so I just cut little squares and circles and covered them with leather. Looking back, they were horrible, but at the time I thought they were great. That’s how I got into jewelry. I never had any intentions of being a jewelry designer; I never thought of being a jewelry designer. That’s how I started. It just sort of happened. I have no idea. It wasn’t something I thought about, but I ended up becoming a jewelry designer. Sharon: Do you have a lot of stylists as clients? They’re women, I presume. Are they stylists? Colette: When I started doing jewelry, I started out wholesaling. I had an agent that would carry my pieces, and I sold to people like Holt Renfrew. I sold to Saks a little bit. I don’t know if you’re familiar with it, but there was a chain store here in Canada called Lipton’s. I sold to Lipton’s. I sold to better ladies’ boutiques. I got into doing custom pieces because it was very difficult wholesaling as a one-woman show. It was always very challenging getting paid on time, getting paid at all. When you’re small, I don’t know if it’s true for everyone, but with me, people like Saks, they would sometimes take six months to pay me if I got an order. It became very difficult waiting for money. So, I was doing wholesaling and custom work for a bit, and I segued into doing all custom. Sharon: Did you leave manufacturing belts to have your own business? Colette: I slowly moved away from the belts and got into jewelry. I can’t remember exactly how or when it happened, but one day, I ended up being a jewelry designer. I never thought about it. I didn’t plan it. Belts go in and out of style, so I guess there was a period where they weren’t selling as much. Belts weren’t in style, so I moved more towards jewelry. I guess I decided that I liked creating jewelry better than I did belts, and I just ended up in that field. Sharon: I want to make sure that everybody knows that the jewelry you make is made with real stones and—I call them costume things—things that aren’t real, feathers and all kinds of things. Do you have an inventory? Colette: Yes, I have quite a bit of stuff. I love to mix different things. I don’t follow any rules. I mix semiprecious with crystal and metal. Sometimes there’s sterling silver, and occasionally I’ll use a little bit of gold. A lot of it is plated. A lot of the metals are plated in either gold or silver. My strength is mixing, the way I combine different elements. I think that’s what my strength is. Some people only do semiprecious or only precious, but I like to mix and combine high and low things. I work with whatever I like. If I like something, I’ll use it. It has to speak to me. It may sound silly, but I think everything has an energy and they speak to you. They don’t speak to you in words or in language, but they have an energy and a feeling. I use what I like, what speaks to me. Sharon: Do you create these pieces before there’s a need, before somebody comes to you and says, “I need a piece,” or do you create them when they say they need a piece? Colette: I do a bit of both. Someone could come to me and say they’re going to an event. They might have a dress they need something to go with. A lot of times they just say they want a necklace and the colors and materials they would like to use, and they let me be free and do whatever. I prefer to work that way. I prefer to have creative freedom. A lot of times, someone will come and have something in mind, and I say, “That won’t work,” and they won’t listen. So, I do what they like, and you finish it and they say, “O.K., you were right.” I find a lot of people can’t visualize; they can’t see it. It usually turns out O.K. when I have creative freedom. I can’t create something that I don’t like. I have to like what I’m doing. Sharon: What do you say if somebody says to you, “I want it this way,” and you think that’s not going to look good? What do you say or how do you deal with that? Colette: I usually tell them. I’m usually very honest. Then I’ll do what they would like me to do. It usually turns out that it doesn’t look good, but that doesn’t happen very often. It usually works out pretty well. The people that come to me know what I do, so they know what to expect. Sharon: Can you tell us a little about the people that come to you? Are they women? Are they stylists? Colette: Mostly women. I do work with stylists. If someone’s doing a shoot, they might want me to create something, or they might pull from something I have. I don’t keep a lot of inventory. It’s mostly women that are going to an event or party. The past couple of years, there haven’t been very many parties, but they come to me if they’re going to a ball or a fundraiser or just for their everyday lives. They just want me to create something unique. People come to me because they want something different. I don’t pay attention to trends or what everyone is doing, so when they come to me, they know they’re getting something different. Sharon: How do they hear about you? Colette: Mostly through word of mouth. I’ve scaled back the marketing. It’s mostly through word of mouth. Sharon: Do they see someone else and say, “Where did you get that?” and then they find you? How do they find you? Colette: That happens. They might see someone else wearing one of my pieces. They might see something in a magazine. When I do editorials, people will call me. I’m in Toronto. I’ve had people call me from Vancouver after seeing something they like that they would like me to create for them. As I said, most of the pieces are either one or a limited edition. There might be pieces I’ve done when I can’t recreate them exactly, but they might be in different colors. Maybe that color is for a particular client or whatever material is not available, so it’s similar, but not exactly the same. Sharon: What surprised you most about having all these requests? Colette: I guess the most surprising thing is that there are actually people that love what I do. I don’t know if surprising is the right word. I guess it’s pleasing to know there are actually people that love it. I was known for these charm necklaces I’ve been doing for years. I had a woman that has maybe 30 of them. Sharon: That’s a lot. Colette: I guess it’s surprising and pleasing knowing that there are people that really love and appreciate my work. Sharon: Do you have other collectors besides this woman with 30 pieces? Colette: I would say I have maybe five people who—I know you’re familiar with Carole Tanenbaum. She has quite a few of my pieces. Should I say their names? Sharon: It’s up to you. Colette: There’s a woman named Nella Rosmand who has quite a few of my pieces. I have a client that lives in Yellowknife. Her name is Lisa Tousar. She used to have a store in Yellowknife. I think she’s closed it, but she’s bought a number of pieces. I had a boutique for a while. She bought a lot of pieces. She loves my work. There are maybe five or six people that have quite a few pieces. Sharon: Do they wear them more than once? Colette: I guess so. I guess they wear them. A lot of what you see on Instagram, what you mostly see, a lot of those are—I put the really over-the-top, elaborate pieces there. But I do simple pieces as well. They’re not always as elaborate as that. I also do some more subdued pieces. Sharon: Your Guyanian and Canadian background, what influence does that have? Colette: It’s actually Guyanese. Guyanian means people probably think I’m from Ghana. Guyanese is the term. I came when I was five and I’ve been back twice. I don’t know if being Guyanese has—maybe it’s something that’s subconscious, but it’s not something I think about because I grew up here. I grew up within a multicultural city, so there are influences from many places, I think. I don’t know if Guyana specifically has an influence on my work, unless it’s subconscious. I’ve had people say that my pieces look very African. I’ve had women from Africa say that it reminds them of it. But I don’t think it’s something I think about or do intentionally; I just do. I’m doing a project right now with George Brown College here in Toronto. One of the professors, Leah Barrett, approached me about studying my creative process. I chuckled to myself because I don’t really have a creative process. I could sit down and sketch something, but once I start to make it, it turns into something completely different because I get ideas as I go. As I said, the materials speak to you. I create as I go along. If I have something in my mind from the start, when I finish it, it’s something completely different. I don’t really have a creative process. It sounds silly, but I just play. That’s what I do. I play. I have to be honest. There are pieces I’ve created over the years that I don’t like, but a lot of times, those are the pieces that sell first. It’s like, “Oh my gosh, I don’t think anyone will ever buy that.” That’s the piece that goes first. I’ve sold a lot of pieces off of my neck. That’s happened quite a bit over the years. I remember once being at a party at a hotel in Toronto. I was in the washroom, and a woman said, “I love your necklace,” and I said, “Thank you,” and she was like, “I want that necklace.” I didn’t want to sell it, but she insisted. She wrote me a check in the washroom and I sold it to her. I actually regret it because it was one of those pieces I could never make again, but I find that people always want what I’m wearing. I’ve regretted selling a couple of pieces over the years because I could never make them exactly the same again. Sharon: That’s interesting. You’re your own best model in a sense. Colette: Well, I make them for me, to be honest. If I wouldn’t wear it, I couldn’t make it. I think that’s one of the reasons why I started creating my own leather accessories. I felt very restricted when I was working for—it was a company called Princeton Leathers. I always felt like I was in a box, and I just found it very difficult creating. There were two lines, one that was a luxurious line and one that was more simple. They would give me two findings and say, “O.K., now come up with something.” I was doing a dozen of these, and I found it very restrictive. If I won’t wear it, I can’t make it. Sharon: Where do you get your ideas, if it’s not from somebody who shows you something and says, “I want something done this way”? Where do you get ideas from? Colette: I don’t actively look for ideas. It’s just things you see and it’s collected in your subconscious. A lot of times, when I go and buy materials, I buy what I love, just pieces that I like. Sometimes they might be sitting on my desk for weeks and I have no idea what I’m going to do with them. Then one day, you might walk by and an idea just pops up in your head. I don’t actively look. That’s one of the things I don’t like about social media. You’re seeing all of these things. I try not to look at other people’s jewelry, but you see it and it does influence your work when you’re looking at so many different things. I try not to look at it too much because I always want to be true to myself when I create. I don’t like looking at other people’s work too much because I find that it does influence you, whether you know it or not. Sharon: Where do you look? Do you walk in the stores? Do you go downtown? Colette: You know what? I was actually speaking to a friend the other day—he has a manufacturing company in India—saying that we should go out and see, because I have no idea what’s in the stores. I don’t pay attention to what’s in or what’s not in. Even at George Brown, in speaking with the students I’m working with, they were telling me that minimalism is back in style. I have no clue. I really don’t. I don’t know what’s in or what’s not. I don’t pay attention to any of that. I never really liked rules. If you love something, then wear it. Who cares if it’s in or if somebody else likes it? It doesn’t matter. You’re the one that’s wearing it. It’s how you feel in it. What other people think has no bearing. I’ve never understood that. This is in style or that isn’t in—if you like something, if you love it, then wear it. Who cares? I’ve never paid attention to rules. Sharon: What was the context of them saying that minimalism is back in style? Colette: I can’t remember what we were speaking about, but they were saying that maximalism is out and minimalism is in. You know how fashion goes in waves. I think that’s like when I was doing the belts. I guess we were going into a period where belts weren’t in style anymore, so people weren’t really buying. Eventually I started doing more and more jewelry pieces. That’s the thing; if you like belts, then wear belts. I guess with the wave of fashion and the way the system works, then the buyers aren’t buying. But I never really paid attention to what’s in. Sharon: You closed your store. Now do you work out of your home or your studio? Colette: I have a home studio, yes. I work out of my home. Sharon: Do you have to go out and sell? Colette: No, but I’m planning on opening up a showroom where people can actually buy things. I’m thinking about coming full circle and doing a line of leather belts and accessories and a little bit of jewelry as well, but I’m thinking about creating some leather pieces. Sharon: Is that for stylists or is that for anybody who wants to come and look? Colette: For anybody who wants to come in. Sharon: Do they give you an idea of what they’re...
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