Choose the Hard Way

Stories about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. Guests from pro cycling, sports, politics, business, tech, journalism, the military and more. Resilience, grit, mental health, high performance, mindfulness. Host Andrew Vontz is an entrepreneur & co-founder of TheBetterLab.io, the company that helps you build mindful, science-backed practices to sleep better. Previously, he was a Strava executive; a communications leader at the human performance company, TRX; and a journalist with hundreds of bylines in dozens of top outlets including The LA Times, Outside Magazine, Rolling Stone and more.

Ep. 122 - Cameron Jones - Unbound Gravel 2025 Champion 07/22/2025

Ep. 122 - Cameron Jones - Unbound Gravel 2025 Champion Cameron Jones won the 2025 edition of the 205-mile Unbound Gravel, the most competitive edition ever of the most prestigious gravel race on the planet. Three months earlier, he showed up in America, walked into a used car dealership in the Bay Area, walked off the lot with a used Honda Odyssey and a dream to make this his best season ever. But these aren’t the most interesting parts of his story. Cameron has done stints in the forestry industry and in his teens back in New Zealand was an elite mutli-sport athlete who knocked the arm warmers off the best athletes in New Zealand in the Coast to Coast, a race that combines running, cycling and kayaking to travel across New Zealand. Cameron is from a tight family and I wanted to know more about who he is and how he came from seemingly out of nowhere to pull off a win people will be talking about for years to come. I enjoyed getting to know him and I’d love to hear your thoughts about what he shares, DM me @hardwaypod on Instagram and let me know what you think. The number one way to support Choose the Hard Way is to become a paid subscriber to my substack, . That’s where I share my reflections on these interviews and write about engaged mindfulness, bikes and life. At One Real Voice, I coach leaders 1:1 to help them thrive as storytellers and stand out in the long-form podcast conversations where real influence is built. If you have a podcast or are starting one, I also provide strategic guidance to set yourself up to win from the beginning and keep on winning with every episode. When you’re ready to be great, DM me @hardwaypod or email . Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, please subscribe and do humanity a favor when you hit 5 stars. Crypto curious? With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Create your free wallet and get up to 10% in annual rewards by putting your crypto to work. Go to to get started today, no experience required. Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Follow my subtack and @hardwaypod on instagram to meet up with me at gravel events like Overland and to see what adventures I tackle on my Lauf bikes in 2025. Check them out at . This podcast is also brought to you by my best-in-class partners at Palm Tree Pod Co. They’re a full-service podcast studio with end-to-end services to help any brand, business or individual take a strategic approach and standout. Find them at /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/37487360

One Hour to Train - What do you do? w/ Spencer Martin of Beyond the Peloton / WEDU x Andrew Vontz of Choose the Hard Way 07/16/2025

One Hour to Train - What do you do? w/ Spencer Martin of Beyond the Peloton / WEDU x Andrew Vontz of Choose the Hard Way You've got an hour or less to train, what do you do? Spencer Martin of the Beyond the Peloton newsletter & podcast + WEDU's Outcomes / The Move takes a break from the Tour de France to join Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz to talk about what they do when life and work are at max stress and you have little time to workout. Is Zone 2 really the right move if you have a few hours a week to train and you're a cyclist, runner or triathlete with a long training history and navigating highly stressful moments in work, family and life? Should you follow a rigid training program or freestyle? Vo2 max intervals every time the road goes uphill, Zwift racing, Zwift pace partners, bodyweight workouts, push-ups & pull-ups before the kids wake up at 5 a.m. are some of the methods Andrew and Spencer use to get fit when they can in the time they have. As we age, family, parenting, work, health, wellness and just staying alive start to become higher priorities. But we all still want to go fast when it's time to run, ride or get out there and tackle that gravel monument. Andrew Huberman and Peter Attia have many great ideas about how to make that happen, this conversation focuses more on the practical versus the perfect. What gets done is what works, and many people struggle to fit it all into the day. Whether you're racing Unbound, BWR, Mid South, Overland, Gravel Worlds or just a busy parent who enjoys running, riding, lifting, hybrid training, Hyrox or being able to get up off the floor after a Netflix binge without injuring yourself, your fascia and breathwork will thank you for listening to this stunning episode. Leave a comment or DM @hardwaypod and let us know what you think of this new experimental episode format. The number one way to support Choose the Hard Way is to become a paid subscriber to https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/. That’s where I share my reflections on these interviews and write about engaged mindfulness, bikes and life. At https://www.onerealvoice.com/, Andrew Vontz coaches leaders 1:1 to help them thrive as storytellers and stand out in the long-form podcast conversations where real influence is built. If you have a podcast or are starting one, I also provide strategic guidance to set yourself up to win from the beginning and keep on winning with every episode. When you’re ready to be great, DM me or send an email to Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, please subscribe and do humanity a favor when you hit 5 stars. Crypto curious? With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, https://www.blockchain.com/ is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Create your free wallet and get up to 10% in annual rewards by putting your crypto to work. Go to Blockchain.com to get started today, no experience required. Choose the Hard Way Newsletter: https://alwaysthehardway.substack.com/ One Real Voice podcast coaching & strategy: https://www.onerealvoice.com/ Beyond the Peloton Newsletter: https://beyondthepeloton.substack.com/ /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/37433250

Tom Perriello: Congressman, Special Envoy - United States of Sweat 06/26/2025

Tom Perriello: Congressman, Special Envoy - United States of Sweat Welcome back to United States of Sweat presented by Choose the Hard Way where politicians and policymakers join us to share stories about fitness, health and the sports they love playing. In 2008 Tom Perriello won the election to represent Virginia’s 5th Congressional district by fewer than 1,000 votes. He later ran for governor of Virginia and he also served as Special Envoy for Sudan and Special Envoy for the Democratic Republic of the Congo & Great Lakes among many other acts of service. Marathons, 10-day silent retreats, Spartan Races & what happens when you’re forced to operate on four hours of sleep a night for a year while making 62 country visits to end a humanitarian crisis--this episode goes deep. Tom was also the executive director of Open Society Foundations where he met my co-host Jonathan Kaplan. Jonathan runs Essington Road Strategies, helping organizations navigate Washington, shape policy and manage reputational risk. He also writes Riding With, a newsletter and podcast exploring the intersection of pro cycling, media, business and politics. Find that at . The number one way to support Choose the Hard Way is to become a paid subscriber to my substack, . That’s where I share my reflections on these interviews and write about engaged mindfulness, bikes and life. For senior execs, pro athletes, and political leaders, podcasts aren’t optional anymore. They’re mission-critical. At One Real Voice, I coach leaders 1:1 to help them thrive as storytellers and stand out in the long-form podcast conversations where real influence is built. When you’re ready to be great, DM me @hardwaypod or email . Wherever you’re listening to this podcast, please subscribe and do humanity a favor when you hit 5 stars. Now, let’s get started with United States of Sweat. Remember, this is the beginning of this project. DM me @hardwaypod on instagram and let me know what you think. /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/37157090

United States of Sweat with Ambassador Jeff Flake - Desert Island Survival, Long-Distance Swimming & More 05/29/2025

United States of Sweat with Ambassador Jeff Flake - Desert Island Survival, Long-Distance Swimming & More During a divided time in America, our love of sports and fitness cross party lines and can keep us healthy as individuals and bring us together as a nation. The United States of Sweat is a new series from Choose the Hard Way that features the world’s leading political leaders and policy makers sharing stories about what they do to stay healthy, fit and physically active. When we decided to launch the United States of Sweat, we knew the first guest we wanted to land was an endurance athlete of a different kind, Ambassador Jeff Flake. Ambassador Flake recently served as U.S. Ambassador to Türkiye and previously represented Arizona in both the U.S. Senate and House. He’s taught at Harvard, Stanford, and Yale, and now leads the Institute of Politics at Arizona State. In 2025, he was knighted by Sweden for his role in securing their NATO accession. He’s also the author of the New York Times bestseller Conscience of a Conservative: A Rejection of Destructive Politics and a Return to Principle. In his spare time, Ambassador Flake likes to maroon himself on deserted islands and survive with little more than a spear and a machete. Ambassador Flake and his wife, Cheryl, are the parents of five grown children. We first crossed paths in 2018 when then Senators Flake and Chris Coons sent a letter to Strava about our global heat map and data privacy when I was running global communications. That led to a trip to the hill and one of the most thrilling and fulfilling experiences of my professional career that I’ll save for another podcast. My co-host on the United States of Sweat is Jonathan Kaplan. You may know Jonathan as the author of the popular Riding With newsletter and for his legendary performance at the January 2025 Beyond the Peloton x Choose the Hard Way training camp. But wait, there’s more. Jonathan Kaplan is a former political journalist, congressional aide, State Department official, and most recently, comms strategist for the world’s largest human rights funder. He now runs Essington Road Strategies, helping organizations navigate Washington, shape policy, and manage reputational risk. He also writes Riding With, a newsletter and podcast exploring the intersection of pro cycling, media, business, and politics. Find that at . For senior execs, pro athletes, and political leaders, podcasts aren’t optional anymore—they’re mission-critical. At One Real Voice, I coach leaders 1:1 to help them show up as humans and stand out in the long-form podcast conversations where real influence is built. If you’re ready to be great, DM me @hardwaypod or email [email protected]. Now, let’s get started with the United States of Sweat. DM me @hardwaypod on instagram and let me know what you think. This episode is brought to you by Blockchain.com. Over $1 trillion in crypto transactions have been trusted to . They’re your trusted platform for buying, selling and holding crypto, no matter your experience level. When you crypto, crypto with . This episode is also brought to you by Lauf. We sought them out as a partner because they take an unconstrained and innovative approach to building that yields best-in-class results. Lauf bikes are elegant, fast and radically fun. When you ride, ride Lauf . Palm Tree Pod Co. is our trusted strategic production partner. Why? Because we work with the best. Find Anthony and his crackerjack team at . /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/36764960

From Start up to End up - From The Better Lab to One Real Voice & Beyond - Andrew Vontz x Shannon Jones 05/20/2025

From Start up to End up - From The Better Lab to One Real Voice & Beyond - Andrew Vontz x Shannon Jones Subscribe to the Choose the Hard Way substack at for a look behind the scenes of this episode and human-generated insights about bikes, zen and life. Walking away from an executive role at a high-growth unicorn to go all-in & start up your own company sounds cool. What happens when a highly promising start up with an awesome product becomes an end up and your funding and life savings are gone? This episode is an inside look at Choose the Hard Way creator Andrew Vontz’s journey as co-founder of the venture-backed sleep tech startup The Better Lab, how that experience spawned his new company One Real Voice & a glimpse of what’s on the horizon with his stealth consumer health startup. Vontz’s longtime friend & mentor Shannon Jones is the co-pilot for this unvarnished conversation about the realities of building, leading and moving forward in business in life. Jones is an investor, educator, and advisor with roots in private equity and entrepreneurship. He founded Halstatt Legacy Partners to acquire and grow family-owned businesses and has led ventures in fitness, media, and health. He coaches new CEOs through high-stakes transitions, often addressing identity and behavior. An adjunct professor at CU Boulder, he teaches acquisition and leadership, drawing on real-world experience--from co-founding a boxing reality TV startup to recruiting CEOs for investor-backed firms. Find Shannon on LinkedIn and subscribe to his Substack: . Being able to perform in high-stakes, long-form podcast conversations is now a mission-critical skill for senior leaders. Drawing on his 25 years of experience as a journalist, founder, executive & host of hundreds of podcast episodes, Andrew Vontz works 1:1 with senior executives, political leaders and pro athletes who are eager to build & practice the new skills it takes to thrive in the podcast landscape. Are you ready to be great? DM Andrew @hardwaypod or email . This episode is brought to you by Blockchain.com. Over $1 trillion in crypto transactions have been trusted to . They’re your trusted platform for buying, selling and holding crypto, no matter your experience level. When you crypto, crypto with . This episode is also brought to you by Lauf. We sought them out as a partner because they take an unconstrained and innovative approach to building that yields best-in-class results. Lauf bikes are elegant, fast and radically fun. When you ride, ride Lauf . Palm Tree Pod Co. is our trusted strategic production partner. Why? Because we work with the best. Find Anthony and his crackerjack team at . /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/36633880

Pro Cyclist Chase Wark pt. 1 - Mega Mid South FKT 03/28/2025

Pro Cyclist Chase Wark pt. 1 - Mega Mid South FKT Pro gravel cyclist Chase Wark joins me today to talk about setting the fastest known time on the 300-mile Mega Mid South gravel loop after wildfires devastated the Stillwater, Oklahoma area and cancelled the Mid South gravel race. Find Chase @chasethebiker on Instagram. I wrote a story with my thoughts and reflections on the interview you’ll hear today on my substack. Find that at . That link is in the show notes & you can also find it in my bio @hardwaypod on Instagram. The #1 thing you can do to support this show is to subscribe to my substack and if you’d like me to write and drop pods more frequently, please consider becoming a paid subscriber. It takes a lot of time to produce these and your support helps make it happen. I’ll be dropping part 2 of this interview soon where Chase and I do a deep dive on life, bikes and family. After an extensive search for the perfect bike partner, I’m excited to announce that Lauf has joined the Choose the Hard Way family. Lauf makes the coolest road and gravel bikes known to humankind and for 2025 I’m riding the Uthlad all road bike and Seigla gravel bike with the Grit suspension fork. Find them @laufcycles on Instagram. Lauf is the Apple of bike design and they make elegant products that just work better than everything else. Follow my subtack and @hardwaypod on instagram to meet up with me at gravel events like Overland and to see what adventures I tackle on my Lauf bikes in 2025. Check them out at . Crypto curious? With over $1 trillion in transactions to date, is your trusted partner on your crypto journey. Create your free wallet and get up to 10% in annual rewards by putting your crypto to work. Go to to get started today, no experience required. This podcast is also brought to you by my best-in-class partners at Palm Tree Pod Co. They’re a full-service podcast studio with end-to-end services to help any brand, business or individual take a strategic approach and standout. Find them at Follow on Instagram to get a look behind the scenes at what goes into the Choose the Hard Way podcast and substack and more. /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/35903650

Harry Sweeny - Pro Cycling & High Performance Living 02/21/2025

Christopher Blevins - the World Champion & Olympian on Mindfulness + the Transformative Power of Community & Bikes 09/06/2024

Rewind: Olympic Gold Medalist Kristen Faulkner - The Power of Positive Risk Taking, Why She Walked Away from Her Dream Job & the Path to Pro Cycling Success 08/08/2024

Rewind: Olympic Gold Medalist Kristen Faulkner - The Power of Positive Risk Taking, Why She Walked Away from Her Dream Job & the Path to Pro Cycling Success Kristen Faulkner is an American pro cyclist who won the gold medal in the women’s cycling road race at the Paris Olympics in truly stunning fashion, surpassing two of the most dominant racers in the sport with a bold attack that left them looking at each other while she drilled it to victory. It’s one of my favorite bike races I’ve ever watched. If you want to know what it took for Kristen to get to her gold medal moment, this episode is for you. Remember in life and sport, everything changes. No risks, no champagne. This episode is a replay of my 2023 conversation with Kristen and Spencer Martin, my co-host on , America’s fastest growing independent pro cycling analysis podcast. My whole family loves watching Kristen race and my daughter is one of her biggest fans. After this episode originally aired, Kristen took time to send my daughter a video encouraging her to keep riding and to keep doing the art projects she loves. Trust me when I tell you that’s not something that many world-class athletes would take the time to do. Kristen did, because that’s the kind of human she is. When you reach out and lift people up, it makes a difference. This episode is brought to you by . I’ve found that when I get bad sleep, everything in my life is worse and when I get good sleep, everything in my life gets better--I’m a better parent, I’m a better partner to my wife, I’m more creative, I think more clearly, I’m more effective at work and I enjoy riding my bike more. The science to get great sleep is straightforward. But putting it into practice can be really hard. That’s why we built The Better Lab, the app that guides you to mindfully build science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. What works is what you get done consistently and The Better Lab helps you take simple steps every day to be more present, aware and conscious as you build one practice at a time to sleep better. Get the Better Lab app now for free in the Apple App Store and learn more at . Give it a try and DM me @hardwaypod and tell me what you think. I’d love to hear your feedback. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. Humans like you. Please take a moment to rate this show five stars wherever you listen to podcasts and share this episode with a pal. In This Episode: Kristen Faulkner , - - - - - - - - - - Andrew Vontz Subscribe: , , , Sign up for the Choose The Hard Way is a production /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/32492052

Cory Richards pt. 2 - the Legendary Alpinist & Nat Geo Photographer on his new book 'The Color of Everything' - Rising, Falling & Beginning Again 06/27/2024

Cory Richards pt. 2 - the Legendary Alpinist & Nat Geo Photographer on his new book 'The Color of Everything' - Rising, Falling & Beginning Again A student struggling with his practice once asked the zen master Shunryu Suzuki to boil down Buddhism into a single phrase. Suzuki thought for a moment, then he responded: everything changes. This is part two of my conversation with Cory Richards about his memoir, The Color of Everything. Cory is bipolar and at different moments in his life he has been famous, homeless, institutionalized and an addict. He has climbed Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen, he won the National Geographic Adventurer of the Year award and he has traveled the planet adventuring and shooting for Nat Geo. Then he started over as a writer. Healthy, sick, good, bad, rich, poor, famous, homeless. Everything changes. A great book is one you can’t put down that you miss when it’s over. is such a book and I highly recommend reading it. This episode is brought to you by The Better Lab. Good sleep amplifies health, wellness and performance. Getting good sleep can be hard and many people struggle to consistently take the actions that support solid sleep. That’s why I co-founded The Better Lab, the app that helps active people like you to mindfully build conscious, science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. It’s just what works to help you get great sleep and you can get started today at and the app is live in the . Check it out and send a DM to @hardwaypod to let me know what you think. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. The purpose of this podcast is not for you to envy, admire or imitate the stories people like Cory share here. This podcast is here to hopefully inspire and empower you to fully embrace being the writer of your own story. It’s a great one, you’re the author and you bring it into being every moment. Find Cory on Instagram and pre-order The Color of Everything . Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/31901167

Rewind: 2nd at the Unbound 100 Gravel Race 2014 with @vontz x @blakeotoday - from the Archives 05/30/2024

Rewind: 2nd at the Unbound 100 Gravel Race 2014 with @vontz x @blakeotoday - from the Archives Doing hard things with friends is fun and even when you lose, you win. In 2014 I took second at Unbound 100 and superstar creator and now BJJ black belt @blakeoftoday took third. This episode originally dropped in 2019. I skipped the weddings of several close friends and trained 20+ hours many weeks for months to prepare for this event. When we did the race and when we originally recorded this episode it kind bummed me out that I didn’t win the race in 2014 or in 2015 when I went back and got second again with a side of food poisoning that left me unable to hold down food for a week after the race. Now I’m just grateful for the memories I have of training for and competing in this brutal event with Blake and for everything that happened along the way. With Unbound coming up this weekend, I wanted to drop this episode again for anyone who is new to the show and anyone has an interest in Unbound. This may be difficult to imagine, but 2014 was a time when there were zero tubeless gravel tires on the market and I ran 50 psi in tubed Clement MSOs and lived. A lot has changed since then and a lot has changed since I created Choose the Hard Way. When I started this project in 2017, I thought the point was to share lessons learned at the limits of human experience. Over time I’ve realized people, including me, forget most of the specific details that they hear on podcasts--but they almost always remember how podcasts make them feel. And at their best, the stories we hear on great podcasts motivate and inspire us to take action and be more present in other areas of our lives. This episode is brought to you by The Better Lab. Sleep is the greatest performance enhancer on the planet and the science to improve sleep is straightforward. Putting it into action on your own can be challenging. That’s why I co-founded The Better Lab to help guide active people like you to mindfully build conscious, science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. We’re an early stage startup and right now the . You can find the link in the show notes. Check it out and as an early user, we want to hear your feedback to help us continually improve the product. Shoutout to Hard Way listeners Chris Scott, Jeffrey Nebolini, Shannon Jones and many others who have been using the app to get better sleep and sharing their feedback with us. Thank you! You can learn more at . /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/31538622

Joe Petrowski: Quitting Rocket Science to Be a Pro Cyclist in France 04/24/2024

Joe Petrowski: Quitting Rocket Science to Be a Pro Cyclist in France Joe Petrowski landed a great job as an aerospace engineer right out of college. Then he got the bike racing bug. People told him to stick with his demonstrably awesome, impressive and very high paying gig. Instead, he quit to go live in at times dismal conditions to be a pro cyclist, first in the UK then in France. And if you’re not familiar with domestic pro cycling in France, teams there are known for their extremely old school, hardcore and at times totalitarian approaches. Joe had some great times and also often wondered if he had made a huge mistake and what the hell he was doing. He never stepped up to the World Tour, the highest level of the sport. And years later, he thinks going for it as a pro cyclist is one of the best and most important decisions he ever made. Eventually he left pro cycling and went into computer science, high frequency trading and to what he does now, working on the decentralized web at polkadot. People who stop doing the thing people who are not them tell them they should do to go do the thing they know they have to do intrigue me. That’s Joe. Don’t forget, you’re the hero in your story, you are writing it every day, and when you hear the call to adventure, listen. It is after all, your story. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. This episode is brought to you by The Better Lab. Sleep is the greatest performance enhancer on the planet and the science to improve sleep is straightforward. Putting it into action on your own can be challenging. That’s why I co-founded The Better Lab to help active people like you mindfully build conscious, science-backed practices to sleep better that stick. It’s just what works to help you get great sleep and you can get started today at . I make this podcast available for free and all I ask is that you go to the show page for Choose the Hard Way on iTunes and Spotify and hit 5 stars. To be in touch, DM me @hardwaypod on Instagram or email . Find Joe at . Thanks to our sponsor Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/30961428

Cory Richards - Presence is the Real Summit - Beyond Everest & Life as a National Geographic Adventurer of the Year & Photographer 03/27/2024

Cory Richards - Presence is the Real Summit - Beyond Everest & Life as a National Geographic Adventurer of the Year & Photographer Charisma, fame, good looks, superhuman physical and artistic achievement. Some people seem to have done everything and to be everything you dream of becoming. And as Cory Richards shares in this interview, everything can be nothing and anything can be the opportunity for presence, mindfulness and connection to who and what matters most. Cory climbed Mount Everest without supplemental oxygen in 2016 and was the first and only American to climb one of the world’s 8,000 meter peaks in winter, where he almost died in an avalanche and took one of the most famous photos of his career that became the cover of the 125th anniversary issue of National Geographic. Cory has been a National Geographic Adventurer of the Year and National Geographic Photographer fellow. His memoir, The Color of Everything, out July 9th, tells the story of his journey with mental health and how it has shaped his life, his path as an adventurer and artist and his decision to walk away from climbing, photography and shed his former identities to move to LA and be a writer. Once I started reading The Color of Everything, I couldn’t put it down and since I finished it, I can’t stop thinking about it. It’s a profound, must-read book and I’m sure you’ll see it on many best of the year lists come December. (Pre-)order it now . I worked with Cory in support of his Everest expeditions in 2016 and 2017 and since I started this podcast in 2018, I’ve wanted to have him on the show. I’m glad it took six years of exchanging messages for this interview to happen, because now is the right time and I’m excited to share it with you. Find Cory on Instagram and at . Thanks to our sponsor Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/30541893

Heather Jackson: Gravel & Ultra Trail Running Pro - Positive Risks, Growth & the Power of Starting Something New 02/28/2024

Heather Jackson: Gravel & Ultra Trail Running Pro - Positive Risks, Growth & the Power of Starting Something New Heather Jackson has won six full Ironman triathlons, 16 Ironman 70.3 races, the Escape from Alcatraz triathlon and she also won the Wildflower triathlon four times. She played D1 hockey at Princeton where she was a two-time captain and was on the US National team for cycling track racing. In 2023, she left triathlon to be a pro gravel racer AND a pro ultra trail runner. In her first season she won the Belgian Waffle Ride San Diego and the Javelina 100 foot race. I mean, damn. Heather has an awesome YouTube channel and if you’re a fan, you know she has done a lot of media and podcast appearances. In this interview, we get into new material and talk about Heather’s mind game, why she continues to take positive risks and try new things and much more. Find Heather on YouTube and Instagram , find those links in the show notes. A big thank you to Michael Marckx and Heather’s husband Wattie for helping make this interview happen and to Heather for everything she graciously shares in this conversation. Choose the Hard Way is a podcast about how doing hard things is fun and builds stronger humans. If you haven’t done this already, now would be a great time to help me help you. To do that, just hit subscribe and rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this episode with someone you care about. To be in touch, DM me on Instagram. This episode is brought to you by Movemint. If you’ve ever registered for a bike ride, run or charity event like a walk-a-thon, you know the experience usually sucks. Movemint is a new events registration platform that makes event discovery, registration and management a better, more cost effective and delightful experience for event promoters and customers. It’s making a broken and bad experience so much better that I knew I had to get involved and that’s why I’m an advisor to the company. If you’re an event promoter, go to to learn more. Thanks to our sponsors: /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/30116733

Michael Marckx - Belgian Waffle Ride Founder 01/17/2024

Michael Marckx - Belgian Waffle Ride Founder Michael Marckx is the founder and CEO of the Belgian Waffle Ride, one of the biggest and most influential multi-surface, gravelish series in the world. He’s a prime mover behind what has become today’s booming gravel scene and wow, this guy has lived what would be 20 lives the average human. We talk everything that went into the birth of the BWR including Michael’s time as CEO of a publicly traded company, his other career as a professional musician, his other other career as a professional triathlete during the golden age of the sport when Kenny Souza had unrivaled hair and Mark Allen and Dave Scott were battling it out for the Ironman and Michael’s childhood in an environment where running marathons when you were 12 was normal. Most importantly, we talk about why you should pick something hard to do with friends and go do it. That’s what I did last fall when I did the BWR Kansas Wafer with the No Pressure No Diamonds crew and got a taste of the Belgian Waffle magic then swore I would never go back and am now going back. Choose the Hard Way is the show about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. Please help more people find this podcast. To do that, just hit subscribe and rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this episode with someone you care about. We are in year six of Choose the Hard Way and it’s going to be a big one with some amazing guests and the chance for us to spend some time together as a community at a few gatherings and live events. To make it all happen I’m open to mission-aligned sponsors I’d be proud to share with my audience directly supporting the show this season. If you or someone you know have a company that wants to reach the high-achieving, high-influence, highly networked people who listen to this show and do amazing things, then send a DM to @hardwaypod or email us at . I’m also ready to retire the Giant TCX cyclocross bike I’ve been using to race gravel since 2015 and I’m ready for a new ride. If you’re in the industry and work for a company that makes an amazing bike you’d like me to race and talk about this year, holler at me and let’s make it happen. Finally, I’m going to have big news to share some time in the next few episodes about the business I started that I’ve quietly been working on for the past 18 months. We are getting ready to publicly release our product and I want to give you all the opportunity to be among the first to get to try it. Go to choosethehardway.com to sign up for the newsletter and if there’s someone you think would make a great guest, DM or send an email to [email protected]. To learn more about BWR go to and you can find Michael gram’ing . /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/29525288

Joe Goettl: Gravel Pro Cyclist x YouTuber on Making it as a Privateer 12/21/2023

Kimo Seymour - Building the LifeTime Grand Prix + Endurance in Life, Business & Sport 12/08/2023

Kimo Seymour - Building the LifeTime Grand Prix + Endurance in Life, Business & Sport One day you wake up and a thing called the Life Time Grand Prix exists and two years later it’s all anyone who follows pro cycling in America can talk about. How did we get here? And what’s next? Today, we find out. Kimo Seymour is the Senior Vice President of Media and Events at Life Time and the creator of the Life Time Grand Prix. He’s also an endurance sports overachieve with 11 IRONMAN finishes and nine smoking fast times at the Leadville 100 mountain bike race to his credit. Life Time has transformed the level of competition in offroad racing, birthed an entirely new hybrid pro racing series that mixes disciplines in a way we’ve never seen before in pro cycling and has created a content and coverage flywheel that is turning heads. The Grand Prix brings together an exclusive group of professional cyclists who compete in a series of legendary and soon to be legendary mountain bike and gravel races. In the process, they’ve attracted top talent from across all cycling disciplines and created a vibe you won’t find anywhere else in pro cycling. Kimo and his team have been instrumental in making it happen and Alex Howes plays an unexpected and crucial role. We go deep. We go kiting. We talk sepsis, kiting and epic feats of endurance. It’s everything we’ve dreamed of and more. Kimo has been one of my most requested guests and I’m excited to share this interview with you. We’re getting close to 200 5-star ratings and whether you’re a long-time listener or a new one, please take a moment and help me bring you more awesome guests you want to hear. When you hit 5 stars, you help make it happen. Thank you. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how hard things build stronger humans who have more fun. I love hearing from you so if you want to let me know what you think of this episode or who you’d like to hear from next, DM me @hardwaypod. To learn more about the Life Time Grand Prix, go to . Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/28983733

Alexis Skarda - Pro Cyclist, National Champion, Music Producer + DJ 11/22/2023

Drew Dillman & Dylan Johnson - Gravel Racing 90210 -- The Lifetime Grand Prix, BWR and Beyond 11/08/2023

Joe De Sena Spartan Race Founder & CEO - Exclusive: Near Death Wipeouts in Life & Business 10/25/2023

@tristantakephoto on Racing 800 Miles Across Morocco’s Atlas Mountains & Selling Everything to Start the Life He Wanted 10/04/2023

@tristantakephoto on Racing 800 Miles Across Morocco’s Atlas Mountains & Selling Everything to Start the Life He Wanted Tristan Cardew, aka @tristantakephoto, sold everything and moved from Sydney, Australia to Girona, Spain to build a life that revolved around cycling and visual storytelling. Five years later, he’s racing gravel and road at a high level and has built the creative career he dreamed about making happen. His , TristanTakeVideo, has more than three million views and is built around training with Tour de France stage winners, interviewing the world’s best riders and going behind the scenes with teams at the top level of the sport. Tristan is also a standout documentary filmmaker and when I saw his about racing the Atlas Mountain Race, one of the toughest bikepacking tests on the planet, I knew I had to have him on Choose the Hard Way. The race is more than 800 miles long with 65,000 feet of climbing across remote and absolutely brutal terrain. Completing it is a feat. Making a compelling self-shot documentary while racing it is a next-level achievement. I was excited to have this chance to talk to Tristan about his path as a creative, the story behind his Atlas Race doc, explore the question of how much is enough, and to get a preview of his upcoming documentary about racing the 466-mile Badlands gravel race in Spain. Find Tristan on Instagram @tristantakephoto and check out his YouTube channel, . Choose the Hard Way is a podcast about how doing hard things is fun and builds stronger humans. If you haven’t done this already, now would be a great time to help me help you. To do that, just hit subscribe and rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this episode with someone you care about. Go to choosethehardway.com to sign up for the newsletter and shoot me a DM @hardwaypod or send an email to to let me know what you dig in this conversation with Tristan. I love hearing from you and appreciate everyone who has reached out, keep it coming! Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz Subscribe: , , , /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/28218167

#100 - Hard Things Build Stronger Humans Who Have More Fun - Andrew Vontz x @Blakeoftoday 09/27/2023

#100 - Hard Things Build Stronger Humans Who Have More Fun - Andrew Vontz x @Blakeoftoday Six years ago, I launched Choose the Hard Way to inspire more people to embrace the idea that doing hard things builds stronger humans who have more fun. My guests are among the very best in the world at what they do and I’ve been lucky that they’ve graciously shared their stories here. To celebrate 100 episodes, I’m doing something different and sharing more of my story--a story about a friendship that has pushed me to do hard things for 15 years and counting. This podcast isn’t about hacks, tricks and shortcuts. It’s about the powerful things that happen when you choose the hard way--and I hope my guest’s stories inspire you to go do hard things with people you love and have some fun. That’s the best part of life and it’s available to everyone willing to answer the call to adventure. I have a request: please pick something challenging to do, invite a friend to do it with you and leave a comment or shoot a DM to @hardwaypod on social and tell me how it went. Joining me today is In the past year, Blake has become one of the most popular storytellers on Instagram because of his distinctive storytelling style focused on family, fatherhood and jiu-jitsu. He’s the host of the Grappling with Fatherhood podcast, the author of the Blakeoftoday substack and one of the only humans I know who organically grew his Instagram following from less than a thousand followers to nearly 200k followers in a year. Blake has joined me on this podcast in the past to deconstruct our path to podium finishes at the gravel race now known as the Unbound 100 in 2014 and 2015. Today, we’re talking about how our chance meeting while volunteering at a shelter for unhoused people in downtown Los Angeles led us to start doing workouts at a park in Silverlake that were brutal and would have been total nonsense if they hadn’t been so much fun--and how that led to friendship, rivalry and both of us pushing each other to go bigger and bigger. And so can you. Choose the Hard Way is the podcast about how doing hard things builds stronger humans who have more fun. Please help more people find this podcast. To do that, just hit subscribe and rate the show five stars on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and share this episode with a friend. We are 100 episodes deep and I really appreciate all of your support. Go to choosethehardway.com to sign up for the newsletter and if there’s someone you think would make a great guest, DM @hardwaypod. Choose The Hard Way is a Big Truck Production. Anthony Palmer at Palm Tree Pod Co is the producer and editor and Emily Miles is head of digital and marketing. Hekla Projects founder Jeffrey Nebolini is the world-renowned designer behind our brand identity and the Choose the Hard Way logo. The content for this show is created by @vontz. /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/28153787

Pete Stetina: the OG Gravel Pro on Racing while Parenting, Where Gravel is Headed & Exiting the World Tour to Enter a Van 09/13/2023

Vince Murdock: Team Alpha Male MMA fighter on Brain Surgery, The Ultimate Fighter & Building an Inclusive Cycling Community 09/06/2023

Vince Murdock: Team Alpha Male MMA fighter on Brain Surgery, The Ultimate Fighter & Building an Inclusive Cycling Community Vince Murdock is a professional mixed martial arts fighter who came up from difficult circumstances and worked his entire life to get into the UFC. When he finally got the call, a pre-fight brain scan showed he had Moyamoya disease and a life-threatening arterial blockage. Following brain surgery that involved removing a quarter of his skull, Vince’s perspective on life radically shifted. He became a father, got into cycling to rehab from surgery and formed an inclusive community, the Enjoy Cycling Club, to counter the elitism and exclusion that’s commonplace in competitive cycling. Vince trains at Team Alpha Male under the supervision of multiple former UFC title belt holders and champions including Cody No Love Gabrandt and team founder and owner The California Kid, Urijah Faber. Vince has a unique perspective on life and deep wisdom from the hardships he has persevered through both before and after his surgery. He is a remarkable human and I am deeply grateful for what he shares in this interview. It really moved me. I’m dedicating this episode to my good friend Aaron Burby and his friends and family. Aaron suddenly died from complications related to undiagnosed Moyamoya disease in 2020. He has been with me every day since then and he always will be. Like Vince, Aaron made the people around him feel loved and special, he was a gifted community builder, went full gas after his goals in life and expected the people he loved to give everything to what they valued. Special thanks to past Choose the Hard Way guest Derek Teel from Dialed Health for connecting me to Vince. This is a special conversation and I’m grateful to be able to share it with you all. Vince Murdock Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz Subscribe: , , , /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/27952527

Drew Dillman: Pro Cyclist, Creator, Entrepreneur & Soon to Be Gravel Racing Icon 08/30/2023

Iz King: From Wall Street to Pro Athlete & Creating a Life and Career on an Unmarked Course 08/23/2023

Michelle “MACE” Curran: ex USAF Thunderbird Lead Soloist, F16 Fighter Pilot, Endurance Athlete & Entrepreneur 08/16/2023

Michelle “MACE” Curran: ex USAF Thunderbird Lead Soloist, F16 Fighter Pilot, Endurance Athlete & Entrepreneur Michelle Curran, call sign MACE, spent three years flying in the United States Air Force Thunderbirds aerial demonstration team and was the lead soloist for two of those years flying on the outer left wing of the delta formation. Michelle was the fifth woman ever to be a member of the Thunderbirds and while deployed as a fighter pilot in Afghanistan in 2016, she acquired 163 combat hours. When Michelle left the Thunderbirds in 2021 she continued to pursue her passion for inspiring and motivating people in a slightly different format. Today she’s a keynote speaker and the author of the children’s book "Upside Down Dreams" and a forthcoming biography. Michelle has done many fantastic podcast appearances about leadership and lessons learned from her time in combat and with the Thunderbirds. In this interview, we go deep on new topics including risk management, vulnerability, the power of extraordinary effort, why you must become an expert learner to become the very best at anything, and the role mountaineering, running and strength training played in helping Michelle prepare for and heal from the physical demands of pulling 9 G’s while on the road 240 days a year with the Thunderbirds and more. My uncles used to take me to the airshow at Richards Gebauer air base outside Kansas City every summer when I was a kid and watching the United States Air Force Thunderbirds was one of the most truly awe inspiring things I have ever experienced. This one is extra special for me and I’m really excited to share it with you. Special thank you to former Choose the Hard Way guest Ben Davis, the author, former Navy SEAL and VOAG executive director for connecting me to Michelle, very much appreciated. You can catch my interview with Ben in the archives. You can learn more about Michelle at or on Instagram Michelle Curran | Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz Subscribe: , , , /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/27766845

Derek Teel: Dialed Health Founder & former Pro Downhill & Enduro MTB Racer on Building Strength & Finding Balance in Sport, Life & Business 08/09/2023

Pro Cyclist Kerry Werner on the Rise of Gravel, the Contraction of Cross, the Lifetime Grand Prix & Creator Life 08/02/2023

Unbound XL Winner Kristen Legan + Gravel Legend & Author Nick Legan 07/26/2023

Unbound XL Winner Kristen Legan + Gravel Legend & Author Nick Legan Unbound XL winner Kristen Legan & Gravel legend Nick Legan on racing, adventure, bikepacking and teamwork in sport, life and marriage as lived at Unbound Gravel, Ride the Divide, TransIowa and more. The inside line on the months of prep, recon and planning that went into Unbound XL, why Kristen and Nick like to go deep, why they choose the hard way and recommend that you do, too. Kristen Legan won the 350-mile, 2023 Unbound XL gravel race in 26 hours and six minutes, beating her closest competitor by nearly two full hours. She modestly describes herself as a sometimes-pro racer who competes in gravel and endurance mountain bike races with a healthy heaping of bikepacking in the mix. She also leads communications for Shimano North America and Mosaic cycles and works with endurance athletes of all kidneys through her coaching company, Rambleur. Nick Legan has worked as WorldTour and Olympic mechanic, a tech editor and now leads gravel marketing for Shimano. He’s completed the Tour Divide, Trans Iowa, Unbound XL and Unbound 200 five times. He’s also the author of “Gravel Cycling: The Complete Guide to Gravel Racing and Adventure Bikepacking.” If memory serves me correctly, the first time I did the Unbound 100 back in 2013, Nick and Kristen were there. You can watch a chunk of Kristen’s Unbound XL victory in the Vegan Cyclist’s video about the event, he closely trailed her for much of the race before he tapped out and she went on to win. Nick has graciously helped me with a decade’s-worth of tech questions about my gear for which I’m deeply grateful and I’m excited to bring this conversation to you today where we cover everything about Kristen and Nick’s meticulous preparation, planning and teamwork to put Kristen in the best possible position to execute to the best of her ability on race day at Unbound XL and dive into many of their other adventures and how Kristen is working with athletes through her coaching company. Find Kristen on social and learn more about her coaching practice at and find Nick and on bookshelves everywhere if bookshelves still exist, otherwise find him on In This Episode: Kristen Legan Nick Legan Watch on Sign up for the - - - - - - - - - - Choose The Hard Way | Andrew Vontz Subscribe: , , , /episode/index/show/choosethehardway/id/27565242

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