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Ep 34 | Exhausted isn't normal: Why you can't switch off, and the surprising fix
09/30/2025
Ep 34 | Exhausted isn't normal: Why you can't switch off, and the surprising fix
We’ve all been told that sleep is important. But if you’ve ever crawled into bed exhausted, only to lie awake with your mind racing, you’ll know it’s not that simple. In this episode, we’re talking about the science and soul of sleep, and why “tired but wired” has become the modern default. I’m joined by holistic sleep scientist Dr. Sabine Christelli, who blends neuroscience, breathwork, and ancient wisdom to help people finally rest deeply and wake up restored. We explore why so many smart, capable women struggle to switch off at night, the surprising habits that might be sabotaging your rest, and how small, practical changes can reset more than just your sleep cycle. This isn’t about chasing perfection or adding another task to your to-do list. It’s about reclaiming the kind of rest that makes everything in life feel lighter. What you’ll hear: ✅ Why exhaustion has become normalised, and why it shouldn’t be ✅ The hidden connection between stress, overthinking, and poor sleep ✅ Micro-habits that can transform your nights (without overhauling your life) ✅ How to reframe sleep as a powerful tool for clarity, resilience, and joy ✅ A refreshing take on the “9 Pillars of Sleep” and which one to start with today Whether you’re waking up foggy, struggling to switch off, or just curious about how to feel more human again, this episode will give you practical, science-backed ways to rest well and live well. Timestamps: 00:00 – Why “tired but wired” is the modern default 04:00 – Sabine’s journey from immunology labs to holistic sleep science 09:00 – The real cost of running on empty 14:30 – The 9 Pillars of Sleep explained (and which one matters most) 20:15 – Small, science-backed shifts you can start tonight 27:00 – The role of stress and overthinking in sleepless nights 34:20 – Why sleep is a bridge between science and spirit 40:00 – What changes when you reclaim deep, restorative rest Links and resources Book a Connection Call with Rebekah to find out how private coaching can help you Connect with Us Find Sabine Christelli online Website – Instagram – Facebook – For 20% off Sabine's course, 'The 9 Pillars To Your Best Sleep', visit Check out these FREE resources https://www.moonbeammonday.com.au/resources Join us every fortnight Tune in every fortnight as we delve into fascinating topics about the mind and the brain, because when you change your mind, you change your life. Subscribe and leave a review If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show so you never miss an episode and leave a review to help others find and enjoy our content. Transcript – Ep 34 – Why you can’t switch off… The sleep fix you’ve been missing. 00:00:02 Rebekah Hello and welcome back to The Brain Changers, the podcast where we explore what it really takes to change your life from the inside out by rewiring your thoughts, beliefs and behaviours. Now today I'm joined by someone who brings together science spirit and a whole lot of wisdom. 00:00:23 Rebekah When it comes to sleep and well being Doctor Sabine Cristelli began her career as a molecular immunologist in Germany, researching so-called junk DNA. I'm gonna probably ask you more about that. 00:00:37 Rebekah But her curiosity and compassion didn't stop there. Over the years, she's woven together science, sleep, medicine. 00:00:46 Rebekah Breath work, yoga, NLP, hypnosis and probably more into a truly holistic approach to health. 00:00:54 Rebekah She now calls herself a holistic sleep scientist, and for good reason. Her PhD research explores sleep at the deepest level, and she combines that with practical tools that help people move from burnout and brain fog into clarity, energy and ease. Now, Sabine. 00:01:14 Rebekah The leaves sleep isn't just about closing your eyes. 00:01:18 Rebekah It's a bridge between science and spirit, and when we cross it well, everything else in life becomes lighter, which just sounds wonderful. Savannah's worked with everyone from high performing athletes to busy professionals and her nine pillars of sleep are helping people all over the world reclaim their rest. 00:01:38 Rebekah Their resilience and their joy. Sabine, I'm so delighted to have you with us here today. Thank you so much for joining. 00:01:45 Sabine Me. Thank you for having me and allowing me to talk about my passion. I really appreciate it a lot. 00:01:51 Rebekah You're welcome. I'm excited about this as I was just saying to you before we. 00:01:56 Rebekah Started I wanted to kind of let people know why it was that I felt it was so important that we have you on the Brain Changes podcast. You've had so many incredible experiences. You've got so much behind you just having a read on your website. But one of the reasons I really wanted to invite you here today was because a lot of the. 00:02:16 Rebekah People that I work with, sleep is something that comes up right at the beginning of our our coaching. I coach, you know, mums, dads, professionals, people in corporate people with their own businesses, all sorts of people and. 00:02:34 Rebekah A lot of them are world class themselves to begin with, as over thinkers, they're struggling with anxiety. They really struggle to shut their minds down at night and get restful sleep. You know, even myself. I know when I've got lots going on and I'm perhaps feeling a little bit stressed. My sleep is disrupted. And so I thought well. 00:02:55 Rebekah Let's get you on here and have a chat about what is actually going on, and perhaps some of the tools that you can share with us today on how to improve our sleep and the difference it's going to make. 00:03:07 Sabine I would love to do all that and I. 00:03:09 Sabine Really appreciate, I just need to say. 00:03:11 Sabine From the start that. 00:03:13 Sabine Yes, I have researched a lot and studied a lot, but I never actually got to be a doctor so to speak, table, right. And what happened is that before I decided to continue with the research, I actually decided I want to work and give my services to human beings rather than be in the corridors at university. 00:03:19 Sabine That's just. 00:03:20 Rebekah Uh-huh. 00:03:33 Sabine Keeping on studying and spending all my life, it's very draining after a while and because I love helping people and I got out there, it my heart is in it. That's the whole reason I got my degrees. The whole reason I studied anything. 00:03:46 Sabine Why are humans suffering? How can we help? What can we, you know, teach each other so that we can thrive and really enjoy life? So I actually decided not to complete that and instead take the knowledge just before the ending of it and bring it out into the world rather than hide it at university. So just thought I would mention that small. 00:04:05 Yet. 00:04:05 Rebekah Thank you for the clarification. 00:04:07 Rebekah And I I love that it's. 00:04:09 Rebekah I remember actually going through to get my qualifications for coaching and what have you and there were some people in there that were. 00:04:17 Rebekah So. 00:04:19 Rebekah Fixated on the qualifications that they would get and what if somebody asks me what what my polls are and I sort of got to the point, you know. 00:04:29 Rebekah I'm proud of the qualifications that I have. 00:04:32 Rebekah But. 00:04:33 Rebekah It doesn't determine whether I can help someone or not. A lot of what I help people with in terms of coaching is the experience that I've had with, you know, in the 30 years or perhaps 25 years of work that came before that. So, yeah, I I admire you for making that decision and just putting yourself out there in the world. 00:04:53 Rebekah Help people. It's been perhaps just catch us up on how you ended up where you are now and being this holistic sleep. 00:05:01 OK. 00:05:02 Sabine Yes. OK. So it's been a long journey. I am. I've been around. 00:05:07 Sabine For a while. 00:05:08 Sabine In a sense, like I said just now, what happened is I did my my, my high school and it was what am I gonna do with my life now? What am I going to study? And really my passion was breast cancer and cancer overall. I could just see so many people had it. 00:05:23 Sabine So in a nutshell, I went and did a science degree and I wanted to understand the immunology, the biochemistry, how the organs function, and once I finished that and did my honour. 00:05:33 Sabine Degree I realised that I barely scraped the surface and there's all the other aspects like nutrition and mindset and lifestyle and relationships and of course so much more that I now can articulate. So I had to continue and study all those things in the form of you know, holistic therapy. 00:05:53 Sabine Neurolinguistic programming your passion. We're all programmed. And how we use it and how we get into it, how we self hypnotise and at one point I was giving talks on how to breathe, cause I'm a yoga teacher. Can help cooperations with productivity, how it can help you to to be more effective and function. 00:06:12 Sabine And the place where I gave that seminar on happened to be a university where they were also studying sleep. Being curious as I am, I said, wow, have you studied how breathing affects, you know, sleep? And I said, yeah, sort of. But not really. But why don't we have a chat? So Long story short. 00:06:32 Sabine I had a chat and talked to professor and it took a year to get that all sorted. Everything so slow. Sometimes when I started. Yeah that PhD and when delve super Deep did the research, went into all aspects because as a PhD student you actually have to understand the entire field. 00:06:52 Sabine And then justified that small project which was breathing and sleep, which was my my theme. So I came to be that. And of course I have been a mum and I am a mum. I know what sleep deprivation is like. I have got a father who had sleep deprivation and has Alzheimer's and is in a nursing home. I have seen how people change when they don't get enough sleep. 00:07:15 Sabine And how they ignore it thinking? 00:07:17 Sabine You know a a big, stimulating drink in the morning or a wine at night will help you to unwind and how society. Since COVID really has really speed up their lack of ability to sleep through anxiety and and and scrolling and and all those other habits. So I feel I'm in the right position to actually combine. 00:07:37 Sabine Holy. 00:07:38 Sabine Basically, everything that contributes to healthy sleep, which includes what you do, which is the NLP, the hypnosis and of the functions in the brain and nervous system. So that's why I am here. 00:07:50 Rebekah Ohh. Wonderful. Yeah, what a journey you've had and that that's exactly. And I love what you're just saying there. And I guess this goes to. 00:07:58 Rebekah You know, you talk about being a holistic sleep scientist because. 00:08:02 Rebekah It's. 00:08:03 Rebekah Being well, living well is not just about one thing. Yes, there's certain pillars. We all know that good nutrition is important. We know that moving our body is important. We know that sleep is important. We know that good mindset is important. But. 00:08:19 Rebekah You can't sort of look at three of them and go, oh, well, I'm ticking 3 out of four, so I'm OK. I mean, you might be doing. 00:08:25 Rebekah OK. 00:08:26 Rebekah But what? What is OK and what is exceptional that that waking up exhausted in the morning I think is very, very common for a lot of people. 00:08:34 Rebekah I I am very familiar with that, not so much now in my what I probably call my previous life and honestly still guilty of the stimulating dream. When you said that my ears pricked up because I feel like I'm one of those people that I get pretty good sleep my knee nutrition. 00:08:54 Rebekah It is good. 00:08:55 Rebekah I I move my body, but I need that stimulating drink in the morning. What's going on? When we feel that we need that? 00:09:02 Rebekah The thing. 00:09:03 Sabine What's going on depends on each person, but in general it means that maybe the sleep was not as deep as you thought it was, so a lot of people think that, well, I I went to sleep at 11 and I woke up at 7:00. And yeah, I'm feeling reasonably good. And then there's this lethargy, maybe after breakfast. 00:09:22 Sabine Or when you want to have more energy. So a couple of things, it could be or maybe more than that, but one is your actual sleep quality. The quantity might have been enough, but the depth of. 00:09:32 Sabine Your sleep was not as deep as it could be because you went to bed with overstimulation through perhaps that coffee or the green tea in my case, or perhaps looking at an email a little bit later than maybe was a good idea. Or your bank account, or. Or having a chat with someone who's a little bit stressful and it kind of retriggers. 00:09:53 Sabine The nervous system so that when it's excited and there's more cortisol release biologically, we don't go so deep after that. It's just how it is. So that's mainly what it is. The other thing can be of course that. 00:10:07 Sabine You are not getting the right nutrients or you have a different peak of activity. Maybe you're more productive in the afternoon. Some people are more productive in the morning. That's the different chronotype. So it could be that as well. Maybe you need morning sunlight. Some people get up and don't get that, and that really wakes you up and gets you into the day. 00:10:28 Sabine Activates your circadian so, and it could also be for some people. They do eat a really sweet and and not that you would, but you know wheat, pigs with sugar on top would really cause a slump and it's not energising. 00:10:41 Sabine So things like that can also contribute. There's so many little things, but does any of that kind of ring any bells or so? 00:10:51 Rebekah Yeah. Yeah. Well, it it's certainly for me, there's there's lots of different things that go. OK, you know, you could try that or could try changing that, you know, the morning sunshine, that type of thing. 00:11:02 Rebekah So I guess what I'm hearing here is there is no one size fits all. 00:11:05 Rebekah When it comes. 00:11:05 Rebekah To sleep. Anything, really. But even with sleep, there are certainly things that we can all try, but to get things. 00:11:17 Rebekah Just right for us, we need to tweak little things and I think that's what we talk about here at the brain changes. Not everybody is looking for a massive life transformation. You know, a lot of things are good in our life, but we're looking for those little tweaks, those little one percenters that are going to make a big difference. 00:11:37 At. 00:11:38 Rebekah You talked about that spike in. 00:11:41 Rebekah Cortisol in the evening if we've had a perhaps a conversation with a friend who's a bit stressed or we've read that email or looked at our bank account. All of those things. And I know you're a breath work facilitator and this is something I talk a lot with my talk about a lot with my clients. How can breathing even a simple breathwork exercise before bed? 00:12:03 It. 00:12:03 Sabine Really help us. Huge, huge, huge. That's one of the best tools you have for free available. So having taught Kundalini for 5th Kundalini yoga for nearly 15 years, the key is the breath. The key is your ability to navigate your nervous system and calm it down but also activate it when you want to. 00:12:23 Sabine So right now, even while you're listening to this podcast. 00:12:27 Sabine First of all, you will calm your nervous system if you breathe lower into the body, it's very stress stress response, like when you're in the upper body. So maybe placing your hands on your belly and feeling that as you inhale through the nose that your belly expands is a big reset. So inhale. Let your belly expand through the nose. Exhale through the nose. 00:12:47 Sabine Draw the belly back towards the spine and take as long as you can. If you can take another few seconds and hold the breath out and then inhale for count of five. 00:12:57 Sabine 12345 keep it in the belly. Hold it shortly, except for count of seven. One slow 234567. Inhale 123. 00:13:17 Sabine 4 Hold it briefly. Stay soft in your body and excel 123-4567 so the longer exhale will activate the relaxation response, healing and repair. 00:13:34 Sabine And if you are having a longer inhale than the exhale, that kind of stress breathing, you will activate the other side which is preparing you to deal with problems like running away from a bull or a tiger or whatever the metaphor could be, which could be the email or the conversation, or maybe watching the news. 00:13:54 Sabine Or even being exposed to too much bright light so that breath work right now, exhaling longer than the inhale. 00:14:02 Sabine And allowing yourself to feel the belly is very grounding for the nervous system, and it will have an instant effect. It can be a reset at lunchtime in the morning and before bed or in the shower. Whatever you do, no excuses. We can do this. 00:14:17 Rebekah Exactly. No excuses. And you know, I just did those few breaths while you were counting. And thank you. 00:14:22 Rebekah Notice even for those actually watching this as a video as opposed to what listening to the podcast, I could see your body moving just with the breath there. And I I was following it along myself and even just with those few, I have felt my. 00:14:36 Rebekah Self calm. 00:14:38 Sabine Straight off. 00:14:38 Because I. 00:14:39 Rebekah I get excited when I interview people with, you know, for the podcast, but even that I just noticed that I am calmer than when we first dialled in. So like you say, there's no excuses that took 30 seconds. Maybe if that, you know, wasn't even in a quiet space. 00:14:58 Rebekah You don't have to be alone. You don't have to be in a. 00:15:02 Rebekah You know, a yogic pose or anything like that. Like you say, you could even do it in the shower. You can calm your breathing down while you're driving in the car. If you're finding yourself getting really worked up with. 00:15:13 Sabine Traffic. You're in the dishes. Anything you do anything and you will actually have a higher intelligence. And I like to highlight that to people that are very intelligent. 00:15:23 Sabine And intellectual as you actually tap into a higher intelligence, that's much more create. 00:15:28 Sabine Give an open minded to spontaneous innovations and solutions that you can't see when you are breathing shallow literally because you are when you're breathing shallow looking for problems. The body is designed in the fight or flight to do a scan for issues and wildlife is difficult and you're gonna get trapped in that. 00:15:48 Sabine Versus if you're an entrepreneur or a mother that has to deal with lots of things, or a father anything like that in life. If you breathe slow. 00:15:57 Sabine Your ego self might say ohh I'm gonna slow down and go to sleep if you could. But you're not going to. You're actually gonna feel grounded, safe. And the higher intelligence inside you will be activated. So keep that in mind. Great stuff. 00:16:12 Rebekah So many things to learn about this. I'm I'm absolutely fascinated by. 00:16:17 Rebekah What the breath can do for us and like you said at the very beginning, it is. 00:16:20 Rebekah Free. We can do this anywhere, anytime. Of course. We're focusing on sleep today and this is this is one of those surefire things and I. 00:16:31 Rebekah Know this from from. 00:16:32 Rebekah Personal experience as well. If you are finding it difficult to go to sleep to have that restful sleep to even feel good when you wake up the next morning. 00:16:43 Rebekah And this is one of the first things that you can do that's easy to do. It's free. It doesn't take a lot of time. It's been I I know that in a a previous podcast you've done, you shared that around 45%. I think of it is 45% of people...
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