CEO Campfire Chat

Recorded before a live audience of leading executives, CEO Campfire Chat teaches you how to accelerate your revenue growth by learning from others who have been there. CEOs of mid-size companies share the inside story behind strategies and actions that drove substantial growth. If you’re an executive of a middle-market, PE-backed company and need proven processes and strategies to reliably grow your revenue now, within your limited time and resources, this is the show for you.

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How to Unlock Growth Through Listening 03/23/2021

How to Unlock Growth Through Listening is passionate about education. She credits her interest in the field to her own experience as a student in Philadelphia at one of the oldest public high schools in the country. After earning a JD from NYU, she knew immediately she wanted to use it to make the educational experience more equitable for all students. Zvia began doing pro bono work with charter schools, and it was there that she first noticed parallels between the world of charter schools and startups. Establishing a charter school is about identifying the need and market. From there, you need to sell your stakeholders—both government agencies and parents in the area—on the benefits of your school. Why your charter school over all other institutions? She now takes what she saw working with charter schools and applies those learnings as the CEO of , a test-prep and advisory company for school systems and individual families. This dual business model is unique, and it allows A-List Education to reach even more students. Through its private tutoring services, it works with children whose families have the means to hire a tutor. Through its partnerships with school systems, students access its tutoring and advisory services at no charge to them. Because A-List Education has a number of stakeholders and customer segments, listening to all of these parties is incredibly important. Zvia and her team have spent time defining the different personas they serve. On the institutional side, they serve both individual schools and entire districts. Some of these clients need only access to test prep materials, while others turn to A-List Education for comprehensive support, including access to teachers and help administering tests. Listening to each type of customer allows the A-List Education team to understand their needs and develop products and offerings to meet them. On the private-pay tutoring side, Zvia is very focused on listening to parents and tapping into their networks to build referrals. The business is referral-heavy; A-List often stays in touch with involved parents to expand its reach to other parents in their networks. A strong referral business is only possible when you know your customer intimately and continue to evolve to serve their changing needs. What’s next for Zvia and the A-List team? In the coming years, the focus will be on expansion into adjacent markets. Zvia wants to offer test prep services and tutoring support for other stages of the educational journey. She wants to remain in touch with happy high school student customers as they move onto college and more advanced degrees and continue to offer them tutoring services. Zvia will continue to rely on listening as she looks for new ways to grow the business. By listening to the needs of her customers and understanding how they grow and evolve, A-List Education can continue to help students achieve success at each stage of their educational journey. Episode Transcript Rob Ristagno: Today we hear from a first-time CEO of a college test prep and advising business. And although it's her first time leading an organization, she's a veteran in the education space. Hear how she's taken her deep industry knowledge and combined that with her skill for listening to customer needs in order to build a successful organization that's primed to expand into new markets. Announcer: This is the CEO Campfire Chat with your host, Rob Ristagno. Taped in front of a live studio audience, join us to hear successful growth stories from middle-market companies just like yours. Sponsored by the Sterling Woods Group. Rob Ristagno: Welcome to the CEO Campfire Chat recorded live in front of a studio audience of senior executives. I'm your host, Rob Ristagno and have the privilege of introducing you to Zvia Schoenberg, the CEO of A-List Education, which is an organization dedicated to improving student performance and supporting schools when it comes to things like exam prep and college admissions. Zvia is a true leader in education; she has served on the management team for several different charter schools, the New York City Department of Education, and various ed-tech companies such as Kinvolved. Welcome, Zvia. Zvia Schoenberg: Thank you so much, Rob, for having me. Rob Ristagno: All right. So a long track record here in the education space must be some passion behind it. Tell us a little bit about how you first got interested in the world of education. Zvia Schoenberg: Sure. Happy to start at the beginning. And I think it all started in my high school. I attended a school in Philadelphia called Central High School, one of the oldest public high schools in the country. And I attended in the 1980s at peak integration, which means like around the country that was the peak time when our schools were integrated. And I had a really positive experience, but years later, after I completed law school, I was looking around and I realized things devolved a little, they weren't as integrated as they were in my little enclave, right? Zvia Schoenberg: And I saw what New York City looked like, where I was living at the time, and I realized that my experience wasn't everybody's experience and I wanted to do something meaningful with my law degree. I never viewed myself as just going to law school to be a lawyer. I wanted to go to law school then change the world, right? And fortunately, my law firm had a pro bono program, and we ended up working with the first charter school to open in New York State. Rob Ristagno: What was that like? Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah, that was great. We represented them pro bono and it was literally the first, so we were charting a new course and it was super exciting and I felt like I could really dig my teeth into this. Rob Ristagno: All right. So you got started on the legal path in the education world, but then you've transitioned over to the business part. So tell us a little bit about how that evolved. Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. Like I said, I never really wanted to just be a lawyer I wanted to do something. Like, a legal degree was a tool to do something. But then I had to figure out what I was doing with that. So I was always motivated by this education issue and it was just a path to get stuff done. So I did spend the first ten years being a lawyer. And a lot of that was with the department of ed and with schools and the district in the City of New York, but I realized that working with a charter school is a lot like working with a startup. We started schools and ed-tech was big back then, it was new, newer, at least. And I transitioned and I moved to the business side and I built up a story around the parallels which I really believe were true and made the switch. Rob Ristagno: Nice. Tell us some of those parallels between charter schools and entrepreneurship in the business world. Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah, sure. First of all, identifying the need, identifying your market. Rob Ristagno: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. Zvia Schoenberg: That was important for both, right? There's a lot of charter schools already, fewer back then, but why do we need another one? Why is this one going to be different? Knowing your customers, persuading them that your product or your school is going to be a good choice for their children or is even going to be something that they're going to want to consider and then considering the needs of the local community and the government who's going to fund you, AKA the payer. So who's the payer for the product, right? It's either a customer or a state or a government entity. So all of those were pretty consistent, I thought, and listening and understanding your customer to me is the biggest driver. Rob Ristagno: Excellent. We'll come back to all those points when we talk about A-List Education, but now it's clear to me what you meant by the similar experience there. And I see a lot of parallels. So actually speaking of A-List Education, why don't you tell us a little bit about the company itself, what the mission is and what your business model looks like? Zvia Schoenberg: So we are all about putting young people in the best position to fill their long-term education and career goals, whatever those goals might be, right? So how we do this is help them win on game day. And typically for us, that's standardized tests--SAT, ACT--it could be a state test, like the regions. We do, do some academic tutoring, but mostly it's these standardized tests which are so meaningful. Like, they can be more meaningful than four years of high school. It's really crazy, but that's our opportunity, is you can help them succeed on that one day in that point in time. Rob Ristagno: Got you. Got you. And diverting a little away from the company itself, we see a lot during COVID some of these standardized tests have been canceled or shortened or abbreviated, what's your assessment to the extent that you have a crystal ball, is this a big change, or is this a temporary change, or will there be a new model that emerges? What are some of your thoughts there? Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah, I liked the word assessment, was that a pun intended? Rob Ristagno: That's as good as your chart new course with the charter school upon I caught earlier but... Zvia Schoenberg: I do think these changes are here to stay, I do. I think there are a lot of changes in education that are here to stay. That said, I do think there's always going to be gates and gatekeepers and there's always going to be a need for a filter. There's a limited number of opportunities, whether you're looking at college seats, high school seats, even playing on a team, a team sport, not everyone gets to participate, right? And so how are those choices made? They could be made by a computer, by an algorithm, they could be made by standardized tests, there's a lot of pathways. So, yes, I do think there's going to be change, but I do think that there's going to be a system always in place and that we need to remain the experts so that we can be relied on for how do we do our best in this system, whatever the system is? Rob Ristagno: Another example, just listen to your customer, understanding your community and evolving alongside of it. Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. Exactly. Rob Ristagno: So back to A-List Education, tell us a little bit, what's the business model? How do you make money? How does it work? Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. So we have two sides to our business which not every test prep company has. We serve schools and school systems in districts, but we also provide services direct to consumers, which are our families that we work with, and we charge a fee for service or subscriptions depending on the product and then who we're serving. And we don't monetize through the back door. It's literally like, this is what we're providing, you pay a fee for the service, but what's cool about it is our school business often relies on grants or funding streams that are federal or state or local, but the kids don't pay. Rob Ristagno: Yeah. Okay. Zvia Schoenberg: Most of the students who pass through our classroom doors so to speak, don't pay for our services. So for that reason we always say that we're mission-driven organization, that we have the same amazing high quality educators and products and they're available to all, right? Rob Ristagno: Yes. So real dual mission company, I guess, you have shareholders and have to hit some financial targets, but it's nice to have this altruistic arm and doing something that's great for society. Zvia Schoenberg: Exactly. Rob Ristagno: Now, tell us a little bit... We've heard several of our guests that have sat around the campfire with us in the past, that when you first take the reins of a new company as CEO, you have a fresh perspective, a new set of eyes and you can see a clearer path to growth than maybe your predecessor--just human nature. You kind of do something for too long and maybe you don't have those fresh set of eyes. So tell us, you've only been there about a year, year and a half? Tell us what your initial impressions were and your vision for growth. Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. I am a first-time CEO, so that probably adds another layer to this as well. But I took over a company that for most of the life of the company had been run by the founder with a brief transition that brought a couple of different leaders. And our founder is still very involved today. And what we ended up building together is something that I think is really valuable. He is essentially playing a chairman role and his experience that he brings, like, I can text him any day anytime. Rob Ristagno: Well, nice. Zvia Schoenberg: And he doesn't run the business day-to-day, he doesn't make these decisions, but he helps inform me. And his experience and my fresh perspective together, I think, is what has enabled us to grow. Rob Ristagno: Nice. Nice. It's always good to get the wisdom and what do you call it? Institutional knowledge from people who've been there and done that, but marry that with some new ideas. So what are some of the new ideas that you've had and have tried? Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. So one of the first things I did was look around for silos and break them down. And there were a bunch of different silos in the company and we really opened things up. And we did that, I think, through partly when we all went remote during COVID. I think that forced everything to be transparent, online, use our systems properly, and now everybody can see everything. So when you're all on Slack and chatting, we all say things to the same CRM, everybody sees everything. Posting shout outs and really recognizing performance has really helped bring us together, but it's also brought out the best in people like folks now feel like it matters, what they do matters. They're going to be recognized and their ideas are going to be listened to. And I think that's been really helpful for all of us, for the whole team. Rob Ristagno: Yeah. So it sounds like using technology to create an extra layer of transparency so everyone can just see what's going on. And so in some weird way the remote world has helped you innovate in this way and figure out this new way to keep everyone engaged. Zvia Schoenberg: Definitely. Rob Ristagno: Great. Tell us now a little bit one thing that you've mentioned to me offline is that, the company is simultaneously a tech company and a services business. And there's a school of thought, again, no pun intended, that you should pick a lane and focus on it. You're either a tech company or a services company. Could you walk us through the story of how you evaluated that problem, where you landed, what helps you make that decision and where you're going as a result? Zvia Schoenberg: Sure. I do struggle with this because we want to be both, but I do think that it's true that we have to pick, and we've always been a services company. We have an amazing group of educators who care deeply about student success and that's how we grow, and that's how we get the referrals that we get. Every business is a referral business and ours is no exception. That said, we do need technology to get that job done. So we made an acquisition over the summer. We bought an adaptive learning platform and that has really been transformational as has the use of an off-the-shelf learning management system that we also use. We need technology to get it done, full stop. We wouldn't say we're the best at technology so for that reason, I err on the side of being a services business, because that's not what we're best at, what we're best at is delivering the education services. Rob Ristagno: That's a good point. You're tech-enabled services, but you've recognized where your sweet spot is and where your real advantage is and it's on the providing an amazing experience/service side. But you recognize that there's a need for technology to be able to deliver? Zvia Schoenberg: Yes. Exactly. Rob Ristagno: Great. Tell us a little bit back to one of the parallels you made between charter schools and businesses really understanding your market and the needs. Tell us a little bit about the ideal customer for A-List Education. Zvia Schoenberg: Sure. We have a number of different personas that we think about when we think of who our customers are. So we have the institutional side which are schools and districts and other education institutions, and then we have the families that we serve. So we're going to have two very different profiles. For the schools that we work with, they are from around the country--we've worked in 36 States from rural to urban--and really the only thing that unifies all of them is they have focus on getting kids to college. And so I hate to say this because it's not the right answer to say ever, but it's everyone when it comes to schools because even schools that have resources to teach these types of classes, college access classes, SAT prep, ACT prep, they need additional resources, they need materials, right? And they need a video library or they need pieces of it. Zvia Schoenberg: And for schools that don't have the resources we come in and do it all. We send the teacher, we run the testing days, we do everything. So there's really a broad spectrum. And this is why it comes back to listening, in my mind. What do you need? How can they help you? We're looking to be a partner and we even call schools partners. So for schools we have a really broad band of who we serve, and for our families it's a little narrower. It definitely is folks who want to pay for test prep, and that's a lot smaller of a band. Rob Ristagno: Got you. And is there other even sub-personas within the consumer side, on the private-pay side, just any sub-personas that you've noticed, certain trends around the people that make for the best students/client/customers? Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. I mean, what's interesting is the family involvement, because typically our clients are referrals. Most of our business has always been referral, pretty much from the first few years. So either referred from a school or from a friend or a neighbor. So there's really a lot of family engagement in the student success. And that's one thing that we find pretty consistently in our successful relationships. Rob Ristagno: Got you. Got you. So word of mouth here, how do you harness word of mouth? I mean, how do you formalize that? How do you build upon it? Other things you've tried from a marketing standpoint? Zvia Schoenberg: Yeah. Lots of ways. We have relationships with certain high schools, certain guidance counselors love to refer that steady pair of hands, to the students, too, are looking for support. We also have referral bonuses that we pay our educators, right? So that's always an incentive. And then we have certain parents, usually it's the moms, who are very networked and we end up using them and collaborating with them as sort of a hub. There's always that mom in the neighborhood you turn to for stuff. So we look for those moms, we seek them out, we make sure they have an amazing experience, that their kid improves in whatever test or whatever subject they were looking to excel in, and we stay in touch with them and we ask how we could be of service and usually those folks end up being really great resources for us. Rob Ristagno: Excellent. I'm going to shift gears in a minute, but let me pause here to see if our audience has any questions about your business model, go-to-market strategy, leadership approach. Steve: Zvia, this is Steve. Wondering about two things pre/post your arrival. One is, was the business always an online business or was it primarily in-person or a mix? And then the other question is, I know you have a college advisory part to your business, was that something you added on and how does that do relative to the SAT, ACT prep work that you do? Zvia... /episode/index/show/ceocampfirechat/id/18393416

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CEO Campfire Chat

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